| 00:04.48 | *** join/#devuan rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) |
| 00:09.39 | matlock | Xenguy I mostly use backports now, but every once in a while I will see news of a new feature in a kernel rc I will want to try, I try to turn off or modularize a lot of useless hardware bits in the kernel |
| 00:11.42 | Hurgotron | Xenguy: I mainly still compile kernels because I run linux-vserver. |
| 00:13.24 | Xenguy | I expect it's even more of a labrynth than it used to be too |
| 00:15.35 | Hurgotron | definetely. But I'm lazy and just use the config of some distro kernel, apply the patch and go from there. |
| 00:22.15 | Xenguy | That sounds efficient |
| 00:47.04 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 00:48.07 | fsmithred | Hurgotron, which debian is closest to ubuntu 12 in package versions? |
| 00:49.17 | *** join/#devuan theLambda (~theLambda@mue-88-130-62-103.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 00:52.01 | gnarface | fsmithred: google tells me 12.04 was kernel "3.2+" and 12.10 was kernel 3.5, so if he's on 12.10 that's pretty close to jessie. i'm thinking it is more likely to be the raid array configuration that sabotages his upgrade than any package version issues |
| 00:53.40 | gnarface | fsmithred: i'm also pretty sure that if he's running linux-vservers he can figure this out himself. the real question, since it's a remote server, is whether it is known to be supposed to work "hands-off" on the first try or not. the problem of course being that none of us actually know, because none of us have tested it from an encrypted raid array. |
| 00:54.10 | gnarface | fsmithred: i wouldn't put his odds of failure at 80% though on the first try. i'd say even odds, 50/50 it boots or doesn't. |
| 00:54.25 | gnarface | is a gambling man |
| 00:55.50 | fsmithred | I have a wheezy with lvm and raid, and I'm scared to do anything to change it |
| 00:56.05 | fsmithred | I don't own it, I just make sure it works |
| 00:58.14 | fsmithred | not sure what odds I'd give. I just finished an upgrade from debian jessie with gnome to devuan ascii with xfce. It was not fun. |
| 00:59.43 | gnarface | so far, every debian upgrade i've done parallel, straight across, THEN upgraded to ascii |
| 00:59.54 | gnarface | jessie->jessie |
| 01:00.10 | gnarface | that's so far worked for me, but i haven't tried it from ubuntu at all |
| 01:00.13 | gnarface | no ubuntu here |
| 01:00.31 | gnarface | most those were headless systems though, and none of them using Gnome |
| 01:01.08 | gnarface | i would kindof expect the upgrade from wheezy to be even easier though, honestly |
| 01:01.21 | gnarface | unless Gnome was on it |
| 01:01.52 | gnarface | probably should be mentioned for the record that i'm bad at gambling too |
| 01:02.17 | fsmithred | yeah, wheezy to devuan jessie is easier than jessie to jessie |
| 01:02.23 | fsmithred | lol |
| 01:03.02 | fsmithred | I'm probably going to try it again and do it differently |
| 01:03.20 | fsmithred | it's in vbox, and I made a snapshot when the initial install of debian was compete |
| 01:03.49 | gnarface | you should try out linux-vservers honestly |
| 01:03.55 | gnarface | you're too smart for that vbox crap |
| 01:03.56 | fsmithred | what is it? |
| 01:03.57 | gnarface | that's for noobs |
| 01:04.15 | fsmithred | yeah, it's easy and convenient |
| 01:05.22 | gnarface | basically it's a linux-only paravirutalization patch for the kernel. it's primary benefit is that it's so freaking efficient in the way it works that without IOMMU you can still get 1000 guest instances on the type of machine you could only get 16 kvm or vbox instances on, because you don't need a whole new kernel and emulated hardware instance for each one |
| 01:05.36 | gnarface | it also predates the other popular options by decades |
| 01:06.02 | gnarface | it just never gained any serious commercial popularity because the maintainers are more interested in using it to get their own work done than shilling for an IPO |
| 01:06.17 | fsmithred | oh, that sounds interesting |
| 01:06.52 | gnarface | the closest thing you could compare it to would be BSD "jails" |
| 01:07.03 | gnarface | but even that would be somewhat of an ill-fit of comparison |
| 01:07.18 | gnarface | the primary weakness of course, compared to things like vmware, or xen, is that it doesn't run windows |
| 01:07.40 | gnarface | in fact, though it can run every linux distro, you still need every guest to be happy with the host's kernel version |
| 01:07.42 | gnarface | because they're all sharing it |
| 01:08.10 | gnarface | but it's nice for web development because it scales down real well |
| 01:08.18 | gnarface | you can simulate an entire cluster on an old PII machine |
| 01:08.24 | fsmithred | would work well for what I do |
| 01:08.56 | fsmithred | I've got at least half a dozen test installs on one machine - some virtual, some on partitions |
| 01:09.05 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telst4r@fsf/member/telst4r) |
| 01:09.27 | gnarface | and you can't run them all at once because there's not enough physical ram? yea, vservers would totally obviate that problem |
| 01:10.09 | fsmithred | well, on my main box, I can run two, maybe three if I play some tricks - 2gb ram, but the test box has 8 |
| 01:10.11 | gnarface | also it's supposed to play nice along side kvm but i can't say i've tested that theory extensively |
| 01:11.55 | gnarface | there used to be debian native packages for it, but they got abandoned then pulled |
| 01:12.20 | gnarface | these guys generally fear and distrust systemd though just as much as we do |
| 01:12.50 | gnarface | devuan would be a great fit for them, but i don't think they all realize it |
| 01:13.26 | gnarface | i know they were working at fixes, but that linux-vservers have been allergic to systemd, traditionally |
| 01:13.39 | gnarface | at first, it simply would not work |
| 01:14.07 | gnarface | but i know that members of their group are working at fixes out of fear of becoming irrelevant |
| 01:14.26 | gnarface | for the others of them i somehow wish that this project and theirs could circle wagons against systemd though |
| 01:14.40 | fsmithred | sounds like a plan |
| 01:15.39 | gnarface | in the entertainment industry, i'd have a simple fix to get this started |
| 01:15.59 | gnarface | unfortunately the open source software industry is prohibitively spread out for that |
| 01:17.09 | fsmithred | yeah, but we're in the middle of an influx of new people |
| 01:17.41 | fsmithred | we've lasted long enough that some are taking notice |
| 01:18.11 | fsmithred | I'm in an optimistic mood |
| 01:18.22 | fsmithred | the upgrade from hell today actually worked |
| 01:18.44 | gnarface | it would be really cool to me to see the linux-vservers pre-packaged kernel packages from debian come back to devuan but NOT debian |
| 01:19.04 | fsmithred | yeah :) |
| 01:19.20 | gnarface | i'm fine patching and building it myself, but it's technology that would still be valuable for people who can't do that |
| 01:20.47 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p200300C90BC48D00008094B8F88EC096.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:23.41 | Hurgotron | gnarface: Actually I might give it a try, creating linux-vserver patches for Devuan. |
| 01:24.59 | gnarface | Hurgotron: a noble goal, to be sure |
| 01:25.47 | Hurgotron | The linux-vserver project is in maintenance mode, though, ie. not very actively developed anymore. There are one or two similar kernel features, but not quite as mature. |
| 01:26.27 | gnarface | well their last stable patch is against what, kernel 4.1.xx something still? i think they're still ahead of us. |
| 01:27.37 | Hurgotron | 4.1.42, jul 18 |
| 01:29.33 | Hurgotron | LXC is probably the future, but not there yet. Sticking with linux-vserver for now. |
| 01:30.46 | Hurgotron | It's somewhat similar to Docker BTW, container virtualization. But, well, I've been using it for 15 years, so I had to smile a lot when people descrived the (then) brand new Docker stuff to me :) |
| 01:33.35 | Hurgotron | gnarface: About my upgrade plans - the RAID array stuff is one of my least concerns, since md is all kernel based. As long as my installer kernel knows md so the insallter sees the right devices, all should be fine. |
| 01:34.51 | gnarface | Hurgotron: yea, i'm with you. nobody here is gonna greenlight that and claim they're sure it'll work without first-hand experience in doing so though. this isn't linux mint. |
| 01:35.18 | gnarface | Hurgotron: i do wish that people would spend less time dancing around avoiding saying "i dunno" though |
| 01:36.25 | gnarface | (that seems to be a pervasive problem that extends far beyond just linux though, out into all aspects of society) |
| 01:37.26 | Hurgotron | handling of lvm and luks crypto stuff might be more of a problem. - Right, I know this would be tricky and I may hit new and interesting bugs. But I think I know my way around. I just wanted to avoid unnecessary attempts by choosing an installer which does not have the features I need. |
| 01:38.00 | fsmithred | the raid is separate from the os you want to upgrade or replace? |
| 01:39.07 | fsmithred | devuan uses debian kernels unchanged |
| 01:39.23 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@2a02:8070:4182:a200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d) |
| 01:40.26 | Hurgotron | No. I have 2 disks, md RAID-1 on them, device encryption with luks, and lvm on top of that. It's a configuration variant offered by the Ubuntu installer. |
| 01:41.17 | fsmithred | so, worst case scenario is that you have to set up the new system manually to handle that |
| 01:41.39 | Hurgotron | I'll basically clear the OS partitions and install Devuan on them. The kernel should be able to handle the setup. I'm quite sure I can get it to work, but I may need more than one attempt :) |
| 01:42.08 | fsmithred | make sure you install cryptsetup, lvm (is it still called lvm2?) and mdadm |
| 01:42.22 | Hurgotron | right. |
| 01:43.02 | fsmithred | just had a thought - if you boot an installer iso, go to advanced and then |
| 01:43.08 | fsmithred | I think it's called rescue |
| 01:43.33 | fsmithred | it asks if you want to mount devices it finds, I think it asks if you want to chroot |
| 01:43.53 | Hurgotron | can I start the installer from rescue? |
| 01:44.26 | fsmithred | I don't know if the installer itself will let you use it. |
| 01:44.40 | fsmithred | are you familiar with the debian installer? |
| 01:45.36 | fsmithred | not sure if you can start the installer from rescue without a reboot |
| 01:46.04 | fsmithred | you can get to a different console and run commands during the install |
| 01:46.14 | Hurgotron | Most of the time, when I need to du similar tinkering, I just open a console after starting the installer and sort devices there, so the installer later sees the right devices. - Been mostly using Ubuntu the last years. Now switching distros for systemd reasons. |
| 01:47.34 | fsmithred | you can boot an installer iso and play around with it |
| 01:47.57 | fsmithred | if you run the installer, you can get all the way through the partitioner and abort before making any changes |
| 01:48.16 | Hurgotron | thought so... |
| 01:48.36 | fsmithred | the partitioner can be confusing when you start with making lvm or encrypted |
| 01:49.02 | fsmithred | but the whole thing is weird enough that it might be possible to do what you want |
| 01:50.01 | fsmithred | I hope you will report on your adventures |
| 01:51.11 | Hurgotron | I expect the installer to have issues with a preexisting encrypted lvm setup, indeed. Usually installers are made to create them, but not use preexisting ones. |
| 01:51.19 | Hurgotron | But I guess I can work around that. |
| 01:51.31 | Hurgotron | I'll be happy to report :) |
| 01:52.06 | Hurgotron | But first, some sleep. |
| 01:52.36 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@p4FD034A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:52.50 | Hurgotron | Bye, and thanks for the input :) |
| 02:02.47 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 02:23.39 | *** join/#devuan mn3m (~mn3m@unaffiliated/mn3m) |
| 02:27.48 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@211.114.220.111.sta.wbroadband.net.au) |
| 02:36.28 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.58.41.253) |
| 02:53.48 | fromport | wow.... just read this in the history of #openmediavault |
| 02:53.51 | fromport | 01:29 < bozonius> will OMV4 be ported to devuan (or one of its derivatives)? :-| |
| 02:53.55 | fromport | 08:38 < votdev> bozonius: Why should we do that. systemd is cool. |
| 02:53.57 | fromport | 08:39 < votdev> And really, these guys are wasting their time. That's my opinion. |
| 02:54.21 | fromport | votdev == volker == author of openmediavault. |
| 02:54.53 | fromport | if he would have stayed neutral, that is okay. this is not nice [tm] |
| 03:02.35 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 03:17.42 | *** join/#devuan sedrosken_ (~sedrosken@static-204-62-58-150.ptr.shelbybb.com) |
| 03:35.53 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (chris@2001:470:4b:38f:777::8774) |
| 04:05.56 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 04:30.53 | *** join/#devuan sedrosken (~sedrosken@static-204-62-58-150.ptr.shelbybb.com) |
| 04:56.08 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 05:04.56 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 05:10.42 | *** join/#devuan xar- (xar-@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe24:4661) |
| 05:39.12 | *** join/#devuan telst4r (~telst4r@fsf/member/telst4r) |
| 05:43.22 | *** join/#devuan p4cman (uid171740@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-djjpdntggerugbbp) |
| 05:46.18 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@89-78-6-88.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 05:55.54 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@5.146.73.225) |
| 06:26.43 | *** join/#devuan Ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 06:43.00 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@ppp-94-66-62-191.home.otenet.gr) |
| 06:49.45 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-10.home.otenet.gr) |
| 06:52.37 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc09:f100:221:29ff:fee0:d7a1) |
| 06:53.23 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 07:21.39 | *** join/#devuan vuagroup (b20e18e3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.14.24.227) |
| 07:21.51 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 07:21.57 | AlexLikeRock | gnus |
| 07:22.01 | AlexLikeRock | o/ |
| 07:22.58 | vuagroup | fromport: Maybe come up with a witty ad hominin attack against systemd supporters like votdev? |
| 07:23.02 | vuagroup | !poettering |
| 07:23.03 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal |
| 07:24.11 | vuagroup | Nothing shows your superior verteran-level knowledge like calling people you disagree with a cancer. |
| 07:25.00 | MinceR | nice, i'll stop doing the other ways, then |
| 07:25.10 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@host17-168-static.38-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:25.51 | *** join/#devuan rann (sid175221@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vyidlheowonzsbuv) |
| 07:26.27 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@host248-53-dynamic.171-212-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:30.06 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b864aef700021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 07:46.11 | *** join/#devuan kaboutur (~kaboutur@84.241.211.16) |
| 07:58.50 | *** join/#devuan nmollerup (~nmo@91.214.20.132) |
| 08:08.09 | *** join/#devuan kaboutur (~kaboutur@84.241.192.53) |
| 08:13.18 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.248.40.235) |
| 08:13.56 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@host17-168-static.38-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:22.22 | nacelle | sarcasm is a harsh thing |
| 08:22.51 | nacelle | i have to quantum process your irc just to come up with ambivalent conclusions |
| 08:26.09 | kaboutur | say what? |
| 08:29.34 | kaboutur | wrong chan |
| 08:31.36 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 08:41.08 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 08:42.27 | *** join/#devuan lowin (~lowin@unaffiliated/lowin) |
| 08:46.23 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@239.red-80-59-216.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:56.09 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.42.17) |
| 09:10.54 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 09:25.22 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 09:37.52 | *** join/#devuan godbed (~Wowbagger@HSI-KBW-046-005-194-230.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 09:39.37 | *** part/#devuan kaboutur| (~kaboutur@84.241.192.53) |
| 09:51.27 | ange | fromport: my opinion is to not worry about what X is saying about the project, even if it's only serving the purpose of a handful it's already great |
| 10:01.14 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@2a02:8070:4182:a200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d) |
| 10:12.07 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc09:f100:221:29ff:fee0:d7a1) |
| 10:13.18 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 10:14.16 | *** join/#devuan mn3m (~mn3m@unaffiliated/mn3m) |
| 10:20.13 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 10:20.18 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 10:21.28 | *** part/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 10:24.28 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@host248-53-dynamic.171-212-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:24.39 | *** join/#devuan mn3m (~mn3m@unaffiliated/mn3m) |
| 10:28.07 | *** join/#devuan phormulate (~phormulat@unaffiliated/phormulate) |
| 10:29.29 | *** join/#devuan mn3m_ (~mn3m@unaffiliated/mn3m) |
| 10:38.20 | *** join/#devuan mn3m_ (~mn3m@unaffiliated/mn3m) |
| 10:48.05 | *** join/#devuan margeas (~marco@93.115.85.133) |
| 11:03.36 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@mou76-1-82-236-58-180.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:08.34 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-48-155.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 11:42.10 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-48-155.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 11:45.02 | *** join/#devuan blinkdog (~blinkdog@wipac-user-nat.icecube.wisc.edu) |
| 11:54.45 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn (UNKNOWN@p5797DE8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:59.37 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 12:07.25 | *** join/#devuan MY_R (~NO@unaffiliated/my-r/x-3859955) |
| 12:15.08 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.42.17) |
| 12:33.20 | *** join/#devuan aqu4 (~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen/bot/aqu4) |
| 12:37.03 | *** join/#devuan Kruppt (~Kirk_Krup@50.111.28.169) |
| 12:38.00 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 12:40.48 | *** join/#devuan Maarten (~smuxi@185.47.133.96) |
| 12:42.10 | *** join/#devuan mns`_ (b156ff05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.86.255.5) |
| 12:57.57 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.75.30) |
| 13:03.35 | *** join/#devuan OxFEEDBACC (~what@x527163f8.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 13:03.35 | *** join/#devuan OxFEEDBACC (~what@unaffiliated/oxfeedbacc) |
| 13:11.00 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 13:15.29 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 13:15.43 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b864aef700021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 13:26.14 | Ryushin | KatolaZ: So the ZFS patch compiled against 0.6.5.11-1~bpo9+1 just fine. I'm wondering about ZFS in Devuan. Frankly, I just don't have time to be a package maintainer. Second, to be a package maintainer for something as important as a file system, I just don't want to go there. Do you think posting on the mailing list asking for someone who runs ZFS to see if they want to be the package maintainer? |
| 13:26.31 | Ryushin | Sure would be nice for ascii to have the ZFS modules included in the kernel. |
| 13:26.55 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 13:31.32 | *** join/#devuan rsx (~rsx@ppp-46-244-253-139.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 13:52.38 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-39-245.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 13:52.48 | *** join/#devuan LeoTh3o (~LeoTh3o@phoxden.xyz) |
| 13:59.10 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-56-100.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 14:17.54 | *** join/#devuan p4cman (uid171740@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hpavcqtoqcfvbxkx) |
| 14:22.21 | KatolaZ | Ryushin: yep, maybe asking on devuan-dev first |
| 14:22.24 | KatolaZ | and then on DNG |
| 14:23.51 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.36.171) |
| 14:24.05 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-58.home.otenet.gr) |
| 14:25.25 | Ryushin | KatolaZ: Okay, thank you. |
| 14:30.53 | KatolaZ | np |
| 14:31.33 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 14:31.40 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.180) |
| 14:54.05 | *** join/#devuan LeoTh3o (~LeoTh3o@2.236.252.139) |
| 14:54.33 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 15:01.35 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn_ (UNKNOWN@p5797DDDF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:11.09 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-62-51.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 15:14.37 | *** join/#devuan eliasr (uid27497@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vfwzypyxtvnpqypz) |
| 15:26.18 | *** join/#devuan cyteen (~cyteen@230.178.93.209.dyn.plus.net) |
| 15:34.19 | *** join/#devuan W_T (~wojciech@77-253-68-46.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 15:52.09 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@asterisk.impamark.co.uk) |
| 15:58.42 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@5.146.73.225) |
| 16:00.35 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.36.171) |
| 16:12.25 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@asterisk.impamark.co.uk) |
| 16:28.18 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@ip-37-201-5-138.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:32.29 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@178.62.71.12) |
| 16:34.28 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-62-51.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 16:51.42 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-5d6a5b-151.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:54.18 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@2a02:8070:4182:a200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d) |
| 17:06.44 | *** join/#devuan asbesto (~asbesto@78-134-64-126.v4.ngi.it) |
| 17:09.55 | *** join/#devuan reetp (~john@239.red-80-59-216.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:10.30 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.36.171) |
| 17:11.38 | *** join/#devuan LeoTh3o (~LeoTh3o@2.236.252.139) |
| 17:12.52 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 17:12.58 | freem | Hello. |
| 17:14.19 | freem | There is something that intrigue me a lot in devuan: packages descriptions are empty in aptitude. What could be the cause? |
| 17:15.01 | golinux | Change your sources list to pull from amprolla3 and you'll have them back |
| 17:15.41 | golinux | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1671 |
| 17:19.48 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@mc70536d0.tmodns.net) |
| 17:20.59 | freem | thanks, I'll try it, but before changing sources, I would prefer to understand what amprolla3 is? Is there is some explanations on what it is somewhere? The link you posted does not enlight me on this. |
| 17:21.02 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@2a02:8070:4182:a200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d) |
| 17:21.39 | blinkdog | amprolla = Software that merges Debian repositories with Devuan repositories |
| 17:22.02 | blinkdog | It's so Devuan can provide the packages that changed while enabling most of Debian upstream to be used, including security updates |
| 17:22.30 | freem | ok, so this won't imply the need to update the packages from new sources? |
| 17:22.31 | blinkdog | amprolla3 = The new version of amprolla that does this better |
| 17:24.02 | blinkdog | when you change your sources list to point to pkgmaster (the one running amprolla3) you get the descriptions back because amprolla3 will provide them |
| 17:24.21 | blinkdog | so you are getting your packages from a different source, but same people are behind it, they're just providing them in a more functional way |
| 17:26.48 | freem | I see. So, no need to reinstall the whole stuff? Good. |
| 17:31.28 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-36-112.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 17:32.23 | freem | it does not seems to change anything for the jessie version? |
| 17:34.52 | freem | I changed my sources.list stuff to http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged jessie main contrib non-free, updated the list, and still can't see any description for packages |
| 17:40.12 | golinux | There are other repos like security and devuan specific that should also be listed. merged only contain pkgs coming directly from debianRead the link that I posted |
| 17:41.00 | golinux | amprolla3 also allows for https |
| 17:41.02 | freem | of course, I changed the 4 repos I have this way. It was to avoid spamming the chan |
| 17:41.50 | freem | oh. Hum... so the problem comes from merged? |
| 17:41.55 | golinux | OK. The you should be good. |
| 17:42.16 | golinux | I have not switched yet so have no personal experience. |
| 17:43.49 | freem | oh, so this is a still missing feature? |
| 17:44.50 | freem | Well, it's a bit annoying, but not blocking for me, I know almost all the packages I'm used to install... I'm just having a doubt on an unrelated compiling issue |
| 17:45.18 | *** join/#devuan cioran89 (~cioran89@p5DDF2FCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:46.06 | freem | is there is a bugtracker for devuan somewhere? |
| 17:47.08 | freem | I'd like to check if there are some bugs I can help fix. |
| 17:48.39 | *** join/#devuan cioran89 (~cioran89@p5DDF2FCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:49.58 | mn3m | Hello. Can someone please tell why wpasupplicant security update (2:2.4-1+deb9u1) on ascii go as 'ascii-proposed-updates', which require manual install with pinned package version (prio=100), but not from 'ascii-security'? |
| 17:53.02 | *** join/#devuan DingoSaar (~hagen@pD9E093FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:53.56 | *** part/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 17:54.25 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 17:54.56 | *** join/#devuan DingoSaar (~hagen@pD9E093FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:03.51 | *** join/#devuan cioran89_ (~cioran89@p5DDF2FCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:07.54 | _stephen_ | Can anyone recommend some password keepers for the command line? password gorilla's lack of cli is finally a problem for me. |
| 18:09.13 | xar- | _stephen_: `pass` https://git.zx2c4.com/password-store/about/ |
| 18:09.57 | xar- | _stephen_: good article for you: https://www.passwordstore.org/ |
| 18:10.41 | _stephen_ | Awesome! thank you |
| 18:11.20 | xar- | np |
| 18:11.49 | xar- | _stephen_: gorilla converter: |
| 18:11.52 | xar- | https://git.zx2c4.com/password-store/tree/contrib/importers/gorilla2pass.rb |
| 18:12.32 | xar- | (your mileage may vary) |
| 18:12.46 | _stephen_ | cool |
| 18:12.49 | _stephen_ | I'll check that out. |
| 18:13.20 | xar- | yup |
| 18:15.29 | *** join/#devuan giricz81 (~giricz81@ip4-83-240-38-90.cust.nbox.cz) |
| 18:30.29 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.47.202.30) |
| 18:40.00 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-58.home.otenet.gr) |
| 18:41.40 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 18:47.17 | *** join/#devuan dijimumin (525e2a31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.94.42.49) |
| 18:48.09 | ange | is there some regular post on the status of the project ? |
| 18:51.43 | *** join/#devuan LeoTh3o (~LeoTh3o@2.236.252.139) |
| 18:52.23 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.47.202.30) |
| 18:58.20 | dijimumin | Any plans on making MATE as the default DE? |
| 18:59.20 | gnarface | i think everyone actually likes xfce |
| 18:59.35 | furrywolf | I tried xfce. I did not like it. icewm rocks. |
| 18:59.39 | _stephen_ | There's still time, I vote that ascii should have only a text interface. |
| 18:59.55 | MinceR | fvwm rules, and xfce4-panel works well with it :> |
| 18:59.59 | MinceR | xfce > mate |
| 19:00.00 | dijimumin | I remember Jaromil saying he would want to make MATE as the default DE in ascii. But that was 6 months ago.. |
| 19:00.15 | gnarface | votes for e17 |
| 19:00.17 | _stephen_ | MinceR: you post your fvwm config online? |
| 19:00.21 | furrywolf | why do we need a default? tasksel! |
| 19:00.23 | freem | i3 rocks. |
| 19:00.34 | freem | I agree with furrywolf. |
| 19:00.35 | MinceR | not yet |
| 19:00.48 | MinceR | n00bs need a default :> |
| 19:01.05 | freem | do devuan's devs aims the noobs? |
| 19:01.16 | freem | the kind of noobs that do not want to learn, I mean? |
| 19:01.34 | MinceR | even the kind of noob that wants to learn could benefit from a default desktop |
| 19:01.45 | dijimumin | "I'm so keen to make way to mate as default desktop in ascii" - Jaromil (April 2017) |
| 19:01.47 | freem | this is... not that true |
| 19:03.01 | dijimumin | freem: you must be a (former) Arch user |
| 19:03.18 | freem | MinceR, I think that newbies that wanna learn just need something intuitive, self-descriptive and that points to learn-spots. It does not imply a default choice, but defaults helps doing that for people doing it |
| 19:03.29 | golinux | dijimumin: Wishful thinking from someone I've never seen here before. |
| 19:03.55 | golinux | freem: https://bugs.devuan.org/ |
| 19:04.19 | freem | dijimumin: I tried once. It had packages conflicts on Xorg. Never tried it after that. |
| 19:04.26 | dijimumin | golinux: it literally were his words |
| 19:04.58 | blinkdog | dijimumin: Do you have a link to the source of that quote? |
| 19:05.14 | dijimumin | of course |
| 19:05.19 | dijimumin | wait a moment pls |
| 19:05.29 | freem | golinux: you are right, I'm not from here, yes, and I think what devuan does is quite interesting. I don't know how to solve it, too, it's true. |
| 19:06.05 | MinceR | _stephen_: http://paste.lisp.org/+7PHI |
| 19:06.07 | dijimumin | blinkdog: here you go --> https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-04-01/?tz=Europe/Berlin |
| 19:06.08 | golinux | Others have reported now having the descriptions. |
| 19:06.10 | *** part/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@mou76-1-82-236-58-180.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:06.25 | dijimumin | oh btw I don't think it was a April 1st joke |
| 19:06.29 | freem | really? I'll search for that |
| 19:06.38 | *** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@109.130.174.227) |
| 19:06.39 | golinux | dijimumin: jaromil says a lot of things depending on his mood. ;) |
| 19:06.44 | dijimumin | keyword = mate |
| 19:07.27 | dijimumin | golinux: :)) |
| 19:08.07 | dijimumin | I just watched his presentation about Devuan. What a fascinating presentation. |
| 19:08.20 | freem | mind share a link? |
| 19:08.33 | dijimumin | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMvyOGawNwo\ |
| 19:08.41 | freem | thx |
| 19:08.54 | _stephen_ | MinceR: I similarly configured the panels from xfce and ran fvwm on the computer I set up for my kids. |
| 19:09.02 | MinceR | :) |
| 19:09.49 | golinux | dijimumin: I'm not seeing anything from jaromil posted at that link. |
| 19:10.00 | dijimumin | Are you sure? |
| 19:10.13 | freem | I have a question that is by far outside any distrib or OS. What are the main features of a desktop for you, people? |
| 19:10.21 | golinux | let me c/p again |
| 19:11.03 | gnarface | freem: they're gonna tell you to take offtopic conversation to #debianfork |
| 19:11.19 | freem | ok, then, just forget that :) |
| 19:11.31 | dijimumin | golinux: do you know a good website where i can upload a screenshot to show you? |
| 19:11.39 | freem | and accept my apologies, please. |
| 19:12.33 | golinux | https://transfer.sh/ |
| 19:13.21 | _stephen_ | there's such a thing as off topic? |
| 19:13.28 | *** join/#devuan OmegaPhil (~kvirc@62.212.72.243) |
| 19:13.28 | *** join/#devuan OmegaPhil (~kvirc@fsf/member/OmegaPhil) |
| 19:13.28 | dijimumin | golinux: https://transfer.sh/ExKdt/devuanirclog.PNG |
| 19:14.07 | dijimumin | stephen: actually it's not that offtopic. It was about making MATE as the default for ascii |
| 19:16.23 | golinux | dijimumin: We will finally be having the mate repos available in devuan (that might already have happened) but I doubt it will be the default. |
| 19:17.01 | golinux | That section was just some banter between old friends. |
| 19:17.22 | dijimumin | hmm.. |
| 19:17.38 | freem | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.08 | _stephen_ | freem: I imagine most people will want the specific thing they use to be the default. |
| 19:18.11 | golinux | There as been no mention of it being default since |
| 19:18.39 | _stephen_ | How is the default stuff chosen? |
| 19:18.48 | _stephen_ | Is there a vote of some kind? |
| 19:18.51 | golinux | A desktop preference discussion should go to #debianfork |
| 19:19.12 | _stephen_ | My question is how does devuan choose its defaults... |
| 19:19.27 | golinux | No vote per se. |
| 19:19.31 | freem | _stephen_, this is true, but from the many customs of it's members, a group might extract a sane subset that would a decent "center". |
| 19:20.33 | freem | sorry for my english, I surely lack expressions |
| 19:21.04 | golinux | freem: Your English is fine |
| 19:21.32 | golinux | This is a help channel not a desktop debate channel. ;) |
| 19:21.37 | freem | I still feel I can't express myself correctly, as exactly as I would. |
| 19:21.49 | *** join/#devuan SuicideJunkie (~nick@CPE000f6638c2b8-CM0c473de90d90.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:22.43 | freem | so, is this the right place to ask where are the different channels where one might ask for or provide (to users) help ? |
| 19:23.23 | gnarface | freem: type this: /topic |
| 19:23.33 | *** join/#devuan ChubYann (~ChubYann@LFbn-BOR-1-14-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:23.57 | nailyk | do you have a mastodon account for devuan please? |
| 19:24.56 | freem | that topic is quite obscure, imho. |
| 19:25.56 | gnarface | freem: the answer is yes, this is the support channel. if you'd rather start a fight about which desktop environment is better, do that in #debianfork |
| 19:26.14 | freem | nah, I don't wanna fight. |
| 19:26.25 | freem | it was just a misplaced question |
| 19:26.29 | gnarface | freem: if you have an actual support question, just ask it. don't ask for permission to ask. |
| 19:26.56 | gnarface | (you'll almost never get anyone to sign off on a blank check like that) |
| 19:29.07 | freem | Then, how is the devuan project organized? I have hopefully decent skill in C++, known my debian system decently, and would like to see if I can help, on small tasks since I do not think I'm an expert and since I think many things might be improved? |
| 19:30.18 | freem | I can also do some french translations or documentations, since it's my native language. |
| 19:31.16 | gnarface | well, let's see |
| 19:31.18 | freem | and, I wan't to help keeping a stable ditribution not depending on a project that have no limits on it's goals while still being critical for systems it runs on. |
| 19:31.28 | gnarface | there's a mailing list |
| 19:31.32 | gnarface | there's a couple irc channels |
| 19:31.33 | ange | opens an eye |
| 19:31.42 | gnarface | there's a gitlab (git.devuan.org) |
| 19:31.45 | freem | close the eye of ange |
| 19:32.33 | freem | I wen't on the gitlab, but I must admit I where not able to find my way to things I could even try to do before submitting things. |
| 19:32.34 | ange | freem: I want to know too |
| 19:32.47 | freem | :p |
| 19:33.07 | freem | sorry ange, couldn't resist |
| 19:33.13 | gnarface | freem: did you check out devuan.org? |
| 19:33.39 | blinkdog | What things would you like to work on freem? |
| 19:33.51 | freem | I did, but pardon me, it's not really friendly for people which might want to try to check if they can help |
| 19:34.57 | gnarface | translations might be actually useful |
| 19:35.03 | gnarface | check here too: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=589 |
| 19:35.09 | freem | blinkdog: it would be easier if I say why I liked debian, several years ago, and where my knowledge led me. |
| 19:36.17 | freem | I was an advanced windows user, almost hacker. I loved Debian because almost every thing could be changed without breaking the system. |
| 19:36.27 | ange | same for me, I would like to be able to push devuan forward, is there a place with a regular state of affairs being published ? a list of things to be worked on or where help is needed ? |
| 19:36.52 | gnarface | freem, ange https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=589 |
| 19:36.56 | gnarface | this was linked from devuan.org |
| 19:37.04 | gnarface | i agree it should probably be on the page and not in a forum post |
| 19:37.18 | gnarface | but it contains direct answers to most the questions you've both just asked |
| 19:37.53 | ange | reads |
| 19:37.54 | ange | thanks |
| 19:38.25 | gnarface | as for french translations, freem you might want to pay special attention that this page here (https://devuan.org/os/community) includes #devuan-fr amongst the irc channels listed. i dunno if anyone is over there right now, but i'm guessing that if they are, they could use some translations. |
| 19:38.37 | freem | I went to fairly minimal systems, and started being active on the international mailing list of debian, until the war, in which I was censored because replying to someone talking against systemd. |
| 19:39.08 | freem | I'll note those links. |
| 19:39.43 | ange | gnarface: for the machines and infrastructure who can I talk to for more precise description of needs ? |
| 19:40.03 | freem | btw, you could use use forum threads with human readable URIs. |
| 19:41.13 | gnarface | ange: i'm actually not 100% sure but i think parazyd or someone in #devuan-dev should know |
| 19:41.44 | parazyd | what's up? |
| 19:42.11 | gnarface | more new guys asking about where they can send hardware donations |
| 19:42.20 | ange | ok thanks; I am shit a C but I can look either at getting my own company to sponsor a host or help with infrastructure bits as it's more in my actual job |
| 19:42.35 | parazyd | what's the offer? |
| 19:43.11 | parazyd | x86 is mostly solved when it comes to build infra |
| 19:43.33 | ange | do you need a hand to help with infrastructure (keeping services up, monitoring, building stuff) ? |
| 19:44.04 | freem | gnarface: actually, for me, it's not hardware donations, but soft or translattions contributions. |
| 19:44.21 | parazyd | ange: ask in #devuan-dev. you'll want to talk to Centurion_Dan, rrq, and KatolaZ |
| 19:44.21 | ange | parazyd: ok so for hardware it's more related to non x86 things you would be looking into ? |
| 19:44.34 | ange | ok |
| 19:44.35 | parazyd | ange: right. ppc64, mipsel, and arm |
| 19:44.52 | freem | what is it about arm? |
| 19:45.20 | parazyd | freem: i could use more boards to test and develop on, and later on they can get included as build slaves on the devuan CI |
| 19:45.22 | sonnixin | hi people |
| 19:45.39 | freem | I mean, what are the needs? I do only know I recently changed for a job where we use beaglebones, maybe I could help in a way? |
| 19:45.41 | sonnixin | is it okay to use shim overlay with sysvinit ? |
| 19:46.51 | freem | we are actually using debian, but have several bugs, not really able to fix them. I could, eventually, arg about the benifits of changing distro |
| 19:47.04 | parazyd | freem: well, testing images mostly |
| 19:47.21 | parazyd | if you have spares, you could set them up to be included in the devuan build infrastructure |
| 19:47.58 | freem | this would imply someonoe to teach me the changes between debian jessie and devuan jessie |
| 19:48.19 | parazyd | it's a matter of changing the repositories and doing a dist-upgrade |
| 19:48.24 | freem | I can't play with my job's work as easily as with my home fun |
| 19:48.25 | ange | parazyd: you don't make use of any cloud based hosts to run builds ? I am thinking aws spot instances for example |
| 19:48.28 | parazyd | the change is that there is no more systemd |
| 19:48.33 | gnarface | freem: the best way to go about doing that is to figure out what changed between wheezy and jessie, then in your head change it back |
| 19:48.45 | parazyd | ange: we host our own hardware as much as we can |
| 19:49.52 | freem | gnarface: ok, but we have several strange bugs in beaglebone black stuff, like random reboot freezes, and are a small company |
| 19:50.19 | *** part/#devuan nonlinear (~nonlinear@unaffiliated/discrttm) |
| 19:50.37 | ange | parazyd: I see |
| 19:51.07 | freem | to be honest, I'm perferctly ok to go back to wheezy, but... the fact is that there were CVEs there, and still are in jessie. |
| 19:51.11 | ange | parazyd: as in own hardware and physically racked in rented space ? or places doing dedicated hosts are good too ? |
| 19:51.29 | parazyd | both |
| 19:52.03 | gnarface | freem: no i'm not saying to revert to wheezy. i'm just saying that devuan jessie is unchanged in basic init behavior from wheezy and earlier. nothing else was really changed. |
| 19:53.30 | gnarface | freem: you will see more different between debian jessie and wheezy than devuan jessie and wheezy |
| 19:54.13 | freem | gnarface: the fact is, that I personnally experienced (bad) changes from wheezy to jessie, and at work we use jessie, which means, if we go to devuan stable, we might have breakages, and I never really used personnally armhf stuff |
| 19:54.24 | freem | that we are using at work in production |
| 19:55.01 | gnarface | freem: yes, i have been there. i can tell you for sure that upgrading from wheezy to devuan instead would have been seamless though. |
| 19:55.18 | gnarface | i've tested it extensively |
| 19:55.35 | gnarface | unless you were using gnome or reiserfs, you're not likely to see any regressions |
| 19:55.59 | freem | fact is, in production, we have debian jessie installed, so, how would the "downgrade" to devuan jessie work? |
| 19:56.26 | freem | no, no GUIs there, all UI are by RS232/484 stuff |
| 19:56.28 | gnarface | it works, but it's gonna gut your init system. you should probably try changing it out first if possible. |
| 19:56.46 | dijimumin | how dare you to call it a "downgrade" :P |
| 19:56.49 | freem | good. |
| 19:56.59 | gnarface | don't do it on a production system, freem. try a test run first. |
| 19:57.07 | gnarface | it's easier for headless machines |
| 19:57.11 | freem | well, it was an "upgrade", so, the reverse is... :) |
| 19:57.39 | freem | we only use headless, and I do not intend to trust anyone blindly, not even myself :) |
| 19:58.08 | freem | I'm my worst ennemy, and I can't trust you more than me :p |
| 19:58.14 | freem | at work, at least. |
| 19:58.46 | gnarface | well at least you recognize it |
| 19:58.52 | freem | I guess I could reserve a beaglebone or 2 to run devuan. |
| 19:59.03 | freem | I'm a programmer, I know I write bugs. |
| 19:59.09 | gnarface | i hadn't had a debian stable upgrade tank on me ever, until jessie. |
| 19:59.31 | freem | I also know that on internet, girls are men, and girl childs are FBI agents |
| 20:00.14 | freem | haha, just try the last debian, you won't be able to run startx from a TTY anymore :) |
| 20:00.34 | freem | I can no longer support that... sorry, HS stuff. |
| 20:01.28 | freem | anyway... have anyone of you experienced, on the beaglebone black, freezes at reboot? |
| 20:01.53 | freem | and what report would you need for that kind of computers? |
| 20:02.09 | gnarface | first of all |
| 20:02.14 | gnarface | see if it's still happening on devuan |
| 20:02.39 | dijimumin | haven't used debian on the BBB. Only angstrom but that's a long time ago. |
| 20:02.41 | gnarface | and if it is, there's a bug tracker here: https://bugs.devuan.org/ |
| 20:02.49 | freem | it seems it would be related to kernel, not especially init. |
| 20:02.56 | gnarface | freem: it could be init |
| 20:03.22 | gnarface | freem: it could be choking trying to reboot without waiting for unmounting properly, or something like that. |
| 20:03.38 | freem | my colleagues's researches led more to u-boot, but I admit I don't understand how those computers works |
| 20:03.45 | gnarface | freem: or it could be the same bug affecting ubuntu xenial on my pinebook right now (which it should be noted is NOT happening for me on devuan, fyi) |
| 20:04.12 | gnarface | freem: it could be a problem with u-boot too, but i'd expect that to happen at startup rather than shutdown time |
| 20:04.26 | freem | that's the case, actually |
| 20:04.34 | gnarface | oh |
| 20:04.36 | gnarface | but intermittent? |
| 20:04.40 | freem | random. |
| 20:04.48 | gnarface | does that use eMMC? |
| 20:04.51 | *** join/#devuan marulo (~Marulo@host5.190-230-100.telecom.net.ar) |
| 20:04.53 | gnarface | or microSD? |
| 20:04.59 | gnarface | something else? NAND? |
| 20:05.09 | freem | sometimes the stuff never boots, sometimes it does, usually it boots 5 times in a row before stopping |
| 20:05.14 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 20:05.17 | gnarface | that's strange |
| 20:05.18 | freem | eMMC AFAIK |
| 20:05.30 | gnarface | is it mainline u-boot or legacy? |
| 20:05.49 | freem | I could ask more details at work, we are friday evening here, so monday.... |
| 20:06.20 | gnarface | i've been testing a fork of mainline and i heard people saying the eMMC support wasn't really stable on it, but i couldn't even get it to build with it enabled, so i've been using microSD for now. the problem isn't happening on microSD |
| 20:06.29 | freem | I... do not know. I'm almost sure my colleagues do not know either, they know less than I about low level stuff |
| 20:06.42 | gnarface | that seems to be unrelated to the shutdown problem in xenial (which i suspect is systemd related) |
| 20:07.10 | freem | can't you have logs about the ubuntu stuff? |
| 20:07.19 | freem | I mean, written logs? |
| 20:07.37 | freem | I'm not only here to ask, after all, I alsa might help :) |
| 20:07.51 | gnarface | uh, probably but i didn't look. i wasn't actually intending to use ubuntu, but i still needed to power the machine on with what it came stock with once or twice to test that it worked, and i noticed it didn't always shutdown right |
| 20:08.21 | freem | oh, you don't anymore have the bug then |
| 20:08.28 | gnarface | if i still have the problem later with devuan i'll look into it deeper |
| 20:08.46 | freem | which version of devuan are you using? |
| 20:08.46 | gnarface | right now i'm about where you're at, trying to figure out how to get eMMC support going |
| 20:09.01 | gnarface | that was ascii, i was using. but i crossbuilt u-boot from ceres |
| 20:09.09 | freem | you probably have so much more knowledge than me |
| 20:09.18 | gnarface | about a day at most |
| 20:09.43 | freem | hahaha, no, I think more thant that, I'm new on those non-intel stuff |
| 20:09.54 | gnarface | me too... |
| 20:10.01 | freem | nice |
| 20:10.55 | freem | let's see then. I know almost only the name about u-boot, why do other more common boot loaders could not be ported to arm? |
| 20:11.00 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.248.40.235) |
| 20:11.37 | gnarface | i don't know that |
| 20:11.40 | freem | this is very low level, but, in practice, in 5 years, all the low level stuff changed |
| 20:11.47 | freem | crap, I had hope |
| 20:11.54 | gnarface | but i think it has something to do with the fact there's not enough uniformity in different arm hardware vendor's implementations |
| 20:12.09 | gnarface | so u-boot was meant to add uniformity in behavior |
| 20:12.18 | gnarface | which, of course it is still failing at catastrophically |
| 20:12.21 | freem | I've read here or there that armhf implementations are quite random? |
| 20:12.52 | freem | it was in several publication on linuxfr.org about linux kernels |
| 20:13.13 | freem | I can't pretend I understood their content though |
| 20:13.29 | gnarface | i think it's all like custom stuff, by different competing hardware manufacturers, most of which hate linux or at least don't care about it, and definitely are opposed to interoperability |
| 20:14.02 | freem | I don't think they hate linux, since only linux support them |
| 20:14.09 | gnarface | some manufacturers provide some help to the u-boot effort, and some don't |
| 20:14.12 | freem | but they do hate interop |
| 20:14.45 | freem | but before malicious intents, consider the lack of skills, it is often truer |
| 20:15.08 | gnarface | oh, so you've never run into anyone who was maliciously unskilled? |
| 20:15.08 | freem | hiding lack of skills being other stuff |
| 20:15.41 | gnarface | yea, at a certain point, a certain level of incompetence is no longer materially different from criminal negligence |
| 20:15.42 | freem | maybe I did, but I never noticed it, which is quite different: my social skills are rather limited |
| 20:16.12 | gnarface | i'm new to this too. i've only very recently discovered how sneaky stupid people can be. |
| 20:16.28 | freem | stupid, i know |
| 20:17.14 | freem | but i prefer to consider lack of skill before malicious intents |
| 20:18.06 | freem | this helps me to not send people to hell, and so helps me move forward. |
| 20:19.05 | freem | hum, anyway.... I could borrow one of the beaglebone black I think |
| 20:19.23 | freem | maybe more |
| 20:20.19 | dijimumin | I do have one too but it's not the eMMC version |
| 20:20.36 | freem | I am not a low level hacker, I never had the occasion, but if I can do something to help |
| 20:21.04 | freem | it seems that we had several eMMC versions |
| 20:21.37 | freem | from the same enterprise for the same model (there must be a better phrasing, but I do not know it) |
| 20:22.13 | freem | I think we are using eMMC version, but I can't even be sure. Could you describe how to distinct them? |
| 20:22.23 | dijimumin | Mine is rev C so I cannot be of help i think |
| 20:22.27 | *** join/#devuan mn3m (~mn3m@unaffiliated/mn3m) |
| 20:22.48 | dijimumin | They had different PCB colors IIRC |
| 20:22.52 | freem | I'm really new at non-x86 stuff :/ |
| 20:23.10 | freem | I think we use black things |
| 20:23.19 | ange | freem: if you can stroll ebay for some old sun stuff, very fun to play with |
| 20:23.23 | freem | I've seen several, but didn't paid attention |
| 20:24.02 | *** join/#devuan atrapado_ (~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado) |
| 20:24.41 | freem | ange: I am out of some sort of crisis, and offered myself this shiny computer, I won't buy useless things just for fun before several months: I have to payback my friends. |
| 20:25.11 | ange | :) +1 very good |
| 20:25.21 | freem | mother and father, actually. So, I only have my skills to offer, for now. |
| 20:26.38 | freem | so, what was the HS channel, already? |
| 20:26.57 | freem | I meant, Out of subject |
| 20:27.36 | freem | I must renew my numeric life btw |
| 20:27.51 | fsmithred | it's #debianfork |
| 20:28.08 | freem | ah, the so controversial name |
| 20:28.22 | fsmithred | it was the first place that people gathered |
| 20:28.39 | fsmithred | wow, was that three years ago? |
| 20:28.49 | Evilham | time flies, doesn't it? |
| 20:29.16 | freem | more or less, yes |
| 20:29.45 | fsmithred | yes. One day I said, "Where did the last year go?" and my 95-year-old aunt said, "Where did the last 10 go?" |
| 20:29.59 | freem | you know, that name was one of the reason I could not join, because it was too aggressive for me |
| 20:30.00 | dijimumin | freem: It seems I recalled it wrong. I just checked, it turns out I have A5C which has 2GBs of eMMC |
| 20:30.34 | fsmithred | freem, if you're looking for a translation project, I have one. |
| 20:30.48 | fsmithred | for the live-CD installer |
| 20:30.57 | freem | fsmithred, pointer? |
| 20:31.08 | dijimumin | So I can provide some feedback on devuan on the BBB if you guys need |
| 20:31.12 | fsmithred | one sec |
| 20:31.34 | freem | if this is the same installer than debian, then, I might work at just replacing it, it's so... annoying. |
| 20:31.49 | freem | but translations would be a good step to start with |
| 20:32.32 | gnarface | freem: the livecd is something different from the real installer, though it has an installation feature. it's also very popular with new users though, so it's great for outreach |
| 20:32.50 | fsmithred | https://github.com/fsmithred/refractainstaller-base/blob/master/refractainstaller-base.pot |
| 20:33.20 | freem | live is better than install, imho, but... there is something I've always wished to fix, and even started to work on |
| 20:33.33 | fsmithred | what's that? |
| 20:33.46 | fsmithred | you want to make your own live iso? |
| 20:33.59 | freem | I wanted the installer to 1st ask, and then do, for first step, on which I didn't work on |
| 20:34.19 | fsmithred | ask what? |
| 20:34.35 | freem | and then I wanted it to display a more efficient aptitude interface instead of the choice of packages |
| 20:34.41 | dijimumin | freem: where does HS stand for? |
| 20:35.21 | ange | "Hors Sujet" literally "Out of topic"; |
| 20:35.27 | freem | ask everything first, and then do, with multi-process when possible, which is currently impossible because of the implementation of dpkg/apt |
| 20:35.37 | freem | thanks ange |
| 20:35.41 | dijimumin | aha |
| 20:35.53 | fsmithred | oh, the live installer just copies the running live system to hard drive |
| 20:36.05 | fsmithred | it asks a few questions and then runs rsync |
| 20:36.14 | ange | or "Hors Service" -> "Out of Service" (actually) |
| 20:37.21 | freem | which is quite close, whith some steps back: when a discussion is out of topic, it is like a machine out of service :) |
| 20:37.25 | gnarface | freem: ever tried th is? https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed |
| 20:37.27 | gnarface | *this |
| 20:39.17 | freem | preseed? no. I've seen mentions of it several times on debian's international mailing list, but never tried it myself |
| 20:39.32 | freem | I never felt I had the level or need to do that |
| 20:39.35 | gnarface | it might do what you want without having to modify the installer |
| 20:39.49 | gnarface | it essentially allows hands-off installs |
| 20:41.27 | fsmithred | a good way to go if you're installing a bunch of machines |
| 20:42.00 | freem | sure... but the longer part for me after installation is verifying that nothing useless is installed, and won't. |
| 20:43.01 | freem | basically, a default deBian installation will install wamerican whatever the language, for example. It's one useless package between at least a hundred (100+) |
| 20:43.41 | fsmithred | just install the base system, then write a script to install exactly what you want. (or sit there and do it.) |
| 20:44.01 | fsmithred | brb |
| 20:45.29 | gnarface | freem: you can make it not do that. try expert mode |
| 20:45.35 | freem | that's my point, I would like an installer to only install what is necessary to use the system, which is more than debootstrap, but far less than debian installer, and that this then would allow selecting pacakges, and not tasks. |
| 20:45.46 | freem | I always use expert mode. |
| 20:45.53 | gnarface | oh |
| 20:46.47 | *** join/#devuan marulo (~Marulo@host5.190-230-100.telecom.net.ar) |
| 20:47.29 | gnarface | well it sounds to me like you just want a minimal install with a couple extra packages added |
| 20:47.39 | gnarface | it doesn't sound like you need to modify the installer for that |
| 20:48.01 | gnarface | the real installer, anyway. the livecd won't do it. |
| 20:48.36 | fsmithred | when you get to the tasksel window, uncheck everything except Standard system utilities |
| 20:48.49 | fsmithred | then add whatever you want after the install is done. |
| 20:48.52 | freem | the Debian (I insist on this, Debian) installer installs tons of crap. Even in minimal installation. |
| 20:49.31 | freem | I never installed devuan from a live, I used debootstrap. |
| 20:50.18 | gnarface | well "tons" implies a situation none of us can really recreate |
| 20:50.22 | gnarface | though it's a highly subjective word |
| 20:50.24 | fsmithred | if you install from the live, you get some metapackages that pull in lots of stuff you probably don't need. |
| 20:50.45 | fsmithred | same as if you leave the desktop tasks checked in tasksel |
| 20:51.28 | fsmithred | I've got lists of what packages get installed with each level of tasks |
| 20:52.18 | *** join/#devuan mn3m (~mn3m@unaffiliated/mn3m) |
| 20:52.46 | *** join/#devuan athidhep (~eafaef@unaffiliated/athidhep) |
| 20:53.40 | fsmithred | there are some esoteric aptitude commands for generating some of those lists. |
| 20:53.45 | fsmithred | if I can find them... |
| 20:54.12 | fsmithred | aptitude search ~pstandard |
| 20:54.21 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin_ (~sonnixin@41.35.61.221) |
| 20:54.23 | freem | gnarface: you are true, it's subjective, but things like wamerican for a french install, really? |
| 20:55.16 | freem | anyway, I'll try to help the translations, and if I can help fix those stuff without breaking the most used, then I'll try |
| 20:55.27 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 20:55.36 | fsmithred | aptitude search ~prequired |
| 20:55.44 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-39-116.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:56.52 | golinux | Yeah this conversation has not much to do with devuan and bloats the logs. |
| 20:56.54 | freem | you should not thanks before I do anything. |
| 20:57.09 | freem | I apologize. |
| 20:57.30 | fsmithred | I thought we were talking about installing devuan |
| 20:57.54 | golinux | Lots of talk about arm stuff and not much about devuan |
| 20:58.36 | freem | arm stability stuff. |
| 20:58.53 | freem | which might depends on kernel patches. |
| 21:01.14 | fsmithred | time for a nap. see you later. |
| 21:02.43 | *** join/#devuan underd0g (~underd0g@m83-184-5-207.cust.tele2.hr) |
| 21:04.31 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:04.48 | freem | sorry... ran out of power |
| 21:05.27 | freem | I still have some scripting to do on that computer :/ |
| 21:11.26 | *** join/#devuan freem_ (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:12.13 | *** part/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:12.43 | *** part/#devuan freem_ (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:13.16 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@arl95-h05-176-132-84-123.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:16.58 | underd0g | man I can't get oracle java to work on devuan |
| 21:17.32 | freem | underd0g: what is the error message? |
| 21:17.42 | underd0g | hu |
| 21:17.53 | underd0g | I installed it |
| 21:18.11 | underd0g | but I couldn't get it to work |
| 21:18.15 | underd0g | wait |
| 21:19.27 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-36-112.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 21:20.21 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 21:23.33 | *** join/#devuan Kruppt (~Kirk_Krup@50.111.28.169) |
| 21:25.22 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 21:32.53 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 21:33.38 | *** join/#devuan thrasymachus (~thrasymac@c-24-17-18-14.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:52.06 | gnarface | underd0g: i think usually you just need to manually change the java path environment variable. i forget what it's called. |
| 21:52.58 | freem | jre? |
| 21:53.40 | freem | oh, $(find /usr -name '*jre*') |
| 22:08.32 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.248.40.235) |
| 22:12.59 | *** join/#devuan TheOuterLinux (~TheOuterL@185.108.219.71) |
| 22:18.45 | *** join/#devuan margeas (~marco@96.44.147.106) |
| 22:35.02 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@200.95.170.197) |
| 22:35.22 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 22:44.35 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 23:02.00 | *** join/#devuan margeas (~marco@96.44.144.114) |
| 23:03.08 | *** join/#devuan Lieke (~lieke@85.17.167.217) |
| 23:09.31 | *** join/#devuan DingoSaar (~hagen@pD9E093FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:17.07 | *** join/#devuan margeas (~marco@199.21.149.141) |
| 23:20.18 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@211.114.220.111.sta.wbroadband.net.au) |
| 23:48.48 | *** join/#devuan Hurgotron (~Hurgotron@kabelmarder.de) |
| 23:54.07 | Hurgotron | fsmithred, gnarface: Just FYI, I did manage a cross-distro upgrade from Ubuntu 12.04 to Devuan over the net. It was ugly as hell, but worked. (Still just a test, though) |
| 23:54.47 | gnarface | cool |
| 23:54.53 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.42.17) |
| 23:55.16 | Hurgotron | If anyone wants to try similar insanity, this link might help: https://askubuntu.com/questions/266450/how-to-fix-e-internal-error-no-file-name-for-libc6 |
| 23:56.32 | Hurgotron | Basically he repeated dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb and dpkg --configure -a (with a bit of --force in between) managed to do it. |
