| 00:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't the real question if a package that links against libsystemd0 will still work when there's no systemd stuff installed and running on your system? |
| 00:10.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | much similar to Firefox, where I'm not worried about their support for PulseAudio, the regression happened when they dropped ALSA support |
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| 00:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | devuan should fix the regressions. The result could go upstream |
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| 00:14.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | my humble 2 cent |
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| 01:04.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 01:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | HDD failure? |
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| 02:18.26 | bozonius | DocScrutinizer05: when you say fix the regressions, are you referring to ALSA support in FF, or systemSHITEd, or both? |
| 02:18.29 | bozonius | (just wondering) |
| 02:19.56 | bozonius | btw, I obviously agree that this weld-it-on-permanently approach they are using is idiotic |
| 02:19.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I refer to systemshiteD |
| 02:20.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly that libsystemd0 thing |
| 02:20.40 | bozonius | why are you less concerned re FF/ALSA support? |
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| 02:20.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | since devuabn isn't about ALSA |
| 02:21.31 | furrywolf | I would love if we have pulselessness a goal too |
| 02:21.43 | bozonius | well, maybe it's not "about" ALSA, but ALSA certainly seems to a fave around here. |
| 02:22.08 | bozonius | I mean, now it is gone from my host and ALL my VMs. And sound has never been better (except for pauses in FF) |
| 02:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | but as long as (and IH) linking against libsystend0 doesn't have any adverse effects except the binaries growing a little, on devuan, I'm not worried at all about libsystemd0 |
| 02:22.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/IH/IF |
| 02:23.15 | bozonius | why do you want to link against libsystemd? |
| 02:23.25 | bozonius | I'm no fan here. |
| 02:23.40 | bozonius | or did you mean "not linking" against libsystemd? |
| 02:23.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd even think keeping libsystemd0 in packages makes a lot of sense so devuan could upstream any patches made to those packages to make them work in systemd-less environment TOO |
| 02:25.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicking functionality for no good reason is never a smart option |
| 02:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when that functionality is systemd support |
| 02:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | mind you, devuan is NOT anti-systemd |
| 02:26.44 | bozonius | some here would question the "functionality" angle a bit, but yeah. Some people like that dog food. |
| 02:26.54 | bozonius | agreed. |
| 02:27.10 | bozonius | no reason to be. Just let us have our linux system without it. |
| 02:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also frown each single time I see that character sequence "systemd" anywhere, but hey... |
| 02:27.58 | bozonius | just like pulseaudio. Now that I've relieved my systems of this unnecessary overhead and poor performance, I could care less if someone actually desires to include that overhead and performance |
| 02:28.22 | golinux | Seems I remember that nextime uses PA. |
| 02:28.37 | bozonius | My manjaro VM is clean. No sign of any of it there. |
| 02:28.58 | bozonius | no avahi either. So I guess you could say it is poetterfree. |
| 02:30.03 | golinux | There were discussion from two years ago like this: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150808.123907.dbdbc301.en.html |
| 02:30.10 | golinux | +s |
| 02:30.13 | bozonius | (manjaro is a derivative of arch, which DOES use systemd these days. But I'm running a community version with openRC) |
| 02:33.08 | bozonius | nextime? watches and clocks? |
| 02:35.22 | bozonius | sorry not familiar with "nextime" |
| 02:35.57 | bozonius | golinux: I think "Plan A" per that document you cite to has been accomplished, no? |
| 02:36.18 | bozonius | so then what's wrong with talking about getting rid of the rest of the SHITE? |
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| 02:40.12 | golinux | Devuan's lead developer |
| 02:40.29 | bozonius | you? |
| 02:40.37 | golinux | nextime |
| 02:40.42 | bozonius | OH! |
| 02:41.10 | golinux | Wouldn't have happened without him. |
| 02:41.47 | bozonius | so we can still "get rid of" PA and other brazed-on items by just using some common-sense abstraction, such as some here have suggested |
| 02:41.59 | bozonius | then the lead can have his fave, and we can have ours. |
| 02:42.04 | bozonius | everyone gets happy at once |
| 02:43.56 | golinux | Our history is a good read. Maybe you'd want to catch up sometime: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/dng@20140805.143704.00000000.en.html |
| 02:48.58 | bozonius | thx for the link, golinux. Good reading there. |
| 02:49.49 | bozonius | You see, systemd crept up on me. One day, after installed mageia 5, which up until 4 had been excellent, I noticed that my log files seemed to be missing... |
| 02:51.03 | bozonius | that was about 2 or 3 years ago. After being instructed re the "new" way of doing things, I became annoyed. I mean, if they were going to do this, couldn't someone put out a warning? This was no minor surgery; this was a sexchange operation. |
| 02:51.30 | bozonius | At that time, though, I had no idea this was going on (debianfork, etc). So, yeah, I need to catch up. |
| 02:53.27 | gnarface | there was a warning put out |
| 02:53.29 | gnarface | several in fact |
| 02:53.46 | bozonius | those messages in a bottle did not reach these shores... |
| 02:54.05 | gnarface | the commercial propaganda machine astro-turfed right over it with the willing help of hundreds of thousands of magpies |
| 02:54.07 | bozonius | then again, I don't/didn't keep up with the computer press. |
| 02:54.55 | gnarface | i do, and chances are you would still have not realized the popular side was wrong until it was too late for your log files |
| 02:55.13 | gnarface | there was some first class bluster backing this crap |
| 02:55.36 | bozonius | oh my goodness |
| 02:56.14 | bozonius | laughing, but not AT gnarface or anyone else in the channel. Just the silly scenario I am reading and the comments here... go on |
| 02:57.06 | gnarface | i should refrain from editorializing too much in here |
| 02:57.10 | gnarface | it makes the kids uncomfortable |
| 03:01.38 | SuicideJunkie | What really baffles me is how difficult it seems to be for people to just... not... screw up everything. |
| 03:09.27 | gnarface | heh |
| 03:09.37 | gnarface | yea tha one has been bugging me my whole life |
| 03:13.50 | SuicideJunkie | One perennial thing I see is people having trouble with their code that can't spell things consistently in their question. Compilers care, they should be used to writing properly. |
| 03:14.22 | SuicideJunkie | Then there's the ziplock freezerbag with a hole torn open at the bottom corner. And then there's windows 8. |
| 03:17.37 | SuicideJunkie | I mean, if you spell something wrong, but consistently, then it is somewhat understandable. You declare your variable you stick with it. |
| 03:30.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | decent code editors have autocompletion for that |
| 03:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | aside of many other useful functions like showing the definition of the variable you are just about to reference |
| 03:32.12 | furrywolf | only actual code editor I've used was geany, and it was too crashy for my tastes. |
| 03:32.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | nested comments (some very nice topic to argue whole nights long about) |
| 03:34.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny fact: nobody could tell for sure within 10 minutes if nested comments are supported in c or not, once we discussed it |
| 03:35.08 | furrywolf | gcc doesn't like them by default, or at least didn't |
| 03:36.10 | golinux | bozonius: My all time fav: http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/03265.html |
| 03:39.14 | golinux | Oops wrong link try this one http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html |
| 03:39.52 | bozonius | yeah. That was about alpine, a nice little linux system. I have a VM for it, though I haven't done anything with it recently. |
| 03:40.21 | bozonius | In fact, I had wanted to use it as my VM hosting platform, but sadly, VirtualBox does not support hosting on alpine. |
| 03:45.23 | bozonius | golinux: The RedHat New World Order |
| 03:46.00 | golinux | Just good old EEE |
| 03:46.51 | bozonius | electrical and electronics engineering? Or something more snarky than that? |
| 03:47.29 | golinux | Embrace, Extend, Extinguish |
| 03:48.29 | bozonius | sounds like the sequel to FUD |
| 03:49.02 | golinux | Google it |
| 03:49.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly hard to google triple-e |
| 03:49.41 | bozonius | no doc, I actually did. |
| 03:50.02 | bozonius | got about a zillion hits, everything from equine medicine to everything else |
| 03:50.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure |
| 03:50.49 | golinux | Try Microsoft |
| 03:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | didn't espect hoogle came back with "no hits found" |
| 03:51.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy |
| 03:51.17 | bozonius | I brought this up once before, and that is the question of who exactly "owns" linux |
| 03:51.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | expect google* |
| 03:51.58 | golinux | And we're getting OT again. |
| 03:52.01 | bozonius | does Redhat own it? Why does Redhat get to unilateral decide for us all, after so many thousands of people have contributed their volunteer time and effort |
| 03:52.13 | golinux | I need to crash. See you all tomorrow. |
| 03:52.25 | bozonius | hey, I WAS over on debianfork, but you guys started chatting here again... not my fault |
| 03:52.35 | bill-auger | noone "owns" software especially not free software |
| 03:53.33 | bill-auger | there are copyright holders and in some case patent holders - but i think "ownership" should apply only to physical objects - not information |
| 03:53.37 | TheTrueHooha | I have an issue with the apt version of the Linux Kernel. I am attempting to compile modem drivers and it fails because it can't find "version.h". I have installed the headers files, the source files, and etc |
| 03:53.46 | TheTrueHooha | All of it seems to lack the version.h file |
| 03:53.58 | TheTrueHooha | I will pastebin the output of the program |
| 03:55.08 | TheTrueHooha | http://ix.io/yVc |
| 03:55.47 | bozonius | I'll be in #debianfork |
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| 04:12.26 | fsmithred | TheTrueHooha, apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r) |
| 04:12.36 | fsmithred | and probably build-essential too |
| 04:12.44 | fsmithred | g'night |
| 04:13.05 | TheTrueHooha | Everything is already installed |
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| 05:40.51 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 08:20.15 | OxFEEDBACC | are there multiple incompatible versions of squashfs out there? my centos 6.8 box can't mount or unsquashfs the filesystem.squashfs of the live system :-/ |
| 08:20.33 | OxFEEDBACC | of devuan's live system, to be precise... |
| 08:24.14 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: i'm wondering if different compression choice in use |
| 08:25.06 | muep | at least the base kernel in centos 6.8 will be pretty many years old |
| 08:25.32 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: and check SQUASHFS options in /boot/config- etc... -- kernel may just not have the right options enabled |
| 08:25.37 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah, it's a 2.6.32 kernel :-/ |
| 08:26.13 | enyc | "The original version of Squashfs used gzip compression, although Linux kernel 2.6.34 added support for LZMA[11] and LZO compression,[12] Linux kernel 2.6.38 added support for LZMA2 compression (which is used by xz),[13] and Linux kernel 3.19 added support for LZ4 compression.[14]" |
| 08:26.52 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: p7zip may allow you to unpack a squashfs .... |
| 08:27.47 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: uh, how sure are you that it won't actually eventually work? i've been noticing that, especially on older hardware, xz is orders of magnitude slower than even bz2, let alone gz. maybe you're assuming it freezes and just killing it prematurely? |
| 08:27.59 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah, i could do it on devuan, too, but i can't currently load it to my local boxes... :-/ |
| 08:28.18 | gnarface | xz can also take a lot more ram, depending on how they compressed it |
| 08:28.26 | gnarface | you could be running out of ram |
| 08:28.37 | enyc | gnarface: and run out of l2 cache space and be slow ;p |
| 08:28.41 | gnarface | worth checking anyway |
| 08:28.46 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: why cant upgrade boxes? |
| 08:29.41 | OxFEEDBACC | enyc: i must check if the provider supports devuan meanwhile... or open a ticket requesting it... |
| 08:30.23 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: humm err arr err provider of hardware? vps? etc ... whats going on? |
| 08:31.07 | OxFEEDBACC | vps, yes, sorry... |
| 08:31.15 | OxFEEDBACC | (head is a bit stuffed lately) |
| 08:31.19 | gnarface | oh |
| 08:31.29 | gnarface | if it's a vps, cpu/ram quotas might even be an issue |
| 08:31.49 | gnarface | are you getting an error or is it just dying? |
| 08:32.56 | OxFEEDBACC | yah, ram could be an issue... had to unmount the DVD to try again to mount the squashfs at the second approach... |
| 08:33.15 | OxFEEDBACC | after i found something about fragment cache in the /boot/config* |
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| 08:35.04 | OxFEEDBACC | but still not... but if gnarface is right, that the DVD's live file system is xz-compressed, and that xz has been taken into the kernel with 2.6.34, then that's likely the reason... |
| 08:36.21 | gnarface | wait 2.6? |
| 08:36.31 | gnarface | i didn't know it'd been distributed as xz for that long... |
| 08:36.45 | gnarface | i dunno really i guess |
| 08:36.52 | gnarface | i thought using xz on everything was a new thing |
| 08:37.10 | OxFEEDBACC | oh, sorry, that was enyc saying it... misread... |
| 08:39.06 | gnarface | if you're just missing the xz package it's just called xz |
| 08:39.22 | gnarface | oh i lied, xz-utils on ceres right now |
| 08:39.36 | gnarface | anyway i'd expect an error in that case though... |
| 08:40.10 | OxFEEDBACC | no, the box has xz, but if the kernel needs it internally to mount the squashfs, i'm lost... |
| 08:41.19 | OxFEEDBACC | well, doesn't matter much... i guess it will take at least another week research and stuff until i get a lovely OS to run on that tablet... |
| 08:41.31 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: use p7zip to unpack ;p |
| 08:42.54 | OxFEEDBACC | well, could anyone tell beforehand how large the data collection would be? i'm pretty constrained on disk space on the VPS as well... and restricted here in terms of bandwidth :-/ |
| 08:43.20 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: what doy ou mean data collection? |
| 08:43.37 | OxFEEDBACC | the contents of the squashfs... |
| 08:43.46 | gnarface | well if it needs to be compiled into the kernel and it's a VPS and it's not compiled into the kernel, i'm not sure it matters |
| 08:43.58 | gnarface | hmm |
| 08:44.21 | enyc | gnarface: matters to do what? |
| 08:44.38 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: errrrrrrrrr you ahve a squashfs file of ?some? size and you want to read inside it? |
| 08:44.47 | gnarface | enyc: i mean it might not matter what you install if you can't recompile the kernel |
| 08:45.06 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: do you have enough disk space to unpack the ethice squashfs temporarially? |
| 08:45.17 | gnarface | i see this in the stock ceres kernel: CONFIG_SQUASHFS_XZ=y |
| 08:45.34 | enyc | gnarface: if just wanting to take files out of a squashfs, p7zip can be nstalled to do so in userspace, irrespective of the kernel |
| 08:45.35 | gnarface | suddenly it occurs to me that maybe what he needs is xz support for squashfs |
| 08:45.38 | OxFEEDBACC | that was my question, enyc... i have 2.8 GB if i remove the DVD image... |
| 08:46.04 | enyc | OxFEEDBACC: more to the point p7zip 't' (test) command can be used ot list, then you can extract specific files next |
| 08:46.26 | gnarface | hmmmm |
| 08:46.29 | OxFEEDBACC | that's a good point... |
| 08:46.45 | gnarface | dvd can be up to 8GB can't it? |
| 08:47.09 | gnarface | oh that's the live image |
| 08:47.16 | gnarface | nevermind |
| 08:47.32 | OxFEEDBACC | but i just figured another problem, which must be solved first... anyway, thanks for all your contribs and time... |
| 08:47.42 | gnarface | good luck... |
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| 08:50.20 | OxFEEDBACC | thx |
| 08:52.08 | gnarface | maybe you can check /boot/config-* or /proc/config.gz for the kernel options they used |
| 08:52.32 | gnarface | (if furnished) |
| 08:52.45 | OxFEEDBACC | yes, i looked there... there's not a lot about squashfs though... |
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| 08:55.28 | mikeyloveslignux | Oh Devuan. You bad bad boy |
| 08:55.42 | OxFEEDBACC | tsts... |
| 08:56.59 | enyc | mikeyloveslignux: howso? |
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| 08:58.06 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: cat /boot/config-* |grep -i 'x\|lz' |
| 08:59.08 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: it was this one in particular that intrigued me: CONFIG_SQUASHFS_XZ=y |
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| 09:33.25 | OxFEEDBACC | gnarface: yes, that option is not listed in the VPS's config... there's only CONFIG_SQUASHFS=m and CONFIG_SQUASHFS_FRAGMENT_CACHE_SIZE=3 and a comment CONFIG_SQUASHFS_EMBEDDED is not set, so i guess the kernel just does't have that option... |
| 09:33.48 | gnarface | bummer |
| 09:34.11 | OxFEEDBACC | unsquashfs gives an error "failed to read fragment table index"... let's see if p7zip is available... |
| 09:34.18 | gnarface | the squashfs module is loaded, right? |
| 09:34.34 | OxFEEDBACC | yes, i had to load it, of course... |
| 09:34.36 | gnarface | ok |
| 09:35.23 | gnarface | i wonder if they forgot it or disabled it on purpose |
| 09:35.56 | gnarface | i wonder if xz-utils would work |
| 09:36.14 | gnarface | i thought p7zip was just a windows implementation of the same thing |
| 09:36.52 | gnarface | oh, no i see it in the repo too |
| 09:37.46 | OxFEEDBACC | k, what the duck... can anyone please give me the md5sum of the uefi live image of jessie 1.0.0? |
| 09:38.01 | OxFEEDBACC | maybe i misread the output of gpg --verify :-/ |
| 09:40.08 | rrq | 4e1a7d85cf8f95034e056703ed9d98a9 devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_uefi_desktop-live.iso |
| 09:41.10 | OxFEEDBACC | same here... wtf... p7zip also reports an error on the squashfs :-/ |
| 09:41.49 | OxFEEDBACC | "There are data after the end of archive" --- "Physical Size = 4227416" --- "Tail Size = 827153982" |
| 09:42.16 | OxFEEDBACC | it also reports "Method = BCJ LZMA2:17" ... doesn't look like xz... |
| 09:42.42 | OxFEEDBACC | oh, no... above it says "Type = xz" |
| 09:42.54 | OxFEEDBACC | well, let's defer it... |
| 09:44.58 | OxFEEDBACC | oh yes, and thanks again... |
| 09:45.14 | gnarface | it's possible that all you can do is ask them for it or get a new isp |
| 09:45.58 | OxFEEDBACC | well, at the moment i want to install it locally on a tablet... because otherwise it is useless... |
| 09:46.44 | OxFEEDBACC | next step is installing it on my development machines... which is not easy (psychologically) because i'm afraid i break my toolchain or parts of it... |
| 09:47.23 | OxFEEDBACC | i only want to install it on the VPS once i'm firm enough to know that i can do it in one go... |
| 09:48.07 | gnarface | well remote VPS services tend to introduce their own additional problems |
| 09:48.29 | gnarface | it might be better for you to try qemu-kvm locally |
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| 09:48.55 | OxFEEDBACC | that's true... that's why i want to be sure that i do everything right on my side... (which is never guaranteed whatsoever, but...) |
| 09:49.35 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah, i have devuan in a VM locally already... but from the installer image... i tested a lot... but not yet enough... |
| 09:50.11 | gnarface | the live image is probably really easy to launch |
| 09:51.20 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah, the point is still, that the biggest problem is to get the installer (or the live image) booted on the tablet, because it's cheap and has only UEFI 32 bits... and i saw already that the live image comes with a 64 bit loader... |
| 09:51.38 | OxFEEDBACC | i've read so much about it, and the more i read, the more confusing it became... |
| 09:52.37 | gnarface | well hang on, you have a tablet that is x86? |
| 09:52.39 | gnarface | or is it arm? |
| 09:52.47 | OxFEEDBACC | the most promising way seemed syslinux, i got it to "run", but not properly... its output was only two blank lines, but at least it ran (hung in many experiments before)... and syslinux support is apparently dead... |
| 09:52.47 | gnarface | it's 32-bit? |
| 09:53.13 | OxFEEDBACC | it's x86-64 (atom x5-z8350), but the UEFI is 32-bits only... |
| 09:53.38 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 09:53.52 | OxFEEDBACC | syslinux is supposed to handle that... |
| 09:54.10 | OxFEEDBACC | there are so ?ucking few efi loaders out there... :-/ |
| 09:54.37 | OxFEEDBACC | i don't know if i want to use grub2, but legacy grub is pretty dead, too... same with lilo... |
| 09:55.02 | OxFEEDBACC | which does devuan use again? grub or grub2? |
| 09:55.55 | rrq | have you tried rEFInd? http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind |
| 09:56.01 | gnarface | grub2 as far as i know |
| 09:56.47 | gnarface | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/37779/how-do-i-boot-from-a-liveusb-using-qemu-kvm |
| 09:57.01 | gnarface | the top ranked answer looks out of date to me from ceres, but the next ones all should work |
| 09:57.25 | gnarface | kvm appears to just be a script that points to qemu-system-x86_64 for me because i'm on amd64 |
| 09:57.27 | OxFEEDBACC | i still need a loader with refind... and i don't like the philosophy of refind that it is smarter than i (though i admit that i'm less experienced on that topic) and that it tries to do so much stuff "automagically" |
| 09:58.11 | OxFEEDBACC | i want to boot something outside a kvm... |
| 09:58.33 | gnarface | well, but you should understand that a VPS isn't that |
| 09:58.42 | gnarface | not in any relevant sense |
| 09:59.23 | gnarface | trying to boot it on that tablet is a noble cause but i can't say i've tried such hardware |
| 09:59.32 | OxFEEDBACC | the vps is unimportant... i just wanted to use it to examine the image, because i currently don't have the bandwidth to download the image... |
| 09:59.49 | OxFEEDBACC | the VPS has no EFI:.. (afaik) |
| 10:00.02 | OxFEEDBACC | the actual installation target is a hardware tablet... |
| 10:01.18 | gnarface | OxFEEDBACC: did you try the devuan_jessie_1.0.0_i386_desktop-live.iso on it instead of the amd64 one? |
| 10:02.01 | OxFEEDBACC | that doesn't come with efi, afaik... but no, i haven't... |
| 10:02.10 | gnarface | oh i see |
| 10:02.11 | gnarface | hmm |
| 10:03.35 | gnarface | and then the devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_uefi_desktop-live.iso one doesn't work because it's also a 64-bit uefi and there is no legacy bios boot mode to support the devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso? |
| 10:04.00 | OxFEEDBACC | well, i think i spend the rest of the day reading rodsbooks about grub2 with efi... maybe i can put it together manually... somehow... actually i don't need to rely on the configurator, not even installing it, and do it manually ... once and for all... no upgrades :-D |
| 10:04.08 | OxFEEDBACC | (never touch a booting system) |
| 10:04.37 | gnarface | what about minimal live? |
| 10:04.39 | OxFEEDBACC | there's no legacy boot, no... |
| 10:05.28 | OxFEEDBACC | i didn't check the minimal... but 300MB still would hurt at the moment :-( |
| 10:06.53 | gnarface | :( |
| 10:07.26 | OxFEEDBACC | or i could look if i find a blank DVD (not knowing why i didn't bought some along with the burner last week) |
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| 10:07.42 | OxFEEDBACC | but not even sure it can boot from that... |
| 10:08.36 | gnarface | it may need something built specially |
| 10:09.09 | gnarface | that only doesn't exist already due to not having the right hardware |
| 10:10.55 | OxFEEDBACC | heh... found 3 +R and 5 -RW discs... |
| 10:11.57 | OxFEEDBACC | well, it's not wasting a disc... i can use it for the other machines later... if i can manage to install them before ASCII is ready... ;-) |
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| 10:38.33 | fsmithred | OxFEEDBACC, what's your ultimate goal? How many development machines to install? |
| 10:39.12 | fsmithred | or is the tablet the goal? |
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| 10:45.05 | OxFEEDBACC | fsmithred: 2 development machines, but the tablet first... |
| 10:46.02 | fsmithred | unfortunately, the uefi iso is 64 only |
| 10:46.16 | OxFEEDBACC | funny enough, the setup screen shows the DVD-drive (with devuan installer disc) as a boot choice, but selecting it almost immediately (<1s) returns... |
| 10:46.43 | OxFEEDBACC | yes, i think i must put something together myself... |
| 10:46.54 | fsmithred | not necessarily |
| 10:46.57 | fsmithred | but sort of |
| 10:47.15 | fsmithred | after you've read a little more at rodsbooks... |
| 10:47.26 | fsmithred | shit, no |
| 10:47.52 | fsmithred | oh, can you boot the tablet from usb? |
| 10:47.58 | OxFEEDBACC | when i remove the disc from the drive, it's not listed as a boot choice (just btw) |
| 10:48.49 | OxFEEDBACC | i can sort of boot it from USB... but i don't know what (files) i have to put where so that it actually boots :-p |
| 10:49.32 | fsmithred | did you dd the uefi iso to usb and boot it? You shouldn't have to put anything anywhere |
| 10:49.55 | fsmithred | oh, nm, it won't boot because it's wrong arch |
| 10:49.59 | OxFEEDBACC | i don't have the UEFI available locally (and not the necessary bandwidth) |
| 10:50.16 | OxFEEDBACC | yes, i also need a bootia32.efi... |
| 10:50.31 | OxFEEDBACC | you're right, i'm gonna read more of rodsbooks... |
| 10:50.39 | fsmithred | but heres an idea |
| 10:50.49 | OxFEEDBACC | always curious :-) |
| 10:51.05 | fsmithred | make a multiboot usb. First one you put on it is uefi-capable |
| 10:51.17 | fsmithred | second one is 32 bit |
| 10:51.29 | fsmithred | boot the 32 from the 64's bootloader |
| 10:52.19 | fsmithred | make your partitions, including the efi part |
| 10:52.28 | fsmithred | install the 32 without a bootloader |
| 10:52.54 | fsmithred | sorry, before that, download the 32-uefi grub |
| 10:53.07 | fsmithred | then install the 32 |
| 10:53.15 | fsmithred | damn, just woke up, not enough coffee |
| 10:53.25 | OxFEEDBACC | you mean install 32 bit devuan? that's as well close to impossible, because the only image i have here is the amd64 one... |
| 10:53.43 | fsmithred | anyway the cli installer pauses at the right time to install the bootloader |
| 10:53.49 | OxFEEDBACC | oh, you're talking about grub 32- and 64 bits... yes... |
| 10:54.04 | fsmithred | well, the amd64 system is not gonna work on 32-bit hardware |
| 10:54.10 | OxFEEDBACC | that was my idea already, i just need to read some more about the UEFI/grub2 combination... |
| 10:54.33 | fsmithred | you need grub-efi |
| 10:54.41 | OxFEEDBACC | the hardware is 64 bit, but the firmware is 32-bit only... |
| 10:54.52 | fsmithred | which firmware? |
| 10:55.04 | OxFEEDBACC | the firmware of the tablet... the UEFI stuff... |
| 10:55.26 | fsmithred | ok, I'm not sure what to do with that |
| 10:55.41 | OxFEEDBACC | it's a funny combination, i know... but as i've read it's pretty common on cheap devices like mine... |
| 10:56.02 | fsmithred | if you can boot the 64 and install it without a bootloader, and download the grub-efi-32 debs |
| 10:56.10 | fsmithred | then you can install the bootloader in chroot |
| 10:56.40 | fsmithred | mount the system partition to /target |
| 10:56.55 | OxFEEDBACC | i must have some 32-bit *.efi loader that is capable of loading some OS loader, which can either switch to 64-bit by itself or leave the mode switch to the kernel, but at least it must load the kernel and initrd... |
| 10:56.55 | fsmithred | mount the efi partition to /target/boot/efi |
| 10:57.25 | fsmithred | bind-mount sys,proc,dev |
| 10:57.38 | fsmithred | chroot /target grub-install |
| 10:57.52 | fsmithred | and also update-grub so you get a boot menu |
| 10:59.01 | OxFEEDBACC | that sounds like a fight at many fronts at once... i'm not a fan of grub2 (if it is that), i could never really make friends with chroot... |
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| 11:00.46 | fsmithred | actually the graphical installer might be easier |
| 11:01.18 | OxFEEDBACC | once i figure out which file goes where i can do it manually, i promise ;-) |
| 11:01.22 | fsmithred | it stops and gives you some choices at the point it wants to install a bootloader |
| 11:01.24 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 11:01.42 | fsmithred | one of those choices opens a chroot terminal in the new installation |
| 11:02.06 | fsmithred | only part you have to do is get the right grub debs available |
| 11:02.08 | OxFEEDBACC | i once repartitioned a whole disk (including all system partitions) of a system while that system was running... i _can_ do stuff... i'm a big boy already... *cryyyyyyyyyyy* |
| 11:02.16 | fsmithred | if you have network connection, you can just download them |
| 11:02.51 | fsmithred | lvm? |
| 11:02.55 | OxFEEDBACC | no idea if the wireless chip works out of the box.... |
| 11:03.14 | fsmithred | wireless firmware is installed in all the live images |
| 11:03.31 | OxFEEDBACC | which i don't have *sigh* |
| 11:03.45 | fsmithred | I thought you have the uefi live iso? |
| 11:03.54 | OxFEEDBACC | not locally... |
| 11:04.02 | fsmithred | what do you have locally? |
| 11:04.07 | OxFEEDBACC | oh, on my VPS... well, but i can't extract it... |
| 11:04.20 | OxFEEDBACC | locally i only have the amd64 installer iso... |
| 11:04.47 | fsmithred | what's a vps? |
| 11:05.22 | OxFEEDBACC | virtual private server? |
| 11:05.31 | fsmithred | a computer? a system running in a vm? |
| 11:05.45 | OxFEEDBACC | that's running in a VM... |
| 11:06.48 | fsmithred | is the system running in the vm similar to what you want on the tablet? |
| 11:07.23 | fsmithred | you might be able to roll your own iso from that |
| 11:07.27 | OxFEEDBACC | it's a 64 bit KVM VPS, so pretty similar yes, but not with EFI... |
| 11:07.53 | OxFEEDBACC | oh... well... interesting... |
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| 11:25.11 | OxFEEDBACC | i thought there'd come some follow-up... :-/ |
| 11:30.47 | fsmithred | sorry, I'm doing several things |
| 11:31.06 | fsmithred | you would need to install refractasnapshot and refractainstaller |
| 11:32.16 | fsmithred | you need about twice as much hard drive space as the system uses, because it makes a copy of the system before squashing it and rolling into a bootable iso |
| 11:32.20 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah, no problem... i just wondered... |
| 11:32.46 | fsmithred | can be on the same partition or a different partition - just change work_dir and snapshot_dir in the config file |
| 11:33.46 | fsmithred | it's way easier than building something with live-build or live-sdk |
| 11:33.51 | OxFEEDBACC | so, i can make it from my local qemu KVM running Devuan? disk space is no problem here... |
| 11:34.02 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 11:34.20 | fsmithred | you can even pull the refracta tools from experimental repo if you want |
| 11:34.35 | OxFEEDBACC | what does that mean? |
| 11:34.40 | fsmithred | or download the debs and install them with dpkg |
| 11:35.00 | fsmithred | if you download the debs and install, you'll still need to add the dependencies |
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| 11:35.09 | fsmithred | apt-get -f install |
| 11:35.09 | OxFEEDBACC | oh, you mean because they're not in the jessie repo? |
| 11:35.13 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 11:35.22 | fsmithred | they haven't migrated down yet, but they should |
| 11:35.40 | OxFEEDBACC | okay... it's a VM, so i can just clone it, then it won't hurt to use experimental software... |
| 11:35.42 | fsmithred | or you could install the debs with gdebi if you have that |
| 11:35.45 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 11:35.57 | fsmithred | well, just get those four packages |
| 11:36.20 | fsmithred | refractasnapshot-base, refractasnapshot-gui, refractainstaller-base refractainstaller-gui |
| 11:36.42 | OxFEEDBACC | i remember that i looked for refracta some months ago... is any central wiki or something known? |
| 11:37.08 | fsmithred | here's the line for sources.list... |
| 11:37.14 | fsmithred | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan experimental main |
| 11:37.23 | fsmithred | yeah, I'll get you links for the tools |
| 11:38.04 | OxFEEDBACC | cool... feels like spoon feeding ;-p |
| 11:38.19 | fsmithred | docs: http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/documents.html |
| 11:39.16 | fsmithred | downloads if you want the debs instead of installing from experimental: https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/tools/ |
| 11:39.24 | OxFEEDBACC | i think i was on that page already... |
| 11:39.43 | OxFEEDBACC | so, when i get stuck at some point, i will ask back here, if that's okay... |
| 11:39.51 | fsmithred | yes |
| 11:40.06 | fsmithred | one thing you may need to do |
| 11:40.45 | fsmithred | if the vps uses a different version of grub from the one you want in the iso, there are a couple of ways to deal with it |
| 11:41.09 | fsmithred | one would be to install the one you need in the vps just for making the snapshot.iso |
| 11:41.20 | OxFEEDBACC | the local VM i talked about is devuan jessie... |
| 11:41.49 | fsmithred | the other would be to download the debs so they are available to install in the live session, before you run the installer |
| 11:41.54 | fsmithred | um |
| 11:41.55 | OxFEEDBACC | the only problem i see ahead with that is that i must convince grub to install bootia32.efi on an otherwise 64-bit system... |
| 11:42.22 | fsmithred | yeah, it might get tricky |
| 11:42.27 | OxFEEDBACC | or refracta to do the same... |
| 11:42.49 | fsmithred | yeah, right now the uefi script will complain if grub-efi-amd64 is not installed |
| 11:43.25 | OxFEEDBACC | well, we'll see... |
| 11:43.37 | fsmithred | put the grub debs in the root of the filesystem |
| 11:43.40 | fsmithred | make the snapshot |
| 11:44.18 | fsmithred | when the installer gets to the grub section, choose chroot terminal |
| 11:44.42 | fsmithred | in that terminal, install the grub debs and you'll get the debconf screens that ask you where you want the bootloader |
| 11:44.59 | fsmithred | I think it'll work |
| 11:45.42 | fsmithred | maybe |
| 11:45.44 | OxFEEDBACC | "copy that" ... for later reference... |
| 11:46.49 | OxFEEDBACC | thanks for your great help, and all your time... i will keep you posted when i get something more done... or if i need more assistance... |
| 11:46.57 | fsmithred | you might need to install libefivars and set the refractasnapshot config file to "force uefi" |
| 11:47.03 | fsmithred | yw |
| 11:47.24 | fsmithred | you're not the first person who wants 32-bit uefi, so I need to re-think the installer |
| 11:47.59 | fsmithred | I figured anything new enough to have uefi must also be 64-bit, but I guess that's not true. |
| 11:48.08 | OxFEEDBACC | i don't want it... that tablet just hasn't anything else ;-) |
| 11:48.22 | fsmithred | somebody wanted you to want it |
| 11:49.07 | OxFEEDBACC | yeah... no idea what the advantage is for the manufacturers... |
| 11:49.29 | OxFEEDBACC | otherwise that thing is nice... just that it came with win10... |
| 11:49.48 | fsmithred | telescreen |
| 11:49.56 | OxFEEDBACC | i didn't touch windows since XP, which was okay, but now i'm sick of this modern shit after not even a week... |
| 11:50.07 | OxFEEDBACC | telescreen? |
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| 11:50.25 | fsmithred | not a fan of Orwell? |
| 11:50.52 | OxFEEDBACC | well, i don't dislike his works, but didn't read much either... |
| 11:51.04 | OxFEEDBACC | is that from 1984? |
| 11:51.10 | fsmithred | telescreen is the unit that big brother uses to watch everyone |
| 11:51.42 | fsmithred | we are volunteering for that with the tech we accept |
| 11:51.46 | OxFEEDBACC | ya, okay... because of win10's privacy violations, i guess... |
| 11:52.10 | OxFEEDBACC | hehe... i can feel unguilty because i don't accept it... |
| 11:52.27 | OxFEEDBACC | but it's true... most of the ppl carelessly just support it... |
| 11:53.24 | fsmithred | the tablet isn't from HP, is it? |
| 11:53.29 | OxFEEDBACC | i didn't connect the gadget to the outer world yet, and one of the first apps i got was W10Privace which lists plenty of dubious (at best) things to deactivate... |
| 11:53.59 | OxFEEDBACC | no, it's an Odys Shape Pro... pretty cheap one... i doubt HP would sell such... |
| 11:54.26 | fsmithred | oh, I looked that up a few days ago, but I don't remember what I saw |
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| 11:54.50 | fsmithred | but whatever it was did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling |
| 11:55.02 | OxFEEDBACC | it's a convertible actually... like the lenovo yogas... 360° flippable... |
| 11:55.25 | OxFEEDBACC | 11.6" full-hd... nice sound... i wonder if the latter will work under linux... |
| 11:56.46 | OxFEEDBACC | and doesn't weigh much more than a 100-sheets writing block... |
| 12:04.48 | OxFEEDBACC | wow... just remembered that i got a too-big bag along with my EeePc back in 2010... and it's the right size for the tab and has place enough for the external optical and SSD, and more... |
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| 13:54.54 | romo_ | ahoy, installed Jessie following a super useful video guide I received here yesterday about encrypted root. Was able to recreate everything inside a vm instantly without errors. Today, back on real hardware, install completed without errors but doesn't boot. |
| 13:55.10 | romo_ | one "last line" reads "waiting for /dev to be fully populated |
| 13:55.46 | romo_ | it complained about missing non-free driver for graphics once, but doesnt boot into debug/failsafe either |
| 13:57.37 | romo_ | this time, drives have not been changed around since the installation process |
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| 14:00.22 | fsmithred | hi romo_ |
| 14:00.52 | romo_ | ahoy fsmithred love your guide tons |
| 14:00.58 | fsmithred | glad it helped |
| 14:01.15 | fsmithred | maybe a problem with your initrd |
| 14:01.31 | fsmithred | try adding init=/bin/bash to the linux line |
| 14:02.09 | fsmithred | press e at boot screen, arrow keys down to linux line, add it and ctrl-x to boot |
| 14:02.28 | fsmithred | that should get you to a prompt |
| 14:06.38 | romo_ | alright, thanks. I'll try. Could take a second, now down to zero bootable systems. was pretty confident about this earlier... |
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| 14:17.00 | fsmithred | gnu_srs, how's it going? |
| 14:18.23 | fsmithred | gnu_srs1, you too. |
| 14:18.59 | gnu_srs1 | fsmithred: Hi, Fine thank you. Anything specific you have in mind? |
| 14:19.58 | fsmithred | live iso with openrc |
| 14:20.29 | fsmithred | I asked if you could do a debootstrap install with openrc, or if you have to start wtih sysvinit and replace it |
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| 14:40.57 | fsmithred | gnu_srs1, have you given any more thought to your live iso idea? |
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| 15:45.50 | Donatus | hi everybody |
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| 15:46.38 | Donatus | first time in here and long time no use of chat |
| 15:47.03 | furrywolf | heyas |
| 15:47.39 | Donatus | new devuan user, of course previously a debian user |
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| 15:53.17 | AlexLikeRock | good morning GNUs |
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| 15:55.13 | theouterlinux | Is there anyway to temporarily use x for things like mpv --vo=opengl in Devuan minimum without actually installing a desktop environment or too many packages? |
| 15:55.41 | furrywolf | sure. install just the x server you want, and optionally a lightweight window manager. |
| 15:56.14 | theouterlinux | What I mean is, running mpv but in TTY. |
| 15:57.10 | furrywolf | would mplayer be more suited to your application, since it has direct framebuffer and other video outputs? |
| 15:57.16 | theouterlinux | I can do it with other Linux distros, but it is when I switch to TTY via Ctrl+Alt+F1. |
| 15:57.52 | theouterlinux | Isn't mpv the more maintained fork of mplayer? |
| 15:57.56 | furrywolf | ... at this point I no longer understand your question. |
| 15:58.42 | gnu_srs1 | fsmithred: I think it would be possible to build an iso with devuan-installer based on openrc, it does also use /sbin/init from sysvinit-core |
| 15:59.20 | fsmithred | cool. I haven't played with openrc yet, but I plan to. |
| 15:59.24 | gnu_srs1 | I dunno know the procedure though :) |
| 15:59.39 | fsmithred | maybe I'll try a debootstrap install and see if I can start with it |
| 16:00.14 | fsmithred | right now I am working on getting live-sdk to include the debian-installer in a live iso |
| 16:00.20 | fsmithred | it's mostly working |
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| 16:03.48 | theouterlinux | On other Linux distros, I typically switch to TTY via Ctrl+Alt+F1. Then, I browse around via w3m. I have that application with a mobile user agent and the open external browser set to "mpv -ytdl --vo=opengl --ao=alsa" rather than an actual web browser. By using a mobile user agent, the sites load mp4 instead of flv. This lets me what video from w3m in TTY. I'm trying to be able to do this with Devuan minimum. I can get DVD's to play audio with |
| 16:03.48 | theouterlinux | mpv, but it can't find any --vo= I set to. |
| 16:06.10 | furrywolf | but if you're switching to a vt, it sounds like you are already running x. |
| 16:06.40 | fsmithred | there's a vlc-nox package. Don't know if that would do what you want. |
| 16:06.46 | furrywolf | so I'm not sure what your question is. is your DISPLAY set correctly? |
| 16:07.23 | AlexLikeRock | mplayer still avalible at ASCII ? |
| 16:07.30 | theouterlinux | I don't have a desktop environment or a login manager installed on Devuan minimum. Also, I can't even get caca-utils to work with it. |
| 16:07.33 | AlexLikeRock | so... install it |
| 16:07.47 | AlexLikeRock | i have both |
| 16:07.52 | furrywolf | is X running? |
| 16:07.56 | AlexLikeRock | mpv and mplayer at jessie |
| 16:09.05 | AlexLikeRock | theouterlinux, try isntall mplayer |
| 16:09.16 | theouterlinux | I don't want a DE. I'm trying to keep it TTY, that's why I'm using minimum instead of the full version. I was wondering if there's a way to install xorg packages to make this work as needed. |
| 16:09.21 | theouterlinux | I'll try mplayer |
| 16:09.24 | furrywolf | ok, I fucking give up. |
| 16:09.39 | furrywolf | you don't answer what I say, and contradict yourself. |
| 16:09.59 | furrywolf | goes off to make food |
| 16:10.00 | AlexLikeRock | theouterlinux, , remember MPV are developing... (its a baby) |
| 16:10.13 | AlexLikeRock | mplayer its STRONG ( adult) |
| 16:10.50 | theouterlinux | MPV has always worked better for me than mplayer, especially on 32-bit, which is what I'm using. |
| 16:11.19 | theouterlinux | The openSUSE packages for it are screwed up. |
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| 16:17.22 | AlexLikeRock | we are DEVUAN , fork of DEBIAN ç |
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| 16:18.22 | theouterlinux | I know, but Linux is Linux but because I'm using Devuan, I thought someone might know what's up. |
| 16:19.08 | theouterlinux | I've got Xubuntu, OpenSUSE 13.2, and Devuan minimum on different computers. |
| 16:19.44 | theouterlinux | I just tried mplayer with a DVD. The screen froze, but there was some weird colors at least. |
| 16:20.32 | fsmithred | theouterlinux, does it work in suse if you try it in runlevel 3? |
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| 16:25.41 | theouterlinux | Not to change the subject, but I just tried vlc-nox. It's showing the DVD menu just fine. However, vlc-nox does not have controls; mpv does in TTY. What I don't understand is why mvp or mplayer aren't working. If I use the mpv vo=opengl or drm flag, it says it cant find the -vo device and if I don't use the -vo flag then is says it couldn't open the x11 display. Audio from the DVD works though. |
| 16:26.21 | theouterlinux | MPV also skips the menu and plays the video, which is nice for those that don't autoplay. |
| 16:26.51 | theouterlinux | And mpv uses youtube-dl, so for web browsing in TTY, it has that going for it too. |
| 16:27.14 | theouterlinux | I don't know what runlevel 3 means. |
| 16:27.25 | fsmithred | it means X is not running |
| 16:27.30 | detha | theouterlinux: vlc always has some form of controls, telnet or keyboard |
| 16:29.32 | saptech | hello all |
| 16:29.34 | theouterlinux | I've been down this vlc-nox road before when I started working on this: https://github.com/theouterlinux/climenu. I found mpv and switched to it because it had controls and vlc in TTY did not. I don't want to remote into my computer just to control a video. That's too much. |
| 16:30.37 | AlexLikeRock | hi saptech |
| 16:30.49 | theouterlinux | Can I get X to run but keep it in TTY? |
| 16:31.35 | AlexLikeRock | start both TheFlyingCorpse , and try |
| 16:35.06 | theouterlinux | I tried using startx before but I get xauth: timeout in locking authority file //.Xauthority. I got a feeling I screwed up the Devuan install. |
| 16:35.36 | theouterlinux | Oh and Fatal server error: (EE) no screens found(EE) |
| 16:36.08 | *** join/#devuan devil (~quassel@173.212.198.154) |
| 16:36.11 | Xiaoman | Make an xorg.conf :) |
| 16:37.17 | theouterlinux | I have xinit, mesa, and libdrm-devel installed, but no desktop environments or window managers. Trying to keep it that way. |
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| 16:41.37 | theouterlinux | Just tried to run Xorg :1 -configure but it's error log (/var/log/Xorg.1.log) says there are no devices to configure. And... /var/log/Xorg.1.log also says List of video drivers: dummy. |
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| 16:43.42 | fsmithred | maybe you need to install xorg for that to work |
| 16:44.04 | fsmithred | and some xservers |
| 16:44.45 | fsmithred | is the browser required for mpv to work in console? Or could I just use the mpv command you listed above to play a local file? |
| 16:46.38 | omnipotentduo | !wine |
| 16:46.39 | infobot | Emulator of the Windows 3.x and Win32 APIs.. URL: http://www.winehq.com/, or a good way of curing the aches and pains of a systems integrator, or not half as good as beer, or best served in a clean wine glass after supper, or comes in may colours and flavors |
| 16:47.11 | theouterlinux | I do not have any xservers installed, just xserver-xorg-video-dummy; so I guess the log makes sense. Any recommendations on which to pick for an intel Atom? I guess xserver...-intel? |
| 16:47.22 | omnipotentduo | netbook? |
| 16:47.50 | theouterlinux | Old Acer Aspire One ZG5; yes |
| 16:48.07 | omnipotentduo | i used to use #! on my aspire |
| 16:49.01 | omnipotentduo | wait |
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| 16:49.24 | theouterlinux | I'm trying to turn it into a TTY machine and use a little RAM as possible. I did have OpenSUSE 13.2 with kernel 4.12 running on it before I replaced it with Devuan minimum. |
| 16:49.42 | theouterlinux | Right now, its at 40MB RAM. |
| 16:49.54 | omnipotentduo | i reread that |
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| 17:01.30 | omnipotentduo | I'm in the middle of getting my system off the ground, got devuan installed last night, crashed woke up and all 8 of my fans are trying to pick my computer up |
| 17:02.37 | fsmithred | something using a lot of cpu? |
| 17:02.47 | omnipotentduo | that's the funny part |
| 17:03.16 | omnipotentduo | not outside the norm idle load, even my video card was reading low |
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| 17:03.26 | omnipotentduo | all my temps looked amazing though |
| 17:03.34 | omnipotentduo | so i got case airflow perfect. |
| 17:03.34 | fsmithred | what does top show? |
| 17:04.15 | omnipotentduo | 8% xorg, 4% firefox |
| 17:04.32 | aitor | lol, fsmithred and OxFEEDBACC: 1984 (by Geroge Orwell), a book recommended bu rms several times... |
| 17:05.47 | fsmithred | especially the appendix (newspeak) |
| 17:06.03 | theouterlinux | Ok, so I install xserver-xorg-video-intel and ran startx, but an odd looking version of a terminal shows up and typing doesn't do anything. |
| 17:06.10 | fsmithred | omnipotentduo, I wanted to tell you to install noscript to quiet the fans, but I guess that won't help here |
| 17:06.32 | fsmithred | lol, theouterlinux IT WORKS! |
| 17:06.43 | fsmithred | you might be happier with a window manager |
| 17:06.57 | omnipotentduo | fsmithred, yeah tried that theory |
| 17:07.01 | fsmithred | jwm or icewm will work and will use less than 100mb |
| 17:07.14 | aitor | George* |
| 17:07.16 | fsmithred | typing should work |
| 17:07.31 | theouterlinux | I might just install a useless dinky DE and then just switch to TTY and be happy about it :/ |
| 17:07.41 | fsmithred | there's an xserver-xorg-input or something like that |
| 17:08.11 | aitor | you've been talking about openrc |
| 17:08.12 | aitor | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.31 | fsmithred | I don't know anything about openrc yet |
| 17:08.37 | OxFEEDBACC | when no window manager is running, you may have to move the pointer over the window for it to retrieve input events... |
| 17:09.11 | OxFEEDBACC | receive even... :-/ |
| 17:09.48 | omnipotentduo | between not being able to get wine working and my fans blowing my house away, the install and other set ups went smoothly |
| 17:11.58 | theouterlinux | https://medium.com/@racter/how-to-install-ubuntu-16-04-on-a-retina-macbook-11-2-74e7779c0e47 |
| 17:12.33 | theouterlinux | It's might actually work even though it's technically meant for MacBook and Ubuntu. |
| 17:13.10 | theouterlinux | I did it to my Xubuntu install on my MacBook and the fans are silent but running. |
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| 17:20.03 | fsmithred | omnipotentduo, did you try thinkfan (not just for thinkpads) |
| 17:20.43 | aitor | need to reboot: i downloaded refracta8_nox_amd64, i have to build linux-libre-4.9.40 for this architecture |
| 17:20.49 | omnipotentduo | i'm actually looking at a fan control thread from 05 that has good info on how to handle controls |
| 17:20.52 | aitor | it's done in i386 http://gnuinos.org/linux-libre-4.9.40/ |
| 17:21.00 | aitor | bye |
| 17:21.29 | omnipotentduo | funny part is my system's relatively new |
| 17:23.07 | aitor | tomorrow is my birthday, i like this one: |
| 17:23.08 | aitor | https://shop.spreadshirt.net/devuan/devuan+v-shirt-A106229020 |
| 17:23.58 | omnipotentduo | OH its because everything is PWM in my case, holy can of worms and tornados batman |
| 17:24.02 | fsmithred | happy birthday aitor |
| 17:24.21 | aitor | thanks, bye |
| 17:24.27 | fsmithred | bye |
| 17:31.57 | omnipotentduo | is lm-sensors broken? |
| 17:32.43 | fsmithred | no, I use lm-sensors |
| 17:33.20 | omnipotentduo | weird, I can't use the command for some reason even with sudo/root privlages |
| 17:33.48 | fsmithred | did you run sensors-detect? |
| 17:33.58 | omnipotentduo | ohly crap i didn't even think |
| 17:34.18 | omnipotentduo | i have been away too long |
| 17:48.48 | omnipotentduo | awesome got most of my fan issue ironed out, now to fix wine |
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| 17:55.25 | fsmithred | omnipotentduo, what are you using to control the fans? |
| 17:56.28 | omnipotentduo | now i'm using pwm |
| 17:56.45 | fsmithred | what's that? |
| 17:56.57 | omnipotentduo | gah just closed the window the one that thinkpads use |
| 17:57.42 | omnipotentduo | pwmconfig |
| 17:57.51 | omnipotentduo | its not in the devuan repos |
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| 18:37.31 | nextime | golinux: please tell all that i will be back to present my solution on Wed, i'm re-build my home network thanks to the container arrived here in SA last week :) |
| 18:37.54 | fsmithred | welcome back |
| 18:37.54 | nextime | and i have some connection issue those days cause of that |
| 18:38.29 | Evilham | good that you have your stuff with you :) |
| 18:39.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi nextime! :-) |
| 18:40.01 | golinux | Wonderful news, nextime |
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| 18:40.57 | golinux | I will post a pad possibly tomorrow so you can add notes (but keep a copy in case of another failure) |
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| 19:12.19 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 20:19.15 | TheOuterLinux | I think I ran into a weird bug. When I try to cat the .Xauthority file in my home folder with Devuan minimum, the current tty goes bonkers with odd symbols replacing the letters. Typing "reset" fixes it. In all fairness, I have x started (lwm) in other tty's. |
| 20:22.30 | TheOuterLinux | Any way to get xterm or something similar to launch after starting x so I can at least have a way to open GUI programs if I need them. I've got lwm installed as my window manager since it is just a black screen and a mouse with nothing else. |
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| 20:33.35 | Xenguy | $ file .Xauthority |
| 20:33.36 | Xenguy | .Xauthority: X11 Xauthority data |
| 20:34.04 | Xenguy | $ less .Xauthority |
| 20:34.06 | Xenguy | ".Xauthority" may be a binary file. See it anyway? |
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| 20:46.59 | TheOuterLinux | Even if it's a binary file, why would cat make all the other text turn into symbols, including trying to type normal characters? This is in TTY. |
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| 20:52.31 | Xenguy | $ cat .Xauthority |
| 20:52.33 | Xenguy | devuan0MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1��ϣw1�*����|�user@hostname:~$ |
| 20:52.55 | Xenguy | My TTY remains sane also (no 'reset' needed) |
| 20:53.37 | Xenguy | But (and not to hijack your thread), the default fontsize in the TTY is stupidly small... |
| 20:54.05 | Xenguy | I don't know why anyone ever messed with the default 'large font' setups of yesteryear |
| 20:54.44 | Xenguy | And I have no idea how to configure the font size to be larger (I have a dim memory of something called 'consolefont' or some such) |
| 20:55.33 | TheOuterLinux | My output: devuan1MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1âÃÃÃY4ÃãÃýâáåpsâ¤câos@deâ´â¤ââ¼:·$ |
| 20:57.02 | TheOuterLinux | I don't know how they got copy and paste and a pseudo mouse working, but coodos (however you spell it). |
| 20:57.15 | Xenguy | I see 2 packages that may be relevant to my issue: console-setup and console-setup-mini |
| 20:58.00 | fsmithred | dpkg-reconfigure console-setup |
| 20:58.15 | Xenguy | TheOuterLinux: I cheated and tested in the TTY, then tried it in an xterm, and when I saw the output was the same, I copy/pasted from X |
| 20:58.32 | Xenguy | fsmithred: As always, thank you |
| 20:59.21 | Xenguy | TheOuterLinux: I believe the spelling is 'kudos' |
| 21:00.18 | TheOuterLinux | I'm in TTY with irssi and copy and pasted it over from tty5 tty4. I really think the copy and paste thing is awesome though. |
| 21:01.17 | Xenguy | TheOuterLinux: Did you use something like gpm for copy/pasting at the console, or ...? |
| 21:02.00 | Xenguy | (I usually use screen's copy/paste function when I'm at the console) |
| 21:03.08 | TheOuterLinux | No. If I move my mouse in TTY, then a white block I can move around shows up. I can highlight with it and where ever I right-click, it pastes whatever was highlighted. |
| 21:03.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((why would cat make all the other text turn into symbols)) related to ShuftIn/ShiftOut or somesuch. Possibly also escape sequences |
| 21:03.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | expected behavior |
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| 21:06.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | `man ascii` |
| 21:06.37 | Xenguy | TheOuterLinux: Sounds like gpm then |
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| 21:07.12 | Xenguy | tries to find the traditional large font configuration at the TTY ... |
| 21:10.46 | Xenguy | Couldn't find it, so went with 'Terminus' (11x22) which seems sane enough |
| 21:11.58 | fsmithred | Xenguy, it's called VGA and you have to scroll down |
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| 21:17.51 | Xenguy | fsmithred: Yeah, after trying a few iterations, VGA seems closest, though the font rendering is far more ragged than I've experienced in the past, so I went with another configuration with a larger font size. Does the trick :) |
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| 21:22.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, re SI/SO: maybe also related to UTF-8 |
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| 21:45.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | echo -e '\e(0 test \e(B' |
| 21:46.18 | *** join/#devuan psychos (~psychos@75.190.82.121) |
| 21:49.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-)) echo -e '\e(0lqqqqqqqqqqk\nx x\nx x\nx x\nmqqqqqqqqqqj\e(B' |
| 21:50.11 | psychos | Ok, so I just solved my problem with mpv. I installed lwm as a window manager and then edited the xinitrc file to include xterm. So basically, I can now launch any GUI application as needed without an actually DE by just doing "startx" and typing the desired GUI application and still be able to switch between tty's as needed. I got Bill and Ted playing in tty1 while using irssi in tty2. :) |
| 21:55.45 | psychos | Anyone know how to kill x though? |
| 21:55.56 | Xiaoman | `pkill X` |
| 21:57.30 | psychos | Oh ok; cool. That even killed all the other x sessions. |
| 21:57.52 | fsmithred | yikes |
| 21:57.54 | fsmithred | lol |
| 21:58.00 | Xiaoman | Yeah, you didn't specify what you wanted :P |
| 21:58.24 | fsmithred | alt-prntscrn-k |
| 21:58.32 | psychos | It's fine; anyway to be more specific for each tty? |
| 21:58.45 | fsmithred | will restart it if you have a display manager running |
| 21:58.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 21:59.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | vtrl+alt+backspace? |
| 21:59.16 | fsmithred | no longer |
| 21:59.21 | fsmithred | not for a long time |
| 21:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | tztztz |
| 21:59.33 | fsmithred | maybe if you set it in xorg.conf |
| 22:00.01 | fsmithred | also, not all magic sysrq keys are enabled |
| 22:00.07 | fsmithred | I think that started with wheezy |
| 22:00.40 | Xiaoman | psychos: Yes, many ways. |
| 22:00.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, alt+prt+k is magicsysreq? |
| 22:01.03 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 22:01.11 | psychos | Let's say I have a DVD playing in tty1, typing with nano in tty2, and firefox in tty3, how do I end X in tty1 only? |
| 22:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | kill _this_? |
| 22:02.17 | fsmithred | how many x-sessions are you logged into? |
| 22:02.49 | fsmithred | and how did you get there? |
| 22:03.08 | Xiaoman | psychos: Make a little script to find the session with `ps`, `grep` etc |
| 22:03.16 | Xiaoman | Then `kill` it |
| 22:03.27 | fsmithred | DocScrutinizer05, echo kernel.sysrq=1 >> /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 22:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm he left |
| 22:08.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | kill `ps --tty tty1 --format pid --no-headers` |
| 22:11.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Xiaoman: ^^^ your "little script" ;-) |
| 22:12.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: that's already standard on my machines |
| 22:12.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: just wondering _what_ the "k(ill)" does actually kill |
| 22:13.25 | Xiaoman | DocScrutinizer05: ahh yeah |
| 22:13.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | for obvious reasons I hardly ever tried it ;-) |
| 22:13.39 | fsmithred | I don't know. I couldn't figure out what he was doing. |
| 22:14.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I assumed "k" would take an argument like PID or whatever |
| 22:14.48 | fsmithred | startx, ctrl-alt-F2, startx -- :1, crtl-alt-F3, startx -- :2, etc. |
| 22:15.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's prolly what he did, yes |
| 22:16.15 | fsmithred | and maybe wants to kill one without going into it to log out |
| 22:16.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
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| 22:19.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway what's the syntax/semantics of sysreq+k ? |
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| 22:21.38 | fsmithred | you mean the numbers? |
| 22:22.02 | fsmithred | I think all you can do is press keys |
| 22:22.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sysrq+h(elp) only tells "sak(k)" |
| 22:22.43 | fsmithred | the meaning of the different letters and the number codes for which ones are active is in kernel docs somewhere |
| 22:22.51 | rrq | (if nothing else works, ask google) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key |
| 22:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean *which* process gets killed by sysrq+k |
| 22:23.05 | fsmithred | I'm in the process of trying to figure that out |
| 22:23.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | rrq: not even that answers my question |
| 22:23.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | aa well, maybe it does: >>Kill all processes on the current virtual console (can kill X and svgalib programs, see below)<< |
| 22:25.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | so as I assumed: kill $_this_ |
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| 22:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | a 'sysrq+K+<PID>+enter' would come in handy though |
| 22:32.40 | fsmithred | it just kills the current session |
| 22:32.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 22:32.59 | fsmithred | I've got one session on tty7 through lightdm |
| 22:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever that may be. It kills all processes attached to that VT |
| 22:33.09 | fsmithred | and another on tty2 from startx |
| 22:33.17 | fsmithred | yeah, that would work |
| 22:36.24 | Xenguy | That brings back some nostalgic memories for me, hanging out in TTY land :) |
| 22:36.40 | Xenguy | Sorry, was responding to up buffer |
| 22:37.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, I *always* have at least one VT active, just in case X11 and in there konqueror or whatever goes bonkers once again |
| 22:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | when pressing ctrl+alt+F1 is the very first thing you do, you got good chances to actually do something about hogged CPU and memory still |
| 22:41.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | a `renice -10 $$` also helps when done preemptively on that VT |
| 22:43.23 | Xenguy | Does that give everything a low priority? |
| 22:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | this increases priority of the shell on that VT |
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| 22:44.09 | Xenguy | hrm, good idea |
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| 22:44.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | $$ = own PID |
| 22:44.54 | Xenguy | Man I seem to be learning so much today, thanks for that |
| 22:45.35 | Xenguy | You have to be root to do that I assume? |
| 22:48.18 | Xenguy | Man page confirms that I believe. |
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| 23:03.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, to increase prio /reduce niceness) you need root privs |
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