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| 02:03.07 | omnipotentduo | quiet as a mouse in here tonight |
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| 02:45.37 | gnarface | no news is good news? |
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| 04:03.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | some love it that way |
| 04:03.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | not me |
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| 09:44.49 | DusXMT | Hmmm... The power manager button in Mate is a yellow exclamation mark... and it doesn't appear to know when the cable is in and when out... and yet it does know, if I open the settings |
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| 12:08.45 | Centurion_Dan | DusXMT: probably because mate power manager has been infected by that systemd virus... |
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| 12:42.36 | DusXMT | Centurion_Dan: It's likely. It can read the values, it even reports how much the battery is charged, but it doesn't know if it's charging or not, even though the information is there... |
| 12:42.54 | DusXMT | Perhaps what happened is that there was a change in the interface of upower |
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| 14:18.30 | fugitive | guys, how to get flash player working? :) |
| 14:18.33 | fugitive | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.33 | fugitive | ii flashplugin-nonfree |
| 14:18.33 | fugitive | ii pepperflashplugin-nonfree |
| 14:19.21 | gnarface | look in about:plugins see if it's enabled |
| 14:19.27 | Evilham | that's EOL :-D (j.k.) |
| 14:19.29 | gnarface | i don't know what pepperflash is |
| 14:19.40 | gnarface | i advise against using flash too |
| 14:19.57 | gnarface | but it should work |
| 14:19.59 | fugitive | hah Evilham :D let me see :) |
| 14:20.11 | gnarface | pepperflash may conflict for all i know |
| 14:20.13 | fugitive | yea i know.. i don't like it either.. but have to use it |
| 14:20.24 | Evilham | sometimes there's no choice |
| 14:20.32 | Evilham | did you check this already? https://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer |
| 14:20.44 | Evilham | trying to update and so on |
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| 14:21.33 | fugitive | $ update-flashplugin-nonfree --install |
| 14:21.33 | fugitive | -bash: update-flashplugin-nonfree: command not found |
| 14:21.39 | fugitive | this doesn't work :/ |
| 14:21.50 | gnarface | did you check about:plugins? |
| 14:21.50 | fugitive | and, yh, it is not enabled in ffox |
| 14:21.58 | gnarface | well just enable it |
| 14:22.36 | gnarface | you can go to about:addons->plugins i guess |
| 14:22.41 | fugitive | i can't ... i don't see any option to enable it |
| 14:22.53 | fugitive | i have only this : OpenH264 Video Codec provided by Cisco Systems, Inc. |
| 14:22.58 | gnarface | disable that |
| 14:23.20 | fugitive | yea it is |
| 14:23.41 | gnarface | you can go to tools->add ons, too |
| 14:23.46 | fugitive | maybe some shared lib needs to be symlinked.. somewhere.. ? |
| 14:23.46 | gnarface | then go to the plugins tab |
| 14:23.51 | gnarface | find the pulldown on the right |
| 14:23.56 | fsmithred | try reinstalling flash |
| 14:24.03 | fsmithred | it shouldn't need any setup |
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| 14:24.18 | gnarface | it might be disabled by default still |
| 14:24.21 | fsmithred | pepperflash is for chromium |
| 14:24.21 | fugitive | let see.. |
| 14:24.23 | gnarface | in firefox itself, is what i'm saying |
| 14:25.05 | fugitive | you know what might be a problem... |
| 14:25.14 | fugitive | HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found |
| 14:25.14 | fugitive | 2017-08-08 16:24:56 ERROR 404: Not Found. |
| 14:25.14 | fugitive | ERROR: wget failed to download https://fpdownload.adobe.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/24.0.0.186/flash_player_npapi_linux.x86_64.tar.gz |
| 14:25.14 | fugitive | More information might be available at: |
| 14:25.14 | fugitive | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:25.22 | gnarface | oh hmm |
| 14:25.34 | fugitive | they removed repo |
| 14:25.41 | gnarface | do you have the ca-certificates package installed? that just happened to me |
| 14:25.56 | fugitive | one sec.. url is bit weird.. |
| 14:25.57 | gnarface | i couldn't wget anything with a https url |
| 14:25.59 | debdog | just downloads the installer and extracts the .so file |
| 14:26.20 | OxFEEDBACC | what the fun :-))))))))))))))))) to all who have helped me so much... the thing with the 64-bit tablet with 32-bit-only UEFI... i'm finally in the installer :-D |
| 14:26.20 | gnarface | yea it's not hard to manually install |
| 14:26.24 | gnarface | it's a single file |
| 14:26.45 | gnarface | hooraay, what'd it take OxFEEDBACC?? |
| 14:26.55 | gnarface | custom build? |
| 14:27.12 | fsmithred | congrats OxFEEDBACC |
| 14:28.10 | fugitive | gnarface , yea i have ca-certs installed |
| 14:28.25 | OxFEEDBACC | gnarface, fsmithred, i actually manually built and configured grub... seemed to be the easiest... though i had to take some hurdles... |
| 14:28.26 | fugitive | look, when i try manually to dload: |
| 14:29.01 | OxFEEDBACC | grub config isn't so good documented... but finally it works... oh yes, and i used refind to "bootstrap" grub... |
| 14:29.16 | fugitive | $ curl -o test.tar.gz https://fpdownload.adobe.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/24.0.0.186/flash_player_npapi_linux.x86_64.tar.gz |
| 14:29.21 | fugitive | $ file test.tar.gz |
| 14:29.22 | fugitive | test.tar.gz: HTML document, ASCII text |
| 14:29.31 | fugitive | and it makes a sense, coz : 2017-08-08 16:28:45 ERROR 404: Not Found. |
| 14:29.39 | OxFEEDBACC | grrrmpf... "incorrect cd-rom detected"... |
| 14:29.55 | fugitive | stupid adobe... |
| 14:31.26 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah, connected the optical... then it works... |
| 14:31.45 | fugitive | i am dloading manually tarball, will see.. |
| 14:42.58 | fugitive | fixed.. fckin crap.. :)) |
| 14:45.57 | fugitive | thanks ppl :) |
| 14:46.06 | Evilham | haha :) |
| 14:46.17 | Evilham | very good that you fixed it |
| 14:47.16 | fugitive | yea, downlaod tar, copy that lib, update alternatives, and done |
| 14:47.38 | Evilham | ah... hopefully you'll be able to not use flash soon |
| 14:49.37 | fugitive | :)) |
| 14:49.41 | OxFEEDBACC | "GRUB installation failed --- The 'grub-efi-ia32' package failed to install into /target/. ..." |
| 14:49.56 | OxFEEDBACC | what is /target/ in that context? |
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| 14:53.15 | gnarface | literally /target/ somewhere in the tmp working directory of the installer |
| 14:53.20 | gnarface | might be like /mnt/target or something |
| 14:53.33 | gnarface | anyway it's just the root directory of the install |
| 14:53.49 | gnarface | you can alt-f4 and mount it manually to mess with it, in theory |
| 14:54.26 | OxFEEDBACC | okay... |
| 14:54.49 | OxFEEDBACC | well, rebooted already... now trying to manually start it through grub's shell |
| 14:59.34 | OxFEEDBACC | boots... |
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| 15:01.21 | OxFEEDBACC | but hangs somewhere... |
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| 15:10.14 | fugitive | OxFEEDBACC , what you're trying to do? i'm curious .. :) |
| 15:10.58 | aitor | OxFEEDBACC: the target is the hard disk where you are installing the system |
| 15:11.16 | OxFEEDBACC | fugitive, i want to run devuan on a tablet... it's UEFI without legacy boot support, and while the actual system is 64-bit, the EFI firmware is only 32-bit... |
| 15:13.07 | fugitive | well.. i am waiting my uart to arrive so i could test some arm boards |
| 15:13.45 | OxFEEDBACC | mine is an x86 tablet... |
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| 16:02.46 | OxFEEDBACC | it hangs after detecting the camera at usb 1-4... is there a kernel command line parameter to inhibit touching that device? |
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| 16:08.50 | gnarface | blacklist the driver maybe? |
| 16:09.51 | OxFEEDBACC | which driver, i may ask ;-) |
| 16:09.59 | OxFEEDBACC | i'm not a kernel wizard, too... |
| 16:10.46 | gnarface | i've no idea which driver, you'll have to look it up by the camera model |
| 16:11.10 | OxFEEDBACC | aye, sir |
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| 16:12.24 | OxFEEDBACC | wow... it still reacts on removing and plugging in the USB stick... |
| 16:12.31 | OxFEEDBACC | can i exploit that? |
| 16:12.38 | gnarface | maybe? |
| 16:12.42 | OxFEEDBACC | ctrl-c doesn't work there, obviously... |
| 16:12.47 | gnarface | maybe it's not really hung when it hits the camera? |
| 16:13.22 | gnarface | i've seen problems before with boot scripts going awry in ways that leave you trapped but the computer isn't actually frozen |
| 16:14.17 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah, but i can't switch terminals... and it said just some lines above "/bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off"... i think i don't have a bunch of VTs... |
| 16:14.23 | gnarface | you could also maybe just blacklist uvcvideo or videodev or v4l2_common (or all of the above) |
| 16:14.53 | gnarface | ctrl+alt+f2, ctrl+alt+f3, ctrl+alt+f4, nothing? |
| 16:15.01 | OxFEEDBACC | okay, do you have a hint where i put that? will there be an /etc/blacklist or some such? |
| 16:15.24 | OxFEEDBACC | no, just this one screen... |
| 16:15.37 | gnarface | in /etc/modprobe.d there are *.conf files |
| 16:15.50 | gnarface | i recommend you make your own intead of editing the ones there already |
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| 16:16.16 | gnarface | you can copy the format of the blacklist.conf already there |
| 16:16.20 | gnarface | but it's nothing complex |
| 16:16.29 | gnarface | literally just "blacklist [module name]" |
| 16:16.29 | OxFEEDBACC | k... |
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| 16:16.31 | gnarface | on individual lines |
| 16:16.45 | OxFEEDBACC | with wildcards? |
| 16:16.50 | gnarface | no |
| 16:17.03 | OxFEEDBACC | well, i can check if i find something in syslog to determine a driver... |
| 16:17.28 | gnarface | usually there is some sort of device name near where it's detected in the output |
| 16:17.30 | gnarface | not always |
| 16:17.46 | OxFEEDBACC | it's before syslog :-/ |
| 16:18.45 | OxFEEDBACC | v4l doesn't effect the gfx driver, does it? |
| 16:20.19 | gnarface | is "quiet" on the kernel command-line? |
| 16:20.46 | gnarface | v4l? probably not but i'm not 100% sure... |
| 16:21.00 | gnarface | should mostly be fore video inputs not outputs |
| 16:21.10 | gnarface | but the camera might use v4l or uvcvideo i think |
| 16:21.14 | gnarface | in addition to usb |
| 16:21.33 | gnarface | in theory you could just blacklist all the usb stuff even, but that might blacklist too much |
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| 16:33.45 | OxFEEDBACC | no quiet on the command line ... i never understood what it is for, actually... |
| 16:34.53 | OxFEEDBACC | i've put all 3 of your suggestions into a blacklist.conf.... the question now is just, does the kernel (or modprobe) respect all files in that directory? or do i have to register it somewhere? |
| 16:35.39 | OxFEEDBACC | btw, except usb 1-4 and the manufacturer/vendor (Alcor Micro) there's no hint on what device that is... |
| 16:36.26 | OxFEEDBACC | i can't just blacklist all usb-things... oh, yes, it said usb-xhid (or whatever that reads... can |
| 16:37.09 | OxFEEDBACC | can't just check back, because the blanker kicked in and the keyboard is obviously non-functional... (a chance for VTs working later...) |
| 16:37.36 | OxFEEDBACC | though the keyboard was listed before the cam, on usb 1-2... |
| 16:39.14 | OxFEEDBACC | *xhci_hcd |
| 16:40.39 | OxFEEDBACC | oh, yes, and there is vendor=058f, product=5608 ... why did i miss it before? |
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| 17:05.45 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: yea the module utils just obey files in that directory as long as they end in .conf |
| 17:06.19 | OxFEEDBACC | okay... |
| 17:06.46 | OxFEEDBACC | am just trying to follow this approach: https://projectgus.com/2014/09/blacklisting-a-single-usb-device-from-linux/ |
| 17:07.35 | OxFEEDBACC | just adding that in the final /etc is too late... extracted the initrd, and am wondering if i can put it back together to a working state... |
| 17:07.48 | OxFEEDBACC | sings humpty dumpty ... |
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| 17:10.25 | gnarface | oh hmm |
| 17:10.32 | gnarface | update-initrd.img? |
| 17:10.44 | gnarface | no it's update-initramfs |
| 17:11.15 | OxFEEDBACC | will it include that file/dir? /etc/udev/rules.d is not in the initramfs... |
| 17:11.21 | gnarface | i think it's also possible to blacklist modules by kernel command-line, but i am not sure of the syntax |
| 17:11.24 | OxFEEDBACC | but i guess that can be configured... |
| 17:11.52 | gnarface | udev rules are something different, that's runtime stuff |
| 17:12.00 | gnarface | we were in /etc/modprobe.d |
| 17:15.26 | OxFEEDBACC | that can't be it... original initrd 14889957, the repackaged one (adding 1 small rule file and the dir) 83992411 bytes... |
| 17:16.10 | gnarface | oh uh, probably the config defaulted to all modules but at install you chose targeted? |
| 17:16.45 | OxFEEDBACC | i didn't choose anything, afaict... |
| 17:16.52 | OxFEEDBACC | regarding that, at least... |
| 17:17.21 | gnarface | maybe only asks in expert mode |
| 17:17.28 | OxFEEDBACC | and i used gzip and cpio directly, not the update-initramfs utility... |
| 17:17.44 | gnarface | you'd have to do it as root, of course |
| 17:18.09 | gnarface | look in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf |
| 17:18.19 | OxFEEDBACC | i'm outside that system... i can't boot it (yet) |
| 17:19.08 | gnarface | well you'd in theory change MODULES=most (the first option) to MODULES=dep and then re-run update-initramfs and it would in theory be closer to the original smaller size |
| 17:20.58 | OxFEEDBACC | ya, but why would it include /etc/udev/rules.d? |
| 17:21.18 | gnarface | i dunno. are you sure that it does? |
| 17:21.54 | OxFEEDBACC | if i were i had used that tool in the first place ;-) |
| 17:22.17 | OxFEEDBACC | i'm pretty sure it does not... but let's see... |
| 17:22.34 | OxFEEDBACC | no, can't just "see"... i'm not in that system... :-/ |
| 17:22.49 | gnarface | are you in the installer? |
| 17:23.00 | OxFEEDBACC | nope, on another box... |
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| 17:28.19 | gnarface | ok, so when it freezes, that's after a completed install though, didn't you say? |
| 17:28.37 | gnarface | you complete the install successfully then it stalls on the first boot? |
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| 17:29.50 | OxFEEDBACC | i'd say it's a minimal install, but yes, it freezes only when i boot the installed system... |
| 17:30.50 | gnarface | ok, so you can still get a grub prompt if you try to boot it right now, then, right? |
| 17:31.06 | OxFEEDBACC | sure... |
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| 17:31.29 | gnarface | ok, and you know how to edit the kernel command-line temporarily from that prompt, right? |
| 17:31.52 | OxFEEDBACC | yes... that's how i booted the first time, before i adapted grub.cfg... |
| 17:33.05 | gnarface | ok, so you should be able to blacklist a module from the kernel command-line i just don't know the exact syntax. i'd say that's the best thing to try next though |
| 17:33.24 | gnarface | try to blacklist that camera module, or maybe the parent module for it |
| 17:34.08 | OxFEEDBACC | if i just knew which module it is... i looked that alcor micro up, but didn't find much... |
| 17:37.52 | OxFEEDBACC | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/92853/adding-a-file-to-etc-of-initramfs-in-debian-wheezy#92856 ... looks like what i need... |
| 17:38.01 | OxFEEDBACC | (for the udev approach) |
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| 17:39.43 | gnarface | i think alcor micro may be supported by the uvcvideo module |
| 17:39.50 | gnarface | (it covers a bunch of different models) |
| 17:50.29 | OxFEEDBACC | login :-D |
| 17:51.12 | OxFEEDBACC | what a silly bullshit... but what do i expect... i tried for 18 hours today... and yesterday almost the same amount of time... |
| 17:51.46 | OxFEEDBACC | i just forgot to specify the root= in the kernel command line... no idea what effect that internally has, but that was just it... |
| 17:52.24 | OxFEEDBACC | but i think i will still unauthorize the cam... |
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| 17:56.45 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: hah. you were just missing root=, that's all? that's the path to the root partition (/) |
| 17:56.58 | gnarface | (partition or device) |
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| 17:59.15 | OxFEEDBACC | no, of course with the partition thereafter... without i wouldn't even count it as specification... |
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| 18:02.04 | gnarface | yea, sure, that's what i meant |
| 18:02.09 | OxFEEDBACC | oh, and i even misread your last 2 lines :-/ sorry... but yes, that was all... man, i really need sleep... maybe after it's running now, i will get some more/better sleep tonight... |
| 18:03.36 | gnarface | hah, sleep well man |
| 18:03.51 | gnarface | this stuff gets easier over time, you definitely fought an uphill battle |
| 18:03.53 | OxFEEDBACC | thanks, but not yet... :-p |
| 18:05.38 | OxFEEDBACC | and 6 VTs available, just btw... |
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| 18:31.12 | merp | hello |
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| 18:35.56 | merp | How to update Firefox to version 55 on Devuan? |
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| 18:47.06 | merp | Someone help me? |
| 18:55.30 | ji-ef[m] | Download from mozilla, unzip, done |
| 18:59.29 | merp | ji-ef[m] But I have to uninstall before Firefox-ESR 52? |
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| 19:12.27 | ji-ef[m] | if you installed esr from apt, so no, you can keep it. |
| 19:12.28 | ji-ef[m] | But, to launch firefox 55, you'll have to launch it from the install directory,--ie not from the standard lenu |
| 19:12.31 | ji-ef[m] | menu |
| 19:15.39 | ji-ef[m] | firefox from apt install binary stuff in /usr. Your download+unzip install stuff in the directory where you decided to unzip to, so no conflicts |
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| 19:24.39 | gnarface | firefox 55 isn't in backports? |
| 19:27.44 | fsmithred | nope. None in backports. |
| 19:28.02 | fsmithred | 52.2.0 in jessie-security |
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| 19:39.42 | merp | ji-ef[m] But I have to add repositories for Firefox on Devuan? |
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| 20:00.11 | ji-ef[m] | well dunno if mozilla provides deb pkgs for Devuan. Unril then, get latest versions from their site. |
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| 20:08.17 | merp | ji-ef[m] As would be the procedure for Firefox with Unril? |
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| 20:09.14 | ji-ef[m] | Sorry XD, typo : Until |
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| 20:19.51 | merp | ji-ef[m] As would be the procedure for Firefox with with format .tar.bz2? There is No format .deb |
| 20:25.14 | ji-ef[m] | yes, at the very least, from Firefox 55, you can update to future versions from the "About ..." page, I think |
| 20:28.53 | merp | <ji-ef[m]> Do you know which is the command to install from the terminal the browser firefox with tar format-gz2? |
| 20:30.05 | merp | <ji-ef[m]> Do you know which is the command to install from the terminal the browser firefox with format .tar.gz2? |
| 20:30.26 | fsmithred | apt-get install firefox-esr |
| 20:31.03 | fsmithred | wget <path to the mozilla's download> |
| 20:31.33 | fsmithred | tar -xvjf firefox-whatever |
| 20:31.52 | fsmithred | whatever.tar.bz2, that is |
| 20:32.23 | fsmithred | the second way will get you the newest |
| 20:32.29 | merp | But that is in version 52. |
| 20:32.57 | fsmithred | apt get should give you 52 |
| 20:33.09 | fsmithred | I don't know what the newest version is |
| 20:34.05 | fsmithred | why do you need the newest? Most of the people I know are keeping 45.9 because the newer ones suck so bad. |
| 20:34.51 | merp | What I want is to install the version 55. |
| 20:35.28 | fsmithred | so go to mozilla, download the tarball and unpack it in your home. That's the easiest way. |
| 20:35.47 | greenjeans | https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/nightly/all/ |
| 20:36.14 | Artemis3 | or switch to Palemoon and be done with it xD |
| 20:36.23 | fsmithred | nightly? Is that the source tarball? |
| 20:36.31 | fsmithred | I got that once by mistake. |
| 20:37.21 | greenjeans | nightly beta builds |
| 20:37.26 | greenjeans | https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/desktop/ |
| 20:37.38 | greenjeans | here's the latest stable |
| 20:38.23 | merp | By default this installed with version 52, and I want to install the version 55, and this in format .tar.gz2, that's why was wondering to install using the command in the terminal. |
| 20:39.26 | fsmithred | you don't actually install it. Just unpack it and run it. |
| 20:40.21 | golinux | You can even put it in your user directory! |
| 20:40.35 | greenjeans | yep |
| 20:40.49 | fsmithred | I'll give you the commands again if you need. |
| 20:40.52 | golinux | You can have several versions that way. |
| 20:41.37 | fsmithred | tar -xvjf firefox*.bz2 |
| 20:41.44 | fsmithred | firefox/firefox & |
| 20:42.14 | fsmithred | the & is optional |
| 20:43.18 | merp | Thanks, and which is the repository to be refreshed automatically in devuan Jessie? |
| 20:47.00 | greenjeans | you can actually just download the tarball, right-click on it in your file manager and choose "extract here", when that's done go into the new firefox folder and click the firefox executable |
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| 20:47.53 | golinux | That's what guigirl does |
| 20:49.20 | greenjeans | oh wow, this nightly build from yesterday is like twice as fast as the current version in the repo, maybe more |
| 20:50.43 | fsmithred | how do the menus look? |
| 20:52.12 | greenjeans | and it automatically imported book marks |
| 20:52.24 | greenjeans | from my other installed version of ff |
| 20:53.10 | greenjeans | menus look fine, everything is nice and crisp |
| 20:53.29 | merp | When you install the version new firefox 55, all the settings of firefox 55 you will be lost, and it would be a circuit-annoying in every new version. With the repository added Devuan Jessie, is not updated automatically without losing the current configuration?. |
| 20:55.43 | greenjeans | Fireftp and icon pre-installed |
| 20:56.31 | greenjeans | Flash and openH264 installed too |
| 20:58.20 | fsmithred | all your settings are in ~/.mozilla and any version of firefox you run will use those files |
| 20:58.48 | fsmithred | you might get some conflicts with extensions |
| 21:00.25 | ji-ef[m] | merp I don't think you lose anything. FF config is in .config, in your Home.. Just get the latest firefox in tar.bz2 as everyone tell you, unzip in the directory you want |
| 21:00.26 | ji-ef[m] | And check for updates directly from within firefox in the "About version" or whatever menu . |
| 21:02.38 | merp | But as this in the backports of Devuan version of firefox-esr-10n 52, tap to uninstall the version 52 and then install the new version 55. |
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| 21:03.32 | greenjeans | yep, the latest version of 55 is pretty snappy, heckuva lot better than the last one I tried |
| 21:03.45 | greenjeans | Palemoon is still quicker though |
| 21:04.26 | fsmithred | merp, can't you download firefox in the language you want? |
| 21:04.50 | ji-ef[m] | As I told you before, there are no conflicts between these 2 versions; but if you feel it, just uninstall firefox-esr |
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| 21:06.53 | merp | Wait a little while, don't miss, boy try to desisntalar the old version and install the new version in tar format-gz2. |
| 21:09.12 | ji-ef[m] | Sleep time, it's 11pm here, see you tomorow :) |
| 21:09.29 | fsmithred | cook time here. g'ngiht |
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| 21:09.43 | fsmithred | heads for the kitchen |
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| 22:05.58 | aitor | hi |
| 22:07.39 | aitor | today i've built an image of gnuinos jessie in amd64, tomorrow i'll do same for ascii |
| 22:08.07 | aitor | the issue of the authentication failure during live-sessions has been solved, and now it works |
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| 22:16.13 | aitor | bye |
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| 22:34.51 | greenjeans | woo-hoo new gnu-inunu!!!! |
| 22:34.55 | greenjeans | os that is |
| 22:34.58 | greenjeans | ;) |
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| 22:38.01 | omnipotentduo | question about repos for devuan, do we just use jessie's repos for adding new repos like wine? |
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| 22:49.45 | omnipotentduo | never mind I figured it out |
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| 23:29.45 | omnipotentduo | I'm thinking daemons should be called cats, because no one actually knows what they do when they aren't being watched lol |
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