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| 00:46.50 | jonadab | Dunno what proxmox is, but I don't think most virtualization software requires systemd. |
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| 00:52.40 | koollman | proxmox does require it. It's not made to run on anything but debian, so they started using systemd when debian did |
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| 01:20.52 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 01:27.39 | msiism | golinux: i'm going to create a dark purpy variant of the devuan logo for XDM as well. i'm just not sure, which color to use. both, the swoosh and the background color would make sense. |
| 01:33.24 | fsmithred | msiism, nobody is sure which color to use. She keeps changing it. |
| 01:34.25 | msiism | well, as far as i can see, values haven't changed. |
| 01:35.44 | fsmithred | I keep getting new sets of images. There might be one more waiting for me when I get up tomorrow. |
| 01:35.51 | msiism | which is a bit starnge, since it is mentioned in the meet notes from this week that the swoosh color has been slightly adjusted (probably a link to the wrong file then, or the adjustment already happened a while back). |
| 01:36.53 | msiism | ok, i'll just wait for the final product then. |
| 01:37.17 | fsmithred | I really think the tweaking will be done by tomorrow. |
| 01:37.25 | msiism | ok, fine |
| 01:38.00 | fsmithred | I just keep replacing them on git every time I get a set. |
| 01:38.46 | fsmithred | once we're done I can delete all the files that are no longer relevant. |
| 01:39.07 | fsmithred | have to say it does look good |
| 01:39.14 | msiism | agreed |
| 01:39.19 | fsmithred | I like this one better than the last one |
| 01:39.25 | msiism | me too |
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| 02:08.04 | fsmithred | wb |
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| 02:08.35 | fsmithred | Evilham, welcome back |
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| 02:47.05 | fsmithred | I need a reality check. Is a symbolic link a regular file? |
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| 02:52.00 | msiism | fsmithred: what does find say? |
| 02:53.56 | koollman | fsmithred: it is, and is not. Why do you ask ? :) |
| 02:54.45 | koollman | fsmithred: it is regular in the sense that is not a directory or a device |
| 02:55.07 | fsmithred | why does test -f say that symbolic links are regular files? |
| 02:55.15 | koollman | it does not. it's subtle |
| 02:55.21 | koollman | it dereferences them :) |
| 02:55.38 | fsmithred | what do you mean? |
| 02:55.45 | koollman | ln -s notthere mysymlink |
| 02:55.52 | koollman | test -f mysymlink && echo ok |
| 02:56.19 | fsmithred | I did: for i in * ; do if [ -f "$i" ]; then ls -l "$i" ;fi;done |
| 02:56.29 | fsmithred | and it listed files and symlinks |
| 02:56.36 | koollman | yep |
| 02:56.41 | fsmithred | ok |
| 02:56.48 | fsmithred | didn't expect that |
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| 02:57.24 | koollman | compare the two previous commands I did to : touch somefile ; ln -s somefile somesymlink ; test -f somesymlink && echo ok |
| 02:57.48 | koollman | in this case, test is not testing wether the symlink is a regular file, but wether it points to one |
| 02:58.16 | fsmithred | so it won't find dead links |
| 02:58.34 | koollman | or symlinks pointing to directories or devices |
| 02:58.45 | fsmithred | ah, ok |
| 02:59.09 | koollman | but, if it is a symlink to a regular file, then test returns true |
| 02:59.22 | koollman | because, well, reasons. But mostly because you can use it as a regular file |
| 02:59.27 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 02:59.31 | fsmithred | that makes sense |
| 03:00.14 | fsmithred | you just saved me from posting on dng |
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| 03:00.32 | fsmithred | although I was considering taking bets on how long the discussion would run |
| 03:01.24 | koollman | if you need special treatment of symlinks there is -L |
| 03:01.33 | fsmithred | yeah, I know -h |
| 03:01.40 | fsmithred | uh, they are the same, right? |
| 03:02.00 | koollman | yes. but -h is older and maybe deprecated in some unixes |
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| 03:02.18 | fsmithred | ok, I just remember it because it's so non-memorable |
| 03:02.51 | fsmithred | but maybe you know why h? |
| 03:02.58 | koollman | http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/test.html although both are there. And seem very very identical :) |
| 03:03.58 | koollman | I do not know why |
| 03:04.36 | koollman | L makes more sense. h was probably something in early unix to keep using lowercase |
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| 03:10.53 | fsmithred | I got stuck reading the bottom of that page |
| 03:13.07 | koollman | standards are 'fun' |
| 03:13.53 | fsmithred | it got a little better when I put on my glasses |
| 03:14.07 | koollman | fsmithred: what I get from this is "one member of the standard group used test -h, another used test -L, and neither wanted to change it so we added both" |
| 03:14.20 | fsmithred | lol |
| 03:15.02 | koollman | (it was added in the same 'issue' of the standard) |
| 03:15.29 | fsmithred | I think I just did something similar to that. |
| 03:15.50 | fsmithred | I changed letter answers in an interactive script to number answers for easier translation |
| 03:15.56 | fsmithred | but the letters still work |
| 03:16.14 | fsmithred | 'cause that's what I'm used to. |
| 03:16.16 | koollman | https://stackoverflow.com/a/1997843 is a nice reference |
| 03:17.29 | koollman | so, strictly identical since they are in the same case handling, but one was, at the time of the writing of the code, 'undocumented', for this shell at least. ended up in the standard anyway :) |
| 03:19.25 | fsmithred | nice, thanks |
| 03:20.10 | koollman | (so, the member with -h was probably AT&T or Bell Labs. I do not remember when they were bought) |
| 03:21.37 | koollman | or maybe it is the opposite since they thought it would go away. I wonder if there are archives of the meetings :) |
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| 09:00.29 | ZUEH | what can I do against USB mouse lag in jessie? it must be related to either X or the usb configuration, as the trackpad has no lag |
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| 10:54.25 | fugitive | nrx: maybe openvz? we have it running on cent6, debian is supported. Probably devuan as well.. Havent tested it |
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| 16:29.04 | fromport | preaching to the choir: http://edgeofsanity.net/rant/2017/12/20/systemd-resolved-is-broken.html |
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| 16:44.44 | fugitive | :) |
| 16:45.16 | vivus | Can I burn Devuan directly onto an HDD? Or should I go via the USB root? |
| 16:45.37 | KatolaZ | vivus: ? |
| 16:45.54 | fsmithred | that would be weird |
| 16:46.25 | jonadab | Burn it directly into your cerebral cortex. |
| 16:46.38 | vivus | I have bought a new HDD and I am wondering if I can somehow install Devuan onto the HDD |
| 16:46.43 | fsmithred | if you "burn" it to hdd, then you're using isohybrid, and you won't have normal partitions |
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| 16:47.12 | fsmithred | if you image one hard drive like a usb, you can probably install to the other hard drive |
| 16:47.24 | fsmithred | but they'd both need to be blank (or nothing important on them) |
| 16:47.26 | jonadab | Installing to a hard drive is the normal course; but you usually _do_ that by booting from the netinstall CD. |
| 16:48.25 | vivus | so I'll burn the ISO to USB and install that way. thanks |
| 16:48.35 | fsmithred | yes, easy. |
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| 16:53.03 | msiism | was just dealing with https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/devuan_doc:manual:1_jessie:getting_devuan#preparing_media |
| 16:55.02 | msiism | if i have time, i'll put up a machine with 2 hhds, writing the image to one of them and then boot that to install it to the other one. i mean, that sure works with usb-connected hdds. |
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| 17:03.13 | fsmithred | it's also possible to do hd-media install if you can find the files. |
| 17:03.26 | msiism | golinux: have the dark purpy color codes been finalized? if so, are they any different from those you've given me on git? |
| 17:03.46 | msiism | fsmithred: what do you mean by that? |
| 17:05.14 | fsmithred | Found them: https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie/main/installer-amd64/current/images/hd-media/ |
| 17:05.31 | fsmithred | msiism, I got a new set of background images this morning |
| 17:05.43 | fsmithred | I didn't look to see how different they are |
| 17:06.38 | fsmithred | you want them? |
| 17:06.42 | msiism | fsmithred: ok. well, if values have changed, i'll also have to adjust the wdm logos. |
| 17:07.12 | msiism | fsmithred: well, i think i can just go aith the numbers. but if you have links, i'd still be interested. |
| 17:08.06 | fsmithred | I have a zip file. About to email it to you. |
| 17:08.14 | msiism | fsmithred: ok. |
| 17:08.36 | msiism | fsmithred: this hd-media image, how is that supposed to work? |
| 17:08.56 | fsmithred | it's just desktop backgrounds. The grub, isolinux and slim backgrounds need adjustment. |
| 17:09.52 | fsmithred | I don't remember the details of hd-media install. I think you unpack the tarball to get the base system, but I'm not sure what you have to do after that. |
| 17:10.27 | msiism | reminds me of gentoo. so this is not using the debian installer? |
| 17:11.23 | fsmithred | https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/apas02.html.en Last section - you need to copy a CD image, too. |
| 17:11.42 | fsmithred | I've never done one |
| 17:12.18 | msiism | ok, i see |
| 17:14.58 | msiism | fsmithred: got the image pack, thanks |
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| 22:46.45 | VH | hello |
| 22:47.12 | VH | I am new in devuan |
| 22:48.28 | VH | I just installed devuan and I cannot seem to configure network. |
| 22:48.42 | VH | can anyone help? |
| 22:49.29 | fromport | wired of wireless ? |
| 22:49.42 | *** join/#devuan tsarompy (~stompykin@2600:8804:7003:5400::b) |
| 22:50.10 | VH | wired |
| 22:50.50 | fromport | dmesg |grep eth does that show anything ? |
| 22:51.12 | VH | hold on please |
| 22:51.20 | fromport | as root btw |
| 22:51.46 | fromport | or when you do "ifconfig -a" does that show any interfaces apart from "lo" ? |
| 22:52.07 | VH | yes I am on root # |
| 22:52.26 | VH | dmesg |grep eth <--this doesn't show anything |
| 22:52.49 | fromport | do you know what brand ethernet card you have ? |
| 22:52.54 | VH | it shows wland0 |
| 22:53.03 | fromport | is "lspci" installed ? |
| 22:53.04 | VH | hold... |
| 22:53.27 | fromport | so you have a wireless available |
| 22:53.37 | fugitive | try with lspci -nn | grep -i net |
| 22:53.46 | VH | yes lspci is intalled, it sput out a bunch of system info |
| 22:53.56 | VH | ok |
| 22:54.07 | fromport | sorry to cut you short, but i _need_ to run an errand, and will be afk for almost 2 hours. |
| 22:54.16 | VH | ok |
| 22:54.36 | fromport | if you haven't fixed it in 2 hours, will be more than happy to debug further |
| 22:54.42 | VH | thanks |
| 22:55.56 | fugitive | VH: what lspci outputs? |
| 22:57.52 | VH | IT's Qualcomm Atheros AR9462 wireless network adpater [168c:0034] (rev 01) |
| 22:58.17 | VH | you mean the entire lspci... |
| 22:58.40 | fugitive | Does it outputs any NIC except wireless ? |
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| 22:58.54 | VH | hold please |
| 23:02.13 | VH | oh god it's not even recognizing thumb drive... |
| 23:02.26 | fsmithred | what/how did you install? netinstall, cd, dvd, live, and what desktop if any? |
| 23:02.41 | VH | I was going to copy the output to thumb drive and copy over here but I guess I can't |
| 23:02.47 | fsmithred | guess CD |
| 23:02.50 | VH | CD |
| 23:03.00 | VH | CD image to thumb drive |
| 23:03.08 | fsmithred | bad choice, but no way for you to know that |
| 23:03.09 | VH | xfce |
| 23:03.16 | fsmithred | ok |
| 23:03.21 | VH | ok, what would be the best choice? |
| 23:03.26 | fsmithred | I think you can install firmware-atheros |
| 23:03.29 | fsmithred | netinstall or dvd |
| 23:03.46 | VH | ok... I am going to install again using those. |
| 23:03.51 | fsmithred | you probably don't even have synaptic package manager in the menu (under system) |
| 23:03.58 | VH | would you recomend that? |
| 23:04.06 | VH | that's what it seems like |
| 23:04.09 | fsmithred | I recommend that we fix what you have |
| 23:04.16 | fsmithred | this will be ok |
| 23:04.21 | VH | ok let me download and install again |
| 23:04.24 | fsmithred | no |
| 23:04.26 | fsmithred | nono |
| 23:04.30 | VH | ? |
| 23:04.54 | fsmithred | dpkg -i /firmware/firmware-atheros-whatever |
| 23:05.07 | fsmithred | there's a /firmware directory in the root of the CD |
| 23:05.17 | fsmithred | it has packages in it |
| 23:05.23 | fsmithred | you can get the wireless working |
| 23:05.31 | fsmithred | then you can get anything you want |
| 23:07.43 | *** join/#devuan Kaboutur (~user@84.241.213.63) |
| 23:09.04 | VH | uhm, there seems to be no firmware directory in root |
| 23:09.06 | tsarompy | i have the same card and had no issues |
| 23:09.11 | tsarompy | are you connecting with wicd |
| 23:09.14 | VH | ls -al doesn't show it |
| 23:09.26 | fsmithred | hm |
| 23:09.50 | fsmithred | you see pool debian and some others I don't remember? |
| 23:09.54 | fsmithred | install |
| 23:10.20 | fsmithred | root of the CD, not root of the installed system |
| 23:10.29 | VH | OH |
| 23:10.38 | VH | hold on |
| 23:10.59 | fsmithred | just for the hell of it, try 'apt-get install firmware-atheros' and see if it tells you to put in the cdrom |
| 23:11.10 | VH | ok |
| 23:11.42 | tsarompy | wouldnt they need to enable non-free in apt for that |
| 23:12.13 | tsarompy | VH i came in kinda late, what exactly is your problem |
| 23:12.50 | fsmithred | maybe |
| 23:12.51 | VH | Ah, but it seems that the machine doesn't even recognize a usb drive |
| 23:13.13 | fsmithred | can you install with a wired network connection? |
| 23:13.22 | VH | tsarompy no network no usb |
| 23:13.27 | tsarompy | no usb at all??? |
| 23:13.37 | VH | I tried, but it wouldn't recognize |
| 23:13.52 | tsarompy | did you try # lsusb and it came up empty or something |
| 23:13.59 | VH | Is this because I have installed on Acer Chromebook peppy with seabios coreboot |
| 23:14.13 | VH | hold |
| 23:14.16 | fsmithred | I sure don't know the answer to that |
| 23:14.26 | tsarompy | ewwww chromebooks |
| 23:14.32 | VH | haha |
| 23:14.51 | VH | only because I can install my own bios that's why... |
| 23:14.57 | fsmithred | problem as I understand it is that the install was made from CD without a network mirror. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
| 23:14.59 | VH | and it's cheap |
| 23:15.33 | VH | I had network error. So I installed without it. |
| 23:15.44 | fsmithred | what kind of error? |
| 23:15.58 | VH | It recognized the wired network but somehow it couldn't download anything through it |
| 23:16.24 | fsmithred | maybe try again |
| 23:16.26 | *** join/#devuan devil (~quassel@mail.g7y.de) |
| 23:16.37 | fsmithred | you'll get a more complete system |
| 23:16.50 | VH | yup. That's what I am gonna do. |
| 23:17.14 | VH | dvd burn in thumb drive - sounds ok? |
| 23:17.21 | fsmithred | yes |
| 23:17.24 | VH | just making sure |
| 23:17.26 | VH | Thanks. |
| 23:17.29 | fsmithred | yw |
| 23:17.31 | VH | ok. |
| 23:17.44 | VH | Bye! Thanks! |
| 23:17.49 | fsmithred | good luck |
| 23:18.54 | tsarompy | wait |
| 23:19.03 | tsarompy | did you have them check their apt/sources.list |
| 23:19.12 | tsarompy | if they couldnt download any packages?? |
| 23:19.17 | fsmithred | no, but he's going to reinstall |
| 23:19.49 | fsmithred | CD install without mirror leaves you without wicd, without synaptic, and I don't recall what else. |
| 23:20.18 | fsmithred | his sources.list probably just has the cdrom in it |
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| 23:22.56 | tsarompy | ughhh |
| 23:23.00 | tsarompy | why are the repos so slow |
| 23:23.01 | tsarompy | for ascii |
| 23:24.38 | tsarompy | are there no other mirrors? |
| 23:27.51 | fsmithred | what repo you using? |
| 23:29.34 | tsarompy | hm |
| 23:29.36 | tsarompy | hang on |
| 23:29.40 | fsmithred | ok |
| 23:29.53 | tsarompy | http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged |
| 23:30.06 | tsarompy | sometimes its quick sometimes its like 2kb/s |
| 23:30.07 | fsmithred | try pkgmaster.devuan.org instead |
| 23:30.10 | tsarompy | its not my connection |
| 23:30.12 | tsarompy | for all? |
| 23:30.15 | fsmithred | make sure you update devuan-keyring first |
| 23:30.20 | fsmithred | yeah, for all |
| 23:30.50 | tsarompy | pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ? |
| 23:30.54 | fsmithred | yes |
| 23:31.01 | tsarompy | aye |
| 23:31.01 | tsarompy | lets see |
| 23:31.04 | fugitive | try to use nearest mirror instead auto |
| 23:31.18 | fsmithred | should be ascii ascii-updates and ascii-security |
| 23:31.54 | Kaboutur | hmm ascii? is there an update required? |
| 23:32.08 | fsmithred | yes |
| 23:32.21 | tsarompy | aye this is better |
| 23:32.24 | tsarompy | thanks big homie |
| 23:32.27 | fsmithred | yw |
| 23:32.49 | fsmithred | Kaboutur, upgrade to ascii is not required, but it will work |
| 23:33.02 | tsarompy | i upgraded to ascii immediately after install |
| 23:33.08 | tsarompy | havent had any problems |
| 23:33.15 | fsmithred | yeah, it's pretty solid |
| 23:33.19 | Kaboutur | fsmithred: thx. haven't been paying attention. will get the iso. was planning to clean my dtp anyway before xmas |
| 23:33.29 | fsmithred | there are no ascii isos yet |
| 23:33.42 | tsarompy | i dont really even care about systemd i just wanted to try a new debian fork |
| 23:33.43 | Kaboutur | blah. i want dvd actually. not iso ;) |
| 23:33.56 | tsarompy | an ubuntu fork without systemd would be interesting |
| 23:34.03 | Kaboutur | my connection is the most terrible. packets drop and all that |
| 23:34.06 | fsmithred | well, devuan supplies the iso, you have to supply the blank dvd |
| 23:34.10 | tsarompy | i miss PPAs :( |
| 23:38.08 | tsarompy | do you have a laptop or desktop Kaboutur |
| 23:38.30 | Kaboutur | plain old desktop |
| 23:39.02 | tsarompy | ohh |
| 23:39.08 | tsarompy | take it to a friends house |
| 23:39.13 | tsarompy | use their internets |
| 23:39.29 | Kaboutur | saving up to buy a proper thing |
| 23:39.31 | tsarompy | do you have wifi networks around you |
| 23:39.47 | tsarompy | ive asked a neighbor if i could pay them per month to use their wifi |
| 23:39.51 | tsarompy | most people say yes |
| 23:40.11 | tsarompy | youd be surprised how many people say yes and dont ask for money too |
| 23:40.26 | tsarompy | i opened my network for my neighbors |
| 23:40.28 | tsarompy | im like |
| 23:40.32 | tsarompy | help yourself just dont go crazy |
| 23:40.48 | Kaboutur | not much because a lot of Wifi Contamination here. I guess people with cheap hi-powered WiFi toys. It blocks everything |
| 23:41.26 | tsarompy | theres always social engineering |
| 23:41.28 | Kaboutur | I'm in a Wifi beam but it's not 802.11. Stupid toys. |
| 23:41.33 | tsarompy | find a reason to be in their house |
| 23:41.38 | tsarompy | and when they leave the room |
| 23:41.44 | tsarompy | run over to the modem and look for a sticker on it |
| 23:41.51 | tsarompy | with the WEP pass on it |
| 23:41.59 | tsarompy | most people dont bother to change the password the company puts on it |
| 23:42.21 | Kaboutur | WEP? did I join this channel in 1999? :) |
| 23:42.32 | tsarompy | for some reason cox's modems here use wep |
| 23:42.38 | tsarompy | i dont get it either but whatever |
| 23:42.41 | Kaboutur | most models have a reaver key |
| 23:43.01 | tsarompy | i think aircrack is evil |
| 23:43.08 | tsarompy | i wont use it |
| 23:43.20 | tsarompy | i dont like snooping on peoples network traffic either |
| 23:43.21 | Kaboutur | this is terrible. I forgot what the actual name is for pixydust! this really is terrible |
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| 23:43.24 | *** join/#devuan metxn (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 23:43.32 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 23:44.05 | tsarompy | i really think that when those companies install wireless routers they should ask the customer if they want the network locked or not |
| 23:44.10 | tsarompy | i think most people wouldnt care |
| 23:44.13 | Kaboutur | tsarompy: that's right. besides it's illegal to do such a thing |
| 23:44.44 | tsarompy | i refuse to password protect my wifi |
| 23:44.52 | tsarompy | the internet should be available to everyone |
| 23:44.57 | tsarompy | except pedophiles maybe |
| 23:45.17 | Kaboutur | fsmithred: WPS was the word I was looking for , it's easier than looking up WEP stickers don't you think? |
| 23:45.35 | tsarompy | anyone here use ceres? |
| 23:45.39 | tsarompy | is it worth it? |
| 23:45.43 | tsarompy | compared to ascii |
| 23:45.56 | tsarompy | i prefer debian sid but im a bit wary of this OS so far |
| 23:46.15 | Kaboutur | why? |
| 23:46.31 | tsarompy | because ive been using it for one day |
| 23:46.36 | fsmithred | Kaboutur, I don't understand |
| 23:46.45 | tsarompy | and i dont mind if ceres breaks a few apps i just dont want it to destroy the system i guess |
| 23:47.25 | fsmithred | WPA? |
| 23:47.29 | djph | Kaboutur: ugh, wps makes wep look like the best security on the planet. |
| 23:48.06 | Kaboutur | fsmithred: you were talking about getting internet at your neighbors...Physically? just press the WPS key and connect |
| 23:48.19 | fsmithred | no, that wasn't me |
| 23:48.48 | Kaboutur | fsmithred: I'm sorry. that was for tsarompy indeed |
| 23:49.41 | Kaboutur | mine have 2 internet lines and 2-3 mobile subscriptions. they are not into sharing though |
| 23:49.54 | tsarompy | alright im doin it |
| 23:49.58 | tsarompy | upgrading to ceres |
| 23:50.00 | tsarompy | cross fingers |
| 23:50.09 | tsarompy | doing it in tty just in case |
| 23:50.14 | tsarompy | getting decent speeds too |
| 23:50.18 | tsarompy | 4MB/s down |
| 23:50.31 | tsarompy | i require a fresher plasma desktop |
| 23:50.33 | tsarompy | kde4eva |
| 23:51.34 | Kaboutur | k |
| 23:53.24 | Xenguy | makes popcorn ... |
| 23:53.27 | tsarompy | im excited |
| 23:53.38 | tsarompy | lots of updates for KDE |
| 23:53.53 | tsarompy | is a kde fanboy |
| 23:53.56 | Xenguy | .oO( wait for it ) |
| 23:54.19 | tsarompy | anyone here ever use the liquorix kernel? |
| 23:54.23 | tsarompy | it looks like a dead project |
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