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| 00:42.07 | tim__ | is there a systemd-free media server I can install in Devuan? |
| 00:42.24 | AlexLikeRock | media ? |
| 00:42.27 | AlexLikeRock | example ???? |
| 00:42.52 | tim__ | an equivalent to Logitech Media Server |
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| 00:43.16 | tim__ | podcasts to stream via a chromecast, mostly |
| 00:43.53 | AlexLikeRock | like KODY ? |
| 00:44.26 | tim__ | I've heard of Kodi, but I suspect it's now systemd-dependent now |
| 00:44.33 | AlexLikeRock | https://kodi.tv/ |
| 00:44.45 | AlexLikeRock | try ;-) |
| 00:44.47 | AlexLikeRock | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.14 | AlexLikeRock | you can try OLD versions of KODY |
| 00:46.10 | AlexLikeRock | # kodi repos |
| 00:46.10 | AlexLikeRock | # starting with debian jessie, debian provides kodi via its backports repository |
| 00:46.10 | AlexLikeRock | # remember: those packages are not supported by team kodi |
| 00:46.10 | AlexLikeRock | deb http://http.debian.net/debian jessie-backports main |
| 00:46.13 | AlexLikeRock | :)} |
| 00:46.26 | tim__ | so there's no list of systemd-free third party packages or conversely, those that are dependent on the contagion? |
| 00:47.02 | AlexLikeRock | read : http://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Install_Kodi_for_Linux |
| 00:47.29 | tim__ | I just don't want to accidentally ruin my install by pulling in Poettering garbage |
| 00:47.39 | AlexLikeRock | hahahah |
| 00:47.50 | AlexLikeRock | ask to kody cannel |
| 00:48.06 | tim__ | but I will RTFM first, them their channel. Thanks. |
| 00:48.44 | AlexLikeRock | #kodi |
| 00:51.30 | fugitive_ | hey tim__ check Plex as well |
| 00:51.47 | fugitive_ | not sure is it non sysd though.. but worth to check |
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| 01:04.27 | TotalOblivion | plex is non systemd |
| 01:05.09 | TotalOblivion | and actually works great with openrc. But it requires avahi (in case someone is completely anti-poettering) |
| 01:05.37 | TotalOblivion | tim__, ^ |
| 01:10.29 | DPA | By the way, kodi is available in jessie-backports |
| 01:10.49 | AlexLikeRock | tim__ its gone DPA |
| 01:11.00 | TotalOblivion | oh boo :( |
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| 01:15.55 | blinkdog | From the source package kodi-15.2+dfsg1 |
| 01:15.57 | blinkdog | debian/rules:@echo "Shipping systemd kodi.service file as an example only" |
| 01:15.57 | blinkdog | tools/Linux/kodi.sh.in: if command_exists systemd-coredumpctl; then |
| 01:15.57 | blinkdog | tools/Linux/kodi.sh.in: systemd-coredumpctl dump -o core ${bin_name}.bin > /dev/null 2>&1 |
| 01:15.58 | blinkdog | xbmc/powermanagement/linux/LogindUPowerSyscall.cpp: // recommended method by systemd devs. The seats directory |
| 01:15.58 | blinkdog | xbmc/powermanagement/linux/LogindUPowerSyscall.cpp: return (access("/run/systemd/seats/", F_OK) >= 0); |
| 01:15.59 | blinkdog | xbmc/cores/DllLoader/exports/emu_kernel32.cpp: //char* systemdir = "special://xbmc/system/mplayer/codecs"; |
| 01:16.01 | blinkdog | xbmc/cores/DllLoader/exports/emu_kernel32.cpp: //unsigned int len = strlen(systemdir); |
| 01:16.05 | blinkdog | xbmc/cores/DllLoader/exports/emu_kernel32.cpp: //strcpy(lpBuffer, systemdir); |
| 01:16.07 | blinkdog | xbmc/cores/DllLoader/exports/emu_kernel32.cpp: //CLog::Log(LOGDEBUG,"KERNEL32!GetSystemDirectoryA(0x%x, %d) => %s", lpBuffer, uSize, systemdir); |
| 01:16.13 | AlexLikeRock | FLOOOOOOOD! |
| 01:16.24 | AlexLikeRock | blinkdog, call down |
| 01:16.49 | blinkdog | Sorry, didn't mean to flood, was just posting the output of fgrep -R "systemd" |
| 01:18.07 | blinkdog | the source package looks pretty clean; almost nothing, but what is there is wrapped like if(SYSTEMD) { doSystemDThing(); } |
| 01:18.46 | blinkdog | no hard assumptions that systemd is present |
| 01:20.19 | TotalOblivion | is extensive knowledge required and a great time investment to be able to maintain 1-3 packages? |
| 01:22.27 | blinkdog | Depends on the package. If upstream is sane and nice, and don't release too often, it's probably not so bad. |
| 01:23.14 | blinkdog | Big packages with lots of releases and/or hostile upstream makes things more difficult, requiring more effort |
| 01:23.56 | TotalOblivion | One needs to keep in track with new releases all the time, and make the necessary dependency changes all the time mostly? |
| 01:24.32 | blinkdog | Yep. Bringing a brand new package in is usually more effort than updating an existing one. |
| 01:25.08 | TotalOblivion | Mhm. I see. And it'd be best to have it used for all init systems available as well? |
| 01:25.11 | blinkdog | And if the package gets lots of security updates you pretty much have to stay on top of it or leave your users vulnerable |
| 01:25.43 | TotalOblivion | Okey. It does require effort it seems. Especially for newbies :P |
| 01:27.25 | TotalOblivion | Thanks for the feedback blinkdog :) |
| 01:33.00 | Xenguy | Create a munster, then you must feed it ;P |
| 01:33.31 | TotalOblivion | XD |
| 01:39.39 | TotalOblivion | oh! and i expect bash is required and it suffices? or does more coding knowledge required? |
| 01:40.26 | blinkdog | usually more coding knowledge, because there will be patches that need to be applied |
| 01:40.57 | blinkdog | sometimes they are bug fixes upstream hasn't incorporated, so those you kind of just get and apply, no work |
| 01:41.18 | blinkdog | others are going to be distro specific stuff, patches that you (as the maintainer) need to make |
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| 01:42.33 | KingOfTheMatrice | Greetings, peoples of init freedom. |
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| 01:46.19 | Xenguy | Init freedom lover, welcome :) |
| 01:46.29 | TotalOblivion | blinkdog, python would suffice? |
| 01:48.12 | KingOfTheMatrice | Xenguy: Thanks bro. Spread the love ;) |
| 01:48.31 | blinkdog | depends on the package; if it's a python package, then probably yeah |
| 01:48.44 | blinkdog | if it's a C++ package, you might want to tap a C++ dev to review the patch |
| 01:49.43 | Xenguy | Sounds scary, haha |
| 01:50.40 | Xenguy | I could be completely wrong, but maybe half the battle is just knowing how to diff 2 sets of code? |
| 01:50.43 | blinkdog | Don't be discouraged though, they say necessity is the mother of invention, it's also the mother of learning |
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| 01:51.23 | blinkdog | If you're packaging up an application, even a crappy package you can install is better than no package at all |
| 01:51.36 | KingOfTheMatrice | I've always thought Failure is the Mother of Learning; especially when Failure was not intrinsic |
| 01:52.36 | blinkdog | It's when you get to core system stuff that you have to take more care; it's one of the reasons the systemd guys catch so much hate |
| 01:52.41 | Xenguy | Failure can breed Necessity? |
| 01:53.57 | blinkdog | Yes, the failure of the systemd guys bred the necessity of forking Debian ;-) |
| 01:54.04 | Xenguy | zing |
| 01:54.14 | Xenguy | Love it |
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| 01:54.59 | Xenguy | I wonder what Ian would think now? |
| 01:55.05 | Xenguy | Rhetorical question |
| 01:55.13 | Xenguy | RIP Ian |
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| 15:58.27 | ata2001_ | Hi! |
| 15:58.34 | AlexLikeRock | hi |
| 15:58.45 | ata2001_ | Can I set up devuan with OpenRC? |
| 16:00.37 | nepugia | yes, apt-get install openrc if i remember correctly |
| 16:00.55 | AlexLikeRock | yes ata2001_ |
| 16:01.27 | ata2001_ | that's awesome! |
| 16:02.05 | ata2001_ | I found my new distro :) |
| 16:02.08 | AlexLikeRock | :) tanks to DEVUAN DEVELOPERS and hard work |
| 16:03.23 | nepugia | i actually had a debian jessie with openrc for some time before switching it to devuan jessie |
| 16:03.35 | nepugia | you can also do that on debian jessie :p |
| 16:04.08 | ata2001_ | But it does not work on stretch or buster. |
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| 16:07.00 | ata2001_ | Anyone using Ceres on desktop? |
| 16:07.16 | nepugia | what is ceres? |
| 16:07.30 | ata2001_ | sid |
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| 16:08.45 | nepugia | oh, you ment the version i thought you ment a software |
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| 16:10.42 | ata2001_ | yeah |
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| 20:54.35 | gnu_srs1 | Hi, regarding firefox vs palemoon: good news for Devuan? https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Basilisk-Web-Browser |
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| 21:04.24 | Tharn | Don't see the appeal tbh. Pale Moon has always played catch-up in the past with FF features. They couldn't implement ES6 Promises or MSE on their own and will run into problems again when the next big new technology rolls around that they'd have to implement from scratch. This 'fork to end all forks' is living on borrowed time. |
| 21:05.16 | Tharn | Not saying it's all bad. This is just one point that the PM dev blissfully ignores. |
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| 22:04.21 | MinceR | as long as firefox development runs in reverse, it will still remain better than firefox |
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| 22:46.09 | Tharn | Yeah, don't really know what they were doing with the last 20 versions or so. FF57 is pretty good though. |
| 22:58.17 | TotalOblivion | It's really crazy how web is based on actually 2 major browsers nowadays... |
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| 23:01.00 | MinceR | and they both suck |
| 23:01.34 | TotalOblivion | Heh. |
| 23:02.07 | TotalOblivion | I'm not a tech-savy but I feel like I'm strained and force-fed something that doesn't "feel" right :P |
| 23:02.15 | TotalOblivion | Dunno how else to explain it |
| 23:02.36 | TotalOblivion | I'll try qutebrowser and inox. |
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| 23:10.23 | greenjeans | Trying 57 now, it seemed pretty nice until I went to youtube and sound failed completely (requires Pulseaudio) |
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| 23:20.19 | Xenguy | haha |
| 23:20.38 | Xenguy | hugs his old add-ons... |
| 23:21.20 | Xenguy | I mean jeez, I'd probably just give up the WWW if I couldn't have my Vimperator |
| 23:21.46 | Xenguy | But this is what Mozilla has done: word is Vimperator will be no more |
| 23:22.38 | Xenguy | There is Pentadactyl, which is fine, but I do prefer some of V's better design polish, over P. |
| 23:23.23 | Xenguy | Simple things, like having Control-l still work to focus the location bar in the browser... |
| 23:23.24 | fsmithred | greenjeans, I tried 57, and for me it failed as soon as noscript wouldn't work. Worst part was it screwed up noscript when I went back to ff-esr. |
| 23:23.56 | Xenguy | Or not have to hack my config file so that I can still use one (not two) Ctrl-V to paste |
| 23:24.10 | Xenguy | oh no |
| 23:24.44 | greenjeans | @fsr: dang...it was looking pretty good too, seems way faster than last versions of FF |
| 23:24.44 | Xenguy | fsmithred: Jeez, so noscript is an add-on casualty also? That's actually really bad. |
| 23:24.55 | fsmithred | it's a deal-breaker |
| 23:25.17 | greenjeans | Wonder if there's a way to use apulse instead of pulse? |
| 23:25.18 | Xenguy | noscript is non-negotiable, for me |
| 23:25.20 | Tharn | You can substitute with uMatrix.. not sure if it covers 100% |
| 23:25.20 | fsmithred | blows my mind that we're expected to let everyone in the world run code on our computers |
| 23:25.42 | Xenguy | Tharn: Good idea, I'd have to research that a bit |
| 23:26.01 | Tharn | But it definitely covers third party requests, scrips, xhr, frames and stuff like that |
| 23:26.09 | Xenguy | fsmithred: JS is dangerous these days, I won't allow it to run, except by special permission |
| 23:26.09 | fsmithred | I think I tried uMatrix for about 15 minutes and couldn't figure it out. |
| 23:26.41 | Tharn | It's pretty visual, so there's a pattern you have to learn with the UI. |
| 23:26.54 | Tharn | Or you could just edit the text file ;) |
| 23:26.58 | fsmithred | yeah, I guess. |
| 23:27.06 | fsmithred | oh, text file is good. |
| 23:27.31 | fsmithred | but noscript was a no-brainer to figure out |
| 23:27.40 | fsmithred | I'm spoiled |
| 23:27.44 | Xenguy | Tharn: It's coming back to me, and if it's the same one I'm thinking of, it struck me as a power user tool, and very fine-grained, whereas Noscript is simple to install and get up and running faster |
| 23:27.58 | fsmithred | yeah, that |
| 23:28.02 | Tharn | Xenguy, yeah it is definitely that. |
| 23:28.10 | Xenguy | Still, good to know |
| 23:28.17 | Tharn | uBlock can actually do *some* of the same filtering, but not all of it |
| 23:28.51 | Xenguy | Huh, so adding to to-do list: Find equivalent functionality for Noscript, if possible. |
| 23:29.07 | TotalOblivion | greenjeans, that's one of the main reasons i don't like ff anymore. why must pulseaudio be a dependency? T_T |
| 23:29.30 | Xenguy | I use uBlock Origin, and it seems to work fine (they say it has a light resource footprint) |
| 23:30.01 | greenjeans | Well apparently it's possible to compile with ALSA...looks like Gentoo is already doing it |
| 23:30.02 | Tharn | I hated the new direction up until I tried 57 to be honest. Hated that they deprecated xul as well. But I see why they did it. |
| 23:30.28 | Xenguy | TotalOblivion: I feel that Mozilla has been taken over by Suits, and has pretty much jumped the shark, with respect to their original mission (fast, light, etc.) |
| 23:30.49 | TotalOblivion | greenjeans, I've been told you can still compile it that way yeah. But I think it won't be that way for a long time still... |
| 23:31.20 | Xenguy | Tharn: I can see why they did it, in the position they're in, but I don't want to go that direction myself |
| 23:31.23 | TotalOblivion | I get that feeling as well Xenguy |
| 23:31.29 | TotalOblivion | Makes me sad :( |
| 23:31.52 | Tharn | It has been getting slower and slower since its inception pretty much. I can't think of a time when they markedly improved performance until now. So it just kinda bloated up.. wouldn't blame that one on the suits |
| 23:31.55 | Xenguy | It is a sad day, but the plus side is they have a faster browser now, so that's at least something |
| 23:32.09 | greenjeans | yep, it is much faster |
| 23:32.21 | TotalOblivion | sighs. |
| 23:32.32 | greenjeans | honors my GTK2 theme too right from the get-go, that's nice |
| 23:32.32 | fsmithred | only because the last couple have been much slower |
| 23:32.55 | Tharn | It doesn't honor my third party Windows theme, haha. Dangit |
| 23:32.56 | TotalOblivion | It's weird that the way web has been designed a browser now actually needs corp funding and corp groups to be on par with the 2 beasts |
| 23:33.05 | Xenguy | I decided to Pale Moon browser, which is basically a fork of older FF version, then developed further, independently |
| 23:33.34 | Xenguy | *to try |
| 23:33.34 | TotalOblivion | Xenguy, how is pale moon? I've been reading varying comments an reviews on it |
| 23:33.56 | Xenguy | I find it a good experience so far... |
| 23:34.00 | greenjeans | I use Palemoon and it's the default in Vuu-do, I like it, it's solid |
| 23:34.10 | Xenguy | It's snappy |
| 23:34.18 | greenjeans | it's quicker than FF that's for sure |
| 23:34.52 | greenjeans | all things considered it's the best choice I have found for now |
| 23:34.56 | TotalOblivion | Will give it a go then |
| 23:34.58 | Xenguy | On windows, it seems to leak memory if you leave it going for a few days, so I just use Session Manager to save a session, kill it, then reinvoke, and that works fine |
| 23:34.58 | Tharn | PM never fixed those old HWA issues for me.. used it for a long time, but in the end it was always a struggle to get things to work |
| 23:35.10 | greenjeans | I keep testing though, that's why i'm trying FF 57 now |
| 23:35.18 | TotalOblivion | the other choice I have is actually inox. Chromium stripped from google spaying |
| 23:36.05 | greenjeans | Have tried a bunch of browsers that claimed to be Chrome without the spyware...with mixed results |
| 23:36.09 | TotalOblivion | but it's still chromium |
| 23:36.23 | greenjeans | I remember the Iron browser, it still around? |
| 23:36.42 | Tharn | I'd only use Inox or the Chromium builds floating around.. those rebranded ones are all horrible |
| 23:36.45 | TotalOblivion | SPRWare? |
| 23:37.00 | Tharn | Iron is shady as hell |
| 23:37.21 | greenjeans | haven't tried it in years |
| 23:37.53 | Tharn | If you're on windows, just grab one of these from http://chromium.woolyss.com/ |
| 23:38.38 | greenjeans | okay, let me jump in the time machine and go back a decade or so when i was on windoze |
| 23:38.43 | greenjeans | lol |
| 23:38.53 | greenjeans | i also had funny haircuts back then |
| 23:39.00 | Xenguy | haha |
| 23:39.24 | Xenguy | it's a work thing here |
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| 23:39.48 | Xenguy | They just won't let me have a linux desktop like I asked them |
| 23:39.54 | greenjeans | this is a real bummer, it really is refershingly quick |
| 23:39.59 | Tharn | They are afraid you'll hack them |
| 23:40.26 | Xenguy | I expect you're right |
| 23:40.33 | fsmithred | Xenguy, if it's just a matter of they don't want linux on their hard drives, use a usb |
| 23:40.57 | greenjeans | I guess somebody who is slicker than me could build it with ALSA support...i'll paypal anybody who does it 5 bucks right now ;) |
| 23:41.04 | fsmithred | but you do need to ask |
| 23:41.25 | Xenguy | USB ports are disabled at work ( that was a bummer the day that happened) |
| 23:41.53 | greenjeans | Xenguy: Optical drive for livecd? |
| 23:41.54 | fsmithred | oh, nm. paranoia level is higher than your need for linux |
| 23:42.10 | TotalOblivion | linux = hacking is beyond me |
| 23:42.45 | fsmithred | save the live cd for the day that some windows virus brings down the whole system |
| 23:43.54 | Xenguy | They have that Bitlocker mechanism going, which I think maybe puts the kaibosh on all these creative schemes, tho not 100% sure |
| 23:44.03 | Tharn | Or the day your systemd workplace shits the bed. It's a-comin' |
| 23:44.17 | Xenguy | Is it harddrive encryption? |
| 23:44.34 | Tharn | Yeah |
| 23:44.53 | Xenguy | hopes and prays for a major systemd exploit one day |
| 23:45.47 | Tharn | Wasn't there one posted here just the other day? |
| 23:47.02 | Tharn | Something about pretty serious privilege escalation that they fixed casually and quietly, lol. |
| 23:47.46 | Xenguy | oh really, hrm? Hacker News is letting me down, if so |
| 23:48.30 | Tharn | Mightve been on #artix |
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| 23:55.20 | ata2001 | uhh guys |
| 23:55.54 | greenjeans | FSR: Noscript website says they should have new addon ready by end of this week. In the meantime you could pass the time by building 57 with ALSA support....;) |
| 23:56.06 | fsmithred | yeah, right. |
| 23:56.09 | ata2001 | it wants to remove my kernel if I install openrc on ascii |
| 23:56.20 | greenjeans | i will give you beer |
| 23:56.34 | fsmithred | what directions are you following, and are the missing libraries in the repo now? |
| 23:56.48 | fsmithred | it's been at least a couple months since I tried it |
| 23:57.24 | fsmithred | ata2001, ^^^ |
| 23:57.41 | fsmithred | brb |
| 23:57.46 | greenjeans | https://hackademix.net/2017/11/14/double-noscript/ |
| 23:58.08 | ata2001 | fsmithred: `apt-get install openrc` |
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