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| 02:50.52 | AlexLikeRock | !es |
| 02:50.52 | infobot | it has been said that es is Para los usuarios devuan de habla hispana que requieren la ayuda, ensamble por favor el canal del #devuan-mx -- Spanish-speaking devuan users requiring support, please join #devuan-mx |
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| 09:20.32 | vdvevd | hello, can someone tell me a good application to send files over bluetooth for Devuan? |
| 09:20.53 | vdvevd | or if it has this feature built in? i cannot find anything if i search bluetooth on the application finder |
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| 09:23.41 | gnarface | vdvevd: apt-cache search ^obex |
| 09:24.19 | gnarface | vdvevd: (at least in the US, some carriers disable it, regardless of native hardware support) |
| 09:25.49 | vdvevd | Thanks gnarface, I installed bluez-obexd, how do i actually send a file with it? |
| 09:29.26 | gnarface | i don't actually know, sorry |
| 09:30.00 | gnarface | if the phone supports obexftp, it's the easiest one |
| 09:30.19 | gnarface | i wasn't able to really test any of the other tools available, due to lack of driver support or lack of hardware support or both |
| 09:30.52 | gnarface | (and i haven't looked into it in a while either, because these days usually a usb cable will work even when bluetooth does not |
| 09:30.53 | gnarface | ) |
| 09:31.31 | vdvevd | Ah i see thank you. I'll have a search around to see how it works. Will try obexftp too. TY |
| 09:32.58 | gnarface | obexftp -b [bluetooth address] -l[path] |
| 09:33.05 | gnarface | for example, that lists the files |
| 09:35.12 | gnarface | the last two phones i used it on, they spit the list out in some rough html/xml format |
| 09:35.28 | gnarface | so to make a script that parses it, i had to use a little regexp |
| 09:37.04 | vdvevd | any way to find my bluetooth address? |
| 09:37.19 | gnarface | uh, yea |
| 09:37.24 | gnarface | hci something |
| 09:37.43 | gnarface | hcitool or hcidump i think |
| 09:37.52 | gnarface | part of bluez on my install |
| 09:39.15 | gnarface | yea, `hcitool inq` or `hcitool scan` i think |
| 09:39.31 | gnarface | and hciconfig is like ifconfig for your local bluetooth device |
| 09:40.56 | vdvevd | all those commands are working for me but I'm getting 'device is not available: no such device' do i have to know the device name? no way to just list the bluetooth devices in my vicinity? |
| 09:41.27 | gnarface | only if they're marked "discoverable" |
| 09:41.56 | gnarface | if this is your own phone, make sure that it is (it may not be on by default) |
| 09:42.40 | vdvevd | ah ok, I wanted just to play around with seeing what is around me at the moment, the phone i want to put music on via bluetooth I can't turn on yet (waiting for a pac port today lol) |
| 09:43.16 | gnarface | hcitool should be able to list bluetooth address *and* device name of every locally discoverable bluetooth device, though it may take a few moments for any output to show up at all, bluetooth isn't very ast |
| 09:43.17 | gnarface | *fast |
| 09:43.32 | gnarface | most devices will even tell you the time for free |
| 09:43.54 | gnarface | that part always worked for me, but actually transferring files is another matter |
| 09:44.17 | vdvevd | got it. i type 'hcitool dev' and the devices show up |
| 09:44.17 | gnarface | hardware support on the vendor side, software support on the linux and isp side, what a mess |
| 09:44.44 | gnarface | hmmm. hcitool dev, isn't that your own local physical onboard device? i guess i don't remember |
| 09:44.55 | gnarface | you'll also need range; usually less than a few feet |
| 09:45.08 | vdvevd | thanks for your help gnar, not sure how your memory is so good knowing all this stuff |
| 09:45.59 | gnarface | probably an abnormality from head trauma |
| 09:46.14 | vdvevd | lol |
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| 09:52.00 | gnarface | (and you're welcome) |
| 09:52.27 | gnarface | if you want to tether (assuming the isp allows it), look into ppp and dund |
| 09:53.25 | gnarface | obexftp shouldn't require any of that stuff though, just device support |
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| 12:15.17 | bill-auger | <#dyne:alv> to all i need help to test a new jitsi server https://jitsi.dyne.org/test |
| 12:15.17 | bill-auger | <#dyne:alv> more people the better is the test |
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| 13:20.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | playing with BT you want to make sure you got the recent security patches |
| 13:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | is DUN really tethering? |
| 13:22.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe rather PNAT |
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| 14:22.45 | fromport | UBNT 49.99 -0.62 (-1.23%) <- another nose dive ? ;-) |
| 14:23.19 | fromport | wrong channel, sorry! |
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| 15:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://boingboing.net/2017/09/18/antifeatures-for-all.html :-/ |
| 15:54.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | fromport: will EdgeOS switch to systemd eventually? Or rather "rebase" to devuan? |
| 15:55.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | context: https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/205202560-EdgeRouter-Add-other-Debian-packages-to-EdgeOS |
| 16:03.55 | debdog | wonders how that EME will work |
| 16:04.57 | MinceR | major webshites will depend on it and lock out free sw browsers |
| 16:05.38 | MinceR | lusers will flock to the locked down browsers that do what the content lobby wants |
| 16:05.54 | MinceR | and the open web dies, then we get to build something sane from the ashes |
| 16:06.51 | Wonka | with a bit of luck, people will RE those extensions to make them work with Linux... |
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| 16:07.15 | Wonka | also, who will use them? Youtube? Vimeo? Netflix? Hulu? |
| 16:07.38 | Wonka | those are all available on Android. |
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| 16:08.07 | Wonka | I envision finally getting some fast Android emulator |
| 16:08.32 | Wonka | there's Android for TVs - why are there no x86 Android VMs? |
| 16:08.33 | debdog | thanks MinceR, that made it quite clear |
| 16:10.06 | blinkdog | I thought the security of DRM systems relied upon the secrecy of the algorithm. |
| 16:10.13 | blinkdog | How is that going to work with a published standard? |
| 16:10.14 | gnarface | i don't think anything really stops you from running android in a vm, did it? |
| 16:10.25 | MinceR | with a bit of luck the free world will come up with an open web and sane people will flock to it, leaving the w3c and the DRM fan club without power |
| 16:10.36 | furrywolf | no, strong cryptography explicitly assumes the algorithm is public |
| 16:11.03 | furrywolf | keys, however, are secret. |
| 16:11.07 | blinkdog | Agreed, strong cryptography properly used does assume the algorithm is public. |
| 16:11.21 | blinkdog | But that only works where you use cryptography properly; i.e.: you want the recipient to recover the plaintext |
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| 16:11.47 | blinkdog | DRM is trying to prevent the recipient from recovering the plaintext except under very very limited circumstances. |
| 16:12.02 | blinkdog | The way they do that is to hide the algorithm from the recipient. |
| 16:12.05 | Wonka | blinkdog: EME is not a published algorithm, but a standard for how to use your own algorithm on the browser side. |
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| 16:13.06 | Wonka | blinkdog: I do think those algorithm implementations, however they will be, will get reverse engineered very fast |
| 16:13.10 | blinkdog | So EME is going to be a published standard for what, a kind of DRM Virtual Machine? |
| 16:13.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | !trust |
| 16:13.28 | infobot | [trust] safe, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbS_lDJuJg |
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| 16:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, poetterware, EME, DRM at large, tivoization everywhere. Very very VERY sad times |
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| 16:16.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | finally big business re-posesses the internet and linux |
| 16:16.18 | Wonka | DocScrutinizer05: ack |
| 16:16.28 | Wonka | Linux itself not. |
| 16:16.42 | Wonka | Also, we finally have the first open source microcontroller. |
| 16:17.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | !aegis |
| 16:17.08 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 16:17.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | is where I started fighting that shit |
| 16:17.34 | Wonka | https://hackaday.com/2017/01/05/hands-on-with-the-first-open-source-microcontroller/ |
| 16:19.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia corporate N9/meego devs in a public hearing aswered my question about the bootloader with "that's not part of the OS and thus not relevant for us" OHMY!!!! |
| 16:19.22 | Wonka | DocScrutinizer05: I'm a bit sad that OpenMoko failed so miserably. |
| 16:20.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wonka: well, OM devels still hungry :-) |
| 16:21.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | OM failure was mainly economical |
| 16:21.56 | Wonka | well, arrival of iPhone and Android didn't exactly help |
| 16:22.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, exactly |
| 16:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | now people more and more realize _what_ they get with this crap |
| 16:23.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | like https://neo900.org/news/about-the-asn1-vulnerability |
| 16:23.47 | Wonka | well... we'd need newer hardware than the gta02, of course. |
| 16:24.00 | Wonka | and an android emulator. |
| 16:24.28 | Wonka | because who would want to carry an android phone too, or go without all the things they're used to? |
| 16:24.55 | Wonka | OTOH, Jolla(?)s android emulator(?) stuff didn't work too well, nor? |
| 16:26.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are a few android emulator projects |
| 16:27.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | they all will fail when it comes to TC which is more and more an immanent part of any android app |
| 16:28.54 | *** join/#devuan ttr (ttr@pl.ttrsite.net) |
| 16:29.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | "...third party software that requires a safe execution environment." |
| 16:29.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | safe from user messing with it, to run strace or a screen grabber against the app |
| 16:30.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | poetterware resp RH evil masterplan aims at exactly same direction basically |
| 16:31.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | the true purpose of "secure boot" |
| 16:32.04 | ttr | hello everyone - apologies if this was mentioned already but couldn't find information about this nowhere - seems that init-system-helpers on arm64 is only with version of 1.24, which breaks dependencies in ascii |
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| 16:34.42 | Wonka | by the way... I noticed there's "jessie-security" and "ascii-security" in http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/, but neither "stable-security" nor "testing-security" - why is that, and could that maybe be fixed? |
| 16:35.05 | *** join/#devuan CHCl3 (~CHCl3@46.6.48.140) |
| 16:35.24 | CHCl3 | hi |
| 16:35.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wonka: please use chanlog, it's been discussed already |
| 16:35.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
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| 16:36.22 | CHCl3 | I've just installed devuan as stable in my laptop and found that just root can manage sound trhough alsa and also the brightness of the screen |
| 16:37.16 | CHCl3 | for example mocp doesn't work gives me Can't open pid file for writing |
| 16:37.27 | CHCl3 | but sudo mocp works fine |
| 16:39.00 | Wonka | DocScrutinizer05: mmh, thx. found reasoning. but why alias anything at all then? *sigh* |
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| 16:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I don't recall, that's why I pinted to chanlog |
| 16:39.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | pointed* |
| 16:40.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | all I recall is: "it's very tricky" |
| 16:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | because devuan isn't in sync with debian releases |
| 16:40.30 | CHCl3 | anyone can give me a hand on this? |
| 16:41.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | CHCl3: without any first hand experience, I'd suspect it's mostly a permission issue |
| 16:41.56 | debdog | CHCl3: wild guess: check groups the ordinary user is assigned to |
| 16:42.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 16:42.10 | ttr | CHCl3: re- alsa - check if your user is in audio group |
| 16:42.11 | CHCl3 | my user is under audio group |
| 16:42.17 | ttr | and video possibly |
| 16:42.40 | CHCl3 | i also think it a group management issue |
| 16:42.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | id alsa |
| 16:43.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | err `id pulse*` whatever |
| 16:43.13 | ttr | bit stupid - did you fully log off (reboot) after adding yourself to that group ? |
| 16:43.50 | CHCl3 | no alsa or pulse user with id |
| 16:44.16 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.101.32) |
| 16:44.27 | CHCl3 | but muy user has gid=29(audio) and 44(video) |
| 16:44.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | now check the owner:group and permissions of the file it fails to write to |
| 16:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | this *might* be a genuine devuan systemd compatibility issue |
| 16:45.49 | CHCl3 | no file pointed just alsa |
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| 16:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ls -l /dev/snd/* |
| 16:47.20 | CHCl3 | trying to run mocp and get Running the server... Trying JACK... Trying ALSA... FATAL_ERROR: Can't open pid file for writing: Access denied FATAL_ERROR: Server exited! |
| 16:48.01 | fsmithred | how did you install devuan? |
| 16:49.18 | CHCl3 | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 80 sep 19 18:14 by-path |
| 16:49.18 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 6 sep 19 18:14 controlC0 |
| 16:49.18 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 sep 19 18:14 controlC1 |
| 16:49.18 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 10 sep 19 18:14 hwC0D0 |
| 16:49.18 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 5 sep 19 18:14 hwC1D0 |
| 16:49.19 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 sep 19 18:14 pcmC0D3p |
| 16:49.21 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 8 sep 19 18:14 pcmC0D7p |
| 16:49.23 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 9 sep 19 18:14 pcmC0D8p |
| 16:49.25 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 sep 19 18:14 pcmC1D0c |
| 16:49.27 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 sep 19 18:19 pcmC1D0p |
| 16:49.29 | CHCl3 | crw-rw---- 1 root audio 116, 1 sep 19 18:14 seq |
| 16:49.31 | CHCl3 | crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 sep 19 18:14 timer |
| 16:49.33 | CHCl3 | sorry too messy for the chat mayube?? |
| 16:50.05 | CHCl3 | next pasting at pastebin |
| 16:50.13 | fsmithred | pastebin or other would be better for... yup. Thanks. |
| 16:50.31 | fsmithred | looks like mine |
| 16:51.09 | fsmithred | did you do a full desktop install or start minimal and add stuff? |
| 16:51.28 | CHCl3 | I did a minimal and after that installed xfce4 |
| 16:51.50 | CHCl3 | but this trouble comes since the tty |
| 16:51.53 | fsmithred | alsa-base and alsa-utils are installed? |
| 16:51.59 | CHCl3 | yes |
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| 16:53.10 | CHCl3 | and this is my asound.conf https://pastebin.com/35QVeVmc |
| 16:54.27 | ttr | CHCl3: can you do getfacl /dev/snd/controlC0 and paste (pastebin) output |
| 16:54.52 | ttr | as I can see you have extened attr enabled and they are set on control and hw and so on |
| 16:55.32 | ttr | small chance that somethign revoked acl/perms for your other group or your user |
| 16:55.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | wut? /etc/modprobe.d/asound.conf |
| 16:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's asound.conf related to modprobe? |
| 16:56.22 | ttr | lol |
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| 16:56.59 | CHCl3 | lots of tutorials told to plce it there |
| 16:57.07 | CHCl3 | explain me please |
| 16:57.36 | ttr | CHCl3: if anythign asked you that contents sould be different |
| 16:57.42 | ttr | but in moste case you do nto need it |
| 16:58.04 | CHCl3 | ok |
| 16:58.15 | ttr | this file if have correct options will use differnt than default parameters for laoding module |
| 16:58.45 | CHCl3 | i did because in the beggining managed the hdmi audio as I had other monitor attached |
| 16:59.02 | CHCl3 | with sames results |
| 16:59.08 | ttr | while this contents is alsa specific and if you need it it should be in your home or in /etc/alsa (or something liek this - as I do not need to use custom definitions in my case) |
| 16:59.53 | CHCl3 | ok thnks looking at it |
| 17:00.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:00.09 | ttr | ^ that one :) |
| 17:00.33 | CHCl3 | that's the one yes |
| 17:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | or alternatively ~/.asoundrc (iirc) |
| 17:01.57 | CHCl3 | well i'll add the user again to the groups an try to reinstall alsa, at worst i can install a desktop from the beginning |
| 17:02.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | hhm yeah /home/jr/.asoundrc |
| 17:03.53 | CHCl3 | thnks for the lols <DocScrutinizer05> I'll try anyway not to format again in two days at least |
| 17:04.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 17:13.05 | fromport | DocScrutinizer05: i am pretty sure they will base it on "standard" debian meaning with systemd. I am trying to get a discussion going with vyos to base a new version on devuan, but so far i haven't gained much support :-( |
| 17:13.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, always the same |
| 17:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody realizes the immediate and long term disastrous impact to embedded that systemd brings |
| 17:17.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for sure don't want for example a dbus running on my router |
| 17:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | or a mysql server for logging, or whatever madness poettering might come up with next |
| 17:18.45 | fromport | https://p.bsd-unix.net/view/9a70aac4 |
| 17:19.55 | *** join/#devuan CashDash123 (~androirc@c-71-63-46-155.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 17:20.17 | CashDash123 | How do I manually install devuan? |
| 17:20.52 | CashDash123 | The documention isn't there yet? |
| 17:21.02 | fsmithred | how manual do you want to get? |
| 17:21.36 | CashDash123 | Minimal iso |
| 17:21.41 | fsmithred | there are installer isos with the normal debian-installer, there are live-isos with a live installer, you can do a debootstrap install |
| 17:22.02 | fsmithred | you mean like business-card iso? That's not on the download site, but netinstall iso is. |
| 17:22.09 | CashDash123 | How do I do this |
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| 17:22.44 | fsmithred | go to files.devuan.org, download the iso you want, either burn it to dvd or dd it to usb stick. Boot the media and run the installer. |
| 17:22.49 | golinux | CashDash123: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ |
| 17:22.49 | fsmithred | have you ever installed debian? |
| 17:23.03 | CashDash123 | No arch and gentoo though |
| 17:23.08 | fsmithred | oh |
| 17:23.33 | fsmithred | when you get to the tasksel window, uncheck everything (desktop, server, blah) except standard systemd utilities |
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| 17:26.58 | CashDash123 | I'd like to know to to use debootstrap I'm not used to using installers when installing from the terminal |
| 17:39.17 | CashDash123 | Does the installer iso contain the dhcpcd stuff I think I'll need to set up my Ethernet? |
| 17:40.35 | msiism | CashDash123: installer will configure network automatically (try to at least) |
| 17:40.54 | CashDash123 | Ok |
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| 17:41.01 | msiism | msiism: with ethernet that should work |
| 17:41.42 | msiism | CashDash123: i think there might be a debootstrap howto somehwre in the documentation section in the d1g forum |
| 17:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | CashDash123: I fianlly found "headless |
| 17:42.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | server" at https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/installing_devuan_1.0_jessie_alpha2 |
| 17:42.51 | CashDash123 | Its just when it comes to network I've done it more with systemd than say openrc |
| 17:43.40 | msiism | CashDash123: i don't understand that. i though openrc was a part of an init system |
| 17:43.59 | CashDash123 | It is an init system |
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| 17:44.48 | msiism | i see |
| 17:44.52 | CashDash123 | Im moving to hexchat one sec |
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| 17:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | my point was about whether the installer would run on console ("installing in terminal"). This might be obvious to users familiar with debian, other installers however run an x11 GUI |
| 17:49.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least per default, when available |
| 17:54.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I wouldn't even know offhand how to install any linux on a remote server I only have a console emu for - even if I knew hot ro "insert a boot CD" to that remote machine |
| 17:54.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | how to* |
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| 17:57.42 | blap | now i see some other folks have built Pale Moon for devuan |
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| 18:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | (remote machine) I *guess* you could add a kernel cmdline parameter in uBoot menu to tell installer to not use a gfx card even if there is one, and instead run ncurses on console |
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| 19:21.16 | verblendet | ah :) |
| 19:21.33 | verblendet | is this the systemd free debian channel? |
| 19:23.36 | Akuli | yes |
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| 19:27.05 | blinkdog | Could be ... what's the secret password? :-) |
| 19:27.56 | telst4r | initfreedom! |
| 19:31.11 | Lydia_K | Very good. "Fluffy bunny" would also have been acceptable. |
| 19:32.50 | blinkdog | hunter2 also |
| 19:33.00 | Akuli | passw0rd |
| 19:33.03 | Lydia_K | gasps! "That's my password! |
| 19:33.20 | Akuli | don't worry, it showed up as **** to me |
| 19:33.31 | verblendet | einhorn |
| 19:35.53 | parazyd | https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/09/msg00004.html |
| 19:37.01 | MinceR | finkle |
| 19:43.02 | MinceR | strange |
| 19:43.10 | MinceR | apparently "in its current form" means "at all" |
| 19:52.39 | unixman | Lydia_K, https://youtu.be/eYVY7n31ijw |
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| 23:15.25 | greenjeans | hi |
| 23:15.56 | golinux | howdy |
| 23:16.29 | golinux | How is the purpy hulk tonight |
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| 23:46.32 | greenjeans | ha, today i'm all green from head to toe, so imagine the Hulk nekkid.... |
| 23:51.06 | Xenguy | Is it the jeans greenjeans , or something else? |
| 23:51.09 | Xenguy | :) |
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| 23:52.21 | greenjeans | lol, nah it's the jeans, but I got a green shirt on today too, celebrating the first rain my sleepy little mountain town has seen in almost 3 months |
| 23:52.51 | Criggie | TMI |
| 23:55.48 | Xenguy | Glad to hear it |
| 23:55.57 | Xenguy | That's a longish time |
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