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01:20.10*** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/
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11:42.32FlibberTGibbetanything in jessie backports for upgrading the kernel to something patched for the intel bugs, or am i looking at upgrading to ascii?
11:43.11HumpelstilzchenFlibberTGibbet: debian has announced kernel update to jessie-security
11:43.29FlibberTGibbetthanks Humpelstilzchen
11:43.51FlibberTGibbetdoes that mean it's in place or anticipated?
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11:44.50HumpelstilzchenFlibberTGibbet: still to do, I have not seen the update yet
11:44.54Humpelstilzchenhttps://www.debian.org/security/2018/dsa-4078
11:45.06FlibberTGibbetthanks for the link Humpelstilzchen
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11:51.20FlibberTGibbetlittle puzzled that i can see 3.16 and 4.9.0 listed when i type apt-cache show linux-image-amd64 but upgrade sticks at 3.16. how to force apt-get install to use the newer package?
11:51.48HumpelstilzchenFlibberTGibbet: pastebin apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64
11:53.15FlibberTGibbethttps://pastebin.com/U6t9T3DT
11:53.44HumpelstilzchenFlibberTGibbet: policy not show
11:53.51FlibberTGibbetsorry. one sec
11:54.34FlibberTGibbethttps://pastebin.com/3zqeZzwC
11:54.58FlibberTGibbett'other is in backports so guess i'd have to forced that to install
11:55.03FlibberTGibbets/forced/force
11:55.21Humpelstilzchenyes, see https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
11:56.01FlibberTGibbetthanks
11:56.53HumpelstilzchenFlibberTGibbet: remember that there are no security updates for backports guaranteed
11:56.56FlibberTGibbet-t jessie-backports is working by the looks of it
11:57.42FlibberTGibbetyes Humpelstilzchen. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on the debian security page or investigate an ascii upgrade when i'm feeling brave enough on this server
12:01.53FlibberTGibbetthanks Humpelstilzchen - now running 4.9 and will keep an eye on the security page
12:03.39FlibberTGibbetah. meltdown is already fixed in 4.9 according to the checking script here: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/check-linux-server-for-spectre-meltdown-vulnerability/
12:03.45FlibberTGibbetnice!
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16:20.15golinuxFlibberTGibbet: #devuan-wiki
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17:26.49HumpelstilzchenFlibberTGibbet: looks like there is a new jessie kernel, I just havn't checked the cve numbers yet
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18:21.06nemohm. no dmidecode package in devuan?
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18:25.46chillfanthere should be?
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18:26.40chillfancheck your sources.list see if you're missing anything
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18:32.17jonadabMy apt-cache search says dmidecode - SMBIOS/DMI table decoder
18:32.25jonadabAs well as several related packages.
18:32.37jonadab(This is on jessie.)
18:32.39chillfanthat should be the right package
18:33.54KatolaZnemo: apt-cache policy dmidecode
18:34.05KatolaZdmidecode:
18:34.05KatolaZ<PROTECTED>
18:34.05KatolaZ<PROTECTED>
18:34.05KatolaZ<PROTECTED>
18:34.05KatolaZ<PROTECTED>
18:34.07KatolaZ<PROTECTED>
18:34.10KatolaZ<PROTECTED>
18:38.05nemoahhh
18:38.07nemoascii again
18:38.17nemojonadab: huh. weird
18:38.38nemooh. haha. n/m was just being dumb
18:39.51KatolaZnemo: it should be in jessie as well
18:39.53nemotypo when doing the install, didn't notice.   and also fact that by default /usr/sbin/dmidecode is not in the user path
18:39.56nemoeven if user is an admin
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19:08.23unixmannemo, Hmm. I see /usr/sbin in the path for root here:
19:08.24unixmanroot@ealexdevuan64:~# printf "$PATH\n"
19:08.43unixman<PROTECTED>
19:08.50nemounixman: yeah. I was an admin user, not root ☺
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19:09.07nemounixman: on ubuntu by default /usr/sbin was in my path so I had "not found" and then typed in the apt-get install stupidly
19:09.14nemono biggie
19:11.14unixmanIf "admin users" need privileged commands, then that path can be added to their bash profiles. Frankly, I am only familiar with being root or not being root. We do not use "admin users" that are not root in our company.
19:12.50KatolaZnemo: it has been like that in Debian for the best part of the last 15 years
19:13.04KatolaZyou can just add /sbin and /usr/sbin to PATH
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19:17.41nemoKatolaZ: yeah, I'm just unfamiliar w/ debian unfortunately
19:17.46nemosilly mistake is all.
19:18.13nemono point in changing it, will just remember it
19:19.04KatolaZnemo: np
19:19.05KatolaZ:)
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19:49.49HestbenHey guys! Shouldn't there be a new kernel for me to upgrade to? jessie-security doesn't give me any newer than Debian 3.16.51-3 (2017-12-13)
19:51.15nemoHestben: there was a 4.9 in backports
19:51.31nemoHestben: I tried it last week, although due to a stupid UEFI bug it promptly crashed and corrupted my HD
19:51.44nemo(stupid UEFI bug locally, that is patched upstream but wasn't in the backports)
19:52.00nemos/patched/kernel patch to work around stupid broken uefi/
19:53.29specinglol
19:54.30Hestbennemo: OK, I will stay away from backports for a while then
19:54.56Hestbendebian has a patched kernel for jessie, so I expected to have it on devuan jessie as well.
19:55.49nemoHestben: eh. I'm gonna guess this particular thing is specific to my stupid laptop over here
19:55.54nepugiadepends on your efi... i have used 4.9 backports kernel with efi and it worked fine for me
19:56.25nemonepugia: yeah. as noted, this was a broken lame implementation of UEFI here that poor kernel guys had to patch around, but was still a nasty shock when it corrupted everything
19:57.21nemonepugia: I'm preeeetty sure the "ascii" kernel has it fixed, just have to doublecheck when I have some time and am in front of the machine again
19:58.03nemonepugia: essentially they sanity check some available memory value instead of blindly trusting UEFI and scribbling over important stuff
19:58.48nepugiahuh, i wouldn't trust efi either way ;)
19:59.52nemothat would be my personal bias, but unfortunately kinda hard to find laptops what don't require EFI these days
19:59.58specingeasy
20:00.34specingyou buy a librebooted x200/t400
20:01.00nepugiathe lenovo laptop i have does have "legacy booting", but eh dunno, i really doubt that you will get many "good" laptops without efi
20:01.05specingnot only it doesen't have EFI, but it also has GRUB burned into bios flash and you can do PGP secure boot
20:01.41nepugiai wouldnt trust grub either :)
20:01.55vivuslibreboot would be the ideal IIRC
20:02.58nemospecing: hm. looks like a 50% markup, not including shipping
20:03.10nemonepugia: funny. I just bought a lenovo too
20:03.34nemonepugia: has legacy booting but wasn't sure what would happen to the windows boot which I wanted to keep around in case my SO needed it
20:03.41specingnemo: goes to fund libreboot dev
20:03.41nemonepugia: hm. what's your lenovo model?
20:03.52specingnemo: used to be 700 eur for one
20:03.58nemospecing: yeeeah, I'm like... $20k in debt now, not including the house.
20:04.16nemospecing: I donate to EFF and all, but for FOSS, I'm gonna stick w/ contributing time and code ☺
20:04.24specingvivus: it is, I have 3 librebooted laptops
20:04.37nemospecing: it's a pretty cool idea tho.  maybe if I get a personal laptop
20:04.43specingwell 2, one is in queue
20:04.46nepugia110-15ACL ideapad with amd hardware
20:05.06nemospecing: wonder how much shipping would be to the united states
20:05.20nemonepugia: hers is AMD too.
20:05.25nemomodel name      : AMD A12-9720P RADEON R7, 12 COMPUTE CORES 4C+8G
20:06.01nemoVersion: Lenovo ideapad 320-15ABR
20:06.30nemonepugia: currently having wifi and touchpad issues, so fixing that is on the todo, just thinking I need to get on ascii first
20:06.58specingnemo: 0 if you get one locally
20:07.05nemospecing: interesting.
20:07.10nemospecing: that would help the price a lot
20:07.15specingindeed
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20:07.25nepugiamy wifi doesnt work reliably even with backports ascii kernel, so have fun fixing that :p
20:07.38nemouhoh
20:07.48nemonepugia: well. I found a forum where someone w/ same issue posted a patch
20:07.54nemosame issue/model
20:07.57nemoso I was gonna try that first
20:07.59vivusspecing: are those refurbs affected by spectre and meltdown?
20:08.10nepugiamine needs them non-free realtek firmware too though
20:08.13specingvivus: of course, everything is
20:08.18nemonepugia: 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 10)
20:08.21nemo<PROTECTED>
20:08.26nepugia@vivus why shoult't they?
20:08.37nemonepugia: but we'll see - that's kinda last resort
20:08.41nemonepugia: non-free might be safer
20:08.42vivusare the software patches enough? I see Lenovo pushed firmware updates via windoze
20:08.58nemonepugia: where did you get the package for that?
20:09.27nemovivus: well, at least nepugia and I are safe due to AMD - almost everything in my house is AMD actually
20:09.49nemothe raspberry pi folks claim they are spectre safe, but meltdown supposedly impacts arm64 too...
20:09.56nepugiaback when i got it was from debian testing (stretch)
20:09.57nemovivus: well, safe from meltdown, not spectre
20:10.16nemospectre is a bit harder to exploit tho... and I don't give it as many opportunities ☺  been trying to educate the family
20:10.35nemooh. speaking of. debian supposedly has microcode mitigation - does devuan have that too?
20:10.48vivusit's not surprising that hardware flaws have been found. intel have always claimed hardware flaws are difficult (though they never said impossible)
20:10.54nepugiaas in the firmware i needed was only in testing afaik, was later in backports for jessie i think
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21:27.42minnesotagsHow does the popcon work?
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21:32.14minnesotagsFor reporting devuan, I mean
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21:37.06KatolaZminnesotags
21:37.10KatolaZgone
21:37.54KatolaZhttp://popcon.devuan.org/readme.html
21:38.04KatolaZI leave it here, just in case
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22:38.38msiismwhat's the standard kernel version in devuan ascii? 4.9?
22:43.46KatolaZmsiism: 4.9
22:43.58msiismKatolaZ: thanks.
22:44.16KatolaZmsiism: ascii-backports has 4.13 and 4.14
22:45.04msiismand would anyone know an efficient way to find out what is the oldest (or some of the oldest) hardware that kernel still supports?
22:46.05msiism(trying to evaluate linux's conservancy level)
22:46.30debdoglinux generally or the debian/devuan specific kernel?
22:47.02msiismdebdog: the latter (if there should be any difference)
22:47.05debdogin linux itself drivers usuall do not get removed
22:47.13msiismthey don't?
22:47.19msiismok, didn't know that
22:47.53debdogthe difference is the available options in vanilla vs. the options used to build a kernel
22:48.40KatolaZmsiism: the oldest supported hw is probably still an i386 :)
22:48.50debdogso, in general, use vanilla source, run [x|menu|something]config and search for hardware/modul
22:49.17KatolaZeven if I doubt that anything more modern than a 2.2 would still run on an i386
22:49.30debdogfor packaged kernel, do the same but load its config file, usually stored in /boot
22:50.15debdogwell, and check whether that specific hardware is built inm built as module or neither
22:50.32debdogs/inm/in,/
22:51.38msiismdebdog: ok, i could try that. but how would i efficiently search for the oldest stuff in there?
22:51.56msiismmaybe i could go with a commit date.
22:52.24msiismbut that's not in the config, afaik.
22:52.57fsmithredcurrent kernel expects the processor to be able to handle pae, if that's any help. (But there's a way around that, too.)
22:53.40debdoghmm, sort by date, hmm, no clue
22:54.33KatolaZmsiism: what are you looking for, exactly?
22:54.40debdogprolly some git-fu (if the pre-git commits are merged properly)
22:55.48msiismKatolaZ:  i was looking for a shiny example of an extreme case of long-term hw support on linux that you could give to people and say: take that to your win or mac world and see if it compares.
22:56.34debdogit still has ISA support, if enabled. check for some old ISA hardware
22:56.56msiismdebdog: ok, i'll look into that
22:56.57fsmithredqemu emulates a PII and I just booted 4.9 with it.
22:57.03debdoglike ancient coax-network interfaces
22:57.18KatolaZit still has MCA support
22:57.39KatolaZhold on msiism
22:58.56fsmithredFor the win people, just give them a word doc from 1993 and see if they can open it.
22:59.08debdoghehe
23:00.52msiismfsmithred: which implies that you could do it on linux. but if you would use libre office that wouldn't count, since you could install it on win, right? also, a .doc software.
23:01.11msiismis...
23:02.25fsmithredcan libreoffice handle those ok?
23:02.41msiismfsmithred: no idea.
23:02.56msiismi thought that was where you were going
23:03.28fsmithredif so, you would need to look at the ancestry of libreoffice <-- openoffice.org <-- star office
23:03.47fsmithredI guess that wasn't linux, though
23:04.09msiismfsmithred: no. i've used star office on win as a kid.
23:04.16fsmithredoh
23:04.29fsmithredI thought it started on solaris
23:04.50KatolaZmsiism: https://cateee.net/lkddb/
23:05.31msiismfsmithred: well, that would make sense and i remember reading sth about that.
23:05.42fsmithredcheck with n4dir when he's around. I'm pretty sure he still has a PIII
23:05.45KatolaZmsiism: https://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/
23:06.17msiismKatolaZ: this is great! thanks.
23:06.26KatolaZyw
23:06.55fsmithredyou know the apple fanboys will laugh at you for caring about old hardware, right?
23:07.17msiismso i'll just find saomething there and then check back if it's also in the devuan packaged kernel
23:08.04msiismfsmithred: i guess so, but i don't care. last time i used a laptop (a week ago), it was a pentium 4m with no wireless support from like 10 years ago.
23:08.33msiismfsmithred: even ran TDE on that and it was pretty much ok speed-wise
23:08.58KatolaZmsiism: there must be an older version of that db, though
23:09.00fsmithredI've got a dell laptop that's about that old
23:09.06fsmithredworks fine
23:09.25fsmithreddual-core pentium from around the time of the first core2-duo
23:10.18msiismi mean, i'm not an as-old-as-it-gets nerd, but it's nice to see you don't have to throw things away just because os vedor so and so says so.
23:11.34fsmithredyes, if you can find someone with a 5-10 year old machine who will let you install linux for them, they'll be amazed at how fast you made their computer.
23:12.05fsmithredafk for awhile
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23:47.08sgageI have a 10-year-old Intel Dual Pentium 2180 at 2 GHz, 4 GB RAm, and ascii runs like a champ,
23:47.49sgagealong with all the other software I prefer. If this thing goes another few years, I'm good with that.
23:48.29sgageI don't tend to buy new computers until the old one unequivocally dies.

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