| 00:01.03 | gnarface | maybe you guys can help me with a hardware question |
| 00:02.10 | parazyd | gnarface: what's up? |
| 00:02.21 | gnarface | i'm looking for a video card with native linux hardware h264 decoding support at least as good as the original raspberry pi and preferrably comparatively as low in power consumption as well as cost |
| 00:02.42 | AlexLikeRock | YEAH gnarface |
| 00:02.44 | AlexLikeRock | ask |
| 00:03.03 | AlexLikeRock | mmmmmm |
| 00:03.10 | AlexLikeRock | i past |
| 00:03.13 | gnarface | obviously i could spend 300$ and just put a gtx 1060 ti in the thing, after sawing a hole in the side of the case and upgrading the power supply for another 60$, but frankly the purpose is not worth that cost, especially since i could just buy a SteamLink for 20$ |
| 00:03.31 | parazyd | can't any video card do that? |
| 00:03.31 | gnarface | please |
| 00:04.06 | gnarface | parazyd: turns out no, it's actually a ridiculously rare feature if you cull for [drivers steam will still support] |
| 00:04.52 | gnarface | parazyd: anything new enough to have proprietary drivers steam supports is too expensive. anything old enough to be laying around no longer has proprietary drivers to support the hardware feature (in most cases the open source ones don't support the feature either) |
| 00:05.25 | parazyd | no idea, sry |
| 00:06.07 | gnarface | presumably SOME intel onboard stuff has this feature, sometimes, but after some testing, i found out it's rarely included at the *hardware level* except for some older stuff from 5-6 years ago that - you guessed it never gained open source support for that one feature at the driver level |
| 00:06.13 | AlexLikeRock | any on have problems with HPLIP ???? |
| 00:06.38 | gnarface | i would just use the raspberry pi frankly, but there's no Steam build for arm |
| 00:06.48 | AlexLikeRock | warning: This installer cannot install 'cups-devel' for your distro/OS and/or version. |
| 00:06.56 | AlexLikeRock | :-/ |
| 00:07.05 | AlexLikeRock | i choice "DEBIAN" |
| 00:07.09 | parazyd | gnarface: why do you need it for steam though? |
| 00:07.43 | AlexLikeRock | Choose the name of the distro/OS that most closely matches your system: |
| 00:07.44 | AlexLikeRock | Num. Distro/OS Name |
| 00:07.44 | AlexLikeRock | ---- ------------------------ |
| 00:07.44 | AlexLikeRock | 0 Mepis |
| 00:07.44 | AlexLikeRock | 1 Debian |
| 00:07.44 | gnarface | parazyd: in-home streaming from my desktop to the projector room |
| 00:07.44 | AlexLikeRock | 2 SUSE Linux |
| 00:08.02 | parazyd | gnarface: of games? |
| 00:08.10 | parazyd | oh right, steamlink |
| 00:08.19 | parazyd | yeah, no idea |
| 00:08.29 | gnarface | parazyd: yea, specifically of games. the latency of software decoding for h264 is immaterial for just watching movies. i'm not having problems with that part. |
| 00:09.22 | gnarface | critically it brings the response time down from a fluctuating ~30-90ms delay to <10ms static |
| 00:10.16 | gnarface | (which is, after significant testing, the difference between being able to play effectively past mediocre difficulty of various games or not) |
| 00:11.10 | gnarface | and the temporary fix of just dropping the resolution down to something gameboy-esque kinda ruins the point of streaming it to a projector in the first place |
| 00:12.01 | gnarface | seriously, the black out on this one hardware feature for anything older than about 3 years is ... suspiciously thorough |
| 00:13.01 | gnarface | so i was just thinking maybe someone sells a cheapo card that does it i simply haven't heard of |
| 00:13.26 | gnarface | it would be the type of thing i'd imagine smaller brands pushing some units for without much advertising |
| 00:14.19 | gnarface | i would even buy some sort of intel HD office desktop card |
| 00:15.08 | gnarface | but there isn't reliable enough information on the ones of those that have the hardware feature that have it also supported in software on Linux for it to be safe to just guess and buy one without a first-hand report of it actually tested and working recently |
| 00:16.09 | gnarface | (it doesn't help that most people only use h264 for video and that the software decoding is so good these days 99% of linux users think they're using hardware decoding even when they're not) |
| 00:16.27 | parazyd | yeah |
| 00:17.01 | gnarface | i was pretty surprised actually by it. the old core2duo isn't using more than 12% or so of 1 core to decode or encode it. |
| 00:17.23 | gnarface | on average, anyway |
| 00:17.32 | gnarface | it's the spikes in scene complexity that kill it for gaming |
| 00:18.00 | parazyd | so the steamlink isn't a dedicated decoder/encoder on its own? |
| 00:18.15 | gnarface | uh, it is, i believe |
| 00:18.55 | gnarface | i don't have one here |
| 00:19.02 | gnarface | haven't even seen one in person actually |
| 00:19.04 | parazyd | i think it should work out |
| 00:19.13 | parazyd | i saw it was super cheap |
| 00:19.29 | parazyd | as long as you buy some game with it. but ends up about $20 in the end |
| 00:19.30 | gnarface | i was just avoiding it because of principle |
| 00:19.49 | gnarface | i've got spare hardware here that's better |
| 00:19.56 | gnarface | or would be, if it weren't for the driver problem |
| 00:20.11 | parazyd | yeah. i'm just interested in it to investigate its hardware |
| 00:20.31 | gnarface | they also don't really support installing devuan on it :-p |
| 00:20.58 | gnarface | that enters into the decision a bit too |
| 00:21.00 | parazyd | hence me wanting it |
| 00:21.37 | gnarface | alright, i'm way offtopic i guess again. sorry about that. |
| 00:22.13 | gnarface | if we could find out an answer to this though, it could be very valuable for devuan adoption |
| 00:22.28 | gnarface | *nobody* likes SteamOS |
| 00:22.36 | gnarface | (not even Valve, it seems) |
| 00:22.43 | parazyd | it's just an arm soc |
| 00:22.47 | parazyd | and runs mainline linux |
| 00:22.50 | *** mode/#devuan [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 00:23.01 | *** topic/#devuan by DocScrutinizer05 -> Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:23.06 | *** mode/#devuan [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 00:23.08 | gnarface | does it? i thought it ran some proprietary fork of ubuntu 12 |
| 00:23.39 | parazyd | no idea about the distro |
| 00:23.43 | parazyd | i'm talking about the kernel |
| 00:24.05 | gnarface | yea, that's surprising to me that it's working on mainline now, since steamlib still relies on a bunch of ancient ubuntu 12 library versions |
| 00:24.07 | parazyd | supposedly there's even an open source driver for the gpu somewhere |
| 00:24.19 | gnarface | interesting. which gpu is it? is it also that mali one? |
| 00:24.20 | parazyd | you're thinking about userspace |
| 00:24.27 | parazyd | i don't really care about userspace |
| 00:24.42 | parazyd | i dunno. it's definitely NOT mali |
| 00:24.49 | gnarface | hmmm. |
| 00:25.07 | gnarface | maybe i'll just admit defeat and buy one. |
| 00:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | !factoid |
| 00:25.28 | infobot | methinks factoid is if you want to define new (or redefine existing) factoids to something that's relevant in devuan namespace only, please *always* do it like "!#devuan NEWFACTOID is Someting That shows in channel #devuan only", I.E. add a leading "#devuan " to the factoid key. The bot serves 120 channels! |
| 00:25.38 | parazyd | yeah now i'm inclined to get a few to hack on :D |
| 00:27.34 | parazyd | here it is |
| 00:27.35 | parazyd | https://imgur.com/a/gxMj8 |
| 00:29.34 | parazyd | and there's a way to get a root shell :p |
| 00:29.35 | parazyd | https://mcd1992.blogspot.nl/2015/10/alright-this-was-lot-easier-than-i.html |
| 00:33.03 | gnarface | in the initial launch reveiws, people were complaining of the same types of problems i was having with the PC client but maybe they've fixed the drivers now |
| 00:34.17 | gnarface | wait if it's just an arm SOC then there has to be a steam client arm build around somewhere... |
| 00:34.26 | gnarface | gets an idea |
| 00:42.31 | guru | yeah im here |
| 00:42.35 | guru | i havent formatted yet fixing another devuan box |
| 00:43.35 | guru | pkgmaster oh okay |
| 00:49.05 | fromport | i am having troubles to get webcam recognized in ceres using gtkam. when i say "add camera, it already recognized the camera, but when I hit "apply" i get "could initialize camera". i looks like a permission problem of some kind |
| 00:50.47 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telst4r@fsf/member/telst4r) |
| 00:50.57 | gnarface | fromport: check out v4l2-ctl or uvcdynctrl (one or the other should work) first to probe it for supported modes, then try to see if you can load it up with vlc as a video capture device |
| 00:51.36 | gnarface | fromport: i don't know anything about gtkam, sorry. but you may be able to figure your own solution with these tools |
| 00:51.48 | fromport | will try, thanks |
| 00:52.06 | guru | i'm going to try a live cd if that doesn't work its time to rage format |
| 00:52.19 | guru | err if that does work then it is |
| 00:53.08 | gnarface | good luck, guru (though it's probably worth mentioning that if it does indeed work probably you can just diff the kernel config from the jessie and ceres kernels and find out what got shut off) |
| 00:53.14 | guru | true |
| 00:53.24 | guru | thanks |
| 00:53.47 | gnarface | no problem |
| 00:53.58 | gnarface | though i guess there's no guarantee it's not a udev issue |
| 00:54.03 | fromport | gnarface: vlc works out of the box with the webcam (usb) |
| 00:54.21 | gnarface | fromport: well that makes it easy to blame on gtkam |
| 00:54.55 | fromport | will run an strace, that might give a pointer if it is a permission problem |
| 00:54.57 | fsmithred | might be worth trying update/upgrade with the new repos |
| 00:54.58 | gnarface | fromport: often it's just as simple as needing to manually configure the software to expect the right resolution/framerate/pixel_format |
| 00:55.01 | fsmithred | guru |
| 00:55.52 | gnarface | oh guru yea, your sources.list had outdated hosts, after all. mine are outdated too. it might matter. |
| 00:56.56 | guru | yeah i jsut updated them |
| 00:56.59 | guru | let me show you what im using now |
| 00:57.00 | guru | -just |
| 00:57.37 | guru | https://pastebin.com/VrfFr4fn |
| 00:57.54 | guru | oops need to remove non-free contrib from updates and security |
| 00:58.10 | fsmithred | why? |
| 00:58.19 | guru | there's contrib and non-free security updates atm? |
| 00:58.39 | fsmithred | I would expect packages in contrib and non-free to get security patches |
| 00:58.44 | guru | ah |
| 00:59.04 | guru | i figured that meant outside of the main repo |
| 00:59.39 | guru | which meant anyone could contribute whatever, not sure why i thought that |
| 00:59.52 | fsmithred | no, not anyone can add stuff to debian repos |
| 01:00.00 | guru | oh does it mirror debians repos? |
| 01:00.18 | fsmithred | they're categorized according to how free they are |
| 01:00.49 | fsmithred | amprolla sucks packages from debian and filters out the ones that get replaced with devuanized versions |
| 01:01.03 | guru | so long as a package doesn't make use of systemd, it's immediately mirrored to devuan? |
| 01:01.11 | fsmithred | note that some of your deb lines end with merged/ |
| 01:01.17 | guru | yup |
| 01:01.33 | guru | ah got it |
| 01:01.39 | fsmithred | yeah, and the pkgmaster repo updates every couple of minutes |
| 01:01.55 | guru | i guess there's chaos if a systemd package gets updated |
| 01:02.08 | guru | err a package it has to be nulled from |
| 01:02.08 | *** join/#devuan SuicideJunkie (~nick@CPE000f6638c2b8-CM0c473de90d90.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:02.12 | fsmithred | not if it's a blacklisted package |
| 01:02.37 | fsmithred | those dependencies don't change often |
| 01:02.38 | *** join/#devuan fugitive (~fugitive@95.211.147.186) |
| 01:19.22 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 01:19.25 | guru | meh i had to format my dvr after install. I was getting attempting to read or write outside of hd0 and grub repair was failing |
| 01:19.48 | guru | maybe the iso image i downloaded is corrupt |
| 01:19.58 | guru | the hdd is perfectly fine |
| 01:20.11 | guru | i did a SMART scan |
| 01:29.52 | *** join/#devuan guru (~guru@2601:196:8700:c91:3252:cbff:fec5:6f94) |
| 01:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | !factoid |
| 01:32.34 | infobot | it has been said that factoid is if you want to define new (or redefine existing) factoids to something that's relevant in devuan namespace only, please *always* do it like "!#devuan NEWFACTOID is Someting That shows in channel #devuan only", I.E. add a leading "#devuan " to the factoid key. The bot serves 120 channels!, or see !help literal, or see !literal factoid |
| 01:32.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | !literal factoid |
| 01:32.54 | infobot | "#devuan factoid" is "if you want to define new (or redefine existing) factoids to something that's relevant in devuan namespace only, please *always* do it like "!#devuan NEWFACTOID is Someting That shows in channel #devuan only", I.E. add a leading "#devuan " to the factoid key. The bot serves 120 channels!, or see !help literal, or see !literal factoid" |
| 01:50.34 | *** join/#devuan zjason (~user@111-250-147-55.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 02:00.13 | *** join/#devuan theLambda (~theLambda@mue-88-130-62-246.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 02:04.04 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 02:14.26 | guru | what desktop manager does devuan use again? i accidently checked desktop environment |
| 02:14.35 | guru | i removed xfce4... it doesn't use lightdm |
| 02:14.42 | gnarface | slim |
| 02:14.56 | guru | thanks |
| 02:29.31 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@p4FD039FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:45.23 | *** join/#devuan scartozzo (~flavio@2-238-140-4.ip244.fastwebnet.it) |
| 02:54.58 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telst4r@fsf/member/telst4r) |
| 03:03.01 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p200300C90BC93D00BDFE6BD539EA4B43.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:14.08 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 03:41.31 | *** join/#devuan ver0 (~ver0@36.84.0.112) |
| 03:41.49 | ver0 | hay |
| 03:42.22 | ver0 | i will migrate form systemd to systemvinit without fressh install :( can you helpme |
| 03:44.46 | gnarface | are you on debian jessie? |
| 03:59.13 | fsmithred | your harsh interrogation must have scared him away |
| 04:00.01 | fsmithred | btw, gnarface, I did a couple debian stretch to ascii upgrades today, and they were easy |
| 04:01.38 | fsmithred | zzzzz |
| 04:04.04 | *** join/#devuan guru (~guru@2601:196:8700:c91:3252:cbff:fec5:6f94) |
| 04:05.00 | guru | is there a way to fake the ascii version name -> stretch |
| 04:05.06 | guru | i can't install nodejs |
| 04:05.27 | guru | curl -sL https://deb.nodesource.com/setup_8.x | sudo -E bash - |
| 04:05.38 | guru | your distro ascii is not supported |
| 04:05.56 | guru | maybe i can manually edit the file and switch out the names |
| 04:10.50 | guru | ah i found os-release |
| 04:16.09 | gnarface | guru: use the one in the repo |
| 04:16.27 | gnarface | that's my recommendation anyway |
| 04:16.35 | gnarface | at the very least don't put unpackaged software on your system |
| 04:16.56 | gnarface | if that script doesn't build a deb, then it's better to build one yourself or upgrade the existing one |
| 04:35.11 | golinux | guru: A devuan version of nodejs may be in the works |
| 04:35.24 | guru | thanks |
| 04:35.26 | golinux | We just talked about it today. |
| 04:35.42 | guru | I can't it's too dated |
| 04:35.43 | guru | https://deb.nodesource.com/node_8.x/pool/main/n/nodejs/ |
| 04:35.48 | guru | this should suffice i found the deb's |
| 04:36.07 | guru | i tried faking the OS version + nulling the bash script without luck |
| 04:36.26 | guru | https://deb.nodesource.com/node_8.x/pool/main/n/nodejs/nodejs-dbg_8.1.2-1nodesource1~stretch1_amd64.deb |
| 04:37.04 | golinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:37.04 | golinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:38.02 | golinux | Hopefully coming to a repo near you soon. :) |
| 04:38.39 | guru | :P |
| 04:51.34 | guru | https://deb.nodesource.com/node_8.x/pool/main/n/nodejs/nodejs_8.4.0-1nodesource1~stretch1_amd64.deb i meant this binary |
| 04:51.53 | guru | not sure why the dev doesn't just post a list of binaries the install script does nothing |
| 04:52.01 | guru | if anyone needs it that's the link |
| 04:53.23 | guru | oh there's 8.9 oh well 8.4 is fine |
| 05:02.53 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 05:10.31 | *** join/#devuan Gup (~Gup@jh3.jhodges.co.uk) |
| 05:17.34 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 05:18.06 | *** join/#devuan SuicideJunkie (~nick@CPE000f6638c2b8-CM0c473de90d90.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:52.06 | *** join/#devuan berndj (~berndj@mail.azna.co.za) |
| 05:54.57 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b864819c00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 06:03.18 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 06:35.15 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 06:42.05 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 07:01.16 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@89-78-6-88.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 07:05.17 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@211.114.220.111.sta.wbroadband.net.au) |
| 07:10.36 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@78.166.39.169) |
| 08:05.57 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 08:06.44 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@host17-168-static.38-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:10.01 | *** join/#devuan nmollerup (~nmo@91.214.20.132) |
| 08:12.58 | *** join/#devuan ryuujin (~ryuujin@server.mirchaemanuel.com) |
| 08:20.55 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 08:31.54 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@ppp121-45-33-160.bras2.adl4.internode.on.net) |
| 08:35.42 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-51-155.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 08:49.45 | *** join/#devuan Zaibitsu (~Zaibitsu@81.0.31.169) |
| 08:53.32 | *** join/#devuan Demosthenex (~Demosthen@dhcp-077-248-042-162.chello.nl) |
| 09:06.48 | *** join/#devuan Ipe (~Ipe@81.197.154.249) |
| 09:12.09 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@host248-53-dynamic.171-212-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:17.37 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@mail.gmc.net.au) |
| 09:18.03 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@host248-53-dynamic.171-212-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:32.07 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@146.255.174.104) |
| 09:32.07 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101) |
| 09:42.25 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-130.home.otenet.gr) |
| 09:43.42 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-225.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 09:51.26 | Evilham | guru: actually you just posted a link to their repo |
| 09:51.46 | Evilham | so if you get rid of the file name, you'll see the list of .debs: https://deb.nodesource.com/node_8.x/pool/main/n/nodejs/ |
| 09:51.59 | Evilham | and there you have 8.9.0 ;) |
| 09:52.20 | Evilham | I am also not sure why they don't give their packages more visibility |
| 09:59.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: what's wrong with the bot? |
| 10:06.29 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@host248-53-dynamic.171-212-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:23.37 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 10:36.22 | fsmithred | sorry DocScrutinizer05, I don't know anything about the bot. |
| 10:50.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought there was a request/complaint |
| 10:51.12 | fsmithred | maybe someone else |
| 10:52.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | k |
| 10:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway just keep !factoid in mind |
| 10:53.49 | dijimumin | what is it good for if I may ask? |
| 10:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | sums up about all the "maintenance" I'm involved into |
| 10:54.32 | dijimumin | hmm |
| 10:54.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | dijimumin: the bot? it's basically an IRC version of wikipedia |
| 11:07.07 | gnarface | DocScrutinizer05: it was AlexLikeRock, he was complaining about some of the data entries |
| 11:07.58 | gnarface | specifically he complained about !sources first |
| 11:08.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | !literal sources |
| 11:08.11 | infobot | "sources" is "<reply> I guess you mean the handhelds sources, see http://handhelds.org/sources.html" |
| 11:08.13 | gnarface | and some other debian specific stuff |
| 11:08.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | how would the bot be debian specific? |
| 11:08.56 | gnarface | !apt |
| 11:08.56 | infobot | from memory, apt is a stuild bot, said by Cotulla |
| 11:08.59 | gnarface | hmm |
| 11:09.01 | gnarface | no that wasn' tit |
| 11:09.03 | gnarface | !apt-get |
| 11:09.03 | infobot | rumour has it, apt-get is the best thing the world ever had it's highly addictive and much different than dselect, it's a womans desire, ribbed for her pleasure, a superb text-adventure for tarzeau, now with Super Cow Powers, the kdeinit of package managers, overrated and overused, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200201/msg01699.html, or apt-get install synaptic for a gui client, or the shiznit, or see apt-cache, or ask me ... |
| 11:09.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | !factinfo apt-get |
| 11:09.26 | infobot | apt-get -- last modified at Tue Jun 17 20:13:23 2003 by bgood!~bgooding@user-0c8hpni.cable.mindspring.com; it has been requested 12 times, last by gnarface, 23s ago. |
| 11:10.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | !factoid |
| 11:10.18 | infobot | somebody said factoid was if you want to define new (or redefine existing) factoids to something that's relevant in devuan namespace only, please *always* do it like "!#devuan NEWFACTOID is Someting That shows in channel #devuan only", I.E. add a leading "#devuan " to the factoid key. The bot serves 120 channels!, or see !help literal, or see !literal factoid |
| 11:11.05 | gnarface | this info probably is what AlexLikeRock wanted but he's not here now |
| 11:11.37 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 11:11.57 | gnarface | i'm assuming this wasn't the first thing he ran into he wanted changed |
| 11:12.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not the factoid changer |
| 11:12.30 | gnarface | is anyone? |
| 11:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway think twice before you change generic factoids |
| 11:13.05 | gnarface | i wasn't gonna change any of them, it wasn't my complaint |
| 11:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously 15 years nobody thought apt-get factoid need changes |
| 11:13.47 | *** join/#devuan margeas (~marco@173.254.222.162) |
| 11:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((is anyone)) everyone is |
| 11:14.04 | gnarface | i mean, frankly the entire data set needs to be rethought, as does the choice to use the generic bot in the first place, IMO, but again, like i said, it was AlexLikeRock asking about it. |
| 11:14.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 11:14.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | !status |
| 11:14.34 | infobot | Since Thu Sep 14 21:10:16 2017, there have been 16 modifications, 326 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 95 commands. I have been awake for 48d 14h 4m 18s this session, and currently reference 119713 factoids. I'm using about 87860 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 7108.97/481.71 child 0/0 |
| 11:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | feel free to review 119713 factoids and come up with your own bot ;-) |
| 11:16.37 | gnarface | well, by "rethought" i mean, most of that would be just thrown in the trash unceremoniously |
| 11:17.00 | gnarface | my hypothetical replacement would be populated with a significantly smaller set of much more carefully chosen factoids |
| 11:17.25 | gnarface | probably even up-to-date enough to be relevant |
| 11:17.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | aha, yiou are choosing which facts get added? |
| 11:17.44 | gnarface | well, hypothetically speaking here, if it was my bot, yea. i wouldn't just release it to the kindergarden class. |
| 11:18.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 11:18.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not interested in proprietary bots and factoids |
| 11:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you should run a website instead? |
| 11:19.03 | gnarface | i don't think the word "proprietary" is entirely appropriate in this context |
| 11:19.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | there it's only you choosing the content |
| 11:19.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh it absolutely is |
| 11:19.33 | gnarface | well, it's definitively not though |
| 11:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | <DocScrutinizer05> aha, yiou are choosing which facts get added? <gnarface> well, hypothetically speaking here, if it was my bot, yea |
| 11:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | my definition of "proprietary" |
| 11:20.15 | gnarface | not even by the actual definition of the word "proprietary" unless, that is you're purposefully mischaracterizing my plan - which, being hypothetical, you're not even completely privy to |
| 11:22.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I don't see the purpose in reducing the number of available factoids |
| 11:22.23 | gnarface | you've made that perfectly clear |
| 11:23.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | would you reduce the number of articles in wikipedia? |
| 11:23.18 | gnarface | would you increase the number of items on the breakfast menu to 119713? |
| 11:23.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's that related |
| 11:23.50 | gnarface | i'll give you some time to figure it out |
| 11:24.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks, not interested. It's you to prove your point |
| 11:25.07 | gnarface | my point was that AlexLikeRock was disappointed with the poor quality of the info bot's info and wanted to know who was "in charge" of it |
| 11:25.15 | gnarface | i'll make sure to let him know you said nobody is |
| 11:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOBODY resp EVERYBODY is in charge of it |
| 11:25.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's IRC wikipedia |
| 11:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's so difficult to understand about that concept? |
| 11:26.18 | gnarface | nothing at all |
| 11:26.25 | gnarface | that's not the part in question here |
| 11:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, the part in question is how reducing the number of factoids and allowing only one person to add new ones would improve quality of the available factoids |
| 11:27.57 | gnarface | well presumably this one person would be really, REALLY smart |
| 11:28.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | aha |
| 11:29.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what stops a really REALLY smart person to add same factoids right away to infobot? |
| 11:29.48 | gnarface | apathy |
| 11:29.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | tzz |
| 11:29.57 | gnarface | remember this was a hypothetical |
| 11:30.10 | gnarface | i never said i was actually going to replace your bot |
| 11:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I won't remenber any of this convo in 30 minutes. Not worth it |
| 11:30.26 | gnarface | i just said that if i was, i'd be doing it fundamentally differently |
| 11:31.19 | gnarface | you answered the real question just by pointing out which factoid had the information on how to update factoids |
| 11:31.27 | gnarface | that's what AlexLikeRock could really have used |
| 11:31.37 | gnarface | too bad he's not here right now |
| 11:32.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and please note this is *not* my bot |
| 11:32.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it's been around for longer than I know what IRC is |
| 11:33.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | it not my bot like wikipedia isn't mine either |
| 11:34.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | /topic |
| 11:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | !listkeys #devuan |
| 11:35.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. |
| 11:35.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | !codenames |
| 11:35.19 | infobot | methinks codenames is squeeze is 6.x (EOL); wheezy is 7.x; jessie is 8.x; stretch = ascii = 9.x |
| 11:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | !dng |
| 11:35.40 | infobot | dng is probably https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng the devuan mailing list |
| 11:36.20 | dijimumin | !d1h |
| 11:36.20 | infobot | [d1h] https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=549 Documentation > Using d1h (a.k.a. "Devuan packaging made easier") |
| 11:36.57 | dijimumin | !infra |
| 11:36.57 | infobot | infra is probably <Centurion-Dan> documentation of the infrastructure is in https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/infrastructure_doc and it's mostly complete apart from no detail on dak and how we use that.... I'll get that done soon... |
| 11:38.07 | *** join/#devuan eliasr (uid27497@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmkvmmjnhngcwhbv) |
| 11:38.17 | dijimumin | !listvalues #devuan |
| 11:40.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | both listkeys and listvalues take globs |
| 11:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas listvalues doesn't allow to restrict to #devuan keys only |
| 11:42.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | !listvalues devuan |
| 11:42.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | !listvalues devuan*systemd |
| 11:47.10 | dijimumin | hmm |
| 11:47.12 | dijimumin | !systemd |
| 11:47.12 | infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd" |
| 11:47.21 | *** join/#devuan saptech (~saptech@unaffiliated/saptech) |
| 11:47.52 | dijimumin | ~nosystemd |
| 11:48.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | !~ |
| 11:48.43 | infobot | in #devuan the exclamation mark ("!"), when put as first char in a line, is the infobot attention char (a shorthand for "infobot: ..." highlight). This is on special reqzest, in most other channels the bot uses tilde ("~") as attention char, and you'll find factoids referring to that like "also see ~<factoid>" |
| 11:49.24 | dijimumin | !nosystemd |
| 11:49.25 | infobot | nosystemd is probably https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ |
| 11:53.36 | *** join/#devuan muerte (~muerte@186.0.209.29) |
| 11:55.24 | *** join/#devuan MY_R (~NO@unaffiliated/my-r/x-3859955) |
| 11:56.06 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@devuan/developer/centuriondan) |
| 11:56.10 | *** join/#devuan Evilham (~Evilham@devuan/developer/Evilham) |
| 11:56.11 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@devuan/developer/fsmithred) |
| 11:56.14 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@devuan/developer/golinux) |
| 11:56.16 | *** join/#devuan jaromil (~jaromil@devuan/developer/jaromil) |
| 11:56.17 | *** join/#devuan KatolaZ (~KatolaZ@devuan/developer/KatolaZ) |
| 11:56.39 | *** join/#devuan DPA (~Daniel@devuan/contributor/DPA) |
| 11:56.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | !tell dijimumin query |
| 11:56.47 | *** join/#devuan parazyd (~parazyd@devuan/developer/parazyd) |
| 11:57.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the...? |
| 11:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, freenode staff handed out cloaks :-) |
| 11:59.06 | *** join/#devuan fugitive (~fugitive@95.211.147.186) |
| 12:02.00 | dijimumin | to everyone? |
| 12:07.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, to devuan developers |
| 12:12.45 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~androirc@2a02:582:d25:6800:1bc:6a6:aee6:52ac) |
| 12:13.27 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-84-220-218-84.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 12:13.35 | dijimumin | indeed |
| 12:14.28 | dijimumin | !tell DocScrutinizer05 query |
| 12:14.40 | dijimumin | what is this supposed to do |
| 12:14.40 | TotalOblivion | Hey ho! Installing headless system on HDD. Please someone confirm if this is right (package name wise at least): apt-get install nvidia-driver xorg lightdm light-gtk-greater lxde |
| 12:15.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | dijimumin: should provide a factoid in PM |
| 12:15.31 | dijimumin | hmm |
| 12:15.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems it doesn't work |
| 12:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | TotalOblivion: why would you install gfx stuff on headless? |
| 12:18.34 | TotalOblivion | I actually wanted to install gfx by myself by direvctly using nvidia drivers to avoid having nouveau issues. Not planning on using it headless |
| 12:26.57 | TotalOblivion | Right. So after installation it's stuck at waiting for /dev to be populated |
| 12:27.45 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 12:28.09 | TotalOblivion | I think targeted kernel installation was a bad move |
| 12:29.25 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 12:41.38 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-82.home.otenet.gr) |
| 12:48.09 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~androirc@athedsl-79659.home.otenet.gr) |
| 12:50.43 | *** join/#devuan blinkdog (~blinkdog@wipac-user-nat.icecube.wisc.edu) |
| 12:51.30 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.101.30) |
| 13:01.29 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~androirc@2a02:582:d25:6800:1bc:6a6:aee6:52ac) |
| 13:04.14 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~androirc@2a02:582:d25:6800:1bc:6a6:aee6:52ac) |
| 13:07.38 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 13:10.55 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@mou76-1-82-236-58-180.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:32.20 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 13:39.08 | *** join/#devuan godbed (~Wowbagger@HSI-KBW-046-005-194-230.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 13:48.44 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 13:53.42 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 13:53.50 | *** join/#devuan blinkdog (~blinkdog@wipac-user-nat.icecube.wisc.edu) |
| 13:55.55 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn (UNKNOWN@p549A6614.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:04.06 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@ip-37-201-5-138.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 14:10.16 | *** join/#devuan fugitive (~fugitive@178.220.198.191) |
| 14:13.08 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.177) |
| 14:15.23 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 14:20.33 | *** join/#devuan romo (~romo@unaffiliated/romo) |
| 14:26.35 | *** join/#devuan amdgoon (~amdgoon@002129a181f5.cpe.westmancom.com) |
| 14:31.56 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 14:32.40 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~User@2a02:582:d25:6800:4cf9:24c5:9f9a:247c) |
| 14:38.36 | TotalOblivion | Sorry for the on and offs. I was on mobile. I just wanted to say that I had used a usb stick which I had dd with CD install I think but after I installed devuan it suddenly stopped being recognised as bootable by BIOS. I have no clue what was wrong. Also. After installation system would get stuck on /dev populating while booting. I had installed UEFI/GPT. When I tried with the usb to recover/rescue the system when it was |
| 14:38.36 | TotalOblivion | booting it got stuck while some command about nouveau fb change to GPT showed up. |
| 14:39.14 | TotalOblivion | Just thought I should mention it |
| 14:45.01 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.233.231.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 14:45.16 | TotalOblivion | Maybe make a forum post? |
| 14:46.22 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b864819c00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 15:02.35 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn_ (UNKNOWN@p5797D8F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:06.50 | *** join/#devuan fugitive_ (~fugitive@178.220.198.191) |
| 15:16.03 | *** join/#devuan Kruppt (~Kirk_Krup@50.111.61.105) |
| 15:17.27 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 15:17.37 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 15:18.33 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.1.128) |
| 15:20.41 | *** join/#devuan fugitive_ (~fugitive@91-150-125-207.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 15:29.14 | *** join/#devuan fugitive_ (~fugitive@79-101-151-50.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 15:32.34 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-34.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:45.03 | *** join/#devuan eduardolgg (~cirucito@146.113.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:46.18 | *** join/#devuan Ipe (~Ipe@81.197.154.249) |
| 16:02.02 | *** join/#devuan rah (rah@verain.settrans.net) |
| 16:19.24 | *** join/#devuan W_T (~wojciech@dynamic-78-8-153-247.ssp.dialog.net.pl) |
| 16:20.29 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 16:23.09 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.35.59.108) |
| 16:36.24 | *** join/#devuan eracc_lappy (~Captalist@unaffiliated/eracc) |
| 16:36.39 | *** join/#devuan W_T (~wojciech@dynamic-78-8-153-247.ssp.dialog.net.pl) |
| 16:45.48 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 16:48.51 | *** join/#devuan LeoTh3o (~LeoTh3o@2.236.252.139) |
| 17:01.36 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:12.19 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 17:14.51 | *** join/#devuan OxFEEDBACC (~what@x2f7f5d8.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 17:14.51 | *** join/#devuan OxFEEDBACC (~what@unaffiliated/oxfeedbacc) |
| 17:15.00 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.101.31) |
| 17:35.26 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.58.46.148) |
| 17:36.47 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 17:43.05 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-43-207.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 17:48.37 | *** join/#devuan rsx (~rsx@ppp-46-244-245-174.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:52.55 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~Henry_D@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 17:53.39 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 17:54.00 | TotalOblivion | Hey all! I'm having an issue. I did an installation with DVD_installer and now apt-get install something requires me to insert the DVD for it to install it? How can I change that? |
| 17:54.39 | LeoTh3o | edit /etc/apt/sources.list to use online repositories rather than disk-based stuff |
| 17:57.48 | TotalOblivion | thanks LeoTh3o :D |
| 17:57.53 | golinux | TotalOblivion: Comment out the cdrom lines in sources.list with # |
| 17:58.37 | TotalOblivion | Just did golinux, thanks for the reply! I'm so happy to be now officially on devuan and completely windows free \o/ lxde seems bothersome though I think... |
| 18:00.01 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.1.128) |
| 18:00.26 | *** join/#devuan malinas_ (~user@137.132.22.252) |
| 18:03.58 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 18:04.18 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.101.31) |
| 18:05.24 | golinux | All DE's have their quirks. Pick your poison . . . |
| 18:05.48 | golinux | Welcome to the campfire |
| 18:06.02 | TotalOblivion | haha thanks. |
| 18:06.08 | TotalOblivion | I was used to xfce just working so far |
| 18:06.25 | TotalOblivion | But atm graphics seem way off and my 2nd monitor is completely dead |
| 18:06.33 | TotalOblivion | I think something's wrong with the gpu driver. |
| 18:17.25 | *** join/#devuan marulo (~Marulo@host155.200-117-226.telecom.net.ar) |
| 18:19.16 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-bceefc-239.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:21.28 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@mou76-1-82-236-58-180.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:24.46 | *** join/#devuan MY_R (~NO@unaffiliated/my-r/x-3859955) |
| 18:27.44 | *** join/#devuan Nematocyst (~eric@174-28-244-148.albq.qwest.net) |
| 18:32.51 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 18:34.06 | TotalOblivion | how can i change kernel config settings? |
| 18:35.26 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-225.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:37.04 | TotalOblivion | Also I can transfer to xfce4 by using sudo apt-get install xfce4? |
| 18:39.05 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 18:39.15 | freem | hello. |
| 18:40.59 | freem | I had a problem with devuan jessie, hardware acceleration of my intel video chipset was not used (from what I have found, it was related to Gallium being used which was not «finished» in Jessie) so I moved to ascii, but now I have several other problems. |
| 18:42.46 | freem | The more annoying one is that I am no longer able to start a session with startx or xinit without being root. I worked around it by installing xdm, but this have several issues like not obeing my user's xinit, and, more important, it seems that I can no longer start gparted with "su" |
| 18:42.52 | *** part/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@mou76-1-82-236-58-180.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:44.17 | freem | This exact problem was the reason for which I stayed on Debian Jessie instead of Debian stretch, and is caused by the fact systemd-related dependencies are now required under Debian to do that. |
| 18:45.09 | freem | So, does anyone of you uses X11 without the process being started as root, which is something I really would like to stop. |
| 18:46.01 | *** join/#devuan ChubYann (~ChubYann@LFbn-BOR-1-14-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:46.11 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-43-207.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 18:50.21 | *** join/#devuan sunshavi (~user@190.234.106.68) |
| 18:57.30 | Walex | freem: you have several different issues due in part to other ways in which Debian have strayed from teh UNIX veteran traditions, ways that have not yet been fixed 9in Devuan./ |
| 18:58.23 | Walex | freem: also you seem to misunderstand X based loggin in, whioch is quite diofferent from tty logging in. |
| 18:59.54 | Walex | freem: some links to follow |
| 18:59.59 | freem | k |
| 19:00.16 | Walex | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-Non-Root-X |
| 19:00.30 | Walex | https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1viqpt/x_server_running_without_root_privileges_now/ |
| 19:03.31 | Walex | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/xorg#Rootless_Xorg |
| 19:03.34 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-40-238.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 19:03.46 | Walex | so the news are not uniformly positive :-) |
| 19:05.25 | freem | I guess there are some stuff I could try on those links |
| 19:06.23 | Walex | freem: first one maybe |
| 19:07.48 | freem | yep. I noticed the legacy package, but can't have any description in aptitude, and the dependencies are quite strange, so I was not really convinced |
| 19:10.57 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.177) |
| 19:11.12 | Walex | freem: it is all around 'freedesktop.org' stuff, and 'freedesktop.org' is at the center of 'systemd' conspiracy to abolish goodness and principles :-) |
| 19:12.15 | freem | I don't think there are real conspiracies, just people sensible to hype and new things. |
| 19:12.41 | freem | or at least, not around systemd :) |
| 19:13.53 | Walex | freem: evil too works in mysterious ways :-) |
| 19:13.57 | freem | and TBH, I don't care if there is a conspiracy around systemd, since we are still free to use other init systems if we really want it. Few years ago, I was close to have ported one of my debians to a full runit init. |
| 19:17.35 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@239.red-80-59-216.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:19.51 | freem | good, there's a package. With no doc, no hints about how to restore the old behavior. It reminds me so much the breaks that happened when moving to jessie, in a far worst way... |
| 19:21.39 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~Henry_D@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 19:22.08 | freem | Walex: ok, thanks to the 1st and 3rd links, I've found the way. |
| 19:23.44 | freem | well, I'll tinker it a bit more, because I have doubts on some stuff, but basically, the need_roots_rights=auto does not work. |
| 19:24.38 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 19:26.31 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock_ (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 19:38.24 | freem | ok, 1 issue fixed, I'll go take a look about how to explain to xbacklight that yes, my hard support backlight changes |
| 19:39.15 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@devuan/developer/fsmithred) |
| 19:41.04 | fsmithred | freem, install xserver-xorg-legacy and then echo "needs_root_rights=yes" >> /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config |
| 19:41.50 | freem | yep, that's what I did |
| 19:42.37 | freem | I'll make a forum entry about that, it may be of use for someone else. |
| 19:45.33 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@ppp121-45-33-160.bras2.adl4.internode.on.net) |
| 19:45.46 | TotalOblivion | For any question for apt, so that I won't be asking here all the time, I google for debian as well? |
| 19:46.08 | fsmithred | yes, google for debian will yield many correct answers for devuan |
| 19:47.30 | freem | AFAIK, but I'm new on devuan, there is only 2 differences: the sources.list, which contains different URIs, of course, and the fact that for now Devuan does not supports package descriptions. Out of those points I think asking for debian will give you more results. You could also ask for ubuntu or mint. |
| 19:47.57 | fsmithred | freem, it's been posted a couple of times |
| 19:48.03 | fsmithred | at d1g |
| 19:48.30 | fsmithred | what's wrong with package descriptions? |
| 19:49.35 | freem | In aptitude, I don't have any. |
| 19:49.56 | freem | fsmithred, I was not able to find those entries? |
| 19:50.06 | fsmithred | something is wrong, then. I've been getting them all along (2 years) |
| 19:50.38 | fsmithred | search forum for needs_root_rights |
| 19:50.44 | fsmithred | and you'll get four hits |
| 19:51.05 | freem | oh. But people searching for solutions only know the question :) |
| 19:51.26 | freem | aobut descriptions, maybe. I've installed from debootstrap, so there might have things I have not worked out correctly. |
| 19:51.33 | freem | about* |
| 19:52.12 | fsmithred | apt-get install aptitude should have taken care of it, I think. |
| 19:52.20 | freem | it didn't. |
| 19:52.22 | fsmithred | even if you install without recommends |
| 19:52.42 | fsmithred | aptitude show <package> |
| 19:53.07 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-225.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:54.01 | freem | I think it might be related to sources. Which one are you using? |
| 19:54.51 | fsmithred | um, right now I have the sources.list from hell, but for a long time I was using auto.mirror or us.mirror. |
| 19:55.26 | fsmithred | for ascii I'm using pkgmaster now |
| 19:55.40 | freem | auto.mirror.devuan.org? |
| 19:55.50 | fsmithred | yes |
| 19:56.13 | fsmithred | but for ascii you're better off with pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 19:56.33 | fsmithred | that one pulls the security fixes correctly |
| 19:56.44 | freem | that's what I'm using: "deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main" for example. |
| 19:56.57 | fsmithred | yes |
| 20:01.26 | freem | ok, it seems that I miss the translations files |
| 20:01.29 | TotalOblivion | fsmithred, manual kernel config for devuan works the same way as debian as well? |
| 20:02.13 | *** join/#devuan giricz81 (~giricz81@ip4-83-240-38-90.cust.nbox.cz) |
| 20:02.38 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 20:02.41 | freem | for example, in debian, the file /var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.fr.debian.org_debian_dists_jessie_main_i18n_Translation-fr exists, and contain descriptions, but on devuan, there are no i18n files in /var/lib/apt/lists |
| 20:02.54 | freem | I now only have to figure why. |
| 20:12.43 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 20:14.11 | freem | the hack with xserver-xorg-legacy does not seems to be very stable... |
| 20:17.44 | fsmithred | what's it doing? |
| 20:18.09 | *** join/#devuan guru (~guru@2601:196:8700:c91:3252:cbff:fec5:6f94) |
| 20:18.34 | guru | I just casually sat down at my laptop, booted it up, started using the touchpad, and realized it was working again like 5 minutes later... |
| 20:18.41 | guru | wtf |
| 20:19.29 | gnarface | very interesting |
| 20:19.31 | gnarface | but what changed? |
| 20:19.37 | guru | nothing which scares me |
| 20:19.43 | guru | hopefully its not hardware failure |
| 20:19.54 | gnarface | just the kernel version maybe? did you choose an older one from the grub menu like i suggested? |
| 20:20.07 | guru | i actually tried changing the kernel version and the touchpad didn't work |
| 20:20.10 | guru | -still |
| 20:20.13 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 20:20.19 | gnarface | definitely weird |
| 20:20.21 | guru | let me plug a usb mouse in and see if it disables the touchpad |
| 20:20.29 | gnarface | oh, interesting idea |
| 20:20.32 | gnarface | yea that's possible too |
| 20:20.33 | gnarface | still weird |
| 20:20.37 | gnarface | what is this device anyway? |
| 20:20.39 | guru | nope it still works |
| 20:21.12 | *** join/#devuan rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) |
| 20:21.16 | guru | just a logitech usb optical mouse |
| 20:21.24 | gnarface | i've had USB mice fail on me before, but usually i'd expect to be seeing sporadic disconnect/reconnect errors or usb bus resets for years leading up to the failure |
| 20:21.37 | gnarface | i didn't mean the mouse though, i meant what laptop is it? |
| 20:21.37 | guru | well the touchpad failed first then i plugged in a usb mouse after |
| 20:21.52 | guru | i was thinking maybe after an update the touchpad was still disabled |
| 20:21.54 | guru | but that's not the case |
| 20:22.13 | guru | -still disabled because the usb mouse was plugged in |
| 20:22.42 | Walex | guru: it could be a featgure not a bug |
| 20:23.00 | guru | well the touchpad failed when i was using an ubuntu live cd too |
| 20:23.32 | guru | maybe it's related to a newer kernel being used |
| 20:23.41 | guru | i should of tried an old live cd |
| 20:23.57 | Walex | guru: some desktop environments have a "disable touchpad" keysequence or gesture tyhat you may be hittin inadvertently |
| 20:24.10 | guru | i'm using mate desktop |
| 20:24.29 | guru | the ubuntu live cd was gnome3 desktop it failed on boot |
| 20:24.35 | guru | -the touchpad failed on boot |
| 20:25.00 | guru | I wonder if I disabled it some how via a FN key |
| 20:26.43 | freem | fsmithred: I had a freeze |
| 20:28.57 | gnarface | guru: next time it cuts out, run dmesg immediately and look for any relevant errors/warnings in the last few lines. anything related to touchpads, pointers, or usb devices |
| 20:29.31 | gnarface | guru: it might not mention the touchpad specifically, but it might mention something like a bus reset on the internal usb hub it's connected to |
| 20:29.36 | fsmithred | freem, anything in ~/.xsession-errors? |
| 20:29.44 | gnarface | guru: (at least, if it was hardware failure) |
| 20:30.02 | gnarface | drat, missed |
| 20:31.22 | *** join/#devuan guru (~guru@2601:196:8700:c91:3252:cbff:fec5:6f94) |
| 20:31.43 | guru | meh the only difference i see on boot is [Firmware Bug]: TSC_DEADLINE disabled due to Errata; please update microcode to version: 0x700000e (or later) |
| 20:31.46 | guru | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:32.25 | freem | fsmithred: nope. It happened when I switched to a TTY and tried to switch back to the X11 session. |
| 20:33.04 | freem | and I don't have another computer around to try to ssh into this one when it have a problem, sadly |
| 20:36.35 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.180) |
| 20:36.57 | fsmithred | I don't have any good suggestions for that |
| 20:38.16 | gnarface | freem: sometimes it's not x frozen, it's one of the programs running in it, and if you go back to the TTY and kill it, you can come back into X |
| 20:38.41 | gnarface | freem: (if you were playing a opengl game, that'd be my prime suspect) |
| 20:39.06 | gnarface | freem: (video playback or web browser second) |
| 20:40.14 | freem | there were no game running, but I had a web browser. Fact is, I could not even go back to TTYs. |
| 20:40.30 | gnarface | bummer |
| 20:40.33 | freem | so I doubt the browser is the problem. |
| 20:40.44 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~Henry_D@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 20:40.54 | gnarface | well it wouldn't be the browser so much as some script or plugin running on a page that was open in it |
| 20:41.27 | gnarface | (anything with embedded video or heavy javascript can go off the rails real easy) |
| 20:41.35 | freem | I use that browser on that page a lot, and it's the 1st time I had the problem |
| 20:41.44 | gnarface | yea, but is it youtube? |
| 20:42.12 | freem | no video, and only a chat for JS |
| 20:42.31 | freem | I tend to prefer dedicated softwares for video and music :) |
| 20:44.02 | TotalOblivion | is apt-get remove --purge lxde dangerous somehow if I have xfce already installed? |
| 20:44.57 | freem | I'd say no, except if you are doing that while running lxde, of course. |
| 20:45.36 | freem | but to be sure, I would say you can use aptitude, without any argument: this will lead you to a ncurses interface, with a preview of the actions it would take. |
| 20:49.00 | freem | anyway, I'll need to reproduce in a situation where I can get some meaningful informations, otherwise it won't be doable to find the real cause. |
| 21:03.31 | *** join/#devuan tsuggs (~tsuggs@adsl-074-171-024-060.sip.int.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:19.03 | *** join/#devuan xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 21:26.33 | TotalOblivion | one other thing as well. Is it possible to make a GPT parition scheme with graphical installer unber legacy/bios? |
| 21:28.56 | gnarface | yes, assuming i understand the question... |
| 21:29.19 | gnarface | i mean, it always was possible before efi/uefi. it wouldn't have changed just because they exist now |
| 21:29.51 | gnarface | the bios shouldn't care about the partition table type, that's an OS thing |
| 21:31.15 | gnarface | you *might* have a problem with certain very old BIOSes choking on large disks or 1st partitions greater in size than 2GB, though |
| 21:32.06 | gnarface | (and the limitations thereof may not even be uniform across all block device types for a given BIOS, as i relatively recently discovered on an old dell inspiron 530) |
| 21:40.32 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@224.99.204.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 21:40.32 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101) |
| 22:04.03 | TotalOblivion | great. But on guided partitioning iirc, when it's bios, by default it creates and MBR table. Is there a way to avoid that? Talking about devuan DVD installer |
| 22:05.10 | gnarface | oh, i'm sorry i didn't read the question right |
| 22:05.11 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-225.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:05.45 | gnarface | go through in expert mode and use manual partitioning, see if there's an option. it's possible you might have to create the GPT table ahead of time though. |
| 22:06.14 | gnarface | (you can do that easily with parted or gparted - use the livecd if necessary) |
| 22:06.24 | gnarface | TotalOblivion: ^ |
| 22:06.52 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 22:06.57 | TotalOblivion | thanks for the feedback :) |
| 22:07.14 | TotalOblivion | and great wasn't sarcastic. It was actually great that you clarified :) |
| 22:07.30 | gnarface | it's possible you might even be able to do that from a virtual terminal on the dvd installer, but i don't know if sfdisk or parted is even on there, so it'd be definitely easier to use the livecd |
| 22:08.25 | TotalOblivion | i can install it via a module in expert mode iirc |
| 22:08.29 | TotalOblivion | parted that is |
| 22:08.36 | gnarface | the livecd of course has a very limited dumb installer though, so what you probably want to do is to create the partition table using gparted, then just bail out and start the dvd installer again (being careful to use manual partitioning mode to re-use the existing partitions to be sure they're not overwritten) |
| 22:08.46 | *** join/#devuan mns` (~mns@177.13.50.194) |
| 22:09.31 | gnarface | oh ok, yea if you're comfortable with the non-gui parted, you could do it from the alt+f4 terminal between steps during the installer. it's just harder that way. i don't think the shell on there is even BASH, it's quite limited. |
| 22:10.38 | *** join/#devuan sedrosken_ (~sedrosken@static-204-62-58-150.ptr.shelbybb.com) |
| 22:10.40 | gnarface | i guess it depends on whether your bandwith is faster than your terminal skills |
| 22:11.45 | gnarface | i thought there was some way to get it to use GPT by default but maybe that's just if it detects EFI |
| 22:12.25 | gnarface | i thought it was something dumber than that though like... the size of the disk or something |
| 22:12.37 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-40-238.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 22:19.48 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@78.166.39.169) |
| 22:21.19 | *** join/#devuan targz (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/targz) |
| 22:31.21 | TotalOblivion | gnarface, I'm ok with parted gdisk/fdisk etc. It just requires some more focus I think and more lsblk typing + mkfs.ext4 etc. But gui installer is certainly faster if you're not 100% comfortable with non-gui :P |
| 22:32.05 | gnarface | that's cool. i just wanted to make sure you knew there were options |
| 22:32.23 | gnarface | i know you can get a GPT table on these things because i keep doing it accidentally... |
| 22:33.09 | gnarface | (word of warning, if you decide to go BACK, neither gparted nor fdisk will completely clear this one little flag from the GPT partition table data that is ignored by everything but the windows7 installer, which will just choke) |
| 22:33.41 | gnu_srs1 | I'll go for systemd from now Devuan is shrewed |
| 22:54.24 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 23:17.39 | gnu_srs1 | shrewed/screwed |
| 23:18.03 | TotalOblivion | gnu_srs1, why is i screwed? |
| 23:20.42 | gnu_srs1 | I did not say you were screwed, where did I say that? |
| 23:21.05 | TotalOblivion | it* |
| 23:23.12 | TotalOblivion | I typed badly... I really need to improve my keyboard accuracy damn it |
| 23:37.22 | TotalOblivion | Erm, I'm having an issue. I just apt install nvidia-driver and I sudo nvidia-xconfig but command is not found. Any clue what's happening? |
| 23:38.22 | gnarface | they just deprecated that one, that's all |
| 23:38.37 | gnarface | you shouldn't need an xorg.conf anymore for basic setups anyway |
| 23:38.46 | gnarface | auto-detect works a solid 80% of the time |
| 23:39.27 | gnarface | if you need to generate an xorg.conf try `Xorg -configure`, or try generating one with nvidia-settings |
| 23:39.58 | TotalOblivion | when i try to open nvidia-settings i get: You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run `nvidia-xconfig` as root), and restart the X server. |
| 23:40.07 | gnarface | oh |
| 23:40.13 | gnarface | two things |
| 23:40.21 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telst4r@fsf/member/telst4r) |
| 23:40.30 | gnarface | 1) don't use the nvidia.com shell script installer. they hate linux, and it will hose your install. |
| 23:41.08 | gnarface | 2) you have to blacklist nouveau or it takes over the card before nvidia drivers can. (the native repo nvidia packages do this for you automatically) |
| 23:41.40 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.26 | TotalOblivion | i haven't rebooted :P |
| 23:42.27 | TotalOblivion | yet |
| 23:42.46 | TotalOblivion | should i reboot or just restart slim? |
| 23:42.55 | TotalOblivion | sudo restart slim i think? |
| 23:43.44 | gnarface | if you stop slim and are able to manually unload the nouveau module, that might work. nvidia's official documentation says a full cold boot is required, but i haven't confirmed it's really necessary since some AGP card years ago. |
| 23:44.34 | gnarface | either way, for something like this you probably want to test-reboot once at least, to verify the right one gets loaded by default on a fresh boot |
| 23:45.08 | TotalOblivion | fingers crossed i will get that reboot going and not have issues. |
| 23:45.21 | TotalOblivion | if i'm not back soon, uefi+nvidia = death XD |
| 23:45.28 | gnarface | (i haven't been able to actually unload nouveau on my setup after it's started. there's always one thing still using it, not sure what, maybe kms) |
| 23:45.48 | gnarface | good luck |
| 23:47.13 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 23:48.58 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~Henry_D@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 23:49.21 | TotalOblivion | the hell... |
| 23:49.35 | TotalOblivion | now it's even worse XD |
| 23:49.53 | TotalOblivion | it's like i don't have any gcard XD |
| 23:50.12 | TotalOblivion | and nvidia-xconfig still doesn't work |
| 23:50.55 | TotalOblivion | it's a seperate package as it seems |
| 23:51.10 | TotalOblivion | rebooting again |
| 23:51.47 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 23:53.24 | *** join/#devuan TotalOblivion (~Henry_D@unaffiliated/totaloblivion) |
| 23:53.46 | TotalOblivion | IT WORKED!!! :D |
| 23:53.57 | gnarface | hooraaay! |
| 23:54.05 | TotalOblivion | fudge yeah! :D |
| 23:55.19 | TotalOblivion | gnarface, is there any tutorial around for me to read a bit on sysvinit? |
| 23:55.56 | gnarface | TotalOblivion: the debian wiki for wheezy is still accurate for all devuan releases |
| 23:56.11 | TotalOblivion | excellent |
| 23:56.14 | gnarface | (on that one topic, at least) |
| 23:56.17 | TotalOblivion | yy |
| 23:56.31 | TotalOblivion | i really really hope devuan will become a thing |
| 23:56.42 | TotalOblivion | it's the only stable distro without systemd |
| 23:57.00 | MinceR | hm, i thought slackware was stable too :> |
| 23:57.11 | TotalOblivion | MinceR, isn't slackware rolling? |
| 23:57.15 | TotalOblivion | I really have no clue |
| 23:57.17 | MinceR | it isn't |
| 23:57.22 | TotalOblivion | since i never got into reading about it |
| 23:57.24 | TotalOblivion | hmmm |
| 23:57.27 | TotalOblivion | niiice :D |
| 23:57.33 | MinceR | well, -current is rolling, but so's ceres |