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| 01:20.25 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 02:40.29 | Xenguy | /c |
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| 03:38.36 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 09:16.45 | cbacba | Hello again. Am on the troubled machine. Xserver is nouveau 1.0.11-1 , libdrm-nouveau2 is 2.4.58-2 , video card is nvidia geforce4 MX440 AGP 8x , glxinfo shows direct rendering on, but libGL is version 1.x not 2.x |
| 09:16.57 | cbacba | Please DO trace which package contains libGL 2.x |
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| 09:17.14 | cbacba | on jessie, aptitude etc cannot find it |
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| 12:58.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | moin |
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| 15:17.55 | skyroveRR | ping Leander ; solved the issue by switching monitors.... seems like the faulty monitor wasn't sending the EDIDs correctly... |
| 15:19.06 | Leander | good to know |
| 15:21.36 | Leander | and I have no idea whether you can still fill out the xorg.conf manually with your monitor's timing settings |
| 15:21.56 | Leander | but that's something you might want to explore, if you want to keep using it |
| 15:23.05 | skyroveRR | I gave the monitor back under warranty :) |
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| 19:22.49 | _abc_ | Hi. Been doing some checking today, that strange GL 2 thing. |
| 19:23.29 | _abc_ | fsmithred: here? |
| 19:24.13 | _abc_ | So in jessie, package slic3r has a silent dependency on libwx-perl , pulling that in with aptitude resolves the problems it has with startup, but, re: GL 2 |
| 19:25.17 | _abc_ | That is another thing. Any attempt to use opengl/freegl failed, with no GL 2.0+ support, until I switched to -- libgl1-mesa-glx 10.3.2-1+deb8u1 ++ libgl1-mesa-swx11 10.3.2-1+deb8u1 |
| 19:25.35 | _abc_ | THIS caused glxgears to print there IS GL 2.0 support, and things started throwing other errors |
| 19:26.04 | _abc_ | Graphics driver is nouveau, and was all the time, the card is a geforce mx440 agp 8x compatible from ATI, so that was not it |
| 19:26.34 | _abc_ | Anyway, the switch to libgl1-mesa-swx11 which conflicts with libgl1-mesa-glx fixed the main missin GL 2.0+ support errors |
| 19:27.19 | _abc_ | So, if possible, when things go bad in the future wrt missing GL 2.0+ support, suggest libgl1-mesa-swx11 install |
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| 19:28.07 | _abc_ | For slic3r, after the above upgrade, it depends on libwx-perl, is to be added to it's dep list conditioned on libgl1-mesa-swx11. I don't know if a conditional dep is possible. |
| 19:29.15 | _abc_ | Now the only 3d printer control software packaged in jessie, repsnapper, depends on pangox components which are not installed at all no matter which pango packages are installed (all are). This causes pangox and font alias errors. |
| 19:29.39 | _abc_ | A package should exist which provides /etc/pango/pangox.aliases and other defoma related things, that is not present in any package for jessie. |
| 19:30.07 | _abc_ | A discussion back in 2014 said it is to be removed?! Used to be in libpango1-common apparently. |
| 19:30.32 | _abc_ | So, fsmithred, please sucggest a way to provide files formerly in the removed (?) package libpango1-common ? |
| 19:30.36 | _abc_ | *suggest |
| 19:30.40 | _abc_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.37 | gnarface | libgl1-mesa-swx11 is a software-only replacement for the glx one, that's not a solution that's gonna work for everyone |
| 19:31.52 | gnarface | furthermore, i think it should be working with your card, so maybe something else is wrong |
| 19:32.25 | gnarface | as for the pango stuff, no idea, but if you look in /usr/share/doc/[package name] often old example stuff for /etc is left in there for reference. init scripts and such. |
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| 19:38.42 | _abc_ | There are no scripts in share for pango/pangox |
| 19:38.45 | fromport | are there any stats about how many devuan users there are ? |
| 19:38.53 | _abc_ | The alias file SHOULD be regenerated after install |
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| 19:39.11 | _abc_ | Therefore, there should be a script or procedure in the system to generate it |
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| 20:06.46 | fsmithred | fromport, https://popcon.devuan.org/ |
| 20:07.01 | fsmithred | _abc_, I'm here, but gnarface knows way more about this stuff than I do |
| 20:07.01 | fromport | fsmithred: ty |
| 20:07.44 | fsmithred | maybe find an old pango package that has what you want and forward-port it |
| 20:08.20 | gnarface | i wonder whether the old one was removed because there's a better way to do this now... |
| 20:08.37 | fsmithred | could be |
| 20:08.55 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I don't know how to forward-port something, will look it up. Is that the right term? |
| 20:09.10 | _abc_ | I tend to install from sources when possible, shows myslackware roots a bit ;) |
| 20:09.11 | fsmithred | in the past, I've tried to find discussions about why packages were changed, and I usually have bad luck |
| 20:09.30 | fsmithred | that's another option, probably a lot easier |
| 20:09.37 | _abc_ | Yes, the debian way shall be followed, not questioned. Sounds familiar? systemd reference... |
| 20:09.47 | fsmithred | I used to do that the first couple years I used debian |
| 20:09.52 | _abc_ | too |
| 20:10.17 | _abc_ | I still do that, this machine is an old old laptop which runs etch which was later knoppix (based on etch), then source maintained. It's mum would reject it. |
| 20:10.32 | fsmithred | lol |
| 20:10.33 | _abc_ | So now it's a debknoppslack thing ;) |
| 20:10.42 | fsmithred | I don't think she'd even recognize it |
| 20:11.03 | _abc_ | Kernel is reasonably up to date (given the 4.1 gcc) |
| 20:11.12 | _abc_ | Also from source of course. |
| 20:11.30 | _abc_ | Anyway, devuan will be on it later when I have time, maybe by the end of the week |
| 20:11.46 | _abc_ | Are the GL problems which I addressed, solved in later releases than jessie for devuan? |
| 20:11.55 | fsmithred | no idea |
| 20:11.57 | _abc_ | Also, how usable are the later releases in present form? |
| 20:12.07 | fsmithred | ascii seems to be fine |
| 20:12.18 | _abc_ | Is it safeish to do an apt upgrade from devuan jessie? |
| 20:12.25 | fsmithred | I haven't even attempted ceres in several months |
| 20:12.39 | fsmithred | yes, I've done a bunch of upgrades to ascii |
| 20:12.46 | _abc_ | What's the order again? jessie-ascii-ceres? |
| 20:12.49 | fsmithred | from devuan and debian jessie and from stretch |
| 20:12.56 | fsmithred | yes |
| 20:13.11 | _abc_ | stretch was pre jessie, right? |
| 20:13.13 | fsmithred | jessie-ascii-beowulf(not even conceived yet)-ceres |
| 20:13.22 | fsmithred | stretch=ascii |
| 20:13.22 | _abc_ | okay |
| 20:13.34 | fsmithred | squeeze then wheezy before jessie |
| 20:13.37 | _abc_ | ascii is a really bad name, not really searchable. There is a lot of ascii noise on the web :) |
| 20:13.46 | fsmithred | and the one after buster also begins with B |
| 20:13.59 | _abc_ | Ah yes the thing I updated to jessie was on wheezy before |
| 20:14.17 | fsmithred | yeah, I guess nobody thought about searching the name |
| 20:14.51 | fsmithred | we all thought it was cool because it's both a minor planet and a computer term |
| 20:14.59 | _abc_ | Would it break dogma and cause the wrath of the debian inquisition to ask for numbers to be added to names? Like wheezy7 jessie8 etc? |
| 20:15.09 | _abc_ | PLEASE? /me kneels and makes large puppy eyes |
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| 20:15.28 | fsmithred | I do that with refracta |
| 20:15.44 | fsmithred | the version that's based on ascii (devuan 2) is refracta9 |
| 20:15.48 | _abc_ | That would also make names searchable, even badly chosen ones like ascii |
| 20:15.59 | _abc_ | Oh, okay |
| 20:16.03 | _abc_ | NICE. Thanks fsmithred |
| 20:16.11 | fsmithred | yeah, well refracta7 was wheezy |
| 20:16.21 | fsmithred | and I didn't want to start counting backward |
| 20:16.27 | _abc_ | This shows I am sane. Somewhat. Also very tired and may be typing some bs. |
| 20:16.53 | _abc_ | fsmithred: it's not like that is unthinkable, but, I hope devuan development will remain sane. |
| 20:16.54 | fsmithred | it's the internet. A certain amount of bs is expected, maybe required. |
| 20:17.11 | fsmithred | I think it will. |
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| 20:17.34 | fsmithred | that's based on my experience working with the devuan devs. They all seem to be reasonable and sane. |
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| 20:18.23 | _abc_ | Hey, the resistance is selected from the general population, as those being able and willing to resist. |
| 20:19.31 | fsmithred | we're really just a bunch of greybeards unwilling to learn new things. Haven't you heard? |
| 20:20.14 | chillfan | Since I'm beardless and red headed I must object ;) |
| 20:20.20 | _abc_ | I need to shave soon. I am scaring people. |
| 20:20.20 | fsmithred | lol |
| 20:20.54 | fsmithred | just wait... |
| 20:21.01 | fsmithred | you'll get there |
| 20:21.02 | chillfan | Also golinux has never have a beard since I've known her |
| 20:21.08 | _abc_ | wool beanie, khaki parka, backpack, old jeans, boots, down in the subway. "I am not a suspect" |
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| 20:21.13 | fsmithred | I think she's the only one who shaves |
| 20:21.44 | _abc_ | Well, there are women who should shave a bit, but, it's okay without too. |
| 20:21.47 | chillfan | Yeah it's quite possible the rest of us are just unkempt or out of touch |
| 20:22.12 | fsmithred | brb |
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| 20:25.23 | fromport | _abc_: i run ceres (for months now) and only problem i run into is sound: i don't have sound in firefox, but do have it with chrome. |
| 20:25.49 | _abc_ | Is that a pulseaudio (you-know-who-wrote-it) reference? |
| 20:26.03 | chillfan | you could try basilisk browser for alsa support |
| 20:26.17 | chillfan | (downside is DRM support) |
| 20:26.23 | _abc_ | I used strace(1) to debug a lot of my problems today, on slic3r and so on. |
| 20:26.48 | _abc_ | It helped. I suggest you try to run firefox under strace and then grep the horrible sized output a bit? |
| 20:26.48 | fromport | i think it definatately is a pulseaudio issue, but I don't get the hint of the "you-know-who-wrote-it) reference" |
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| 20:27.06 | _abc_ | LENNART, OUR BELOVED AGILE CRAP DEVELOPER? |
| 20:27.11 | _abc_ | Sorry about the caps lock. |
| 20:28.26 | fromport | oh sorry, honestly didn't know he is/was behind pulseaudio |
| 20:28.35 | fsmithred | apt-get install apulse |
| 20:30.30 | fsmithred | if you're in jessie, you can get the one in experimental |
| 20:34.24 | _abc_ | apulse is pulse compatible non lennart software? |
| 20:34.46 | fsmithred | apulse was written so skype would work without pulseaudio |
| 20:34.49 | fsmithred | it also works for ff |
| 20:36.36 | fsmithred | it was originally meant to be a one-shot deal, not maintained. I don't know if someone else took over, or if the original author changed his mind (either voluntarily or gun to head) |
| 20:37.31 | _abc_ | heh |
| 20:37.54 | _abc_ | Why was skype needed to work without pulseaudio? |
| 20:38.30 | fsmithred | because some people don't like dealing with pulseaudio, and some of them use skype |
| 20:38.36 | _abc_ | :) |
| 20:41.34 | fsmithred | some people actively hate it. It's like Rasputin - refuses to die no matter how many times you shoot it. |
| 20:47.37 | gnarface | they also poisoned him with cyanide, twice |
| 20:47.54 | gnarface | turns out heavy alcoholism has a strange side-effect; resistance to cyanide |
| 20:49.02 | gnarface | (don't try it at home though, kids) |
| 20:58.21 | fromport | fsmithred: you solved my audio problem, thank you! |
| 20:58.36 | fsmithred | :) |
| 20:59.06 | _abc_ | suggests renaming #devuan to #resist-lennart |
| 20:59.35 | fsmithred | we have #debianfork for that |
| 20:59.45 | _abc_ | Too general :) |
| 21:02.05 | KatolaZ | apulse is in ascii as well |
| 21:02.34 | chillfan | If someone forks dbus and pulse then we'd have a resist lennart thing going on |
| 21:02.43 | chillfan | though apulse is good enough probably |
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| 21:06.32 | gnarface | well, i still couldn't get apulse to solve the steam link audio problem |
| 21:06.40 | gnarface | but maybe i'm doing it wrong |
| 21:07.34 | fsmithred | shouldn't have to do anything |
| 21:07.49 | fsmithred | but I don't know what steam wants |
| 21:17.28 | gnarface | well, by all unofficial accounts it requires pulseaudio on the client |
| 21:18.03 | gnarface | someone claiming to be official told me that it no longer uses pulseaudio natively on the steam link end anymore, but couldn't give me a straight answer about the client |
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| 22:10.08 | nailyk | hi all. Just switch to devuan ascii on my laptop (deboostrap, as usual) and obviously I have a lot of missing things :p |
| 22:10.35 | nailyk | Does a way exist to have netwrok-manager applet in xfce or should I move to another network manager ? Thanks |
| 22:11.07 | chillfan | the wicd network manager can be used, if you don't need additional features like vpn setup |
| 22:11.14 | gnarface | nailyk: i think they did eventually fix network-manager, but the default is wicd |
| 22:11.28 | nailyk | percfect gonna test thanks! |
| 22:17.37 | nailyk | Can you link me to an install page please? It is frozing here. |
| 22:17.47 | nailyk | *freezing ? |
| 22:18.14 | fsmithred | what's an install page? |
| 22:18.37 | nailyk | some how to install webpage ? |
| 22:18.53 | fsmithred | how to install network-manager? |
| 22:18.58 | gnarface | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install |
| 22:19.01 | gnarface | i think he means this |
| 22:19.26 | nailyk | yes but for wicd :) |
| 22:19.29 | gnarface | oh |
| 22:19.39 | gnarface | apt-get update && apt-get install [package name] |
| 22:19.40 | fsmithred | apt-get install wicd wicd-gtk wicd-curses |
| 22:20.08 | fsmithred | you can use gtk or curses or have both |
| 22:20.14 | nailyk | yes just done that but the window stay empty |
| 22:20.30 | fsmithred | oh, what wireless hardware do you have? |
| 22:20.39 | fsmithred | lspci |grep -i net |
| 22:22.09 | nailyk | some intel wifi a/b/n |
| 22:22.25 | nailyk | Intel Corporation WiFi Link 5100 |
| 22:23.10 | fsmithred | apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi |
| 22:23.35 | fsmithred | oh, you might need to add wpasupplicant and wireless-tools, too |
| 22:23.36 | nailyk | yes already done :) |
| 22:23.43 | nailyk | oh you are right! |
| 22:24.09 | nailyk | already installed as dependencies :s |
| 22:24.50 | fsmithred | you might need to reboot. Or if laptop has a physical switch for the wifi, you might need to turn it on. |
| 22:25.04 | nailyk | FI: wicd-curses start fine but cannot find network. Hardware switch is on and no rfkill |
| 22:25.09 | nailyk | ok gonna reboot again . |
| 22:25.18 | gnarface | wait |
| 22:25.36 | gnarface | i've seen one of these laptops with the so-called "hardware" switch |
| 22:25.37 | gnarface | it's not |
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| 22:25.55 | gnarface | and the ascii version of the firmware reverses the on/off positions compared to stock windows drivers |
| 22:26.11 | fsmithred | oh, thanks for the warning. I haven't upgraded the old dell yet. |
| 22:26.24 | gnarface | (also i think it changes the wifi power LED to an rx/tx led) |
| 22:26.54 | gnarface | it's a drive-by-wire switch, nothing hardware about it. |
| 22:27.07 | gnarface | (windows users REALLY don't like finding that out by installing linux) |
| 22:28.21 | gnarface | well, ymmv about the on/off position thing. i forget, i think it may have been a toshiba |
| 22:28.39 | nailyk | I have a toshiba |
| 22:28.48 | nailyk | on the previous debian the switch was fine. |
| 22:28.59 | gnarface | on the one i tested, it didn't even work with the jessie firmware |
| 22:29.07 | nailyk | funny ;) |
| 22:29.24 | gnarface | i had to upgrade it to ascii early, while devuan jessie was still beta |
| 22:29.26 | nailyk | after rebooting the wicd service restarted. Now wicd-curses & wicd-gtk freeze. Need a kill -9. |
| 22:29.38 | gnarface | freeze, really? |
| 22:29.50 | gnarface | not just go really slow during handshake? |
| 22:31.00 | nailyk | don't think there is already a handshake as I never saw a wifi list for now |
| 22:31.17 | chillfan | Hit the button to turn on the wifi in wicd |
| 22:31.17 | nailyk | (need to 'sudo dhclient eth0' to get wired network) |
| 22:31.31 | chillfan | it should bypass any soft blocks |
| 22:31.44 | fsmithred | also make sure wicd is using the correct interface |
| 22:32.06 | fsmithred | should probably be wlan0 |
| 22:32.13 | chillfan | yeah, wext driver on wlan0 or wlan1.. see ifconfig |
| 22:32.15 | nailyk | yes interfaces names are fine |
| 22:32.18 | fsmithred | is eudev installed, or udev? |
| 22:32.20 | fsmithred | ok |
| 22:32.37 | nailyk | yes, I installed udev as a network-manager dependency |
| 22:32.50 | nailyk | eudev too |
| 22:32.55 | fsmithred | oh, ok |
| 22:33.01 | fsmithred | eudev is real, udev is fake |
| 22:33.26 | nailyk | (just tried with 'hardware switch' on off position, same result) |
| 22:33.35 | nailyk | should I remove (e)udev ? |
| 22:33.39 | fsmithred | no |
| 22:33.58 | chillfan | hmm, which packages did you install.. is dbus started? |
| 22:34.17 | chillfan | just to tick those off there if anything.. |
| 22:34.39 | nailyk | mhhh. Just done 'sudo ip link set up wlan0' now wifi list is shown |
| 22:35.06 | nailyk | debus-daemon is started. |
| 22:37.04 | nailyk | Something should be missing. Now wicd attempt to connect on the wifi network, obtaining ip address, etc... Then interface get disabled |
| 22:37.58 | gnarface | hmmm, that's actually what was happening to me on jessie |
| 22:38.05 | gnarface | the ascii version of the iwlwifi firmware fixed that |
| 22:38.51 | nailyk | This package is installed. |
| 22:38.53 | gnarface | do you have the latest system bios for that thing? |
| 22:39.04 | nailyk | However just noticed a lot of 'ifconfig' missing in wicd log. |
| 22:39.20 | nailyk | I guess bios is upto date, it is an old laptop.. |
| 22:39.29 | fsmithred | I think ifconfig is in the net-tools package |
| 22:40.07 | nailyk | thanks ! |
| 22:40.57 | nailyk | awesome! Seems to be working now. Gonna reboot to be sure. |
| 22:43.08 | nailyk | just perfect! |
| 22:43.18 | nailyk | Many thanks for the quick anwser! |
| 22:43.26 | *** join/#devuan targz (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/targz) |
| 22:43.33 | nailyk | Should I open a bug report for missing 'net-tools' dependency for 'wicd' ? |
| 22:43.39 | fsmithred | no |
| 22:43.44 | fsmithred | oh? |
| 22:43.55 | gnarface | you did a debootstrap install, i assume you would have got it with a normal one |
| 22:44.13 | gnarface | may i suggest next time go with expert mode and just uncheck everything at the tasksel stage |
| 22:44.16 | fsmithred | pretty sure wicd works without it |
| 22:44.32 | nailyk | AFAICT there is no other way for ascii |
| 22:44.35 | chillfan | possibly it should depend on net-tools or the other thing.. iproute2? idk |
| 22:44.53 | gnarface | nailyk: well, you'd install jessie and then upgrade from that, in theory |
| 22:44.59 | nailyk | ip route 2 was installed, I used it to switch interfaces up/down |
| 22:45.01 | chillfan | but an install from the cd will provide net-tools |
| 22:45.23 | nailyk | oh! I debootstrap from jessie. |
| 22:45.27 | chillfan | a debootstrap install might be missing that if you used min base |
| 22:45.56 | nailyk | (BTW installing net-tools also solve the 'freeze' effect) |
| 22:46.07 | chillfan | suggest it should use net-tools then if iproute2 isn't working with wicd |
| 22:46.22 | nailyk | yes |
| 22:46.23 | chillfan | but can you verify if it can be configured to use iproute2? |
| 22:46.40 | nailyk | just checked into setting and it can use mii-tools or net-tools for up/down, but not iproute2 |
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| 22:51.29 | chillfan | hm so future reference net-tools or mii-tools, good to know |
| 22:54.26 | nailyk | :) |
| 22:54.55 | nailyk | So no bug report? I know it is a deboostrap install but a dependency was missing anyway, IMHO. |
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| 22:55.59 | gnarface | i'd say it's worth a bug report but i wouldn't necessarily expect any action on it |
| 22:56.09 | gnarface | there's probably a reason it's not set already |
| 22:56.12 | KatolaZ | nailyk: what is that about? |
| 22:57.14 | nailyk | KatolaZ: wicd need miitools or ethtools to works but noone was set as a dependency of the package. |
| 22:57.38 | nailyk | gnarface: ok thanks. |
| 22:57.59 | KatolaZ | nailyk: which version? |
| 22:58.06 | nailyk | ascii |
| 22:58.10 | KatolaZ | jessie or ascii? |
| 22:58.14 | KatolaZ | it's pretty strange |
| 22:58.27 | gnarface | KatolaZ: it's ascii but he did a debootstrap install |
| 22:58.29 | KatolaZ | something like this would have been noticed 2 years ago.... |
| 22:59.03 | KatolaZ | the Depends on net-tools | ethtool is there BTW |
| 22:59.09 | KatolaZ | just |
| 22:59.16 | KatolaZ | apt-cache show wicd-daemon |
| 22:59.41 | gnarface | i could be wrong but i seem to recall #debian being hostile and dismissive of dependency issues directly related to debootstrap installs |
| 22:59.44 | chillfan | It's hard to notice since debootstrap installs from minbase won't include net-tools and allows you to choose whichever you want, I think it should be net-tools instead of net-tools | ethtool |
| 22:59.49 | chillfan | since they provide different things |
| 23:00.12 | KatolaZ | shrugs |
| 23:00.20 | KatolaZ | guys, it comes from Debian |
| 23:00.41 | KatolaZ | and the package is installed in million machines... |
| 23:00.50 | chillfan | So in that case.. please file upstream mentioning net-tools needs a hard dependency |
| 23:01.00 | nailyk | KatolaZ: you are right, net-tools dependency is here, twice BTW |
| 23:01.10 | chillfan | but that possibly won't change since they expect net-tools will be installed during the install I think |
| 23:01.16 | KatolaZ | chillfan: no need |
| 23:01.37 | KatolaZ | because iproute2 + ethtool =~ net-tools |
| 23:01.49 | KatolaZ | and net-tools is an alternative for both |
| 23:02.16 | chillfan | ah, so really it ought to have worked like that |
| 23:02.52 | nailyk | I still have my deboostraped template. Gonna give another shot tomorow to confirm |
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| 23:04.03 | KatolaZ | ok nailyk |
| 23:04.19 | nailyk | thanks a lot for the quick help! See you. |
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