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| 00:04.55 | fsmithred | I haven't used OSS since 2000 |
| 00:05.36 | bozonius | it appears interest in OSS, even OSS4, is rather waning, from what I've read about it these few minutes since blurting the question |
| 00:06.36 | bozonius | seems that the original open source was taken private, which (as usual) miffed a lot of folks, then the company that took it private opened it up again... <sigh> |
| 00:07.11 | bozonius | maybe that whole episode left a bad taste for many and that's why it no longer seems to have much street value |
| 00:07.51 | bozonius | well, anyway, as promised, I am reading the alsa pages to try to get a deeper understanding of sound using ALSA. |
| 00:08.27 | fsmithred | afk for a bit |
| 00:10.45 | gnarface | bozonius: alsa has been worth it. i don't know much about OSS4 other than that support for it is rare |
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| 00:34.28 | bozonius | http://alsa.opensrc.org/Dmix NOTE: For ALSA 1.0.9rc2 and higher you don't need to setup dmix for analogue output. Dmix is enabled by default for soundcards which don't support hardware mixing. You still need to set it up for digital outputs. |
| 00:34.40 | bozonius | we are running 1.0.27 or so |
| 00:40.10 | gnarface | bozonius: yea it's been on by default in the default pcm for years now, which is called literally, "default" |
| 00:40.41 | gnarface | bozonius: but you can't trust all your programs will use "default" by default, many of them do really boneheaded stuff and default to "hw:0,0" or something equally disruptive |
| 00:41.28 | gnarface | bozonius: most of the good ones have built-in controls to at least select that much, however some don't have anything and require some alsa config trickery (~/.asoundrc customizations are the common way to address this on a per-user basis) |
| 00:41.56 | bozonius | but popular programs like firefox or chromium... |
| 00:42.08 | bozonius | one would think that they would get it right |
| 00:42.20 | gnarface | one would, if one was childishly naive |
| 00:42.27 | bozonius | there'd be a furor otherwise |
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| 00:43.07 | gnarface | would there be? i've never known there to be furor over any other vast injustice in the world |
| 00:43.31 | bozonius | they have literally millions of users, gnarface |
| 00:43.50 | gnarface | the same measly <= 2% of them are competent as everywhere else though |
| 00:44.06 | bozonius | look at the pushback re system-duh |
| 00:44.28 | gnarface | sorry, i get where you're coming from, and i know that this is gonna be hard for you to wrap your head around |
| 00:44.32 | gnarface | but the world is a hugely unfair place |
| 00:44.40 | bozonius | no fucking kidding |
| 00:44.47 | gnarface | and largely, most of the people in it are slow on the uptake |
| 00:44.54 | gnarface | especially when it comes to "nerdy" things |
| 00:45.08 | bozonius | part of it is the docs |
| 00:45.15 | gnarface | know how i know? because we wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise. Netscape would still be in business, otherwise. |
| 00:45.27 | bozonius | I'm reading the pages on alsa and they are about as clear as mud |
| 00:45.47 | gnarface | Aaron Swartz would still be alive otherwise |
| 00:45.58 | bozonius | poory written, typos galore, attrocious grammar (making me re-read the same parts over and over again) |
| 00:46.26 | bozonius | punctuation and other problems all of which make it hard for newbies to read |
| 00:46.27 | gnarface | yea volunteer donated by english-as-a-third-language speakers |
| 00:46.38 | gnarface | it's neither here nor there |
| 00:46.43 | bozonius | and then you argue the 98% of us are idiots? |
| 00:46.51 | gnarface | look |
| 00:46.56 | gnarface | here's what keeps me going every day |
| 00:47.09 | bozonius | do tell... |
| 00:47.10 | gnarface | the blind hope that maybe, just maybe, ONLY 98% of everyone is idiots |
| 00:47.24 | bozonius | you are making this hard |
| 00:47.55 | gnarface | this is another common misconception: i didn't do it |
| 00:48.10 | gnarface | they were all already broken before i was born, as far as i've been able to tell |
| 00:48.14 | bozonius | (not saying that) |
| 00:48.47 | djph | gnarface: what're you on about? |
| 00:48.50 | bozonius | how are we supposed to get this information so we can actually FUCKING understand these technical nuances? |
| 00:49.11 | gnarface | bozonius: so, when it comes to funded software that moves MILLIONS of dollars, the first rule is to stop assuming anything but the money is the goal. if you can get past that prejudice, everything about what Mozilla is doing now makes sense. |
| 00:49.58 | bozonius | keeping millions confused and frustrated hardly seems like a useful means of making money |
| 00:50.14 | gnarface | djph: we're just having problems coming to grips with the fact that Mozilla.org appears to have turned evil |
| 00:50.26 | djph | uh |
| 00:50.37 | bozonius | I never said they (or anyone else in software) was on the good side, gnarface! |
| 00:50.37 | djph | I think you're about a decade, maybe two, late to that party |
| 00:51.07 | bozonius | I worked for years in the trade, and I what I witnessed made my stomach turn |
| 00:51.17 | bozonius | made me leave, in fact |
| 00:51.33 | djph | yay, corporate america (or whereever) |
| 00:52.06 | bozonius | last manager of a project I was on was so bad I got myself a 25 ton mega anxiety attack |
| 00:52.18 | bozonius | megaton |
| 00:52.20 | gnarface | palemoon's existence seems to be the best evidence of "furor" that i can find. it's probably the loudest it's gonna get, honestly. |
| 00:52.33 | bozonius | pop gun, imo |
| 00:52.38 | djph | last manager of a project I was on finally made me realize what the old timer had the shovel and quicklime for ... |
| 00:52.56 | bozonius | palemoon might be good for the mobile, but not the desktop (I've tried it) |
| 00:53.28 | bozonius | (djph: really, where do companies find these cretins?) |
| 00:53.30 | gnarface | well, maybe in another decade the rest of society will catch up to our perspective but for the time being they'd rather believe the lies the corporations tell them because, well, it's better than having to concede to NERDS |
| 00:53.46 | bozonius | nah |
| 00:53.49 | djph | gnarface: "NEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSS" |
| 00:54.04 | bozonius | it's because they are ignorant. Disco, baby! |
| 00:54.21 | bozonius | anyway this is the tech channel... |
| 00:54.35 | Xenguy | say my name |
| 00:54.46 | Xenguy | yer godamn right! |
| 00:54.56 | djph | "people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals." |
| 00:54.56 | Xenguy | ^^ Love that scene |
| 00:55.01 | Xenguy | hah |
| 00:55.44 | djph | "... Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." |
| 00:56.04 | Xenguy | I can only hope to know that I don't know |
| 00:56.18 | Xenguy | .oO( Just say Know ) |
| 01:03.06 | bozonius | my head hurts |
| 01:03.08 | bozonius | afk |
| 01:12.27 | gnarface | a test to try bozonius: arecord -f dat |aplay & speaker-test -c 2 -t wav |
| 01:12.52 | gnarface | (this will test dmix unless you've altered your alsa config to sabotage stock default behavior somehow) |
| 01:13.20 | gnarface | it will test dmix and full duplex recording at the same time actually |
| 01:13.42 | gnarface | if that doesn't work right, nothing else is gonna |
| 01:14.54 | gnarface | you're absolutely right that it's dumb for firefox not to just have a field in about:config for changing the default audio backend from pulse to whatever |
| 01:15.08 | gnarface | apulse is the only known workaround right now |
| 01:15.24 | gnarface | if you hear of another, let me know |
| 01:15.34 | gnarface | i can probably help you figure out alsa |
| 01:15.51 | gnarface | i can't do anything about firefox though |
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| 01:52.04 | Toppo | hello |
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| 02:05.49 | gnarface | hello Toppo state your business |
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| 02:06.25 | Toppo | hi gnarface :D |
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| 02:37.41 | gnarface | Toppo: it's slow in here on most evenings, but if you have any questions just ask them and stay logged in. someone will answer eventually |
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| 02:44.57 | Toppo | thanks gnarface. I'm having trouble installing openjdk-8-jre, here is the log: https://p.teknik.io/NgD8c |
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| 02:45.26 | gnarface | Toppo: i tell you what. use a pastebin or paste.debian.net and i'll look at it. |
| 02:45.33 | Toppo | Ok |
| 02:46.07 | gnarface | meant to say pastebin.com not "a pastebin" |
| 02:47.06 | Toppo | http://paste.debian.net/979909/ |
| 02:47.09 | Toppo | got it |
| 02:47.14 | Toppo | ^_^ |
| 02:47.45 | djph | seems it's telling you to install the new java ca-certificates package (20161107~bpo8+1) |
| 02:48.54 | gnarface | yea, looks like you included backports then took them back out, but something you're upgrading still requires backports (probably that java 8 package itself is from backports?) |
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| 02:49.06 | gnarface | Toppo: ^^^ |
| 02:49.15 | Toppo | yes djph, but if I do that, a lot of other dependencys will broke |
| 02:49.30 | Toppo | Yes gnarface, I have backports, but they are active |
| 02:50.01 | djph | ... good god java is a shitshow if the "latest" ca-certs breaks things |
| 02:50.20 | gnarface | hmmm, it could still be user error |
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| 02:50.31 | *** mode/#devuan [+b *!*@redhat/mason] by ChanServ |
| 02:50.31 | *** kick/#devuan [mason!ChanServ@services.] by ChanServ (User is banned from this channel) |
| 02:50.31 | Toppo | probably ^_^ |
| 02:50.59 | gnarface | Toppo: did you try this?: aptitude -t jessie-backports install openjdk-8-jre |
| 02:51.06 | Toppo | here is mi source.list: http://paste.debian.net/979910/ |
| 02:51.16 | Toppo | gnarface no, I'll try it now |
| 02:51.42 | Toppo | lol :D |
| 02:51.47 | Toppo | it works gnarface :D |
| 02:51.48 | Toppo | haha |
| 02:51.54 | Toppo | thank you |
| 02:52.13 | gnarface | Toppo: great! no problem, happy Friday. dinner time for me, but i'll be back in a few hours probably |
| 02:52.43 | Toppo | Ok, thanks again. Have a nice dinner <3 |
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| 02:53.35 | aitor | hi, enable to access to dev1galaxy: Error: Unable to connect to PostgreSQL server. |
| 02:53.52 | aitor | https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 02:54.18 | Toppo | what's that aitor ? |
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| 02:54.30 | Toppo | something related to devuan? |
| 02:54.43 | aitor | i can't access to the forum |
| 02:54.52 | Toppo | me neither |
| 02:55.18 | Toppo | same issue here |
| 02:55.32 | Toppo | can't connect to postgresql |
| 02:57.38 | aitor | let's hope tomorrow :) |
| 02:58.00 | Toppo | :D |
| 02:58.18 | aitor | bye :) |
| 03:00.46 | Toppo | bb |
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| 03:55.37 | TheOuterLinux | I have a weird question/challenge for Devuan minimum. Devuan minimum has frame buffering, but I can't get mpv --vo=drm or opengl to work. Any reason for this? I don't want to install a bunch of unecessary xorg packages and loose booting up to TTY. |
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| 04:27.52 | golinux | bozonius: Try arch wiki alsa pages/ |
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| 07:06.45 | bozonius | when I run the test gnarface suggests, I get lines like these (and no sound): overrun!!! (at least 0.027 ms long) |
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| 07:21.23 | gnarface | bozonius: even on the host, without pulseaudio? |
| 07:21.55 | bozonius | this was on Devuan guest VM, w/o PA |
| 07:21.56 | gnarface | bozonius: and nothing else accessing the soundcard at that time, and the capture volume for the mic selected and unmuted in alsamixer, with the volume up (on the *capture* tab not the playback tab) |
| 07:22.27 | gnarface | should work, barring a driver bug that suggests an alsa.conf problem |
| 07:26.37 | bozonius | hold on; my bad |
| 07:26.46 | bozonius | I had FF running, so that was an invalid test |
| 07:26.55 | gnarface | but if it's in a guest, i *think* it can *also* be a alsa.conf problem on the host *or* in the VM itself |
| 07:26.57 | bozonius | I killed ff (still Devuan VM now) |
| 07:27.21 | bozonius | sorry, I just wasted your time b/c I didn't do the test correctly |
| 07:27.33 | muep | also could be something specific to what mechanism is used to get sound out from the VM |
| 07:27.54 | bozonius | I just ran it again and no errors. I hear "front left, front right" repeatedly (but nothing else) I did not speak during the test |
| 07:27.56 | muep | at least qemu/kvm has many options and I'd guess virtualbox has some of its own |
| 07:28.31 | gnarface | bozonius: were you still getting overrun errors? |
| 07:28.38 | bozonius | no, no errors |
| 07:28.53 | bozonius | sound was clear, undistorted |
| 07:28.54 | gnarface | bozonius: did you check the capture tab in alsamixer? you might not have the mic selected |
| 07:29.25 | muep | what kind of VM is this? |
| 07:29.30 | gnarface | bozonius: when i run that here, even if i don't speak, i can clearly hear the ambient noise of the room coming through over the speaker-test |
| 07:29.49 | bozonius | let me do this again, speaking while it runs... |
| 07:30.15 | gnarface | bozonius: you can run the speaker-test in a separate terminal from the arecord|aplay commands if you want |
| 07:30.27 | bozonius | ok I can hear myself echoed through speakers and the speaker-test output also |
| 07:30.37 | gnarface | ok |
| 07:30.39 | gnarface | so that works |
| 07:30.46 | gnarface | but firefox jams it |
| 07:30.47 | bozonius | (sorry for my bumbling) |
| 07:30.50 | bozonius | right |
| 07:31.03 | gnarface | no worries, i had trouble with this part at first too |
| 07:31.11 | gnarface | this is the part pulseaudio (badly) hides from the user |
| 07:31.34 | gnarface | it's because it's stripped down more or less to very little other than the basic hardware features |
| 07:31.57 | bozonius | JACK supposedly does a better job, but it is still a "layer" on top of ALSA, and can still have at least some latency |
| 07:32.07 | gnarface | yes, you might often hear stuttering in pulseaudio while doing this |
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| 07:34.02 | gnarface | so, probably, if firefox does this in ANY VM, it will do it to ALL of them AND the host at once |
| 07:34.14 | gnarface | because they're sharing one soundcard |
| 07:34.19 | gnarface | it's a physical limitation |
| 07:34.34 | gnarface | (you could use multiple soundcards though but most people just upgrade to one that does hardware mixing) |
| 07:35.22 | muep | I do not think the VM has normally access to the soundcard |
| 07:35.33 | bozonius | My soundcard is onboard. And it's about 3-4 years old, though the model may be older |
| 07:35.55 | bozonius | ASUS M5A78L/USB3 |
| 07:36.04 | gnarface | muep: well it has to if you're gonna play sound |
| 07:36.17 | bozonius | no, I can always add a separate card |
| 07:36.17 | gnarface | muep: i didn't say whether i thought it was a good idea or not |
| 07:36.34 | muep | usually the VM hypervisor provides an emulated soundcard that is implemented purely in software. then the guest os writes audio samples to a buffer in that emulated sound card and the emulated audio card implementation copies samples from there to actual sound card |
| 07:36.39 | bozonius | I am pretty sure there is a soundcard around here... |
| 07:37.03 | gnarface | bozonius: well, now that you understand how the conflict occurs, you in theory could avoid it too |
| 07:37.19 | gnarface | though with newer firefoxes you'll need pulseaudio or apulse |
| 07:37.23 | bozonius | muep: In the interests of efficiency and removing latency, the vbox devs may have taken a different approach |
| 07:37.24 | gnarface | i don't know any way to avoid that problem yet |
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| 07:38.24 | gnarface | anyway |
| 07:38.31 | gnarface | i'm gonna go back zelda for a while |
| 07:38.34 | gnarface | but i'll return |
| 07:39.47 | bozonius | say hello to zelda for me |
| 07:40.03 | bozonius | wonders who the heck is Zelda? |
| 07:40.18 | muep | if I was using audio a lot from a VM I might actually enable the TCP transport in my VM host and set up pulseaudio-compatible applications inside the VM to connect directly to the host |
| 07:40.44 | muep | at least the networking path between VM host and guest has received some special optimizations for efficiency |
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| 08:05.40 | bozonius | muep: That sounds like ONE of the things pulse does. In fact, I did it once a number of years ago. |
| 08:06.02 | bozonius | this wasn't between a VM and a host though. This was between two pieces of HW. |
| 08:06.54 | muep | I used it between hardware, too, at some point |
| 08:07.38 | bozonius | it was useful enough. Don't know how I'd have done it otherwise. The netcat methodology being kicked around here doesn't sound very nice to me. |
| 08:07.46 | bozonius | I like pretty things, like flowers. |
| 08:07.52 | bozonius | and kittens. |
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| 08:08.29 | bozonius | Like, I don't even like seeing grease ooze running down the size of the oven. |
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| 12:27.45 | utente | hi. installed a raid 1 under devuan 1.0. 2 disk WD Green. ram of pc is 3GiBi, cpu dualcore atlon64. fact: as single disk, both disks can reach 57MB/s on write operation (when i transfer file larger some GiBi or i do test with dd if=/dev/zero of=file). build of raid gone ok (i did it during devuan installation). bot disks has a single partition (sda1 and sdb1) dedicated to be member of raid. Devuan is installed on sdc |
| 12:27.45 | utente | disk. no Graphic intercace, no unuseful background daemon running (i istalle bare CLI interace from 1st cd of devuan). raid1 resync take at least 3 days but it completed. some tests: if i do dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/on/raid1/test bs=1M count=102400 i can archive a poor 15MB/s. dd take about 21% of one core, so there is not bottleneck by cpu. if i read the same file form raid, i can get an appreciable 94 MB/s. now the |
| 12:27.45 | utente | question: is correct i got so poor write speed of 15MB? i wist 40, at least 30MB/s. i can accept a degradate speed because of software raid, but 15MB/s is too much low. |
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| 12:31.10 | gnarface | utente: i seem to remember someone recently having the same problem and it turned out their disks were still syncing ... |
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| 12:31.50 | gnarface | utente: have you verified it? |
| 12:32.11 | utente | i came 1-2 dais ago reportin the problem, mauybe i was who you remember :-). i effectiveli turned off the pd sometime during resync: could be it a problem? |
| 12:32.23 | gnarface | oh |
| 12:32.30 | gnarface | well if you interrupted the resync, maybe |
| 12:32.31 | utente | turned of the PC* |
| 12:32.33 | gnarface | i dunno |
| 12:32.37 | utente | mmm |
| 12:32.39 | gnarface | it would at least delay it that's for sure... |
| 12:32.45 | gnarface | check iotop |
| 12:32.48 | utente | i use ext4 as fs, maybe it could impact? |
| 12:32.54 | gnarface | eh, probably not |
| 12:33.12 | gnarface | but try different block sizes maybe |
| 12:33.20 | utente | i have not iotop instlled, but id yes, what i have to loop for into iotop? |
| 12:33.37 | utente | what block sizd do you suggest_? |
| 12:33.55 | utente | i have not iotop installed, but if yes, what i have to look for into iotop? |
| 12:34.12 | gnarface | 512 and 4K |
| 12:34.31 | gnarface | also you can benchmark with hdparm and bonnie++ |
| 12:34.58 | gnarface | if you're not using the "performance" cpu governor it could effect things |
| 12:35.04 | gnarface | just make it slower |
| 12:35.05 | utente | hell. i must move the PC near intenet cable and instal all the utilities. |
| 12:35.15 | gnarface | oh it's not online? |
| 12:35.19 | gnarface | that's a problem |
| 12:35.24 | utente | yep. offline. |
| 12:35.32 | utente | logistical problem, yes, |
| 12:35.50 | utente | i am doing irc in one room, pc is into another room. |
| 12:36.35 | gnarface | well in theory you could install locally and copy the deb files to a usb disk from the package cache too |
| 12:37.07 | gnarface | but if the installed packages are very different between the local system and the other one that may not be as easy |
| 12:37.53 | utente | i use devuan 1.0 stable, i suppose packages did not changed so fast. |
| 12:39.13 | gnarface | should be in /var/cache/apt somewhere |
| 12:39.23 | utente | anyway: even if i use a test tool what it can tell me? all in all, i did time dd if=/.... so i know the spped reached during write and read operation. what cai i got more form iotop /bonnie++ etc? |
| 12:39.24 | gnarface | try: find /var/cache/apt -iname '*.deb' |
| 12:39.40 | gnarface | (as long as it hasn't been cleaned since you installed) |
| 12:40.12 | gnarface | iotop is like top for io |
| 12:40.17 | gnarface | for your harddrive usage |
| 12:40.21 | utente | nope, i always do apr-get clean. but those packages are not into archive, cos they are not on fist cd of devuan, the only one i used. |
| 12:40.34 | gnarface | ah, i see |
| 12:40.54 | gnarface | i'm not sure which cd they are on, i mostly netinstall |
| 12:41.00 | utente | i know iotop, i used in past and i know what it is the usage. but i cannot se what more information it can give me |
| 12:41.12 | gnarface | oh maybe something else using it |
| 12:41.51 | utente | let me go there to see if hdparm is avaiable. maibe it is not activated the dma. |
| 12:44.30 | gnarface | also you asked if ext4 might be the problem, so i suggested bonnie++ to do some checks of that |
| 12:45.07 | gnarface | when you format with ext4 you can set block size at format time |
| 12:45.29 | gnarface | you should check the specs on those drives to make sure the block sizes match if they're 1k or 4k |
| 12:45.35 | gnarface | (not possible if it's 512 i think) |
| 12:45.46 | gnarface | all this will help at little, at least |
| 12:46.06 | gnarface | maybe there is something weird with those drives where they're really bad at the block size you used when you formatted them |
| 12:46.09 | gnarface | i'd believe that is possible |
| 12:46.50 | gnarface | they ARE green drives after all |
| 12:46.58 | gnarface | which means they're also only 5200RPM |
| 12:47.10 | gnarface | 5400 i mean? |
| 12:47.33 | gnarface | 5400 |
| 12:48.38 | gnarface | i also don't necessarily know for sure /dev/zero has infinite bandwith, btw |
| 12:48.53 | gnarface | did you try copying a file too? |
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| 13:01.06 | utente | i tested dd onto OS disk into home of unprivileged user, it archive 35MB/s. so no probmem of dma. |
| 13:01.51 | utente | anyway, those WD Green if used asingle disk, can archive 57 MB/s on write, so actual 11-15MB if under raid, is strnage. |
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| 13:05.01 | gnarface | definitely strange, i agree |
| 13:05.38 | gnarface | what does hdparm say about the physical/logical block sizes? |
| 13:06.02 | gnarface | just curious |
| 13:08.36 | utente | not present hdparm. i must install. |
| 13:08.54 | utente | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:10.43 | enyc | meeps |
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| 13:32.54 | utente | gnarface, hdparm /dev/md0 report radhonly =0, readhead= 256 |
| 13:36.40 | gnarface | i was thinking more like: /sbin/hdparm -I /dev/sda|grep -i 'logical\|physical' |
| 13:36.50 | utente | ok let me do qait. |
| 13:38.07 | utente | it report logical/phisical sectos size= 412 bytes |
| 13:38.25 | gnarface | try to dd with that instead |
| 13:38.34 | gnarface | bs=412 |
| 13:38.39 | gnarface | i assume you menat 512? |
| 13:38.41 | gnarface | bs=512 |
| 13:38.50 | utente | yes |
| 13:39.49 | utente | undergo. |
| 13:39.57 | utente | and run iotop on other shell |
| 13:40.08 | utente | speed seems to be the same |
| 13:40.34 | gnarface | and iotop shows that 99% of io is dd? |
| 13:40.37 | utente | total disk write dance between 8 and 15 mb/s |
| 13:40.40 | gnarface | hmm |
| 13:40.51 | gnarface | are you using LVM too? |
| 13:40.52 | utente | dd is at 84% into iotop |
| 13:41.09 | utente | jbd2/md0-8 is at 96% |
| 13:41.14 | utente | no lvm. |
| 13:41.18 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 13:41.28 | utente | kworker at 44% |
| 13:41.33 | gnarface | where's the other 12% going? |
| 13:41.37 | utente | ext4lazyint at 4% |
| 13:41.52 | utente | i dont know. |
| 13:42.07 | utente | now dds at 82% |
| 13:42.10 | utente | stable |
| 13:42.58 | utente | now 84% |
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| 13:44.37 | gnarface | well the whole point of running iotop was to find out where the rest is going |
| 13:45.13 | gnarface | try `iotop -a` to show totals and use the left/right arrows to sort by read/write |
| 13:45.34 | utente | dd finished, it copied 2.6GB at 12.3 MB/s. |
| 13:45.39 | utente | ok |
| 13:45.42 | utente | i do again |
| 13:47.28 | utente | jbd2/md0-8 = 99%. dd =81%. kworker=47% md0_raid=9% |
| 13:47.48 | utente | the oter service tale less than 0.1% |
| 13:48.33 | utente | i guess: because the service involving md0 is at 99%, maybe the system is already at mazxymun efforto possible? |
| 13:49.03 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 13:49.07 | gnarface | i don' |
| 13:49.11 | gnarface | i don't know |
| 13:49.36 | gnarface | what does iotop say when you're not running dd? does io go to almost 0? or is there still something using up 12% of it at all times? |
| 13:50.06 | utente | now dd ended. |
| 13:50.21 | utente | jbd still at 99 |
| 13:50.53 | utente | then kworker 48%, ext4lazyint 13%, md0_raid1=4% |
| 13:51.18 | gnarface | does it change after a while? |
| 13:51.33 | gnarface | i would assume it would be mirroring for some time |
| 13:52.22 | utente | now jdb2 down to 75% |
| 13:52.41 | utente | 70 |
| 13:52.50 | utente | go down and down |
| 13:53.00 | utente | 66 |
| 13:53.26 | utente | i wait till it will get stable value |
| 13:54.34 | gnarface | utente: https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/Ext4_Filesystem#Lazy_Initialization |
| 13:54.43 | gnarface | i bet that's where that 12% is going, at least |
| 13:54.46 | gnarface | so it's still formatting |
| 13:55.07 | gnarface | because ext4 actually formats REAAALY slow in real life |
| 13:55.14 | gnarface | so that's probably your bottleneck too |
| 13:55.27 | utente | wtf! |
| 13:55.39 | utente | could be. really could be. |
| 13:55.51 | gnarface | yea, now imagine that overhead doubled while it gets copied to the second disk |
| 13:55.58 | utente | i guess to move or not to other fs |
| 13:56.17 | gnarface | eh, it'll eventually be done |
| 13:56.24 | utente | there is a way to see how much wait thil formatting finish? |
| 13:56.35 | gnarface | probably but i have no idea |
| 13:57.07 | gnarface | a 1TB disk might take a good several hours |
| 13:57.15 | gnarface | it also might have to start over from scratch if you stop it |
| 13:57.35 | gnarface | it wouldn't be unexpected for it to take a day or two |
| 13:57.36 | utente | so ath this point the only way is to wait untill ext4lazy disappear |
| 13:57.45 | gnarface | yea maybe |
| 13:57.51 | gnarface | maybe just dont worry about it for a couple days |
| 13:57.58 | utente | got it. |
| 13:58.27 | gnarface | next time, if you remember to, you can probably choose to format them up front |
| 13:58.37 | gnarface | you may have to select "expert mode" at installation time though |
| 13:58.38 | utente | many take for support in search and smash bug |
| 13:58.44 | gnarface | no problem |
| 13:58.49 | gnarface | you're welcome |
| 13:59.00 | utente | to format them up front. what do you mena with "up front"? |
| 13:59.05 | gnarface | like, during install |
| 13:59.15 | gnarface | instead of as the disk is being written to like it's doing now basicall |
| 13:59.18 | gnarface | basically* |
| 13:59.38 | utente | durin install i got optio only to create raid, ot to format it also iirc. |
| 14:00.02 | gnarface | i do know other filesystems can do it faster |
| 14:00.07 | gnarface | ext4 resizes super slow too |
| 14:00.14 | gnarface | but it's not uncommon |
| 14:00.42 | utente | in past i user XFS ant it was good but it need UPS to preserve electrical shortage. ant i have not ups. |
| 14:01.16 | bill-auger | is the bittorrent broken? i get scrape errors from both 2 trackers |
| 14:01.21 | utente | i should explore reiser4. i past reiser3 was good i used on kernel 2.4 but after the problem to main developer it was adbandoned. |
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| 14:54.25 | bill-auger | k goos now my bad |
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| 15:57.00 | romo | hey guys, regarding a Jessie Desktop Live Install: is it possible to turn on the 'use uuid in /etc/fstab' afterwards? |
| 15:57.16 | romo | *option |
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| 16:00.49 | utente | romo, u have to rename also the dhh with new uuid |
| 16:02.56 | fsmithred | romo, afterward when? |
| 16:03.28 | fsmithred | after you leave the options window, no. but you can stop the installer and start over. |
| 16:03.53 | fsmithred | whole install only takes about 10 minutes |
| 16:05.06 | romo | utente: thanks, doesn't sound familiar though. maybe reinstall might be quicker in that case... |
| 16:05.21 | romo | fsmithred: install is already done, but encountered some 'problems' |
| 16:05.22 | fsmithred | romo, where are you in the install? |
| 16:05.33 | romo | will the uuid option work with encrypted root? |
| 16:05.35 | fsmithred | what problems? |
| 16:05.51 | fsmithred | if it won't, it'll tell you |
| 16:06.00 | fsmithred | there's something around there that won't work |
| 16:06.13 | fsmithred | maybe labels. I forget, but hang on and I'll check. |
| 16:06.22 | romo | yeah... alright, here's the extended problem: |
| 16:07.23 | fsmithred | UUIDs in fstab won't work with encrypted filesystems and |
| 16:07.24 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.32 | romo | set up encrypted root, separate boot, no uuid (cause I think it was complaining). disconnected all drives except system to not mess things up |
| 16:07.47 | fsmithred | good so far |
| 16:07.56 | romo | now the system will only boot/unlock if there are absolutely no other drives connected... |
| 16:08.09 | fsmithred | ok |
| 16:08.38 | fsmithred | there should be uuids in grub.cfg |
| 16:08.46 | romo | I have full access to the encrypted root if I boot from live medium, unlock and mount, no problem |
| 16:08.58 | fsmithred | ok |
| 16:10.38 | romo | could you expand on that, I'm super noobish regarding grub... or what to do now. |
| 16:10.56 | fsmithred | hang on, I'm checking my own setup to see how it's done |
| 16:11.06 | fsmithred | I'm using labels in fstab, not uuid |
| 16:11.12 | fsmithred | but I know grub uses uuid |
| 16:11.50 | fsmithred | and it can be confusing because the physical volume gets a uuid and the filesystems inside it get their own |
| 16:12.41 | fsmithred | did it boot correctly with only the one hard drive? |
| 16:13.09 | romo | I'll second that confusing part. So if I reinstall, disable UUID and enable Lables instead I should be fine? |
| 16:13.45 | fsmithred | no, sorry. labels won't work with encryption, either. |
| 16:14.11 | romo | it tried to unlock the corect volume but failed at it as if you enter the pw incorrectly. error message reads: 'Cryptsetup: unknown fstype, bad password or options?' |
| 16:15.33 | fsmithred | are you familiar with booting from grub command line? |
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| 16:15.56 | romo | on second thought, theres a small possibility it grabbed the wrong drive. I have one more that is set up similar, I just remembered, sorry. |
| 16:16.06 | fsmithred | more than small |
| 16:16.18 | fsmithred | np |
| 16:16.49 | fsmithred | I have three drives, grub is installed to all of them, from squeeze, wheezy and jessie |
| 16:17.00 | romo | super unfamiliar, I always set up one bootloader per drive... |
| 16:17.23 | fsmithred | you might need to play with drive order in bios |
| 16:17.40 | fsmithred | or possibly get to the boot device menu and select the hard drive |
| 16:18.00 | fsmithred | which is what I have to do |
| 16:19.05 | romo | just thought: should this not be fine if I reinstall after connecting the system drive to sata1, since it will no longer switch position upon connecting other stuff |
| 16:19.13 | msiism | d1g forum seems to be down. |
| 16:19.31 | fsmithred | msiism, yeah, folks have been working on it all morning |
| 16:19.47 | fsmithred | there's a trouble ticket in to the hosting service |
| 16:19.59 | fsmithred | and a fallback plan working |
| 16:20.47 | fsmithred | so waiting for cloudatcost response or sunrise in australia. whichever comes first. |
| 16:21.38 | fsmithred | romo, I didn't understand your last statement |
| 16:22.37 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, thanks |
| 16:22.43 | fsmithred | if the drive is not in the first port, then yeah, the system no longer sees it as first because you plugged stuff in front of it |
| 16:22.58 | fsmithred | easy test: get the boot device menu and select |
| 16:23.16 | fsmithred | some key should get you there at post screen |
| 16:23.31 | fsmithred | F12, F8, ESC, it should tell you |
| 16:24.03 | fsmithred | although it still might have problems |
| 16:24.42 | romo | yes. now that you mention it: I can be certain I hit the right drive. Cause the bootloader loocks differently for the others. |
| 16:25.17 | fsmithred | but it might think it's supposed to be /dev/sda but it's now something else |
| 16:25.37 | fsmithred | reboot and press c at grub boot menu |
| 16:25.53 | fsmithred | can you tell the drives apart by what partitions they have? |
| 16:27.08 | romo | well, there's some similar. in the mainboard boot menu they have sort of 'extensions'. does it display partition size? with sizes I can tell them apart. |
| 16:27.49 | fsmithred | I don't remember, but I can usually tell them apart |
| 16:28.10 | fsmithred | not gonna lose anything by booting, so try it |
| 16:28.20 | fsmithred | let me know when you get to the grub prompt |
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| 16:29.16 | romo | is it very complicated? I have a shortage of machines atm and I'm on the one in question... |
| 16:29.35 | fsmithred | it's a few commands |
| 16:29.45 | fsmithred | but easier if we could still talk |
| 16:29.56 | fsmithred | you would type the following at the prompt: |
| 16:30.01 | fsmithred | set root=(hd |
| 16:30.13 | fsmithred | and then press TAB (maybe twice) |
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| 16:30.23 | fsmithred | and it would tell you what hard drives you have |
| 16:30.40 | fsmithred | first is hd0, second is hd1, third hd2 |
| 16:31.18 | fsmithred | then to complete that line, you'd give it the partition (the one for /boot) |
| 16:31.35 | fsmithred | where's it plugged in? third sata slot? |
| 16:32.07 | romo | have to look that up in the board menu again, but something like that, yes. |
| 16:32.53 | fsmithred | anyway, when you figure out which one is the right hard drive, add the number and press TAB again (maybe twice) so you'd have something like this on the command line |
| 16:33.03 | fsmithred | set root=(hd2, |
| 16:33.12 | fsmithred | and TAB will show you the partitions |
| 16:33.29 | fsmithred | if first partition was used for /boot, then |
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| 16:33.43 | fsmithred | set root=(hd2,msdos_1) |
| 16:34.12 | fsmithred | then ENTER |
| 16:34.15 | fsmithred | then |
| 16:34.36 | fsmithred | linux /vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sdc2 |
| 16:34.53 | fsmithred | assuming your / is on second partition of third hard drive |
| 16:34.55 | fsmithred | then |
| 16:35.03 | fsmithred | initrd /initrd.img |
| 16:35.27 | fsmithred | and you can use TAB completion on any of these to make sure it really exists |
| 16:35.29 | fsmithred | then |
| 16:35.31 | fsmithred | boot |
| 16:35.41 | fsmithred | (yeah, type the word and hit enter) |
| 16:35.41 | metax | can i update my devuan jessie to stretch? |
| 16:36.05 | fsmithred | I think you'd need to change it to debian jessie first |
| 16:36.19 | fsmithred | or do you want devuan ascii? |
| 16:39.25 | romo | fsmithred: alright, thanks a lot, I'm trying it now. Should it not work, I'll try to steal hardware and come back with a 2nd rig. |
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| 16:50.38 | saptech | fsmithred, is ascii = to stretch? How do you change it from jessie to ascii? |
| 16:51.57 | fsmithred | change "jessie" to "ascii" in source.list, update and upgrade |
| 16:52.06 | fsmithred | dist-upgrade |
| 16:52.34 | saptech | ok, thanks |
| 16:52.38 | fsmithred | I'd find you some instructions, but the forum is down. Maybe at the wiki. |
| 16:52.41 | fsmithred | hang on |
| 16:53.03 | saptech | so wouldn't buster be testing for devuan? |
| 16:53.34 | fsmithred | yes, but there's no buster repo yet |
| 16:53.55 | saptech | ok, I didn't want buster now. i was just curious |
| 16:54.03 | fsmithred | not buster |
| 16:54.05 | fsmithred | beowulf |
| 16:54.12 | saptech | I think I'll upgrade to stretch |
| 16:54.16 | fsmithred | beowulf will track buster |
| 16:54.23 | fsmithred | ascii! |
| 16:54.24 | saptech | ok |
| 16:54.34 | saptech | right |
| 16:54.36 | fsmithred | don't have any debian sources in your list, or you will have trouble |
| 16:54.38 | fsmithred | also... |
| 16:54.44 | fsmithred | rsyslog won't install |
| 16:54.45 | saptech | no I don't |
| 16:54.54 | fsmithred | you have three options for workaround |
| 16:55.17 | fsmithred | either get rsyslog from jessie-backports before you upgrade to ascii |
| 16:55.31 | fsmithred | or install busybox-syslogd or syslog-ng |
| 16:55.56 | fsmithred | what desktop do you use? |
| 16:56.06 | saptech | Mate |
| 16:56.27 | fsmithred | not sure if you'll run into problems with that |
| 16:56.48 | saptech | which one have problems, plasma? |
| 16:56.56 | fsmithred | probably |
| 16:57.13 | saptech | I'll read the wiki before upgrading. thanks |
| 16:57.17 | fsmithred | for cinnamon there's a fix that involves a couple of small edits |
| 16:57.27 | fsmithred | yeah, and forum should be up again by tomorrow |
| 16:57.39 | fsmithred | lots of info there. just have to search |
| 16:58.29 | saptech | great |
| 17:12.18 | saptech | is ascii considered Testing? |
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| 17:18.58 | golinux | ascii = debian stretch |
| 17:24.30 | fsmithred | I would not use words like 'stable' or 'testing' in sources.list. Better with codenames. |
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| 17:33.26 | saptech | ok, thanks |
| 17:35.11 | romo | fsmithred: managed to identify 'hd' as 'hd0' but no idea how to get a corresponding partition letter now, I tried a lot of /dev/sdX2's no, with bingo success. |
| 17:35.49 | fsmithred | put a comma after the hd0 and hit TAB again, and it should show you the partitions |
| 17:36.00 | fsmithred | msdos_1, msdos_2, and so on |
| 17:36.32 | fsmithred | use the boot partition in the (hd0,msdos_X) piece |
| 17:36.53 | fsmithred | use / for the linux line where you have root=/dev/sdXn |
| 17:37.28 | fsmithred | hm, those X's are not the same thing. Poor choice of variables on my part. |
| 17:37.42 | romo | that seemed alright, but it just went out on me time and time again at "linx /vmlinuz..." with "no partitoin xyz found" |
| 17:39.45 | fsmithred | oh |
| 17:40.01 | fsmithred | wrong root. it's encrypted. |
| 17:40.38 | fsmithred | drawing a blank on how I do this. |
| 17:40.45 | fsmithred | I might have to reboot to try it. |
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| 17:42.52 | romo | currently trying the manual, but I still have no way to get from "hd0" to the correct letter for /dev/sdX |
| 17:44.51 | fsmithred | try using the /dev/mapper name |
| 17:45.17 | fsmithred | wait |
| 17:45.50 | fsmithred | set root=(hd0,msdos1) |
| 17:45.57 | fsmithred | no underscore like I had it before |
| 17:46.05 | fsmithred | you do have /boot on the first partition? |
| 17:46.50 | romo | I tried booting into live media, using the lsblk information, tried to count according to the board "mapping" starting with hdd0... and tried to input just everything with "sdX2" in it. |
| 17:47.34 | fsmithred | then on the linux line, use root=/dev/mapper/sda2_crypt |
| 17:48.11 | fsmithred | or root=<uuid of the filesystem> |
| 17:49.31 | romo | alright, sda2_crypt does read awfully famliar. both, "set root" and "linux /vmlinz" targeting the encrypted root partition, correct? |
| 17:49.51 | fsmithred | no |
| 17:50.00 | fsmithred | set root=(hd0,1) |
| 17:50.11 | fsmithred | that one needs to use the boot partition |
| 17:50.22 | fsmithred | on the linux line, you need to tell it where to find / |
| 17:52.42 | romo | alright, thanks. I'm gonna try another pass. |
| 17:53.03 | fsmithred | me too |
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| 18:19.14 | fsmithred | romo, any luck? |
| 18:23.32 | romo | fsmithred: Sadly no, how about you? |
| 18:23.37 | fsmithred | yes |
| 18:23.43 | fsmithred | one thing I told you wrong |
| 18:23.59 | fsmithred | on the linux line, /vmlinz will be /vmlinuz-<version> |
| 18:24.08 | fsmithred | use tab completion |
| 18:24.11 | fsmithred | same for the initrd |
| 18:24.49 | fsmithred | maybe it worked for me because I have a label on the filesystem. I used root=/dev/mapper/root_fs |
| 18:25.36 | fsmithred | oh, get the uuid for the root filesystem (I think you'll have to boot from CD or USB and open it first) |
| 18:26.08 | fsmithred | then on the linux line, you should be able to use root=uuid and type the first few numbers/letters then tab-complete it |
| 18:26.36 | fsmithred | where did it fail? any error message? |
| 18:27.33 | romo | still had no way to determine partition letter. grub doesnt offer uuid for encrypted, like you assumed and trying did not work |
| 18:28.11 | fsmithred | you shouldn't need the partition letter |
| 18:28.14 | fsmithred | oh |
| 18:28.16 | fsmithred | yes you should |
| 18:28.17 | fsmithred | shit |
| 18:29.08 | fsmithred | what's in the fstab? |
| 18:29.15 | fsmithred | for the root partition |
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| 18:29.51 | romo | I'd like to second the 'shit' part. don't know about fstab. so I boot into live, unlock and then cat fstab about uuid? |
| 18:30.11 | fsmithred | cat fstab for whatever it says for the root partition |
| 18:30.17 | fsmithred | or anything else interesting |
| 18:30.50 | fsmithred | you could then assign a label |
| 18:30.53 | fsmithred | but... |
| 18:31.00 | fsmithred | I just thought of something easier |
| 18:31.52 | fsmithred | that might be debatable, but you could chroot the installation and run grub-install and update-grub |
| 18:31.55 | romo | I was about to go encrypted lvm and torch the entire drive in the process. now I'm interested |
| 18:31.58 | fsmithred | and let grub figure it out |
| 18:32.27 | fsmithred | we should probably go to pm if you want to do that |
| 18:32.44 | fsmithred | assuming you can get here from the live session |
| 18:35.10 | romo | not sure, 2nd rig has some issues regarding getting it online. I will have to be able to recreate this on different machines. that's why I'm thinking: |
| 18:35.25 | romo | is dvd or netinst-img with encrypted lvm viable atm? |
| 18:35.39 | fsmithred | if you have a regular installer iso, you can do lvm |
| 18:35.47 | fsmithred | any of them. netinstall or dvd |
| 18:37.18 | romo | I tested dvd-img at some point and it did not seem to retrieve updates after the install (?) which left me super concerned. but if they are both ok in general terms... |
| 18:37.41 | fsmithred | if you installed with a network mirror there were no updates to be had. |
| 18:37.50 | fsmithred | you already had them |
| 18:37.51 | romo | I mean I "lose" the drive, a lot of control and rescue potetial, but I could do this on my own repeatedly without effort |
| 18:38.48 | fsmithred | what are you losing? |
| 18:40.02 | romo | the thing I liked the most about the desktop life that I could just allocate a super tiny ammount of space to the system install. If I remember correctly encrypted lvm will take up the entire drive (and wipe it for hours) |
| 18:40.21 | romo | *live, English, so difficult at times. |
| 18:40.22 | fsmithred | you can skip the wipe |
| 18:40.47 | fsmithred | and you can make the lvm container any size you want with manual partitioning (a labyrinth) |
| 18:41.14 | fsmithred | another approach would be to do the install with all the drives connected |
| 18:41.25 | fsmithred | but you better know which one is which |
| 18:42.40 | fsmithred | I've done it with three or four drives attached. The live installer will only mess with the drive(s) you tell it to use. |
| 18:44.20 | romo | yeah, I made a spreadsheet with pros and cons. thing is: next time a drive whistles in an unexpected manner I would want to swap stuff around to read smart data etc. pp. without caring. |
| 18:45.05 | romo | guess I'm heading for netinst, which is the only one I have not tried so far. |
| 18:45.33 | fsmithred | or get all the uuids during a live session and plug them into /etc/fstab and /etc/crypttab |
| 18:46.34 | fsmithred | why do you need to swap anything to read smart data? Just open a root terminal and read it from the drive. |
| 18:49.13 | romo | those would be external ones from other machines, docking station... |
| 18:49.49 | fsmithred | oh |
| 18:50.11 | fsmithred | brb need coffee |
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| 18:59.27 | romo | this isn't the worst idea in the world, except I need sugar a lot right now |
| 19:02.08 | fsmithred | back |
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| 19:08.43 | fsmithred | romo, you still here with just the one machine? |
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| 19:14.20 | romo | fsmithred: yeah. took a slight detour. I'm afraid the notebook insinsts on being offline atm. I think I'd like to try to reinstall with the netinstall image and try to limit container size like you described. |
| 19:15.15 | fsmithred | ok, find a tutorial on doing encrypted lvm at forums.debian.net or maybe at the debian wiki |
| 19:15.39 | fsmithred | if you've done encrypted install with the debian installer, it's similar logic |
| 19:15.58 | fsmithred | make the container, then make the volumes inside it |
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| 19:16.55 | fsmithred | actually, you don't need to do lvm. You just need one encrypted partition, right? |
| 19:17.41 | romo | I don't mind havin everything inside one encrypted root, yeah. |
| 19:18.48 | fsmithred | yeah, lvm will let you have encrypted swap partition. I usually use a swapfile that's on my encrypted root, so I don't need lvm |
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| 19:20.47 | romo | yeah, that's why the desktop live install seemed so appealing. Used to Debian 8 encrypted LVM Guided Install... I will try to not let it have my entire drive this time though, like you mentioned. |
| 19:21.32 | romo | fsmithred: Thanks a thousand times for putting in so much time and efford for this. |
| 19:24.24 | fsmithred | wait |
| 19:24.48 | fsmithred | watch this, it's not for lvm, but it will give you an idea of the installers logic. |
| 19:24.51 | fsmithred | http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/misc/partition_encrypt-4.ogv |
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| 19:30.15 | tdm4 | anyone here know how to fix: "Fatal error: glibc detected an invalid stdio handle"? |
| 19:50.55 | Guest27170 | file a bug? |
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| 19:57.16 | ca-on-adam | The forums are down. |
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| 20:51.06 | ca-on-adam | Does anyone care that the forums are down? Or do you already know? |
| 20:51.23 | fsmithred | we know |
| 20:51.29 | fsmithred | thanks. working on it. |
| 20:51.37 | ca-on-adam | Ok |
| 20:51.46 | golinux | I'm in forum withdrawal! |
| 20:52.00 | fsmithred | I went and read the debian forum today |
| 20:52.26 | golinux | I check the debian forum every day. |
| 20:55.02 | romo | fsmithred: the need for candy shopping lured me away previously. thanks a lot for the video, the lord knows I'll need it. First attempt without (I just had to) faild. I'll practice this a few month in a vm now and then go again. |
| 20:55.38 | DeFender1031 | Speaking of debian, what's the deal with Ascii? Debian replaced jessie as stable a while ago. |
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| 20:55.43 | fsmithred | note the -4 at the end of the filename. That's how many attempts it took to do it right. And I've done it many times before. |
| 20:56.02 | fsmithred | DeFender1031, debian left us more crap to clean up on this one. |
| 20:56.21 | fsmithred | It's in progress. It's possible to upgrade to ascii with a little bit of trickery. |
| 20:56.46 | DeFender1031 | fsmithred, oh, forgive me, I didn't mean to sound impatient or accusatory in any wya. |
| 20:56.48 | DeFender1031 | way* |
| 20:56.59 | fsmithred | you didn't |
| 20:57.00 | golinux | Feel free to come help with the cleanup. |
| 20:57.12 | DeFender1031 | I was just curious about what the current status is and whether there's an ETA. |
| 20:57.23 | fsmithred | no ETA |
| 20:57.27 | fsmithred | well... |
| 20:57.29 | fsmithred | this year |
| 20:57.35 | golinux | (maybe) |
| 20:57.37 | DeFender1031 | Believe me, I realize that devuan is essentially a matter of cleaning up debian's crap. |
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| 20:57.52 | fsmithred | I'll release an ascii version of Refracta well before the end of the year, one way or another |
| 20:58.02 | DeFender1031 | Out of curiousity, what's this "trickery" you refer to? |
| 20:58.13 | fsmithred | replace rsyslog before upgrade |
| 20:58.16 | golinux | rsyslog stuff |
| 20:58.37 | fsmithred | either from backports or an alternate: syslog-ng or busybox-syslogd |
| 20:59.13 | fsmithred | if you are a fanatic like some of us and exclude libsystemd0, you will be disappointed - xorg needs it |
| 20:59.41 | DeFender1031 | I'm not sure what rsyslog is, but if it's really as simple as including something from backports, couldn't it be done on the repo end? |
| 21:00.18 | fsmithred | stuff happens slowly around here |
| 21:00.49 | fsmithred | it's actually a slightly newer version in ascii than in backports, so it needs to be recompiled. |
| 21:00.56 | ca-on-adam | If XOrg depends on something connected to systemd, does that mean that XOrg will have to be forked into a non-systemd variant? |
| 21:01.46 | fsmithred | the default desktop install, from installer iso or from live iso already includes libsystemd0 |
| 21:01.56 | fsmithred | the core devs are not so concerned with that |
| 21:02.10 | fsmithred | kinda like having libpulse0 even when you don't have pulseaudio installed |
| 21:02.15 | ca-on-adam | ok |
| 21:03.57 | ca-on-adam | The more I learn about what is happening with Debian, the more glad I am that devuan began. |
| 21:04.35 | Xenguy | +1 |
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| 21:25.14 | tdm4 | fsmithred: yeah kinds sucks you still need libpulse0 and libsystemd0 |
| 21:25.28 | tdm4 | but better than having those actual pieces of garbage binaries |
| 21:25.31 | aitor | hi |
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| 21:32.06 | aitor | days ago somebody asked about devuan-installer with encryption |
| 21:33.00 | aitor | this is possible doing a manual partitioning: |
| 21:33.01 | aitor | https://libreboot.org/docs/gnulinux/encrypted_debian.html |
| 21:35.23 | aitor | btw, i still can't access to d1g |
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| 21:36.29 | aitor | the link holds |
| 21:41.22 | aitor | bbt (be back tomorrow) |
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| 23:16.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui the debian way to make a library/subsystem SHITE an optional dependency of package FOO is to have FOO link against libSHITE0 which is a empty dummy when SHITE isn't present on your system |
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| 23:46.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got this idea from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8488988 which I consider a useful read for me at least |
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