| 00:22.50 | *** part/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 00:53.21 | *** join/#devuan theLambda (~theLambda@mue-88-130-62-099.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 01:02.17 | *** join/#devuan amphi (~amphi@unaffiliated/amphi) |
| 01:24.45 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p200300C90BC42E00A0674E1A6C3262D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:01.02 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@p4FD0344F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:02.25 | *** join/#devuan chillfan (~mint@185.41.242.68) |
| 02:04.03 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 02:32.14 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 02:41.41 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 03:17.05 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 03:17.51 | *** join/#devuan Artemis3 (~artemis3@190.213.203.75) |
| 03:25.26 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b8641f1e00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 03:29.47 | *** part/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b8641f1e00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 03:31.36 | Xenguy | I don't know why you say goodbye I say hello |
| 03:32.50 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 03:38.59 | fromport | tb ;-) |
| 03:45.09 | Xenguy | bingo |
| 03:45.16 | Xenguy | said ringo |
| 04:04.48 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.58.43.214) |
| 04:29.05 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 04:35.25 | *** join/#devuan tonyoy_ (~tonyoy@cor13-3-88-164-147-63.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 04:48.21 | *** join/#devuan knop_ (~andreas@p5B0A10ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:01.57 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 05:45.22 | *** join/#devuan p4cman (uid171740@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tqjsmemjwvtnulaq) |
| 05:47.07 | TheTrueHooha | I get a 404 error in apt |
| 05:47.18 | TheTrueHooha | Numerous packages fail to download |
| 05:47.19 | TheTrueHooha | Example |
| 05:47.21 | TheTrueHooha | E: Failed to fetch tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged/pool/DEBIAN-SECURITY/updates/main/m/mysql-5.5/libmysqlclient18_5.5.58-0+deb8u1_amd64.deb HttpError404 |
| 05:53.36 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@89-76-224-228.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 06:06.22 | *** join/#devuan scartozzo (~flavio@2-238-140-4.ip244.fastwebnet.it) |
| 06:27.10 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 06:27.16 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-lqiwkquxxxotdwwj) |
| 06:36.15 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 06:36.25 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 06:40.05 | *** join/#devuan fr33domlover1 (~fr33domlo@fsf/member/fr33domlover) |
| 06:40.33 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.248.40.235) |
| 06:50.38 | *** join/#devuan freedomrun (~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun) |
| 07:02.52 | *** join/#devuan reetspetit (~john@239.red-80-59-216.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:06.09 | *** join/#devuan reetp_x5 (~john@194.149.220.77) |
| 07:16.05 | *** part/#devuan chillfan (~mint@185.41.242.68) |
| 07:16.07 | *** join/#devuan reetp_x5 (~john@239.red-80-59-216.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:23.37 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:23.55 | *** part/#devuan fr33domlover (~fr33domlo@fsf/member/fr33domlover) |
| 07:31.51 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-10.home.otenet.gr) |
| 07:35.09 | *** join/#devuan margeas (~marco@199.21.149.94) |
| 07:40.44 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 07:58.10 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-nolzxszerlrvbatf) |
| 08:01.30 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-mflgxqrrdbpeslwt) |
| 08:09.06 | *** join/#devuan eliasr (uid27497@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eumibjnafqpkctac) |
| 08:15.42 | *** join/#devuan nmollerup (~nmo@91.214.20.132) |
| 08:18.24 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101) |
| 08:24.00 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 08:41.44 | *** join/#devuan p4cman (uid171740@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-isuykpqvygdherqx) |
| 08:42.55 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 08:44.15 | *** join/#devuan reetspetit (~john@194.149.220.77) |
| 08:50.59 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 08:54.56 | *** join/#devuan lupin3rd (~lupin3rd@host98-31-static.47-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:58.03 | lupin3rd | Hi. can anyone tell e if exist a devuan ascii iso?? i would install devuan testing... |
| 08:59.15 | KatolaZ | lupin3rd: there is no ascii iso, since ascii has not been released |
| 08:59.27 | *** join/#devuan theLambda (~theLambda@mue-88-130-62-099.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 08:59.54 | KatolaZ | you should be able to install ascii using the standard jessie installer, expert install, selecting "ascii" as a release |
| 09:00.01 | KatolaZ | but that's currently untested |
| 09:00.08 | KatolaZ | (well, we are testing it now) |
| 09:00.19 | KatolaZ | so if you want to help, you are welcome |
| 09:00.21 | KatolaZ | otherwise |
| 09:00.25 | lupin3rd | no alpha or beta iso :( |
| 09:00.26 | KatolaZ | just upgrade from devuan jessie |
| 09:00.34 | KatolaZ | not yet, lupin3rd |
| 09:00.45 | KatolaZ | if you want you can upgrade from devuan jessie |
| 09:00.58 | KatolaZ | but still, ascii has not been released |
| 09:00.59 | lupin3rd | ah ok, dist upgrade |
| 09:01.04 | KatolaZ | yes |
| 09:01.28 | KatolaZ | you might experience glitches |
| 09:01.38 | KatolaZ | but many people are on ascii now |
| 09:01.49 | KatolaZ | (and many servers) |
| 09:03.09 | *** join/#devuan reetspetit (~john@239.red-80-59-216.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:03.57 | lupin3rd | thank you for the infos |
| 09:04.10 | KatolaZ | np |
| 09:04.43 | lupin3rd | do you know when ascii will be released? probably in the first half of 2018? |
| 09:10.15 | *** join/#devuan sardonico (~ale@217-133-28-65.static.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 09:17.14 | *** join/#devuan blap (~blap@p54BEF68E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:27.07 | KatolaZ | lupin3rd: ascii will be released when it's ready |
| 09:39.30 | *** join/#devuan Demosthenex (~Demosthen@dhcp-077-248-042-162.chello.nl) |
| 09:41.10 | Demosthenex | wow, i'm impressed with the 1.0 LTS release! i read the page but i didn't see how long LTS meant. i'm looking to upgrade my ubuntu 10 fileserver with devuan because i don't want systemd, or the overhead of setting up gentoo ;] anyone else using ZFS on devuan? |
| 09:48.31 | *** part/#devuan blap (~blap@p54BEF68E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:57.44 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 10:05.07 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.248.40.235) |
| 10:07.23 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@ppp118-210-160-187.bras2.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 10:22.41 | *** join/#devuan lupin3rd (~lupin3rd@host98-31-static.47-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:24.16 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-38-142.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 11:18.58 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 11:27.21 | *** join/#devuan romo (~romo@unaffiliated/romo) |
| 11:28.32 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-38-142.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 11:30.35 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 11:38.01 | fsmithred | I did a jessie netinstall, full desktop yesterday, upgraded to ascii, and I did not have to attend to any problems or errors. It went very smoothly. |
| 11:38.49 | Demosthenex | nice. |
| 11:38.57 | fsmithred | I used the pkgmaster repo for ascii |
| 11:40.12 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: it should be possible to install ascii from the jessie installer then |
| 11:40.26 | KatolaZ | I mean the classical debian-installer |
| 11:40.42 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, I didn't see that choice, and I used expert install |
| 11:40.56 | fsmithred | I do recall seeing that choice in one of the beta installers |
| 11:41.11 | KatolaZ | you are asked to select which release you want to install |
| 11:41.23 | KatolaZ | I am pretty sure it was there |
| 11:41.25 | fsmithred | I remember that, but that was a long time ago |
| 11:41.45 | fsmithred | is it only in the netinstall iso? I used the dvd iso. |
| 11:41.59 | KatolaZ | maybe is only the netinstall iso, yes |
| 11:42.17 | fsmithred | (actually, I just downloaded a netinstall iso to check that) |
| 11:42.33 | KatolaZ | great |
| 11:42.48 | KatolaZ | and I used text-based install |
| 11:42.56 | KatolaZ | dunno if it makes any difference (it shouldn't) |
| 11:43.04 | fsmithred | the other thing I did not see was a place to enter a custom mirror |
| 11:43.20 | fsmithred | me too. I hate the graphical installer. It's harder to use. |
| 11:43.28 | KatolaZ | should be the last entry in the mirror list |
| 11:43.33 | KatolaZ | we need to work at that though |
| 11:43.48 | fsmithred | I had a list of two: us.mirror and auto.mirror |
| 11:43.59 | KatolaZ | mmmhhh |
| 11:44.18 | KatolaZ | we should check all those then |
| 11:44.51 | KatolaZ | but it's great that the full jessie desktop upgrades without major problems |
| 11:44.57 | KatolaZ | at least the default install |
| 11:44.57 | KatolaZ | L) |
| 11:44.59 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 11:45.26 | fsmithred | yes, it went better than when I upgraded refracta a few months ago |
| 11:45.47 | fsmithred | synaptic-pkexec works from menu |
| 11:45.59 | fsmithred | no problems with mounting removable drives |
| 11:46.19 | fsmithred | suspend works |
| 11:46.36 | fsmithred | (from menu, not from lid) |
| 11:47.15 | KatolaZ | great |
| 11:47.19 | fsmithred | booting netinstall iso now |
| 11:47.20 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 11:50.49 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 12:10.25 | fsmithred | ok, when you get to select the country for the mirror, you can scroll up to the top of the list to find "enter information manually" |
| 12:12.17 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 12:12.29 | KatolaZ | don't remember if it's top or bottom |
| 12:12.32 | KatolaZ | but it should be there |
| 12:12.55 | fsmithred | I entered pkgmaster.devuan.org, then next question (directory) changed it to merged |
| 12:13.24 | fsmithred | I need to go back and check whether it said /devuan/ or /debian/ to start with |
| 12:13.44 | KatolaZ | no fsmithred |
| 12:13.49 | KatolaZ | you should use /merged |
| 12:13.55 | fsmithred | yes |
| 12:13.57 | KatolaZ | not /devuan |
| 12:14.03 | KatolaZ | oh |
| 12:14.04 | fsmithred | but what did it say before I changed it to merged? |
| 12:14.04 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 12:14.07 | KatolaZ | I see now |
| 12:14.07 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 12:14.08 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 12:14.09 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 12:14.12 | KatolaZ | silly me |
| 12:14.21 | fsmithred | going back doesn't help - it says pkgmaster... |
| 12:15.37 | fsmithred | it asks if I want non-free, contrib and deb-src |
| 12:16.08 | fsmithred | then asks if I want -security, -updates and -backports |
| 12:16.44 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 12:16.48 | KatolaZ | so it's working, right? |
| 12:16.49 | fsmithred | any idea what happens if, instead of putting in /merged/... |
| 12:16.57 | fsmithred | I put in /merged/ ascii |
| 12:17.00 | fsmithred | ? |
| 12:17.06 | fsmithred | yeah, it's working fine |
| 12:17.18 | KatolaZ | in the latter case it should not work, I guess |
| 12:17.32 | fsmithred | yeah, that makes sense |
| 12:17.39 | Ryushin | Does the merged mirror support sloppy backports? apt-get shows that it is not found. |
| 12:17.44 | fsmithred | I'd be giving it unexpected inpurt |
| 12:18.03 | fsmithred | I forget what sloppy backports means |
| 12:18.14 | fsmithred | haven't seen that term in a long time |
| 12:18.22 | Ryushin | https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/#index4h2 |
| 12:18.40 | Ryushin | Essentially, newer zfs releases will be put into jessie sloppy backports. |
| 12:19.23 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@ppp118-210-160-187.bras2.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 12:19.25 | Ryushin | Sloppy I guess is using packages that are even further along then next release. |
| 12:19.28 | KatolaZ | Ryushin: there are no sloppy-backports atm |
| 12:19.47 | KatolaZ | and we are not merging them |
| 12:19.50 | KatolaZ | so far |
| 12:20.35 | Ryushin | I guess I can open a wish request for Devuan to package the ZFS packages themselves since Debian really does not care about adding the sysvinit to them anyway. |
| 12:20.48 | fsmithred | OK, I read that description three times, and I finally figured out that it makes no sense |
| 12:21.20 | fsmithred | they call jessie oldstable and stretch testing. So what's between jessie and stretch? |
| 12:21.51 | KatolaZ | Ryushin: there is already a bug report on that |
| 12:22.08 | Ryushin | thinking about an offspring between Jessie and Stretch. |
| 12:22.36 | KatolaZ | http://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=14 |
| 12:22.38 | Ryushin | KatolaZ: Well, I asked for the binary packages, which would be even better. |
| 12:22.57 | KatolaZ | Ryushin: ^^^ |
| 12:23.21 | KatolaZ | Ryushin: there might be a point release for jessie, but not a jessie-ascii frankestein :) |
| 12:24.09 | Ryushin | Have not even looked. Is ascii on the horizon for a release? |
| 12:24.28 | KatolaZ | the thing with zfs is that we (I) would not like to maintain it |
| 12:24.40 | KatolaZ | (I mean, zfs) |
| 12:24.49 | KatolaZ | mainly because I am not a zfs user atm |
| 12:24.53 | fsmithred | any idea where the installer keeps the sources.list during the installation? |
| 12:25.15 | fsmithred | I got to a console, and I'm thinking about editing it before I get to tasksel |
| 12:25.16 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: shoud be in /target/etc/apt/ |
| 12:26.14 | KatolaZ | Ryushin: ? |
| 12:26.20 | KatolaZ | ascii will be released, for sure |
| 12:27.33 | Ryushin | KatolaZ: Understandable. |
| 12:28.04 | Ryushin | I would really like Devuan to maintain it though. Devuan really appeals (at least to me) as a server distribution. |
| 12:28.06 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:28.13 | fsmithred | interesting... tasksel only shows me standard system utilities |
| 12:28.16 | Ryushin | I won't install a Linux system now without ZFS. |
| 12:28.21 | fsmithred | after changing sources to ascii |
| 12:28.34 | KatolaZ | Ryushin: devuan will never release something that it can't maintain for the foreseeable future |
| 12:29.19 | Ryushin | Found out a new command just the other day that ZFS can do. It can give me a diff between snapshots. Great for finding infections or if an employee deleted files before being fired. |
| 12:29.32 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 12:29.47 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: tasksel needs some tweaking in ascii |
| 12:29.56 | fsmithred | yeah, I know |
| 12:30.06 | KatolaZ | but it's great you went that far |
| 12:30.15 | KatolaZ | I would just install grub and reboot |
| 12:30.15 | fsmithred | grub didn't install - not sure why |
| 12:30.17 | Ryushin | KatolaZ: I agree with that. There should be someone that is running ZFS and Devuan that has the time to create and maintain the packages. Do it right, or don't do it at all. |
| 12:30.28 | KatolaZ | yep Ryushin |
| 12:30.32 | KatolaZ | we don't need fixes |
| 12:30.34 | KatolaZ | we need solutions |
| 12:30.37 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.75.30) |
| 12:30.40 | KatolaZ | and dependable ones |
| 12:31.45 | fsmithred | oops - gpg error on apt update (in chroot) |
| 12:31.51 | Ryushin | Considering ZFS is a filesystem, we can't have issues. Already have had to deal with the growing pains of systems that failed boot because the zfs grub settings where not correct or the zfs modules where not in the initramfs. |
| 12:32.29 | Ryushin | In the mean time, I guess I can just download the latest ZFS packages and compile them myself for the older release. |
| 12:34.06 | Ryushin | 0.7.3 zfsonlinux was released and they added dkms for debian. Though it would sure be nice to just have the binary. |
| 12:37.16 | fsmithred | FTR: I went to console, chroot /target, edit sources.list to ascii, update, install devuan-keyring, update, upgrade |
| 12:37.39 | fsmithred | 153 packages upgrading |
| 12:38.13 | KatolaZ | cool |
| 12:38.34 | fsmithred | also commented out cdrom line - that got rid of an error on update |
| 12:38.49 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 12:39.41 | fsmithred | Ryushin, keep good notes in case you get the urge to become the maintainer for zfs in devuan |
| 12:43.01 | Ryushin | fsmithred: Would love to. But being married, running my own business, and building a deck for my wife (after she nearly died four times last year) gives me next to no free time. Especially not to do something that others are depending on so very much such as a filesystem. |
| 12:43.04 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 12:43.58 | Ryushin | The sysvinit patch patches cleanly against 0.6.5.11 |
| 12:48.51 | *** join/#devuan sedrosken (~sedrosken@static-204-62-58-150.ptr.shelbybb.com) |
| 12:52.02 | fsmithred | FTR: still in chroot, apt upgrade finished, apt install grub-pc worked, then it did its own grub-install, I told it /dev/sda, it complained 'device node not found' and 'try mounting /sys', so I exited chroot, bind-mounted /sys, went back into chroot, grub-install and update-grub succeeded. |
| 12:52.32 | fsmithred | exit chroot, returned to installer, and it insists that I need to install bootloader. |
| 12:52.53 | fsmithred | so I'm letting do its thing |
| 12:55.27 | *** join/#devuan Maarten (~smuxi@185.47.133.96) |
| 12:55.28 | fsmithred | weird - it asked me about EFI removable media path - I said No |
| 12:55.46 | fsmithred | this VM is not set to use EFI |
| 12:56.50 | fsmithred | it rebooted to a login screen - success! |
| 13:00.11 | KatolaZ | yay! |
| 13:00.15 | KatolaZ | well done fsmithred |
| 13:00.26 | fsmithred | doing a dist-upgrade now to get 4.9 kernel |
| 13:00.30 | KatolaZ | I wonder whether the manual tweaking with /target was really necessary |
| 13:00.35 | KatolaZ | but that's great news |
| 13:00.50 | fsmithred | what other way to change the sources? |
| 13:00.57 | KatolaZ | do you need to do that? |
| 13:00.59 | *** join/#devuan OxFEEDBACC (~what@unaffiliated/oxfeedbacc) |
| 13:00.59 | KatolaZ | I mean |
| 13:01.04 | KatolaZ | if you put a custom mirror |
| 13:01.09 | KatolaZ | it should do its thing |
| 13:01.12 | KatolaZ | and use it |
| 13:01.22 | fsmithred | yes, I would have gotten jessie from pkgmaster |
| 13:01.30 | fsmithred | it didn't give me a choice of releases |
| 13:01.34 | KatolaZ | because ascii was not available? |
| 13:01.36 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 13:01.37 | KatolaZ | fine |
| 13:01.55 | KatolaZ | we need to fix that then |
| 13:01.58 | fsmithred | somewhere in the d-i code is a piece that asks that question, but it's gone or disabled |
| 13:02.04 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 13:02.21 | KatolaZ | and is replaced with a hardcoded "jessie" |
| 13:02.22 | fsmithred | only time I ever saw that was with devuan beta - never saw it in debian - but it's a nice feature |
| 13:02.33 | KatolaZ | it is good for testing indeed |
| 13:02.42 | KatolaZ | and I guess it's still in mini.iso |
| 13:02.54 | fsmithred | oh, maybe |
| 13:03.10 | KatolaZ | anyway, the important thing is that it works now |
| 13:03.17 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 13:05.11 | fsmithred | I guess we already know about some of these ID files need fixing - os-release, devuan_version |
| 13:09.34 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 13:09.36 | *** join/#devuan godbed (~Wowbagger@HSI-KBW-078-042-157-153.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 13:10.01 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-225.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:12.48 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.248.40.235) |
| 13:20.11 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 13:29.21 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-17.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 13:30.06 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.182) |
| 13:30.18 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 13:45.09 | *** join/#devuan Kruppt (~Kirk_Krup@50.111.28.169) |
| 13:48.23 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 13:51.11 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 13:57.09 | *** join/#devuan thaller_ (thaller@nat/redhat/x-eubzsqfitjupocai) |
| 14:03.21 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 14:05.59 | *** part/#devuan sardonico (~ale@217-133-28-65.static.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 14:08.08 | *** join/#devuan ferdy- (~ferdy@funtoo/contrib/ferdy-) |
| 14:10.23 | *** join/#devuan blinkdog (~blinkdog@wipac-user-nat.icecube.wisc.edu) |
| 14:16.45 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-etpavwmdonqwiyse) |
| 14:17.38 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-wpiunuzekpauosyb) |
| 14:17.50 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.111.140) |
| 14:29.52 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 14:35.29 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-63-159.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 14:44.44 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-17.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 14:49.29 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 14:51.12 | *** join/#devuan koma (~koma@unaffiliated/koma) |
| 14:54.22 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 15:00.05 | AlexLikeRock | hi |
| 15:00.34 | AlexLikeRock | are empy ! /etc/initramfs-tools/modules |
| 15:01.33 | AlexLikeRock | how to install dm-crypt , or cryptsetup ? |
| 15:01.54 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-ahttgxzlesrwiobq) |
| 15:10.54 | *** join/#devuan rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) |
| 15:12.46 | *** join/#devuan [0__0] (~0__0]@ec2-54-85-45-223.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
| 15:15.40 | *** join/#devuan rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) |
| 15:16.12 | Demosthenex | so, i'm looking to replace ubuntu 10 on my fileserver. i need samba, backups, and java. looking at using openzfs. is devuan 1.0.0 lts a good choice? ;] |
| 15:18.22 | telst4r | I'm not aware of openzfs, but I run devuan on two nas'es and they work nice. |
| 15:19.08 | djph | sure, for everything except zfs (mostly because IDK about zfs any to talk about it) |
| 15:19.21 | Demosthenex | raid isn't good enough. zfs looks nice. |
| 15:19.25 | djph | have two hardware servers, plus one of them's running 5 or 6 VMs |
| 15:19.27 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-46-244.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 15:19.34 | Demosthenex | you can run zfs for data on ubuntu and debian, so i assume i could here |
| 15:19.55 | Demosthenex | i have been maintaining a 5 disk raid6 array on this server for 5 years. i hate it. |
| 15:20.03 | Demosthenex | linux raid can DIAF |
| 15:20.31 | Demosthenex | its not really the raid's fault, it's the toolchain, the flakey hardware detection, etc. you know, linux :P |
| 15:20.53 | Demosthenex | but to protect against bitrot, and disks dying, zfs sounds great |
| 15:21.10 | djph | I find it quit... ohh, you're talking mdadm or whatever software raid |
| 15:21.37 | Demosthenex | yes, soft raid. and again, the actual raid logic was fine, everything else sucked. |
| 15:21.38 | fsmithred | Demosthenex, there's a debian bug report about zfs - I think it doesn't work |
| 15:21.55 | Demosthenex | smartctl and SMART for diskdying detection can also DIAF. |
| 15:23.31 | Demosthenex | https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/wiki/Debian and i don't intend to boot from zfs, only data. i'll make a 3-4 disk raid1 and boot from that |
| 15:25.26 | *** join/#devuan rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) |
| 15:27.03 | Demosthenex | i'm also competent to compile the drivers and patch the kernel. i guess i was asking if anyone else tried zfs on devuan |
| 15:27.29 | fsmithred | I think you're the third one to come here and ask about it |
| 15:27.45 | fsmithred | maybe check the scrollback and figure out who it was, and you can put your heads together |
| 15:28.15 | fsmithred | https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=zfs |
| 15:29.21 | zyliwax | i heard that you should use ECC RAM with ZFS because a flipped bit will kill the entire filesystem, true/false? |
| 15:29.44 | *** join/#devuan thaller (thaller@nat/redhat/x-vdbqmpmabuhiupwl) |
| 15:42.07 | *** join/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 15:44.10 | Demosthenex | zyliwax: i think that's an old myth... but i have ecc ram |
| 15:48.21 | *** join/#devuan fr33domlover (~fr33domlo@fsf/member/fr33domlover) |
| 15:48.39 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.56.39.53) |
| 15:59.05 | *** join/#devuan W_T (~wojciech@37-128-72-213.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 16:00.58 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 16:02.25 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 16:07.47 | *** join/#devuan p4cman (uid171740@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kxwwziwrrlzcrumy) |
| 16:09.25 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-63-159.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 16:12.26 | *** join/#devuan fromport (~fromport@caretaker.het.net) |
| 16:19.16 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 16:20.15 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 16:24.15 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-36-21.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 16:39.43 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 16:39.57 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@2a02:8070:4182:a200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d) |
| 16:42.57 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-bcee92-142.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:48.31 | *** join/#devuan targz (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/targz) |
| 16:59.09 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 16:59.29 | Demosthenex | zyliwax: also, any filesystem has that issue right? you have to be able to trust your data to transit memory before it's written to disk... and if its corrupted there, corrupt data goes to the disk. i like that zfs is supposed to checksum everything it writes, and then checks routinely for bitrot. good for archival |
| 16:59.32 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 17:02.15 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b8641f1e00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 17:12.38 | *** part/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b8641f1e00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 17:21.15 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@5.146.73.225) |
| 17:24.20 | zyliwax | Demosthenex: yeah that's a fair point -- although your specific example could implicate other parts of the system like the mem<>disk traces, fs code could be buggy too. i've never really gotten into zfs (i mostly use btrfs which does checksumming too) but it does sound nifty for certain applications if you have the resources |
| 17:25.36 | Demosthenex | wasn't btrfs just deprecated? |
| 17:26.26 | Demosthenex | https://lwn.net/Articles/729488/ |
| 17:26.30 | Demosthenex | yep, it was. at redhat at least |
| 17:26.38 | Demosthenex | where zfs's been around 10 years |
| 17:26.50 | koollman | zyliwax: false. as in 'you should use ecc if you care a lot about your data', which is not specific to zfs |
| 17:27.32 | koollman | zyliwax: but memory corruption is not specifically more ugly on zfs. it would break any fs in many cases |
| 17:27.53 | Demosthenex | koollman: he was referring to some ML postings where the ECC recommendation because a FUD item |
| 17:27.58 | koollman | I know |
| 17:28.02 | Demosthenex | righto |
| 17:28.32 | Demosthenex | so i'm grateful to see devuan has come a ways to have an LTS. i'm seriously considering it =] |
| 17:30.11 | koollman | zyliwax: http://jrs-s.net/2015/02/03/will-zfs-and-non-ecc-ram-kill-your-data/ for the long version (but basically 'ecc not required') |
| 17:32.36 | *** join/#devuan rsx (~rsx@ppp-46-244-247-134.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:36.51 | zyliwax | koollman: yes ecc ram seems like a good idea in any case -- if zfs did in fact have this fatal flaw, i would want to ensure i don't lose my fs to it (saying this as someone who would like to know zfs better) |
| 17:36.58 | zyliwax | koollman: reading over your link now |
| 17:42.40 | Demosthenex | zyliwax: the point is you'd lose any FS to bad ram |
| 17:46.27 | zyliwax | koollman: that was a great read, thank you |
| 17:47.08 | zyliwax | Demosthenex: yes of course -- i'm glad koollman clarified this point |
| 17:55.31 | Demosthenex | my FS is for home and small biz use, with backups, and archiving (ie: kids pictures). bitrot is a concern. hence zfs |
| 17:55.39 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-36-21.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 18:02.05 | *** join/#devuan JotaMG (~chatozill@5.109.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 18:13.56 | *** join/#devuan milobit (~milobit@unaffiliated/milobit) |
| 18:18.40 | *** join/#devuan ToffeeYogurtPots (~ToffeeYog@gateway/tor-sasl/toffeeyogurtpots) |
| 18:26.14 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@224.99.204.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 18:26.14 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101) |
| 18:28.23 | *** join/#devuan chillfan (~mint@185.41.242.68) |
| 18:30.45 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.248.40.235) |
| 18:32.23 | *** join/#devuan Jjp137 (~Jjp137@cpe-75-83-16-81.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 18:37.54 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-63-42.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 18:48.34 | *** join/#devuan tadau (tadau@unaffiliated/tadau) |
| 18:55.21 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:4c50:4ad:6100:94af:85f6:1009:66ae) |
| 18:56.42 | *** join/#devuan sb35 (~eafaef@67.231.16.203) |
| 19:02.55 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.47.204.162) |
| 19:02.59 | *** join/#devuan kaboutur (~kaboutur@84.241.192.231) |
| 19:03.23 | kaboutur | running devuan, uxterm right now. but copy-paste doesn't work between all applications (mostly to term). any suggestions? |
| 19:04.12 | kaboutur | i'm certain i ran uxterm (i3wm) before, on debian jessie, without problems in copy-pasting from/to terminal (i.e. browser to terminal or vice versa) |
| 19:08.08 | Oldmoss | shift+insert |
| 19:08.10 | phogg | kaboutur: What exactly doesn't work? Are you going from terminal to another program or the other way? If terminal-to-non are using pasting or middle clicking? If non-to-terminal are you copying or just selecting? Which non-terminal program? |
| 19:08.30 | Oldmoss | or click wheel or middle click mouse |
| 19:08.54 | phogg | most importantly what do you get if you do this: xclip -o -selection clipboard vs. xclip -o -selection primary |
| 19:09.26 | kaboutur | phogg: in uxterm/i3wm/devuan both copy and paste don't work. Maybe the term default settings changed somehow |
| 19:09.39 | phogg | ... |
| 19:10.08 | kaboutur | xclip..not found. is that what I'm missing |
| 19:10.30 | *** join/#devuan ChubYann (~ChubYann@LFbn-BOR-1-14-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:10.41 | phogg | kaboutur: no, it's just useful for understanding what's happening |
| 19:10.59 | phogg | kaboutur: I am going to need more information than "Doesn't work." |
| 19:11.24 | kaboutur | phogg: ok, so i installed it. xclip shows actual clipboard data from iceweasel, but term doesn't seem to comprehend copy&paste |
| 19:11.26 | phogg | Like this: "I do X, then I do Y, then I do Z. I expect to see FOO but instead I get BAR." |
| 19:11.28 | kaboutur | so it's an uxterm issue |
| 19:11.38 | sonnixin | hi people , how are you? |
| 19:11.44 | sonnixin | can i ask questions here? |
| 19:11.52 | phogg | kaboutur: shows when -selection is primary or clipboard? |
| 19:12.16 | phogg | sonnixin: you just did |
| 19:12.21 | kaboutur | phogg: clipboard. but primary DOES show term copydata. |
| 19:12.38 | sonnixin | phogg: lol right but seemed better than directly asking |
| 19:12.44 | kaboutur | hmm learned something new today |
| 19:12.50 | phogg | kaboutur: select something in your other program but do not copy it; run xclip -o -selection primary |
| 19:12.58 | phogg | kaboutur: you should see it printed in to the terminal |
| 19:13.41 | phogg | kaboutur: if selecting something in e.g. a GTK program does not overwrite PRIMARY then it's a problem with that program |
| 19:14.03 | sonnixin | phogg: okay is openrc or sysvinit or any other init sys better than systemd in performance? 2: can i use gnu shepherd on devuan? 3: lastly why devaun still uses jessie? |
| 19:14.36 | phogg | sonnixin: Don't ask me, ask the channel. |
| 19:14.40 | kaboutur | phogg: yes, both buffers have contents. so it's a paste problem |
| 19:15.07 | kaboutur | narrowed it down to pasting in uxterm |
| 19:15.08 | phogg | kaboutur: so middle click in uxterm fails to output the contents of PRIMARY? That's terribly weird. |
| 19:15.27 | sonnixin | phogg: right! |
| 19:15.34 | sonnixin | okay is openrc or sysvinit or any other init sys better than systemd in performance? 2: can i use gnu shepherd on devuan? 3: lastly why devaun still uses jessie? |
| 19:15.39 | phogg | kaboutur: can I presume that selecting something in uxterm does cause PRIMARY to get overwritten? |
| 19:15.39 | sonnixin | okay is openrc or sysvinit or any other init sys better than systemd in performance? 2: can i use gnu shepherd on devuan? 3: lastly why devaun still uses jessie? |
| 19:15.44 | phogg | sonnixin: just once is enough |
| 19:15.46 | kaboutur | pasting from term in browser works. sorry for what i've said. but even uxterm copy to uxterm paste doesn't work. |
| 19:16.05 | sonnixin | phogg: thanks for the tip |
| 19:16.16 | kaboutur | phogg: yes. selecting in uxterm overwrites primary. |
| 19:16.38 | phogg | kaboutur: you keep saying copy and paste but is that what you are actually doing? If you are just selecting that is not copying, and middle click is not pasting. |
| 19:17.06 | kaboutur | phogg: I'm used to left and right clicks on debian jessie |
| 19:17.30 | DPA | sonnixin: Which init system is the most efficient depends on the use case. |
| 19:17.42 | phogg | kaboutur: Okay. So it sounds like uxterm is failing to read or write primary. That's quite surprising. |
| 19:17.58 | kaboutur | phogg: a right click in term usually dumps the buffer there. |
| 19:18.27 | phogg | kaboutur: right click? No, it should be middle click (or Shift+Insert) |
| 19:18.36 | kaboutur | ah |
| 19:18.41 | kaboutur | shift+insert works |
| 19:18.51 | phogg | Right click 'pasting' is a putty-ism |
| 19:19.02 | phogg | probably from before it was common to have a middle mouse button on Windows boxen |
| 19:19.02 | kaboutur | so.... now it's my input device. hmm |
| 19:19.22 | gnarface | no, putty isn't that old. the issue is that "chordmiddle" didn't exist. |
| 19:19.31 | gnarface | nobody actually had 3 button mice |
| 19:19.39 | gnarface | (except if you were on a sparc machine) |
| 19:19.51 | phogg | gnarface: interesting |
| 19:20.07 | kaboutur | phogg: thx for the help. i love the keyboard anyway. sticking with shift+insert and getting of yet another worn-in mousehabit ;) |
| 19:20.17 | phogg | except that some of us did have 3 button mice; I had one even on pretty old DOS/Win16 systems |
| 19:20.21 | sonnixin | DPA: i use one web server for file sharing (alt to shareit) rarely actually the rest just a laptop |
| 19:20.46 | MinceR | Mouse Systems mice had them for ages |
| 19:21.07 | gnarface | yea, it just wasn't actually considered standard equipment by pc vendors like it was with unix box vendors |
| 19:21.31 | gnarface | to work around this, linux had that feature to emulate 3 buttons builtin to X, but windows never got it. |
| 19:21.41 | gnarface | so *that's* why putty behaves strangely, probably |
| 19:21.45 | phogg | probably |
| 19:21.56 | phogg | still no excuse for it today |
| 19:22.02 | kaboutur | I always wanted PEBKAC to be the mouse for blaming. |
| 19:24.17 | DPA | sonnixin: In that case, I would argue whatever does the least is the most efficient. I assume everything is more efficient than using systemd in that case. The most efficient would be to not use an init system or something like busybox. But that could become a bit inconvinient. |
| 19:26.02 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@200.52.221.30) |
| 19:26.03 | *** part/#devuan kaboutur (~kaboutur@84.241.192.231) |
| 19:27.19 | DPA | But I recommend just using the first thing that works relayably. That's why I still use sysvinit. |
| 19:27.50 | sonnixin | DPA: of course that is right what uses the least is better, but if it's auto config as well it's great (i have been arch user and configuring manually is as painful as removing the whole system after lots of packages and use) so i am here to know what will i pay for not using sytemd and i am very willingly want to do that |
| 19:27.51 | phogg | in that case https://gist.github.com/rofl0r/6168719 is the most efficient possible init other than "none" |
| 19:28.39 | sonnixin | DPA: sysvinit is said doesn't have parallel servicce loading |
| 19:29.07 | sonnixin | phogg: i feel a little fun of it, i would prefer init=/bin/zsh |
| 19:31.39 | sonnixin | also if someone is to how systemd may restrict computing freedom or sth i would totally like to hear |
| 19:32.42 | DPA | sonnixin: Openrc does support sysv-rc scripts and parallel service loading. Most packages have sysvinit scripts, so there usually wouldn't be any additional work necessary there. |
| 19:33.10 | gnarface | sonnixin: wait, that's false, and one of the most annoyingly-so canards from the systemd camp. sysvinit in debian HAS HAD PARALLEL SERVICE LOADING SINCE BEFORE WHEEZY |
| 19:33.39 | phogg | most people never looked in to it |
| 19:33.41 | gnarface | sonnixin: the whole entire stack of arguments they've told you is based on lies, outdated half-truths, and outright fantasy |
| 19:34.00 | sonnixin | DPA, gnarface: gentoo wiki said that sorry my bad |
| 19:34.09 | gnarface | sonnixin: well fuck them too then. |
| 19:34.16 | gnarface | i'm sick of all the lies. |
| 19:34.25 | phogg | sonnixin: Link? |
| 19:34.28 | sonnixin | and i am here because i feeled lots of not convined at all so i am all up to switch |
| 19:34.38 | sonnixin | gnarface: well totally fair l0l |
| 19:34.44 | *** join/#devuan KnoP (~andreas@p5B0A10ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:35.17 | sonnixin | sorry i missed really a fault |
| 19:35.20 | sonnixin | Cross-service dependencies/events No |
| 19:35.25 | sonnixin | that is what they said |
| 19:35.30 | sonnixin | https://www.linuxsecrets.com/gentoo-wiki/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems.html |
| 19:35.50 | sonnixin | under it was the parallel i missed |
| 19:35.54 | sonnixin | sorry anyway |
| 19:36.30 | sonnixin | i want to migrate so is it okay if i installed sysvinit-core and followed without-systemd.org guide |
| 19:36.37 | sonnixin | also is upstart good |
| 19:36.39 | sonnixin | ? |
| 19:36.43 | gnarface | well it has dependency-based booting too, the thing nobody liked about it is the syntax (LSB headers apparently too confusing for anyone to actually understand. how this is possible when the functionality was transparently obvious to me still escapes my understanding though) |
| 19:36.47 | phogg | sonnixin: sure looks like that says sysvinit parallel startup: Yes |
| 19:37.25 | gnarface | no, upstart is NOT good. even canonical knows it now. |
| 19:37.25 | sonnixin | phogg: it's under it!, and i am searching like 100 tab for different things okay |
| 19:37.49 | sonnixin | gnarface: you mean because they abandoned it? |
| 19:38.00 | DPA | sonnixin: the bennefit of the init program phogg linked compared to using a shell as init is that it correctly waits for daemonized processes. Thats necessary to prevent zombi processes. |
| 19:39.08 | sonnixin | DPA: so it wasn't a joke, i didn't read the code but really thought it was a joke sorry |
| 19:39.09 | gnarface | sonnixin: upstart was never good and that was my opinion of it based on seeing it used in production, compared to sysvinit. but yes, the fact canonical abandoned it is evidence they only created it in the first place to suit a certain strategic purpose that systemd also must seem to serve |
| 19:40.05 | phogg | I don't joke about pid 1. |
| 19:41.41 | phogg | the advantage of upstart over systemd is that upstart was a actually sysvinit with stuff on top, so if you wanted to you could just ignore the extra features and still have sysvinit. |
| 19:42.00 | sonnixin | so i will switch now to sysvinit, openrc is under BSD (i hate that) systemd is damn for many reasons here too, (upstart actually isn't okay) and the rest isn't actually reliable (even GuixSD GNU shepherd) i would like to use sysvinit or GNU Shepherd, and shepherd isn't active developement so i want to use now sysvinit is it better to migrate from current debian or do i have reinstall a devaun? |
| 19:42.12 | phogg | the negative part being that "It's just sysvinit" isn't really a good reason to use it instead of sysvinit. |
| 19:43.07 | sonnixin | phogg: l0000000000000l right! |
| 19:43.45 | sonnixin | actually i think ubuntu just want to make things easier for beginners l0l who beginner uses linux anyway |
| 19:43.46 | golinux | <sonnixin> also if someone is to how systemd may restrict computing freedom or sth i would totally like to hear |
| 19:43.56 | fsmithred | sonnixin, you can migrate from debian wheezy or jessie to devuan jessie |
| 19:44.13 | golinux | That conversation should be on #debianfork not on this channel |
| 19:44.20 | sonnixin | golinux: actually i thnik of it as dominance and control over your own machine! |
| 19:44.21 | gnarface | sonnixin: you should be able to upgrade from debian cleanly, in many situations. you may find some stuff you've currently got installed (like gnome) is problematic though |
| 19:44.26 | golinux | is still catching up |
| 19:44.32 | sonnixin | fsmithred: sid |
| 19:44.53 | sonnixin | golinux: sorry didnt know |
| 19:44.55 | fsmithred | sure, just don't do another upgrade this year, then migrate to ascii |
| 19:45.02 | fsmithred | wait until your sid is old |
| 19:45.05 | fsmithred | so... |
| 19:45.13 | fsmithred | you'll need a fresh install, really |
| 19:45.25 | sonnixin | gnarface: is there a way around that? |
| 19:45.33 | gnarface | sonnixin: yea, don't use gnome |
| 19:45.40 | fsmithred | lol, beat me to it |
| 19:45.52 | gnarface | sonnixin: (someone made some alternative package of cinnamon i think you can use instead) |
| 19:46.00 | DPA | Systemd restricts freesom of choice by doing many unrelated things and causing other software to depend on it. |
| 19:46.07 | DPA | *freedom |
| 19:46.08 | sonnixin | fsmithred: can i just install sysvinit-core package and follow without-systemd guidelines for that time? |
| 19:46.20 | fsmithred | yes, Antofox's cinnamon should be migrating into repos |
| 19:46.22 | gnarface | sonnixin: basically a few programs have chosen to deeply integrate systemd into core functionality, and the only solution for them is to just use one of the sterilized alternative forks |
| 19:46.35 | sonnixin | DPA: i totally agree on that point |
| 19:46.40 | fsmithred | sonnixin, is it still possible to run sysvinit in sid? |
| 19:47.55 | sonnixin | gnarface: look i have been manually installing and configuring on my own, so if i can connect systemd things to sysvinit is that possible? |
| 19:48.17 | sonnixin | fsmithred: i din't try but they said so (without-systemd.org |
| 19:48.52 | sonnixin | and actually i would use arch openrc with latest packages so why isn't that possibe with devaun? |
| 19:49.17 | fsmithred | ok, you can probably migrate to devuan later on - to beowulf or ceres |
| 19:49.29 | golinux | sonnixin: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ |
| 19:49.44 | fsmithred | I don't know if such things will be officially supported |
| 19:50.14 | fsmithred | right now, I don't even know if stretch to ascii works |
| 19:50.24 | sonnixin | no it's okay arch doesn't seem to officially support anything but actually the only thing is pacman sucks |
| 19:51.07 | DPA | The file manager or the game? |
| 19:51.32 | sonnixin | fsmithred: are they avail now but like experimental or sth? |
| 19:51.43 | fsmithred | DPA, pretty sure he means the package manager - the game is awesome |
| 19:51.55 | gnarface | sonnixin: yes, with a lot of the packages all that is required is that you rebuild them --without-systemd |
| 19:51.59 | sonnixin | DPA: the *package* *Downlaoder* |
| 19:52.06 | fsmithred | there are no ascii isos available yet, but there will be soon |
| 19:52.46 | sonnixin | so are the packages latest or like jessie? |
| 19:52.47 | DPA | Oh, I confused it with pcmanfm |
| 19:52.57 | gnarface | sonnixin: most the software existed well before systemd and (i hope) will still exist long after it. gnome is a good example of a project that may not survive this though... |
| 19:52.58 | sonnixin | DPA: nprblm |
| 19:53.06 | fsmithred | devuan jessie = debian jessie |
| 19:53.20 | fsmithred | ascii = stretch, beowulf (not born yet) = buster |
| 19:53.25 | fsmithred | ceres = sid |
| 19:53.29 | sonnixin | how a gnu software is thight to systemd like that! |
| 19:53.35 | sonnixin | fsmithred: oh i read that |
| 19:53.54 | sonnixin | okay i will see, so how can i help devaun? |
| 19:54.02 | sonnixin | *devuan |
| 19:54.20 | fsmithred | know anything about packaging? |
| 19:54.29 | fsmithred | we need maintainers |
| 19:54.57 | golinux | Indeed we do |
| 19:55.09 | gnarface | sonnixin: all that rebuilding "--without-systemd" still is constantly ongoing. (and it's not always that easy) |
| 19:55.11 | fsmithred | but that's only one way - there are more ways listed at devuan.org |
| 19:55.17 | sonnixin | fsmithred: i have been holding three repos (Arch, BlackArch, Arch Strike) which doesn't support each other have many confilicts together for like 3 years |
| 19:55.24 | sonnixin | so if that suits of course i can help |
| 19:55.45 | sonnixin | gnarface: i know since the first time you wrote it! |
| 19:55.52 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-130.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:56.09 | gnarface | just making sure ;) |
| 19:56.09 | sonnixin | gnarface: i tried porting androind (lineage/CM) and know how hard is it |
| 19:56.22 | sonnixin | gnarface: nproblm of course |
| 19:57.56 | sonnixin | fsmithred: i also packaged some debian packages (for AUR like usage "AUR: a bsd's ports system like") |
| 19:58.20 | fsmithred | that's probably helpful |
| 19:59.44 | sonnixin | fsmithred: if there sth resource i may check before? |
| 19:59.45 | fsmithred | I recommend trying devuan in a vm or on a spare partition, and start hanging around here or the forum |
| 20:00.10 | fsmithred | yeah, I think there's a list of packages that need to be fixed |
| 20:00.25 | sonnixin | fsmithred: link? |
| 20:00.37 | fsmithred | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/ |
| 20:02.14 | chillfan | libsystemd.txt is for ascii |
| 20:02.42 | chillfan | theres a list for jessie somewhere, but I don't think there will be another point release |
| 20:02.42 | sonnixin | okay i will be working there, really thanks for help everyone fsmithred gnarface golinux DPA phogg |
| 20:03.04 | fsmithred | I think somewhere we have a list of packages for ascii that we had to fix |
| 20:03.29 | chillfan | there are some guidelines somewhere for packaging for devuan on talk.devuan.org |
| 20:03.51 | golinux | fsmithred: I think it's on the ascii roadmap |
| 20:03.58 | *** join/#devuan tonyoy_ (~tonyoy@cor13-3-88-164-147-63.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:04.08 | fsmithred | maybe. Also packaging info here - https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=549 |
| 20:04.47 | chillfan | aha that's nice |
| 20:04.55 | sonnixin | if i installed sysvinit-core and removed systemd and it's dependencies and started then fixing these particular packages first this will help right? |
| 20:05.15 | golinux | Yes |
| 20:05.23 | chillfan | you can also find some tips here: https://talk.devuan.org/t/os-documentation-how-to-package-for-devuan/568 |
| 20:05.38 | golinux | That's a bit outdated |
| 20:05.54 | chillfan | yeah, katolaz's version looks better |
| 20:06.03 | golinux | or could be by now. Things have changed a bit around here since that was written |
| 20:06.44 | sonnixin | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1110#p1110 |
| 20:06.45 | chillfan | to be fair it wasn't complete, but there was some talk there about it.. and maybe some useful tips, but not to be used as a guide really |
| 20:06.46 | sonnixin | ? |
| 20:07.07 | chillfan | yes use that one |
| 20:07.21 | chillfan | the link I gave is just some tips.. you should also look at debian maintainers guide |
| 20:10.45 | *** join/#devuan atrapado_ (~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado) |
| 20:11.15 | chillfan | to clarify, the dev1galaxy link is OK to use as a guide |
| 20:14.41 | sonnixin | i know i have been annoying but sorry but i came across this |
| 20:14.43 | sonnixin | Con |
| 20:14.45 | sonnixin | Can lead to slow boot |
| 20:14.49 | sonnixin | Since init starts tasks serially, it has to wait for a certain task to finish in order to start the next one. But when startup processes end up I/O blocked, this leads to considerable delays during boot. |
| 20:16.25 | sonnixin | i believe that Openrc is worse as it uses shell scripts in it's main code but that man said this thing is bad in sysvinit not in openrc and that is why he uses openrc, as i said i belive it's not right but can't make sure i am not too much into the process it se;f, plus he argued gnome runs okay under openrc i thnik it's just a successful port so no big deal |
| 20:16.32 | sonnixin | any help if possible? |
| 20:18.03 | gnarface | you didn't state an actual problem, just a bunch of bait |
| 20:18.40 | gnarface | are you having slow booting issues? is that the problem? because the diagnosis you were given is wrong. to solve the actual problem you need to figure out what's stalling during your bootup. |
| 20:18.55 | gnarface | (usually it's something the needs network access being started too early) |
| 20:19.37 | sonnixin | gnarface: (like parallel booting) he said makes openrc tackle this flaw! |
| 20:20.08 | gnarface | except now that you know that sysvinit also has parallel booting, and you admitted yourself you suspected openrc wasn't helping, why haven't we moved on? |
| 20:20.29 | gnarface | you were told something false. take a deep breath and try not to let it ruin the rest of your life. |
| 20:20.45 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-63-42.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 20:21.06 | sonnixin | is that the same as parallel service startup sorry my bad i didn't know i am not too much into init systems |
| 20:21.08 | fsmithred | reality check... how long does it take you to boot, how often do you do it, and should you do anything about it? https://xkcd.com/1205/ |
| 20:21.41 | gnarface | yes, if you're just nebulously worried about whether your system is booting too slow, time it. if it takes less than 20 seconds you're chasing your own tail. |
| 20:22.06 | fsmithred | wishes boot only took 20 seconds |
| 20:22.16 | blinkdog | My Commodore 64 used to boot instantly, then it's all been downhill from there ;-) |
| 20:22.23 | fsmithred | lol |
| 20:22.23 | gnarface | if it takes more than 2 minutes and it's only desktop hardware, a number of things could be wrong, none of them being sysvinit's actual fault (though a couple of them maybe requiring some hands-on time with it by you) |
| 20:22.42 | *** join/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b8641f1e00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 20:23.20 | sonnixin | fsmithred: it was code quality thing, and it seems right that it's the same thing as parallel booting |
| 20:23.25 | *** part/#devuan ThurahT (~ThurahT@149-210-220-39.colo.transip.net) |
| 20:23.27 | sonnixin | so i understand now |
| 20:23.28 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 20:24.45 | gnarface | blinkdog: sure instant boot to the bios command-line, but then 1:49 to load zork off a floppy. i'm not sure it counts. |
| 20:26.04 | sonnixin | BTW i totally understand and recognize on my own that almost every libre software supported either doesn't care or very cheaply attack SysVinit and it's just annoying me too much too "Many IT professionals and software engineers did not want to abandon the SysV init because it had served them well for so many years, and it was a very simple process to understand. So, the introduction of anything that could replace it was met with strong resistance." FOSS |
| 20:26.06 | sonnixin | bytes https://fossbytes.com/systemd-vs-sys-v-vs-upstart/ |
| 20:26.50 | sonnixin | also i have lots of sucking problems with systemd so i am not at all at that point with them i am just not that techyy yet about the topic |
| 20:30.31 | gnarface | sonnixin: this is more a conversation for #debianfork, but yes, you're right. you're struggling with two polar opposite forms of sotware development ethics. the sysvinit heritage was all about expecting computer users to be their own computer's mechinanic. the assumption was that if you're using unix, you consider yourself a computer scientist, and therefore are not above learning from the system itself in order to |
| 20:30.31 | gnarface | get better at using it. |
| 20:31.24 | gnarface | sonnixin: then systemd came along and told all the kids "UNDERSTANDING SHIT IS FOR NERDS! YOU DON'T WANNA BE A NERD DO YOU??? LET US TAKE CARE OF THAT FOR YOU! [glinting salesman's grin here]" |
| 20:31.54 | gnarface | sonnixin: of course, if they were actually capable of anything further than that schadenfreude they'd have already succeeded and we wouldn't be having this conversation. |
| 20:32.39 | sonnixin | gnarface: totally agree also specially that surprisngly it came from Rh like fedora (which sucked the same way as them and dnf as well) |
| 20:33.09 | gnarface | yea there's something ugly moving in the darkness |
| 20:33.28 | gnarface | that's really aside from the point though |
| 20:34.02 | gnarface | you *can* get sysvinit to do what you want. worst case scenario you occasionally have to change some LSB headers or symlinks here and there to override default boot orders |
| 20:34.11 | sonnixin | gnarface: it's already established point for me , only the other thing is that i am new to the thing and have been avoididng learning it's concept and theory for a while and try to use IRC channel this one (as you guys are really helpful more than others alot) so i ask for help abput tech things |
| 20:34.58 | gnarface | sonnixin: if you want to understand how sysvinit does dependency-based/parallel boot, it's not actually very hard. just look into the debian wiki on init script LSB header behavior in jessie and wheezy, before they erase it. |
| 20:35.29 | gnarface | well wheezy primarily i guess, since it was no longer the default as of jessie |
| 20:35.41 | gnarface | but their wiki information for that with regards to wheezy is still applicable directly to devuan jessie |
| 20:36.38 | gnarface | (that's actually the case for a lot of their wheezy information) |
| 20:37.18 | golinux | Ya'll know that systemd rants really belong on #debianfork, right? |
| 20:37.26 | gnarface | sorry |
| 20:37.46 | gnarface | part of that is ... sorta support related |
| 20:37.52 | gnarface | only if he actually does the reading though i guess |
| 20:38.18 | *** join/#devuan matlock (~matlock@24.96.238.87) |
| 20:38.48 | golinux | Yeah, I know and you(we)'ve helped him a lot but the logs are now really bloated with systemd nonsense |
| 20:45.07 | sh4rm4^bnc | <blinkdog> My Commodore 64 used to boot instantly, then it's all been downhill from there ;-) |
| 20:45.12 | sh4rm4^bnc | try sabotage linux then |
| 20:45.31 | sh4rm4^bnc | it takes 4 seconds to boot kernel, and 0 seconds to launch the rest |
| 20:46.26 | sh4rm4^bnc | the solution to speeding up start of dozens of services is to reduce their number |
| 20:46.35 | sh4rm4^bnc | not parallelizing them |
| 20:47.37 | jonadab | will never understand why so many distros put an MTA in the base install. |
| 20:48.32 | gnarface | well, the MTA i still use locally for system monitoring/reporting, but i definitely don't think most desktop users need a print server daemon sitting there waiting for connections on an instant's notice |
| 20:48.57 | gnarface | almost nobody is actually printing hardcopies often enough to justify not starting it then shutting it back down immediately for each individual print job |
| 20:49.57 | gnarface | but then you're back into the territory of choosing between whether the system should be fully hands-on manual control of everything or if it should be smart enough to just have everything always ready to go for any possible configuration |
| 20:50.01 | jonadab | tends to put chmod ugo-x `which exim` on a cron job, actually. Speeds up boot times by about a minute and a half. |
| 20:50.03 | chillfan | in fairness, gnu/linux is designed with networks in mind |
| 20:50.21 | blinkdog | sh4rm4^bnc: Checked out the GitHub page at https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage I'll put this on my reading list |
| 20:50.23 | jonadab | Downsides: zero. |
| 20:50.34 | chillfan | or well I guess *nix in general, but mail account makes sense except for desktop |
| 20:50.49 | chillfan | s/mail account/MTA/ |
| 20:51.03 | jonadab | MTA software only makes sense on mail servers, IMOI. |
| 20:51.06 | *** part/#devuan n4dir (~user@200116b8641f1e00021a4bfffe4896d9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 20:51.08 | jonadab | *IMO |
| 20:51.14 | jonadab | I don't want one on my web server. |
| 20:51.18 | jonadab | I don't want one on my firewall. |
| 20:51.19 | phogg | every system needs an MTA |
| 20:51.37 | jonadab | phogg: What _for_? |
| 20:51.51 | phogg | jonadab: for sending mail to local users from local daemons |
| 20:52.06 | phogg | only very specific cut-down hosts may be okay without one, e.g. inside containers |
| 20:52.08 | sh4rm4^bnc | typically there's only one local user |
| 20:52.14 | jonadab | phogg: There aren't local users on servers; and on desktops they don't get mail that way, they use POP3 or gmail. |
| 20:52.26 | chillfan | a lot of cronjobs and debian stuffs want to use MTA.. but this is something for #debianfork |
| 20:52.31 | phogg | there are always at least two users and more if you have daemons |
| 20:52.42 | gnarface | shudders to realise that there's people out there right now thinking "why doesn't it just use twitter?" |
| 20:52.52 | jonadab | gnarface: Haha. |
| 20:53.02 | phogg | jonadab: obviously you are confusing users with people |
| 20:53.41 | *** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@104.240.29.7) |
| 20:54.00 | jonadab | phogg: the correct way for daemons to notify the sysadmin of anything is to log it. |
| 20:54.45 | phogg | jonadab: I'm not prepared to argue about it. You can configure your systems any way you like. |
| 21:03.18 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.233.231.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 21:04.36 | *** join/#devuan tonyoy_ (~tonyoy@cor13-3-88-164-147-63.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:14.30 | *** join/#devuan cornflake (57cdf3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.205.243.190) |
| 21:16.56 | cornflake | hi, i get an "failed to fetch some archives" error when i try to apt-get upgrade, i couldn't find a working solution |
| 21:17.31 | cornflake | could anybody give me some hint? |
| 21:17.40 | chillfan | Are you able to resolve web addresses? |
| 21:18.17 | cornflake | yes, apt get update works fine |
| 21:18.39 | cornflake | i'm using tor transport |
| 21:19.43 | gnarface | just try it again? maybe you had bad luck and just caught the repo under flux |
| 21:19.50 | gnarface | happened to me a few times in a row the other night |
| 21:20.04 | gnarface | (running something like apt-cacher-ng locally probably can mitigate this entirely) |
| 21:20.08 | golinux | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20171023.184548.72098e73.en.html |
| 21:20.21 | cornflake | it's been like this for a couple of days now |
| 21:20.27 | gnarface | oh |
| 21:20.41 | gnarface | it's a TOR problem i guess, not related to the issue i was having |
| 21:20.59 | cornflake | but i was able to install other packages |
| 21:21.07 | gnarface | seems weird |
| 21:21.12 | gnarface | somewhat suspicious too |
| 21:21.17 | cornflake | only mysql-common and libmysql 404s |
| 21:21.25 | gnarface | i can't claim to have tried it over TOR myself |
| 21:23.45 | *** join/#devuan DPA (~Daniel@75-128-16-94.static.cable.fcom.ch) |
| 21:23.59 | cornflake | i don't get the "Can't complete SOCKS5 connection to 0.0.0.0:0. (1)" part |
| 21:24.00 | chillfan | Must be with amprolla? Do the onion addresses point at the new pkgmaster.devuan.org? |
| 21:24.10 | cornflake | but the rest looks familiar |
| 21:24.33 | cornflake | the onion address works through tor browser |
| 21:24.34 | DPA | Can you post the URL? |
| 21:24.52 | chillfan | oh i missed that |
| 21:25.21 | *** part/#devuan jobregon[m] (jobregonma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hnijkgjrcfrezaey) |
| 21:26.05 | chillfan | Sometimes when a connection fails, a client will throw a socks error |
| 21:26.06 | cornflake | not sure if anything changed about the onion domain and what it points at |
| 21:26.21 | cornflake | it was working for me for a long time now |
| 21:26.45 | chillfan | Did anything change on your side lately? |
| 21:27.28 | cornflake | not sure, i was just doing updates every other day as usual |
| 21:28.16 | cornflake | a couple days ago i got a message about outdated xserver and mysql |
| 21:28.28 | chillfan | sometimes if a web address or a particular file isn't available your client will throw those socks errors. I get that with tor on another system |
| 21:29.02 | cornflake | yeah, i thought this might be some temporary problem |
| 21:29.42 | cornflake | so i wasn't worried, but now it keeps happening again for several days |
| 21:30.25 | sonnixin | just searched out that sysvinit supports auto usb insertion auto-detect , it supports it through eudev am i right? or am i missing sth?, it's just not out of box support that is the thing |
| 21:32.10 | chillfan | The only thing I can think of is the package being missing |
| 21:32.52 | cornflake | my first thought was that maybe the packages are missing because ascii release became the new stable i just missed it |
| 21:33.12 | cornflake | but the devuan site still lists jessie as stable |
| 21:33.33 | chillfan | Yeah Jessie is the stable release. One thing has changed, packages are now hosted at pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 21:34.30 | cornflake | so, if i use "auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie" it should work? |
| 21:35.13 | cornflake | or is there a new onion domain pointing to pkgmaster.devuan.org? |
| 21:35.54 | chillfan | thats what I'm wondering. You could try with auto.mirror.devuan.org |
| 21:36.12 | chillfan | would be helpful to know if that's working |
| 21:36.17 | chillfan | for you I mean |
| 21:36.32 | cornflake | :) |
| 21:39.05 | *** join/#devuan ThurahT (~ThurahT@149-210-220-39.colo.transip.net) |
| 21:39.45 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.47.204.162) |
| 21:40.23 | chillfan | I can get mysql-common here, version number matches the one you tried. I think you're only having a problem getting packages from the security mirror judging from the output you posted |
| 21:40.48 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 21:41.43 | cornflake | yes, it's security mirror |
| 21:45.42 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 21:45.58 | chillfan | maybe it is the hidden service |
| 21:46.43 | cornflake | that's funny, now i get 'Protocol "http" not supported or disabled in libcurl' with auto.mirror.devuan.org |
| 21:47.19 | cornflake | with https://auto.mirror.devuan.org & https transport |
| 21:47.46 | chillfan | auto.mirror.devuan.org doesn't support https transport afaik |
| 21:48.27 | cornflake | but it's accessible through web browser?... |
| 21:48.49 | cornflake | over https, i mean |
| 21:49.00 | DPA | I figured out what the tor problem is. The onion address for the debian-security pool is diffrent from the other ones, and they used the wrong one. |
| 21:49.25 | chillfan | see if you can use plain http? I know pkgmaster.devuan.org supports https transport. |
| 21:49.48 | chillfan | But it's always failed on the auto mirror url for me |
| 21:50.23 | cornflake | i tried it just now and it's working |
| 21:50.34 | cornflake | the https://auto... |
| 21:50.50 | chillfan | ah OK. And your packages upgraded this time? |
| 21:51.35 | *** join/#devuan finalriposte1 (~finalripo@chat.staringintotheabyss.com) |
| 21:54.07 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.47.204.162) |
| 21:54.18 | DPA | parazyd: For the debian security packages, the tor redirect must be to http://sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion/debian-security, not http://vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion/debian-security. See http://onion.debian.org |
| 21:55.37 | cornflake | yes, it worked fine through plain http |
| 21:56.48 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.47.204.162) |
| 21:58.17 | chillfan | Ah so it's amprolla. I'd update it but put the onion address line back for when it's fixed |
| 21:58.24 | cornflake | so using debian repos for the security packages won't cause a problem? what if they update something systemd-related? |
| 21:59.02 | *** part/#devuan Nazmo (~nazmi@2a01:e35:2ec3:ab40:21f:3cff:fed2:5e9f) |
| 21:59.02 | chillfan | I'd recommend waiting, and not mixing repos.. that can get messy |
| 21:59.16 | blinkdog | cornflake: amprolla should take care of the merge |
| 21:59.46 | blinkdog | that is, if Devuan had to repackage or ban a systemd related package, amprolla would filter it or direct you to the Devuan source |
| 21:59.47 | chillfan | but if you put your onion line back it may just start working since the issue is known about |
| 22:00.42 | chillfan | and you can always switch to https temporarily |
| 22:01.12 | cornflake | ok |
| 22:02.40 | cornflake | thank you guys for your help and patience, i really appreciate it |
| 22:03.19 | chillfan | no worries :) |
| 22:04.42 | cornflake | it's the second time i come asking for help here and you respond immediately, it's great! :) |
| 22:07.14 | *** join/#devuan sonnixin (~sonnixin@41.47.204.162) |
| 22:08.37 | chillfan | yeah the community is quite good :) |
| 22:10.20 | *** join/#devuan finalriposte (~finalripo@chat.staringintotheabyss.com) |
| 22:16.15 | *** part/#devuan cornflake (57cdf3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.205.243.190) |
| 22:17.07 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:17.57 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 22:20.32 | golinux | It's soooo nice to see you hanging around again. |
| 22:20.58 | golinux | Want to come to our Wed meet at 20:30 UTC? |
| 22:22.54 | DPA | Who? |
| 22:23.35 | golinux | DPA: Wrong window sorry |
| 22:24.40 | rrq | (that's they way the make everyone feel rejected:) |
| 22:26.18 | ThurahT | haha |
| 22:28.33 | golinux | goes to stand in a corner |
| 22:29.55 | ThurahT | for warmth? |
| 22:30.40 | ThurahT | being 90 degrees and all.. Yeah.. I'll show my self out. |
| 22:30.45 | parazyd | DPA: i changed the debian-security onion link |
| 22:30.47 | parazyd | thanks |
| 22:31.04 | parazyd | it used to be the latter one, seems that they've changed it once again |
| 22:32.50 | ThurahT | using onion links was one of the things that made me go for Devuan. It is the small things that makes it. Most other sites just blocks you right off. Devuan embraces it instead. |
| 22:34.11 | parazyd | screw clownflare |
| 22:36.27 | ThurahT | indeed so. |
| 22:49.37 | *** join/#devuan xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 23:00.44 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 23:34.03 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@211.114.220.111.sta.wbroadband.net.au) |
| 23:47.58 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.58.46.242) |
| 23:49.29 | *** join/#devuan R0b0t1_ (~~@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |