| 00:07.21 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.232.190.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 00:10.51 | *** join/#devuan Vizva (~Vizva@gateway/tor-sasl/vizva) |
| 00:30.40 | *** join/#devuan wigums (~wigums@unaffiliated/wigums) |
| 00:48.36 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 00:56.07 | gnarface | bozonius: can you reproduce it with any other programs? is it the snd_hda_intel driver? describe "quits working" in more detail. full stop, or does it start to break up or sound corrupted, but still make sound? |
| 00:56.44 | bozonius | hi gnarface. Sorry for the generalized (useless) explanation |
| 00:56.51 | gnarface | bozonius: (sounds like a question for #alsa or wherever chromium support is unless you can reproduce it with another app) |
| 00:57.45 | gnarface | i'm also curious if it has to be continuous audio output to cause it to break, or if the audio is stopped/paused does it also delay the failure? |
| 00:57.50 | bozonius | Sound (mic+output both) seem to work fine. No stuttering, and sound quality is very good, for a while (not sure how to express "a While" more precisely) |
| 00:58.01 | gnarface | `dmesg` may drop some useful errors at the time it fails |
| 00:58.07 | bozonius | then sound output just quits completely |
| 00:58.23 | bozonius | the only way I can reset the problem is by shutting down and restarting chromium |
| 00:58.51 | gnarface | weird |
| 00:59.00 | gnarface | i wonder if firefox-esr would give the same problem |
| 00:59.04 | bozonius | well, I noticed this playing Pandora also. |
| 00:59.07 | gnarface | or like, vlc or any other |
| 00:59.09 | gnarface | oh i see |
| 00:59.09 | gnarface | hmm |
| 00:59.11 | bozonius | hmm |
| 00:59.32 | gnarface | same thing with multiple programs makes it more likely to be an alsa driver bug |
| 00:59.37 | bozonius | firefox does not do mic anymore, at least not without the shim. Not sure about sound output |
| 00:59.41 | bozonius | right |
| 00:59.49 | gnarface | since you're using a VM i can't be sure if it's the VM's driver or the host's though |
| 00:59.50 | bozonius | I guess I need to do more probing when the error occurs |
| 01:00.12 | gnarface | find out if when the sound fails in the guest it also fails on the host, or other guests, perhaps |
| 01:00.15 | bozonius | well, do keep in mind that sound will continue working on other VMs; they seem to be independent of each other |
| 01:00.20 | gnarface | oh |
| 01:00.27 | gnarface | ok so if there's a bug in the driver, it's in the VM' |
| 01:00.31 | gnarface | ...VM's fake driver |
| 01:00.32 | bozonius | let me gather some more data points before pestering you with this |
| 01:00.36 | gnarface | which VM are you using? |
| 01:00.46 | bozonius | (probably, but I'm not 100% on that) |
| 01:00.55 | bozonius | vbox 5.1.26 |
| 01:01.58 | bozonius | it does seem to me to be local though |
| 01:02.17 | bozonius | I can get sound and mic back by restarting the errant app (chomium) |
| 01:05.59 | *** join/#devuan Centurion_Dan1 (~Icedove@office.centurion.net.nz) |
| 01:07.00 | bozonius | gnarface: Sound (output) just quit on me |
| 01:09.03 | bozonius | running webcammictest.com, seems mic gets input, but no sound |
| 01:10.56 | bozonius | but I might be wrong... Can't really tell if it "hears" anything |
| 01:21.08 | bozonius | ok, I can confirm one thing so far. When "sound" goes out, it's the input(mic) and output both |
| 01:21.19 | bozonius | onlinemictest.com confirms this for me. |
| 01:21.34 | bozonius | the mic test there shows NO activity when I speak into the mic |
| 01:21.41 | bozonius | when the sound is out, that is |
| 01:22.01 | bozonius | and this round was quick... only took about 5 minutes, doing almost nothing soundwise |
| 01:24.20 | Xenguy | Whenever I had sound problems in the past, I'd go to the Debian wiki, and usually seemed to get fixed up |
| 01:24.27 | Xenguy | YMMV |
| 01:24.55 | golinux | arch wiki fixed my sound |
| 01:25.13 | Xenguy | Yeah, but Arch is flawed = ) |
| 01:25.33 | Xenguy | But I admit they have a famous wiki |
| 01:26.27 | Xenguy | Well deserved |
| 01:26.34 | bozonius | interesting, while the sound is out on devuan VM, it still works in another (manjaro) VM. |
| 01:26.49 | Xenguy | Maybe it's a VM issue? |
| 01:26.52 | bozonius | this time, though devuan mic seems to register sound but there is no output |
| 01:27.09 | bozonius | how could it be VM if sound still works in a different VM? |
| 01:27.31 | Xenguy | Cos they're 2 different VMs? |
| 01:27.53 | bozonius | ??? that doesn't make sense to me. Explain? |
| 01:28.01 | Xenguy | halt |
| 01:28.10 | Xenguy | :- ) |
| 01:28.23 | Xenguy | That's a case of 2 different wavelengths... |
| 01:28.26 | bozonius | oh, I guarantee that if I restart the VM, it will work again. But that doesn't seem to be the issue |
| 01:28.35 | Xenguy | No amount of conversation will patch it :) |
| 01:28.45 | bozonius | oh, I see. |
| 01:28.55 | gnarface | bozonius: well, how about this test? see if you can get sound to fail on the host the same way |
| 01:28.58 | Xenguy | We'll come back later |
| 01:29.01 | bozonius | are you at all familiar with VirtualBox or other VM systems? |
| 01:29.22 | bozonius | gnarface: OK |
| 01:29.44 | gnarface | i have some experience with qemu-kvm, linux-vservers and uml, none with vbox |
| 01:30.27 | gnarface | this isn't the first time i've heard of users having problems like this with vbox though |
| 01:31.01 | gnarface | hearing the types of problems/complaints vbox got in #debian over the years contributed to why i never bothered trying it |
| 01:31.34 | Xenguy | It always worked fine for me, but I had no special requirements either |
| 01:31.47 | gnarface | bozonius: it may be worth checking on the vbox forum (if such a thing exists) to see if anyone has had this audio problem recently |
| 01:31.58 | Xenguy | I think it's easier than the alternatives, from what I've read |
| 01:32.27 | gnarface | that is it's primary attraction from what i hear too, Xenguy but the unfortunate result is that tons of first-time VM users turn to it when they deserve something with better quality control |
| 01:32.28 | Xenguy | Of course it's an Oracle thing |
| 01:32.51 | Xenguy | Yeah, I would look in a different direction now too |
| 01:32.56 | Xenguy | It's gone stale |
| 01:33.04 | bozonius | but then again, Xenguy, until I started having sound issues with Devuan, I had not had them for years... |
| 01:33.09 | Xenguy | I mean, still works |
| 01:33.34 | Xenguy | bozonius: It's exasperating for sure, I mean, just figure sound out! |
| 01:33.40 | Xenguy | That's what I want to say |
| 01:33.53 | bozonius | gnarface: Weird! Devuan and host now have no sound. But manjaro running in another VM does!!! |
| 01:34.02 | gnarface | bozonius: to be clear, until you can reproduce this issue outside of the VM, my bet is on vbox itself causing the issue. otherwise, probably the alsa driver, but there's no special reason the fault can't be with both things |
| 01:34.12 | Xenguy | Anyhow, I can say that I've never had a scenario where I didn't figure out sound issues in the end, so that's the good news |
| 01:34.35 | bozonius | note that manjaro VM is running Pulse |
| 01:34.38 | gnarface | bozonius: oh, now that's super weird. do you check alsamixer after the sound dies? you're not having something just actually mute the channels are you? could be hotplug something gone awry... |
| 01:34.42 | bozonius | yeah. |
| 01:35.02 | bozonius | not sure |
| 01:35.15 | gnarface | also |
| 01:36.11 | gnarface | bozonius: how much do you understand the distinction between 'plug:dmix' and 'hw:0,0' in alsa terms? this isn't just a case of everything trying to access hw at once and getting blocked after the first one, is it? |
| 01:36.15 | bozonius | now, here could be a clue... Manjaro is running FF 54.x, whereas my host and Devuan are running 52.2.x |
| 01:36.49 | bozonius | not too much, really. LOL. Sorry. I really DO need to learn more abou sound systems |
| 01:36.50 | gnarface | well you also said manjaro had pulse, right? that's also highly suspicious |
| 01:36.52 | bozonius | *about |
| 01:37.23 | bozonius | remember, no pulse running on either host (CentOS) or Devuan. They're totally gone now |
| 01:37.25 | gnarface | if the manjaro guest was running during all these tests, i would kill the manjaro vm right now to see if the other guests and host can continue to work together without it. |
| 01:37.39 | bozonius | sure, I can do that. |
| 01:37.53 | bozonius | in fact, I will do that BEFORE I reset any browsers... |
| 01:38.07 | bozonius | I also have an old Ubuntu VM running, with pulse,and FF |
| 01:38.13 | gnarface | yes, see if they just get sound back magically too, when everything else stops trying to access the soundcard |
| 01:38.25 | gnarface | shut down every instance of pulse in every guest and on the host |
| 01:38.41 | gnarface | you can't debug anything alsa-related with it running |
| 01:39.05 | gnarface | i would have assumed once that having it quarantined within a VM would eliminate that concern but honestly nothing surprises me anymore... |
| 01:39.22 | bozonius | so then: don't shut down the VMs? Just shut down the PA in each? |
| 01:39.37 | gnarface | i guess that's two different tests |
| 01:39.38 | bozonius | (I could do either...) |
| 01:39.50 | gnarface | do whatever you want, just pay attention to what you're doing |
| 01:39.56 | bozonius | maybe first shut down PA, then if that fails, shut down VMs |
| 01:40.01 | bozonius | (right) |
| 01:40.19 | bozonius | shutting down PAs in other 2 VMs |
| 01:40.36 | gnarface | brb, coffee |
| 01:43.48 | *** join/#devuan jathan (~jathan@206.167.44.205) |
| 01:45.45 | bozonius | manjaro's ff went *poof* when I ran Pulseaudio -k; ubuntu's PA refuses to die (kinda like its inventor) |
| 01:46.38 | bozonius | this is really interesting. I had to manually restart FF on ubuntu and it has sound |
| 01:50.20 | bozonius | I shut down ubuntu completely rather than try to tackle that problem also |
| 01:50.31 | bozonius | I restarted the host FF and no sound |
| 01:51.00 | bozonius | and that's because it is 52.2.0 which requires pulse now |
| 01:51.27 | bozonius | now I have no sound on Devuan (chromium) |
| 01:53.42 | bozonius | this makes sense, because host has no PA anymore. Its sound goes through alsa only |
| 01:53.57 | bozonius | I can get aplay on host to make sound |
| 01:54.37 | bozonius | aplay has no sound on devuan |
| 01:55.15 | bozonius | but manjaro, no PA, aplay makes sound |
| 01:59.11 | bozonius | restarted devuan chromium browser, sound works again |
| 01:59.38 | bozonius | (but forgot to check command line after shutting it down and restarting it --I'll try to remember next time) |
| 02:00.52 | *** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-53-122-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:02.38 | gnarface | bozonius: ok so maybe you're lucky and this is basic user error. note that device "hw" is hardware-direct alsa access, which won't share with other programs. adding a VM in the mix won't change this physical limitation of the hardware. every process that needs to share the soundcard needs to use plug:dmix (or the default alsa pcm "default" which enables it by default) |
| 02:03.57 | gnarface | bozonius: pulseaudio further complicates this by intercepting all traffic bound to alsa. the possibility that it might be able to sabotage alsa this way from within supposedly secure VM containment doesn't strain my imagination very much. |
| 02:04.17 | bozonius | that 2nd thing you said here I would agree |
| 02:04.42 | bozonius | in fact, to get good sound quality, they'd almost have to do subterfuge somewhat |
| 02:04.55 | bozonius | but I don't get the first part |
| 02:04.59 | bozonius | user error? |
| 02:05.03 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@89-76-224-228.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 02:05.12 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@x4e3612f5.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 02:05.56 | gnarface | in the old days, it was common for "hw" to support hardware mixing, so you dont need to bother with dmix (software mixing) in alsa. but this is now highly rare on modern hardware. while before it was considered necessary even on commodity hardware, it's now a feature only a few top-of-the-line creative labs cards have |
| 02:06.12 | gnarface | so this behavior may have changed within your memory |
| 02:06.15 | gnarface | so what used to work may not anymore |
| 02:06.22 | gnarface | with all the same software |
| 02:06.28 | gnarface | (just a change of hardware) |
| 02:06.54 | gnarface | this is the most common type of alsa user error; simply letting programs fight over "hw:0,0" |
| 02:06.56 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p200300C90BC80E0031918DD4D480ACF3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:07.37 | bozonius | ok... |
| 02:08.04 | gnarface | find any program configured that way and change it to "default" (literally) |
| 02:08.13 | bozonius | wait |
| 02:08.19 | *** join/#devuan CenturionDan (~Centurion@121.90.116.110) |
| 02:08.26 | gnarface | AND kill all pulseaudio instances |
| 02:08.30 | gnarface | then see if you can recreate this bug |
| 02:09.09 | bozonius | not sure I follow: In the old days hw supported sound mixing, so one did not need dmix. but today you do need dmix because all modern sound cards require it in order to share sound bewteen programs. Is that right? |
| 02:09.59 | gnarface | yes. all modern commodity (onboard/oem) soundcards these days have been stripped of numerous basic features that in the 90's were considered mandatory just to be taken seriously. that's one of them. |
| 02:10.21 | gnarface | maybe you've heard an old disparaging term "winmodem" |
| 02:10.41 | gnarface | most modern soundcards have very much become the "winmodems" of our time |
| 02:10.59 | bozonius | how about rather than testing the (old) bug to verify what you say, we just say we did and move on. Is that ok? |
| 02:11.34 | bozonius | marketing? "Well, you need to upgrade to get THAT feature..." |
| 02:11.45 | bozonius | somthing like that? |
| 02:13.06 | bozonius | sort of like those (short-lived, thank god) modem riser cards? |
| 02:13.26 | *** join/#devuan http_GK1wmSU (~deep-book@129.232.221.173) |
| 02:13.27 | bozonius | the ones that taxed your cpu instead of having their own processor |
| 02:14.05 | gnarface | wait what? |
| 02:14.11 | gnarface | no, no no, sorry |
| 02:14.19 | *** part/#devuan http_GK1wmSU (~deep-book@129.232.221.173) |
| 02:14.21 | gnarface | i didn't mean to imply this was in any way optional or omissible from basic testing |
| 02:14.35 | gnarface | this is absolutely something you need to understand and address either way |
| 02:14.47 | gnarface | because dmix will do the same thing to cards that DO support hardware mixing |
| 02:15.04 | gnarface | there's no mix of one or the other approach that will work except by luck or chance if you don't understand this |
| 02:15.06 | bozonius | is reading the alsa-project.org web page on dmix |
| 02:15.12 | gnarface | and if it's not configured right all other concerns are moot |
| 02:15.23 | gnarface | *this* has to be set up right *first* |
| 02:15.30 | bozonius | on the host? |
| 02:15.53 | gnarface | on hosts and guests alike, and including pulseaudio *will* confuse the shit out of you, i highly recommend you don't omit disabling it from my advised testing procedure |
| 02:16.10 | gnarface | my advice isn't intended to be taken ala-carte |
| 02:16.27 | bozonius | it is all disabled everywhere. Ubuntu's which I could not stop the VM has been stopped completely |
| 02:16.35 | bozonius | ok, I get it now |
| 02:17.26 | bozonius | but it seems like configuring the host first makes the most sense -- it needs to be set up with dmix since multiple VM's ("programs") are accessing the hw device |
| 02:20.04 | bozonius | uh... is that right? |
| 02:24.39 | bozonius | looks like dmix is configured on the host, but I'm not really sure. I am basing this on the fact that the /usr/share/alsa.conf has references to dmix |
| 02:26.12 | bozonius | I am using the alsa config out of the box, so to speak, on the host and here on devuan |
| 02:29.02 | gnarface | bozonius: sorry for the delay, the last thing you said upset me so much i spilled my coffee |
| 02:29.16 | bozonius | shit, sorry |
| 02:29.32 | bozonius | are you ok now? |
| 02:29.39 | gnarface | bozonius: now, yes, dmix needs to be enabled on the host, but you don't cat /usr/share/alsa.conf to see if it's enabled |
| 02:29.50 | bozonius | alsaconfig for that |
| 02:30.23 | gnarface | bozonius: in general, when not running pulseaudio, every individual program needs to be altered at it's built-in config level. some stuff can be overridden from the global alsa.conf too, but it's better to use the user-specific ~/.asoundrc |
| 02:30.55 | gnarface | bozonius: dmix could very well be available on the host, but the vm's might still be trying to access hw |
| 02:31.20 | gnarface | bozonius: try looking into vbox configurations directly (or it's hypervisor if it has one - like i said i don't know vbox) |
| 02:31.32 | gnarface | look for any references to "hw" anything in the alsa config parts |
| 02:32.19 | bozonius | gnarface: really sorry about upsetting you. I know you are trying very hard to help me. I must seem very dense. |
| 02:32.38 | gnarface | no it was just a distraction and i lost my cool |
| 02:32.44 | gnarface | you can't be expected to be born knowing all this |
| 02:32.51 | bozonius | thank you for that! |
| 02:32.53 | bozonius | lol. |
| 02:32.58 | gnarface | but you should be smart enough to know basic scientific procedure |
| 02:33.26 | gnarface | "let's throw that out of the test because i dont' like the implications of what we might find out" lacks rigor |
| 02:33.47 | fsmithred | vbox settings are Host Audio Driver: (mine is set to ALSA) |
| 02:34.01 | fsmithred | Audio Controller: ICH AC97 |
| 02:34.04 | bozonius | oh, o. That's not what I meant at all |
| 02:34.10 | gnarface | fsmithred, do you know vbox? maybe you can weigh in here. i feel like someone else had this exact problem with vbox just a couple weeks ago |
| 02:34.21 | bozonius | I thought you were trying to prove a point about the need for dmix today vs years ago |
| 02:34.22 | fsmithred | and a checkbox for Enable Audio |
| 02:34.41 | fsmithred | I am weighing in here. Reading off my vbox settings. |
| 02:34.45 | bozonius | that's why i was dismissive; I just didn't understand what you wanted to do |
| 02:34.53 | fsmithred | I do have apulse installed on the host |
| 02:35.31 | bozonius | fsmithred, I could install apulse on my host, just to test the sound in firefox there |
| 02:35.48 | fsmithred | haven't had any problems with sound in VM when I've tested it with Devuan (using pulseaudio) or Refracta (with just alsa) |
| 02:36.09 | fsmithred | yeah, my firefox works. it's 52.2 |
| 02:36.22 | bozonius | lucky you. I've had nothing but issues... |
| 02:36.40 | fsmithred | apt-get --purge remove pulseaudio |
| 02:36.51 | bozonius | it all started when I wanted to use the microphone. |
| 02:37.04 | fsmithred | hm |
| 02:37.05 | bozonius | it only started working once I kicked out pulseaudio |
| 02:37.18 | bozonius | have you used your mic in devuan or a vm? |
| 02:37.30 | fsmithred | not sure what version of ff I have on laptop, but I've done video chats (with audio) |
| 02:37.36 | fsmithred | in jessie and ascii |
| 02:37.44 | fsmithred | hang on... |
| 02:37.48 | bozonius | on a host or in a vm? |
| 02:37.55 | bozonius | ok |
| 02:39.10 | bozonius | gnarface: DId you tell me once that pulse modifies alsa's config when it is installed? or did I misunderstand that also? |
| 02:39.13 | *** join/#devuan saptech (~saptech@unaffiliated/saptech) |
| 02:39.20 | fsmithred | on hardware |
| 02:39.28 | bozonius | fsmithred: OK. |
| 02:39.45 | fsmithred | jessie is still using 45.9, no pulse |
| 02:39.48 | bozonius | so I've been using the mic in a VM |
| 02:39.50 | gnarface | bozonius: it just intercepts traffic for alsa, i don't think it changes alsa.conf. also, you're not supposed to touch /usr/share/alsa, change it in /etc/alsa or ~/.asoundrc instead |
| 02:39.53 | fsmithred | rebooting into ascii now |
| 02:40.13 | bozonius | well wait, I'm using jEssie! |
| 02:40.18 | bozonius | not ascii |
| 02:40.19 | gnarface | bozonius: also the thing i was telling you about modern soundcards not sharing nice anymore; that also goes for simultaneous input&output. |
| 02:40.42 | bozonius | noted |
| 02:40.46 | gnarface | bozonius: modern cards often can't output and input at the same time if *either* output *or* input is using 'hw' |
| 02:40.48 | bozonius | it makes sense |
| 02:40.58 | gnarface | bozonius: (the mic input equivalent of plug:dmix is plug:dsnoop) |
| 02:41.40 | fsmithred | ok, I didn't expect this... |
| 02:41.51 | gnarface | not working for you either now, fsmithred? |
| 02:41.56 | gnarface | O_o |
| 02:42.03 | fsmithred | in my ascii, I've got ff 52.2, no pulse, and I've used mic |
| 02:42.22 | gnarface | sigh, i gotta deal with a mail crisis here, sorry guys |
| 02:42.28 | fsmithred | ouch |
| 02:42.29 | gnarface | back in a bit |
| 02:42.29 | bozonius | np, gnarface. |
| 02:42.33 | fsmithred | good luck |
| 02:42.39 | bozonius | Thanks for all your help and instruction |
| 02:43.39 | bozonius | fsmithred: Are you using the apulse shim? |
| 02:43.45 | bozonius | maybe that's why |
| 02:43.52 | fsmithred | no,not in ascii |
| 02:43.57 | bozonius | huh |
| 02:43.58 | fsmithred | no pulseaudio, no apulse |
| 02:44.21 | bozonius | maybe ascii uses the Advanced Linux Magical Sound System |
| 02:44.27 | fsmithred | lol |
| 02:44.29 | bozonius | lol |
| 02:45.30 | bozonius | ok, let's review now. We have been told explicitly that FF 52.2+ will require pulse. |
| 02:45.38 | fsmithred | it's possible I haven't used the mic since before last time I did update/upgrade and maybe it was an earlier ff |
| 02:45.40 | fsmithred | not sure |
| 02:45.44 | bozonius | ah! |
| 02:45.47 | bozonius | that's probably it! |
| 02:46.11 | bozonius | the first time you use firefox 52.2 it warns you about the pulse requirement -- maybe you missed it |
| 02:46.19 | bozonius | or ignored it |
| 02:46.29 | fsmithred | possible |
| 02:46.50 | bozonius | try using your mic now? |
| 02:49.57 | bozonius | do you have sound in ff? |
| 02:50.03 | *** join/#devuan fsr (~user@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 02:50.17 | fsr | hey bozonius. Over here! |
| 02:51.01 | fsr | can you do google hangouts? |
| 02:51.03 | bozonius | hey fsr |
| 02:51.20 | bozonius | huh... haven't really tried in a very long time |
| 02:51.29 | bozonius | like... maybe 8 years or more? |
| 02:51.31 | *** join/#devuan JohnTheRipper (~JohnTheRi@2.229.193.226) |
| 02:51.34 | fsr | how can I test my mic? |
| 02:52.00 | bozonius | well you could try arecord, saving output to a file then play it back on aplay |
| 02:52.02 | bozonius | OR |
| 02:52.14 | fsr | yeah, but that won't test ff |
| 02:52.17 | bozonius | you could go to onlinemictest.com |
| 02:52.20 | bozonius | in ff |
| 02:52.25 | golinux | Ping fsr |
| 02:52.32 | fsr | yqy |
| 02:52.39 | fsr | yay |
| 02:53.45 | bozonius | fsr? did that work? |
| 02:53.49 | fsr | bozonius, test is going to happen |
| 02:53.52 | bozonius | ok |
| 02:54.03 | bozonius | why hangouts? |
| 02:54.26 | fsr | it works |
| 02:54.33 | bozonius | mic too? |
| 02:54.40 | fsr | yeah, we are talking |
| 02:54.45 | bozonius | cool-oh |
| 02:55.02 | bozonius | are you running devuan native on hw, or in a VM? |
| 02:55.18 | fsr | devuan ascii on hardware |
| 02:55.26 | bozonius | ok |
| 02:55.37 | bozonius | I don't have that here. (I could but it's some work) |
| 02:55.41 | fsr | I think it's a later version of ff that dies |
| 02:55.54 | bozonius | what versoin of ff do you have there? |
| 02:56.07 | fsr | 52.2.0 |
| 02:56.14 | bozonius | if it's 52.2+ it will require pulseaudio (or the apulse) |
| 02:56.15 | fsr | same as in jessie |
| 02:56.38 | bozonius | so you are running pulseaudio in ascii? |
| 02:56.39 | fsr | maybe 54 or 57 will require it |
| 02:56.57 | fsr | no pulseaudio, no apulse |
| 02:57.00 | bozonius | the ff 52.2 release says it is now a requirement |
| 02:57.03 | bozonius | huh |
| 02:57.12 | bozonius | maybe I have a defective FF? |
| 02:57.38 | fsr | check at mozillazine - search pulseaudio |
| 02:57.39 | bozonius | I know for a fact 52.2 does't work for sound here |
| 02:58.09 | bozonius | in fact, it gave me a warning the first time after I upgraded recently, telling me that 52.2+ requires pulseaudio |
| 02:59.00 | fsr | check Help, About |
| 02:59.55 | bozonius | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345661 |
| 03:00.12 | bozonius | oh, definitely 52.2.0 -- no question about THAT |
| 03:02.18 | bozonius | fsmithred: did you say you are running jessie or ascii? |
| 03:02.27 | fsr | ascii |
| 03:02.41 | fsr | I haven't upgraded my jessie - still 45.9 there |
| 03:02.49 | fsr | the jessie with the mic |
| 03:03.01 | bozonius | it may be that ascii's ff was compiled with --enable-alsa and --disable-pulseaudio |
| 03:03.33 | bozonius | oh YOU are fsmithred |
| 03:03.48 | bozonius | takes a rather longer time than most to catch on to things |
| 03:03.56 | bozonius | fsr=fsmithred |
| 03:04.00 | bozonius | shorter |
| 03:04.05 | bozonius | ok |
| 03:04.13 | fsr | lol |
| 03:04.17 | golinux | Duh |
| 03:04.33 | bozonius | (easy for you to say golinux) |
| 03:04.45 | fsr | user@refracta-ascii:~$ apt-cache policy firefox-esr |
| 03:04.45 | fsr | firefox-esr: |
| 03:04.45 | fsr | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:05.00 | bozonius | no doubt. |
| 03:05.07 | fsmithred | $ apt-cache policy firefox-esr |
| 03:05.07 | fsmithred | firefox-esr: |
| 03:05.07 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:05.13 | bozonius | ascii must have built ff differently, that's all |
| 03:05.16 | fsmithred | not the same |
| 03:05.33 | fsmithred | but the deb8u1 in my jessie is also in ascii-security |
| 03:05.43 | fsmithred | I just don't have it installed on the laptop |
| 03:06.05 | golinux | I don't think that we mess with FF |
| 03:06.23 | bozonius | where did you run that second apt-cache? (I don't see a hostname) |
| 03:06.41 | fsr | yeah, 'cause my real name is in the path |
| 03:07.00 | bozonius | what system was that jessie? |
| 03:07.02 | fsr | that was on the desktop running jessie |
| 03:07.05 | bozonius | ok |
| 03:07.09 | bozonius | makes sense to me |
| 03:07.39 | bozonius | 52.2 built for jessie fails if pulse is not running or if not using apulse |
| 03:07.52 | bozonius | (fact; verified here) |
| 03:08.11 | fsr | yeah, I have apulse on the one with the deb8u1 (jessie) where I can't test the mic |
| 03:08.11 | bozonius | why it works in ascii -- well, I just told my theory, but you disagree. |
| 03:08.30 | fsr | yeah, we didn't mess with that one |
| 03:08.54 | fsr | but maybe 52.2.0esr is different from 52.2 |
| 03:09.14 | bozonius | well, sorry, I should say, all these versions I've been mentioning on devuan are esr |
| 03:09.26 | bozonius | I really don't use the non-esr one |
| 03:09.42 | bozonius | and 52.2 is my shorthand for 52.2.0 |
| 03:09.55 | fsr | yeah, but do any of the official docs that say it's mandatory in 52.2 say that it's the same in the esr version? |
| 03:11.30 | bozonius | well, I don't recall the page I got that info, but suffice it to say, sound did not work with ff-esr 52.2 (after upgrade) here on devuan |
| 03:11.32 | fsr | the one I have installed in ascii was installed with dpkg |
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| 03:16.16 | gnarface | i came back for a moment to read the scrollback, but i've got nothing additional to add |
| 03:16.53 | bozonius | afk |
| 03:16.56 | gnarface | something weird is going on but i still can't be sure it's not a configuration problem |
| 03:17.17 | gnarface | it seems like vbox support must certainly have seen this issue already though |
| 03:17.22 | gnarface | i would try to ask them |
| 03:17.51 | gnarface | whether it's configuration based or an actual bug, it seems unlikely you could be the only one who has ever run into it bozonius |
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| 03:21.26 | bozonius | what's confusing now is why fsr says he has 52.2.0esr on ascii and it doesn't require pulse |
| 03:21.45 | bozonius | the only way to get that (as a default) is to change the compile options |
| 03:22.03 | bozonius | but fsr says they didn't change the options for ascii |
| 03:22.14 | bozonius | I'm trying to understand how this can be |
| 03:22.24 | bozonius | snot adding up for me |
| 03:22.47 | TheOuterLinux | Anyone able to get mpv to use --vo=opengl or drm in Devuan minimum? |
| 03:24.14 | fsmithred | I'm checking to see where that version is available |
| 03:24.16 | bozonius | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1247056 indicates that pulse is now hardcoded as of ff 52 or so |
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| 03:25.52 | fsmithred | 52.2.0esr-1 is not in the repos now, but 52.2.0esr-2 is in buster, sid and ceres |
| 03:26.29 | bozonius | you're talking debian though, right? |
| 03:30.37 | TheOuterLinux | I can't speak for Devuan full version, but the minimum doesn't have pulseaudio installed. However, it hasn't stopped mps-youtube or moc audio from working. I hope to god mpv doesn't ever make pulseaudio a requirement. I have nothing but constant trouble with it on a newer MacBook using Xubuntu. |
| 03:31.27 | bozonius | TheOuterLinux: Does sound fail for you in FF? and what version of it, if so? |
| 03:31.47 | fsmithred | ceres is devuan |
| 03:32.10 | fsmithred | looks like I got that ff in ascii back in May when I upgraded from jessie |
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| 03:32.42 | bozonius | shaking his head in disbelief |
| 03:32.58 | bozonius | well, I'm not on ceres, or ascii |
| 03:33.38 | bozonius | I suppose I could set up VMs to test these also, but I'm not sure that will answer too many questions if I get the same results you did, fsr |
| 03:34.07 | TheOuterLinux | @bozonius For me, the sound fails when I run "firejail firefox" and then usually bleachbit aftwards. It's firejail or it's bleachbit doing it for me, I think anyway. |
| 03:34.37 | bozonius | what if you run firefox by itself, say, from the command line? |
| 03:35.17 | fsmithred | I just removed apulse in my jessie, restarted firefox and I still have sound |
| 03:35.39 | bozonius | fsr: and PA is not running? |
| 03:35.43 | fsmithred | I'm running firefox in firejail |
| 03:35.59 | fsmithred | there was never any pulseaudio on this installation |
| 03:36.03 | fsmithred | ever |
| 03:36.11 | bozonius | ok |
| 03:36.30 | bozonius | fsr: what if you run firefox standalone? do you still have sound? |
| 03:36.51 | bozonius | (I realize that might be a slight security issue for you) |
| 03:37.09 | bozonius | I don't have my ff configured for firejail, but both you and TheOuterLinux do |
| 03:37.15 | bozonius | that could be the difference |
| 03:37.56 | fsmithred | yeah, it still works |
| 03:38.07 | TheOuterLinux | Not sure actually. I run w3m 90% of the time and only use Kodi or mpv when I want to watch or listen to something. If I do remember correctly, Firefox runs just regardless of firejail or not. It's when I quit firejail that pulseaudio hiccups. |
| 03:38.14 | fsmithred | ran it from terminal. Only errors I get are about js |
| 03:38.38 | bozonius | and this is 52.2.0esr? |
| 03:39.05 | fsmithred | 52.2.0esr-1~deb8u1 |
| 03:39.24 | bozonius | what about the native devuan ff-esr 52.2.0? |
| 03:39.39 | bozonius | because that's NOT the versoin I am using |
| 03:39.42 | fsmithred | this is from devuan jessie main repository |
| 03:40.23 | fsmithred | nope. It's from jessie-security |
| 03:40.33 | fsmithred | warning. I'm gonna spam the channel. |
| 03:40.36 | fsmithred | apt-cache policy firefox-esr |
| 03:40.36 | fsmithred | firefox-esr: |
| 03:40.36 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.36 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.36 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.37 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.39 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.41 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.43 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.45 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.47 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.49 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.51 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.53 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.55 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.59 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:41.01 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:41.03 | fsmithred | and take a 5min break while you absorb that |
| 03:41.14 | TheOuterLinux | My Firefox pulseaudio/firejail issues are on Xubuntu 16.04 LTS and with Firefox 54.0 (64-bit). |
| 03:41.29 | bozonius | ok , turns out dpkg does report same as yours |
| 03:41.53 | bozonius | (I didn't recall the "deb" part... more faulty memory) |
| 03:42.07 | bozonius | (fault memory: bozonius's not PC) |
| 03:42.41 | TheOuterLinux | ...I here a Window$ joke in my head... |
| 03:43.37 | bozonius | TheOuterLinux: How does FF play for you on devuan jessie? |
| 03:45.57 | TheOuterLinux | I've tried Devuan Jessie for about 5 minutes and then switched to the minimum version. :/ It's doing something similar for me on Xubuntu 16.04 and on FF 54. |
| 03:46.35 | bozonius | fsr: the listing seems to indicate you have multiple versions installed? I am not an expert on apt-* yet |
| 03:46.57 | bozonius | or is the asterisked one the only installed one? nvm |
| 03:47.07 | bozonius | I get it now |
| 03:47.27 | fsmithred | yeah, also the one next to the word Installed: |
| 03:47.40 | bozonius | ah, ok |
| 03:47.43 | bozonius | duh |
| 03:47.55 | bozonius | so explain this to me then |
| 03:48.20 | TheOuterLinux | PulseAudio messes up for me right after quiting firejail firefox. I run pavucontrol to switch back from headphones to HDMI and it just hangs like it can't find anything. |
| 03:48.40 | bozonius | the firebug page is reporting a number of people who are hostile to the change in ff 52 that snuffs out sound without pulseaudio |
| 03:48.52 | bozonius | I am of a like mind myself. |
| 03:48.55 | fsmithred | I can't explain it |
| 03:49.19 | bozonius | but doesn't it HAVE to be explicable, somehow? |
| 03:49.24 | fsmithred | yes |
| 03:49.33 | bozonius | ok at least we are on one page there |
| 03:49.37 | fsmithred | hey, I'm just a dumb user |
| 03:49.41 | bozonius | not dumb |
| 03:49.53 | bozonius | you've been quite patient and helpful actually |
| 03:50.02 | bozonius | I'm the one who is frustrated |
| 03:50.50 | bozonius | TheOuterLinux: Can you run firefox 52.2 ESR on Devuan Jessie from command line, without firejail? Do you get sound? |
| 03:51.02 | bozonius | (please, if possible) |
| 03:51.56 | bozonius | fsr, furthermore, it says that E/R or bug was included in the 52.2 release (or maybe before that, but it is definitely in 52.2) |
| 03:55.28 | fsmithred | browser-plugin-vlc? |
| 03:56.33 | TheOuterLinux | @bozonius I don't have GUI version of Devuan, only minimum. I can run Firefox 54 on Xubuntu 16.04 LTS just fine without firejail and it all seems to work ok. It's just when I quit firejail, so I'm thinking SUID issues. |
| 03:57.23 | bozonius | well, problem is that Xubuntu is not devuan, which is the scenario I am trying to make sense of. |
| 03:57.30 | TheOuterLinux | What I'm saying is, I don't think it's Devuan doing this. |
| 03:57.36 | bozonius | I appreciate though that you are offering some contrasting data points |
| 03:57.59 | bozonius | you say the sound issues happen AFTER you leave FF-ESR 52.2 ? |
| 03:58.14 | bozonius | but you have sound while it is running? |
| 03:58.30 | bozonius | oh, wait. 54, not 52. |
| 03:58.47 | bozonius | Maybe they unrestricted FF after 52 |
| 03:59.09 | TheOuterLinux | Could it be the way it handles multiple tabs now? |
| 04:00.53 | fsmithred | bozonius, go to about:plugins |
| 04:01.22 | bozonius | I don't see why tabs would affect sound. |
| 04:01.59 | bozonius | only two plugins, fsr |
| 04:02.14 | fsmithred | which ones? |
| 04:02.18 | bozonius | VLC and openH264 |
| 04:02.56 | fsmithred | ok |
| 04:03.03 | bozonius | same? |
| 04:03.09 | fsmithred | I've got flash, too |
| 04:03.20 | bozonius | gotta do something, brb |
| 04:03.42 | fsmithred | I suppose you could see if flashplugin-nonfree makes a difference |
| 04:03.50 | fsmithred | I need to get to sleep |
| 04:11.10 | TheOuterLinux | What I mean is multiprocess Firefox via "Electrolysis." The problem is, if you don't have an extension that is compatible, it turns it off. You can download the source code of a non-ESR Firefox and run the ./firefox inside of the folder and I guess see if you still have problems. The Linux links should automatically give you a tar folder since most install from the package manager. |
| 04:14.14 | bozonius | fsr: thanks, have a good night |
| 04:17.23 | bozonius | by "extension" you mean, for instance, "pulse" or "alsa" in this case? |
| 04:17.37 | bozonius | I have non-ESR available |
| 04:17.46 | bozonius | I could try that, one sec... |
| 04:18.37 | TheOuterLinux | Honestly, I'm not sure, but I definately know "extension" on what Mozilla has tried to explain at least means add-ons. |
| 04:19.53 | bozonius | no, nvm. That is just a wrapper |
| 04:20.15 | bozonius | sorry, your grammar is confusing me |
| 04:21.34 | TheOuterLinux | Try going to Mozilla's downloads page and grab the Linux version. It should be a tar file. Extract it and run the firefox binary inside it and see if you still have problems. |
| 04:25.27 | bozonius | no sound |
| 04:25.39 | bozonius | 54.0.1 |
| 04:25.57 | bozonius | not ESR |
| 04:26.17 | TheOuterLinux | Damn....I don't know then. Have you tried to "killall pulseaudio" ? |
| 04:26.28 | bozonius | PA is not even installed her |
| 04:26.30 | bozonius | here |
| 04:26.55 | TheOuterLinux | On your Devuan? |
| 04:26.59 | bozonius | yeah |
| 04:27.01 | bozonius | jessie |
| 04:27.36 | TheOuterLinux | firefox --ao=alsa |
| 04:27.44 | TheOuterLinux | Don't do that |
| 04:27.55 | TheOuterLinux | I had a brain fart |
| 04:28.05 | TheOuterLinux | I've been so used to using mpv |
| 04:31.16 | bozonius | gotta go |
| 04:31.19 | bozonius | thanks for your help |
| 04:31.27 | bozonius | need to get to the store before it closses |
| 04:31.33 | bozonius | afk |
| 04:32.45 | TheOuterLinux | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/firefox-52-no-sound-pulseaudio-alsa-linux |
| 04:33.02 | TheOuterLinux | You may have to install pulseaudio |
| 04:33.09 | TheOuterLinux | Sorry :/ |
| 04:33.30 | TheOuterLinux | I gotta go too; need food. |
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| 06:13.02 | gnarface | i can confirm firefox-esr 52.2.0esr-2 on ceres does not require pulseaudio. however, an earlier version of firefox-esr *also* didn't require gtk3. i don't know if it's safe to assume alsa support is intended to remain in firefox-esr or not. i also don't know if firefox 52 always supports bare alsa, or just the "esr" packages |
| 06:13.47 | gnarface | anyway the message is clear |
| 06:14.03 | gnarface | mozilla doesn't want veteran users on board anymore |
| 06:14.18 | gnarface | we're a problem for their new business plan apparently |
| 06:14.30 | gnarface | (i assume that means it involves some amount of deception) |
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| 07:10.54 | bozonius | on ceres. |
| 07:11.38 | bozonius | and yes, many people are complaining bitterly about this. I saw one "bug" report asking if they could make the backend user-configurable (maybe pulse as default) |
| 07:11.57 | bozonius | In fact, no reason this could not be a user-settable option right in settings |
| 07:26.40 | detha | as far as I understood the story, the thing was that they did not want to maintain two back-ends, user-configurable or not |
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| 07:32.08 | bozonius | well, it seems they have to call a backend either way, so it really isn't quite the onus they are making it out to be, if I understand one suggestion I read about this |
| 07:36.40 | bozonius | but as gnarface says, they really don't love us anymore |
| 07:37.23 | bozonius | the ability for users to make choices like sound system and init system stand in the way of world domination |
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| 09:25.47 | tetley | Hi, I just downloaded the jessie virtualbox vm from https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/virtual/devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_vagrant.box and started it up. Trying to upgrade this to the ascii release. Found that the apt/sources.list has ascii already listed as the dev package sources. Is that typical? |
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| 09:31.18 | tetley | Ignore the message earlier. Got it sorted |
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| 09:57.10 | nailyk | hi. I solved my mtp problem (with thunar) by installing gvsf-backend |
| 09:57.28 | nailyk | but it require a reboot. Udevadm control --reload wasnt enough |
| 10:02.56 | nailyk | Someone here told me to diff master/wheezy before opening a bug report. |
| 10:03.03 | nailyk | Where can I find source code for https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/slim ? |
| 10:07.00 | nailyk | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLiM |
| 10:07.13 | nailyk | ok looks like it is not maintained anymore.... |
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| 10:23.11 | gnarface | nailyk: source for any package: apt-get source [package name] |
| 10:23.23 | gnarface | (downloads to the current directory and unpacks) |
| 10:23.33 | nailyk | yes but will be devuan sources isn't it? |
| 10:28.20 | Fervi | nailyk |
| 10:28.30 | Fervi | If you want slim from wheezy (source code) you have on right |
| 10:28.42 | Fervi | Download Source Package slim: |
| 10:29.09 | nailyk | mostly I wanna 'upstream' source to get last changes and check if 'issue' is present to know where to report. |
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| 11:07.56 | kaboutur | fyi devuan vs debian jessie: missing mkfs.vfat symlink in /sbin/ and vfat entry in /etc/mke2fs.conf |
| 11:09.16 | kaboutur | oh wait. nevermind the latter |
| 11:09.42 | kaboutur | (mke2fs is not for vfat) but the default mkfs.vfat is missing |
| 11:10.49 | kaboutur | had to install dosfstools which was default on debian |
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| 11:15.45 | fsmithred | nailyk, what's the issue with slim? |
| 11:17.21 | nailyk | logins fields are not on Screen0 but at the left. |
| 11:17.33 | nailyk | Just wanna report, already switched to lightdm :) |
| 11:18.33 | fsmithred | well, the wheezy version is older than anything we're using in devuan |
| 11:19.47 | fsmithred | someone has been working on slim. I'm using a version he built and login is on the left, but that is my main monitor |
| 11:20.52 | fsmithred | some discussion about that here - https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1118 |
| 11:21.48 | nailyk | oh so its a known problem? Great thanks! |
| 11:22.15 | fsmithred | not sure if it's a known problem |
| 11:22.26 | fsmithred | not a problem here - login comes up where I'd expect |
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| 11:23.00 | fsmithred | hm |
| 11:23.30 | fsmithred | left and right are determined after I login (lxrandr.desktop in user's configs) |
| 11:24.02 | fsmithred | are you screens configured in xorg.conf? |
| 11:28.18 | fsmithred | oh, login is on both monitors |
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| 11:48.14 | nailyk | yes https://paste.debian.net/979827/ |
| 11:48.16 | nailyk | thanks |
| 11:48.32 | nailyk | login display is displayed on screen1 instead of screen 0 |
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| 14:34.23 | AntoFox | o/ |
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| 14:36.54 | AntoFox | soon I will upload Cinnamon 3.2 for ascii, someone want to do a guinea pig? |
| 14:37.25 | AnRkey | I'm trying to follow this thread in order to configure an auto-login user on devuan mate (raspberry pi) but I don't find that file. https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/enable-automatic-login-in-ubuntu-mate-16-04-for-raspberry-pi-3/5679 |
| 14:37.27 | AnRkey | any ideas? |
| 14:37.54 | AntoFox | slim or lightdm? |
| 14:38.07 | AnRkey | doesnt seem to be lightdm |
| 14:38.53 | AnRkey | googled slim, thanks i think i have enough to fiddle with |
| 14:39.58 | AntoFox | AnRkey: /etc/slim.conf |
| 14:40.43 | AntoFox | search line #default_user |
| 14:40.50 | AntoFox | auto_login |
| 14:42.21 | AnRkey | yeah, found it |
| 14:42.23 | AnRkey | its rebooting |
| 14:42.28 | AnRkey | *holds thumbs* |
| 14:43.38 | AnRkey | and it works, many thanks AntoFox |
| 14:44.08 | AntoFox | prego |
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| 16:33.33 | Evilham | !mirrors |
| 16:34.03 | infobot | methinks mirrors is https://devuan.voyanet.org/ http://devuan.lucylaika.ovh http://devuan.ksx4system.net/ ftp, http://tux.rainside.sk/devuan/ http://devuan.selea.se/ http & ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/devuan/ http://devuan.c3l.lu/ http://neo900.files.dev-1.org, or see https://www.devuan.org/ |
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| 19:15.24 | TheOuterLinux_ | Anyone here? |
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| 21:36.56 | aitor | hi |
| 21:37.07 | fsmithred | hi |
| 21:37.52 | aitor | i'm downloading figos2.6.iso: |
| 21:37.52 | aitor | https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Refractapup |
| 21:38.27 | fsmithred | have you ever played with the script to build it? |
| 21:38.34 | aitor | nope |
| 21:38.46 | fsmithred | it makes a multiboot DVD |
| 21:38.54 | fsmithred | or CD I guess |
| 21:38.57 | aitor | today i've been playing with devuan-sdk |
| 21:39.10 | fsmithred | live-sdk or arm? |
| 21:40.15 | aitor | devuan-sdk in x86 and x86 |
| 21:40.28 | fsmithred | oh, to make installer isos? |
| 21:40.46 | aitor | sorry: in x86 and x86_64 |
| 21:43.07 | aitor | there is code for that: i saw some code downloading the source of debian-installer, and building it using make reallyclean, make build_cdrom_isolinux, etc... |
| 21:43.24 | aitor | sources* |
| 21:43.38 | fsmithred | I haven't looked at it |
| 21:44.18 | fsmithred | if you see a place where there's a package list for what gets installed, let me know. I'd like to edit the one for the CD. (for Devuan, not for what you make) |
| 21:45.41 | aitor | are you referring to a list of the installed packages list? |
| 21:46.15 | fsmithred | No, I mean the list that determines what packages get installed when you make your choices at tasksel |
| 21:46.37 | aitor | ok |
| 21:47.12 | fsmithred | or if they just go with priority (optional, standard, required...) |
| 21:47.26 | aitor | some customized .udeb packages would be needed for that |
| 21:47.54 | fsmithred | are the udebs there just to have something in the running environment? |
| 21:49.20 | aitor | othey work only during the installation process |
| 21:49.33 | fsmithred | ok |
| 21:49.38 | aitor | *they |
| 21:49.48 | fsmithred | did you see the gnuinos thread at d1g? |
| 21:49.54 | fsmithred | You have several testers |
| 21:50.27 | aitor | yes, i read it |
| 21:50.53 | aitor | i still didn't try libreboot |
| 21:51.24 | fsmithred | neither have I |
| 21:52.51 | gnu_srs | Hi, sorry to interrupt: I'd like to know how to build an iso containing the debian-installer (D-I). Of special interest is to build a D-I with eudev and openrc. Any hints/links? |
| 21:52.53 | aitor | i hope thet it hope that it could be reconciled with the fsf and gnu |
| 21:54.04 | fsmithred | gnu_srs, I got code from ozitraveller to include d-i in a live-sdk build, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet |
| 21:54.49 | fsmithred | uh, that's not entirely true |
| 21:54.57 | fsmithred | I did one build before I went away |
| 21:55.15 | fsmithred | and it worked. I installed without network, and it installed what was on the media. |
| 21:56.28 | aitor | i rectify: i hope that they have reconciled with the fsf and gnu |
| 21:56.35 | fsmithred | Another way is to use live-build. I haven't done that in a long time, and when I did, I didn't include d-i |
| 21:57.28 | aitor | i include d-i separately |
| 21:57.41 | fsmithred | what do you mean? |
| 21:59.14 | aitor | i use live-build setting LB_BUILD_WITH_CHROOT to "false" |
| 21:59.36 | fsmithred | what does that do? |
| 22:00.15 | aitor | and i build d-i separately, generating my own initrd.gz and vmlinuz |
| 22:00.44 | fsmithred | oh, because of the custom kernel |
| 22:00.56 | aitor | after that, i build the pool tree using reprepro |
| 22:01.26 | aitor | yes.because of the custom kernel an other custom udeb packages |
| 22:02.01 | aitor | for example, my latest iso based on ascii didn't work with the official live-installer.udeb package |
| 22:02.18 | aitor | i said it several times here an in the DNG mailing list |
| 22:03.18 | aitor | a patch done by corenominal years ago is requered for a constant behaviour of live-installer |
| 22:07.36 | aitor | devuan ascii also uses a deprecated version of main-menu.udeb, which doesn't work |
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| 22:09.10 | aitor | on the other hand, grub-installer.udeb requires a network connection in ascii (i think); so, i used an older version for gnuinos ascii |
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| 22:10.43 | fsmithred | gnu_srs, can you debootstrap an openrc system, or do you have to replace sysvinit? |
| 22:11.16 | fsmithred | brb |
| 22:11.35 | aitor | bye, fsmithred, me too :) |
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| 22:24.34 | agx_ | hi. does ascii's netinst iso exists? or i've to go through jessie first? |
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| 22:36.59 | fsmithred | no ascii installer isos yet |
| 22:37.57 | agx_ | fsmithred: ok. Is there a roadmap or a blog post where i can see what will be changed in Ascii ? |
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| 22:42.23 | fsmithred | I think there is a roadmap, but I don't recall where it is. |
| 22:42.52 | fsmithred | there's a list of packages that need their dependency on systemd removed |
| 22:43.20 | agx_ | fsmithred: oh well i wish to eradicate pulseaduio, consolekit and a few more stuffs :-P |
| 22:44.12 | fsmithred | those are easy |
| 22:45.07 | fsmithred | I've got an ascii install with none of those, no dbus, openbox a few other things. |
| 22:46.29 | fsmithred | if you don't want libsystemd0, that's harder. xorg requires it. |
| 22:48.20 | agx_ | fsmithred: unlucky i need some advanced desktop feature and i'm used to cinnamon applets and "splitted workspace per monitor"; so i'm stuck on ubuntu actually |
| 22:48.36 | agx_ | fsmithred: i want to try devuan again with xfce or kde |
| 22:49.00 | agx_ | fsmithred: ofc i already use devuan on servers :-P |
| 22:49.40 | fsmithred | you could use cinnamon |
| 22:51.07 | agx_ | fsmithred: uhm... did it get fixed? i recall i tried some month ago and it was not working |
| 22:52.22 | fsmithred | from the repo or from antofox? |
| 22:53.09 | fsmithred | I installed cinnamon in ascii from repo and had to do a couple edits to get it to work. But I'm no judge of what it can and can't do. Never used it before. |
| 22:53.18 | agx_ | fsmithred: from the repos i just s/stable/testing/g :) |
| 22:53.25 | fsmithred | but antofox is building newer packages |
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| 22:54.40 | agx_ | fsmithred: well but its not a big issue; i've hacked a script to move the window to 2nd monitor and keep it sticked; so i should be fine with xfce or kde too; i've never been a fan of all the gnome-crap-bloated things :) |
| 22:55.16 | fsmithred | xfce works fine, I hear that kde works, and trinity also works, but it's not in repo |
| 22:55.25 | agx_ | i'm just lazy otherwise openbox is fine; just gamme 2 bars at top and bottom to put some stuffs into :-P |
| 22:55.50 | fsmithred | lxpanel works |
| 22:56.59 | agx_ | fsmithred: lx full desktop? or just openbox+lxpanel ? |
| 22:57.12 | fsmithred | you could also start with one of the derivatives that have made ascii isos |
| 22:57.53 | fsmithred | openbox, lxpanel, lxterminal, lxappearance |
| 22:57.56 | fsmithred | lxrandr |
| 22:59.57 | agx_ | fsmithred: ok maybe will give lxpanel another try too... otherwise i don't have time for graphic customization and never liked the builtin stuffs they got |
| 23:00.14 | agx_ | fsmithred: thank for you time - i go sleep now :) |
| 23:08.26 | bozonius | fsr: I have mic working on FF now! Solved my entire issue by downgrading FF to previous version. |
| 23:09.08 | fsmithred | ok |
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| 23:09.16 | bozonius | the whole problem was caused by FF! |
| 23:09.18 | fsmithred | did you try flash or not? |
| 23:09.25 | bozonius | no |
| 23:09.27 | bozonius | sorry |
| 23:09.27 | fsmithred | which version are you using? |
| 23:10.17 | bozonius | 45.9, it's the one from the devuan/debian repo |
| 23:11.22 | fsmithred | this is in a vm or on hardware? |
| 23:11.32 | bozonius | devuan in vm |
| 23:11.44 | fsmithred | ok. that's what I thought |
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| 23:12.17 | bozonius | it's an ESR too |
| 23:12.41 | bozonius | but |
| 23:12.54 | bozonius | probably removing pulse from all over the place helped as well. |
| 23:13.01 | bozonius | no more stuttering or noise or ... |
| 23:14.16 | bozonius | only issue now is that I can't run more than one program with sound at a time. I think this may be related to the dmix/dsnoop issue that gnarface was instructing me on |
| 23:14.22 | bozonius | oh |
| 23:15.18 | bozonius | also, there doesn't seem to be the problem where after a while, loss of sound in the browser |
| 23:15.29 | bozonius | of course, I am now running FF not chromium, but still |
| 23:22.08 | bozonius | what I am driving at is we just spent hours debugging a problem with FF (and chromium) in effect |
| 23:24.05 | fsmithred | and possibly PA |
| 23:28.31 | bozonius | well, the initial issue was PA (stuttering) but that was quick and easy to get rid of |
| 23:28.54 | bozonius | as soon as pulse was gone, the awful performance went away |
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| 23:38.27 | bozonius | I thought it strange that you are able to get the mic to work in FF 52.2 ESR but I could not. I still don't get that part |
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| 23:42.52 | bozonius | spoke too soon. I AM having degraded sound after a while in FF. The sound just quits. If I refresh the page, sound returns |
| 23:46.00 | bozonius | but I am getting correct behavior with regards to the microphone -- it will ask me (if the particular page is smart enough; some do, others don't for some reason) |
| 23:46.46 | bozonius | fsr, gnarface: Is OSS4 any better than ALSA, or is ALSA the best? |
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