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| 01:22.05 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 15:22.47 | d0g | Sup guys |
| 15:22.58 | d0g | A quick question |
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| 15:23.36 | d0g | I got a 2006 laptop , from what i understand , not vulnerable to spectre |
| 15:24.08 | d0g | Is the kernel patch gonna slow my processor down ? |
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| 15:25.43 | skyroveRR | Hey guys, KMS for intel has stopped working, and the system is no longer detecting full resolution which is 1920x1080, it's defaulting to 1024x768. Version is Jessie 1.0.0 stable, and I'm running the kernel 3.16.0-4 for amd64. Any ideas on getting KMS to work again? The resolution isn't changing in GRUB itself. |
| 15:28.38 | Leander | did you update something before rebooting? (assuming you reboot often) |
| 15:29.18 | skyroveRR | No, I didn't update anything. But yeah, I do reboot often. Like, once every 12-13 hours or so. |
| 15:30.23 | Leander | you would remember if you had updated your BIOS, right? |
| 15:30.44 | skyroveRR | Of course, which I haven't. |
| 15:31.37 | Leander | did you try turning off your computer completely, unplugging it for maybe 25-30 seconds? |
| 15:31.50 | skyroveRR | I reinstalled devuan to see if KMS starts up again on a fresh install with reformatted disks..... that didn't help at all. |
| 15:32.02 | skyroveRR | Erm, nope. Haven't tried that. Hmm. |
| 15:32.25 | Leander | just in case there's something wrong that survives a soft reset |
| 15:32.50 | skyroveRR | What do you suspect, Leander ? |
| 15:33.04 | skyroveRR | A busted intel GFX chip? |
| 15:33.42 | Leander | nothing in particular, at the moment |
| 15:34.13 | skyroveRR | Leander: can I get back to you in a couple of hours? |
| 15:34.29 | Leander | sure, though I might not be online |
| 15:34.51 | skyroveRR | You do check backlogs, don't you? Or should I leave a pm when I get back? :) |
| 15:35.37 | Leander | I mean, I'll be online, but most likely away, so you can leave messages, but most likely some other people will be available for help |
| 15:35.52 | skyroveRR | Fair enough. |
| 15:36.03 | skyroveRR | I'll whine in the channel again in a couple of hours. |
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| 17:01.14 | Wonka | "aptitude update" spits out a few warnings currently, for example: W: Skipping acquire of configured file 'non-free/i18n/Translation-en' as repository 'http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates InRelease' doesn't have the component 'non-free' |
| 17:01.48 | Wonka | also, Origin, Label, and Codename are "None". |
| 17:01.52 | Wonka | is that wanted? |
| 17:05.10 | Wonka | I see it now, http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie-security/InRelease is damaged. It's missing a Ãn between "non-free" and "MD5Sum:". |
| 17:08.10 | KatolaZ | Wonka: there are no Translations file atm |
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| 17:10.47 | Wonka | KatolaZ: it didn't even try to acquire the Translation file because of the missing \n. Says "non-freeMD5Sum:" in InRelease. |
| 17:11.44 | Wonka | Release, InRelease, Release.gpg need to be regenerated. |
| 17:13.20 | KatolaZ | is this jessie-updates? |
| 17:14.05 | KatolaZ | mmmhhh |
| 17:14.07 | KatolaZ | same problem |
| 17:14.18 | KatolaZ | oh |
| 17:14.23 | KatolaZ | it's jessie-security |
| 17:14.25 | KatolaZ | not updates |
| 17:15.09 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 17:15.20 | KatolaZ | it's apparently a bug in the old amprolla |
| 17:15.30 | KatolaZ | the file is fine on pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 17:15.37 | KatolaZ | Wonka: please use pkgmaster.devuan.org |
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| 17:26.05 | Wonka | KatolaZ: thx, works now |
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| 19:12.59 | _abc_ | Hi. I upgraded an older debian to devuan jessie, it's a 32 bit amd from ~2006 |
| 19:13.55 | _abc_ | All is well but I don't get any updates for opengl, this causes graphical tools to balk, specifically openscad says 'need opengl 2.0', the opengl on the installed machine is freegl and it has an 1.x gl compat level per openscad start message. |
| 19:15.19 | _abc_ | I was unable to locate anything opengl related on synaptic. Please advise on how I could upgrade this machine. The graphics card is a low end one, don't remember what, svga 1024x768 is enough for what it does. So how does one get opengl 2.x onto a ... |
| 19:15.20 | _abc_ | ... running devuan jessie please? I can compile from source if needed? |
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| 19:23.58 | gnarface | _abc_: except for officially nvidia hardware, everyone else uses mesa |
| 19:24.37 | gnarface | _abc_: you probably will need to identify that video card though |
| 19:25.32 | _abc_ | gnarface: assume it will run nouveau which it does now |
| 19:25.44 | _abc_ | And mesa I forget which |
| 19:26.02 | _abc_ | The real question is, where is the libgl2.x ? no such package. Is it built into the X server? |
| 19:26.40 | gnarface | i assume it's in mesa |
| 19:26.51 | _abc_ | Well, can one get a little more precise? |
| 19:27.05 | _abc_ | Maybe someone else will chip in? |
| 19:27.20 | fsmithred | install mesa-utils |
| 19:27.36 | _abc_ | And that will suffice? Or will it indicate what I really need? |
| 19:27.40 | fsmithred | that's the only one I ever install |
| 19:27.53 | fsmithred | if it has deps, they will be installed, too |
| 19:27.53 | gnarface | i assume there's a debian wiki page that will cover this, just having trouble finding one that's nouveau specific |
| 19:28.16 | gnarface | https://wiki.debian.org/Mesa pretty much concurs that all you should need to do is install mesa-utils |
| 19:28.26 | gnarface | but it doesn't list any vendor-specific card info |
| 19:28.31 | fsmithred | I use nouveau here |
| 19:28.38 | fsmithred | didn't have to do anything special for it |
| 19:28.56 | _abc_ | I believe you but 10 year old hardware is going to be fun. PCI VID:PID fun. |
| 19:29.10 | fsmithred | can you run lspci? |
| 19:29.21 | _abc_ | I'll go and read some more about this. Am not next to the machine now. Tomorrow. |
| 19:29.33 | fsmithred | for jessie, I did have to replace my geforce-5750 |
| 19:29.52 | fsmithred | um, I think that was for nvidia drivers, though |
| 19:29.55 | _abc_ | This is a really low end card, for sure. |
| 19:30.10 | _abc_ | I don't think there will be any problems, barring broken hw |
| 19:31.22 | fsmithred | how old is the debian on it? |
| 19:32.14 | gnarface | has never heard of freegl |
| 19:32.15 | _abc_ | Hmm? It's already on devuan jessie. |
| 19:32.26 | gnarface | _abc_: he meant how old WAS the debian on it |
| 19:32.34 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 19:32.38 | fsmithred | just curious |
| 19:32.39 | _abc_ | Oh I think it was umm whatever came after etch |
| 19:32.44 | fsmithred | lenny |
| 19:32.46 | _abc_ | Or two after etch? |
| 19:32.50 | _abc_ | Probably lenny |
| 19:33.01 | fsmithred | that sounds like an exciting upgrade |
| 19:34.38 | _abc_ | Nah, I just wiped the root partition and installed from the live-i386 cd iso, with network and all, after booting into it to see it have network and screen |
| 19:35.01 | _abc_ | On the same machine, jessie devian with systemd never booted to gui, and got stuck in kernel boot log |
| 19:35.02 | fsmithred | oh, ok. |
| 19:35.07 | _abc_ | not fixable >;) |
| 19:35.10 | fsmithred | I like a fresh install |
| 19:35.11 | _abc_ | devuan ++ |
| 19:35.27 | _abc_ | Yea, I did not dare an upgrade there, too far apart, asking for trouble |
| 19:35.46 | _abc_ | The previous version also had the same lame opengl problem, that was part of the reason for the upgrade in fact |
| 19:35.53 | _abc_ | Now I do hope to be able to fix it. |
| 19:37.10 | fsmithred | mesa-utils should already be installed |
| 19:37.27 | _abc_ | Indeed. As I said, I will read more. Much more. |
| 19:37.43 | _abc_ | Tomorrow morning, am dog tired now, 20 to 10pm here. |
| 19:38.13 | gnarface | _abc_: it's not impossible that the old original debian install still had an official nvidia driver version from when that card was still supported. |
| 19:38.37 | gnarface | _abc_: if nvidia has stopped supporting it your only recourse is nouveau, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be as well supported. |
| 19:39.05 | gnarface | etch was what... 2006? |
| 19:39.19 | fsmithred | oh, mesa-utils is not in the desktop-live. Just a bunch of libgl-mesa stuff |
| 19:39.48 | gnarface | oh, that's important to note |
| 19:40.43 | fsmithred | I assume it's not in the default desktop install from the installer isos, either, because I tried to copy that for the desktop-live |
| 19:41.36 | _abc_ | The old install ran on vesa not nouveau iirc |
| 19:41.53 | fsmithred | maybe nv |
| 19:41.59 | gnarface | well there's no way opengl worked with vesa, is there? nv, maybe. |
| 19:42.03 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I installed whatever from the net. Are you suggesting I should try to install mesa-utils? |
| 19:42.07 | fsmithred | I don't think there was a nouveau in lenny |
| 19:42.29 | _abc_ | I mean using synaptic, so it should have gotten mesa-utils in too? |
| 19:42.29 | gnarface | yea, that's old enough for nv i think |
| 19:42.38 | fsmithred | yes, you can install mesa-utils. I don't know if it will help, but I don't think it will hurt. |
| 19:42.54 | fsmithred | I include mesa-utils in Refracta isos and nobody has complained about it. |
| 19:43.08 | gnarface | _abc_: https://wiki.debian.org/Mesa |
| 19:43.08 | _abc_ | Agree. Can anyone point at a definitive answer on where exactly libGL2.0+ open or otherwise, resides? |
| 19:44.00 | gnarface | i don't seem to have it here |
| 19:44.13 | gnarface | libgl1 |
| 19:44.44 | gnarface | _abc_: dpkg -S libgl1 |
| 19:44.45 | gnarface | _abc_: dpkg -S libgl2 |
| 19:44.47 | gnarface | _abc_: dpkg -S libgl |
| 19:45.17 | _abc_ | Hm, and what are the answers? Am not in front of the system now, remember? |
| 19:45.24 | gnarface | oh |
| 19:45.38 | gnarface | well, libgl2 returns only this package: libgl2ps1.4 |
| 19:45.44 | gnarface | not sure if that' what you're looking for |
| 19:45.50 | _abc_ | probably not |
| 19:45.53 | fsmithred | I've got a lot of libgl1 stuff but no libgl2 on this jessie or on one ascii install |
| 19:46.06 | _abc_ | fsmithred: what does glxinfo say? |
| 19:46.15 | gnarface | libgl3 returns nothing, and libgl1 returns a bunch of mesa and nvidia packages for me. i'm on ceres. |
| 19:46.32 | gnarface | libgl3 returns nothing, and libgl1 returns a bunch of mesa and nvidia packages for me. i'm on ceres. |
| 19:46.34 | gnarface | woops |
| 19:46.39 | _abc_ | utters choice words about obfuscation |
| 19:47.24 | fsmithred | server glx version string: 1.4 |
| 19:47.35 | _abc_ | So no 2.0? |
| 19:47.40 | fsmithred | nope |
| 19:48.08 | _abc_ | Umm do you have openscad on? |
| 19:48.18 | fsmithred | not that I know about |
| 19:48.21 | _abc_ | It has some examples inside, you can run it and see them render in 3d or get an error. |
| 19:48.35 | _abc_ | It's simple to install, no snags |
| 19:48.46 | _abc_ | Even if it has that error, it pops up an error message window. |
| 19:49.14 | _abc_ | Just curious if you're on it. I mean if it works there. Another thing to try is wings3d which has the same problem, sans message. |
| 19:49.32 | gnarface | _abc_: i'm thinking the glx version string is not the same as the supported opengl rendering version |
| 19:49.48 | _abc_ | utters more choice words about obfuscation of package lib/names |
| 19:50.41 | gnarface | _abc_: here's the output of `glxinfo |grep version -i` on ceres with nvidia official drivers: http://paste.debian.net/1005727/ |
| 19:50.50 | gnarface | fsmithred: (can you pastebin the same as a comparison?) |
| 19:50.57 | fsmithred | sure |
| 19:51.08 | _abc_ | https://wiki.debian.org/Mesa says glxinfo | grep OpenGL is a more useful output? |
| 19:52.29 | gnarface | glxinfo |grep 'OpenGL\|version' |
| 19:53.13 | gnarface | so, it seems like everyone is probably using glx 1.4 |
| 19:53.37 | gnarface | but the important line you're looking for is actually the core profile version string, or the shading language string |
| 19:54.01 | gnarface | on nouveau i think they default to 3.0 or 3.3, which is later than the 2.0 you're asking for and in theory should be sufficient |
| 19:54.13 | fsmithred | http://termbin.com/18gi |
| 19:54.20 | _abc_ | Yes but I am not sure if that is a nvidia compatible card |
| 19:54.23 | gnarface | but i think with nouveau you can actually pass an environment variable to tell it to report any version you please (doesn't mean it'll work though) |
| 19:55.10 | gnarface | _abc_: the glxinfo command shouldn't care who your video card vendor si |
| 19:55.12 | gnarface | *is |
| 19:55.17 | _abc_ | I know. Some machines have this simply working, some not |
| 19:55.26 | _abc_ | Exact same low end c**p, and I have no idea why |
| 19:55.37 | gnarface | just missing package or symlink probably |
| 19:55.49 | gnarface | maybe difference in xorg.conf files |
| 19:55.50 | _abc_ | Cheap *** all in one on board video mobo from 2007-2008 runs this on vesa just fine |
| 19:56.02 | _abc_ | Under whatever linuxcnc debian is on |
| 19:56.21 | _abc_ | I'll try to tinker with video drivers 2morrow |
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| 19:57.07 | _abc_ | Why can't people settle on ONE name for a project. opengl which is freegl which is mesa which is nouveau related which is... guys?! |
| 19:57.32 | _abc_ | In industry we have compatibility tables where you determine what is compatible with what, valid configurations, etc. |
| 19:58.20 | gnarface | everyone but nvidia is using mesa now |
| 19:58.34 | gnarface | like i said, i never even heard of freegl |
| 19:59.13 | _abc_ | Oh, and, gallium. Seriously? At least misspell it a bit, Mendeleev's table is all over the place. |
| 19:59.30 | _abc_ | Ok, thanks for the clues, will go read a bit then go to bed |
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| 20:00.37 | _abc_ | https://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/showthread.php/166044-Mesa-7-0-and-OpenGL-2-0 AHH. |
| 20:00.46 | _abc_ | So 2008+ should work. |
| 20:01.51 | _abc_ | Now, is mesa a lib under devuan, or a proper 'package' of stuff? |
| 20:02.37 | gnarface | it's a bunch of packages |
| 20:02.38 | _abc_ | On ubuntu 'OpenGL version string: 1.4 Mesa 10.1.3' does not provide opengl 2.0+ |
| 20:03.34 | _abc_ | https://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/showthread.php/179529-OpenGL-vs-MESA message #2 is confusing as heck |
| 20:08.04 | gnarface | he's just saying there's no "official" opengl version |
| 20:08.13 | gnarface | there's just a bunch of 3rd party ones |
| 20:09.15 | gnarface | (the "real" one died with SGI many years ago) |
| 20:09.51 | _abc_ | https://kivy.org/#gallery fun project with python mostly for mobiles and touchscreens. Uses opengl 2.0+ |
| 20:10.51 | gnarface | mesa originally started out as the only open-source opengl implementation, more or less just a quick and dirty hack of it to play quake in linux |
| 20:11.00 | gnarface | originally it was almost a joke |
| 20:11.10 | gnarface | eventually as commercial vendors declined in quality, it caught up |
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| 20:11.26 | _abc_ | This joke still does not make me laugh. |
| 20:11.31 | gnarface | lately, those commercial developers (except greedy ass nvidia) have been pitching in on mesa directly |
| 20:11.45 | gnarface | it's now actually the defacto standard |
| 20:12.00 | _abc_ | So under windows, mesa 7.0 circa 2008 provided opengl 2.0+ |
| 20:12.09 | _abc_ | And under linux, even 10x mesa does not provide it |
| 20:12.12 | gnarface | i assure you, it does under linux too, you're just checking it wrong. |
| 20:12.24 | _abc_ | What the fooh |
| 20:12.53 | _abc_ | Current opengl version stable is 4.6 ... |
| 20:13.40 | gnarface | well, i think nvidia is even only providing 4.5 still |
| 20:13.56 | gnarface | but few things need > 3.3 |
| 20:14.05 | gnarface | mostly just some commercial software |
| 20:15.52 | _abc_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_%28computer_graphics%29 Table of Rendering APIs shows indeed 7.0 as being the 1st to support opengl 2.0+ |
| 20:16.10 | _abc_ | fsmithred: are you running jessie? Can you look what mesa version is installed? |
| 20:16.39 | _abc_ | https://packages.debian.org/source/jessie/mesa 10+ should be good |
| 20:16.41 | _abc_ | Is it?! |
| 20:17.08 | fsmithred | ii mesa-utils 8.2.0-1 |
| 20:17.14 | _abc_ | hmm |
| 20:17.26 | _abc_ | And glxinfo says anything nice about gl 2.0+ ? |
| 20:17.34 | fsmithred | 10? |
| 20:17.42 | _abc_ | hm? |
| 20:18.01 | fsmithred | I don't think so. Scroll up for the termbin.com link I posted |
| 20:18.04 | _abc_ | mesa 8.2.0-1 gives what gl per running jessie? |
| 20:18.09 | _abc_ | oh |
| 20:18.11 | _abc_ | OH? |
| 20:18.24 | fsmithred | http://termbin.com/18gi |
| 20:18.51 | fsmithred | 8.2 in jessie, 8.3.0-3 in ascii/stretch |
| 20:18.51 | _abc_ | is that on jessie? |
| 20:19.00 | _abc_ | the termbin dump? |
| 20:19.05 | fsmithred | yes |
| 20:19.21 | _abc_ | okay, so I will have to see what the frick is not installed/working and it should work |
| 20:19.23 | fsmithred | 8.3.0-5 in ceres/sid and buster |
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| 20:19.33 | _abc_ | As I said, a 2008 vintage all on board mobo does it fine. |
| 20:19.52 | _abc_ | So it should work [tm]. Nice. Will try this 2morrow. Thanks. |
| 20:20.02 | fsmithred | 2005 hardware here, except for the G210 vid card |
| 20:20.34 | _abc_ | libdrm-dev is needed too? |
| 20:22.03 | _abc_ | Is there a 'dry' mesa renderer somewhere? One which can draw in a normal X window? |
| 20:22.13 | _abc_ | Xvfb etc, offline? |
| 20:22.50 | fsmithred | I don't know. Are you getting that from my output? |
| 20:22.51 | gnarface | it falls back on software rendering automatically |
| 20:22.57 | fsmithred | the libdrm-dev I mean |
| 20:23.00 | _abc_ | It should yes |
| 20:23.09 | _abc_ | fsmithred: don't know. Will check all this tomorrow |
| 20:23.29 | gnarface | you can usually tell just by looking at the gap in glxgears framerates (though it's hardly a precision benchmarking tool, the difference between hardware and software rendering is usually several thousands of FPS) |
| 20:23.52 | fsmithred | I might have -dev packages installed for building some packages |
| 20:24.56 | _abc_ | https://www.mesa3d.org/install.html see 5. key info on seeing versions installed |
| 20:25.41 | _abc_ | libGL is the main OpenGL library (i.e. Mesa). |
| 20:25.42 | _abc_ | libOSMesa is the OSMesa (Off-Screen) interface library. |
| 20:25.44 | _abc_ | ^ bingo |
| 20:26.39 | _abc_ | on older systems it's libGLU |
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| 20:27.01 | _abc_ | okay, now I know enough to be dangerous. Thanks for the discussion and the pointers, it was helpful. I will be back. |
| 20:28.52 | _abc_ | This explains the connection between freeglut and the other parts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeglut#See_also |
| 20:30.05 | gnarface | most stuff uses SDL for that these days |
| 20:30.16 | gnarface | nobody ever liked GLUT |
| 20:30.20 | _abc_ | Yes. Even androwish :) |
| 20:30.37 | _abc_ | I don't care. I need openscad blender and wings3d and aoi running |
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