| 00:01.09 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
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| 00:21.37 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 01:17.55 | bozonius | busy studying a new language: millenial (it's real awesome) |
| 01:18.55 | bozonius | sorry, posted this to wrong channel... |
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| 01:51.53 | *** join/#devuan myst_ (~myst@110-174-9-2.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 01:52.38 | myst_ | whats the pros and cons of chosoing ascii over jessie ? |
| 01:53.50 | Xenguy | Do you want a stable system, or a bleeding edge system? |
| 01:55.16 | myst_ | a bit of both, |
| 01:55.44 | myst_ | it.s not as if im picking unstable |
| 01:56.05 | myst_ | it's quite stable isn't it |
| 01:56.27 | Xenguy | You could try both, and see what you think |
| 01:56.43 | myst_ | unstable ceres would really be asking for problems |
| 01:57.09 | Xenguy | I have no idea (I'm running Jessie), but my impression was that ascii still had rough edges |
| 01:57.09 | myst_ | whats the feedback from those using ascii |
| 01:57.38 | Xenguy | Others will likely have better info on ascii than I |
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| 01:58.51 | gnarface | myst_: use jessie and add some stuff from backports if you absolutely need to. don't use ascii unless you are mentally prepared to consider your primary agenda to be helping with testing and bug reporting |
| 01:59.25 | myst_ | ok thks guys |
| 02:00.10 | gnarface | myst_: it's been my experience throughout the years that, paradoxically, you're gonna have more practical problems and breakages for longer periods of time because testing is in a transitional state at all times. while that's true for unstable as well, things tend to get fixed faster there too. but it's suicidally poor planning to use either one for anything important. |
| 02:00.48 | myst_ | i'm totally against systemd |
| 02:01.00 | gnarface | you're not alone here in that regard |
| 02:01.07 | myst_ | i know, |
| 02:01.35 | myst_ | have used devuan beta it was very stable, |
| 02:02.11 | myst_ | good, but alot of apps have not been upgraded like other distros |
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| 02:04.22 | gnarface | myst_: that's usually a good thing, despite what version-fetishists may tell you |
| 02:04.39 | myst_ | lol |
| 02:05.09 | gnarface | myst_: if you have an actual problem, like i said, you can get newer stuff from backports that's less well tested than stable but still more reliable than stuff they push directly into Arch or Gentoo |
| 02:05.12 | myst_ | "fetishists" are you certain this channel is kid friendly |
| 02:05.19 | myst_ | :) |
| 02:05.55 | gnarface | myst_: also be aware that debian pushes important security and stability fixes manually into those "old" versions, so you can't really judge them by version number alone. |
| 02:06.26 | gnarface | that's very important to understand, in fact |
| 02:06.57 | gnarface | because this means those "out dated" versions have gotten security fixes added *without* the opportunity for new vulnerabilities to sneak in along with new functionality |
| 02:07.04 | myst_ | yes, just finishing copying the installer, i'm about to boot & install jessie |
| 02:07.20 | gnarface | it is also critically important for maintaining stable compatibility with 3rd party and closed-source/commercial software |
| 02:07.28 | myst_ | interesting take on that |
| 02:07.32 | myst_ | :) |
| 02:07.38 | gnarface | (there's a reason why SteamOS is based on an ancient version of Debian) |
| 02:07.47 | myst_ | ok |
| 02:08.04 | myst_ | I've learn't something |
| 02:08.06 | myst_ | thanks |
| 02:08.11 | gnarface | no problem :) |
| 02:08.37 | myst_ | i'll be back here in a few minutes after i install jessie |
| 02:08.42 | myst_ | thx |
| 02:08.47 | gnarface | wait |
| 02:09.06 | myst_ | still here |
| 02:09.06 | gnarface | if you're on skylake hardware you may actually need the newer kernel from backports |
| 02:09.10 | gnarface | just fyi |
| 02:09.33 | gnarface | that's all |
| 02:10.06 | myst_ | ivy bridge 3470 |
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| 02:10.35 | gnarface | you should be fine |
| 02:11.05 | myst_ | gpu intel onboard hd2500 |
| 02:11.20 | myst_ | xeon 2-3 rd gen |
| 02:11.30 | gnarface | that should be fine too |
| 02:11.42 | myst_ | should be easy install. |
| 02:11.50 | gnarface | yea, but we'll be here if you have trouble |
| 02:11.53 | myst_ | i've not tried devuan on this pc |
| 02:12.00 | myst_ | thx |
| 02:12.06 | myst_ | see u soon |
| 02:12.13 | gnarface | luck to you |
| 02:12.44 | myst_ | should not need it done 1000's installs |
| 02:12.58 | myst_ | i prefer etcher for usb |
| 02:13.12 | myst_ | 99 % success rate |
| 02:13.32 | myst_ | i'm dual booting. & using refind |
| 02:13.54 | myst_ | i have super grub disk on standby |
| 02:14.30 | myst_ | :) |
| 02:14.35 | myst_ | bye |
| 02:18.14 | bozonius | it seems that I might need to use xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin rather than the audio-mixer plugin. However, I cannot seem to install it. |
| 02:18.30 | bozonius | tells me its not in repo |
| 02:18.33 | bozonius | :( |
| 02:24.02 | gnarface | bozonius: i see it in ceres but not in jessie. check for it in backports |
| 02:24.27 | gnarface | bozonius: (not sure, but it may mean you have to get all of xfce from backports, but i hope not) |
| 02:24.36 | mystified | install proceeding |
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| 02:25.42 | gmcastil | if i'm running devuan with slim as the login manager, what file should be run at the start of X for each user? |
| 02:26.42 | gmcastil | i'm not using startx, so .xinitrc does not get invoked |
| 02:26.48 | gmcastil | at least, that is my understanding |
| 02:26.58 | mystified | gnarface: when you have a moment |
| 02:27.13 | gnarface | ? |
| 02:27.17 | mystified | thx |
| 02:27.27 | mystified | tripple booting |
| 02:27.32 | bozonius | I tried "apt-get install -t jessie-backports xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin" but it is not found |
| 02:27.40 | mystified | manjaro-openrc with grub 2 |
| 02:27.46 | mystified | efi boot sda1 |
| 02:27.51 | mystified | openbsd |
| 02:27.56 | mystified | using refind |
| 02:28.07 | gnarface | gmcastil: try ~/.xsession or ~/.xsessionrc instead |
| 02:28.35 | mystified | can i leave the grub & run update-grub from manjaro |
| 02:28.45 | gmcastil | gnarface: do i need to exec my mindow manager at the end? or do they just get run as shell scripts? |
| 02:28.47 | mystified | or just install refind frome here |
| 02:28.57 | bozonius | switches to hexchat on his devuan VM... |
| 02:29.05 | gmcastil | i'm try to save my randr config and some xset configs |
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| 02:29.31 | mystified | chroot & install refind |
| 02:30.33 | gnarface | mystified: in theory if the grub version isn't too far off it should work from anywhere. i don't know anything about refind though |
| 02:31.42 | mystified | ill try refind installing from chroot |
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| 02:32.21 | bozonius | shudders to ask his next question |
| 02:32.50 | bozonius | would there be MUCH harm if I scalped xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin from debian's repo? |
| 02:33.03 | gnarface | gmcastil: i don't know enough about slim to know for sure that it doesn't have built-in ability to choose the window manager for you. if it doesn't, then yea you need to call it from your .xsessionrc; and yea i think they're more or less just run as a script, though i think there's exceptions where it will fall back on just looking for 'exec' lines |
| 02:33.04 | bozonius | worries his membership here might be in jeopardy... |
| 02:33.28 | gnarface | bozonius: just a risk of breaking package dependencies |
| 02:33.32 | bozonius | or would I need to install xfce4-pulseaudio-systemd-plugin-systemd instead ? |
| 02:33.55 | gmcastil | gnarface: slim doesnt seem to allow you to have a default wm |
| 02:34.00 | bozonius | or is it xfce4-systemd-pulseaudio-systemd-plugin-systemd ? |
| 02:34.31 | gnarface | bozonius: i'm guessing it's available in debian *testing* not stable. that's where the problems are caused. the correct approach is to build a copy locally from source |
| 02:34.44 | bozonius | gnarface: I saved that testing devuan VM; I could try it there. |
| 02:34.46 | gnarface | bozonius: (or file a bug report/feature request to get it pushed into backports) |
| 02:34.48 | bozonius | or build it locally |
| 02:34.59 | bozonius | but you said it is in ceres? |
| 02:35.27 | bozonius | I'd rather not bug the devs with one more bug. Unless jessie will be supported for a few years |
| 02:35.42 | bozonius | tries to be considerate |
| 02:35.51 | gnarface | bozonius: yea it's in ceres but it's for xfce 4.12.3. build it locally if you want to avoid dependency complications |
| 02:36.34 | bozonius | otoh, gnarface, now that I know the secret how to work around it, maybe I can live with this. |
| 02:37.08 | gnarface | bozonius: you can try it in your testing VM, it may even work. the problem is that the dependency complications I mention probably won't be immediately apparent. they will come back to haunt you eventually though, probably after you've forgotten about it |
| 02:37.19 | bozonius | right. |
| 02:37.27 | bozonius | that is exactly what tends to happen |
| 02:37.38 | gnarface | bozonius: another approach is you can just file a bug report against the version of the widget you're using currently |
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| 02:37.51 | bozonius | and why i don't like to pollute any of my distros unnecessarily with unsupported software |
| 02:38.02 | gmcastil | gnarface: .xsession it was and you have to put an exec <wm> at the end of the script or it just kicks you out |
| 02:38.23 | gmcastil | thanks |
| 02:38.56 | gnarface | gmcastil: yea, no problem. i'm pretty sure if it starts with #!/bin/bash it'll be executed as a script, but maybe only startx does that. |
| 02:39.08 | gmcastil | i think its a general thing |
| 02:39.32 | bozonius | btw, what IS the support time frame for devuan jessie? |
| 02:39.45 | bozonius | is it ESR or LTS? |
| 02:39.56 | gnarface | bozonius: not sure but i think "until ascii is ready" |
| 02:40.07 | bozonius | sounds like a year or two then? |
| 02:40.30 | gnarface | bozonius: well, probably alot longer than debian at least |
| 02:40.34 | mystified | didn't have to do anything refind picked it straigh up. |
| 02:41.07 | gnarface | gmcastil: slim might even still call ~/.xinitrc too, but when it starts not at login |
| 02:41.08 | mystified | no update grub. no install refind |
| 02:41.35 | mystified | refind was already installed other linux, |
| 02:41.42 | bozonius | well, regardless of devuan's support of the xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin package, clearly there is a bug in the xfce4-mixer package |
| 02:41.52 | mystified | so it's automatically picking up a new os |
| 02:41.56 | mystified | bsd included |
| 02:41.57 | gnarface | bozonius: yea, maybe THAT is the bug you should file then. |
| 02:42.10 | bozonius | it's just that xfce4 forum is recommending using the pulseaudio package |
| 02:42.17 | gnarface | mystified: good to hear |
| 02:43.10 | gnarface | bozonius: building your own backported version of it *may* be easy actually. what i can't tell you for sure is if it'll require you update the entirety of xfce too |
| 02:43.17 | mystified | thx |
| 02:43.23 | mystified | doing updates |
| 02:43.44 | bozonius | even if it does require the whole thing to be updated, then I'm running non-standard config |
| 02:44.10 | bozonius | which will makes more work for you and the other hard-working folk here |
| 02:44.19 | gnarface | bozonius: yea then you're running a custom xfce4 build, but you're still in better shape than if you mixed packages in from debian testing |
| 02:44.28 | bozonius | I think I'll just ask xfce project to fix it |
| 02:44.34 | bozonius | (oh definitely, gnarface) |
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| 02:45.59 | bozonius | mix-and-match package configs across distros is usually not encouraged anywhere in the distro world, except where there is a high affinity between them. But this is different, due to the presence of a certain thingy which spawned this dichotomy to start with. |
| 02:46.15 | bozonius | thank you, but I'll happily avoid THAT |
| 02:47.08 | bozonius | If/when xfce pushes an update to the mixer package, then devs here can just repackage it for devuan |
| 02:47.21 | bozonius | that seems simplest |
| 02:47.30 | gnarface | there's a good chance debian will do it for us :) |
| 02:47.41 | gnarface | timeframe is a big question though |
| 02:48.07 | gnarface | but nothing gets addressed without a bug report |
| 02:48.22 | bozonius | there is a caveat, though. I'm wondering if that plugin is even supported anymore. My cursory research seems to indicate they don't want to deal with xfce4-mixer anymore. |
| 02:49.12 | bozonius | someone filed a bug against xfce4-mixer at xfce4 a while back (2013?) on some other, similar issue, and it went WONT_FIX |
| 02:49.52 | bozonius | and this is even though xfce4-mixer is apparently supported for jessie (per their webpage) |
| 02:50.15 | bozonius | oh wait. no, according to debian's webpage. my ad |
| 02:50.18 | bozonius | my bad |
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| 02:54.29 | gnarface | bozonius: who marked it won'tfix? just because xfce won't fix it doesn't mean debian won't. |
| 02:54.58 | gnarface | bozonius: (and just because debian won't doesn't necessarily mean devuan won't eventually, if someone gets around to it) |
| 02:58.32 | bozonius | (looking...) |
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| 03:07.20 | gnarface | i can't imagine it's that hard to fix either, but perhaps the issue is that there's a disagreement with xfce and pulseaudio developers about what needs to be changed, precipitating the decision to just replace the widget |
| 03:07.40 | gnarface | (that happens a lot, for better or worse) |
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| 03:12.22 | gnarface | anyway, dinner time for me. i should be back in a few hours though |
| 03:12.27 | myst_ | hi gnarface: |
| 03:12.44 | gnarface | 'sup myst_ i'm just about to step away |
| 03:12.49 | myst_ | trying to install sandboxed tor browser or even torbrowser |
| 03:13.12 | myst_ | debian are saying i need jessie backports |
| 03:13.25 | myst_ | apt-get install torbrowser-launcher -t jessie-backports |
| 03:13.37 | myst_ | obviously does not woek |
| 03:13.41 | myst_ | obviously does not work |
| 03:13.45 | gnarface | myst_: yes, you have to add backports to your sources.list first |
| 03:14.09 | myst_ | i added the list debian to repositories |
| 03:14.14 | gnarface | myst_: the instructions for how to do this on debian should work just swap their URL with ours, listed here: https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan-stable-backports.list |
| 03:14.46 | gnarface | (don't forget to run apt-get update once after every change to sources.list) gotta go, good luck! |
| 03:17.05 | bozonius | Maybe I should try It in mint DE -- because that won't be using the same panel plugin ? |
| 03:17.33 | bozonius | It = decreaasing volume with panel plugin, then resuming volume and see if sound comes back |
| 03:18.19 | bozonius | by my research in the last 20 minutes or so, it may be volumed that is the culprit |
| 03:20.01 | bozonius | gnarface: See this https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed/+bug/883485 Look at top 3 entries -- it looks like (if I understand their bug system) the generic version wont be fixed, though it affects the debian and ubuntu versions (whatever that means) |
| 03:21.10 | bozonius | and note comment #2 -- that is precisely what I am observing |
| 03:31.15 | bozonius | gnarface: This is what I originally found: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10188 |
| 03:36.46 | myst_ | unable to locate it ! |
| 03:37.05 | myst_ | torbrowser, tor-browser |
| 03:37.21 | myst_ | made the chanes to both list & list.d |
| 03:37.30 | myst_ | made the changes to both list & list.d |
| 03:38.28 | bozonius | gnarface: that one was a dup; the actual bug is https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8583 |
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| 06:40.02 | gnarface | myst_: the package name might not be the same |
| 06:40.11 | gnarface | myst_: try apt-cache search ^tor |
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| 06:40.53 | gnarface | myst_: it might actually have to be: apt-cache -t jessie-backports search ^tor |
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| 06:47.55 | gnarface | bozonius: yes, i see. they say it was never intended to work with pulseaudio. but note here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed/+bug/883485 the second post has a asound.conf (should work as ~/.asoundrc too) that they said fixes it. did you try that? that seems like the easiest solution we've seen so far. |
| 06:49.01 | gnarface | bozonius: also, i tseems like the bug is still open in debian's bugtracker https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=858128 |
| 06:49.29 | gnarface | so they haven't decided not to fix it yet |
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| 06:53.51 | myst_ | back |
| 06:54.29 | myst_ | thanks |
| 06:55.06 | myst_ | ok ill reboot i'm not in that os, as ive yet to configure evrything |
| 06:55.32 | myst_ | when i come back in can you tab those commands again thx. brb |
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| 06:59.53 | myst_ | back |
| 07:00.34 | gnarface | myst_: apt-cache -t jessie-backports search ^tor |
| 07:01.09 | gnarface | try it with and without "-t jessie-backports" you might get different results, not sure |
| 07:02.27 | myst_ | whats the command to get rid of thisd i've forgotten dpkg -- configure -a something like that |
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| 07:03.53 | gnarface | dpkg-reconfigure [package name]? |
| 07:04.18 | myst_ | fix --missing |
| 07:04.41 | myst_ | W: Duplicate sources.lis |
| 07:04.58 | gnarface | you did that |
| 07:05.11 | myst_ | yes |
| 07:05.33 | gnarface | <myst_> made the chanes to both list & list.d |
| 07:05.36 | gnarface | don't do that |
| 07:05.44 | myst_ | yes |
| 07:07.36 | myst_ | got rid of 1 |
| 07:08.29 | myst_ | fixed |
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| 07:10.51 | myst_ | no go |
| 07:10.56 | myst_ | tor birdie |
| 07:11.12 | myst_ | not torbrowser-bundle |
| 07:11.24 | myst_ | not tor-browser |
| 07:12.08 | gnarface | you must have the wrong package name |
| 07:12.08 | myst_ | nothing |
| 07:12.26 | gnarface | torbrowser-bundle doesn't show up anywhere in debian either. whoever told you that gave you bad info |
| 07:13.01 | gnarface | maybe it's in there under a different package name |
| 07:13.08 | gnarface | like just "tor" perhaps? |
| 07:13.16 | myst_ | ive installed llots of time |
| 07:14.22 | gnarface | https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=torbrowser-bundle&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all |
| 07:14.24 | gnarface | see for yourself |
| 07:14.34 | gnarface | you have access to all the same info that i do |
| 07:14.36 | myst_ | https://wiki.debian.org/TorBrowser |
| 07:15.51 | myst_ | ive installed lots of time |
| 07:16.13 | gnarface | yea, this suggests it WAS there once... it wouldn't be the first package to ever be removed though |
| 07:16.23 | gnarface | nor to be renamed, for that matter |
| 07:17.26 | gnarface | oh |
| 07:17.33 | gnarface | but that says it's only in *stretch-backports |
| 07:17.35 | gnarface | not jessie |
| 07:18.22 | gnarface | and like i said, i'm not seeing it in unstable anymore on debian or devuan, which suggests that it's been dropped completely, and this wiki page is simply out-of-date |
| 07:18.31 | myst_ | apt-get install torbrowser-launcher -t jessie-backports |
| 07:18.52 | myst_ | https://wiki.debian.org/Backports#Adding_the_repository |
| 07:19.01 | gnarface | maybe there's something in jessie you could use instead? |
| 07:19.31 | myst_ | ill go to debian channel & see what they say |
| 07:19.44 | gnarface | well they'll tell you to install debian, of course |
| 07:19.58 | gnarface | and then when it's still not there, they'll be like "woops!" |
| 07:20.29 | myst_ | what about using ubuntu repository |
| 07:20.42 | gnarface | mixing distros is always a bad idea |
| 07:20.44 | myst_ | how to add ubuntus |
| 07:20.59 | gnarface | if you need a copy that bad, you probably should build it yourself |
| 07:21.11 | aaro | gnarface, why not just download torbrowser form the tor site, extract it ans execute it? it's simpler :) |
| 07:21.37 | myst_ | https://www.linuxbabe.com/desktop-linux/install-tor-browser-on-ubuntu-16-04-via-ppa |
| 07:21.40 | JotaMG | myst_ : you can get it from here |
| 07:21.41 | JotaMG | http://snapshot.debian.org/binary/torbrowser-launcher/ |
| 07:21.48 | myst_ | i want the icon for panel |
| 07:21.51 | gnarface | aaro: because then it's unpackaged, out-of-distro software. no way to cleanly uninstall or upgrade |
| 07:22.29 | myst_ | i foun this from reddit , how ot install as a tar as per usual, |
| 07:23.00 | aaro | https://www.torproject.org/ |
| 07:23.03 | myst_ | in the video it shows how to make an applet for unity, how would i make it for xfce |
| 07:23.18 | myst_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5GspPINlqs |
| 07:23.24 | myst_ | goto 2mins 10 secs |
| 07:23.54 | gnarface | you're gonna have to check the xfce docs for that yourself, i can't tell you |
| 07:24.13 | aaro | uninstall? delete the extracted folder. update? press the update button from browser |
| 07:24.51 | myst_ | I've goto go marinade some lamb for dinner be back in 1o |
| 07:24.53 | myst_ | I've goto go marinade some lamb for dinner be back in 10 |
| 07:24.54 | myst_ | thx |
| 07:25.07 | gnarface | aaro: badly advised |
| 07:26.57 | aaro | lol whatever do what you want my friend :) |
| 07:48.32 | myst_ | Back |
| 07:48.42 | myst_ | lamb back strap for dinner |
| 07:48.47 | myst_ | mediterian style |
| 07:48.51 | myst_ | Yum |
| 07:50.32 | myst_ | how do i use pgp key, what commands |
| 07:50.49 | myst_ | https://dist.torproject.org/torbrowser/7.5a1/sandbox-0.0.7-linux64.zip.asc |
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| 07:56.16 | gnarface | https://www.torproject.org/docs/verifying-signatures.html.en |
| 07:56.31 | gnarface | man gpg |
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| 12:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://xkcd.com/1700/ sounds like systemd, doesn't it? ;-) |
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| 12:29.49 | MinceR | lol, yes it does |
| 12:32.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly the hovertext |
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| 14:04.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe a question for #network, but related to dev1galaxy.org so asking here: what makes a router (in mtr) yield 60% packet loss on ping while "normal" connections (TCP:80) are working just fine? |
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| 14:09.36 | parazyd | how do you know they're working jsut fine? |
| 14:14.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | because http://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 14:14.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I can't tell for sure but it _looks_ good |
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| 14:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think if there were 60+% packet loss on HTTP you'd notice |
| 14:16.40 | parazyd | if you know your way around wireshark, you could analyze tcp packet loss |
| 14:17.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's however hardly to the point |
| 14:17.51 | parazyd | you'd get to see if tcp is working fine as you think it is |
| 14:17.54 | minnesotags | DocScrutinizer05: I don't know, but MTU Discovery/MSS Clamping caused me heartache the other day. |
| 14:18.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/07/plasma-desktoptS8317.png |
| 14:20.25 | parazyd | https://pub.parazyd.cf/tmp/screenshots/screenshot30.png |
| 14:20.45 | minnesotags | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_MTU_Discovery |
| 14:23.11 | minnesotags | That would in fact cause packet loss to/from some connections but most "normal" connections will work just fine. |
| 14:23.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | MTU and fragmenting hardly kicks in on ICMP pings (56byte iirc), no? |
| 14:24.22 | minnesotags | from the link "Many network security devices block all ICMP messages for perceived security benefits,[6] including the errors that are necessary for the proper operation of PMTUD." |
| 14:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, ok. Still no excuse for 70% ping loss on a intermediate router. Maybe I don't even grok the output of mtr |
| 14:25.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | 100% loss I'd understand |
| 14:26.59 | minnesotags | Just something to check into. |
| 14:27.08 | minnesotags | Don't gotta.... |
| 14:28.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway dev1galaxy.org is up again \o/ |
| 14:29.24 | minnesotags | I'm sure it's just fine. |
| 14:30.21 | rrq | .. somewhere it suggests: "it is common practice among some service providers to rate limit the ICMP traffic" |
| 14:30.44 | rrq | .. "This can give the illusion of packet loss when there is in fact no loss." |
| 14:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | rate limit would explain it, yes. Perfect, many thanks |
| 14:35.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed mtr -i5 fixes that "issue" |
| 14:36.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm nope, only delays it, starts with 10th packet |
| 14:37.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I guess rate limit is the answer. Thanks |
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| 14:55.51 | aitor | hi |
| 15:03.43 | aitor | parazyd: yestersday's issue has been solved :) |
| 15:03.59 | parazyd | i still don't know what the issue exactly was :) |
| 15:05.37 | parazyd | so now you got the kernel as a package? |
| 15:07.10 | aitor | uploading the generated packages (still a work in progress), but yesterday's bug is solved |
| 15:07.27 | parazyd | ok |
| 15:07.40 | parazyd | now, when you start running the kernel you will encounter more issues |
| 15:08.04 | parazyd | on i386, any application using 3d (libGL) can't properly relocate the library |
| 15:08.12 | parazyd | meaning mesa has to be recompiled properly |
| 15:08.27 | aitor | now, i have another bug with the udeb packages, but this is my fault |
| 15:08.43 | parazyd | other memory hungry packages you will have to disable memory protection (use paxctl) |
| 15:08.55 | parazyd | you can see all of this in dmesg |
| 15:09.02 | aitor | nope |
| 15:09.19 | parazyd | nope what? |
| 15:09.44 | aitor | it's not a memory issue, trololosh |
| 15:10.04 | parazyd | it is, grsecurity doesn't allow the program to allocate that much |
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| 15:10.51 | aitor | i'm not using it, only building |
| 15:11.14 | parazyd | i reckon you were building it so you can try it out :D |
| 15:12.35 | aitor | 17:15 in spain, time to bed |
| 15:13.05 | aitor | see you :) |
| 15:13.10 | parazyd | o/ |
| 15:13.32 | fsda6342 | Is there a devuan/raspberry pi community? |
| 15:15.56 | golinux | Try #devuan-arm |
| 15:16.15 | furrywolf | DocScrutinizer51: some routers seem to answer pings on an "if I feel like it" basis. I don't know why, but I've seen it a lot. |
| 15:16.54 | golinux | fsda6342: ^^^ |
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| 15:19.49 | fsda6342 | I found devuan-arm and got it running on the pi. I was just hoping for some guidance getting at the pi's gpio pins, and it's i2c functionality. |
| 15:20.53 | furrywolf | DocScrutinizer51: generally if the packet loss to the final destination is normal, you can ignore stupid results from intermediate hops. |
| 15:21.08 | parazyd | fsda6342: more work has to be done for those. are you missing the kernel sources? |
| 15:23.16 | fsda6342 | No, I followed your pointer on devuan-arm, and found the build script and kernel sources. But it's been since the mid 90's since I poked around the kernel much. I was hoping I could follow in someone's footsteps here. |
| 15:23.37 | fsda6342 | If I have to figure it all out, progress will me much slower. |
| 15:28.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess you need to look for device tree |
| 15:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | a pretty "new" concept in kernel |
| 15:30.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly non-fitting the ARM arch ;-) |
| 15:30.29 | parazyd | the pi doesn't use the usual dtbs |
| 15:30.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh? |
| 15:30.38 | parazyd | in fact they have their own blobs |
| 15:30.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's ARM, no? |
| 15:30.50 | parazyd | the rpi boot process is a bit different |
| 15:30.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, THAT, yes |
| 15:31.09 | parazyd | it first powers up the gpu, which then holds instructions to perform the actual bootup |
| 15:31.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 15:31.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | as FOSS as it gets x-P |
| 15:31.36 | parazyd | as for device trees, i really hope we won't need them in the near future |
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| 15:33.28 | fsda6342 | OK, I can see I have some studying ahead of me. Thanks. I'll probably be back with more questions as I start to figure things out. |
| 15:33.38 | parazyd | sure |
| 15:33.46 | parazyd | are you trying to compile some gpio libraries? |
| 15:33.46 | aitor | parazyd: i didn't attach the link |
| 15:34.07 | parazyd | fsda6342: let me know which, i could eventually try it out too |
| 15:34.35 | aitor | here you are: |
| 15:34.37 | aitor | http://gnuinos.org/build-area/ |
| 15:34.56 | fsda6342 | I've been playing with arduino and cypress micro controllers, and want to move up to a more powerful platform. |
| 15:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | hates devices with closed blob and/or locked bootloaders |
| 15:35.54 | parazyd | aitor: you didn't build amd64? |
| 15:36.10 | aitor | as you can see, there are some cpupower and usbip packages |
| 15:36.20 | parazyd | right |
| 15:36.33 | aitor | parazyd: still not |
| 15:36.51 | parazyd | this one has the libGL problems i mentioned |
| 15:37.11 | parazyd | which means when i get proper access to our jenkins i'll have to recompile mesa properly |
| 15:37.18 | aitor | the udeb packages are still missing :) |
| 15:37.36 | parazyd | right now you can't start any software using libGL (which also includes any qt(5) software) |
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| 15:57.56 | lowin | Is it a bad idea to try to update to ascii? I need linux 4.9 but as I recall from debian jessie, installing it from backports bricked a lot of things including x.org that wasn't hassle free |
| 15:58.07 | lowin | to fix* |
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| 16:12.53 | detha | lowin: I am happily running devuan1.0 with a kernel from backports, and xfce4. Nothing broke. |
| 16:13.31 | lowin | huh |
| 16:13.38 | lowin | I guess I give it a go then. thanks |
| 16:13.48 | buZz | i run backport kernel on jessie aswell , just fine |
| 16:14.53 | detha | X breakage may be video driver related, so what works for my setup may not work in yours. Caveat emptor |
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| 16:15.47 | parazyd | what exactly is broken lowin? |
| 16:16.04 | buZz | nothing yet :D please hold! |
| 16:16.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel is üprolly the least risk to backport - as long as it's no major revision |
| 16:16.10 | lowin | parazyd, nothing as of now. I'm afraid something will be |
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| 16:16.20 | parazyd | i meant for xorg |
| 16:16.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | except of course for 'proprietary' video drivers |
| 16:17.09 | lowin | parazyd, crashed at startup. I had to hunt down some packages from backports to fix it |
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| 16:19.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | also kernel can conveniently get tested, with implicit rollback, simply by boot menu options |
| 16:20.09 | parazyd | the kernel usually shouldn't cause an issue for you starting xorg |
| 16:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW install new kernel parallel |
| 16:21.20 | lowin | DocScrutinizer05, ofcourse but booting the old kernel won't help much since the point of this exercise is to upgrade the kernel in the first place. anyway, it's installing now |
| 16:21.48 | lowin | If I don't log back in within 5 minutes you know something went horribly wrong |
| 16:22.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | lowin: I meant fallback option to 'last working' in case new kernel crashes on boot |
| 16:22.51 | lowin | DocScrutinizer05, nah it's gonna boot to a terminal anyway |
| 16:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly, yes |
| 16:24.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/25040269 ;-D |
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| 16:26.33 | lowin | Well.. that went better than expected |
| 16:27.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
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| 16:29.06 | parazyd | :) |
| 16:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf? grub2 is bloatware http://paste.ubuntu.com/25040288 |
| 16:30.30 | lowin | and dmesg with colors.. cool |
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| 16:35.40 | buZz | which part of that is bloat? |
| 16:36.01 | buZz | if you dont want to sendkeys to your grub2, just delete sendkey.mod |
| 16:36.02 | buZz | etc |
| 16:36.10 | fsmithred_ | lowin, if you want to try a live iso that has backports kernel it's here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/experimental/devuan_jessie_amd64_bpo_desktop-live-20170522_1240.iso |
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| 16:37.26 | lowin | fsmithred_, appreciate it. I already went through the upgrade |
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| 17:25.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | KILL IT WITH FIRE! http://paste.ubuntu.com/25040595 |
| 17:25.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry |
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| 18:16.59 | Pali | this could be interested for you: systemd "not-a-bug" ticket https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237 was locked for future discussion... and later got CVE: https://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2017-1000082 |
| 18:20.05 | buZz | ahaha lol |
| 18:20.49 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 18:21.25 | buZz | got it today :) |
| 18:21.30 | buZz | and still pending ; https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2017-1000082#vulnConfigurationsArea |
| 18:25.55 | golinux | LOL! |
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| 18:31.12 | specing | 40 downvotes on lennart |
| 18:31.25 | specing | probably the most downvoted dev on github |
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| 18:47.56 | DPA | Can I savely assume that the codename in the Release files in the subdirectories of https://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dist/ will always be the same as the name of the subdirectory unless it was a symbolic link? |
| 18:49.08 | DPA | *safely |
| 18:49.36 | Chanku | Alright so I have this really weird issue :| |
| 18:52.23 | Chanku | and fixed it |
| 18:54.32 | fsmithred_ | antica... |
| 18:54.51 | fsmithred_ | pation |
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| 19:06.23 | DPA | Or is there a better way to detect which links are folders and which links are symlinks? |
| 19:07.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm rsync - sorry |
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| 19:10.42 | DPA | I tried "rsync --list-only auto.mirror.devuan.org::" but I just get an error "Connection refused" |
| 19:11.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | !amprolla |
| 19:11.35 | infobot | nextime gave an excellent explanation how amprolla works, at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2016-05-07/?msg=65646427&page=4, or https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla |
| 19:11.55 | KatolaZ | DPA: files.devuan.org::devuan |
| 19:12.02 | KatolaZ | DPA: https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt |
| 19:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's about file server mirrors though |
| 19:13.36 | KatolaZ | DPA: there is no rsync access on packages.devuan.org atm |
| 19:13.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan/ != http://neo900.files.dev-1.org/ |
| 19:14.58 | detha | talking about mirrors, I see there are two mirror layouts now? |
| 19:17.03 | detha | ah, ne'er mind, was just the mirror list on the website being less than consistent |
| 19:19.47 | metax | lol will devuan run on neo900? |
| 19:19.47 | parazyd | metax: it already runs on n900 <3 |
| 19:21.04 | DPA | So, will the parent directory of a Release file always contain a folder with the same name as the codename of the release? |
| 19:22.38 | metax | oh wtf, it's available to order Oo |
| 19:22.38 | metax | i wasn't aware |
| 19:25.54 | DPA | I try to auto-generate my /etc/apt/mirror.list and symlink releases. (1.0 => jessie, etc.) |
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| 20:38.08 | zyliwax | is there a roadmap charting progress towards releasing ascii available somewhere? |
| 20:38.21 | zyliwax | (as stable, i know it's available right now from testing) |
| 20:46.01 | vvande | Every time I see that name "ascii" I can't help but hope that the American Standard Code for Information Interchange sues Debian for misuse. |
| 20:46.18 | vvande | It's a really confusing name, and I hope that's not deliberate. |
| 20:51.22 | gnarface | vvande: https://devuan.org/os/releases |
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| 20:52.11 | zdzichu | vvande: you mean "sues Devuan"? |
| 20:52.27 | gnarface | zyliwax: i don't think so, but there are forums and a mailing list |
| 20:52.29 | vvande | no |
| 20:53.08 | vvande | I just think that using an old name with a specific meaning in this way is a bad idea, and I find it quite irritating. :) |
| 20:53.26 | vvande | I can't imagine why Debian decided to use that. |
| 20:54.07 | zdzichu | where Debian did that? |
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| 20:54.55 | vvande | ok, I was just doing a "google" and it looks like I'm wrong |
| 20:55.06 | vvande | so "ascii" is not a Debian release name? |
| 20:55.20 | zdzichu | no, it's devuan's |
| 20:55.24 | gnarface | ascii corresponds to debian stretch |
| 20:55.58 | zdzichu | current debian is strech, next is "buster" and then "bullseye" |
| 20:57.05 | vvande | thanks for putting me straight on that :) |
| 20:57.19 | Lydia_K | ascii is the name of an asteroid |
| 20:57.29 | vvande | Of course I wish only the best for Devuan (and Debian). |
| 20:57.35 | zyliwax | gnarface: thanks for the information, i thought most recent info would be on the git but search returned no results for ascii so perhaps that's not where the action is |
| 20:58.11 | gnarface | zyliwax: jessie is still the devuan stable for now, regardless of debian's choices |
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| 20:58.45 | Lydia_K | I like the name ascii, though I do see how it can make googling a hassle. |
| 20:58.57 | zyliwax | gnarface: yeah that's totally fine by me, backports are satifsying my needs for newer software at the moment without hosing the rest of my system |
| 20:59.56 | zyliwax | i'm finding that "devuan" itself is often being assumed to be a typo for "debian" -- but as it becomes more famous i suspect this misunderstanding will diminish |
| 21:00.01 | vvande | in the world of computers "ascii" has a specific meaning |
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| 21:02.58 | vvande | hmm, looks like my connection went down |
| 21:03.54 | detha | personally I find the whole names thing annoying. What is wrong with just giving it a version number? |
| 21:04.08 | vvande | ^ |
| 21:04.14 | vvande | tottal agree! |
| 21:04.31 | vvande | it is VERY annoying |
| 21:05.03 | msiism | are you talking about names for the devuan release branches? |
| 21:05.12 | detha | yeah |
| 21:05.19 | vvande | I realalize it my personal shortcoming, but I can never remember if "cheese" comes before "chocolate" comes before "rubber". Like wtf? |
| 21:05.27 | davec_ | Version numbers > names. |
| 21:05.32 | vvande | no |
| 21:05.39 | vvande | they're different |
| 21:05.51 | vvande | they contain completely different characters |
| 21:06.08 | zyliwax | there are version numbers |
| 21:06.19 | vvande | oops, sorry didn't see the > davec_ |
| 21:06.20 | zyliwax | devuan jessie is version 1.0.0 |
| 21:06.31 | zyliwax | presumably devuan ascii will be version 2.0.0 |
| 21:06.50 | zyliwax | bumping the less significant version numbers as necessary |
| 21:06.52 | davec_ | >> = much better than |
| 21:06.54 | vvande | yeah, but with all the different Linux distros, I'm too stupid to remember all the translations. :( |
| 21:07.15 | zyliwax | rolling release distros don't have this problem :) |
| 21:07.22 | msiism | and it does make sense to name these, since the exact version number of a stable release (jessie at the moment) may change. |
| 21:08.23 | detha | Canonical did something right, at least they stuck to alphabetical order, unlike debian. That makes it as least slightly easier to see what is newer |
| 21:08.44 | zyliwax | maybe then it'd be nice to stay on ceres, because it'll always be ceres as long as devuan blesses this green earth |
| 21:09.25 | vvande | msiism: so you're saying that Jessie is not going to be version 8 every time? |
| 21:09.35 | detha | nothing wrong with have 'stable', 'testing' and 'bleeding-edge'. But please don't invent cute names that people cannot remember |
| 21:10.26 | msiism | vvande: well, for devuan it is 1.0.0 atm, but that bay change. see https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170114 for a debian example. |
| 21:10.27 | vvande | numbers are understood to be sequential - it's a well know sequence |
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| 21:10.44 | gnarface | well it looks like devuan WILL stick to alphabetical-ordered names, so there's that at least |
| 21:10.54 | vvande | at least |
| 21:11.59 | DPA | vvande: Debian Jessie isn't version 8, Its version 8.8 |
| 21:12.07 | msiism | detha: the thing is, stabel, testing, unstable are not fixed relesae names |
| 21:12.27 | msiism | whereas jessie, ascii etc. are |
| 21:12.46 | detha | msiism: that is what version numbers are for. |
| 21:12.51 | msiism | so, if you wanted to stay with jessie al the way from it being testing to it being oldstable, you could do that |
| 21:13.12 | msiism | but version numbers are not what you add to your sources.list file. |
| 21:13.18 | detha | 'current stable is 1.0'. Next month, current stable is 2.0 |
| 21:13.44 | msiism | detha: and if it were, you would have to update that version number on an update release |
| 21:13.48 | msiism | which would be annoying |
| 21:14.08 | vvande | DPA: so you're arguing that the most significant number is not 8 because there are other numbers following that - to me that's absurd |
| 21:14.10 | vvande | :) |
| 21:15.03 | detha | msiism: baseurl=http://mirror/centos/$releasever/os/$basearch in my local repos works fine, tyvm |
| 21:15.44 | zyliwax | the sources.list argument doesn't hold much water for me, in theory there is nothing stopping the release from simply being named "1", "2", etc. and being listed in sources.list as such |
| 21:15.54 | zyliwax | (i say this as a fan of actual version names) |
| 21:16.05 | detha | I can replace the $releasever with 6.9, if I want to pin it to a release, or let it happily upgrade |
| 21:16.57 | msiism | detha: but you would not be able to pin it to the version 6 release as such. |
| 21:17.27 | detha | msiism: I just said, replace it in the local sources file, and it is pinned to that release |
| 21:17.51 | detha | (not that that is a good idea, but one can do it) |
| 21:18.40 | msiism | detha: by using a rlease code name (e.g. jessie) you will get (for debian) 8.0 to 8.7 (inclusing all the security updates. |
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| 21:19.03 | phibes | what repositories do I have to add to get things like virtualbox guest additions? I don't find them in apt-cache search |
| 21:19.17 | msiism | detha: it's not the same as pinning it to 8.7 |
| 21:19.26 | detha | same applies there (there are /update/ lines too) |
| 21:19.38 | msiism | detha: ok |
| 21:20.07 | detha | It is just one of those little things, the silly names have kept me from using debian for a long time |
| 21:20.28 | msiism | well, i find them easier to remember than version numbers |
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| 21:21.04 | detha | everybody to their taste, I find them a huge nuisance |
| 21:22.05 | DPA | vvande: You initially wrote "version", not "major version". Version 8 and version 8.8 aren't the same, given the previous context that they may change for the same release, which implies that the full version is ment. |
| 21:23.53 | detha | yeah. for centos, I can use 6.8, 6.9, or just 6. On the mirrors 6 is a symlink to 'latest minor in the 6.x series' |
| 21:24.32 | detha | much easier to remember than names that have no meaning to me |
| 21:25.00 | msiism | well, ceres, certainly means something, doesn't it? |
| 21:25.19 | detha | 'fruit juice' |
| 21:25.40 | detha | (ceres is a local brand of fruit juice here) |
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| 21:26.51 | phibes | does anybody happen to know if there are other repos that devuan doesn't include in the default install? |
| 21:28.12 | phibes | I'm looking for this package https://packages.debian.org/jessie/virtualbox-guest-additions-iso |
| 21:28.21 | msiism | detha: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(mythology) |
| 21:28.35 | phibes | only thing that comes up in apt-cache search is libvirt* |
| 21:28.49 | msiism | detha: but i don't know if that's coincindence, to be honest |
| 21:29.40 | msiism | phibes: do you have the non-free repos activated? |
| 21:29.54 | msiism | i think it's not done in the default install |
| 21:29.55 | phibes | for some of them, I just added 'non-free' to the lines in sources.list that didnt have them |
| 21:30.33 | msiism | can you paste that file somwhere? |
| 21:30.35 | phibes | msiism: I was able to find that specific package by adding non-free |
| 21:30.47 | msiism | and do you have the contrib as well? |
| 21:30.59 | phibes | no i dont, let me add that |
| 21:31.56 | phibes | msiism: thanks btw |
| 21:32.23 | msiism | phibes: welcome. does it work now? |
| 21:32.42 | phibes | msiism: yes! I see A LOT more packages now |
| 21:33.11 | msiism | before you install... |
| 21:33.22 | phibes | caress |
| 21:33.29 | msiism | the package you want recomends stuff from contrib |
| 21:33.37 | phibes | yeah i added contrib |
| 21:33.39 | phibes | before i installed |
| 21:33.48 | msiism | you may want to make sure, you really want that to be installed |
| 21:34.14 | msiism | virtualbox-guest-additions-iso does not actually have any dependencies, according to packages.debian.org |
| 21:35.15 | msiism | but it recommends virtualbox, which you should probably install |
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