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| 01:19.26 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 02:34.50 | minnesotags | good grief. If anybody had only told me how easy Let's Encrypt is..... |
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| 03:52.31 | jonadab | It's easier now than it was at first. |
| 03:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still don't like it. Since too many users of LE confuse encryption with authentication and LE definitely can't provide the latter |
| 03:57.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | also it makes life more combersome for those using decent authenticated certificates and those who care about azthentication of the servers they connect to. Particularly cert pinning becomes futile |
| 04:03.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | for devuan infra I'm not sure a single LE cert update worked flawlessly so for on all servers, without manual intervention and periods of expired certs |
| 04:05.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then I think they still have no wildcard certs either, though they promised to come up with those this year? |
| 04:09.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when you think about it, encryption doesn't make any sense at all for most sites either |
| 04:22.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's for example look at download of devuan images: the IP already points not only to devuan but actually to the subdomain. Hiding what you do there? Neither, a simple statistical analysis of your traffic and counting the bytes even can reveal which particular image you downloaded. And authenticity of the downloaded image? big misconception since - as already mentioned - LE can't assert authentication, any MITM attack is out of scope |
| 04:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | for what LE certs are covering |
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| 05:02.33 | bozonius | honestly not sure if I follow this, and I've read it 3x now. In order to count downloaded bytes, one would have to have a mitm, right? |
| 05:03.15 | bozonius | (keep in mind, I know little to nothing about security. I do my best, but I am no expert.) |
| 05:04.16 | bozonius | how does LE compare to "standard" (openssl?) tools -- why does it matter for site certs and such? |
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| 06:10.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | lets start with "why would you want https:// ?" |
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| 06:12.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, every ISP usually counts bytes of your traffic |
| 06:13.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | if not for your dataplan then at least for their own service optimization and business plan purposes |
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| 06:14.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | your computer counts bytes, see `ifconfig`, and likewise does the next router your ISP connected you to |
| 06:20.49 | gnarface | bozonius: the difference is more in the chain of trust than the tools themselves. if you make your own ssl key with openssl and make sure you can personally identify it, then there's no difference between that and a professionally issued commercial cert - to you |
| 06:21.16 | gnarface | bozonius: also, the only difference between a "mitm" and your ISP is a similarly nebulous expectation of trust |
| 06:22.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | certs originaly were about authenticatuin, the highest level ones even assured that the person/company is legit and address is correct. Encryption been only a necessary supplementary "effect" to ensure nobody tampers with the data transmitted via authenticated verified connection |
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| 06:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | LE now hands out the lowest possible verification level certs (basically no authenticity verification at all) and does so for free, thus removing the last minimal hurdle for rogue script kiddies to mess with fraudulent certs. For the unclear benefit to have *encryption* remember? a side effect of certs) in everything |
| 06:31.59 | rrq | ... and encapsulation/protection of the transmitted data (clear benefit?) |
| 06:38.39 | gnarface | well it might still combat some forms of censorship and non-state-actor identity theft |
| 06:39.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, LE is totally pointless against identity theft |
| 06:40.07 | gnarface | but, that said, i think the trust businesses had in those certificate issuance agencies to begin with would probably have evaporated quickly if execs realized that companies like Verisign were just passing the buck off to the credit card companies and doing almost no identity verification on their own |
| 06:40.43 | gnarface | no, LE is not pointless against account theft. it'll still prevent other people at the coffee shop from hijacking your session cookie. |
| 06:41.07 | gnarface | (and other such types of identity theft that involve local network snooping) |
| 06:41.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | for script kiddies maybe |
| 06:41.58 | gnarface | right like i said, non-state-sponsored |
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| 06:42.19 | gnarface | MOST of these identity theft aggressors are just script kiddies |
| 06:42.50 | gnarface | it's who they're selling the stolen information to bulk that have the real money to do real evil |
| 06:43.55 | gnarface | but now that net neutrality laws have been repealed, the ISPs have basically just cut those script kiddies out of the loop |
| 06:44.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | if I have an account worth stealing with an entity hosting that account that doesn't consider a commercial cert worth paying for, then maybe I rather would think twice if I *want* that account |
| 06:45.06 | gnarface | and as you should. but most casual computer users wouldn't even notice encryption was off. |
| 06:45.41 | gnarface | moreover, when presented with the argument that they should, they would respond with resentment out of a sense of betrayal |
| 06:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and still, most websites you visit are not ones you have any account with |
| 06:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for those encryption is basically BS, unless they are wikipedia or google where you can search and find everything from childporn to anarchism |
| 06:48.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I see why people wouldn't want 3rd party knowing what they searcged for and read on wikipedia or google |
| 06:49.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | but to come back to my example: for devuan image downloads encryption is just a waste of CPU cycles |
| 06:50.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless paired with a strong cert |
| 06:51.39 | gnarface | well, that's only assuming people actually use the checksums, and the checksums themselves weren't transmitted in the clear and therefore also forgeable in-transit |
| 06:52.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, assuming a LE cert would do anything for data integrity in this case is naive, that's the point. checksums are an orthogonal measure |
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| 06:53.51 | gnarface | well, i disagree, but i think that's because i've actually put some thought into it |
| 06:54.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | devuan images have checsum files signed by a GPG(!) cert that you can get form a five dozen different sources that are hard to all get forged |
| 06:54.31 | gnarface | but that wasn't always true |
| 06:54.39 | gnarface | that's not a static constant |
| 06:55.32 | gnarface | i'm not even sure it's true strictly now |
| 06:55.41 | gnarface | maybe 2-3 other sources, certainly not "5 dozen" |
| 06:56.04 | gnarface | a couple univerity keyservers |
| 06:56.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, LE: a waste of time and thus money, a commercial cert is cheaper when you don't account indian wages for the work of your sysops |
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| 06:57.25 | gnarface | don't let prejudice make you stupid |
| 06:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | aha |
| 06:58.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | more such advice? like "don't you eat that yellow snow!" |
| 06:59.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | or was this a very screwed way to suggest that even indian wages are more valuable than the cost of a commercial cert? |
| 07:00.38 | rrq | i rather eat by myself than see my kids starve |
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| 07:05.03 | Guest73956 | hi |
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| 12:15.36 | detha | DocScrutinizer05: Sorry, but I beg to differ. LE certificates are equally strong authentication compared to normal commercial certs. If you want to properly authenticate a person/organisation, EV certs are required. |
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| 13:07.50 | buZz | https://twitter.com/mozzwald/status/947286493793529856 |
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| 13:18.51 | al3xus | hi all. please help me: (devuan jessie) how to completely disable suspend/hibernate??? |
| 13:19.11 | nemo | detha: I'd even say stronger |
| 13:20.05 | nemo | detha: given some of the massive screwups in past that triggered for example the symantec "death sentence" |
| 13:20.36 | nemo | detha: at least LE verifies the cert was issued to someone controlling a host on that domain. other registrars have been caught not even doing that |
| 13:21.24 | detha | nemo: equivalent. for both all you require is control over the domain's DNS. Screwups in the back-end and/or process can happen to anybody, be it Symantac, Diginotar or whoever |
| 13:21.53 | detha | For now, LE has something to prove, so they will be careful with the process. |
| 13:22.41 | nemo | detha: I just mean that the automatic process takes humans out of the equation |
| 13:22.58 | nemo | detha: other registrars have been subverted with processes that seemed to allow skipping even this most basic of verification |
| 13:23.33 | detha | True. Still, and good to know, I heard somewhere LE is/is going to verify challenges from different ASs, to make it more resilient against BGP hijacks |
| 13:23.39 | nemo | anyway, LE now encrypts like ¾s of the web so that's probably saying something |
| 13:29.34 | detha | nemo: 3/4 by # of domains maybe, definitely not 3/4 by traffic volume. But being 'the most used' also has its disadvantages: it makes LE a prime target |
| 13:30.11 | detha | Monocultures and all that |
| 13:30.43 | nemo | heh. well ofc, yay mercurial, devuan, firefox, I'm all about alternatives. |
| 13:31.14 | nemo | detha: but... was more just responding to his claim about what LE offers |
| 13:31.20 | nemo | people wouldn't use it if it was "worthless" |
| 13:31.31 | nemo | the numbers kinda attest to that |
| 13:32.06 | Hurgotron | just to play devil's advocate: that's the "millions of flies" argument |
| 13:32.12 | detha | according to 'you get what you pay fpr' it is worthless, like all FOSS ;) |
| 13:32.19 | nemo | hehe |
| 13:32.48 | nemo | Hurgotron: that's not much of an argument ð |
| 13:33.11 | Hurgotron | "shit tastes good, millions of flies can attest" |
| 13:33.40 | nemo | again... |
| 13:33.58 | Hurgotron | or Windows is a great OS |
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| 13:34.28 | nemo | Hurgotron: well. yes monopoly, but it does have its points or it would not have maintained its marketshare. I mean, don't use it personally but, know people who do |
| 13:34.38 | nemo | and they seem to be effective devs using it |
| 13:35.05 | Hurgotron | if you want to be interoperable, you probably have to. |
| 13:35.24 | nemo | Hurgotron: but. again. that's not much of an objection because what we're seeing is millions of sites, respectable sites, who have presumably done their homework, switching to it. no stupid exploits like what happened to symantec either |
| 13:35.30 | nemo | so... that was my point is all |
| 13:35.48 | nemo | implying they all have "shit taste" in registrars isn't saying much ð |
| 13:36.12 | Hurgotron | But I don't have anything against LE. The whole certificate infrastructure kinda sucks, and so far LE has been a decent player. |
| 13:38.43 | detha | The whole certificate infra had degenerated into rubber-stamping for $$. I remember the first cert we had to get (early 80s) where the CA actually sent out people to our offices to verify we existed, had the right paperwork, etc. Things have changed. |
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| 13:50.52 | Hurgotron | detha: A way bigger problem ist the huge list of root CAs from China, Turkey and whereever in your browser. |
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| 13:53.32 | detha | Hurgotron: that is another problem with the current situation. I haven't looked, but I am pretty sure there is some browser plugin to keep history on which CA's are actually used, and when they were used last. With that, you could easily cull that list. |
| 13:53.33 | Hurgotron | nemo: I still think numbers don't count for much if most people are idiots. Security is not a majority decision. |
| 13:54.19 | Hurgotron | detha: certificate patrol comes close, it says when the cert for some IP you access changes. |
| 13:55.04 | Hurgotron | Unfortunately, google's cloud and anycast and whatnot CDN setups break it all the time, so you have to whitelist... well. |
| 13:55.12 | detha | Hurgotron: hmm, so it has the needed data stashed somewhere, should be a way to pull that out |
| 13:56.59 | detha | And yes, there is no reason to not have multiple certs for the same domain; In fact, I know a few banks that do that, just in case a CA gets compromised and pulled off the 'trusted' list overnight. |
| 13:57.27 | Hurgotron | detha: There's no really good solution. That's why DANE was invented. |
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| 14:02.51 | nemo | detha: that process you want still exists, you just have to pay for the extended verification |
| 14:03.25 | nemo | detha: it's good that the "verifying trustworthiness" has been broken out into a separate process |
| 14:03.53 | nemo | detha: it's easy to remove those untrustworthy certs, yeah |
| 14:04.32 | detha | nemo: yup. EV is a solution to part of the problem - now if browsers/OSs would ship with two CA stores, one for 'normal certs' and one for EV certs, things would be good. |
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| 14:07.08 | Hurgotron | detha: Extended Validation Is Broken - https://stripe.ian.sh/ |
| 14:07.25 | Hurgotron | nice demo: https://twitter.com/Scott_Helme/status/940309076805869568 |
| 14:08.09 | nemo | Hurgotron: it's not impossible that all the webhosts and cloudflare and LE are all idiots I guess. it must mean the crooks are idiots too though, since no one has been exploiting LE to generate fake certs |
| 14:08.19 | nemo | Hurgotron: soooo so long as everyone is at same level of ignorance, guess we are fine! |
| 14:08.28 | nemo | I mean, amounts to same thing. oh. speaking of level of ignorance |
| 14:08.41 | nemo | https://cyber.wtf/2017/07/28/negative-result-reading-kernel-memory-from-user-mode/ â this appears to be what the mysterious intel thing is about |
| 14:08.45 | nemo | if you guys were wondering |
| 14:08.55 | nemo | hugs his AMD Bulldozer |
| 14:10.11 | Hurgotron | nemo: the problem is... it's not necessary to have LE generate fake certs if the other root CAs in your browser allows it (as has been proven a few times already). LE just wins since it's for free. |
| 14:10.51 | nemo | true... but that's not LE's fault |
| 14:11.01 | nemo | Anyway, I've disabled many root CAs |
| 14:11.17 | nemo | maybe I should pull up marketshare list and just disable any that can't maintain 1% |
| 14:11.21 | Hurgotron | good one, few people do that. |
| 14:11.38 | nemo | can always handle browser errors on a case by case basis |
| 14:12.22 | nemo | Hurgotron: I prefer to just uncheck trust web/mail in Firefox rather than outright delete, since it's a pain to put 'em back if I need 'em later |
| 14:12.34 | nemo | Hurgotron: I *think* that's pretty much equiv from browser's perspective? |
| 14:12.36 | nemo | sure hope so |
| 14:12.49 | Hurgotron | AFAIK yes |
| 14:14.22 | Hurgotron | about LE again... my point is, their security won't get a serious beating as long as there are easier exploitable targets (and I guess I should have phrased it that was from the beginning, but work keeps distracing me). |
| 14:14.30 | detha | Hurgotron: let's put it this way, EV is less broken than normal certs. And by being a bit more selective as to which EV certs one trusts, it still improves things. |
| 14:15.11 | nemo | Hurgotron: it's pretty sad when the "easier to exploit" is symantec though |
| 14:15.30 | nemo | Hurgotron: I mean, at work they used nothing *but* symantec. trust for what the name represented I guess |
| 14:15.48 | nemo | it was funny - on the request page for the symantec cert, SHA-1 was checked by default. |
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| 14:17.16 | Hurgotron | nemo: I can't remember offhand anyone who had anything good to say about Symantec. |
| 14:17.33 | FatPhil | Symantec is better ... |
| 14:17.38 | nemo | O_o |
| 14:17.38 | FatPhil | ... dead. |
| 14:17.40 | nemo | ah |
| 14:17.42 | nemo | hahahaha |
| 14:19.08 | nemo | Hurgotron: BTW, speaking of monopoly, was having yet another argument with one of our players on the Hedgewars server, after he asked me what distros I was using ("gentoo and, well, devuan now") |
| 14:19.10 | FatPhil | THe annoying thing about the centish CA fiasco is that I didn't realise that some of the brands (CAs) that I don't completely distrust yet were in fact now owned by Symantec, who I trust as far as I can throw them |
| 14:19.22 | nemo | Hurgotron: his opinion was linux needed systemd because linux needs "standards" ⺠|
| 14:19.41 | nemo | I guess at the rate the cancer is invading it is more systemd-linux like android-linux now |
| 14:20.02 | Hurgotron | well, the standard is the kernel API |
| 14:20.17 | Hurgotron | OH: GNU/systemd |
| 14:20.20 | nemo | FatPhil: what also bugs me was that Google was fine w/ the figleaf of a name change. I guess the logic was that all the old certs would be reissued so at least browsers could detect them |
| 14:20.25 | Hurgotron | (not really new I guess) |
| 14:20.46 | buZz | this is so nice |
| 14:20.47 | buZz | https://twitter.com/mozzwald/status/947286493793529856 |
| 14:21.08 | nemo | nifty |
| 14:21.22 | nemo | still have my raspi1 pre-order lying around. |
| 14:21.27 | nemo | wonder if graphics accel works |
| 14:21.41 | nemo | (yes yes, my personal obsession) |
| 14:21.54 | buZz | :) |
| 14:23.16 | Hurgotron | oh, devuan on raspi? I have been out of the loop for too long. |
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| 15:50.56 | freemangordon | FatPhil: hi! long time no see :) |
| 15:55.13 | FatPhil | indeed. howdy. |
| 15:57.31 | *** join/#devuan Vall (~Vall@plexus.tmp.com.br) |
| 15:58.14 | Vall | Hello everyone. I'm under the predictment of having to use someone else's Windows computer... which I won't be able to reboot under Linux, not even a pendrive. |
| 15:58.40 | Vall | My plan is to boot Devuan under QEMU-Win, loading both from a pendrive. |
| 15:58.55 | Vall | (I've done that in the past with Damn Small Linux and it worked great) |
| 15:59.17 | Vall | But DSLinux is abandomned, which brings me to my question: |
| 15:59.48 | Vall | Which is the most lightweight, X+Firefox ready, Devuan-based distro ? |
| 16:01.47 | djph | "Devuan"? |
| 16:01.54 | djph | ^_^ |
| 16:02.00 | Vall | LOL |
| 16:02.34 | Vall | djph: is there an ISO for Devuan which is really small and which will be so lightweight as to consume very little memory and CPU? |
| 16:02.36 | djph | At the moment, I'm honestly not aware of any distros based on it yet |
| 16:02.48 | djph | perhaps the netinst ISO? |
| 16:02.53 | Leander | are you looking for a liveCD? |
| 16:03.18 | Vall | djph: there are quite a few, ready-made: https://devuan.org/os/partners/devuan-distros |
| 16:03.28 | Vall | Leander: rather more than just a LiveCD. |
| 16:03.43 | Vall | I'd actually like something like DSLinux, ie, a complete distro. |
| 16:03.59 | Vall | (but as lightweight in terms of CPU and RAM usage as possible) |
| 16:06.02 | Vall | I've personally tested Refracta and MIYO, and the latter seemed more lightweight (469MB ISO vs Refracta's 648MB) |
| 16:06.33 | Vall | But that was in late 2016... so it may have changed. And also there are all those distros being talked about on the URL I listed above. |
| 16:06.41 | Vall | Is anyone here running any of them? |
| 16:07.05 | Leander | I'm not sure we have the same definition of what a distro is |
| 16:09.12 | Leander | but anyway, if you plan to run everything from a usb key, you could just install devuan, and when doing the packages selection, select nothing |
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| 16:09.44 | Leander | you end up with something quite minimal |
| 16:10.40 | Leander | then you just need to install the few packages that you really need (including X and Firefox) |
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| 16:16.53 | Vall | Leander: sure thing, that would be a way to go. But I would like something more "user-ready" |
| 16:17.03 | Vall | I'm having a second look at MIYO again |
| 16:17.09 | Vall | s/again// |
| 16:17.18 | Vall | It seems it is back to being updated... |
| 16:17.22 | Vall | which is good |
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| 16:27.44 | fsmithred | 1+ for miyo. I recommend the ascii version. |
| 16:34.51 | Vall | fsmithred: is there a version of miyo for ascii already?! |
| 16:34.55 | Vall | Before Devuan, that is? |
| 16:36.59 | fsmithred | yes |
| 16:37.06 | fsmithred | should be on his sourceforge site |
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| 16:37.59 | Vall | nice |
| 16:38.09 | Vall | will have a look, thanks for the info fsmithred |
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| 16:43.16 | fsmithred | Vall, go into one of the ascii folders: https://sourceforge.net/projects/miyolinux/files/2017-Release/ |
| 16:43.33 | Vall | fsmithred: great |
| 16:44.00 | Vall | but if you don't mind me asking, how come MIYO is ready with ASCII while Devuan proper isn't? |
| 16:44.03 | Vall | :-P |
| 16:44.42 | fsmithred | there are still a few things in ascii to be done, and devuan must be held to a higher standard |
| 16:45.04 | Vall | *sigh* |
| 16:45.05 | Vall | OK |
| 16:45.08 | Vall | I understand |
| 16:45.12 | fsmithred | I tried the miyo lxqt iso on a friend's laptop, because we could never get his wireless to work with earlier releases |
| 16:45.17 | fsmithred | it worked fine |
| 16:45.17 | Vall | but I want ASCII already! ;-) |
| 16:45.23 | fsmithred | so get ascii |
| 16:45.26 | fsmithred | it works great |
| 16:45.44 | Vall | Will do, and again thanks for the tip |
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| 16:46.36 | fsmithred | if you wanted to really do it all yourself, you could do a debootstrap install of ascii: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6957#p6957 |
| 16:46.42 | fsmithred | but miyo is easier |
| 16:47.30 | Vall | fsmithread: for what I have need of right now, easier is best ;-) |
| 16:48.05 | Vall | humrmmrrmr |
| 16:48.09 | fsmithred | wireless firmware is already installed (probably not all the firmware packages) |
| 16:48.20 | Vall | MIYO seems to be locking up when entering X under QEMU :-P |
| 16:48.33 | Vall | will give it a few more mins |
| 16:48.46 | fsmithred | I've had trouble booting some isos in qemu |
| 16:48.54 | Vall | (it could be it's just much more slower than the text-mode system boot, but I don't think it is) |
| 16:49.08 | fsmithred | you're using kvm? |
| 16:49.11 | Vall | nope |
| 16:49.16 | Vall | just plain softemu |
| 16:49.24 | fsmithred | lol, then you're emulating a PII |
| 16:49.29 | Vall | yeah |
| 16:49.40 | Vall | and it's supposed to work, right? |
| 16:50.36 | fsmithred | hang on, and I'll try it |
| 16:50.44 | Vall | OK |
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| 16:51.19 | fsmithred | how far did you get into the boot? |
| 16:51.25 | Vall | all the way |
| 16:51.32 | Vall | the issue was when it tried to start X |
| 16:51.40 | Vall | I know because the screen went graphics-mode |
| 16:51.54 | Vall | but then it apparently locked up, without showing anything |
| 16:52.04 | Vall | trying to boot MIYO again but this time in text mode not really what I need, but just to make sure |
| 16:52.35 | Vall | humrmrmr |
| 16:52.48 | Vall | seems it no longer has a text mode boot on its GRUB menu... |
| 16:53.13 | fsmithred | almost there - I'll tell you if you can boot to text mode or not |
| 16:53.26 | fsmithred | I'm using the Nov. qt iso |
| 16:53.46 | fsmithred | MiyoQt-Ascii-64bit-20171103.iso |
| 16:54.13 | Vall | OK |
| 16:54.14 | fsmithred | live-config is slow |
| 17:02.09 | fsmithred | sure is taking a long time. I've got an arrow and black screen. How do I drop to console in qemu? |
| 17:09.51 | fsmithred | runlevel 3 is not text mode in this build |
| 17:10.09 | fsmithred | and I couldn't get the desktop up without kvm |
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| 17:12.59 | golinux | I thought kvm was necessary |
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| 17:19.45 | fsmithred | vall, press TAB and add 'single' to the boot command |
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| 17:32.10 | fsmithred | vall, there's no browser installed |
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| 18:13.43 | Vall | back |
| 18:14.22 | Vall | fsmithred: so no graphical boot for you either? |
| 18:14.33 | fsmithred | only with kvm |
| 18:14.42 | Vall | OK |
| 18:14.44 | fsmithred | and also on a usb to boot a laptop |
| 18:14.52 | fsmithred | note that there is no web browser |
| 18:15.07 | fsmithred | or much of anything else |
| 18:15.26 | fsmithred | you could make a usb with persistence and add those things |
| 18:15.34 | fsmithred | or install it, add stuff, make your own iso |
| 18:15.35 | Vall | kvm presumes installing DLLs to windows system directories plus register modifications and all that crap, right? |
| 18:15.50 | fsmithred | I have no idea about windows |
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| 18:17.07 | fsmithred | I think you can run bash in windows now, so maybe lynx will work for you |
| 18:18.32 | fsmithred | what about virtualbox? |
| 18:22.04 | Vall | OK thanks for the tips |
| 18:22.15 | Vall | (and for testing it on your machine) |
| 18:22.17 | Vall | gotta go now |
| 18:22.20 | Vall | waves |
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| 21:13.38 | bozonius | installs and examines what krita and mtpaint can do... |
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| 21:34.31 | nepugia | krita is pretty awesome |
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| 22:10.40 | bozonius | Looks like it is geared to the cartoonist, movie artist, photo buff, etc. |
| 22:41.58 | jaromil | oh yes. krita is awesome yes |
| 22:42.13 | jaromil | does it works well on devuan? that makes me happy |
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| 23:00.42 | Guest9235 | there are packages for krita in ubuntu; so, there is a possibility |
| 23:01.04 | jaromil | ack. needs porting |
| 23:02.54 | Guest9235 | jaromil: i'm not Guest9235, i failed to identify in time for my nickname |
| 23:04.24 | Guest9235 | neither Guest9235, nor Kabrarroka |
| 23:05.39 | Guest9235 | i read in the following post: http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/krita-creative-sketching-and-painting-application-for-linux |
| 23:05.58 | Guest9235 | If GIMP is the best image editor of Linux distros then certainly Krita is the best image maker of Linux distros. |
| 23:06.20 | Guest9235 | i've never used it, but it looks good |
| 23:06.28 | Guest9235 | seems to be developed in qt |
| 23:09.05 | Guest9235 | Guest9235..., is it my new nickname for 2018? |
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| 23:10.06 | Guest9235 | where is the nickname freedom? |
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| 23:10.35 | bozonius | snooze you lose |
| 23:11.26 | bozonius | jaromil: seems to here (Devuan 1.0). The only thing I don't like is they set it to default to black background |
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| 23:22.12 | golinux | bozonius: Huh? What DE are you using? |
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| 23:28.46 | bozonius | xfce 4.10? |
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| 23:32.11 | Guest9235 | golinux: are you talking to me? |
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| 23:32.46 | Guest9235 | am i bozonius now? i'm so confusing... |
| 23:33.05 | Guest9235 | snooze i lose, i use gnome |
| 23:33.16 | golinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.32 | golinux | That's what I responded to. |
| 23:34.09 | golinux | You should have gotten a nice purpy background and theme |
| 23:34.32 | golinux | brb |
| 23:34.41 | chillfan | If a standard install (using Devuan package selections), it should have desktop-base and purpy theme |
| 23:34.59 | chillfan | dpkg -l | grep desktop |
| 23:37.49 | Guest9235 | golinux: you live in both hemispheres at the same time surrounded by armadillos, i know, but... which is your meridian? |
| 23:38.05 | Guest9235 | oh! she/he is gone |
| 23:38.49 | Guest9235 | me too :) |
| 23:41.58 | golinux | no on the phone |
| 23:42.55 | bozonius | golinux: It actually COULD be deep purple... which appears like black to the colorblind... |
| 23:43.40 | golinux | darkpurpy is is ascii and it is hard. |
| 23:44.01 | bozonius | "ascii?" |
| 23:44.06 | golinux | opps dark. (don't try to talk and write at the same time) |
| 23:44.32 | golinux | Debian stretch = Devuan ascii |
| 23:44.51 | bozonius | OH!! THAT ascii... gotcha |
| 23:44.53 | bozonius | lol |
| 23:45.04 | golinux | The DE is very dark. |
| 23:45.09 | bozonius | I am running devuan 1.0 (jessie) |
| 23:45.20 | golinux | That purpy is quite light. |
| 23:45.26 | bozonius | my xfce is sort of a medium or light blue |
| 23:45.40 | golinux | And I keep my monitor at 80% brightness |
| 23:46.04 | golinux | There is no blue in Devuan jessie. |
| 23:46.22 | bozonius | well, I am using xfce... |
| 23:46.32 | golinux | https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan |
| 23:46.44 | golinux | So am I and I do the theming |
| 23:47.07 | bozonius | hmmmm. |
| 23:47.19 | golinux | so I know exactly what color it is |
| 23:49.13 | chillfan | should be a bright purple on jessie |
| 23:49.28 | chillfan | golinux: so you finished with openbox? |
| 23:51.54 | bozonius | https://pastebin.com/ |
| 23:53.12 | fsmithred | chillfan, yes, openbox theme is done |
| 23:53.12 | bozonius | contrast 50%; brightness 70% |
| 23:53.29 | bozonius | looks blue to ME, but that doesn't say a whole lot |
| 23:54.15 | bozonius | https://pasteboard.co/H1hAYiJ.png |
| 23:54.17 | bozonius | (sorry) |
| 23:54.40 | chillfan | Ah, you're somehow using the default xfce background |
| 23:54.48 | bozonius | "somehow?" |
| 23:55.24 | chillfan | Yeah, because if you let the Devuan installer take care of installing a desktop you should get a purple background |
| 23:55.39 | fsmithred | I can think of at least a couple of ways that could happen |
| 23:55.51 | bozonius | maybe I installed xfce post-install? |
| 23:55.51 | fsmithred | is desktop-base installed? |
| 23:56.09 | bozonius | fsmithred: it is yes |
| 23:56.11 | chillfan | bozonius: yeah that's what I think |
| 23:56.14 | chillfan | hm |
| 23:56.19 | fsmithred | not sure about that one |
| 23:56.39 | chillfan | you should have access to the purpy background if you configure it, and the clearlooks-phenix-purpy theme |
| 23:56.48 | chillfan | or whatever it's called |
| 23:57.16 | fsmithred | that's exactly the name (needs one more hyphen) |
| 23:57.49 | bozonius | https://pastebin.com/9NAAt0LQ |
| 23:58.30 | chillfan | I'm not good with clicking things but you can check your background and theme settings in xfce |
| 23:58.58 | fsmithred | as a test, create a new user and then log in as that user |
| 23:59.02 | bozonius | I'm happy with this color, even if it makes me a bit out of step with the devuan heads |
| 23:59.09 | bozonius | sure |
| 23:59.11 | fsmithred | you should get the full theme that way |
| 23:59.31 | fsmithred | you can change it to whatever you like. I do. |
| 23:59.59 | bozonius | will my system launch a second graphical term -- I'd like to not have to log out then back in |
