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| 00:07.30 | vvande | It looks like Devuan doesn't create enough randomness for gpg. |
| 00:07.49 | KatolaZ | vvande: it's not a problem of devuan |
| 00:08.02 | KatolaZ | if your machine has been just booted |
| 00:08.14 | KatolaZ | then you don't have enough entropy |
| 00:08.14 | vvande | I know, it is not where the problem comes from. But it is where I have it. :) |
| 00:08.34 | KatolaZ | it's just because you probably have just booted it... |
| 00:08.40 | KatolaZ | use the network |
| 00:08.47 | KatolaZ | and the disks |
| 00:08.48 | vvande | I'm working over SSH. Should I go to the machine and attach a vibrator to the mouse? lol |
| 00:09.04 | KatolaZ | use the network |
| 00:09.04 | vvande | ok |
| 00:09.04 | KatolaZ | download a large file (the kernel) |
| 00:09.06 | KatolaZ | and sync the disks |
| 00:09.55 | vvande | ok, will try that - I went to sit at the machine and browse a little, and it wasn't enough |
| 00:09.55 | KatolaZ | you might need to do that a few times, with different files |
| 00:09.57 | KatolaZ | well, it depends on the amount of randomness you need |
| 00:09.59 | vvande | thanks KatolaZ |
| 00:10.09 | vvande | appaarently more than i have :( |
| 00:10.31 | KatolaZ | if you are trying to create a 8192 bit key, then you gotta be patient... |
| 00:10.47 | vvande | a few hours of configuration and downloading programs wasn't nearly enough |
| 00:10.47 | KatolaZ | but also a 4096 one needs a lot |
| 00:10.47 | vvande | ah! |
| 00:11.17 | vvande | gotcha |
| 00:11.17 | KatolaZ | but 4096 is usually doable |
| 00:12.38 | gnarface | mouse movement is a surprisingly dense source of entropy |
| 00:13.16 | KatolaZ | well, if you can move it |
| 00:13.26 | KatolaZ | or if you have one :) |
| 00:14.29 | Oldmoss | Yes, lots of lightning chess (1 min each player/game) is good |
| 00:15.53 | KatolaZ | ehehehehhe |
| 00:20.14 | *** join/#devuan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 00:20.14 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:20.24 | KatolaZ | yes, it can be fun :) |
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| 00:27.54 | vvande | KatolaZ: I think I need something else to make this work. After doing some "more work", the request for randomness increases. After more work it was 275, when trying again right after that it was 291 bytes. |
| 00:28.30 | vvande | That's with a key of 2048 |
| 00:29.07 | KatolaZ | vvande: if you use it for a key, you loose it |
| 00:29.07 | KatolaZ | even if the key generation fails |
| 00:29.55 | KatolaZ | you can also use ls -lR, interleaved with a recursive wget,for instance |
| 00:30.14 | KatolaZ | net + disks usually can generate enough entropy for a 4096 bit key |
| 00:30.18 | KatolaZ | but you gotta wait |
| 00:30.45 | KatolaZ | do not try multiple times in a row |
| 00:30.45 | KatolaZ | or you will just waste theentropy you have generated |
| 00:34.39 | vvande | ok, thanks for that info. |
| 00:34.51 | vvande | I'll stop bothering you about it now. :) |
| 00:35.39 | vvande | I didn't know waiting did anything because the first time I waited it just exited after a short time. I figured it did that always. But I see now that it's still sitting there. |
| 00:36.05 | vvande | So I'm logged in on anoher SSH session, and waiting will probaby work this time then. |
| 00:36.07 | vvande | :) |
| 00:36.16 | KatolaZ | :) |
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| 01:07.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | where's available entropy logged? /proc somewhere? |
| 01:10.03 | vvande | I think /dev/random and /dev/urandom or something |
| 01:10.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | urandom is pseudo |
| 01:10.19 | vvande | ah |
| 01:10.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | random is the source, but not the info about status of the source |
| 01:11.19 | vvande | I've actually learnt a coulple of things in the last hour. One is that this _does_ work, but just tedious. The other is that I could have imported a key. |
| 01:11.30 | vvande | I'm quite ignorant on these things. ;) |
| 01:11.44 | vvande | in any case ..... it just finished! |
| 01:12.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, whatever you did it prolly reads random bytes from /dev/random which is known to be terribly slow |
| 01:12.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the only source of true random numbers |
| 01:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | while urandom is a pseidorandom generator |
| 01:13.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | you give it a seed and it creates the ever same pseudo random sequence from that seed |
| 01:13.36 | vvande | I just did: gpg --gen-key |
| 01:13.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 01:14.13 | vvande | in the process of installing torbrowser, which for reason is turning out to be an ordeal for me on this machine |
| 01:14.31 | vvande | I didn't have any problem last time I installed it. |
| 01:14.41 | vvande | probably just some fit of stupidity or something |
| 01:16.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see e.g. munin monitors host's available entropy, but no idea where from it gathers that info |
| 01:18.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind, found it: cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail |
| 01:21.05 | fsmithred | vvande, my entropy is bigger than yours :P |
| 01:21.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 01:21.15 | vvande | I bet it is too. |
| 01:21.30 | vvande | my FreeBSD machine doesn't need any though |
| 01:21.39 | vvande | seems a better way |
| 01:21.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks around, and decides he must be master of entropy |
| 01:21.55 | vvande | nah, |
| 01:22.07 | vvande | the dizzy broad is the master of entropy |
| 01:22.30 | vvande | entropy as a lifestyle |
| 01:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought entropy is where all life ends |
| 01:25.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually one possible definition of lifeis: it creates local spots of low entropy by using an entropy potential difference in the larger world, thus adding to the total entropy of the system |
| 01:26.02 | fsmithred | we slow down the entropy of the universe |
| 01:26.10 | fsmithred | we=all living things |
| 01:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, if all universa would be living, that would create a negative entropy total, this is impossible |
| 01:27.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's so terribly OT now, we prolly all get kicked :-) |
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| 01:37.11 | djph | DocScrutinizer05: but given the finite scope of life, and the infinite scope of the universe, there is no life in the universe. |
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| 02:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HRNG - might be available in your system to help with /dev/random |
| 02:07.21 | vvande | I've seen some (apparently) high quality USB devices for this. |
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| 02:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://onerng yep like this |
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| 02:15.27 | vvande | so $40 could have saved me an hour |
| 02:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
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| 02:31.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I always thought gpg --gen-key asks user to move mouse *and/or type random stuff on keyboard* to help with generating entropy. The later should always be possible and result in a key in short time |
| 02:31.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | or does that fail via ssh? |
| 02:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, how pathetic, gpg relies on OS entropy only, thus suggesting to type *in another terminal* |
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| 02:51.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and this is the penalty for testing that stuff http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/15/plasma-desktopLb8317.png, sometimes I _love_ snapper and btrfs |
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| 04:38.59 | aitor | people talking about the entropy |
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| 05:16.35 | vvande | I'm just waiting for the entré. |
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| 07:20.53 | aitor | \o |
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| 08:00.58 | AntoFox | morning |
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| 08:23.52 | koris | good morning |
| 08:25.37 | wigums | *grumble**grumble* coffee |
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| 11:32.12 | msiism | devuan.org seems to be down |
| 11:36.40 | debdog | seems like certificate expired |
| 11:37.31 | fsmithred | didn't this just happen a week or two ago? |
| 11:38.28 | parazyd | lel |
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| 11:41.12 | gnarface | if the problem is really that nobody can write a cron job right, i volunteer |
| 11:41.41 | djph | heh |
| 11:41.46 | fsmithred | is it back? I just pressed the Go Back button on the warning page and went to a mozilla page, then hit the real back button and went to devuan.org |
| 11:42.23 | fsmithred | ok, reload gets me the warning again. |
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| 14:23.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | wildcard cert, 2 years http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/15/plasma-desktoprW8317.png - a 200 bucks iirc. honestly you wasted way more on mandays already with LE |
| 14:31.54 | DPA | I used LE for years without problems. I mean, it's just a cron job, no sysadmin should have problems with something that trivial. |
| 14:34.25 | DPA | Also, why seams noone to configure their cron daemon to send mails, it would've been noticed way sooner that way. |
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| 14:37.26 | zdzichu | you're assuming competent sysadmin |
| 14:38.01 | golinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:42.51 | DPA | Well, without mistakes there is no room for improvement. Let's just see it as a valuable learning experience, noone's perfect. |
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| 14:46.28 | zdzichu | it's no learning experience when it happens over and over again |
| 14:47.22 | golinux | This. |
| 15:02.16 | DPA | On another note, LE will introduce free wildcard certs using DNS verification in 2018. |
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| 15:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still would prefer a static cert I can pin |
| 15:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | with self signed certs I had to trust my own evaluation once and add the cert as trusted, now I have to trust in LE CA |
| 15:28.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see the advantage in this |
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| 20:46.59 | devuan----- | Just installed devuan on my grandmothers laptop... what window system does devuan use so I can make it autologin without a password |
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| 20:47.17 | devuan----- | i thought lightdm but that's not the case |
| 20:47.20 | devuan----- | there's no config file for it |
| 20:48.08 | Capricornus | it's slim |
| 20:48.10 | devuan----- | oh |
| 20:48.10 | golinux | slim |
| 20:48.12 | devuan----- | thanks :) |
| 20:48.15 | vvande | Of course you can install anything you like. |
| 20:48.17 | Capricornus | yw :) |
| 20:48.28 | devuan----- | long as it autologins she doesnt care |
| 20:48.55 | vvande | what's slim? I got a default xfce |
| 20:48.59 | devuan----- | Edit /etc/slim.conf to uncomment the auto_login command and replace no with yes: |
| 20:48.59 | devuan----- | auto_login yes |
| 20:49.01 | devuan----- | perfect thanks :) found it |
| 20:49.14 | devuan----- | i don't agree with this from a security standpoint but shes 80 :P |
| 20:49.34 | vvande | gotta do what you gotta do |
| 20:49.47 | Capricornus | kudos for the lady using devuan :) |
| 20:49.52 | vvande | yep |
| 20:49.58 | devuan----- | yeah shes been using debian for 5 years but no longer ;) |
| 20:50.03 | devuan----- | testing this out rebooting brb |
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| 21:38.08 | TheTrueHooha | Hey, KatolaZ |
| 21:38.22 | TheTrueHooha | I have a suggestion about your networking wrapper thing |
| 21:38.51 | TheTrueHooha | I think you should change the interface to resemble something more standard like Identicurse or MC |
| 21:39.17 | *** part/#devuan catprints (~person2@172.58.86.133) |
| 21:39.40 | TheTrueHooha | Ya know, having the "OK" be a button, the sections being accessed using function keys, and the quit being one of three options, including (perhaps) F10 and q |
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| 22:16.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a random sidenote: 10 of my very first linux systems would use less diskspace than one Contents-amd64__debian filelist. Makes you ruminate |
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| 23:52.50 | bozonius | logwatch stopped sending mail about 5 days ago. My other cron job does run, though, and that sends mail ok. Googled for clues, but nothing that seems to address this. |
| 23:53.31 | bozonius | I even tried running logwatch with debug to see what it is doing. Looks like it does run through it all and generates a report. |
| 23:55.33 | bozonius | I notice that logwatch is being called with "--mail" but the documentation only provides "--mailto" |
| 23:56.04 | bozonius | otoh, this was working until 5 days ago. Logwatch was installed Jun 29, which is a week or two before this began |
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