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01:20.10 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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11:42.32 | FlibberTGibbet | anything in jessie backports for upgrading the kernel to something patched for the intel bugs, or am i looking at upgrading to ascii? |
11:43.11 | Humpelstilzchen | FlibberTGibbet: debian has announced kernel update to jessie-security |
11:43.29 | FlibberTGibbet | thanks Humpelstilzchen |
11:43.51 | FlibberTGibbet | does that mean it's in place or anticipated? |
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11:44.50 | Humpelstilzchen | FlibberTGibbet: still to do, I have not seen the update yet |
11:44.54 | Humpelstilzchen | https://www.debian.org/security/2018/dsa-4078 |
11:45.06 | FlibberTGibbet | thanks for the link Humpelstilzchen |
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11:51.20 | FlibberTGibbet | little puzzled that i can see 3.16 and 4.9.0 listed when i type apt-cache show linux-image-amd64 but upgrade sticks at 3.16. how to force apt-get install to use the newer package? |
11:51.48 | Humpelstilzchen | FlibberTGibbet: pastebin apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64 |
11:53.15 | FlibberTGibbet | https://pastebin.com/U6t9T3DT |
11:53.44 | Humpelstilzchen | FlibberTGibbet: policy not show |
11:53.51 | FlibberTGibbet | sorry. one sec |
11:54.34 | FlibberTGibbet | https://pastebin.com/3zqeZzwC |
11:54.58 | FlibberTGibbet | t'other is in backports so guess i'd have to forced that to install |
11:55.03 | FlibberTGibbet | s/forced/force |
11:55.21 | Humpelstilzchen | yes, see https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ |
11:56.01 | FlibberTGibbet | thanks |
11:56.53 | Humpelstilzchen | FlibberTGibbet: remember that there are no security updates for backports guaranteed |
11:56.56 | FlibberTGibbet | -t jessie-backports is working by the looks of it |
11:57.42 | FlibberTGibbet | yes Humpelstilzchen. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on the debian security page or investigate an ascii upgrade when i'm feeling brave enough on this server |
12:01.53 | FlibberTGibbet | thanks Humpelstilzchen - now running 4.9 and will keep an eye on the security page |
12:03.39 | FlibberTGibbet | ah. meltdown is already fixed in 4.9 according to the checking script here: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/check-linux-server-for-spectre-meltdown-vulnerability/ |
12:03.45 | FlibberTGibbet | nice! |
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16:20.15 | golinux | FlibberTGibbet: #devuan-wiki |
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17:26.49 | Humpelstilzchen | FlibberTGibbet: looks like there is a new jessie kernel, I just havn't checked the cve numbers yet |
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18:21.06 | nemo | hm. no dmidecode package in devuan? |
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18:25.46 | chillfan | there should be? |
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18:26.40 | chillfan | check your sources.list see if you're missing anything |
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18:32.17 | jonadab | My apt-cache search says dmidecode - SMBIOS/DMI table decoder |
18:32.25 | jonadab | As well as several related packages. |
18:32.37 | jonadab | (This is on jessie.) |
18:32.39 | chillfan | that should be the right package |
18:33.54 | KatolaZ | nemo: apt-cache policy dmidecode |
18:34.05 | KatolaZ | dmidecode: |
18:34.05 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
18:34.05 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
18:34.05 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
18:34.05 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
18:34.07 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
18:34.10 | KatolaZ | <PROTECTED> |
18:38.05 | nemo | ahhh |
18:38.07 | nemo | ascii again |
18:38.17 | nemo | jonadab: huh. weird |
18:38.38 | nemo | oh. haha. n/m was just being dumb |
18:39.51 | KatolaZ | nemo: it should be in jessie as well |
18:39.53 | nemo | typo when doing the install, didn't notice. and also fact that by default /usr/sbin/dmidecode is not in the user path |
18:39.56 | nemo | even if user is an admin |
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19:08.23 | unixman | nemo, Hmm. I see /usr/sbin in the path for root here: |
19:08.24 | unixman | root@ealexdevuan64:~# printf "$PATH\n" |
19:08.43 | unixman | <PROTECTED> |
19:08.50 | nemo | unixman: yeah. I was an admin user, not root ⺠|
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19:09.07 | nemo | unixman: on ubuntu by default /usr/sbin was in my path so I had "not found" and then typed in the apt-get install stupidly |
19:09.14 | nemo | no biggie |
19:11.14 | unixman | If "admin users" need privileged commands, then that path can be added to their bash profiles. Frankly, I am only familiar with being root or not being root. We do not use "admin users" that are not root in our company. |
19:12.50 | KatolaZ | nemo: it has been like that in Debian for the best part of the last 15 years |
19:13.04 | KatolaZ | you can just add /sbin and /usr/sbin to PATH |
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19:17.41 | nemo | KatolaZ: yeah, I'm just unfamiliar w/ debian unfortunately |
19:17.46 | nemo | silly mistake is all. |
19:18.13 | nemo | no point in changing it, will just remember it |
19:19.04 | KatolaZ | nemo: np |
19:19.05 | KatolaZ | :) |
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19:49.49 | Hestben | Hey guys! Shouldn't there be a new kernel for me to upgrade to? jessie-security doesn't give me any newer than Debian 3.16.51-3 (2017-12-13) |
19:51.15 | nemo | Hestben: there was a 4.9 in backports |
19:51.31 | nemo | Hestben: I tried it last week, although due to a stupid UEFI bug it promptly crashed and corrupted my HD |
19:51.44 | nemo | (stupid UEFI bug locally, that is patched upstream but wasn't in the backports) |
19:52.00 | nemo | s/patched/kernel patch to work around stupid broken uefi/ |
19:53.29 | specing | lol |
19:54.30 | Hestben | nemo: OK, I will stay away from backports for a while then |
19:54.56 | Hestben | debian has a patched kernel for jessie, so I expected to have it on devuan jessie as well. |
19:55.49 | nemo | Hestben: eh. I'm gonna guess this particular thing is specific to my stupid laptop over here |
19:55.54 | nepugia | depends on your efi... i have used 4.9 backports kernel with efi and it worked fine for me |
19:56.25 | nemo | nepugia: yeah. as noted, this was a broken lame implementation of UEFI here that poor kernel guys had to patch around, but was still a nasty shock when it corrupted everything |
19:57.21 | nemo | nepugia: I'm preeeetty sure the "ascii" kernel has it fixed, just have to doublecheck when I have some time and am in front of the machine again |
19:58.03 | nemo | nepugia: essentially they sanity check some available memory value instead of blindly trusting UEFI and scribbling over important stuff |
19:58.48 | nepugia | huh, i wouldn't trust efi either way ;) |
19:59.52 | nemo | that would be my personal bias, but unfortunately kinda hard to find laptops what don't require EFI these days |
19:59.58 | specing | easy |
20:00.34 | specing | you buy a librebooted x200/t400 |
20:01.00 | nepugia | the lenovo laptop i have does have "legacy booting", but eh dunno, i really doubt that you will get many "good" laptops without efi |
20:01.05 | specing | not only it doesen't have EFI, but it also has GRUB burned into bios flash and you can do PGP secure boot |
20:01.41 | nepugia | i wouldnt trust grub either :) |
20:01.55 | vivus | libreboot would be the ideal IIRC |
20:02.58 | nemo | specing: hm. looks like a 50% markup, not including shipping |
20:03.10 | nemo | nepugia: funny. I just bought a lenovo too |
20:03.34 | nemo | nepugia: has legacy booting but wasn't sure what would happen to the windows boot which I wanted to keep around in case my SO needed it |
20:03.41 | specing | nemo: goes to fund libreboot dev |
20:03.41 | nemo | nepugia: hm. what's your lenovo model? |
20:03.52 | specing | nemo: used to be 700 eur for one |
20:03.58 | nemo | specing: yeeeah, I'm like... $20k in debt now, not including the house. |
20:04.16 | nemo | specing: I donate to EFF and all, but for FOSS, I'm gonna stick w/ contributing time and code ⺠|
20:04.24 | specing | vivus: it is, I have 3 librebooted laptops |
20:04.37 | nemo | specing: it's a pretty cool idea tho. maybe if I get a personal laptop |
20:04.43 | specing | well 2, one is in queue |
20:04.46 | nepugia | 110-15ACL ideapad with amd hardware |
20:05.06 | nemo | specing: wonder how much shipping would be to the united states |
20:05.20 | nemo | nepugia: hers is AMD too. |
20:05.25 | nemo | model name : AMD A12-9720P RADEON R7, 12 COMPUTE CORES 4C+8G |
20:06.01 | nemo | Version: Lenovo ideapad 320-15ABR |
20:06.30 | nemo | nepugia: currently having wifi and touchpad issues, so fixing that is on the todo, just thinking I need to get on ascii first |
20:06.58 | specing | nemo: 0 if you get one locally |
20:07.05 | nemo | specing: interesting. |
20:07.10 | nemo | specing: that would help the price a lot |
20:07.15 | specing | indeed |
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20:07.25 | nepugia | my wifi doesnt work reliably even with backports ascii kernel, so have fun fixing that :p |
20:07.38 | nemo | uhoh |
20:07.48 | nemo | nepugia: well. I found a forum where someone w/ same issue posted a patch |
20:07.54 | nemo | same issue/model |
20:07.57 | nemo | so I was gonna try that first |
20:07.59 | vivus | specing: are those refurbs affected by spectre and meltdown? |
20:08.10 | nepugia | mine needs them non-free realtek firmware too though |
20:08.13 | specing | vivus: of course, everything is |
20:08.18 | nemo | nepugia: 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 10) |
20:08.21 | nemo | <PROTECTED> |
20:08.26 | nepugia | @vivus why shoult't they? |
20:08.37 | nemo | nepugia: but we'll see - that's kinda last resort |
20:08.41 | nemo | nepugia: non-free might be safer |
20:08.42 | vivus | are the software patches enough? I see Lenovo pushed firmware updates via windoze |
20:08.58 | nemo | nepugia: where did you get the package for that? |
20:09.27 | nemo | vivus: well, at least nepugia and I are safe due to AMD - almost everything in my house is AMD actually |
20:09.49 | nemo | the raspberry pi folks claim they are spectre safe, but meltdown supposedly impacts arm64 too... |
20:09.56 | nepugia | back when i got it was from debian testing (stretch) |
20:09.57 | nemo | vivus: well, safe from meltdown, not spectre |
20:10.16 | nemo | spectre is a bit harder to exploit tho... and I don't give it as many opportunities ⺠been trying to educate the family |
20:10.35 | nemo | oh. speaking of. debian supposedly has microcode mitigation - does devuan have that too? |
20:10.48 | vivus | it's not surprising that hardware flaws have been found. intel have always claimed hardware flaws are difficult (though they never said impossible) |
20:10.54 | nepugia | as in the firmware i needed was only in testing afaik, was later in backports for jessie i think |
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21:27.42 | minnesotags | How does the popcon work? |
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21:32.14 | minnesotags | For reporting devuan, I mean |
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21:37.06 | KatolaZ | minnesotags |
21:37.10 | KatolaZ | gone |
21:37.54 | KatolaZ | http://popcon.devuan.org/readme.html |
21:38.04 | KatolaZ | I leave it here, just in case |
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22:38.38 | msiism | what's the standard kernel version in devuan ascii? 4.9? |
22:43.46 | KatolaZ | msiism: 4.9 |
22:43.58 | msiism | KatolaZ: thanks. |
22:44.16 | KatolaZ | msiism: ascii-backports has 4.13 and 4.14 |
22:45.04 | msiism | and would anyone know an efficient way to find out what is the oldest (or some of the oldest) hardware that kernel still supports? |
22:46.05 | msiism | (trying to evaluate linux's conservancy level) |
22:46.30 | debdog | linux generally or the debian/devuan specific kernel? |
22:47.02 | msiism | debdog: the latter (if there should be any difference) |
22:47.05 | debdog | in linux itself drivers usuall do not get removed |
22:47.13 | msiism | they don't? |
22:47.19 | msiism | ok, didn't know that |
22:47.53 | debdog | the difference is the available options in vanilla vs. the options used to build a kernel |
22:48.40 | KatolaZ | msiism: the oldest supported hw is probably still an i386 :) |
22:48.50 | debdog | so, in general, use vanilla source, run [x|menu|something]config and search for hardware/modul |
22:49.17 | KatolaZ | even if I doubt that anything more modern than a 2.2 would still run on an i386 |
22:49.30 | debdog | for packaged kernel, do the same but load its config file, usually stored in /boot |
22:50.15 | debdog | well, and check whether that specific hardware is built inm built as module or neither |
22:50.32 | debdog | s/inm/in,/ |
22:51.38 | msiism | debdog: ok, i could try that. but how would i efficiently search for the oldest stuff in there? |
22:51.56 | msiism | maybe i could go with a commit date. |
22:52.24 | msiism | but that's not in the config, afaik. |
22:52.57 | fsmithred | current kernel expects the processor to be able to handle pae, if that's any help. (But there's a way around that, too.) |
22:53.40 | debdog | hmm, sort by date, hmm, no clue |
22:54.33 | KatolaZ | msiism: what are you looking for, exactly? |
22:54.40 | debdog | prolly some git-fu (if the pre-git commits are merged properly) |
22:55.48 | msiism | KatolaZ: i was looking for a shiny example of an extreme case of long-term hw support on linux that you could give to people and say: take that to your win or mac world and see if it compares. |
22:56.34 | debdog | it still has ISA support, if enabled. check for some old ISA hardware |
22:56.56 | msiism | debdog: ok, i'll look into that |
22:56.57 | fsmithred | qemu emulates a PII and I just booted 4.9 with it. |
22:57.03 | debdog | like ancient coax-network interfaces |
22:57.18 | KatolaZ | it still has MCA support |
22:57.39 | KatolaZ | hold on msiism |
22:58.56 | fsmithred | For the win people, just give them a word doc from 1993 and see if they can open it. |
22:59.08 | debdog | hehe |
23:00.52 | msiism | fsmithred: which implies that you could do it on linux. but if you would use libre office that wouldn't count, since you could install it on win, right? also, a .doc software. |
23:01.11 | msiism | is... |
23:02.25 | fsmithred | can libreoffice handle those ok? |
23:02.41 | msiism | fsmithred: no idea. |
23:02.56 | msiism | i thought that was where you were going |
23:03.28 | fsmithred | if so, you would need to look at the ancestry of libreoffice <-- openoffice.org <-- star office |
23:03.47 | fsmithred | I guess that wasn't linux, though |
23:04.09 | msiism | fsmithred: no. i've used star office on win as a kid. |
23:04.16 | fsmithred | oh |
23:04.29 | fsmithred | I thought it started on solaris |
23:04.50 | KatolaZ | msiism: https://cateee.net/lkddb/ |
23:05.31 | msiism | fsmithred: well, that would make sense and i remember reading sth about that. |
23:05.42 | fsmithred | check with n4dir when he's around. I'm pretty sure he still has a PIII |
23:05.45 | KatolaZ | msiism: https://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/ |
23:06.17 | msiism | KatolaZ: this is great! thanks. |
23:06.26 | KatolaZ | yw |
23:06.55 | fsmithred | you know the apple fanboys will laugh at you for caring about old hardware, right? |
23:07.17 | msiism | so i'll just find saomething there and then check back if it's also in the devuan packaged kernel |
23:08.04 | msiism | fsmithred: i guess so, but i don't care. last time i used a laptop (a week ago), it was a pentium 4m with no wireless support from like 10 years ago. |
23:08.33 | msiism | fsmithred: even ran TDE on that and it was pretty much ok speed-wise |
23:08.58 | KatolaZ | msiism: there must be an older version of that db, though |
23:09.00 | fsmithred | I've got a dell laptop that's about that old |
23:09.06 | fsmithred | works fine |
23:09.25 | fsmithred | dual-core pentium from around the time of the first core2-duo |
23:10.18 | msiism | i mean, i'm not an as-old-as-it-gets nerd, but it's nice to see you don't have to throw things away just because os vedor so and so says so. |
23:11.34 | fsmithred | yes, if you can find someone with a 5-10 year old machine who will let you install linux for them, they'll be amazed at how fast you made their computer. |
23:12.05 | fsmithred | afk for awhile |
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23:47.08 | sgage | I have a 10-year-old Intel Dual Pentium 2180 at 2 GHz, 4 GB RAm, and ascii runs like a champ, |
23:47.49 | sgage | along with all the other software I prefer. If this thing goes another few years, I'm good with that. |
23:48.29 | sgage | I don't tend to buy new computers until the old one unequivocally dies. |