| 00:08.45 | *** join/#devuan thaQuestion (~chat@i59F7C6C2.versanet.de) |
| 00:14.53 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 00:30.17 | *** join/#devuan GoatAvenger (~GoatAveng@unaffiliated/goatavenger) |
| 01:02.26 | *** join/#devuan ddg (~ddg@unaffiliated/ddg) |
| 01:06.54 | *** join/#devuan none_asking (~chat@i59F77078.versanet.de) |
| 01:09.50 | *** join/#devuan hgunth (~hgunth@gateway/tor-sasl/hgunth) |
| 01:14.35 | *** join/#devuan ack (ack@alderaan.mingbai.org) |
| 01:21.25 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 01:21.25 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 01:33.31 | *** join/#devuan theLambda (~theLambda@i577BCD6F.versanet.de) |
| 02:10.41 | *** join/#devuan sokan (~Henry@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 02:24.10 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@200116b800195000004109fffe40d1e1.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 02:28.20 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 02:36.37 | *** part/#devuan ThurahT (~ThurahT@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) |
| 02:37.24 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-2-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:37.34 | *** join/#devuan ThurahT (~ThurahT@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) |
| 02:41.13 | *** join/#devuan sebastian (~hacker@2a03:4000:6:8177:2::1) |
| 02:53.14 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@p2E5B2C24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:02.35 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 03:43.05 | *** join/#devuan blinkdog (~blinkdog@devuan/developer/blinkdog) |
| 04:02.27 | *** join/#devuan still_asking (~chat@i577B7080.versanet.de) |
| 04:31.18 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 04:32.00 | *** join/#devuan VH (47ffb0b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.255.176.182) |
| 04:32.32 | VH | Hello |
| 04:33.34 | VH | I am new in devuan and have a question about running Graphical application as a superuser |
| 04:33.55 | VH | I know that devuan does not use sudo, but uses root account instead. |
| 04:34.25 | *** join/#devuan mhc (~Error0@203-59-177-66.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:35.32 | VH | However, I am so used to using ubuntu downstream. And since I am weary of enabling root account (i don't want to damage system by accident) I do not want to enable root account |
| 04:36.19 | VH | So disabled root account while installing devuan by NOT entering root password. |
| 04:36.42 | VH | However this seems to be causing trouble when try to run graphic app with sudo |
| 04:37.00 | VH | graphic app such as bleachbit and gufw |
| 04:37.14 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-2-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:37.23 | VH | when I try to run bleachbit, it says.... let me see |
| 04:37.24 | blinkdog | which version of Devuan are you using VH? |
| 04:38.02 | VH | Devuan jessie |
| 04:38.20 | VH | No protocol specified /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py:57: GtkWarning: could not open display warnings.warn(str(e), _gtk.Warning) Could not open X display |
| 04:38.46 | VH | that's what it says when I try $sudo bleachbit |
| 04:38.57 | VH | I tried gksu as well, no luck |
| 04:41.00 | VH | When I do $gksu bleachbit, and enter password in graphic interface, it keep saying I entered wrong password and enter it again. |
| 04:41.15 | VH | I guess it's asking root password, but I don't have any to begin with |
| 04:41.40 | VH | does anyone have suggestion in working around this? |
| 04:42.54 | blinkdog | I'm looking on the dev1galaxy forum for posts about xserver-xorg-legacy but they are talking about Ascii not Jessie |
| 04:43.08 | blinkdog | Let me fire up a VM and see if I can reproduce |
| 04:43.24 | VH | thanks |
| 04:50.29 | *** join/#devuan metxn (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 04:55.46 | golinux | VM don't you have to add yourself to the sudoers file and group? |
| 04:56.36 | golinux | I haven't used sudo for over a decade so a little fuzzy on the details. |
| 04:56.56 | golinux | Oops VH ^^^ Sorry old eyes. |
| 04:57.14 | blinkdog | I can start gufw but of course clicking Unlock it wants the root password |
| 04:58.30 | VH | old eyes? |
| 04:58.49 | VH | unlock it ..... |
| 04:58.53 | VH | let me see again |
| 05:00.11 | VH | I cannot. I get same result "incorrect password" when I do $gksu bleachbit |
| 05:00.32 | VH | I uninstalled gufw so let me install it and run it |
| 05:01.48 | VH | it gives me erro message when I do $sudo gufw |
| 05:02.09 | VH | (gufw.py:8533): Gtk-CRITICAL **: _gtk_css_lookup_resolve: assertion 'GTK_IS_STYLE_PROVIDER_PRIVATE (provider)' failed Segmentation fault |
| 05:02.36 | VH | (gufw.py:8533): Gtk-CRITICAL **: _gtk_settings_get_style_cascade: asertion 'GTK_IS_SETTINGS (settings)' failed |
| 05:02.51 | blinkdog | try this: gksu --sudo-mode gufw |
| 05:03.53 | VH | now that started gufw, but everything is greyed out = inactive |
| 05:04.04 | VH | everything in gufw that is. |
| 05:04.28 | golinux | VH: Looked like VM to me. |
| 05:04.45 | golinux | An yes, an old person ahs old eyes. |
| 05:05.08 | VH | sorry for my ignorance but when you say vm does it mean virtual machine? |
| 05:07.41 | blinkdog | VH: She's saying when she first read your name, she mistook it as "VM" because she's an old person who has old eyes |
| 05:08.01 | VH | oh ok. |
| 05:08.10 | blinkdog | When I'm saying VM yes, I do mean Virtual Machine, because I'm running a fresh Jessie locally in a VM to test :-) |
| 05:08.46 | VH | yes you blinkdog do, but I didn't know what golinux meant :) |
| 05:10.22 | *** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 05:13.22 | VH | would you or anyone recommend that I enable root account at this point? |
| 05:14.44 | VH | only thing I am weary is, I am not used to root. See, I know I can go from $ to #, by using sudo su -, but I don't even exactly know what that command means |
| 05:17.00 | blinkdog | how do you have your /etc/sudoers configured? what line do you have to give yourself sudo privs? |
| 05:18.36 | VH | let me see |
| 05:20.17 | VH | Defaults env_reset |
| 05:20.25 | VH | Defaults mail_badpass x |
| 05:20.32 | VH | x is not there btw |
| 05:20.36 | VH | Defaults secure_path="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin" |
| 05:20.48 | VH | root ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL |
| 05:20.54 | VH | %sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL |
| 05:22.46 | VH | Do I have to put my username in both root and sudo? |
| 05:22.50 | VH | instead of all? |
| 05:22.52 | blinkdog | okay, and your user is part of the sudo group? |
| 05:23.31 | blinkdog | if you type groups one of them is sudo ? |
| 05:23.43 | VH | I suppose? that is why I can run sudo command with no problem except when I try to run sudo in graphical environment |
| 05:24.26 | VH | I can run any command with sudo but if command result something in graphical environment, that's when it gives me trouble. |
| 05:25.40 | VH | yes, when I type groups in $groups my name is in one of them |
| 05:26.42 | blinkdog | okay, just working to make my configuration match yours |
| 05:26.43 | VH | I didn't know what you mean by type groups.. sorry |
| 05:26.54 | VH | meant |
| 05:27.28 | VH | sorry for my english |
| 05:27.47 | VH | thanks |
| 05:27.49 | blinkdog | No worries, your English is just fine :-) |
| 05:28.00 | VH | thanks |
| 05:28.27 | blinkdog | I added myself to the group sudo and did Log Out so I could re-login with the new permissions |
| 05:28.39 | blinkdog | Once I did that, I was able to do gksu --sudo-mode gufw |
| 05:28.46 | blinkdog | I typed my password, the application came up |
| 05:29.02 | blinkdog | When I clicked "Unlock", it just changed into unlocked mode |
| 05:29.07 | blinkdog | It didn't prompt me for a password, it just worked |
| 05:29.43 | blinkdog | I have a root account with a password, so I think my next step is to disable that and see if my command still works |
| 05:30.12 | VH | thanks |
| 05:31.28 | VH | gksu --sudo-mode gufw still gives me all greyed out gufw |
| 05:37.18 | *** join/#devuan GoatAvenger (~GoatAveng@unaffiliated/goatavenger) |
| 05:39.57 | blinkdog | flood time... :-) |
| 05:39.58 | blinkdog | <blinkdog> I used sudo passwd -l root to disable the root account, and I was able to repeat with gksu --sudo-mode |
| 05:39.59 | blinkdog | <blinkdog> Let me re-log again just to make sure |
| 05:39.59 | blinkdog | <blinkdog> how is your root account disabled? |
| 05:39.59 | blinkdog | <blinkdog> gksu --sudo-mode gufw works for me, but it doesn't work on your system? |
| 05:42.30 | blinkdog | tells Sigyn that she is now authorized to be As Loyal As A Puppy |
| 05:42.44 | VH | My root password is disabled from the beginning by not entering a password during the devuan installation process |
| 05:43.31 | VH | It said that if I don't enter root password, I will be using sudo for root privilages, so I thought that was fine. |
| 05:44.22 | VH | never thought it would create this problem |
| 05:44.38 | blinkdog | I'm not sure if it is the problem yet though |
| 05:44.55 | blinkdog | gufw is all greyed out, do you get the Unlock button down in the corner? |
| 05:45.08 | VH | let me see |
| 05:45.49 | VH | holy... how could I not see before |
| 05:46.00 | VH | I must be sleepy |
| 05:46.38 | VH | Goodness bleachbit runs with gksu --sudo-mode gufw |
| 05:46.46 | VH | I mean gksu --sudo-mode bleachbit |
| 05:46.58 | VH | Duh. I feel so dumb :) |
| 05:47.06 | VH | huhuhuh |
| 05:47.22 | blinkdog | Yay! We win! |
| 05:47.24 | blinkdog | :-) |
| 05:47.57 | VH | Thanks. You are my hero. I was almost on the verge of reinstalling devuan |
| 05:48.42 | blinkdog | I'm glad I could help! |
| 05:48.44 | VH | I guess I just have to study sudo command more thoroughly |
| 05:51.16 | VH | blinkdog> If I may ask, are you a deuvan developer |
| 05:52.09 | golinux | Yes he is |
| 05:52.10 | blinkdog | Yes, I am. :-) |
| 05:52.16 | VH | I see. |
| 05:52.50 | VH | If I make a donation to devuan, would you feel better / happier / good? |
| 05:53.10 | VH | I already made a donation, but I can again - although in small amount |
| 05:53.37 | golinux | Would YOU feel better if you made a donation. That is the question . . . |
| 05:53.42 | golinux | If you' |
| 05:53.47 | VH | ok |
| 05:53.48 | golinux | re short no worries. |
| 05:53.53 | VH | I see |
| 05:54.05 | golinux | We are managing OK |
| 05:54.31 | blinkdog | I agree with golinux. You can, but DON'T feel obligated. We're happy to help. |
| 05:54.51 | VH | well, If I do, I am not gonna tonight because I am not connecting through tor |
| 05:55.05 | blinkdog | And thank you for the previous donation! I myself have never donated yet, so maybe *I* should be the one to make the donation! :-) |
| 05:55.10 | golinux | If you have a good experience with Devuan, spread the word! |
| 05:55.23 | VH | although I think they can track me anyhow or whatever |
| 05:55.32 | VH | yes I will. |
| 05:55.34 | VH | thanks |
| 05:55.41 | VH | goodnight |
| 05:55.47 | golinux | Be happy! |
| 05:55.51 | blinkdog | o/ |
| 06:18.45 | *** join/#devuan skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) |
| 06:33.00 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 06:36.39 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn (UNKNOWN@p5797D9DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:51.26 | *** join/#devuan xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 06:57.57 | Criggie | I've been talking it up at work. Surprisingly theres more interest from centos users than debian users. |
| 07:00.17 | metxn | bloody centos |
| 07:22.36 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-155.home.otenet.gr) |
| 07:28.07 | *** join/#devuan nrx (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 07:30.22 | *** join/#devuan metax (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 07:39.09 | mhc_ | I havnt tried Devuan yet, just waiting to src a box to put in in. I have been using debian as i like the community behind it, and I like the idea behind devuan as well. |
| 07:40.09 | mhc_ | and its encouraging to see that the ppl behind are devuan are passionate for its purpose also |
| 08:00.46 | *** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@131.170-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:04.52 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.44.100) |
| 08:10.20 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 08:19.21 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-46-135.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 08:19.31 | *** join/#devuan metax (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 08:51.43 | *** join/#devuan metxn (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 09:01.51 | *** join/#devuan lru (~lru@digon.foursquare.net) |
| 09:26.56 | *** join/#devuan sokan (~Henry@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 09:31.48 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 09:37.15 | *** join/#devuan clemens3 (~clemens@80-218-38-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:47.53 | *** join/#devuan detha (~detha@unaffiliated/detha) |
| 09:54.43 | *** join/#devuan thijso (~thijs@109-46-132-5.ftth.glasoperator.nl) |
| 10:04.36 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 10:06.44 | *** join/#devuan konsolebox (~konsolebo@112.198.76.160) |
| 10:11.55 | *** join/#devuan mhc (~Error0@203-59-177-66.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:11.58 | *** join/#devuan mhc- (~Error0@203-59-177-66.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:16.31 | *** join/#devuan Ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 10:22.37 | *** join/#devuan nmollerup (~nmo@212.237.181.53) |
| 10:26.24 | *** join/#devuan markong (~marco@199.19.94.24) |
| 10:42.28 | *** join/#devuan bluemarlin (~bluemarli@unaffiliated/bluemarlin) |
| 10:42.48 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@185.128.40.162) |
| 10:42.56 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~ruse@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 10:43.42 | _abc_ | fsmithred: Hello? Who prepped the jessie amd64 image please? I wrote it to a usb stick, and later analyzed it with fdisk to add a 3rd partition for data in the free space. |
| 10:44.10 | _abc_ | The fdisk shows Id for part1 (devuan hybrid) = 0, this should be 0xAF HPFS/NTFS? |
| 10:44.26 | fsmithred | _abc_, I made the desktop-live images |
| 10:44.36 | _abc_ | Also sdb1 and sdb2 are overlapping apparently? I'll post what I got, just a sec. |
| 10:44.50 | fsmithred | overlapping? That's odd. |
| 10:46.53 | _abc_ | http://188.27.65.68:8881/mypaste/b6a0011b9de787f9c615 |
| 10:47.01 | _abc_ | The # comments explain what I found. |
| 10:47.08 | _abc_ | Also see sdb2 is "within" sdb1 |
| 10:47.28 | _abc_ | This is the installer not the desktop. |
| 10:48.23 | *** join/#devuan eliasr (uid27497@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ptmrgyygnjvsvqek) |
| 10:48.34 | fsmithred | installer iso, not live iso? |
| 10:48.41 | _abc_ | installer, dvd image |
| 10:48.52 | fsmithred | ah, ok. I don't know how those are made. |
| 10:49.19 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn_ (UNKNOWN@p5797D96C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:49.40 | _abc_ | fsmithred: on your images, is that okay? |
| 10:49.57 | _abc_ | The partition Id? And overlapping/etc issues? |
| 10:50.32 | fsmithred | I think the overlapping issue is ok, but I'm pretty sure it's not HPFS/NTFS |
| 10:51.18 | fsmithred | I think I know what needs to be changed to do that, though. It's in the xorriso command that makes the iso file. |
| 10:52.29 | _abc_ | The i386 jessie live image is okay |
| 10:52.50 | _abc_ | fsmithred: well it has to be something other than Id 0 because Id 0 means unused |
| 10:53.07 | _abc_ | And unused means the partition creator makes a "data" partition right on top of it when asked to do defaults. |
| 10:54.09 | _abc_ | On your i386 jessie live the id of the devuan partition is 0x17 hidden HPFS/NTFS |
| 10:54.19 | fsmithred | I never make extra partitions on a usb that was imaged with isohybrid |
| 10:54.27 | _abc_ | fsmithred: Oh, I do, works fine |
| 10:54.51 | _abc_ | fsmithred: remember we talked about putting a possibly crypted user data partition auto mounted on boot if asked so? |
| 10:55.08 | _abc_ | I have not automated the process yet, but you get the idea, I think |
| 10:56.06 | fsmithred | I do an encrypted data partition on my live-usb, but not after imaging isohybrid with dd |
| 10:56.25 | _abc_ | Then when? |
| 10:56.42 | fsmithred | fat32 first partition that can hold multiple live systems |
| 10:56.49 | fsmithred | syslinux bootloader |
| 10:57.09 | _abc_ | And the data partition is where then? Is it shared between the live images? |
| 10:57.10 | fsmithred | or grub for uefi |
| 10:57.16 | fsmithred | another partition |
| 10:57.27 | fsmithred | or a loopback file on another partition |
| 10:57.29 | _abc_ | But is it shared/compatible with several live fs's? |
| 10:57.39 | _abc_ | Or does each have it's own? |
| 10:57.40 | fsmithred | then boot with 'persistence' |
| 10:57.51 | _abc_ | fsmithred: Is that a cli option? |
| 10:57.53 | fsmithred | can do it either way, I think |
| 10:58.02 | fsmithred | yes, a live-boot option |
| 10:58.55 | fsmithred | but if you want to have an installer iso on that live usb, it gets a little tricky |
| 10:59.31 | fsmithred | I'm not even certain if it works. I think the installer fails to find the CD |
| 10:59.38 | _abc_ | I have either an installer or a live boot on a usb stick, never both, so far. |
| 11:00.07 | fsmithred | well, you can only have one live system on there, right? |
| 11:00.11 | _abc_ | fsmithred: what image would boot on a n4200 celeron cpu? intel64? |
| 11:00.27 | fsmithred | I don't know |
| 11:00.29 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I think you can have as many as you like, presuming the boot loader can deal with it? |
| 11:00.44 | fsmithred | how do you put the iso on the stick? |
| 11:00.47 | _abc_ | dd |
| 11:01.02 | fsmithred | so, one at a time |
| 11:01.10 | _abc_ | Oh you mean when there are several? Yes, but I have not tried that way yet |
| 11:01.16 | _abc_ | Yes, one at a time |
| 11:01.33 | _abc_ | I need to work much more on this but I can't touch my system now, it is busy used for other tasks |
| 11:01.46 | _abc_ | Will take 2 weeks or longer till I get to it. |
| 11:02.09 | fsmithred | cat /proc/cpuinfo should tell you if it's 32 or 64 |
| 11:02.18 | fsmithred | I think |
| 11:02.21 | _abc_ | Needs to boot first eh :) |
| 11:02.35 | _abc_ | It's 64 per intel, I asked which devuan version would go on it... |
| 11:03.25 | fsmithred | if the cpu is 64, then it can run either. |
| 11:03.43 | fsmithred | if the motherboard is uefi, then you'll need the amd64 iso |
| 11:04.12 | fsmithred | at least for the first installed system. |
| 11:04.31 | fsmithred | you could boot 32-bit systems from the first system's bootloader |
| 11:05.17 | fsmithred | and actually, I think the i386 installer isos can do uefi, but the live isos aren't set up for that. |
| 11:05.55 | _abc_ | I noticed that. |
| 11:20.56 | *** join/#devuan DarkUranium (~DarkUrani@77.38.34.248) |
| 11:21.40 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 11:35.08 | fsmithred | _abc_, debian isos are the same way - the efi partition is contained within the main partition, and the Id on the main partition is 0 |
| 11:36.24 | _abc_ | Hm. Okay, so that was ported as is, with no changes. |
| 11:36.44 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-46-135.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 11:37.27 | _abc_ | imo leaving the Id on 0 is dangerous, since any partitioning tool will assume it is unused and happily overwrite it on a click. |
| 11:37.38 | _abc_ | Is it necessary to have it with Id 0 for some technical reason? |
| 11:37.47 | fsmithred | I don't know |
| 11:38.04 | _abc_ | I set it to 0x17 which is hidden and should be left alone by partition managers |
| 11:38.32 | fsmithred | pretty sure there's a switch for HPFS/NTFS that can be added to the xorriso command. i can try that before I make the official ascii isos |
| 11:39.51 | _abc_ | Well It's more interesting to set it to 0x17 and try to boot under uefi or whatever, I assume it makes no difference. It makes none for BIOS boot. |
| 11:51.14 | _abc_ | fsmithred: do you have a link to a howto cncerning live data partition, encrypted or not, relevant to jessie live as it is now? |
| 11:51.31 | _abc_ | I mean one which you know to work, since you said something like that, I think, above? |
| 11:52.15 | fsmithred | the readme for refracta2usb has some good info, I'll get the link |
| 11:52.32 | _abc_ | I found several links, I would like the one which you know to work. |
| 11:53.28 | fsmithred | http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/docs/readme.refracta2usb.txt |
| 11:53.45 | fsmithred | that's what I use (and maintain) |
| 11:53.54 | _abc_ | Oh, perfect. Thanks, reading. |
| 11:54.42 | fsmithred | _abc_, https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/tools/refracta2usb-2.3.6.deb/download |
| 11:55.14 | fsmithred | remove the /download at the end if you wget it |
| 11:55.28 | *** join/#devuan _william_ (~william@LFbn-1-12394-216.w90-91.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:00.13 | _abc_ | Got it, thanks |
| 12:01.25 | fsmithred | warning: last time I tried to make a live-usb from a running live-usb, it got the boot menu entries wrong. Paths needed correction. |
| 12:02.03 | _abc_ | That's ok, I can handle it, I will not use it directly right now, just read through it. |
| 12:02.07 | fsmithred | but making one from iso file works |
| 12:02.36 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I see. |
| 12:03.10 | _abc_ | Where are the default live jessie devuan boot options (grub / isolinux / syslinux) for the kernel listed please? |
| 12:03.16 | _abc_ | Is the file online somewhere? |
| 12:04.34 | _abc_ | fsmithred: see what happens with gparted etc when partition Id is 0, exaple https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2017/06/msg00070.html |
| 12:05.00 | fsmithred | yeah, gparted does not like the isohybrid |
| 12:05.24 | _abc_ | it does not like the Id 0 |
| 12:08.23 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.230.94.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 12:08.53 | _abc_ | fsmithred: is there any advantage to setting a data partition on an usb stick to ext4 vs ext2? Other than journal dangers? |
| 12:09.21 | fsmithred | no, I sometimes use ext4 |
| 12:09.29 | fsmithred | you'll just get more writes |
| 12:09.39 | _abc_ | I prefer ext2 usually. With noatime. |
| 12:09.42 | fsmithred | i.e. it will use more... |
| 12:09.45 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 12:09.49 | _abc_ | More writes from ext4 right? |
| 12:10.00 | fsmithred | yes, writes to journal |
| 12:10.06 | enyc | i just would'nt have faulty expectations of cheapo usb-sticks, use them with writeheavy workloads etc ec |
| 12:10.12 | _abc_ | reading https://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/live-manual/stable/manual/html/live-manual.en.html#556 which is quite on topic for what I asked |
| 12:10.43 | fsmithred | yes, that is the primary reference for all this stuff |
| 12:11.23 | enyc | ALSO one annoyance I've had with ext4 is updated mke2fs defaults for 64bit and metadata_csum (or something ilke that) which make it incompatible with some systems / older linux kernel versions. |
| 12:12.22 | fsmithred | is there a mke2fs option for such cases? |
| 12:12.54 | _abc_ | hm? |
| 12:13.05 | _abc_ | fsmithred: for which cases? And option to what? |
| 12:13.20 | fsmithred | for running mke2fs on older system |
| 12:13.25 | _abc_ | And what enyc said, I need to stay compatible with 10yo systems |
| 12:13.49 | _abc_ | Well I just run mke2fs on the data partition. With out options for ext3 or ext4 |
| 12:13.56 | fsmithred | I'm on a 13yo system here |
| 12:14.20 | _abc_ | Mine has a cpu made in 2006 and I explained about the frankenstein nature of it some other time. |
| 12:14.30 | _abc_ | Suffice to say I'm on kde 3... |
| 12:14.49 | _abc_ | On the plus side, I'm meltdown and spectre safe! |
| 12:15.27 | *** join/#devuan _william_ (~william@LFbn-1-12394-216.w90-91.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:16.16 | _abc_ | Hmm so to add modules to a persistence based system, which requires patching in files into /lib, one needs the /union option? |
| 12:16.46 | fsmithred | what are you trying to do? |
| 12:17.10 | fsmithred | oh, in persistence.conf, yeah |
| 12:17.14 | _abc_ | Hmm? I may have to add some custom modules to the live system with persistence some time. I'll know in a week depending on what and how I install. |
| 12:17.45 | _abc_ | Still reading the live-manual, need to re-read it a few times to be sure. Memory items heh. |
| 12:17.46 | fsmithred | if you set up full persistence, you can install packages |
| 12:18.20 | _abc_ | I know. I will probably mix union with /home peristence, to get separate system and home persistence areas |
| 12:18.37 | fsmithred | yeah, you can do multiple overlays, but I've never tried it |
| 12:19.15 | _abc_ | fsmithred: are debian package installs dated? I.e. can I find out on what date I installed them? I modified a devuan system some days ago in 2-3 longer sessions and took no notes of what I did. Will not be amusing backtracking that |
| 12:19.15 | fsmithred | if you go with loopback files, you can have multiple persistent configurations for different purposes |
| 12:19.23 | *** join/#devuan bluemarlin (~bluemarli@unaffiliated/bluemarlin) |
| 12:19.33 | fsmithred | look in /var/log/apt/history.log |
| 12:19.35 | _abc_ | I know, I would prefer them not to be overlay files for now. |
| 12:20.01 | _abc_ | Installed deb's are not creating individual files somewhere where I can stat them? |
| 12:20.30 | fsmithred | files get dumped into /var/lib/dpkg/info |
| 12:20.38 | _abc_ | fsmithred: when did the logging start being used in apt? |
| 12:20.43 | fsmithred | to keep track of what files are in each package |
| 12:20.49 | _abc_ | It is not present in etch based systems >;) |
| 12:20.57 | fsmithred | really? |
| 12:21.04 | _abc_ | Yep |
| 12:21.21 | fsmithred | I don't know. I probably didn't look in there before lenny |
| 12:21.24 | _abc_ | apt went through about 3 incompatible versions in the last 10 years afaik |
| 12:21.47 | _abc_ | using find -ctime in /var/lib/dpkg/info works, thanks |
| 12:22.51 | _abc_ | Are the files in /var/lib/dpkg/info cleared out upon uninstall? |
| 12:22.54 | _abc_ | of a deb |
| 12:23.13 | fsmithred | not sure |
| 12:25.43 | _abc_ | So kernel boot params persistence persistence-label=private require a volume labelled -L private and a file persistence.conf on it, right? |
| 12:26.01 | fsmithred | yes |
| 12:26.12 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-46-135.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 12:26.16 | _abc_ | is cryptsetup in devuan jessie live? |
| 12:26.28 | fsmithred | should be |
| 12:26.34 | _abc_ | uhh. |
| 12:26.50 | *** join/#devuan _william_ (~william@LFbn-1-12394-216.w90-91.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:27.07 | fsmithred | ok, if you remove a package, some of the files in /var/lib/dpkg/info get removed, but the .list file remains |
| 12:27.16 | fsmithred | with purge, the .list file goes away, too |
| 12:27.40 | *** part/#devuan ThurahT (~ThurahT@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) |
| 12:27.57 | _abc_ | Okay. |
| 12:28.15 | fsmithred | pretty sure cryptsetup is installed. If not, I screwed up. |
| 12:28.25 | _abc_ | So the .list file may be unreliable for this, although I did not purge, but the list in /var/lib/dpkg/info should be reliable |
| 12:28.32 | _abc_ | fsmithred: heh. I trust you put it in. |
| 12:28.50 | _abc_ | What is 'lb'? What command? I do not see it on my system |
| 12:29.01 | fsmithred | lb? |
| 12:29.05 | _abc_ | cryptsetup related. |
| 12:29.08 | _abc_ | label? |
| 12:29.14 | fsmithred | where do you see that? |
| 12:29.27 | _abc_ | https://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/live-manual/stable/manual/html/live-manual.en.html#556 search 'lb config' |
| 12:29.40 | fsmithred | lb is live-build |
| 12:29.44 | _abc_ | ah! |
| 12:29.53 | fsmithred | those are commands for live-build |
| 12:30.03 | fsmithred | lb_config, lb_build |
| 12:30.05 | _abc_ | Shows how little I know |
| 12:30.30 | *** join/#devuan ThurahT (~ThurahT@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) |
| 12:30.40 | _abc_ | Wow +8 degC in January. I'm as far North as Ottawa here. |
| 12:30.45 | _abc_ | And sunny. |
| 12:31.46 | fsmithred | wtf? -1.7C here, and I'm south of Vermont |
| 12:32.06 | _abc_ | Yeah, I know. I'm in Eastern Europe. |
| 12:32.37 | fsmithred | where is the warm air coming from? |
| 12:32.50 | _abc_ | Above? Sunny. |
| 12:33.19 | _abc_ | fsmithred: https://www.wunderground.com/weather/ro/bucharest#forecast-graph take a look, there's a map and stuff |
| 12:33.28 | ThurahT | golf stream/current. We have had no winter what so ever in Scandinavia. |
| 12:33.40 | _abc_ | Ignore their reading, the stations they use are on crazy towers and out in the boonies, in the inner city it's 3 degC mre |
| 12:33.43 | _abc_ | *more |
| 12:35.00 | _abc_ | It drops below 0 every night if that's what's worrying you fsmithred. |
| 12:35.36 | fsmithred | not worried, just curious |
| 12:35.38 | _abc_ | You can see the 22/44 degF there. 22 is quite nippy. |
| 12:36.23 | _abc_ | It's not out of the ordinary, there was a crazy snowstorm etc covering 3/4 of the country a few days ago, some people are still digging out. Missed us here. |
| 12:37.35 | _abc_ | fsmithred: so, with persistence.conf, something like echo "/lib union" >> /mnt/persistence.conf should make /lib persistent? |
| 12:37.56 | fsmithred | I don't know |
| 12:38.08 | fsmithred | would have to read a bit to figure that out |
| 12:38.17 | _abc_ | I will try this maybe tonight. Okay, I'm going to walk a bit, be back later. |
| 12:50.00 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 13:21.13 | *** join/#devuan _william_ (~william@LFbn-1-12394-216.w90-91.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:36.29 | *** join/#devuan Achylles (~Achylles@2804:431:d725:a6c5:4a16:85c4:42e8:f11f) |
| 13:55.11 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 14:08.22 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@ip-109-90-187-196.hsi11.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 14:12.28 | *** join/#devuan theLambda (~theLambda@i577BCD1C.versanet.de) |
| 14:19.02 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 14:46.52 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 15:35.01 | *** join/#devuan danielinux (sbnc@fosdem/staff/danielinux) |
| 15:36.13 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-35-31.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 15:49.56 | *** join/#devuan telmich (~deadghost@gpm/telmich) |
| 15:49.58 | telmich | hello |
| 15:50.06 | telmich | Is anyone using openstack on top of devuan already? |
| 16:19.00 | *** join/#devuan DeFender1031 (~DeFender1@89-138-239-68.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 16:25.20 | *** join/#devuan _william_ (~william@LFbn-1-12394-216.w90-91.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:30.49 | *** join/#devuan blitzed (~blitzed@196.196.232.4) |
| 16:33.13 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger_ (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 16:37.53 | *** join/#devuan gnu_srs (~Svante@po1-84-90-251-149.netvisao.pt) |
| 16:41.23 | *** join/#devuan sokan (~Henry@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 17:13.29 | *** join/#devuan TomTheDragon (~tom@cpe-66-26-229-231.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 17:13.59 | TomTheDragon | Is devuan planned to stay compatible with older architectures of x86, as debian has dropped i586? |
| 17:15.57 | fsmithred | devuan uses debian kernels, so we'll be the same as them |
| 17:16.29 | fsmithred | for pre-pae cpu, add kernel option: forcepae |
| 17:17.02 | fsmithred | I know that sounds wrong. |
| 17:17.19 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b86816fc00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 17:17.28 | fsmithred | hi n4dir |
| 17:22.44 | *** join/#devuan skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) |
| 17:29.35 | sokan | Now I "need" to ask. So in devuan the idea is to get devian kernels and strip them from anything that has to do with systemd? |
| 17:30.06 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-42-169.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 17:30.49 | debdog | uhm, I hope there is nothing related to systemd in the kernel |
| 17:32.09 | fsmithred | sokan, devuan removes the dependency on systemd from debian packages |
| 17:32.10 | n4dir | oh, hi. |
| 17:32.17 | fsmithred | the kernel does not depend on systemd |
| 17:32.31 | fsmithred | I don't think Linus will allow that to happen |
| 17:32.41 | sokan | thank turing for that |
| 17:33.26 | specing | Linus called poettering gang a bunch of monkeys iirc |
| 17:33.43 | sokan | fsmithred, removing all systemd-dep must be a real pain. At least until most of the packages are configured that way. |
| 17:34.01 | sokan | specing, and poetering was v. annoyed by linus at some point iirc :P |
| 17:34.16 | sokan | anyway. thanks for the info fsmithred |
| 17:35.27 | fsmithred | he's also said that he cannot trust init to do the right thing anymore |
| 17:35.38 | sokan | Linus ? |
| 17:36.19 | sokan | I really wonder what will happen to the linux world when Linus rest in piece... |
| 17:36.29 | sokan | i'm not sure I'd like to see that day coming :\ |
| 17:36.43 | fsmithred | yes, Linus said that some time in the past year, I think. |
| 17:38.47 | n4dir | I guess there are more than enough experienced kernel developpers to stay calm as far Thorvalds is concerned. Else there would still be the efforts to make GNU run with the BSD kernel (or, well, the Hurd one) |
| 17:39.39 | sokan | It's the issue of kernel work imo. But what will happen to the general kernel philosophy so to say. |
| 17:40.16 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@mobile-166-176-186-4.mycingular.net) |
| 17:40.29 | n4dir | never heard anything about it. truth to be told. I always assumed he considers himself an engineer first of all. |
| 17:41.19 | sokan | Well, we'll find out eventually hehe |
| 17:42.49 | n4dir | ha. good point. |
| 17:44.19 | sokan | oh man... I can't wait to build me my server and install dev1 on it :3 |
| 17:55.07 | *** join/#devuan fugitive (~fugitive@95.211.147.186) |
| 17:58.45 | *** join/#devuan iu5ivg (~flavio@dynamic-adsl-94-34-141-33.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 17:59.22 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-155.home.otenet.gr) |
| 18:01.47 | *** part/#devuan nepugia (loweematri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-plaevnmoozxjauel) |
| 18:03.48 | *** join/#devuan Digit (~user@fsf/member/digit) |
| 18:06.42 | *** join/#devuan vivus (~vivus@unaffiliated/vivus) |
| 18:09.42 | *** join/#devuan OmegaPhil (~kvirc@62.212.72.243) |
| 18:09.42 | *** join/#devuan OmegaPhil (~kvirc@fsf/member/OmegaPhil) |
| 18:14.14 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~ruse@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 18:14.22 | _abc_ | Hi. fsmithred ? |
| 18:14.32 | _abc_ | Referring to: https://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/live-manual/stable/manual/html/live-manual.en.html#556 again |
| 18:14.48 | _abc_ | "Several different custom overlay volumes (with their own persistence.conf files) can be used at the same time, but if several volumes make the same directory persistent, only one of them will be used. If any two mounts are "nested" (i.e. one is a ... |
| 18:14.52 | _abc_ | ... sub-directory of the other) the parent will be mounted before the child so no mount will be hidden by the other. Nested custom mounts are problematic if they are listed in the same persistence.conf file. See the persistence.conf(5) man page for how ... |
| 18:14.56 | _abc_ | ... to handle that case if you really need it (hint: you usually don't)." |
| 18:15.15 | _abc_ | Oops. Is it sane/safe to do something like echo -e "/ union\n/home" >>persistence.conf ? |
| 18:15.34 | _abc_ | The above is very unclear on this. It gives a way to do it, but then says better don't? |
| 18:16.13 | _abc_ | The above persistence.conf subsums what I intend to do with it. Keep system changes as a delta using union, keep home as a verbatim copy on the rw media. |
| 18:17.49 | djph | upgrading my daily driver to ascii ... here's hoping I don't break too much :) |
| 18:19.21 | *** join/#devuan gnu_srs (~Svante@185.186.78.50) |
| 18:19.31 | KatolaZ | djph: you'll be all right |
| 18:19.34 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:20.48 | djph | at least I remembered to grab the (stretch) firmware-iwlwifi beforehand :) |
| 18:21.57 | KatolaZ | no need I guess |
| 18:22.05 | KatolaZ | it's in ascii as well... |
| 18:26.17 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 18:29.00 | fsmithred | _abc_, I read that kind of stuff and it doesn't sink in. I have to do it. |
| 18:29.26 | _abc_ | fsmithred: indeed it's foot@mouth formulated. Reading https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/live-boot-doc/persistence.conf.5.en.html |
| 18:31.54 | *** join/#devuan gnu_srs (~Svante@po1-84-90-251-149.netvisao.pt) |
| 18:32.22 | fsmithred | I'm having equal success in adding Type HPFS/NTFS |
| 18:33.09 | fsmithred | I found the option that needs to be added, and the same source says that it doesn't do anything. My tests agree. |
| 18:33.25 | _abc_ | fsmithred: reading the manpage I am more confused than before. |
| 18:33.30 | fsmithred | lol, me too. |
| 18:33.50 | fsmithred | I looked at the examples and I feel like my brain just got twisted |
| 18:34.07 | _abc_ | Yes. 2 beers do not help with that here. Saturday after all. Brb |
| 18:34.13 | fsmithred | the i386 isos I make do have the right Type. |
| 18:34.30 | _abc_ | Yes! |
| 18:34.54 | _abc_ | The manpage is really twisted @ union. What is This option will use the union file system specified by live-boot's union boot parameter, but is not supported with union=unionmount |
| 18:34.58 | _abc_ | ... |
| 18:35.01 | _abc_ | now really brb. |
| 18:35.04 | fsmithred | only difference is that the amd64 isos are uefi capable |
| 18:35.30 | fsmithred | lunch time here |
| 18:38.02 | *** join/#devuan gnu_srs2 (~Svante@185.186.78.50) |
| 18:42.27 | _abc_ | ok, I think I get it. You're not allowed to really nest, you can, however, specify a linked source per example in manpage |
| 18:47.28 | fsmithred | what does that mean? |
| 18:47.41 | fsmithred | what are you trying to accomplish? |
| 18:48.41 | _abc_ | It's hard to explain. Basically you can't nest mount (leaf mount) but you can redirect a leaf out-of-tree. See persistence.conf man for example |
| 18:49.04 | _abc_ | *can't leaf mount in a single persistence.conf -- maybe with two? |
| 18:49.13 | *** join/#devuan nrx (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 18:49.30 | fsmithred | maybe. But what do you want to do with it? In plain terms. |
| 18:49.37 | _abc_ | I still don't see how one can create a persistence store in an extX formatted file. |
| 18:50.14 | fsmithred | why not? That's what the OS wants to use. |
| 18:50.25 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I would like what I said: cat persistence.conf : "/ union,source=persisten-root\n/home source=persistent-home" |
| 18:50.50 | _abc_ | The persistence.conf seems to want directories by default? |
| 18:50.59 | fsmithred | I think so |
| 18:51.14 | _abc_ | So how does one say use a formatted file instead? |
| 18:51.16 | fsmithred | why separate the persistent volumes? |
| 18:51.36 | _abc_ | will absorb all sorts of installed packages and system conf, home will contain my own stuff |
| 18:51.48 | _abc_ | * / will absorb |
| 18:52.11 | fsmithred | if you use full persistence, there will be a directory tree on the persistent volume |
| 18:52.27 | _abc_ | Yes, but how does one force a file instead? not possible? |
| 18:52.38 | fsmithred | any changes you make to /etc, /usr, or wherever will be in /etc, /usr or wherever on the persistent volume |
| 18:52.54 | fsmithred | the file gets the persistence label |
| 18:52.55 | _abc_ | Ok, but will my separate /home be honored, or not? |
| 18:53.07 | fsmithred | and there are a couple options on command line |
| 18:53.09 | _abc_ | the file gets the?! |
| 18:53.26 | _abc_ | I am slighly behind. Just a sec. Restart: |
| 18:53.30 | fsmithred | there will be a /home directory with the other |
| 18:53.46 | fsmithred | so any files you save to your home will be kept there |
| 18:54.17 | _abc_ | restart the discussion. Yes / in persistence, with source=persistent-root/ will put a copy of everything new or modified in the rw under persistent-root/ |
| 18:54.25 | _abc_ | I hope. |
| 18:54.33 | _abc_ | I need to try this. |
| 18:54.38 | fsmithred | yes |
| 18:54.50 | _abc_ | So is there a way to mix formatted-files with directories? Using only peristence.conf ? |
| 18:55.30 | fsmithred | if you can figure out how to use multiple persistent volume, then probably yes |
| 18:55.51 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@109.82-130-160.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 18:56.00 | _abc_ | I see no way to specifiy a file as persistent storage for now |
| 18:56.16 | _abc_ | Could it be as simple as specifying a file with name persistence ? |
| 18:57.36 | _abc_ | paragraph 3 shows how to use multiple persistence partitions. https://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/live-manual/stable/manual/html/live-manual.en.html#583 |
| 18:57.44 | _abc_ | How about multiple files? I can't see a way yet. |
| 18:58.00 | fsmithred | yes, it goes by the label |
| 18:58.05 | Guest56719 | sokan: the linux kernel depends only on libudev1-dev so far; i tried building it with libudev1-compat-dev (vdev) about a year ago and it built succesfully |
| 18:58.21 | fsmithred | if the file is named 'persistence' then it will be used if you boot with persistence. |
| 18:58.36 | fsmithred | if you want to use a different name, you add the -persistence-label= option |
| 18:58.40 | _abc_ | fsmithred: so, again: create a partition with -L persistence, place a file called persistence, formatted, in it? |
| 18:58.51 | fsmithred | mp |
| 18:58.54 | Guest56719 | need to go, see you later |
| 18:58.54 | _abc_ | mp? |
| 18:58.55 | fsmithred | oops |
| 18:58.56 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:59.14 | _abc_ | uhh |
| 18:59.15 | fsmithred | if you're using a loopback file, persistence.conf goes inside that file |
| 18:59.31 | fsmithred | and you use -persistence-path=/path/to/that/file |
| 18:59.33 | _abc_ | yes, but how is the file found? I just put it on sdb2? |
| 18:59.37 | _abc_ | AH |
| 18:59.41 | _abc_ | that was the key, ok |
| 18:59.50 | _abc_ | And that has to be hand mounted 1st? |
| 18:59.58 | fsmithred | try it with refracta2usb, because it makes the boot entries for you. |
| 19:00.01 | _abc_ | If the path points to something not on live? |
| 19:00.05 | fsmithred | and it almost always gets it right |
| 19:00.20 | fsmithred | no |
| 19:00.31 | fsmithred | -persistence-media=removable-usb |
| 19:00.44 | fsmithred | and it will look at all volumes there until it finds the label |
| 19:01.17 | fsmithred | or don't tell it removable-usb and it can be on an internal drive |
| 19:01.35 | _abc_ | -persistence-media=removable-usb is a kernel option with '-' as you wroe it? |
| 19:01.43 | _abc_ | Yeah I get it |
| 19:02.04 | fsmithred | probably not with - |
| 19:02.54 | _abc_ | So, in short, a persistence enabled kernel, will try media partitions labelled persistence in some order, then try to find files in each media partition called persistence? |
| 19:03.11 | fsmithred | mp |
| 19:03.13 | fsmithred | no |
| 19:04.10 | fsmithred | if you put the word, persistence, in the boot command, live-boot scripts will look on all volumes for a partition labeled "persistence" |
| 19:04.20 | fsmithred | you tell it removable-usb to save time |
| 19:04.48 | fsmithred | I'm not sure if it will look for files named persistence if you don't use the persistence-path= option |
| 19:05.51 | fsmithred | the disadvantage of using loopback files is that you can't easily access them if the system is not running |
| 19:06.04 | fsmithred | (if you plug the usb stick into a running system) |
| 19:06.17 | fsmithred | you have to mount it |
| 19:06.40 | _abc_ | Yes, that is okay |
| 19:06.41 | fsmithred | clarify: you have to mount the partition that holds the file and then you have to loop-mount the file |
| 19:06.53 | _abc_ | The non okay part is if there is a sever speed penalty. |
| 19:06.58 | fsmithred | or run refracta2usb and clicky-click your way to it |
| 19:07.00 | _abc_ | *severe |
| 19:07.15 | fsmithred | speed when? |
| 19:07.38 | fsmithred | booting? Or running stuff while using the loopback file? |
| 19:07.42 | _abc_ | Running |
| 19:07.49 | fsmithred | I haven't noticed a difference |
| 19:08.10 | _abc_ | persistence is not in the normal kernel parameters apparently. I have a hard time finding a kernel option page where this is even mentioned |
| 19:08.22 | fsmithred | it's a live-boot option |
| 19:08.56 | fsmithred | man live-boot has lots of interesting stuff |
| 19:09.07 | fsmithred | and some interesting stuff is missing |
| 19:09.35 | fsmithred | like how to boot a multi-boot usb to RAM without reading the entire first partition into RAM |
| 19:10.17 | *** join/#devuan mongoose_jake (~jake@24.138.57.234) |
| 19:10.23 | _abc_ | Found one list where this appears in some detail https://craftedflash.com/info/live-distro-boot-parameters |
| 19:11.25 | fsmithred | some of those might be specific to tails |
| 19:11.55 | fsmithred | you can create your own live-config or live-boot scripts that will look for keywords in the boot command |
| 19:12.36 | _abc_ | That page is from 2013 and only supports overlay, no union? |
| 19:12.55 | _abc_ | I would like to not remaster the devuan media for now, just to make it work as is. |
| 19:12.57 | fsmithred | overlayfs instead of unionfs |
| 19:13.08 | fsmithred | my persistence.conf still has 'union' in it. |
| 19:13.36 | _abc_ | union is newer than overlay, no? |
| 19:13.40 | fsmithred | no |
| 19:13.43 | _abc_ | oh |
| 19:14.00 | fsmithred | sorry, overlay replaced aufs |
| 19:14.21 | fsmithred | in wheezy, you needed 'union=aufs' in the command |
| 19:14.45 | fsmithred | in jessie, you no longer need to specify that, but if you did, it would be 'union=overlay' |
| 19:15.11 | _abc_ | the trick is persistence-storage=filesystem|file |
| 19:16.20 | _abc_ | Okay, learned what I need to know to be dangerous I think. Will try this out tomorrow evening. Going soon now. |
| 19:16.20 | fsmithred | oh, interesting. Sounds like it looks for files before filesystems |
| 19:16.25 | _abc_ | Thanks for the patience. |
| 19:16.29 | fsmithred | yw, have fun |
| 19:16.34 | fsmithred | let me know what you find out |
| 19:16.36 | _abc_ | Sure |
| 19:18.52 | _abc_ | fsmithred: any plans to provide a boot entry with persistence on the command line in a later release? |
| 19:18.59 | _abc_ | In addition to the present ones? |
| 19:19.07 | _abc_ | And perhaps make it the default? |
| 19:19.28 | _abc_ | It would have no effect if no persistence partition or file is installed |
| 19:19.44 | _abc_ | But would greatly simplify use once it is, and n00bs need to to use the media. |
| 19:20.37 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@ip-109-90-187-196.hsi11.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 19:20.49 | fsmithred | how would I know what option to use? |
| 19:20.58 | _abc_ | Hm? |
| 19:21.05 | fsmithred | just default persistence? |
| 19:21.12 | _abc_ | Yes, I guess. |
| 19:21.15 | fsmithred | all you have to do is add that one word |
| 19:21.26 | _abc_ | Yes but that requires typing and so on... |
| 19:21.32 | fsmithred | lol |
| 19:21.39 | _abc_ | The 'zomg command line' factor |
| 19:22.20 | fsmithred | if I do that, I can almost guarantee that someone will complain that they didn't have persistence on their live-CD |
| 19:22.30 | _abc_ | Hm? |
| 19:22.33 | fsmithred | ro |
| 19:22.35 | fsmithred | media |
| 19:22.39 | fsmithred | no save files |
| 19:23.06 | _abc_ | oh, okay, you can't increase the iq of everyone, you can lower the entry bar a bit so more people can stumble into it instead of hitting it with the forehead. |
| 19:23.12 | fsmithred | in the past, I have made live-usb images with a persistent partition |
| 19:23.17 | _abc_ | And? |
| 19:23.38 | fsmithred | people couldn't figure out what to do with it, even after I told them |
| 19:23.46 | _abc_ | I totally see uses where a devuan live usb stick is used as rescue device on a dead/compromised system. |
| 19:23.57 | fsmithred | boot without persistence, run gparted and make the tiny persistent volume bigger |
| 19:24.03 | _abc_ | fsmithred: well maybe there should be some 'enable' switch in addition to the keyword on the kernel cli |
| 19:24.17 | *** join/#devuan finwevi (~finwe@prowl.finwe.tf) |
| 19:24.47 | fsmithred | use a refracta iso for rescue. It has added packages for that purpose. |
| 19:24.53 | _abc_ | Also, with usb stick hybrid iso, it is quite possible to script a 'format remaining free space on usb stick as data' 'enable persistence on it' dialog |
| 19:25.34 | _abc_ | Yeah I would like a bare bones gui system I can walk people through hoops with, without too many tools and stuff. I will look at a refracta iso for this too. |
| 19:25.43 | _abc_ | What is the current size of refracta iso's? |
| 19:25.47 | fsmithred | oh, it's not bare-bones |
| 19:25.49 | fsmithred | not at all |
| 19:25.57 | _abc_ | How complex? |
| 19:25.57 | fsmithred | the jessie isos still fit on CD |
| 19:26.16 | fsmithred | I just made an ascii i386 iso that fits on CD, but I had to leave some packages out |
| 19:26.26 | _abc_ | I will only consider iso hybrid on usb for now, eventually dvd burned for really old BIOS cases |
| 19:26.33 | fsmithred | it tries to be a complete dekstop system and rescue/repair system |
| 19:26.49 | fsmithred | xfce, abiword instead of libreoffice, and so on |
| 19:26.53 | _abc_ | Okay, interesting. What's the size of a full i386 refracta iso now? |
| 19:27.00 | fsmithred | 699mb |
| 19:27.18 | _abc_ | Well that's small, no? the live is 850MB? |
| 19:27.36 | fsmithred | I've got an ascii iso with openbox and not a lot else with 4.9 and 4.14 backports kernel |
| 19:27.52 | fsmithred | but that doesn't have all the rescue stuff, either |
| 19:28.00 | _abc_ | I can imagine that |
| 19:28.54 | fsmithred | oh, that one is 716mb |
| 19:29.00 | fsmithred | two kernels |
| 19:29.54 | _abc_ | Ok, time to stop. 2130pm here, no more beer talk :) |
| 19:30.07 | fsmithred | take care |
| 19:30.08 | _abc_ | Thanks, be back 2morrow, then we'll see about refracta. |
| 19:34.45 | *** join/#devuan Jjp137 (~Jjp137@cpe-75-83-16-81.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:44.05 | *** join/#devuan finwevi (~finwe@prowl.finwe.tf) |
| 19:51.32 | sokan | refracta iso is rescue ? |
| 19:52.14 | sokan | i thought refracta was a devuan-based distro |
| 19:54.29 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-155.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:58.25 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@ip-109-90-187-196.hsi11.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 20:02.16 | *** join/#devuan kini (~kini@unaffiliated/kini) |
| 20:09.44 | golinux | sokan: It is a Devuan derivative. |
| 20:10.30 | golinux | But live media can be used to rescue a broken system |
| 20:15.19 | sokan | Aha. got it |
| 20:15.25 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@unaffiliated/etech3) |
| 20:15.39 | sokan | And, erm, derivatives are different than distros-forks? |
| 20:15.52 | sokan | s/than/from |
| 20:33.24 | *** join/#devuan djph (~dpurgert@104-57-151-177.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:37.32 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc08:a00:4cfc:a6:51f4:f2ca) |
| 20:37.44 | *** join/#devuan sokan (~Henry@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 21:01.42 | *** join/#devuan Guest27522 (~guru@2601:196:8700:dfe:3252:cbff:fec5:6f94) |
| 21:01.58 | Guest27522 | ugh if im on debian stretch and change my repos to ascii |
| 21:02.02 | Guest27522 | is that dangerous? :P |
| 21:02.35 | Guest27522 | oh nevermind digitalocean has jessie images still |
| 21:02.40 | Guest27522 | i'll create a new droplet |
| 21:27.27 | fsmithred | stretch to ascii upgrade was the easiest of the bunch that I did |
| 21:27.35 | fsmithred | quickest |
| 21:38.40 | fsmithred | I think dealing with the actual problem is more important than political correctness |
| 21:38.56 | fsmithred | I can't seem to do apt over tor |
| 21:39.18 | fsmithred | shit |
| 22:03.51 | *** join/#devuan gnu_srs (~Svante@po1-84-90-251-149.netvisao.pt) |
| 22:05.56 | *** join/#devuan nrx (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 22:16.07 | Guest27522 | oh i read on the forum not to upgrade stretch to asccii |
| 22:17.37 | gnarface | did they say why? |
| 22:17.49 | gnarface | it's not released yet officially |
| 22:17.58 | gnarface | so that's one reason |
| 22:18.14 | gnarface | but it might be still fine to use for a lot of practical purposes |
| 22:19.53 | Guest27522 | i don't recall, perhaps it was an old post on the devuan forums |
| 22:20.01 | Guest27522 | i'm just going debian jessie -> devuan jessie -> ascii |
| 22:20.47 | gnarface | it'll probably be fine |
| 22:20.56 | gnarface | i've done that a bunch of times |
| 22:21.27 | Guest27522 | thanks :) |
| 22:22.17 | gnarface | you will notice some differences in basic behavior inherent to switching from systemd to sysvinit, though |
| 22:22.25 | gnarface | make sure to ask for help before getting frustrated |
| 22:22.44 | Guest27522 | thanks |
| 22:23.10 | gnarface | for example, some stuff may seem broken but just actually doesn't have permission by default, for security |
| 22:25.55 | *** join/#devuan cyteen_ (~cyteen@73.56.7.51.dyn.plus.net) |
| 22:29.15 | Guest27522 | understood |
| 22:29.16 | Guest27522 | thanks |
| 22:33.57 | gnarface | no problem |
| 22:37.49 | *** join/#devuan clemens3 (~clemens@80-218-38-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:51.53 | fsmithred | Guest27522, you don't have gnome installed, do you? |
| 22:52.08 | Guest27522 | it's a server headless |
| 22:52.15 | fsmithred | oh, easy peasy |
| 22:52.38 | fsmithred | sometimes policykit-1 gets lost in the shuffle, but you probably don't have that |
| 22:53.05 | fsmithred | and you'll have to remove systemd and maybe some of its partners after the upgrade to devuan |
| 22:53.28 | fsmithred | you might have to run dist-upgrade twice to get everything |
| 22:53.42 | fsmithred | you might have to run 'apt-get -f install' at some point |
| 23:20.35 | *** join/#devuan R0b0t1 (~~@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 23:28.21 | *** join/#devuan gattuso (~gattuso@pompel.me) |
| 23:48.15 | *** join/#devuan brabo (~brabo@globalshellz/owner/brabo) |