| 00:00.11 | fsmithred | debdog, I'm going to re-read the section on preparing scripts and then replace the dollar signs. |
| 00:00.18 | debdog | ok |
| 00:00.47 | fsmithred | also, remember the change-username script you asked me about? I ran it, and it still works. Mind if I add that in? |
| 00:01.05 | *** join/#devuan jubnut (~jubnut@82-70-235-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 00:01.11 | debdog | no. why would I? |
| 00:01.17 | fsmithred | more work |
| 00:01.27 | fsmithred | it's pretty short. |
| 00:01.36 | debdog | plus, the part for it in ref'installer is already translated |
| 00:01.51 | fsmithred | cool |
| 00:02.47 | fsmithred | merzbow, this is the package you want: linux-image-3.16.0-5-amd64 |
| 00:02.49 | debdog | would be helpfull, though, if I have a full set of files for each update (or an up to date git repo :P) |
| 00:03.17 | merzbow | I should not go for the 4.9 one? |
| 00:03.20 | fsmithred | ok, sorry about that |
| 00:03.32 | fsmithred | you're in jessie or ascii? |
| 00:03.45 | merzbow | jessie, yeah |
| 00:04.00 | fsmithred | 3.16 unless you need newer kernel for newer hardware |
| 00:04.02 | fsmithred | I have to go |
| 00:04.10 | merzbow | oic, ty |
| 00:04.10 | fsmithred | back in an hour or two |
| 00:12.42 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 00:26.19 | *** join/#devuan merzbow (~bat@64.183.42.11) |
| 00:29.19 | merzbow | Hmm.. I ran apt-get upgrade with security, and update-grub, but I'm still at 3.16.4 |
| 00:29.49 | nepugia | on jessie you can get 4.9 from backports |
| 00:31.36 | *** join/#devuan attos1 (~nix@x4e32bdf1.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 00:36.18 | *** join/#devuan attos2 (~nix@x5ce0049a.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:00.42 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 01:05.20 | *** join/#devuan merzbow (~bat@64.183.42.11) |
| 01:06.17 | merzbow | ok! i seem to be on the latest kernel (for me). I had to check the apt-cache for linux-image, and then apt-get install linux-image-3.16.0.5... |
| 01:06.37 | debdog | \o/ |
| 01:07.02 | merzbow | it borked my usergroups but that seems fixed now as well |
| 01:08.26 | debdog | what are usergroups? |
| 01:08.54 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 01:12.17 | merzbow | my main user used to be in cdrom, floppy, sys, in my /etc/group file, but after the kernel upgrade he was only in sudo |
| 01:13.35 | debdog | uhm, that should⢠not be kernel related |
| 01:16.48 | merzbow | that's what happened *shrug* |
| 01:19.58 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 01:19.58 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 01:38.53 | *** join/#devuan konsolebox (~konsolebo@110.54.222.221) |
| 01:40.00 | *** join/#devuan LeoTh3o (~LeoTh3o@2.236.252.139) |
| 01:54.18 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 02:06.42 | *** join/#devuan Nukien (~Nukien@162.250.233.55) |
| 02:09.41 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 02:11.19 | *** join/#devuan Humpelst1lzchen (erik@p4FD036F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:16.52 | *** join/#devuan FlibberTGibbet (~david@cust241-dsl93-89-129.idnet.net) |
| 02:26.37 | *** join/#devuan Schallaven (~Schallave@ip-198-96-38-155.dynamic.yorku.ca) |
| 02:32.45 | *** join/#devuan armin_ (~armin@engine.vpn.blue) |
| 02:35.51 | *** join/#devuan sunshavi (~user@181.64.192.53) |
| 02:38.02 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@200116b800181800a04bb92bd39346eb.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 02:59.24 | *** join/#devuan aggrora (~aggrora@c83-252-112-177.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 03:06.54 | *** join/#devuan aggrora (~aggrora@c83-252-112-177.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 03:24.15 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@devuan/developer/centuriondan) |
| 03:36.05 | *** join/#devuan Alisa21 (c16dc49c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.109.196.156) |
| 03:44.30 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 04:24.24 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 04:32.49 | *** join/#devuan KnoP (~andreas@p57B19F10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:45.05 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:b1b6:4441:e58:5d08) |
| 04:46.44 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:b1b6:4441:e58:5d08) |
| 04:52.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:bd31:8462:11d1:ba7) |
| 05:05.05 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-2-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 05:05.31 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 05:10.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:c7d:6807:d334:cd65) |
| 05:22.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:30b6:8a2c:c119:1e50) |
| 05:24.06 | coyote | is ascii/stretch stable for use? |
| 05:31.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:90a7:76c8:78f1:d38f) |
| 05:40.52 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:e5cb:26d2:dfe6:4670) |
| 05:42.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:a9e1:5e96:3d10:7b7c) |
| 05:52.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:d47f:8b96:b08e:d6e1) |
| 06:22.31 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@ppp-62-216-203-37.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 07:04.31 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 07:17.23 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn (UNKNOWN@p549A772A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:21.42 | *** join/#devuan Ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 07:23.42 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-166.home.otenet.gr) |
| 07:38.34 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn_ (UNKNOWN@p549A6E24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:57.52 | *** join/#devuan thaller_ (~thaller@2001:a61:405:5600:d47f:8b96:b08e:d6e1) |
| 08:09.44 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 08:10.05 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-218.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 08:15.12 | *** join/#devuan clemens4 (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) |
| 08:21.20 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 08:24.23 | *** join/#devuan Criggie (~Criggie@2400:6900:ffff:1::1:32) |
| 08:24.53 | Criggie | I have to say my first impression of devuan is bad. |
| 08:25.12 | Criggie | A fresh install fails to complete its first boot |
| 08:25.35 | Criggie | I get to the login manager, which shows X has started OK |
| 08:25.45 | Criggie | login successfully with the user created at install time |
| 08:26.19 | Criggie | and then nothing. Mouse cursor vanishes, just a solid grey background. Can't change to a virtual console. |
| 08:26.27 | Criggie | Have to hard power off to get out of it. |
| 08:27.41 | Criggie | Am I doing soemthing wrong? Machine is an HP SFF business desktop with an older i5 and 16 GB ram, 250GB SSD and a 2TB disk. Video is a nvidia 630 pcie card. |
| 08:27.49 | Criggie | All of this hardware worked fine in debian. |
| 08:27.55 | Criggie | Any thoughts ? |
| 08:31.22 | coyote | >nvidia |
| 08:31.23 | coyote | this |
| 08:33.44 | Criggie | you think the video card is at fault? |
| 08:34.01 | Criggie | I see xorg log file is using the nouveau driver. |
| 08:34.38 | Criggie | would you suggest removing the video card or changing to the nvidia binary driver ? |
| 08:42.39 | gnarface | Criggie: first of all, you said it fails to complete the first boot, then described it completing the first boot, followed by a successful login. it's important you understand that (it'll become apparent why at some time in the future) |
| 08:42.53 | Criggie | looks like you're right - running startx from the command line kills the box dead |
| 08:43.02 | Criggie | an ssh to the host over the network dies at the same time |
| 08:43.14 | Criggie | very weird that slim started and was able to show a login screen |
| 08:43.59 | gnarface | Criggie: second of all, to get a virtual terminal it's now ctrl+alt+F2. try that, first. then we can figure out how to fix your video drivers. (yes, probably the official ones will be better, but probably just disabling compositing in your window manager will work around this current problem) |
| 08:44.06 | Criggie | gnarface: appologies - I was meaning "first time turning on the fresh install to the point a user could do something" |
| 08:44.31 | Criggie | like see a desktop, etc |
| 08:44.41 | gnarface | Criggie: also, which window manager did you pick? that'll be relevant, but your Xorg log is where the smoking gun is likely to lie |
| 08:44.47 | Criggie | XFCE |
| 08:45.57 | gnarface | hmmm. tough call. it's not plasma |
| 08:45.58 | Criggie | yep - switching VC works before starting X. I booted single user mode and ran update-rc.d slim remove to stop it. |
| 08:46.15 | Criggie | So I get a normal console login and can change consoles fine |
| 08:46.17 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 08:46.26 | Criggie | alt-left/right work too here |
| 08:46.29 | gnarface | ok, and even without slim, running startx still locks up the desktop with a black screen though? |
| 08:46.42 | Criggie | Yes - immediate lock when running startx |
| 08:47.03 | gnarface | yea, that's definitely a problem. look at the tail end of the xorg log |
| 08:47.09 | gnarface | maybe it'll say what went wrong |
| 08:47.26 | gnarface | there's often some workaround |
| 08:47.49 | gnarface | if you decide to switch to the official nvidia drivers, make sure to use the packages from the devuan repo, not the script from nvidia.com |
| 08:48.05 | gnarface | (that advice stands for any distro) |
| 08:49.16 | Criggie | Insta-lock. Screens go black, do not switch to low power mode. SSH session dies |
| 08:49.26 | golinux | Criggie: jessie or ascii? |
| 08:49.29 | Criggie | as soon as I run startx from the VC as a user not root |
| 08:49.31 | Criggie | jessie |
| 08:49.45 | Criggie | I didn't see an install iso for anything newer |
| 08:50.02 | gnarface | that's still the case |
| 08:50.07 | gnarface | but are you fully up-to-date? |
| 08:50.19 | Criggie | Yeah its a fresh install - as per the installer |
| 08:50.26 | golinux | Which install iso? |
| 08:50.30 | Criggie | then I did an apt upgrade after the first boot |
| 08:50.39 | gnarface | ok, good |
| 08:50.42 | gnarface | wait |
| 08:50.44 | Criggie | 64 bit installer - haven't got the filename to hand sorry |
| 08:50.54 | gnarface | did you check /etc/apt/sources.list before doing the update? |
| 08:50.58 | golinux | There are several choices. |
| 08:51.06 | Criggie | yup - I had to comment out the CD line |
| 08:51.15 | gnarface | ok, just making sure |
| 08:51.17 | golinux | gnarface: That was my next question |
| 08:51.31 | Criggie | I also commented out the deb-src lines. |
| 08:51.40 | gnarface | Criggie: is this optimus hardware (a laptop with dual video cards?) |
| 08:51.57 | Criggie | No - its an earlier i5 CPU in a HP SFF desktop |
| 08:52.02 | gnarface | ok |
| 08:52.09 | Criggie | the video card is an nvidia geforce 610 |
| 08:52.09 | *** join/#devuan twiggy (~Twig@2a02:c7d:7afd:6900:a17d:c419:1ad7:1f1b) |
| 08:52.15 | gnarface | never heard of it |
| 08:52.29 | Criggie | Two monitors, one VGA one DVI |
| 08:52.37 | gnarface | you check both ports? |
| 08:52.39 | Criggie | in console they are mirrored. |
| 08:52.55 | gnarface | in X they may not be |
| 08:53.02 | gnarface | (by default, at least) |
| 08:53.20 | gnarface | weird actually, because usually for me it's the other way around though |
| 08:53.24 | Criggie | yes. Remember the SSH session freezes up too, ping stops responding for both IPv4 and v6. |
| 08:53.30 | gnarface | right, right |
| 08:53.33 | Criggie | The machine wedges hard when starting X |
| 08:53.37 | Criggie | GOod thought though |
| 08:53.44 | gnarface | yea, gonna have to see that xorg log |
| 08:53.51 | gnarface | but probably a nouveau bug |
| 08:54.00 | Criggie | Heh helps if I turn it back on.... |
| 08:54.27 | gnarface | golinux: xfce in jessie doesn't enable compositing by default, does it? |
| 08:54.45 | Criggie | OK thats new - its now saying "unable to find LVM volume vg/root" |
| 08:54.52 | Criggie | and dumped me at ain initramfs prompt |
| 08:55.00 | Criggie | I think this little bugger has corrupted root |
| 08:55.36 | gnarface | Criggie: problems with nouveau on that era of cards *usually* stems from opengl use, which other than gaming, is only mostly used by compositing or firefox |
| 08:55.41 | gnarface | (so far, at least) |
| 08:56.09 | Criggie | maybe, have never got the installation booted far enough to run a graphical browser |
| 08:56.17 | gnarface | Criggie: that machine though... is that Skylake hardware? i thought skylake hardware wouldn't even boot with the jessie kernel, but it's also possible that using the jessie-backports kernel might fix this |
| 08:56.46 | gnarface | Criggie: if you're gonna do any gaming at all, for the time being it's probably smarter to just use the official drivers |
| 08:57.02 | gnarface | soon even the 600 series will be marked as obsolete and unsupported by them though |
| 08:57.06 | gnarface | then we'll both be in trouble |
| 08:57.07 | Criggie | Right - back to console now. SHould I try dist-upgrading to ascii ? |
| 08:57.23 | Criggie | gnarface: then I'll get my herc mono adapter from the garage :-P |
| 08:57.39 | gnarface | Criggie: personally, i'd try the backports kernel first, but upgrading to ascii is also a valid way to get a new kernel |
| 08:58.02 | gnarface | they'll both be kernel 4.9 something |
| 08:58.12 | Criggie | OK Xorg.log is 46K |
| 08:58.32 | gnarface | that's not absurdly huge |
| 08:58.37 | Criggie | wow nouveau dates from 2014 on this.... seems old. |
| 08:58.58 | gnarface | yea, jessie is using a REAALY old kernel, that's why there's a backports one available |
| 08:59.21 | Criggie | "Server terminated successfully (0)" <-- last line of xorg log |
| 08:59.31 | gnarface | .... interesting |
| 08:59.35 | Criggie | and nothing looks like an error in there. Its mostly mode line selection |
| 08:59.47 | gnarface | grep for lines with "EE" on them |
| 08:59.48 | Criggie | Hmm another observation |
| 08:59.59 | Criggie | the log file is under a second long according to the time stamp |
| 09:00.23 | Criggie | so X quit "successfully" and then the box wedges |
| 09:00.36 | gnarface | well you said you haven't seen a desktop yet, it's entirely possible it finds no valid configuration, fails to autoconfigure one, then exits and nouveau deadlocks |
| 09:01.04 | Criggie | tje only other line for EE is "Failed to load module 'nv' (module does not exist) " |
| 09:01.15 | gnarface | this could be as easily a sign of hardware failure too, but no conclusive evidence either way yet (that nouveau version locked up my machine a lot when trying to do Steam streaming with it) |
| 09:01.22 | Criggie | OK I'm gonna try an upgrade to ascii |
| 09:01.25 | Criggie | cos why not |
| 09:01.27 | gnarface | oh wait |
| 09:01.28 | gnarface | wait |
| 09:01.30 | gnarface | one thing |
| 09:01.34 | Criggie | soot ? |
| 09:01.35 | gnarface | you said the root fs may be corrupted? |
| 09:01.38 | Criggie | shoot eve n ? |
| 09:01.48 | Criggie | I think the hard poweroff confused it |
| 09:02.22 | gnarface | another gotcha: jessie is also using an ancient version of ext4 - so old that if you resize or move it or even maybe fsck it with a newer ext4 version (like the one any other current distro or live image has lately) it will irrevocably corrupt the fs |
| 09:02.29 | Criggie | oooo |
| 09:02.39 | Criggie | I do have a couple mounted partitions from my previous debian install |
| 09:02.53 | Criggie | root was freshly formatted though, as was swap |
| 09:03.03 | Criggie | let me umount them and see what happen |
| 09:03.07 | Criggie | happens |
| 09:03.13 | Criggie | (sorry crap keyboard) |
| 09:04.20 | golinux | gnarface: I don't think compositing is enabled by default. But I read recently that compositing was causing problems. |
| 09:04.39 | Criggie | OK umounting /oldroot made no difference - same wedge on running startx |
| 09:04.57 | Criggie | Will reboot, distupgrade to ascii and see what it does |
| 09:06.14 | Criggie | you'll laugh - my old debian install on this hardware was running 3.2.0 kernel |
| 09:06.26 | Criggie | so 3.16.anything is much newer |
| 09:06.56 | Criggie | 1100 packages to upgrade - this may take a moment or two |
| 09:08.26 | Criggie | Doesn't help that nz.mirror.devuan.org is 450 ms away... seems to be in Europe. |
| 09:08.53 | gnarface | you could try pkgmaster.devuan.org or just auto.mirror.devuan.org (the former is newer) |
| 09:09.16 | gnarface | it's worth noting probably that us.mirror.devuan.org never worked right for me either |
| 09:10.16 | gnarface | there's a lot of things that can be causing this type of failure |
| 09:10.26 | gnarface | but the common causes are usually video card or powermanagement related |
| 09:11.04 | gnarface | so if it's doing the same thing after upgrading to ascii, you might want to try disabling acpi |
| 09:11.06 | Criggie | Does slim somehow run its own X ? |
| 09:11.14 | gnarface | yes, that's what graphical login managers do |
| 09:11.25 | Criggie | OK that makes sense |
| 09:11.33 | gnarface | they run their own x instance that auto-restarts whenever you exit the desktop |
| 09:11.56 | gnarface | so if you change the xorg.conf manually, remember slim will be still caching the old version until you restart it too |
| 09:12.06 | Criggie | well its completely disabled now |
| 09:12.13 | gnarface | there are alternatives |
| 09:12.24 | Criggie | startx may not be as cool but its simpler at this moment |
| 09:13.17 | Criggie | I spun up a test install on a xenserver and that looked quite polished. Also installed on an old asus eee pc, and that was smooth too. |
| 09:13.35 | gnarface | i generally use startx myself, but i've got xdm on some machines because it's ancient enough to not have problems with video cards |
| 09:13.49 | Criggie | I can imagine a new user getting seriously confused though. |
| 09:14.03 | Criggie | HAH xdmcp for the win - remote login |
| 09:14.06 | gnarface | yes, xdm is on the machines other people might login to :) |
| 09:14.48 | Criggie | One thing I hadn't tested is whether Synergy will install on devuan |
| 09:28.13 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 09:31.05 | Criggie | Bother - an upgrade to ascii didn't fix it. Curiously, something reenabled slim though |
| 09:33.23 | Criggie | So tis now running kernel 4.9.0-5 |
| 09:33.32 | Criggie | Is there any value posting the xorg log somewhere ? |
| 09:34.41 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101) |
| 09:36.39 | Criggie | https://pastebin.com/nJciazLp done |
| 09:43.28 | rrq | I have an asus laptop with GeForce 610M, which has "noacpi" on the boot line; I think I needed that to get X working. |
| 09:43.50 | rrq | on that laptop i don;t need acpi |
| 09:44.19 | Criggie | rrq: OK good data point - thank you |
| 09:45.06 | KatolaZ | Criggie: can you condensate the backlog of your issue in 80 chars? |
| 09:45.34 | Criggie | KatolaZ: "fresh install, locks after logging in at slim." |
| 09:45.56 | KatolaZ | Criggie: should try to see what locks |
| 09:46.13 | KatolaZ | if you have another box, try ssh-ing into the freezing one |
| 09:46.16 | Criggie | well - the entire box wedges. A SSH session in freezes too |
| 09:46.17 | KatolaZ | (sorry if this looks silly) |
| 09:46.22 | Criggie | pings stop, both v4 and v6 |
| 09:46.34 | Criggie | nah I know what troubleshooting looks like. :) |
| 09:46.50 | Criggie | So I've tried a dist-upgrade to ascii with no difference |
| 09:46.52 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 09:47.00 | KatolaZ | sorry, don't know what you have tried |
| 09:47.10 | KatolaZ | does it freeze only with slim? |
| 09:47.11 | Criggie | next plan is to remove xserver-nouveau and see if vesa modes work at all |
| 09:47.23 | gnarface | KatolaZ: an important note; the box appears to lock with a black screen at login, but according to his Xorg log, Xorg actually terminates successfully |
| 09:47.39 | KatolaZ | thanks gnarface |
| 09:47.41 | gnarface | KatolaZ: and it happens even if he disables slim and runs startx instead |
| 09:47.45 | Criggie | straight after slim is when it wedges. I've disabled slim and run startx at the console, which does exactly the sae |
| 09:48.06 | KatolaZ | mmmhhh |
| 09:48.10 | KatolaZ | even with xinit? |
| 09:48.23 | Criggie | Hadn't tried that - one sec |
| 09:49.08 | Criggie | OOo xinit as root gives me a single xterm with no window manager - but X is working |
| 09:49.24 | gnarface | Criggie: rrq's tip about noacpi sounds like a highly likely workaround |
| 09:49.52 | gnarface | Criggie: if it works without any window manager though, that does make it sound like using a different one might help too... |
| 09:49.53 | Criggie | yeah let me see wghat its using now |
| 09:50.23 | Criggie | its using nouveau - weird |
| 09:50.48 | gnarface | there could be outstanding glitches in nouveau still that only happen with that card. i don't think the 610 was very common. i don't hear a lot of people talking about it. |
| 09:50.54 | KatolaZ | Criggie: it's not X then |
| 09:50.57 | Criggie | its a permissions problem somewhere - startx works as root |
| 09:51.05 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 09:51.11 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 09:51.27 | Criggie | not a good idea of course |
| 09:51.38 | gnarface | well you need to be in the video group, but i would have expected some complaint in the xorg log... |
| 09:52.04 | Criggie | yeah - startx as a user and it wedges the box again |
| 09:52.10 | Criggie | that's unexpected |
| 09:52.13 | gnarface | very interesting |
| 09:52.46 | *** join/#devuan MDrights[SW (~MDrightsS@31.220.42.234) |
| 09:52.56 | Criggie | and given it was a fresh install, you know there was nothing changed to begin with. |
| 09:53.26 | KatolaZ | Criggie: it's pretty unusual, TBH |
| 09:53.43 | Criggie | what can I say - I'm special. |
| 09:53.44 | KatolaZ | does your startx start anything in particular which could fail? |
| 09:53.54 | KatolaZ | Criggie: surely you are :) |
| 09:54.04 | Criggie | It was never modified by me |
| 09:54.18 | KatolaZ | was it an upgrade from jessie? |
| 09:54.19 | Criggie | so its exactly what the jessie installer put in place |
| 09:54.47 | Criggie | it was a fresh install of jessie, did the same thing. So gnarface suggested a kernel upgrade / dist upgrade |
| 09:54.56 | KatolaZ | Criggie: which installer did you use? |
| 09:55.45 | Criggie | the installer ? I downloaded the stable amd64 iso, dd to a pen drive and booted that. |
| 09:56.03 | Criggie | totally stock installer I guess, nothing tricky at all. |
| 09:56.19 | Criggie | User account is in the video group |
| 09:58.05 | gnarface | well it could be failing to detect your display right (something a custom modeline or even just defined horizontal/vertical refresh settings can often fix) but in that case i usually expect to see the xorg log complain that it couldn't find any valid screen configurations before exiting |
| 09:58.09 | Criggie | I chose the XFCE desktop if that makes any difference |
| 09:58.25 | gnarface | well you can try something like twm or blackbox to see if it does make any difference |
| 09:58.32 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 09:58.46 | gnarface | most the nouveau opengl problems are centered around compositing desktops, though |
| 09:58.57 | Criggie | twm works great under root user from xinit |
| 09:59.01 | Criggie | startx works as root |
| 09:59.08 | Criggie | but nothing works as the username criggie |
| 09:59.16 | gnarface | (for example, that kde plasma thing i hear is a real problem with nouveau for a lot of people, if you don't disable compositing) |
| 09:59.40 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 09:59.48 | gnarface | Criggie: you're in the video group, are you also in the input group? |
| 09:59.54 | Criggie | does it need root permisisons to work ? |
| 10:00.07 | gnarface | it depends |
| 10:00.21 | Criggie | groups returns "criggie cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev netdev scanner lpadmin |
| 10:00.34 | Criggie | so no not in an input group |
| 10:00.46 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:01.10 | Criggie | yes |
| 10:01.28 | Criggie | 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u2 |
| 10:02.13 | gnarface | so, they made a recent change to make Xorg *not* run suid root anymore by default, despite certain drivers (*cough* nvidia *cough*) still requiring it. xserver-xorg-legacy should revert to the old behavior |
| 10:02.43 | gnarface | something is definitely not happy though |
| 10:02.44 | Criggie | ok 0 logs show its using nouveau |
| 10:02.59 | Criggie | I've added myself to input group |
| 10:03.28 | Criggie | No difference - rebooting now. |
| 10:05.28 | Criggie | whoami |
| 10:05.33 | Criggie | Bah wrong keyboard |
| 10:05.49 | Criggie | X works Perfectly as root, running xfce4 |
| 10:05.59 | gnarface | ok |
| 10:06.09 | gnarface | so, something should be easy to fix this |
| 10:07.05 | gnarface | you could find the xorg binary and try to set it suid root again |
| 10:07.08 | KatolaZ | Criggie, gnarface: I think other users have had a similar issue before |
| 10:07.13 | KatolaZ | I am pretty sure it has been solved |
| 10:07.16 | KatolaZ | (somehow) |
| 10:07.17 | gnarface | or you could try uninstalling xserver-xorg-legacy |
| 10:07.25 | Criggie | diffing the xorg logs now |
| 10:07.44 | gnarface | someone in here has been recommending a config file change but i forget what it is exactly. adding or removing 1 line from Xsessions config i think. |
| 10:08.16 | Criggie | removing xserver-xorg-legacy make no difference.... rebooting. |
| 10:08.38 | KatolaZ | Criggie: rebooting won't help |
| 10:08.52 | KatolaZ | fsmithred has done it for sure |
| 10:09.03 | Criggie | KatolaZ: yeah it does - the box is hard wedged. How else am I going to get it back ? |
| 10:09.14 | Criggie | its not just noit working - even ssh sessions die |
| 10:09.17 | *** join/#devuan cyteen (~cyteen@255.178.93.209.dyn.plus.net) |
| 10:09.56 | KatolaZ | oh sorry Criggie |
| 10:10.12 | Criggie | s'all goodo |
| 10:10.22 | Criggie | I totally appreciate the input from everyone here |
| 10:13.46 | Criggie | chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg didn't help at all |
| 10:13.52 | gnarface | i had a problem similar to this with my pinebook, but it turned out to actually be loading the wrong framebuffer driver - one that didn't work right with the new default permissions setup |
| 10:14.00 | gnarface | (in ascii - didn't test jessie on that hardware) |
| 10:14.43 | gnarface | Criggie: yea but i think /usr/bin/Xorg is just a bash script now. unset that and drill down to find the real one. |
| 10:14.58 | Criggie | heh that would be a noob error - BRB |
| 10:16.19 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 10:16.55 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 10:18.12 | Criggie | yeah it is a shell script. THe binary is /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg.wrap and that is -rwsr-sr-x which is suid I think |
| 10:18.49 | gnarface | yea, should be right |
| 10:19.09 | gnarface | oh |
| 10:19.15 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 10:19.20 | gnarface | wait but maybe not if you just removed that xserver-xorg-legacy package |
| 10:19.49 | Criggie | yeah I put it back in |
| 10:19.57 | Criggie | change only one thing at a time, right ? |
| 10:20.33 | *** join/#devuan eliasr (uid27497@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-beyefbvqnxnseqqw) |
| 10:20.55 | gnarface | right |
| 10:23.06 | gnarface | Criggie: when you start it up WITHOUT root permissions, it should write the log to ~/.local/share/xorg instead, i think. not knowing that may sabotage debugging |
| 10:26.25 | gnarface | ah ha! |
| 10:26.39 | gnarface | Criggie: mabye i found it. what do you have in your /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config? |
| 10:27.12 | Criggie | allowed_users=console |
| 10:27.21 | gnarface | oh hmm. ok that should be right |
| 10:27.23 | gnarface | maybe that's not it |
| 10:27.32 | gnarface | i swear one of those files someone had a 1-liner to add to it to fix this |
| 10:27.34 | gnarface | i just forget what |
| 10:28.35 | gnarface | Criggie: did you try noacpi as a kernel command-line option yet? |
| 10:29.14 | Criggie | No, thank you I'll do that now |
| 10:30.50 | Criggie | appending noacpi to the kernel line in grub at boot time made no difference |
| 10:31.17 | gnarface | eh, it was worth a try |
| 10:31.43 | Criggie | I'm almost tempted to do a fresh install and try a different desktop environment to see if it makes a difference |
| 10:31.51 | gnarface | well you don't need a fresh install for that |
| 10:32.27 | Criggie | I did de-select the print server option :) |
| 10:32.37 | Criggie | wonder if theres a dependency there |
| 10:32.46 | KatolaZ | Criggie: no way |
| 10:32.52 | KatolaZ | you are not the first one installing jessie |
| 10:33.03 | gnarface | probably not. multiple window managers will definitely play nice together, too. you can set the default one on a per-user basis with a custom ~/.xinitrc |
| 10:33.06 | KatolaZ | and most people have done the same steps |
| 10:33.49 | gnarface | it might be worth it at this point to start hammering out a static xorg.conf to see if specifics might make it cough up a more contextual error message |
| 10:34.34 | Criggie | OK |
| 10:35.10 | Criggie | Its odd that the entire box gets slammed. I'd expect X to be unable to interrupt ping replies and ssh sessions |
| 10:36.02 | gnarface | well, that right there is a good reason to try the nvidia official drivers as a comparison. even the nouveau people will tell you not to use nouveau drivers except as a last resort. |
| 10:36.35 | Criggie | OK - whats the distro-recommended way to isntall nvidia drivers? DKMS ? |
| 10:37.10 | gnarface | just enable non-free and contrib in your sources.list then install "nvidia-driver" |
| 10:37.38 | gnarface | it *should* automatically blacklist nouveau, but if it doesn't you'll have to do that manually (they don't play nice together) |
| 10:39.01 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 10:39.04 | gnarface | i don't want to panic you, but you could be facing hardware failure here too. usually i'd expect corrupted text glyphs/graphical modes and random segfaults from the video memory, if it fit the usual pattern for nvidia planned obsolesence though |
| 10:39.30 | *** join/#devuan dr_gogeta86 (~gogeta@195.ip-37-187-42.eu) |
| 10:39.35 | *** join/#devuan dr_gogeta86 (~gogeta@unaffiliated/dr-gogeta86/x-8885803) |
| 10:39.52 | gnarface | (also i'd expect it not to work differently as root, but i've seen weirder things happen) |
| 10:39.56 | Criggie | true - I could boot my old debian install and see what that does. |
| 10:40.07 | gnarface | it was using nvidia official drivers? |
| 10:40.26 | Criggie | yes it was |
| 10:40.48 | gnarface | if you have an easy way to do that, it's certainly a worthwhile test. if you have a static xorg.conf file in there too, grab it either way. |
| 10:41.01 | gnarface | (you might still need it) |
| 10:41.18 | Criggie | partway through installing nvidia-driver right now. |
| 10:41.29 | Criggie | booting to unload nouveau |
| 10:41.40 | coyote | guys |
| 10:42.04 | coyote | i need to use one kernel for 2 systems. can i just copy /lib/modules to devuan from slackware system? |
| 10:42.34 | coyote | system loads, but without modules |
| 10:42.42 | Criggie | WHEEEEEEYYYYY |
| 10:42.47 | Criggie | nvidia driver works! |
| 10:42.53 | gnarface | coyote: it's not quite that simple - the default grub config expects initrd.img to be present |
| 10:42.54 | coyote | Criggie, congratz! |
| 10:42.59 | Criggie | gnarface: you're awesome! |
| 10:43.03 | coyote | gnarface, i use lilo |
| 10:43.07 | gnarface | thanks Criggie |
| 10:43.14 | gnarface | coyote: oh, well it might also |
| 10:43.15 | KatolaZ | Criggie: great |
| 10:43.17 | Criggie | KatolaZ: you're awesome too :) |
| 10:43.26 | coyote | they have separated initrd.gzs |
| 10:43.38 | coyote | wish me luck |
| 10:43.38 | KatolaZ | Criggie: didn't do much, tbh |
| 10:43.45 | KatolaZ | gnarface played it well ;) |
| 10:43.46 | Criggie | coyote: why do you want to do that? Its going to get you in so much mess |
| 10:44.31 | gnarface | coyote: basically it'll work but it's a couple extra steps more than just copying /lib/modules/[kernel version] - you'll have to either generate an initrd.img too, or reconfigure your boot up (and the kernel) not to need one |
| 10:44.33 | Criggie | coyote: what's the use case for one kernel on two systems ? Do you mean two different distro installs on one host, or copy the same /boot to two different boxes ? |
| 10:44.34 | coyote | because school has been cancelled |
| 10:44.40 | coyote | i'm free today |
| 10:45.00 | Criggie | coyote: You want to run devuan and slackware on a single machine in turn ? |
| 10:45.02 | coyote | i did all needed. initrd.gz's configured |
| 10:45.08 | coyote | Criggie, yep ^^ |
| 10:45.17 | KatolaZ | coyote: go write a program then! :D |
| 10:45.23 | KatolaZ | learn a new language |
| 10:45.29 | coyote | KatolaZ, too easy |
| 10:45.32 | Criggie | I'd install one on sda1 and the other on sda2 and use grub as a boot loader to find which one to start |
| 10:45.45 | Criggie | coyote: or I'd start one of each as VMs. |
| 10:46.00 | coyote | i also you going to use united /home |
| 10:46.06 | coyote | *trying* |
| 10:47.52 | gnarface | eh, it's a learning process |
| 10:52.21 | Criggie | oh man a new install feels weird |
| 10:52.29 | Criggie | so many normal commands missing |
| 10:52.53 | gnarface | next time, don't uncheck "standard system utilities" |
| 10:52.58 | gnarface | heh |
| 10:53.12 | Criggie | I didn't :-P Normal stuff like mtr and rsync and tcpdump |
| 10:53.26 | KatolaZ | Criggie: those are not "standard"... |
| 10:53.36 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 10:53.49 | KatolaZ | you don't want them around in a minimal server installation |
| 10:54.01 | KatolaZ | and if you do, they are an apt-get install away |
| 10:54.07 | Criggie | HAH they're some oof the first thtings I put on at work |
| 10:54.18 | KatolaZ | YMMV |
| 10:54.20 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 10:54.24 | Criggie | vconfig (in centos) or vlan in debian were high on the list too |
| 10:54.25 | KatolaZ | we should cater for all tastes |
| 10:54.49 | Criggie | X only exists to tile more xterms together :-P |
| 10:55.09 | KatolaZ | I use "tabbed" for that. Criggie :P |
| 10:55.30 | KatolaZ | s/\./,/ |
| 10:55.56 | Criggie | heh everyone has a slightly different workflow |
| 10:56.18 | Criggie | erg - looks like my old backup script wasn't working |
| 10:56.27 | gnarface | shills for enlightenment so hard that Samsung should send him a free phone |
| 10:56.38 | KatolaZ | gnarface: :D |
| 10:56.52 | Criggie | Had a 60GB SSD as root, and was supposed to synch it to a 60 gb partition on the spinning drive as a just-in-case. Hasn't run since 2014. |
| 10:56.56 | Criggie | I'm a bad sysadmin |
| 10:57.23 | Criggie | Doesn't help that its 3 minutes to Friday |
| 10:58.16 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 10:58.20 | coyote | YEAH |
| 10:58.22 | coyote | it works! |
| 10:58.34 | coyote | but i need install also non-free firmware |
| 11:04.46 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 11:06.24 | gnarface | Criggie: well maybe it's better that it didn't, because now you have a legacy install that still works. now all you have to do is figure out what changed (nvidia/nouveau looking like a primary suspect right now) |
| 11:06.28 | coyote | yeah |
| 11:06.52 | coyote | emm, brightness doesn't change |
| 11:07.17 | gnarface | coyote: did it on slackware? |
| 11:07.31 | coyote | what? |
| 11:07.42 | gnarface | did brightness changes work on slackware |
| 11:07.45 | coyote | on slackware brightness is configured with crutch |
| 11:07.45 | gnarface | ? |
| 11:07.52 | gnarface | oh |
| 11:07.58 | gnarface | i'm not familiar with that |
| 11:08.26 | coyote | i want to configure the new system better |
| 11:08.40 | gnarface | usually a userspace daemon interacts directly with kernel modules |
| 11:09.05 | gnarface | some hardware needs vendor-specific stuff though |
| 11:09.15 | gnarface | there are a couple that are specific to certain vendors like dell and toshiba |
| 11:09.33 | gnarface | sometimes it's just an issue of missing the right character map for the keyboard FN keys though |
| 11:09.48 | coyote | hmm yes |
| 11:09.50 | Criggie | Right - work in 6 hours |
| 11:10.01 | coyote | i also need to configure keyboard layouts |
| 11:10.03 | Criggie | I'm for bed - thank you all for yor assistants |
| 11:10.10 | Criggie | and your assistance :) |
| 11:10.30 | gnarface | later on Criggie |
| 11:11.22 | gnarface | Criggie: we will help you get to the bottom of this, but you may also want to ask in #nouveau about any 610 specific problems that may be relevant here |
| 11:11.45 | gnarface | Criggie: (or just switch to nvidia official drivers, and be happy if they happen to work still) |
| 11:12.20 | gnarface | the nvidia official drivers will phase out those cards eventually, but you might be able to put off figuring out how to get nouveau to behave for another year or so |
| 11:38.16 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.97.108) |
| 11:58.15 | *** join/#devuan markong (~marco@46.166.137.69) |
| 12:03.10 | *** join/#devuan clemens3 (~clemens@80-218-38-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:07.33 | *** join/#devuan avbox (d5a03e0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.160.62.13) |
| 12:07.59 | avbox | hi, is there someone who knows how to install kodi on devuan |
| 12:09.20 | KatolaZ | avbox: apt-get install kodi |
| 12:10.16 | avbox | => Unable to locate package kodi |
| 12:10.29 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 12:10.44 | KatolaZ | avbox: are you on jessie or ascii? |
| 12:11.01 | avbox | I'm on jessie |
| 12:11.13 | KatolaZ | it's available from jessie-backports then |
| 12:11.17 | Humpelst1lzchen | jessie is probably still xbmc |
| 12:11.30 | *** join/#devuan coyote (~coyote@176.223.73.199) |
| 12:12.11 | avbox | Can I just put the jessie-backports from debian or where is devuan-backports? |
| 12:12.49 | KatolaZ | avbox: use devuan's repo |
| 12:13.10 | KatolaZ | which mirror are you using? |
| 12:13.39 | KatolaZ | (it should be sufficient to add a line like the "jessie" one, replacing "jessie" with "jessie-backports") |
| 12:14.08 | avbox | ok it works, did not know that there is jessie-backports on devuan, sorry! |
| 12:14.24 | avbox | ...and many thanks for the help |
| 12:15.25 | KatolaZ | np |
| 12:18.27 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc08:a00:9dc9:1df3:6a38:1d59) |
| 12:22.35 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-218.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 12:27.09 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@e-tech-systems.com) |
| 12:27.09 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@unaffiliated/etech3) |
| 12:29.27 | *** join/#devuan captainfixerpc14 (~captainfi@32.218.1.202) |
| 12:29.27 | *** join/#devuan captainfixerpc14 (~captainfi@unaffiliated/captainfixerpc14) |
| 12:32.28 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@unaffiliated/etech3) |
| 12:32.44 | *** join/#devuan hgunth (~hgunth@gateway/tor-sasl/hgunth) |
| 12:34.14 | *** join/#devuan DarkUranium (~DarkUrani@77.38.34.248) |
| 12:37.34 | *** join/#devuan MDrights[SW (~MDrightsS@31.220.42.234) |
| 12:37.46 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@unaffiliated/etech3) |
| 12:40.07 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 12:43.06 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@e-tech-systems.com) |
| 12:43.06 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@unaffiliated/etech3) |
| 12:47.20 | *** join/#devuan clemens4 (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) |
| 12:48.26 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@e-tech-systems.com) |
| 12:48.26 | *** join/#devuan etech3 (~root@unaffiliated/etech3) |
| 12:58.25 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-218.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 13:09.28 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:30.23 | *** join/#devuan metxn (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 13:37.20 | *** join/#devuan skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) |
| 13:42.04 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 13:47.59 | *** join/#devuan sokan (~Henry@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 13:54.13 | *** join/#devuan saptech (~saptech@unaffiliated/saptech) |
| 13:56.37 | *** join/#devuan MDrights[SW (~MDrightsS@31.220.42.234) |
| 14:03.41 | *** part/#devuan saptech (~saptech@unaffiliated/saptech) |
| 14:08.07 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.75.29) |
| 14:12.31 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 14:19.36 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-218.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 14:27.04 | *** join/#devuan twiggy (~Twig@2a02:c7d:7afd:6900:d250:99ff:fe0c:c945) |
| 14:33.00 | *** join/#devuan bwn (~bwn@c-67-174-159-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:37.09 | *** join/#devuan Kruppt (~Kruppt@104.169.20.25) |
| 14:43.15 | *** join/#devuan DarkUranium (~DarkUrani@77.38.34.248) |
| 14:44.33 | *** join/#devuan jathan (~jathan@fixed-187-190-159-133.totalplay.net) |
| 14:56.42 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 15:00.46 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@89-78-6-88.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 15:01.31 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-218.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 15:05.16 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing1 (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.177) |
| 15:08.31 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 15:13.24 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 15:13.45 | *** join/#devuan konsolebox (~konsolebo@112.198.75.4) |
| 15:17.36 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b868309f00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 15:19.26 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 15:22.33 | *** join/#devuan cyteen_ (~cyteen@146.66.58.21) |
| 15:26.48 | *** join/#devuan targz (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/targz) |
| 15:27.14 | *** join/#devuan rsx (~rsx@46.244.245.23) |
| 15:27.36 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-2-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 15:41.21 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-166.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:47.17 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-166.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:52.57 | coyote | guys |
| 15:53.15 | coyote | does devuan.org glitches only for me? |
| 15:53.32 | djph | maybe |
| 15:53.50 | djph | what "glitches" are you noticing? |
| 15:54.31 | coyote | i open the site and screen is black, i scroll down and see a part of it |
| 15:54.50 | coyote | pale moon |
| 15:55.33 | coyote | and how to speed up package downloading from auto.mirror.debian.org? |
| 15:56.14 | coyote | oh, palemoon has crashed |
| 15:56.48 | nemo | sounds like a graphics card bug |
| 15:57.04 | nemo | can happen if you've been putting off rebooting for a while, or your graphics acceleration is just unreliable |
| 15:57.08 | nemo | or something is stressing things too much |
| 15:57.30 | coyote | nope, other sites work normally |
| 15:59.33 | *** join/#devuan skyroveRR (~skyroveRR@unaffiliated/skyroverr) |
| 16:00.25 | nemo | coyote: *shrug* site seems fine here |
| 16:00.29 | nemo | let's see if I whitelist it for JS... |
| 16:00.41 | nemo | exactly the same |
| 16:00.50 | coyote | i think it's browser's bug |
| 16:01.32 | nemo | I like my theory frankly |
| 16:01.38 | nemo | I've had that happen before, at random |
| 16:01.42 | nemo | for reasons given |
| 16:01.48 | nemo | and it can be totally inconsistent |
| 16:01.54 | nemo | esp if some other site got lucky w/ grabbing buffers |
| 16:02.02 | nemo | restarting browser might clear it up too |
| 16:02.08 | nemo | or at least give devuan first crack at the textures |
| 16:02.16 | nemo | or restarting x |
| 16:02.47 | nemo | putting off rebooting can do it if you ran updates and now there's lib mismatches |
| 16:03.05 | skyroveRR | Hey guys, I'm running a custom distro, and for that I'm using the devuan 3.16.0-4-amd64 kernel. I only created a few files like null,zero,random,urandom and tty inside /dev, and I don't have a device manager either. However, the /dev seems to get populated every time. :) |
| 16:04.04 | nemo | skyroveRR: O_o you sure you don't have eudev installed? |
| 16:04.16 | skyroveRR | Yes, very. :) |
| 16:04.24 | nemo | or vdev |
| 16:04.56 | skyroveRR | None. |
| 16:05.06 | skyroveRR | Even I'm amazed at what's creating those files. |
| 16:05.06 | KatolaZ | skyroveRR: or mdev |
| 16:05.16 | skyroveRR | Nope. |
| 16:05.20 | KatolaZ | of MAKEDEV (statically) |
| 16:05.34 | skyroveRR | MAKEDEV? Hearing that for the first time. |
| 16:05.44 | KatolaZ | skyroveRR: it must be one of your init scripts |
| 16:06.50 | skyroveRR | I have a handful of modules that are manually loaded in /etc/rc.d/rc.modules... but I don't think any of them are responsible for creating the basic ones. |
| 16:07.23 | skyroveRR | KatolaZ: and no other init script is loading any device manager. |
| 16:07.57 | nemo | long time ago gentoo used to unpack those in a tarball... |
| 16:08.08 | KatolaZ | skyroveRR: it's something that is probably creating the devices statically |
| 16:08.10 | nemo | that kinda ends my familiarity tho, I have been on a dev thingy for a long long time |
| 16:08.29 | KatolaZ | skyroveRR: but if it's a custom distro, you should know better than anybody else |
| 16:08.44 | skyroveRR | I'm loading the distro using initrd.img and vmlinuz, which are from devuan. So perhaps the initrd itself is responsible? |
| 16:08.52 | *** join/#devuan metxn (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 16:09.40 | nemo | skyroveRR: should be pretty easy to mount the image and look no? |
| 16:10.15 | skyroveRR | KatolaZ: yeah, hence the suspicion on initrd.img. |
| 16:10.32 | KatolaZ | skyroveRR: it's easy to check your suspicion |
| 16:10.35 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 16:10.55 | KatolaZ | just unpack the initrd |
| 16:10.57 | skyroveRR | Well, am not good at playing with initial ram disks as much as init scripts... |
| 16:11.30 | nemo | skyroveRR: mount -t ext3 -o loop ⦠|
| 16:11.33 | nemo | well assuming it is ext3 |
| 16:11.40 | nemo | don't have the img sitting in front of me |
| 16:11.44 | skyroveRR | initrd.img: gzip compressed data, last modified: Tue Nov 21 11:54:51 2017, from Unix |
| 16:11.48 | nemo | ah |
| 16:11.54 | nemo | well gunzip first then |
| 16:11.55 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@devuan/developer/fsmithred) |
| 16:11.55 | skyroveRR | ^ file initrd.img |
| 16:12.00 | nemo | weird they wouldn't call it initrd.img.gz |
| 16:12.20 | nemo | hm. wonder if there's a compressed loop mount for mount. guess could read file in from a pipe too |
| 16:12.30 | nemo | <(gunzip -c) or whatev |
| 16:15.34 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 16:16.10 | coyote | guys, where is mkinitrd? |
| 16:17.05 | KatolaZ | coyote: I guess you mean mkinitramfs |
| 16:17.23 | coyote | only initramfs |
| 16:17.28 | coyote | :( |
| 16:20.11 | skyroveRR | nemo: Ah. There's mdev in the initrd :D |
| 16:20.40 | skyroveRR | Sneaky! :) |
| 16:20.48 | nemo | guess that should be directed at KatolaZ ⺠|
| 16:20.54 | nemo | I'm unfamiliar w/ mdev too |
| 16:21.09 | nemo | I went straight from gentoo's tarball that it packed up on shutdown to a devfs |
| 16:21.35 | skyroveRR | And a whole host of stuff to bring up a small boot environment, including sh. :0 |
| 16:21.46 | nemo | cool |
| 16:22.13 | nemo | busybox? |
| 16:22.36 | KatolaZ | skyroveRR: if you want a minimal system you should not use stock stuff :) |
| 16:22.37 | skyroveRR | Uh yup, that one is there as well. |
| 16:22.50 | skyroveRR | Nah, i don't need a really minimal sys. |
| 16:22.57 | KatolaZ | well, busybox is the last problem, since it's less than 2MB of stuff |
| 16:22.57 | nemo | skyroveRR: odds are /bin/sh is a hardlink or softlink to busybox then |
| 16:23.08 | KatolaZ | and you might need it anyway in the initramfs.... |
| 16:23.08 | nemo | skyroveRR: most embedded envs can benefit from busybox |
| 16:23.12 | nemo | IMO you should leave it ð |
| 16:23.18 | nemo | for recovery if nothing else |
| 16:23.20 | skyroveRR | nemo: nope, /bin/sh isn't. |
| 16:23.25 | nemo | you suuure |
| 16:23.26 | skyroveRR | nemo: I know. |
| 16:23.30 | nemo | ok... |
| 16:23.33 | skyroveRR | I use busybox myself. |
| 16:23.35 | nemo | too lazy to check sometimes |
| 16:23.47 | nemo | but people do sometimes miscount hardlinks |
| 16:23.50 | skyroveRR | I mean, I compile busybox stuff myself. |
| 16:23.52 | KatolaZ | coyote: mkinitrd is a RedHat-specific thing, IIRC |
| 16:23.53 | nemo | m'k |
| 16:24.12 | nemo | skyroveRR: hm. what shell is it then? |
| 16:24.19 | coyote | KatolaZ, ok... |
| 16:24.22 | skyroveRR | Just "sh". |
| 16:24.27 | nemo | O_o |
| 16:24.31 | nemo | csh? |
| 16:24.35 | skyroveRR | IDK. |
| 16:24.42 | nemo | it should tell you |
| 16:25.04 | *** join/#devuan Nukien (~Nukien@162.250.233.55) |
| 16:25.25 | skyroveRR | I sshd the stuff from an x86_64 to an x86 machine... hence I can't load it. |
| 16:25.46 | skyroveRR | * scp'd |
| 16:30.17 | KatolaZ | coyote: anyway an initrd is just a gzipped cpio archive... |
| 16:43.43 | skyroveRR | TIL :) |
| 16:50.44 | *** part/#devuan avbox (d5a03e0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.160.62.13) |
| 16:51.28 | *** join/#devuan avbox (d5a03e0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.160.62.13) |
| 16:57.18 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@89-78-6-88.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 17:13.22 | *** join/#devuan tarbz2 (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/targz) |
| 17:17.12 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@ip-109-90-187-196.hsi11.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 17:37.55 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 17:39.26 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:42.11 | avbox | \JOIN #wandern |
| 17:45.21 | coyote | not here |
| 17:46.29 | Wonka | Hmm... I wonder why the current openssh-server in ceres depends on libsystemd0? |
| 17:47.33 | Wonka | as does the one in ascii |
| 17:47.49 | Wonka | openssh-server 1:7.1p2-2+devuan1 did not. |
| 17:49.42 | coyote | ceres is debian testing |
| 17:49.51 | coyote | it's tested now |
| 17:49.56 | coyote | and can have bugs |
| 17:50.06 | Wonka | well... no. ceres is unstable, ascii is testing. |
| 17:52.47 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 17:55.16 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101) |
| 18:00.56 | *** join/#devuan msiism (~devdoc@dslb-178-000-243-028.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 18:01.36 | *** join/#devuan attos (~nix@x5ce0049a.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 18:08.51 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-218.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 18:12.45 | golinux | Wonka: No ascii is not "testing". Well, it kind of is for us but it is debian stable. |
| 18:13.30 | golinux | buster is Debian testing which will be our beowulf once ascii is released. |
| 18:19.02 | *** join/#devuan Ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 18:22.49 | *** join/#devuan icebreaker (~icebreake@ip-109-44-2-45.web.vodafone.de) |
| 18:28.47 | Wonka | golinux: https://devuan.org/ calls Jessie "Stable", Ascii "In development" and Beowulf "Coming soon". https://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/testing/Release contains "Codename: ascii". how much more "testing" could it be? |
| 18:29.14 | KatolaZ | Wonka: that's a relic from pre-jessie |
| 18:29.27 | KatolaZ | the correct denomination for ascii is "In Development" |
| 18:29.39 | KatolaZ | it's not a testing, since it's mergins a stable Debian release |
| 18:30.20 | Wonka | Other way round, https://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/Release contains "Suite: testing" and "Description: Devuan 2.0 ascii (testing release)", but not "In Development"... *nitpick* |
| 18:30.30 | Wonka | anyway. |
| 18:31.04 | Wonka | why are there older +devuan1 versions of a package without systemd (libsystemd0) dependency, and newer ones with? |
| 18:31.19 | Wonka | will it go away again? and when? |
| 18:32.00 | Wonka | the whole reason for me to switch to devuan was to not have systemd. |
| 18:32.03 | fsmithred | that's like asking if the cockroaches will go away |
| 18:32.37 | Wonka | well, who let them in to the House of Project "Cockroach Free"? |
| 18:32.41 | nepugia | Depends how much you pay the exterminator |
| 18:32.51 | fsmithred | 1+ |
| 18:33.12 | fsmithred | please consider adopting a package (long-term) |
| 18:33.55 | KatolaZ | Wonka: you don't have systemd |
| 18:34.00 | Wonka | can't really promise regular amounts of time, but I'd try to provide patches here and there, as I find time. |
| 18:34.05 | fsmithred | removing lsd0 is not a top priority. Removing dependency on systemd is. |
| 18:34.10 | KatolaZ | Wonka: ssh is a vital package |
| 18:34.22 | KatolaZ | if we don't have a good maintainer, we can't remove the libsystemd0 dep |
| 18:34.36 | KatolaZ | (which anyway is harmless, as I have tried to explain 1 million times...) |
| 18:34.46 | nepugia | wonka: problem is more that we moved into the cockroach infested house, the mission now is to exterminate em, but it will take time, and effort :3 |
| 18:34.47 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-42-227.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 18:34.49 | fsmithred | it's like having libpulse without pulseaudio |
| 18:34.59 | fsmithred | or libselinux without selinux |
| 18:35.31 | Wonka | okay, so hunting down the calls into lsd0 could be done one by one... |
| 18:35.34 | nepugia | fsmithred: uhh, i almost trashed my install cus of libpulse, though i suppose that way my own fault :D |
| 18:35.54 | fsmithred | hey, if it was a new install, no biggie. |
| 18:36.04 | fsmithred | just re-do it |
| 18:36.14 | fsmithred | can't tell you how many installs I've done wrong the first time. |
| 18:36.20 | nepugia | was a converted install for server stuff on rasbperry |
| 18:36.35 | nepugia | i kind of didnt want libpulse on a server, for reasons |
| 18:36.50 | KatolaZ | Wonka: if libsystemd0 says that there is no systemd around, the software calling it will not call anything else |
| 18:37.01 | KatolaZ | just look at the code, if you don't believe me |
| 18:37.09 | fsmithred | nepugia, what pulled it in? |
| 18:37.32 | Wonka | KatolaZ: I do. I was more about "well, let's exterminate the calls to lsd0 one by one from ssh then". |
| 18:37.46 | nepugia | no idea honestly, was some time ago |
| 18:38.02 | Wonka | As I said, I'd love to maintain something, but I just cannot promise any regular involvement. So, if there's some git, I could mail diffs... |
| 18:38.05 | nepugia | before jessie was devuan stable |
| 18:38.07 | Wonka | or anything |
| 18:38.21 | KatolaZ | Wonka: it's not just a matter of "sending diffs" |
| 18:38.40 | Wonka | KatolaZ: what else? |
| 18:38.54 | Wonka | I mean, I want to help, I just don't have much time. |
| 18:39.18 | KatolaZ | maintaining the package |
| 18:39.38 | Wonka | that I can't do because of regularly no time. |
| 18:39.39 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 18:42.43 | KatolaZ | Wonka: we can't keep openssh behind |
| 18:42.53 | *** join/#devuan metxn (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 18:42.56 | KatolaZ | so if we can't maintain it, it's far better to have it updated |
| 18:43.17 | KatolaZ | rather than without libstemd0 but vulnerable |
| 18:43.59 | Wonka | KatolaZ: ack. I could try to submit patches, so someone else just has to integrate them... but more I cannot do. |
| 18:44.27 | Wonka | KatolaZ: that's all I can do to help, unfortunately. |
| 18:45.16 | KatolaZ | Wonka: I really appreciate it, but we can't solve problems just by sending patches |
| 18:45.34 | KatolaZ | because somebody needs to work on those patches |
| 18:45.40 | KatolaZ | integrate them |
| 18:45.50 | KatolaZ | and take care of the builds |
| 18:46.03 | Wonka | I know... |
| 18:46.08 | KatolaZ | (no offence intended) |
| 18:46.13 | Wonka | :) |
| 18:46.16 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:46.18 | Wonka | none taken |
| 18:46.21 | KatolaZ | great |
| 18:46.24 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 18:46.38 | Wonka | I wish toddlers and families wouldn't eat that much time ;) |
| 18:46.55 | KatolaZ | I don't wish that :P |
| 18:47.02 | KatolaZ | never had :) |
| 18:47.22 | KatolaZ | btw, the long-term plan is to provide a replacement for libsystemd0 |
| 18:47.31 | KatolaZ | which just replied that systemd is not available |
| 18:47.45 | KatolaZ | this would solve most of the problems with libsystemd0 deps |
| 18:47.58 | KatolaZ | maybe starting with beowulf already |
| 18:48.24 | KatolaZ | (provided that people trust our shims better than Pottering stuff ;)) |
| 18:48.33 | Wonka | Kids are fun, but after the job that pays the bills and the family, _if_ there's any hours left before bedtime, I often don't have the power left to do any more useful things :/ |
| 18:48.42 | KatolaZ | I know |
| 18:48.49 | Wonka | cool |
| 18:49.10 | Wonka | that lib0systemd idea sounds not that hard to do |
| 18:50.36 | nepugia | every call to libsystemd deletes the exectuable that called it hurhur |
| 18:55.11 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-42-227.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 18:59.53 | *** join/#devuan Wonka (produziert@chaos.in-kiel.de) |
| 19:00.02 | *** join/#devuan Wonka (produziert@madwifi/support/wonka) |
| 19:05.27 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 19:11.58 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@46.19.140.18) |
| 19:14.22 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-5d6a5a-117.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:17.34 | MinceR | i'd definitely trust your shim more than poettering's malware |
| 19:18.02 | MinceR | especially considering that a libsystemd shim that _really_ did nothing would not need to be updated |
| 19:18.16 | MinceR | and would not be subject to red hat's potentially malicious changes |
| 19:23.43 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 19:32.13 | *** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@71.109-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:34.27 | *** join/#devuan aqu4 (~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen/bot/aqu4) |
| 19:46.18 | *** join/#devuan Ipe (~Ipe@a91-156-244-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:58.21 | Wonka | MinceR: it would need to be updated if any relevant function signature changed. should not be too hard though. |
| 20:01.10 | *** join/#devuan ymasson (~ymasson@LFbn-BOR-1-14-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:11.55 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 20:13.51 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-218.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:15.41 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 20:22.32 | *** join/#devuan clemens4 (~clemens@80-218-38-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:26.08 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 20:42.21 | *** join/#devuan Hestben (~robert@ua-83-226-77-74.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:43.58 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 20:53.17 | *** join/#devuan sammi` (~sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-fjtbmojtsncacpkl) |
| 20:56.42 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.75.12) |
| 21:12.22 | *** join/#devuan guru----- (~guru@2601:196:8700:dfe:3252:cbff:fec5:6f94) |
| 21:12.32 | MinceR | which shouldn't happen often |
| 21:12.39 | MinceR | then again, it's poettering and his cult, so... |
| 21:15.21 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.34) |
| 21:17.33 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:18.27 | Criggie | more is better, don't you know? |
| 21:19.16 | fsmithred | I'm in the US, so yes, I know that. |
| 21:22.17 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 21:24.13 | msiism | has three audio/media players installed and uses all of them (more is better) |
| 21:25.44 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 21:27.55 | msiism | but then, less is more on quite many occasions, especially with more and less. |
| 21:28.05 | nepugia | heh, i have vlc and sox |
| 21:28.48 | msiism | vlc, mplayer and alsplayer here |
| 21:29.01 | msiism | alsa... |
| 21:36.07 | *** join/#devuan sammi` (~sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-zgqhleopkxfxpjmo) |
| 21:38.38 | *** join/#devuan merzbow (~bot@rrcs-64-183-56-162.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:39.13 | merzbow | hello again. I deleted systemd and now my x hangs and wont boot.. what do |
| 21:39.23 | merzbow | im in a root aptitude |
| 21:40.09 | Criggie | exactly what did you delete? What was the command you gave? |
| 21:40.45 | merzbow | whereis systemd, mmv /usr/systemd trash:/// |
| 21:40.57 | Criggie | well that was stupid. |
| 21:40.58 | Criggie | sorry |
| 21:41.27 | merzbow | idonthaveandit degree |
| 21:43.22 | Criggie | you might be best reinstalling. |
| 21:43.29 | KatolaZ | hold on |
| 21:43.40 | KatolaZ | merzbow: what is the problem? |
| 21:43.48 | merzbow | x wont start |
| 21:43.58 | KatolaZ | (are you following any howto or similar?) |
| 21:44.23 | Criggie | merzbow: are you running devuan? Or somethign else? Cos I don't even see /usr/systemd |
| 21:44.24 | merzbow | just happened.. I was up and running fine, decidedto reboot and now I cant get passed slim |
| 21:44.45 | merzbow | it was in a few places.. usr/share |
| 21:44.54 | merzbow | 3 folders, I still have them |
| 21:45.05 | KatolaZ | merzbow: what are you running? |
| 21:45.25 | merzbow | devuan jessie x86_64 kernel 3.16.0-5 |
| 21:47.06 | merzbow | is there a command to return th used to be? theye filesto where |
| 21:47.23 | merzbow | return the files to thwere they used to be* |
| 21:48.54 | merzbow | I knew I sould have troubles with systemd creeping in |
| 21:50.01 | Criggie | merzbow: if you want systemd perhaps you should run debian ? devuan was intended to remove systemd from debian. |
| 21:50.48 | merzbow | i saw it and tried to remove it |
| 21:51.36 | fsmithred | did you remove /lib/systemd? |
| 21:51.50 | merzbow | I believe so |
| 21:52.04 | fsmithred | possibly reinstalling udev will help |
| 21:52.11 | merzbow | nods |
| 21:52.14 | KatolaZ | merzbow: just apt-get install --reinstall systemd |
| 21:52.15 | KatolaZ | .... |
| 21:52.18 | fsmithred | maybe a long shot |
| 21:52.25 | fsmithred | what? |
| 21:52.28 | KatolaZ | and/or whatever you removed |
| 21:52.38 | KatolaZ | but I guess it's OT here, right? |
| 21:53.00 | fsmithred | I've tried installing systemd in devuan. It doesn't work. |
| 21:53.10 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 21:53.33 | KatolaZ | merzbow: you can't install systemd in devuan |
| 21:53.41 | KatolaZ | unless you use non-devuan repos |
| 21:53.50 | merzbow | im not trying to |
| 21:54.18 | Criggie | merzbow: what's your goal here ? |
| 21:54.29 | merzbow | startx |
| 21:55.01 | KatolaZ | merzbow: are you running devuan? |
| 21:55.09 | merzbow | ... yes. |
| 21:55.17 | KatolaZ | so forget systemd |
| 21:55.18 | Criggie | merzbow: what's your goal here - why were you removing systemd stuff ? |
| 21:55.32 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, he deleted files that had systemd in the name |
| 21:55.33 | KatolaZ | merzbow: what did you remove, exactly? |
| 21:55.36 | merzbow | im using thbecause i want a systemdless system |
| 21:55.49 | merzbow | sorry i cant see the type field |
| 21:55.56 | merzbow | :( |
| 21:56.03 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 21:56.11 | Criggie | merzbow: devuan IS a systemd-free install. |
| 21:57.18 | fsmithred | systemd strolled into town and adopted every kid on the block, so now, lots of children who are not related to systemd have its name. |
| 21:58.44 | fsmithred | might be faster to reinstall than to figure out how to fix it. (assuming this is a new install) |
| 21:59.00 | Criggie | fsmithred: that is a picturesque image. |
| 21:59.21 | Criggie | systemd is genghis kahn. |
| 21:59.29 | fsmithred | yeah, that's more like it |
| 21:59.48 | merzbow | may indeed tarball htome and je |
| 21:59.49 | fsmithred | merzbow, look at root's history to see what commands you used. |
| 22:00.00 | merzbow | k |
| 22:00.31 | merzbow | wow good idea |
| 22:00.51 | fsmithred | and in the future, use the package manager to remove packages. Don't delete system files unless you know exactly what you're doing. |
| 22:01.10 | merzbow | yeah this is silliness |
| 22:01.25 | merzbow | it was working in the session so I didnt think I crippled the system |
| 22:02.22 | merzbow | ty guys again |
| 22:02.37 | merzbow | gives chmod 777 to #devuan |
| 22:03.04 | fsmithred | gets nervous |
| 22:03.46 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 22:04.15 | fsmithred | can you figure out what you deleted? |
| 22:05.32 | merzbow | yes /lib/systemd /etc/systemd and /usr/lib/systemd |
| 22:05.41 | merzbow | theyre still in my trash |
| 22:06.16 | merzbow | I think I got it from here |
| 22:07.06 | Criggie | criggie@thionite:~$ du -sh /lib/systemd /etc/systemd /usr/lib/systemd |
| 22:07.07 | Criggie | 300K /lib/systemd |
| 22:07.07 | Criggie | 40K /etc/systemd |
| 22:07.07 | Criggie | 96K /usr/lib/systemd |
| 22:16.46 | fsmithred | try restoring from trash. If that doesn't work, (or maybe do it also) reinstall udev |
| 22:17.58 | nepugia | since when does devuan have a trash can |
| 22:20.17 | merzbow | I made a trash folder in my home directory |
| 22:20.31 | merzbow | restoring from that |
| 22:21.33 | *** join/#devuan Wonka (produziert@chaos.in-kiel.de) |
| 22:21.34 | *** join/#devuan Wonka (produziert@madwifi/support/wonka) |
| 22:28.52 | Criggie | merzbow: how are you getting on? |
| 22:29.03 | Criggie | Its a learning experience for you if nothing else ;) |
| 22:29.20 | merzbow | of course, thats why im here and left windows :) |
| 22:30.40 | merzbow | looks like I may qualify for reinstall but well see |
| 22:38.08 | merzbow | so its generaadd debian sources.list? the devuan repo is missing some dependencieslly not recmmended to |
| 22:38.14 | merzbow | jesus |
| 22:38.39 | merzbow | its recommended not to add the debian sources.list? ** |
| 22:39.10 | Criggie | why would you do that ? |
| 22:39.28 | Criggie | what are you installing ? |
| 22:39.36 | merzbow | for example, qemu |
| 22:39.44 | merzbow | missing depends in devuan repo |
| 22:40.43 | Criggie | hmmm - don't add debian repos. That would be only slightly better than using the centos repos. |
| 22:40.44 | nepugia | dont get the debian sources list because you can get all you get from debian in devuan, just that some packages have been adjusted to have less systemd, so enabling debian lists can only lead you to loose stuff |
| 22:41.01 | KatolaZ | merzbow: you are mixing repos man |
| 22:41.05 | KatolaZ | and you shouldn't |
| 22:41.12 | KatolaZ | qemu is in devuan |
| 22:41.19 | merzbow | dont cross thebeams .. noted |
| 22:41.28 | KatolaZ | so you have no reason to use debian's repos |
| 22:43.21 | fsmithred | what seems to be missing? |
| 22:43.30 | Criggie | My next plan is to install synergy, which is packaged for debian but not devuan. |
| 22:45.24 | fsmithred | I see synergy in jessie |
| 22:45.43 | Criggie | yeah I need the non-free version |
| 22:45.47 | Criggie | not the ancient free one |
| 22:45.48 | *** join/#devuan DeeEff (thatgeoguy@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hyanwdwomfjatykf) |
| 22:46.30 | fsmithred | If you are getting third-party .deb packages, take the ones for the right debian release. |
| 22:47.07 | DeeEff | hey all, I can't seem to upgrade awesome on ceres because it apparently needs a default-dbus-session-bus package, which relies on systemd |
| 22:47.22 | DeeEff | this has been a longstanding issue for a few packages that I've worked around in the past, but here I dont' think I'll be able to |
| 22:47.27 | DeeEff | does devuan have a solution for this yet? |
| 22:48.12 | fsmithred | dbus-x11 solves that problem in some cases, but I think the package has to be fixed to allow that. |
| 22:48.27 | KatolaZ | DeeEff: if the package can rely on dbus-x11, it's just a matter of repackaging |
| 22:48.31 | KatolaZ | oops |
| 22:48.45 | fsmithred | yours was less iffy |
| 22:49.36 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 22:49.39 | KatolaZ | same message though |
| 22:49.53 | fsmithred | ceres is not getting a lot of attention these days. The solution might be to stick to ascii. |
| 22:50.11 | merzbow | EATSU/DRINKSU snacks |
| 22:50.18 | merzbow | whoops |
| 22:50.37 | merzbow | time to change my root pass |
| 22:50.45 | fsmithred | lol |
| 22:50.45 | merzbow | im hopeless ;_; |
| 22:51.09 | fsmithred | you are not alone, merzbow |
| 22:51.50 | *** join/#devuan early (~early@68.ip-149-56-14.net) |
| 22:51.55 | DeeEff | it really just needs to be renamed so that things don't need to be repackaged |
| 22:51.55 | DeeEff | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=833401 |
| 22:51.55 | DeeEff | see this thread |
| 22:51.55 | DeeEff | fsmithred: I don't think I can downgrade from ceres to ascii without reinstalling everything |
| 22:51.55 | DeeEff | which sounds like more of a pain |
| 22:51.55 | DeeEff | seems awesome previously depended on dbus-x11 |
| 22:51.59 | DeeEff | and I don't see it moving off of X11 anytime soon |
| 22:52.08 | DeeEff | now it depends on default-dbus-session-bus |
| 22:52.37 | DeeEff | honestly I would suggest just providing a virtual package dbus-session-bus that installs dbus-x11 |
| 22:52.44 | fsmithred | I just posted how to downgrade, and yeah, it would probably be a painful experience. |
| 22:52.44 | DeeEff | this way the problem is resolved since the interface is the same regardless |
| 22:52.57 | fsmithred | oh |
| 22:52.59 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 22:53.24 | fsmithred | can you make a dummy package and tell us if it works? |
| 22:53.35 | DeeEff | fsmithred: how does one do that? |
| 22:53.37 | fsmithred | you can install dbus-x11 manually. |
| 22:53.58 | fsmithred | yeah, I have to remember the right words. |
| 22:54.01 | DeeEff | like compile from source? |
| 22:54.02 | fsmithred | equivs |
| 22:54.04 | fsmithred | no |
| 22:54.09 | fsmithred | install equivs |
| 22:54.14 | fsmithred | follow the directions |
| 22:54.20 | fsmithred | it's really easy. |
| 22:54.55 | DeeEff | fsmithred: directions where? |
| 22:54.57 | fsmithred | it's an empty package that lets all the other packages think the real one is installed |
| 22:55.09 | fsmithred | I think 'man equivs' |
| 22:55.35 | fsmithred | you enter a few things in a config file and I think a changelog, and run a command. |
| 22:55.40 | KatolaZ | DeeEff: I guess they should add it to the deps |
| 22:55.43 | KatolaZ | with an | |
| 22:55.43 | DeeEff | okay, so install equivs, and make a dummy package that depends on dbus-x11 that marks dbus-session-bus as installed? |
| 22:56.10 | *** join/#devuan Motge (~Mot@mueller-martin.net) |
| 22:56.21 | fsmithred | I guess you could do it that way. I would not add any depends and install dbus-x11 manually |
| 22:56.25 | fsmithred | just to see that it works |
| 22:56.30 | DeeEff | KatolaZ: that's also an option but many packages pulled automatically from debian or that work on debian but don't use any dbus functionality (looking at you Electron apps) also require that same step |
| 22:56.33 | DeeEff | it's easier just to provide a dummy package for dbus-session-bus |
| 22:56.36 | KatolaZ | DeeEff: just a package that Provides: dbus-session-bus and Depends: dbus-x11 |
| 22:56.37 | DeeEff | fsmithred: suppose I'll try it |
| 22:56.44 | DeeEff | I'll have to reboot first though |
| 23:04.33 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing1 (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-225.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:10.15 | DeeEff | oh man |
| 23:10.27 | DeeEff | creating an empty package providing dbus-session-bus worked |
| 23:10.30 | DeeEff | well then |
| 23:10.36 | DeeEff | thanks guys |
| 23:11.08 | KatolaZ | DeeEff: it should also Depends: dbus-x11, right? |
| 23:11.27 | DeeEff | yes |
| 23:11.39 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 23:11.46 | KatolaZ | we could include it in ceres, BTW |
| 23:12.35 | *** part/#devuan msiism (~devdoc@dslb-178-000-243-028.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 23:15.45 | DeeEff | KatolaZ: that may help others |
| 23:16.09 | DeeEff | that said, do you just want the control file I used to generate it? |
| 23:17.00 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 23:25.07 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 23:32.08 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.97.78) |
| 23:39.34 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 23:46.13 | *** join/#devuan sammi` (sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-edocyoqntydkqvkw) |
| 23:53.40 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@46.19.140.18) |