| 00:00.31 | specing | run it under valgrind |
| 00:00.42 | specing | and/or long running bisect with the previous version |
| 00:03.35 | golinux | I never have to restart Xorg |
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| 00:06.22 | n4dir | wondering why i would let X keep running while i am asleep or not at home or such. |
| 00:08.26 | specing | Why not? |
| 00:09.22 | n4dir | dunno. I always run as little as possible. Might relate to the specs all my computers have |
| 00:10.33 | specing | PentiumIII? |
| 00:10.46 | n4dir | that. or Pentium4. Or all around those lines. |
| 00:10.54 | specing | :D |
| 00:11.32 | n4dir | of course with modern web-browsers you can do whatever you want, you are in trouble ... |
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| 01:18.38 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 02:05.48 | sirix | gnu_srs: maybe: echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches |
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| 02:22.51 | paradigm | Hi! I've found a number of mirrors to download installation media. However, I have only been able to find one mirror for sources.list, though: "http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/". I wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything before I debootstrap a number of systems and hit that URL repeatedly. |
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| 07:03.49 | CatButts | I feel installing xorg was a mistake |
| 07:04.34 | CatButts | perhaps something smaller exists |
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| 07:19.56 | gnarface | CatButts: heh. well i'm not sure wayland is any smaller. pretty much those are your only two choices, and commercial software pretty much only supports xorg so far. |
| 07:20.08 | gnarface | CatButts: but a lot of those packages xorg includes are actually optional |
| 07:20.32 | gnarface | CatButts: (their dependencies aren't set up as optional, but you can uninstall the drivers for devices you don't own without any consequence) |
| 07:21.07 | CatButts | would there happen to exist an xorg clone that is tiny and compatible? |
| 07:21.52 | gnarface | i wouldn't rule it out, but nothing that i know of off the top of my head. most admins would resort to going headless or just maximizing the framebuffer console features instead |
| 07:22.29 | CatButts | https://www.irif.fr/~jch//software/kdrive.html |
| 07:22.35 | gnarface | framebuffer console drivers that support kms are common these days except for nvidia-official drivers |
| 07:22.48 | gnarface | so you can crank the system virtual terminal resolution way up |
| 07:23.05 | gnarface | and stuff like svgalib and sdl1/2 can give you video&opengl playback features |
| 07:23.11 | CatButts | I wouldn't worry about drivers TOO much :P |
| 07:23.16 | CatButts | on the nokia n900 |
| 07:23.37 | gnarface | and vim and emacs have built-in tiling-style frame/window/terminal handling (and much more in emacs) |
| 07:23.38 | CatButts | a 2009 spec phone |
| 07:23.43 | gnarface | ah, i see |
| 07:24.05 | CatButts | I just want a tiny DE/WM and X server |
| 07:24.16 | gnarface | hmmm. wayland may actually not be a bad choice for such a device but i don't know much about it's current status |
| 07:24.54 | gnarface | myself, i'd probably just work on optimizing the xorg performance as much as possible by disabling/uninstalling components i wasn't using |
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| 10:12.37 | Walex | CatButts: as to something smaller than 'Xorg' |
| 10:13.05 | Walex | CatButts: there is are a couple of mini-X11 servers that rely on VESA/FB drivers |
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| 16:37.20 | beco | Good day, forks |
| 16:37.54 | CatButts | uhllo |
| 16:38.42 | beco | So many animals, so many body parts... But hello catbutts :) |
| 16:39.04 | NewGnuGuy | good morning |
| 16:39.22 | NewGnuGuy | at least in my timezone |
| 16:39.33 | beco | 13h40 here, good morning for you new guy |
| 16:40.10 | CatButts | hello beco, let the bodies hit the floor |
| 16:40.33 | beco | piece by piece |
| 16:41.10 | CatButts | gibfest \o/ |
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| 17:21.32 | msiism | golinux: have the color codes for the purpy dark theme been finalized now? if so, could you post them on devuan git, so i can adjust the wdm logo (if necessary) and create a logo for xdm? |
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| 17:46.56 | golinux | msiism: I suggest you use the colors of the wallpaper not the darkpurpy theme for the logo. |
| 17:48.04 | msiism | golinux: ok, but the devuan logo in wdm has a light (white-ish) color. |
| 17:48.05 | golinux | The theme is a complimentary color to accent the priomanty colors. |
| 17:48.22 | msiism | prio-what? |
| 17:48.30 | golinux | Didn't I post all those colors before? |
| 17:48.46 | golinux | Oops primary |
| 17:49.11 | msiism | golinux: well, you kind of did that. but i just wondered if they are still ccurate |
| 17:49.27 | golinux | Let me get them again |
| 17:49.52 | msiism | maybe, could you create a color scheme on standard grey background? |
| 17:50.19 | golinux | Huh? |
| 17:50.51 | golinux | Gray isn't in my vocabulary |
| 17:52.04 | msiism | how is that? |
| 17:52.47 | golinux | It is a dead 'non-color' |
| 17:53.36 | golinux | #33313B background |
| 17:53.36 | golinux | #3C3A45 swoosh |
| 17:53.36 | golinux | #4C4A57 logo overlay |
| 17:54.14 | msiism | ok, thanks. let me check those. |
| 17:54.34 | golinux | I need to get the whitish color yet |
| 17:55.12 | golinux | I would suggest that you use the background color for the dark part of the logo |
| 17:55.40 | msiism | golinux: yes, i'm already doing that and the values are identical. |
| 17:56.32 | golinux | This is the whitish color used in slim and the grub theme #DAD9DC |
| 17:56.58 | msiism | ok, same here |
| 17:57.08 | msiism | so, nothing to do for wdm. nice. |
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| 17:57.44 | golinux | Or you might be able to use the logo color. But I don;t think that there is enough contrast for a small area especially on a white BG |
| 17:58.07 | msiism | golinux: right. i had tested that and it didn't really make sense. |
| 17:58.37 | golinux | The BG colors only work together in a large area |
| 17:58.45 | msiism | ok |
| 17:58.56 | golinux | It's a bit of an optical illusion. |
| 17:59.23 | msiism | i see |
| 17:59.49 | golinux | I played around with changing up the colors on the website and I couldn't see a difference between them next to the white of the page |
| 18:00.05 | golinux | They all just looked black. |
| 18:02.10 | msiism | i'm just trying to find the meet notes containing the color value for the wdm background, i gave to KatolaZ.... |
| 18:02.52 | msiism | or maybe that was on the sprint pad |
| 18:04.34 | msiism | ok, found it. it's correct |
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| 18:05.55 | msiism | also, shouldn't the sprint pad be posted to the devuan-dev list and put on the wiki? |
| 18:10.10 | msiism | golinux: about the xdm logo. the purpy one is #424252. as in xdm, the logo contains the swoosh, we should probably go with the swoosh color there. |
| 18:11.35 | golinux | I don't think that will work - not enough contrast. |
| 18:12.12 | golinux | It will just look like a blackish blog. Try it and see how it looks. |
| 18:13.29 | msiism | well, i think, you can pretty much tell #3C3A45 from #000000 |
| 18:14.01 | golinux | But there won't be any #000000 |
| 18:14.13 | msiism | also, in xdm, everything happens on a light grey background. |
| 18:14.29 | msiism | well, the devuan_bw xdm logo is #000000 |
| 18:16.54 | golinux | In the grand scheme of things this is not a priority. I would suggest using devuan related colors but if you're using #000000 that's not happening so maybe you should just keep using that now and in the future. |
| 18:17.23 | golinux | That will look better on the gray anyway. |
| 18:17.31 | msiism | golinux: i don't get what you're trying to say. |
| 18:17.37 | golinux | Any color will look out of place. |
| 18:17.56 | golinux | So just keep it all grayscale |
| 18:18.06 | msiism | here's xdm in debian: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Debian_with_Xdm.jpg |
| 18:19.56 | golinux | Against that blue, definitely keep the logo with #000000 |
| 18:20.23 | msiism | ok, so we don't theme xdm logos? i'd be ok with that. |
| 18:20.49 | golinux | I think that's the best solution. |
| 18:21.35 | golinux | I have a hunch that xdm users won't notice the difference. |
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| 18:22.33 | msiism | well, still, if anyone wanted to cutomize xdm to fit the releases theme (and then propably also change that blue to black or whatever), we should ship themed logos, i'd say. it's kind of really not so important, though. |
| 18:23.14 | msiism | xdm is very customizable in how it looks |
| 18:23.39 | golinux | Then let the users "do it their way". |
| 18:23.53 | golinux | We don't have to do it for them. |
| 18:24.21 | msiism | but creating an accurately colored xpm image can be quite a challenge. it was for me. |
| 18:24.53 | msiism | xdm only accepts xpm format. |
| 18:25.38 | golinux | The title bar in Xfce also uses xpms. Been there done that. |
| 18:26.45 | msiism | ok, so let's say: no theming xdm logos from our side. |
| 18:29.31 | golinux | Not unless ALL of xdm is themed. Leave it to the users if it's so customizable. |
| 18:31.05 | msiism | alright, i'll remove devuan-logo-xdm-purpy.xpm from devuan git then. |
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| 18:40.22 | msiism | golinux: ok, there's a merge request for devuan-art on g.d.o now. |
| 18:51.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | fsck KDE systray with its grayscale-only icons that are illegible even to persons without the slightest issues with vision. Leete designers with No F.ing Clue about usability and ergonomy |
| 19:05.52 | fsmithred | Chrome's disease |
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| 19:26.52 | golinux | msiism: done |
| 19:27.51 | msiism | golinux: thanks. |
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| 20:54.14 | fsmithred | n4dir, want to be a guinea pig and try refractainstaller in German? msiism, you too. |
| 20:54.49 | fsmithred | brb |
| 21:06.06 | n4dir | i can try that. ping me again (or i will ping you), but right now i am on my way out. exactly now :-) |
| 21:06.07 | n4dir | later |
| 21:06.33 | n4dir | download link is at debianuserforums.org ? the new thread? |
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| 21:09.16 | fsmithred | sourceforge |
| 21:09.28 | n4dir | ok later |
| 21:09.37 | fsmithred | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/tools/refractainstaller-base_9.3.3_all.deb |
| 21:09.44 | fsmithred | thanks |
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| 21:42.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, english->german is one of my stronger skills |
| 21:44.04 | fsmithred | DocScrutinizer51, if you feel like filling in any missing message strings, I can send you the files (.pot and partially translated .po) |
| 21:44.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | but no way to do anything to that in the next 2 2eeks |
| 21:44.28 | fsmithred | yeah, that's fine. This is a slow process. |
| 21:44.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, that might work |
| 21:44.33 | debdog | oy! I am about to finish the translation |
| 21:44.40 | fsmithred | oh cool |
| 21:44.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | low volume |
| 21:44.43 | fsmithred | did you get my email? |
| 21:45.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm in the internet outback here |
| 21:45.52 | debdog | but I certainly like to get some feedback! Typos, grammar and most importantly, things that I might have translated wrong because of misunderstanding what's happening |
| 21:46.08 | debdog | fsmithred: yes, just read it. thanks for the elaborations! |
| 21:47.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | fsmithred: actually nevermind, translate jobs fail epically without the proper context, read: running the installer |
| 21:47.38 | debdog | a git thingy woiuld be nice to have here. so more people could parttake |
| 21:48.11 | fsmithred | I'll update at git.devuan.org soon |
| 21:48.20 | debdog | hehe, DocScrutinizer51, true. mostly I had to rely on the script itself to make a proper translation |
| 21:48.21 | fsmithred | and those files will be there |
| 21:48.28 | debdog | ok |
| 21:48.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | usually I fix the english original texts too while translating them ;) |
| 21:48.56 | debdog | lol |
| 21:49.02 | debdog | I was tempted to |
| 21:49.07 | fsmithred | DocScrutinizer51, do you run de locale? I noticed a weird thing with mke2fs |
| 21:49.37 | fsmithred | if you try to format a partition that already has a filesyste, you get a warning, and it asks for y/N answer, but it responds to j/N |
| 21:49.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | I run maemo right now ;P |
| 21:50.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | it spanish exil, on 3G |
| 21:50.22 | debdog | i have fresh pendrive here, I can check rigth now.... |
| 21:50.32 | fsmithred | cool |
| 21:51.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | fsmithred: j vs y is a long known nasty stupid bug in a lot of programs |
| 21:51.33 | debdog | the past few years gparted was the tool of choise, so might take a bit dig up that knowledge agin |
| 21:51.38 | fsmithred | ok, well that's reassuring - people will be used to it. |
| 21:52.18 | fsmithred | well, the installer formats the partition even if you already did it with gparted. You can turn that behavior off in the config file. |
| 21:54.25 | fsmithred | I'm afk for a bit. |
| 21:54.51 | *** join/#devuan beco (~beco@unaffiliated/beco) |
| 22:01.09 | debdog | fsmithred: |
| 22:01.30 | debdog | Trotzdem fortfahren? (j,n) j |
| 22:01.39 | debdog | prints j,n here |
| 22:02.09 | debdog | and works with "j" as command |
| 22:02.17 | debdog | mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014) |
| 22:02.17 | debdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:02.23 | debdog | jessie |
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| 22:23.58 | *** part/#devuan andreogb (~andy@americano.street.me.uk) |
| 22:24.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | fsmithred: (and @all) actually that j vs y thing id just one of the reasons to run root shells always with locale C |
| 22:25.44 | msiism | fsmithred: after downloading and installing the deb package (not that i've done it yet), what would i do to test this? |
| 22:26.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | all your scripts and system() calls etc *shall* be agnostic to locale, alas the smaller part of them _really_ is |
| 22:28.31 | nemo | heh.... our game confirm dialog is still broken in that fashion AFAIK... have had reports of that for years |
| 22:29.43 | nemo | hm... but it prints j - so it actually works perfectly? |
| 22:31.51 | debdog | msiism: ideally try in a vm. boot a live ISO with the refracta installer installed. then run it |
| 22:33.09 | debdog | the script's name is "refractainstaller" |
| 22:33.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually I think the problem is with a lot of locales, e.g. italian too (si), no idea about french (oui?) - and it either prints 'yes\No' but reacts to 's' or 'j' according to locale. Or it asks 'ja/Nein' but only knows Y(es) No as answer |
| 22:38.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | because of those bugs every sane sysop runs root accounts/shells with locale C, and since thats the situation it is more likely that commands of group 8 are those where that bug lingers on for decades without ever hetting fixed |
| 22:39.17 | fsmithred | does the locale change with 'su' or 'su -'? |
| 22:39.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | with su - it should, without - not |
| 22:41.33 | fsmithred | I was testing by booting a live iso and then using sftp to get the deb and install the new version |
| 22:42.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | ideally you init each script with export LOCALE=C amd each system call with leading LANG=C command |
| 22:42.32 | fsmithred | if you have a live usb set up with persistence, you can copy the package to the persistent partition |
| 22:42.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | attention with maemo, it has no C locale :-S |
| 22:43.02 | fsmithred | well, if I set the locale to C, then it won't get translated, and it's a very chatty script. |
| 22:43.22 | fsmithred | that must run as root |
| 22:43.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | its always a PITA |
| 22:44.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | ideally scripts sanitize all user input |
| 22:44.39 | fsmithred | sanitize how? |
| 22:44.57 | fsmithred | I do test for a lot of incorrect input |
| 22:45.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | never feed user input directly to a command in your scropt... IDEALLY |
| 22:45.22 | debdog | fsmithred: at the end of the script: "If you want to change the user name, then run change-username after reboot." what's this change-username thingy? cannot find that command. or is it some GUI thingy? |
| 22:45.54 | fsmithred | no, that's an old script that does what the installer does to change the username |
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| 22:47.05 | fsmithred | I don't think that script gets installed anymore |
| 22:47.26 | debdog | I see. just tested on the vm and it is there |
| 22:48.06 | fsmithred | yeah, I see that now |
| 22:48.09 | fsmithred | I think it still works |
| 22:48.20 | debdog | ok, so I translate as is |
| 22:49.00 | fsmithred | yeah, that script does not get translated, and neither does the readme |
| 22:49.17 | debdog | k |
| 22:49.19 | fsmithred | if someone is ambitious, I can include the readme |
| 22:49.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | you could store locale env to old_locale, then set local locale in script to C and only run commands like yesno with "reply=$(LANG=$old_locale yesno 'do you agree?') " |
| 22:49.55 | fsmithred | oh yeah, that would work. Right now, it's only mke2fs that causes the problem |
| 22:51.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, still a PITa though |
| 22:51.58 | fsmithred | I changed all the answers to my questions to numbers instead of letters |
| 22:52.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-D |
| 22:52.40 | fsmithred | although I left it so that y/n still work |
| 22:53.01 | fsmithred | because I've run the thing so many times, that's where my fingers go |
| 22:53.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | also works fine for 1/9 instead true/false which has similar issues |
| 22:53.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | 10 even |
| 22:53.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | damn |
| 22:54.56 | fsmithred | i suppose using special characters for answers would be a really bad idea. |
| 22:57.59 | debdog | y(ä)s |
| 22:58.42 | fsmithred | has been trapped in a foreign keyboard more than once |
| 23:00.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | I did"t suggest any foreign chars, was a typo |
| 23:00.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | I meant 1/0 |
| 23:02.17 | fsmithred | some are 1/2 some are 1/2/3/4 and some are ENTER for default or 1 for something else |
| 23:03.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | Uve been trapped in UIs that e.g. offer all language names for language selection in currently active language, so "German" or "alleman" or even some chinese or cyrillic letters. Why canmt those dialogs use genuine names for each country\lang, like "Deutsch" |
| 23:05.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | "francais" instead "french", etc |
| 23:06.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | *getting there* where you choose languages is a topic of its own, though closely related |
| 23:07.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | old nasty prank: change feature phone settings of friend's phone to arab or japanese |
| 23:08.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | try to find the menu where zou reset that, when all menus are kanjii |
| 23:16.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | make first screen after boot a menu "bitte fruecken sie RETURN wenn dies ihre bevorzugte Sprache ist \n please press RETURN when you want english language ..." and highlight one line/entry after the other automaticallt for 1s. Maybe read out the text in sync via audio |
| 23:16.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | allow up/down cursor keys nevertheless |
| 23:17.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | stopping the automatic mode when up or down pressed |
| 23:20.02 | debdog | translation done. on the old file, though. now wrap head around how to merge... |
| 23:20.50 | *** join/#devuan blinkdog (~blinkdog@devuan/developer/blinkdog) |
| 23:21.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | diff/patch? |
| 23:22.31 | *** join/#devuan R0b0t1 (~~@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 23:26.46 | fsmithred | msgmerge -o de.po-new de.po refractainstaller-base.pot |
| 23:27.13 | fsmithred | wait, that might not work right |
| 23:27.57 | fsmithred | what the hell, try it and send me de.po-new |
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| 23:28.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, tou always keep a backup copy of all files, right? ;) so just try |
| 23:28.50 | fsmithred | it makes a new file with that and doesn't change the original |
| 23:29.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | I don't trust any such assertions ;-P |
| 23:29.29 | fsmithred | most of the changes are just the line numbers |
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| 23:29.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | I only used Qt translator so far |
| 23:30.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | worked reasonably nice |
| 23:30.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | see twinklephone |
| 23:31.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | I think the twinkle german locale is 4 times the size of the english one ;-P |
| 23:33.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | would prolly be worth it to translate the german back to english, LOL |
| 23:33.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | en_VERBOSE |
| 23:34.59 | fsmithred | I thought german had fewer words, but they were all longer words. |
| 23:35.27 | fsmithred | brb, need food |
| 23:36.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | my translations were not thhat, it rather was a all new UI, test wise |
| 23:36.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | textwise* |
| 23:38.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | when original was 'own IP', my translation had 'you either leave this empty for automatic mode, or you fill in your *publc* IPv4 addr or your DynDNS URL' |
| 23:39.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | of course in German |
| 23:40.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's why I said mere translation without the app running for gathering the context results in crap translations |
| 23:42.01 | fsmithred | maybe the english needed to be translated to english in that case. |
| 23:43.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | quite possible, Michel deBoer (twinkle main devel and IETF SIP RFC author) is a Dutchman |
| 23:44.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | or netherlands |
| 23:44.36 | fsmithred | oh, I wasn't even considering that. I've seen plenty of examples of docs that were written by people who knew what they meant, but it's not clear to anyone else. |
| 23:45.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | nod |
| 23:49.39 | debdog | oopsie, got sidetracked in another #channel |
| 23:50.02 | debdog | fsmithred: translation wise it worked. not sure 'bout the line numbering |
| 23:50.42 | fsmithred | I did a diff on the original you sent me and the converted one I made, and they were mostly the same |
| 23:52.30 | debdog | fsmithred, msiism: http://beggabaur.rocks/daten/de.po-new |
| 23:55.26 | debdog | hum, issues with special characters, it seems |
| 23:55.28 | debdog | wait |
| 23:56.48 | debdog | at least in my browser |
| 23:56.58 | debdog | wget http://beggabaur.rocks/daten/de.po-new works |
| 23:57.20 | rrq | thinks all characters ar equal -- though perhaps some are more equal than others |
| 23:57.27 | debdog | haha |
| 23:57.34 | fsmithred | oh, I just saved the file in the browser |
| 23:58.19 | fsmithred | did you run msmgmerge, or is this just the same file you've been working on? |
| 23:58.23 | debdog | the first one is in line 45 |
| 23:58.50 | debdog | fsmithred: I ran msgmerge -o de.po-new de.po refractainstaller-base.pot as told |
