| 00:00.54 | blap | qemu hung again, this time during partitioner part of install. will see if it's qcow causing the problem |
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| 02:34.48 | blap | hang again |
| 02:38.17 | fsmithred | try virtualbox? |
| 02:39.14 | fsmithred | or try one of the live isos. |
| 02:43.39 | blap | nice installer btw, no muss, no fuss |
| 02:45.32 | fsmithred | which, the live? |
| 02:45.49 | blap | devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_CD.iso |
| 02:46.11 | fsmithred | oh, that's standard debian installer (slightly modified) |
| 02:46.46 | blap | been a while since i installed a system ;) |
| 02:47.05 | fsmithred | woody was scary |
| 02:47.16 | fsmithred | it's improved a lot since then |
| 02:47.58 | fsmithred | you tried with and without a mirror? |
| 02:48.25 | blap | nope, only got to mirror selection once |
| 02:49.15 | fsmithred | you're using qemu? |
| 02:49.29 | blap | yes qemu-system-x86_64 |
| 02:49.55 | fsmithred | I only use qemu to boot isos. Never did an install that way. |
| 02:51.06 | fsmithred | did you partition the virtual drive? |
| 02:53.29 | gnarface | blap: i always just make a raw disk image with dd. i never messed with that qcow stuff, but i also never bothered partitioning the guest image either... |
| 02:54.11 | fsmithred | do you at least put a filesystem on it? |
| 02:54.31 | blap | debootstrap: failure installing base packages |
| 02:54.41 | fromport | can you install a "normal" debian iso image on the same hypervisor ? |
| 02:54.43 | fsmithred | for jessie or ascii? |
| 02:55.07 | gnarface | blap: but, just to be clear, you're sure you allocated it enough ram and disk space to do it's job, right? you should need at least 64MB of ram (more if you didn't use swap) and somewhere between 400MG and 500MB of disk space, MINIMUM (roughly - for an expert minimal install, the exact size varies a bit between i386 and amd64) |
| 02:55.58 | gnarface | blap: i just wanted to touch on those points to make sure this isn't about you giving the guest 8MB of ram and 100MB of storage with no swap |
| 02:56.03 | blap | ty |
| 02:57.20 | gnarface | with Xorg, some standard system tools, a couple media players, blackbox for a window manager, and basic opengl/mesa library support, you're looking at somewhere between 1GB and 2GB of storage required |
| 02:57.46 | gnarface | a sane disk image size for a guest you aren't applying a custom image to is somewhere around 5GB i think |
| 02:58.01 | blap | 6GB atm |
| 02:58.09 | blap | 1204MB ram |
| 02:58.18 | gnarface | well, that should be fine if you didn't include the kitchen sink |
| 02:58.45 | gnarface | failure to install base packages usually IS a problem with the repo or the storage though |
| 02:58.51 | gnarface | (in one way or another) |
| 02:59.49 | gnarface | it might be worth it to try using dd to make a disk image that's just 0's and pre-formatting it with ext4 |
| 03:00.10 | blap | sha256sum checks-out |
| 03:00.50 | gnarface | oh wait |
| 03:00.54 | gnarface | the guest |
| 03:01.02 | gnarface | did you remember to NAT? |
| 03:01.25 | gnarface | with qemu i think you still need to set up networking externally on the host manually, or it won't be able to make a connection to the repos |
| 03:01.25 | blap | seems to be working, guest gets an ip and can find packages |
| 03:01.47 | gnarface | oh, hmm. ok, probably not that then. just making sure... |
| 03:02.21 | gnarface | the netinstall does contain some base packages (enough to complete installation of a headless minimal system, at least) but at some point it should be apparent when it's getting more packages from the internet |
| 03:02.29 | gnarface | as long as you're sure that happens, network is probably working |
| 03:03.16 | gnarface | but if it runs into a problem writing to the disk image (host filesystem permissions perhaps?) it'll probably just download until your 1204MB of ram is soaked up then crash |
| 03:04.33 | blap | will learn about qemu monitor and how to check status |
| 03:05.11 | gnarface | good luck. it's been a couple years since i tried this myself, i'll have to walk through it again so i can be better help next time, sorry |
| 03:06.22 | blap | sorry to bother you with non-devuan problems |
| 03:06.45 | fsmithred | trouble installing devuan is a devuan problem, even if there's nothing wrong with devuan |
| 03:09.11 | fsmithred | time for sleep. good luck. |
| 03:19.30 | blap | cheers, thanks |
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| 03:34.17 | rrq | blap: the installation CD is "not recommended" by https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-jessie-announce-052517 |
| 03:43.17 | blap | what do you recommend to install? |
| 03:43.46 | blap | minimal-live.ido? |
| 03:43.55 | blap | *iso |
| 03:44.29 | rrq | the netinstall is fine if you want to install |
| 03:46.17 | rrq | and the DVD as well, though its packages might be updated by now. |
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| 03:50.10 | blap | oh i found https://devuan.smallinnovations.nl/devuan_jessie/virtual/devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_virtual.qcow2.xz |
| 03:52.26 | rrq | might be fine. I haven't tried it myself. |
| 04:09.19 | gnarface | oh, sorry blap i assumed for some reason you WERE using the netinstall cd, and you'd made an empty qcow disk image yourself |
| 04:11.23 | gnarface | i'd recommend the netinstall image but do a minimal install from expert mode |
| 04:11.43 | gnarface | (that's what i would have tried by default on my own) |
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| 04:32.11 | rrq | blap: I trialled an netinst onto a similar qemu, and ran into the same problem, which appears to be related to the qcow format disk file. |
| 04:33.54 | rrq | I'll try the same on a raw format disk file (which has worked fine in the past) |
| 04:34.08 | blap | the virtual qcow image boots fine |
| 04:34.17 | blap | that i downloaded from above link |
| 04:34.53 | blap | memory used 75MB <3 |
| 04:36.38 | rrq | good. my problem was a kernel level timeout whilst making the ext4 file system. |
| 04:45.34 | rrq | second netinst trial on qcow2 format disk file installs fine |
| 04:57.34 | rrq | some few trials later, I have confired that qcow is no good regardless of file system. |
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| 05:22.19 | vdvevd | hello, can anyone help? I can't seem to get audio to work any more. It was working fine but now it doesn't, even if I use earphones or not. |
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| 05:34.22 | blap | hi vdvevd - maybe study alsactl |
| 05:34.28 | blap | check mixer settings too |
| 05:34.42 | vdvevd | ok will do ty for response blap |
| 05:41.39 | vdvevd | It is working now, was muted in the mixer even though the panel icon showed it was unmuted. Thanks! |
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| 05:41.52 | blap | yw :) |
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| 06:34.03 | blap | oh i forgot default qemu network won't let you ping |
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| 07:31.45 | blap | xorg driver is cirrus in qemu |
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| 07:47.13 | rrq | I use "-vga qxl" |
| 07:49.32 | gnarface | blap: i had another thought; i remembered someone saying they had problems with qcow and LVM |
| 07:49.46 | gnarface | (which i think is on by default for automatic partitioning) |
| 07:50.38 | blap | ah i turned that off, but now i'm playing with the prebaked qcow |
| 07:51.12 | blap | gonna set up a mini webserver for my host system - surprised nobody made a .deb of thttpd yet |
| 07:51.40 | blap | for easier copying of configz |
| 07:52.28 | blap | good ol Jef Poskanzer |
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| 08:10.52 | gnarface | trying it now, without qcow |
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| 08:17.42 | blap | btw it should be qcow2 |
| 08:17.59 | blap | afaik qcow is deprecated |
| 08:18.00 | gnarface | trying it this way first to test a theory |
| 08:18.07 | gnarface | but noted |
| 08:20.33 | gnarface | doing it without lvm too |
| 08:22.46 | gnarface | blap: at what point did it fail when installing the base system? somewhere towards the beginning? or at the very end? in the middle? same spot every time? random? |
| 08:24.45 | blap | random |
| 08:24.59 | blap | but i also did start with -m 1024 instead of -m 1024M |
| 08:25.24 | blap | though i can't imagine it'd start with 1MB RAM |
| 08:26.04 | gnarface | i'm using -m 1024 too, but i'm getting this error: (process:2180): GLib-WARNING **: /build/glib2.0-9u5SM4/glib2.0-2.52.3/./glib/gmem.c:483: custom memory allocation vtable not supported |
| 08:26.18 | blap | i did not see that |
| 08:26.29 | gnarface | and it's using roughly 2GB actually, including virtual memory |
| 08:27.06 | gnarface | it's at 37% of "Installing the base system" |
| 08:27.22 | blap | qemu is using 2GB? |
| 08:27.39 | gnarface | i'm wondering if maybe everything was fine and you just unluckily tried it while there were upstream network issues or some updates happening on your repo |
| 08:28.06 | blap | now i'm using about 2GB too |
| 08:28.17 | gnarface | including virtual memory, yes. top RES was only 789024 though |
| 08:28.25 | gnarface | ~800MB? |
| 08:28.28 | gnarface | right? |
| 08:28.31 | blap | yes |
| 08:29.03 | gnarface | well my disk image is 5GB so maybe that's got something to do with it |
| 08:30.28 | gnarface | i invoked qemu-system-x86_64 directly, which one did you use? |
| 08:30.34 | blap | same |
| 08:30.57 | gnarface | 53% |
| 08:31.05 | gnarface | download is going pretty slow |
| 08:31.25 | gnarface | and clearly only using 1 core, but that's my mistake i think |
| 08:31.25 | blap | you didn't do any fancy networking options, just using default? |
| 08:31.49 | gnarface | default networking, i let it auto-detect (which worked, to my surprise) |
| 08:32.09 | blap | yeah it will do all but ping, apparently |
| 08:32.19 | blap | going out |
| 08:32.32 | gnarface | but for partitioning, i skipped guided and LVM and just did a basic 2-primary-partition MSDOS partition table, mostly storage, about 400MB of swap |
| 08:32.34 | blap | which led me astray for a bit |
| 08:33.49 | gnarface | 66% |
| 08:33.51 | gnarface | still crawling |
| 08:34.10 | blap | it's a good deal slower than a local install? |
| 08:34.33 | gnarface | yes, from what i recall, but it might be upstream |
| 08:35.32 | gnarface | i might have turned virtualization extensions off in the bios too, i forget for sure |
| 08:35.40 | gnarface | that might be slowing it down |
| 08:35.44 | gnarface | or it might be the disk image |
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| 08:42.12 | gnarface | yea, it's just the repos, i'm seeing very little bandwidth usage |
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| 08:43.23 | gnarface | almost done, 96% |
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| 08:48.09 | gnarface | ok it got through the base system install |
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| 08:53.57 | blap | yeah this qcow2 drive isn't exactly a speed demon |
| 08:54.26 | gnarface | well i think it's faster than raw still |
| 08:54.27 | gnarface | i'm using raw |
| 08:54.46 | gnarface | that might be part of the speed issue, but the repos are also being slow for me at the moment |
| 09:03.13 | blap | i'm close to getting iptraf-ng to have less horrible colors |
| 09:03.28 | blap | just not showing hilighted line atm |
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| 09:18.05 | blap | what's the modern way to set my Xorg resolution? |
| 09:18.19 | gnarface | xrandr |
| 09:20.12 | gnarface | or if you're using nvidia proprietary, you can also use nvidia-settings directly |
| 09:20.14 | blap | ok that resizes, but qemu doesn't honor it |
| 09:20.39 | gnarface | interesting |
| 09:20.55 | blap | well qemu is scaling the display to the current window size |
| 09:21.12 | gnarface | oh |
| 09:21.14 | gnarface | uh |
| 09:21.57 | gnarface | hmm.. there was some situation where i noticed it was possible for xrandr to run on the local xorg by error in some disturbing way |
| 09:22.50 | gnarface | something to do with ssh maybe though |
| 09:28.41 | Hum | did you try cache=undsafe for speed reasons? |
| 09:29.13 | gnarface | woops |
| 09:29.16 | gnarface | should i? |
| 09:29.54 | gnarface | i probably missed a lot of stuff |
| 09:29.56 | Hum | if you need more speed, it can be of value, but if your host crashes, the qemu image maybe unreadable |
| 09:30.16 | gnarface | well, it's disposable, but it's also almost done now |
| 09:30.23 | gnarface | do you know if the resolution can be changed on the fly? |
| 09:31.55 | Hum | I guess, the "hardware" resolution of qemu can not be changed on the fly. If you don't use the max resolution from the qemu graphics card you can change resolution by software to the max of the qemu "hardware" |
| 09:32.18 | gnarface | ah |
| 09:32.26 | gnarface | hear that blap, you probably gotta restart qemu then |
| 09:34.59 | Hum | see man qemu-system-i386 -sdl std "if you want to use high resolution modes (>= 1280x1024x16) then youshould use this option." |
| 09:35.14 | Hum | nope -vga std (not -sdl) |
| 09:36.08 | gnarface | grrr, missing manpage on ceres |
| 09:36.27 | parazyd | Hum: -vga virtio can also work |
| 09:40.52 | Hum | parazyd: it is not in my man page |
| 09:41.06 | parazyd | that's why i'm telling you |
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| 09:43.41 | gnarface | chose grub boot loader |
| 09:44.26 | gnarface | booting ... |
| 09:44.46 | gnarface | seems to be working |
| 09:45.15 | gnarface | root |
| 09:45.18 | gnarface | woops :) |
| 09:45.40 | gnarface | yea, login works |
| 09:46.30 | blap | great! |
| 09:46.45 | blap | https://www.kraxel.org/blog/tag/virgl/ looks like there's faster graphics now |
| 09:47.03 | blap | for qemu |
| 09:47.30 | gnarface | inside the vm, according to `free` it's more or less obeying my -m setting as megabytes |
| 09:47.37 | gnarface | it seems |
| 09:47.46 | gnarface | it's got 1 full speed core |
| 09:47.55 | blap | same here |
| 09:47.59 | gnarface | disk image i/o is really slow though |
| 09:48.25 | gnarface | i'm sure there's a way around that |
| 09:48.27 | blap | i wonder what -enable-kvm does |
| 09:48.45 | gnarface | shuts down clean |
| 09:49.19 | blap | ++ |
| 09:49.27 | gnarface | --help says "enable KVM full virtualization support" |
| 09:49.28 | parazyd | always -enable-kvm |
| 09:49.36 | gnarface | hardware support |
| 09:49.38 | gnarface | right? |
| 09:49.42 | blap | do i need a special kernel for kvm? |
| 09:49.43 | parazyd | yep |
| 09:49.43 | blap | on the host |
| 09:49.45 | parazyd | blap: no |
| 09:49.52 | gnarface | that's probably why it's so slow for me |
| 09:49.57 | gnarface | default debian kernel has kvm enabled |
| 09:50.25 | gnarface | but i didn't pass -enable-kvm |
| 09:50.46 | blap | i'v ebeen updating fonts for over an hour in the guest |
| 09:57.41 | blap | ok done |
| 09:57.48 | blap | Could not access KVM kernel module: No such file or directory |
| 09:57.55 | blap | lsmod shows kvm loaded |
| 09:59.57 | gnarface | you need permission to /dev/kvm |
| 10:00.03 | gnarface | group kvm by default |
| 10:00.08 | gnarface | you can add your self to it |
| 10:00.13 | gnarface | or just run qemu as root |
| 10:00.30 | blap | ah i have no /dev/kvm |
| 10:00.37 | gnarface | seems much faster |
| 10:03.45 | Hum | parazyd: wich devuan version do you use? qemu needs to be 2.6 imho, I have 2.1.2 |
| 10:04.05 | parazyd | i have qemu 2.10.0 |
| 10:04.13 | gnarface | blap: i had kvm and kvm_amd loaded, along with irqbypass |
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| 10:06.56 | blap | modprobe kvm-intel / operation not supported |
| 10:08.53 | Hum | blap: modprobe -v kvm-intel? |
| 10:09.31 | blap | it tries to insmod kvm-intel.ko but says not supported |
| 10:09.33 | gnarface | does require motherboard support, doesn't it? |
| 10:09.40 | gnarface | might be off in the bios... |
| 10:09.47 | blap | /proc/cpuinfo shows it has vmx (intel i7) |
| 10:11.30 | blap | i'll fix if possible, bbl |
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| 10:52.49 | blap | well, no option in bios |
| 10:52.56 | blap | but i found a hacked bios |
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| 10:55.31 | blap | the biosmods page is gone and the archive.org page has disappeared |
| 10:55.48 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 11:01.23 | blap | yeah the manufacturer sold this thing as a power user notebook and locked the virtualization |
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| 11:02.16 | djph | blap: oh, HP? |
| 11:02.23 | blap | clevo |
| 11:02.38 | djph | ... never heard of them ... :/ sounds as evil as HP though |
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| 11:17.17 | blap | coolness, flashrom tool (flashrom -L) |
| 11:18.13 | blap | http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/bios/ |
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| 11:34.02 | blap | "Enable Intel CPU VT function support." looks like paydirt |
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| 13:15.29 | blap | here goes nuthin... |
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| 13:37.39 | blap | success! kvm enabled |
| 13:38.20 | gnu_srs1 | blap: Did you flash a modified bios? |
| 13:38.51 | blap | no i couldn't find it anywhere |
| 13:38.59 | blap | but the newest one from mfgr enabled kvm |
| 13:39.17 | gnu_srs1 | nice, congrats :) |
| 13:39.19 | blap | night and day speed difference in qemu |
| 13:44.11 | fsmithred | fast as a PII without kvm |
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| 13:46.03 | blap | looks like i need this to resize guest X to window size https://www.spice-space.org/page/Building_Instructions |
| 13:46.34 | parazyd | fsmithred: lol |
| 13:47.33 | fsmithred | pretty sure that's accurate |
| 13:47.54 | fsmithred | seem to recall reading it somewhere |
| 13:51.14 | fsmithred | blap, what does spice do that ssh won't do? |
| 13:51.28 | blap | still learning |
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| 13:51.37 | blap | maybe i don't want it |
| 13:51.52 | fsmithred | I run VMs remotely all the time. ssh -X |
| 13:52.02 | fsmithred | then I either run virtualbox or qemu |
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| 13:52.19 | fsmithred | so I don't have to get up from my desk |
| 13:52.50 | blap | yeah i just need to resize the window to match the guest X resolution - maybe wmctrl will fix |
| 13:55.19 | fsmithred | I don't know much about messing with display resolution in qemu. I grab the corner of the window and drag it to the size I want. |
| 13:55.33 | fsmithred | but that doesn't change the resolution - it magnifies to fit the window |
| 13:59.07 | blap | it hurts font rendering to scale the window |
| 14:00.02 | fsmithred | yeah, it's pretty obvious. lol. |
| 14:00.49 | fsmithred | well, keep reading. I made my window full screen and then switched display resolution in the running vm to match screen size (1280x1024) |
| 14:00.53 | fsmithred | it's very bad |
| 14:01.21 | fsmithred | and I don't know how to get rid of it |
| 14:01.49 | fsmithred | ok, managed to hit the shutdown button |
| 14:03.47 | fsmithred | gotta go. bbl. |
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| 14:16.35 | blap | ttyl |
| 14:16.56 | blap | there's a qemuctl package but it can't connect to the qemu instance |
| 14:17.34 | blap | i can also resize the window with this cmd |
| 14:17.38 | blap | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:17.52 | blap | but so far I'm just guessing at the right resolution including borders |
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| 14:21.48 | blap | host needs libvirt-daemon and related pckgs |
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| 14:45.22 | gnu_srs1 | blap: what about xrandr? |
| 14:45.31 | blap | devuan apt-file update broken - "Ignoring source without Contents File: |
| 14:45.49 | blap | xrandr lets me resize guest X size, but this doesn't set qemu's window to the appropriate size |
| 14:47.46 | blap | i FOUND IT |
| 14:47.54 | blap | wmctrl -r qemu-system-x86_64.qemu-system-x86_64 -e '0,30,30,1279,799' -x |
| 14:48.48 | blap | you need to set xrandr dimensions -1 |
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| 14:54.13 | blap | at least under fluxbox wm |
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| 15:16.30 | Hum | blap: apt-file update doesn't work for me, too. Do you file a bug? Should I? |
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| 15:41.59 | golinux | Hum: Does this help answer your question? https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=apt-file |
| 15:46.30 | kwmiebach | Good news - the webmin project has merged devuan support: https://github.com/webmin/webmin/pull/628 which means the next deb file they release should install on devuan. |
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| 16:02.50 | si\ver_ | Hello, I recently upgraded from debian jessie to debian stretch but I'm not too happy with it. Is it possible to switch to devuan without a reload? |
| 16:07.04 | golinux | si\ver_: From jessie yes. From stretch maybe but probably not. The transfer was only meant to work with wheezy and jessie. |
| 16:07.49 | golinux | You can always try. If it fails go to plan B |
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| 16:30.19 | si\ver_ | golinux: well, it seems to be working. We'll see if it survives a reboot in a moment. |
| 16:36.57 | si\ver_ | It's alive after a reboot. So that's nice. |
| 16:38.38 | Hum | golinux: But the workflow is broken, if the solution for a bug is not in the bugtracker |
| 16:40.10 | golinux | Ping KatolaZ |
| 16:42.50 | Hum | golinux, KatolaZ: I don't want to annoy anyone, I just like the machinery of bureaucracy in debian. If there is a bug in debian, most of the time it is in the bug tracker and there is an explanation, why, why not or whatever. |
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| 16:55.20 | jelly | Hum: and if anyone has a workaround, it's easy to just send a mail and it's documented |
| 16:55.57 | jelly | so you have bugs that are sometimes open for years, but at least you can find a workaround |
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| 17:28.23 | Hum | the bug is filed under the package amprolla, not apt-file |
| 17:28.36 | Hum | #34 |
| 17:32.45 | golinux | That makes sense. |
| 17:35.55 | Hum | now I sent a bug report for apt-file linking to the bugs im amprolla and the bug @apt-file can be closed. But then it should be easy to find the bug in the bugDB |
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| 18:20.37 | halp | Hello, does somebody know if Devuan supports the HP 250 G5 (dualboot with windows)? |
| 18:22.56 | si\ver_ | halp: it should work fine |
| 18:23.16 | si\ver_ | Do you know how to prepare a system for dual boot? |
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| 18:26.55 | halp | ok thaks. i think so, first shrink partition in windows and then install devuan. |
| 18:27.17 | si\ver_ | Yep, that should do it. |
| 18:27.32 | si\ver_ | Grub should find windows and you'll be on your way. |
| 18:29.12 | halp | great, goodbye :D |
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| 18:36.58 | timeless | does anyone have a preferred way for installing apt updates to a system that needs to use a socks proxy for internet access? |
| 18:37.22 | timeless | for most things, tsocks works fine. but elasticsearch's repository is https only, and tsocks can't handle that |
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| 18:40.50 | si\ver_ | mirror the repo |
| 18:41.29 | si\ver_ | or remove the source definition and install the new es manually |
| 18:42.55 | timeless | tries polipo |
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| 19:39.13 | Walex | consider also Privoxy |
| 19:40.22 | MinceR | consider Phlebas |
| 19:41.33 | Walex | as a proxy! :-) |
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| 20:45.52 | greenjeans | I have my purpy pants on today, Devuan-Hulk SQUASH! squash squash! |
| 20:49.12 | greenjeans | https://sourceforge.net/projects/vuu-do/files/Openbox/64-maximal/ |
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| 20:49.27 | greenjeans | New Vuu-do 64 openbox maximal |
| 20:49.31 | greenjeans | 1.0.3 |
| 20:49.40 | greenjeans | best vuu-do yet |
| 20:50.40 | greenjeans | I squashed it just this morning ;) |
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| 21:23.10 | golinux | greenjeans: Nice to see purpy Devuan hulk back! |
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| 21:29.00 | greenjeans | hi golinux, how's my little buddy, still keeping him at bay? |
| 21:29.44 | fsmithred | new refractainstaller coming soon |
| 21:29.49 | greenjeans | Can't wait until Devuan releases ascii and I can make Vuu-do Armadillo, gonna make some awesome wallpaper, lol! |
| 21:30.17 | greenjeans | @ FSR: sweet! |
| 21:30.27 | fsmithred | maybe you shouldn't wait |
| 21:30.42 | fsmithred | openbox in ascii works well |
| 21:30.57 | greenjeans | What's goona be new in new Refracta-Installer? |
| 21:31.12 | fsmithred | cli installer can do uefi or bios |
| 21:31.25 | fsmithred | and I just added the no_format option to same |
| 21:31.45 | fsmithred | about to test that |
| 21:32.11 | greenjeans | I have a suggestion about Refracta2usb, let me collect my thoughts and notes and i'll message you about it |
| 21:32.19 | golinux | greenjeans: No sign of it. |
| 21:32.29 | fsmithred | cool, thanks. |
| 21:32.35 | greenjeans | bummer golinux, did you get some pics? |
| 21:32.50 | golinux | never did |
| 21:33.49 | golinux | I could use an ID on something though. give me a minute and I'll pm |
| 21:33.53 | greenjeans | @ FSR: I have been noticing that ascii seems to be coming along, but i'm committed to sticking with stable, plenty of i's to dot and t's to cross yet |
| 21:34.51 | greenjeans | plus last attempt actually removed some programs from the maximals, I assume because there was no ascii version yet |
| 21:35.04 | greenjeans | Exaile was a notable one |
| 21:35.07 | fsmithred | start fresh rather than upgrade |
| 21:35.34 | greenjeans | but that may be due to buggy gtk3, and others may be waiting for de-systemd'ing |
| 21:35.53 | fsmithred | some things are ugly in ascii because of that |
| 21:35.59 | greenjeans | I figured |
| 21:36.11 | fsmithred | and I don't just mean aesthetically ugly |
| 21:36.23 | greenjeans | I will wait until there's a beta at least, and then build from scratch |
| 21:36.32 | fsmithred | no borders on buttons and squashed menus are just plain stupid. |
| 21:36.38 | greenjeans | yikes |
| 21:36.41 | greenjeans | seriously? |
| 21:36.47 | fsmithred | you should be doing debootstrap installs |
| 21:36.53 | fsmithred | mr. minimalist |
| 21:37.30 | fsmithred | yeah, the words on the menu bar of xfce-terminal are all squashed together |
| 21:38.07 | greenjeans | Maybe it's time for Devuan to consider Openbox for default instead of Xfce |
| 21:38.16 | fsmithred | lol |
| 21:38.32 | fsmithred | I'm thinking about it for refracta, but golinux would get mad. |
| 21:38.32 | MinceR | fvwm |
| 21:38.33 | greenjeans | seriously, check out that iso I just uploaded |
| 21:39.18 | greenjeans | so many new tools for openbox, better integration into the desktop |
| 21:39.29 | fsmithred | cool |
| 21:39.56 | greenjeans | It takes the best of mate, xfce, lxde etc, and leaves the worst |
| 21:40.22 | greenjeans | I won't commit blasphemy and call it a DE yet........yet.... |
| 21:40.28 | greenjeans | lol |
| 21:40.41 | fsmithred | VDE |
| 21:40.56 | timeless | Walex: thanks. fwiw polipo worked fine |
| 21:40.56 | greenjeans | but that's the idea, it's the cushiest Openbox i've ever used but I haven't tried them all |
| 21:41.41 | timeless | Walex: the problem w/ privoxy is that i'd have to figure out how to safely configure it, and i'd have to put it on the edge of my network |
| 21:42.02 | greenjeans | Refracta should be Openbox IMO, you should at least roll one up |
| 21:42.28 | greenjeans | VDE, I like it! |
| 21:42.28 | timeless | whereas i can w/ polipo, i can put the proxy on the internal node (listening to localhost by default) and use ssh -D to connect to the edge node... |
| 21:42.33 | greenjeans | lets go with that |
| 21:42.51 | fsmithred | I did roll one up. With eudev and openrc. |
| 21:43.25 | greenjeans | Oh that's right, I remember you mentioning it now, have a direct link handy for my lazy self? |
| 21:44.06 | fsmithred | http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/experimental/ascii_oblx_eudv_oprc-20170813_2222.iso |
| 21:44.11 | golinux | greenjeans: You have a pm when you finish here |
| 21:44.42 | golinux | didn't want to go more OT in this channel |
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| 21:46.48 | greenjeans | got it FSR, downloading now |
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| 22:29.01 | blap | i made a list of my insstalled packages on the debian system and manually removed packages with 'systemd' in the name. can i safely pipe that list to apt-get install under devuan? |
| 22:29.06 | blap | (morning folks) |
| 22:30.09 | fsmithred | did you use dpkg --get-selections to make the list? |
| 22:31.13 | blap | hm no dpkg -l |
| 22:31.17 | fsmithred | ok |
| 22:31.58 | fsmithred | it might work, but it might be messy. Most of the packages in the list are normally installed as deps of other packages. |
| 22:33.17 | fsmithred | you could pick out the packages you recognize and want and install those, then make a new package list and compare it to the old to see what's missing. |
| 22:34.31 | blap | about 2k packages though |
| 22:34.41 | fsmithred | lol, yeah I know |
| 22:34.49 | blap | i'll backup the .qcow first |
| 22:34.55 | fsmithred | I use a script to compare two package lists |
| 22:35.15 | fsmithred | yeah, if you can do that, then just shotgun it and see what happens. |
| 22:35.30 | blap | this qemu kvm thing starts up X faster than my host does |
| 22:35.37 | fsmithred | lol |
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| 22:40.15 | blap | do you know how to list installed packages sorted by installation date? |
| 22:41.27 | fsmithred | no |
| 22:42.03 | fsmithred | they're in /var/log/apt/history.log by date |
| 22:42.22 | blap | cool ty |
| 22:42.54 | blap | also /var/log/dpkg.log |
| 22:45.09 | fsmithred | wow, lot more detail there |
| 22:46.32 | blap | this is odd, i set runlevel to 3 in /etc/inittab and am still booting into X |
| 22:47.48 | fsmithred | correct |
| 22:47.56 | fsmithred | unless you're using refracta |
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| 22:48.18 | blap | forgot what i installed that changed that |
| 22:48.19 | fsmithred | default in debian and devuan is that 2-5 are the same |
| 22:48.34 | blap | how can i boot to console login again? |
| 22:48.46 | fsmithred | get rid of the display manager, or... |
| 22:48.55 | fsmithred | configure runlevel 3 to stop the display manager |
| 22:49.13 | fsmithred | sysv-rc-conf is an easy way to do it. update-rc.d is the command-line way to do it |
| 22:50.15 | blap | righto ty |
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| 23:00.43 | e3d3 | I'm reading devian.org and wonder why there are allready so many distro's based on Devuan ? |
| 23:01.17 | fsmithred | because devuan attracts people who like to play? |
| 23:01.55 | si\ver_ | After playing with it a bit, I upgraded a systemd debian squeeze machine to devuan ascii. :D |
| 23:01.59 | fsmithred | some of them existed before devuan and were debian based |
| 23:02.09 | e3d3 | fsmithred: hmm, not really convincing |
| 23:02.10 | fsmithred | cool |
| 23:02.22 | si\ver_ | had to reinstall all my X input drivers for some reason. systemd did not want to uninstall nicely. |
| 23:02.30 | fsmithred | e3d3, what kind of answer are you looking for? |
| 23:02.34 | blap | interesting https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/Ceres-without-Systemd |
| 23:02.44 | e3d3 | a convincing ? :) |
| 23:03.10 | si\ver_ | I'm on board for "fewer moving parts" |
| 23:03.25 | fsmithred | the number pales in comparison to the number of ubuntu re-spins |
| 23:04.33 | golinux | si\ver_: there was no systemd in squeeze. That happened in wheezy |
| 23:05.11 | si\ver_ | Sorry, wrong one. The one after jessie |
| 23:05.15 | si\ver_ | stretch? |
| 23:05.25 | fsmithred | yeah, stretch |
| 23:05.36 | e3d3 | fsmithred: I ask because it also could be that Devuan is not at all what people like, just a guess. Only with Puppy Linux did I saw so many derivates after the first one. Guess that was also because people like to 'play' |
| 23:05.37 | fsmithred | I totally missed the squeeze. |
| 23:06.09 | fsmithred | the people making these derivatives love devuan |
| 23:06.36 | e3d3 | thats is nice to hear |
| 23:06.43 | e3d3 | I love love |
| 23:06.55 | fsmithred | brb |
| 23:08.07 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@171.85-84-183.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 23:08.10 | aitor | hi |
| 23:08.29 | golinux | e3d3: On dev1galaxy the derivatives section is about the most active: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=9 |
| 23:08.52 | golinux | aitor: Haven't see you much lately |
| 23:08.54 | aitor | what means brb? |
| 23:09.06 | golinux | be right back |
| 23:09.07 | e3d3 | be right back |
| 23:09.07 | blap | looks like i have quite a few packages to port |
| 23:09.28 | aitor | barrabás? |
| 23:09.34 | e3d3 | golinux: thanks. |
| 23:10.16 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@86.53.50.178) |
| 23:10.36 | blap | fdisk, rar |
| 23:10.37 | e3d3 | fsmithred: So for my unnecessary question, it is answered right above the derivate-list: When reviewing Devuan we do recommend taking derivatives in consideration: they harness the power of our base distribution targeting it at specific usage and this is exactly what we mean to achieve with Devuan. |
| 23:10.46 | blap | no rar, really? |
| 23:10.54 | e3d3 | fsmithred: My excuses |
| 23:12.21 | fsmithred | rar/unrar is non-free, isn't it? |
| 23:12.30 | blap | oh duh |
| 23:13.12 | fsmithred | e3d3, have you tried devuan? |
| 23:13.37 | e3d3 | fsmithred: Not yet, I just downloaded the net-install |
| 23:14.06 | fsmithred | if you're a long time debian user, it will look and act like the debian you know. |
| 23:14.22 | fsmithred | 'cause it mostly is |
| 23:14.42 | golinux | e3d3: Refracta has been around for a long time. So has Exe GNU/Linux |
| 23:14.55 | e3d3 | I started Linux with debian-distro's, went to Arch and since systemd again distrohopping |
| 23:15.05 | golinux | Much longer than Devuan |
| 23:16.12 | e3d3 | golinux: I never heard from Refracta, or Exe GNU/Linux, any idea why it is 'censored' |
| 23:16.21 | fsmithred | censored? |
| 23:16.25 | fsmithred | hang on... |
| 23:16.59 | greenjeans | @ e3d3: This systemd garbage is only the latest, dconf and pulseaudio come to mind as more garbageware that's been around a while, many of us have been chomping at the bit for something better, thus lots of derivatives already for Devuan |
| 23:17.27 | e3d3 | how old is Devuan, according to distrowatch.com it forked in 2015 |
| 23:17.46 | golinux | They are mentioned all over the FDN |
| 23:18.18 | fsmithred | https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta |
| 23:18.19 | e3d3 | FDN = ? |
| 23:18.26 | golinux | November 2014 |
| 23:18.27 | fsmithred | forums.debian.net |
| 23:18.39 | golinux | forums.debian.net |
| 23:19.02 | golinux | https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ |
| 23:19.09 | fsmithred | there wasn't a devuan release until 2015 (valentine iso) |
| 23:19.40 | aitor | fsmithred: i'm adding d-i to live-sdk |
| 23:19.47 | fsmithred | that link I posted is a good review of refracta |
| 23:19.54 | fsmithred | cool, aitor. Thanks. |
| 23:20.18 | golinux | But the intention started before obviously. It wasn't a spontaneous generation in February. |
| 23:20.38 | golinux | Our three-year anniversary is coming up. |
| 23:21.38 | Artemis3 | Devuan 2.0 release when? :3 |
| 23:22.18 | blap | https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/ffmpeg you know what's the issue with ffmpeg missing? |
| 23:23.50 | blap | jaromil: ? |
| 23:23.59 | fsmithred | blap - libav-tools |
| 23:24.08 | fsmithred | avconv is the command |
| 23:24.30 | fsmithred | I think ffmpeg is back in ascii/stretch |
| 23:24.50 | fsmithred | have to go to the kitchen. back in a little while. |
| 23:25.28 | blap | looks like i might want to move to ascii/stretch |
| 23:26.30 | blap | ah maybe not |
| 23:26.43 | e3d3 | Am I right that you advise to read about Devuan derivates (e.g. on dev1galaxy forum) before instead of tweaking an empty Devuan net-install ? |
| 23:26.47 | si\ver_ | I'm on ascii. Seems pretty ok. |
| 23:27.59 | blap | ty. this is very hepful https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=ascii |
| 23:32.10 | e3d3 | (I prefer i3 WM without desktop) |
| 23:36.45 | e3d3 | I'm gonna try the net-install, if its gets to messy I'll try a derivate. Thanks all. |
| 23:36.49 | *** part/#devuan e3d3 (~user@ip503ce2af.speed.planet.nl) |
| 23:52.29 | gnarface | hmm, i thought the whole ffmpeg/avconv fiasco was during wheezy. i thought debian moved it back to ffmpeg again starting with jessie |
| 23:53.08 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan (~Thunderbi@office.centurion.net.nz) |