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| 04:18.54 | alexlikerock | http://devuan-mx.org/ to spanish |
| 04:19.15 | alexlikerock | devuan en español (at spanish) |
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| 05:42.56 | lowin | What are alternatives to network-manager? My primary use of it is connecting to an openvpn server, but the network-manager version shipped with jessie is quite old and doesn't accept newer openvpn 2.4 options |
| 05:44.28 | lowin | I'd rather to not resort to shell scripts for this |
| 05:56.54 | Xenguy | wicd? |
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| 07:12.51 | AlexLikeRock_ | lowin, we use WICD |
| 07:14.15 | AlexLikeRock_ | you can configure you NETWORK by Scratch , editing configuration at /etc |
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| 09:04.05 | aitor | lowin: i'm working on simple-netaid-gtk, but it'll be for ascii |
| 09:04.06 | aitor | https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/simple-netaid-gtk/tree/master |
| 09:06.40 | lowin | aitor, Well that'd be nice. thanks for help everyone. I looked into wicd but it looked like it doesn't really support openvpn natively? The best I could find was starting the openvpn service upon ethernet connection |
| 09:06.56 | lowin | Perhaps I'll just jump to ascii |
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| 09:26.48 | rrq | lowin: when installing openvpn, didn't it install its control scripts? eg /etc/default/openvpn where you configure your node? |
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| 10:56.11 | Vizva | !devuan |
| 10:56.11 | infobot | devuan https://devuan.org literally mirrors debian in realtime ("all the same") except replacing packages with systemd-dependencies, and it introduces its own themes and branding. Also see factoid (~/!)amprolla |
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| 11:01.11 | amarsh04 | migrating to devuan now |
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| 11:11.36 | amarsh04 | back |
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| 11:34.16 | amarsh04 | hmm, on my amd64 /lib/init/vars.sh went missing in the upgrade, was able to copy it from my i386 machine |
| 11:34.39 | amarsh04 | s/upgrade/migration from Debian/ |
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| 12:53.25 | lowin | I've successfully upgraded to ascii. all seems good. except the font rendering is terrible now. |
| 12:53.31 | lowin | Any ideas? |
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| 13:25.02 | amarsh04 | lowin, there was some update in Debian several months back that messed up font rendering for a good proportion of users |
| 13:26.27 | lowin | amarsh04, yeah that could be the problem. I tried changing the default fonts and setting up compositor. It got better but still noticeably worse than before |
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| 14:07.57 | Walex | lowin: that's vague handwaving... "terrible", "worse than before". |
| 14:08.24 | Walex | lowin: font rendering depends on many parameters, and different programs use different methods and fonts, so details matter a lot. |
| 14:09.20 | Walex | lowin: I have written some detailed font notes here: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/linuxFonts.html |
| 14:10.10 | Walex | lowin: also look at this dradt: http://www.sabi.co.uk/blog/drafts2.html?140228b#140228b |
| 14:11.51 | lowin | Walex, It went from "terrible" to "worse than original" after I tried to fix it. Right now I'm satisfied enough to not tinker with it for now. But thanks for the links. I'll bookmark them for later |
| 14:17.01 | gnarface | lowin: try out `dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config` and `dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig`, if it hasn't yet been mentioned to you |
| 14:17.45 | gnarface | lowin: i know what you're talking about; i noticed it right away when the change hit unstable. it's jarring and ugly but they're saying it's actually more accurate ("like windows does it" basically) |
| 14:18.17 | gnarface | lowin: if you roll back to the old type of partial/no hinting they say it makes it look like it did before. it doesn't, but it makes it less bad at least. |
| 14:19.23 | gnarface | lowin: it made fonts in wine WAY worse when unsmoothed too, but they were already ugly without smoothing anyway, and that's easy enough to fix with a registry edit |
| 14:22.38 | gnarface | there can be issues with fonts behaving differently with the new hinting type i guess because it exposes the fact that not all of them had all the hinting data in the first place |
| 14:22.41 | gnarface | or something like that |
| 14:23.00 | gnarface | probably less noticable on CRT |
| 14:28.51 | lowin | gnarface, Interesting. since when what windows does became the standard.. |
| 14:30.16 | lowin | I tried reconfiguring fontconfig and it's much better now. thank you |
| 14:31.08 | gnarface | no problemo |
| 14:32.41 | gnarface | the freedesktop cartel seems to be the ones behind alot of these "standardization" pushes |
| 14:33.35 | gnarface | what i read had suggested this was a legitimate case of linux doing it wrong |
| 14:33.50 | gnarface | but i can't argue with the fact that the old way made the fonts rendered a lot crisper |
| 14:34.04 | gnarface | this new look... i don't know what the benefit people see in it is really |
| 14:34.33 | gnarface | just makes everything look blurry like you're using a crappy CRT that is badly in need of a degauss |
| 14:35.47 | gnarface | maybe there are commercial fonts that can justify it with better quality hinting data (non-free stuff from adobe illustrator maybe) |
| 14:35.59 | gnarface | i don't know |
| 14:36.05 | gnarface | but yea, i turned it off right away |
| 14:37.04 | lowin | hmm, maybe we ARE just afraid of change. gnome3, systemd, pulseaudio, udev's new interface naming, other things that I forgot and now... font rendering. |
| 14:40.23 | gnarface | maybe there's a good reason we're afraid of change. maybe most change is detrimental to getting work done. |
| 14:41.09 | gnarface | maybe people who aren't inherently mistrustful of poorly-justified sweeping changes just aren't smart enough to trace cause to effect |
| 14:41.29 | gnarface | but i dunno. i freely admit i've become a curmudgeon |
| 14:41.36 | gnarface | but i perhaps was born that way |
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| 17:13.27 | Vizva | the virtualbox system is not correct to install for me |
| 17:13.53 | Vizva | remove and reinstall should solve the problem but it doesnt |
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| 17:45.27 | Vizva | this is what i doubt.there are more changes in the system than only systemd or the systemd changes corrupt some system ways |
| 17:46.05 | gnarface | everyone has problems with virtualbox |
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| 17:46.29 | gnarface | they always find a fix eventually but i don't know what the struggle is really worth |
| 17:46.31 | Vizva | in devuan ? |
| 17:46.32 | gnarface | kvm isn't that hard |
| 17:46.35 | gnarface | just in general |
| 17:46.43 | Vizva | thats not true |
| 17:46.55 | gnarface | well, in debian and devuan both that i've seen, at least |
| 17:47.25 | Vizva | i did run virtualbox a long time in debian and i didnt see bugs or errors , what could be important |
| 17:47.36 | Vizva | no devuan and debian arent the same |
| 17:47.39 | gnarface | it just seems to be a quality control thing |
| 17:47.42 | gnarface | different versions |
| 17:47.44 | gnarface | etc |
| 17:47.44 | Vizva | i run every day in problems |
| 17:48.00 | Vizva | problems that i dont see in debian before |
| 17:48.09 | Vizva | so i think this is because of 1 reason |
| 17:48.10 | gnarface | although, aren't there some guest driver packages you need to install/configure for too to make it work? they're not on by default probably... |
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| 17:48.17 | gnarface | are you sure you remembered to do that? |
| 17:48.46 | Vizva | if i reinstall in debian virtualbox , all problems are solved |
| 17:49.00 | gnarface | try it |
| 17:49.06 | gnarface | try my suggestion |
| 17:49.08 | gnarface | look it up |
| 17:49.29 | gnarface | that's all the help i can provide i'm sorry |
| 17:50.12 | Vizva | i think its because , the changes of systemd or other changes dont reach the needed things in the system |
| 17:50.12 | Vizva | what solution? |
| 17:50.12 | Vizva | to go away from virtualbox? |
| 17:50.30 | Vizva | i say you that devuan is beta |
| 17:50.41 | Vizva | there are changes but they are wrong |
| 17:50.56 | gnarface | well it's possible virtualbox relies on systemd, i don't know. i didn't think so... i think you should maybe ask in their irc channel for more help? |
| 17:51.03 | Vizva | thats what i think |
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| 17:51.21 | Vizva | i have not problems with virtualbox |
| 17:51.38 | Vizva | i have problems to run devuan well, virtualbox is one of 20 other problems |
| 17:51.58 | gnarface | yes, so you keep saying, but alot of your problems seem to be self-inflicted |
| 17:52.24 | Vizva | no |
| 17:52.29 | gnarface | i think you should try some other distros, if you really like another one better and it really works better with virtualbox go for it |
| 17:52.38 | Vizva | i ahd problems but there are other problems |
| 17:52.41 | Vizva | had |
| 17:52.47 | gnarface | if you find another distro's virtualbox is working better, take a note of the version - maybe try that version on devuan? |
| 17:53.18 | Vizva | i did try the things from oracle |
| 17:53.47 | Vizva | i did try the things of debian |
| 17:53.47 | Vizva | but it looks like how you did say it , maybe systemd |
| 17:54.18 | Vizva | i give critic |
| 17:54.18 | Vizva | and i dont give critic to other linuxes |
| 17:54.18 | Vizva | never |
| 17:54.45 | Vizva | not to mint not to arch linux |
| 17:54.46 | Vizva | they are complicated and the views are different |
| 17:54.53 | Vizva | but here it looks like the coding is not reach the need one |
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| 17:55.12 | Vizva | so now? |
| 17:55.54 | fsmithred | I must be weird, because I don't have any problems with virtualbox. |
| 17:56.17 | Vizva | its not like i should i must change my system |
| 17:56.17 | Vizva | becasue i cant longer stand it |
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| 17:56.46 | Vizva | if you for example install from oracle then change back to the stable , then it should replace all things correct |
| 17:56.50 | Vizva | but it doenst |
| 17:57.17 | Vizva | and it dont know the debian adds for jessie from orancle |
| 17:57.17 | Vizva | oracle |
| 17:57.33 | gnarface | downgrading is actually not supported. that's not different in debian either. sometimes it works by luck but usually it's just not obvious what broke. |
| 17:58.24 | Vizva | if you add oracles virtualbox for jessie |
| 17:58.24 | Vizva | it should run |
| 17:58.26 | Vizva | but it doesnt |
| 17:58.46 | fsmithred | If you're going to switch back and forth between the oracle virtualbox and the one in the repo, you need to look around and make sure all parts are uninstalled before you install the other one. |
| 17:58.56 | Vizva | other things is zfs dont mount from booting |
| 17:58.56 | Vizva | i have always import it from hand |
| 17:59.30 | fsmithred | did you read the link I posted a couple days ago with the bug report about zfs and encryption? |
| 18:00.06 | Vizva | thats again such "who maybe forget to code it" |
| 18:00.06 | Vizva | i did |
| 18:00.06 | Vizva | uninstall everything |
| 18:00.06 | Vizva | i did use it on debian and there isnt such a problem |
| 18:00.06 | Vizva | it mount on boot |
| 18:00.13 | Vizva | one time imported and its then there |
| 18:00.46 | Vizva | iam sorry but i dont believe in such bad luck all days |
| 18:01.13 | Vizva | and i did use debian in 1991 and in thins times i did all solutions by myself |
| 18:01.17 | Vizva | so dont say i dont know all things i do |
| 18:01.27 | Vizva | i doubt it |
| 18:01.30 | Vizva | i doubt |
| 18:01.35 | Vizva | thank you for read me |
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| 18:01.46 | gnarface | jeez |
| 18:02.20 | gnarface | some people really can't admit when they're wrong |
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| 18:03.10 | fsmithred | did he even say what his vbox problem was? |
| 18:03.29 | gnarface | no |
| 18:04.14 | gnarface | i assume it's the same one everyone else always has and it always turns out to be their own damn fault |
| 18:04.55 | fsmithred | yeah, when I run into a problem I first assume that I'm doing something wrong. |
| 18:05.26 | fsmithred | if I want to point a finger, it's easy to say that the documentation wasn't good enough, but that doesn't help me in any way |
| 18:06.30 | gnarface | he probably just forgot to apt-get autoremove in between completely purging the old virtualbox install and then decided to fly off the handle about it |
| 18:06.31 | nacelle | debian wasnt around in 1991 |
| 18:06.51 | gnarface | i'm not sure linux was even around in 1991 |
| 18:07.02 | nacelle | it was, barely |
| 18:07.14 | nacelle | I started using it in 1992 |
| 18:07.27 | nacelle | debian definitely wasnt around then |
| 18:07.34 | nacelle | it was SLS or .. SLS. |
| 18:07.54 | nacelle | slackware came out a little bit later |
| 18:08.05 | nacelle | <-- old |
| 18:09.02 | nacelle | doing weird stuff and saying it "should" work... is going to get you into a lot of problems |
| 18:09.09 | nacelle | without actually doing anything else |
| 18:09.33 | gnarface | well i actually made the same mistake when i was just getting started with debian |
| 18:09.36 | fsmithred | The Debian Project was officially founded by Ian Murdock on August 16th, 1993. |
| 18:09.38 | gnarface | but it's something i was scolded about |
| 18:09.47 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.59 | gnarface | if it worked in debian, he did something differently |
| 18:10.36 | nacelle | wait, thats virutalbox -on- debian? |
| 18:10.46 | nacelle | not debian in virtualbox on a mac or something? |
| 18:10.53 | gnarface | jessie he said |
| 18:10.55 | gnarface | shrugs |
| 18:11.20 | fsmithred | good question. I'm not sure. I think the zfs is inside a virtualbox vm. |
| 18:11.38 | nacelle | its hard to tell, but it does seem like debian in vm |
| 18:11.46 | gnarface | he was blaming devuan for it and going on and on about systemd being better yesterday too, then it turned out to be his flaky ass router |
| 18:11.46 | nacelle | not sure if virtualbox even runs on linux tbh |
| 18:11.58 | fsmithred | yeah, vbox works in linux |
| 18:12.12 | nacelle | its easier to sit on irc and bitch than actually figure out the problem sometimes |
| 18:12.24 | nacelle | fsmithred: weird |
| 18:12.30 | nacelle | i guess I can see it, but... why? |
| 18:12.35 | fsmithred | you can pull it from the official repos or the not-fully-free version from oracle |
| 18:12.38 | fsmithred | in jessie |
| 18:12.38 | nacelle | just use qemu/kvm and maybe virt-manager ? |
| 18:12.49 | fsmithred | there's no virtualbox in stretch/ascii |
| 18:12.58 | fsmithred | and then it appears again in sid/ceres |
| 18:13.28 | nacelle | well now i'm really confused by that persons incoherent ranting |
| 18:13.34 | nacelle | shrugs |
| 18:13.50 | nacelle | i've not encountered anything super weird with devuan |
| 18:13.58 | nacelle | i mean, the pi port is half assed, but it works |
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| 18:14.31 | nacelle | (half assed = its missing all the pi controls and firmwares that raspbian/etc. have) |
| 18:15.02 | nacelle | works = its a stable linux on it, but you'll be doing a lot more work to get things going for the duration |
| 18:16.09 | nacelle | do people say dev-juan or something like de-vu-an ? |
| 18:16.20 | nacelle | dev-u-an ? |
| 18:16.34 | gnarface | i heard an audio clip it's supposed to be dev-juan |
| 18:16.36 | nacelle | i've been saying dev-juan in my head not realizing I'm mkaing it up |
| 18:16.44 | nacelle | cool |
| 18:16.54 | gnarface | think in italian while you say it, i guess |
| 18:16.55 | nacelle | maybe I read that somewhere then |
| 18:17.01 | nacelle | no! |
| 18:17.22 | nacelle | (I dont know how to**) |
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| 18:18.25 | fsmithred | dev-one |
| 18:19.04 | fsmithred | that's what I heard on the audio clip |
| 18:20.22 | fsmithred | but I always say dev-juan |
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| 18:45.13 | nacelle | wonders if a larger amount of devs named Juan will work on Devuan as compared to other distros over time |
| 18:45.33 | nacelle | hopes so |
| 18:45.41 | nacelle | that would be excellent ;-) |
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| 18:52.41 | fsmithred | nacelle, I expect you to report on that in two years. |
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| 21:13.32 | aitor | i have an issue with live-sdk: [!!] some extra packages don't exist |
| 21:13.42 | aitor | ffmpeg |
| 21:13.50 | aitor | where is ffmpeg? |
| 21:15.56 | aitor | i also have another issue with gvfs, trying to remove systemd from it |
| 21:17.24 | holla | aitor: i'm pretty sure that i've installed ffmpeg on jessie - maybe it's in contrib - not sure |
| 21:18.22 | DPA | There is one in jessie-backports/main |
| 21:18.25 | aitor | Oops, is it non-free? |
| 21:18.37 | aitor | it wasn't |
| 21:19.21 | aitor | the issue with gvfs is related with the 1.26 version |
| 21:19.49 | aitor | it should be 1.22 in ascii |
| 21:20.53 | aitor | i removed systemd from the 1.22 version, but i can't build the 1.26 version in jessie |
| 21:22.20 | DPA | I just rechecked, ffmpeg is indeed missing. I dtill habe it in my local mirror, which is always one or two days behind. |
| 21:22.29 | DPA | *still |
| 21:22.38 | DPA | *have |
| 21:22.55 | aitor | due to its dependency on libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.45.7) |
| 21:23.08 | aitor | 2.42 in jessie |
| 21:23.27 | aitor | i tried with 2.42, but it's not possible |
| 21:24.17 | aitor | the version of gvfs ins jessie should be 1.22, instead of 1.26 :) |
| 21:24.27 | aitor | in* |
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| 21:30.21 | aitor | bbl |
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| 22:17.21 | TheTrueHooha | I am having difficulty installing a third-party repositiory as it has a dependency on libpulse0 |
| 22:17.31 | TheTrueHooha | I am trying to install mumble |
| 22:17.39 | TheTrueHooha | The following error is prouced in apt |
| 22:17.45 | TheTrueHooha | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:17.47 | TheTrueHooha | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:17.49 | TheTrueHooha | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
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| 22:35.48 | gnarface | TheTrueHooha: but mumble is already in devuan. why would you do that? |
| 22:39.53 | TheTrueHooha | It is? |
| 22:39.55 | TheTrueHooha | I did not know that |
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