IRC log for #devuan on 20170706

00:07.23XenguyStands the test of time
00:07.29Xenguyducks...
00:11.06vvandequestion about Devuan repositories: Can Firefox be distributed with different defaults compiled in?
00:12.26vvandeI'm asking because I just did a Devuan install and discovered that FF53 no longer has ALSA support. So ... no sound for people who don't use Pulse Audio.
00:12.44vvandeI had to move to Chromium - which wasn't what I'd really wanted.
00:13.51XenguyI wonder if that is true for FF-esr also?
00:14.24vvandeit is
00:15.24fsmithred52.2.0esr-1~deb8u1 in jessie still works with alsa
00:19.35*** join/#devuan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org)
00:19.35*** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/
00:19.41vvandejust alsa
00:19.47fsmithredsame here
00:19.51vvandePA is not installed.
00:20.09vvandehmm - could it be that I've got the 32bit install?
00:20.31fsmithredshouldn't be, but I don't know.
00:21.13vvandelots of info in this thread: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345661
00:21.34fsmithredlots of info in an earlier discussion here, too.
00:21.40vvandeok
00:22.13fsmithredhttps://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/
00:22.28vvandethanks
00:23.00vvandeoh - lol
00:23.15fsmithredgo up a couple hours
00:26.23vvandeyeah, got it thanks :)
00:26.37fsmithredcool. good luck.
00:27.31golinuxvvande: Search for apulse here and on dng.  Also on the forum iirc.
00:28.10golinuxGets FF to work without PA
00:28.22fsmithreddoes 52 require PA?
00:28.38fsmithredI just realized that I have apulse installed from long ago
00:29.45vvandeapparently ALSA has been officially dropped by FF
00:30.21golinuxNot till 57 iirc
00:30.38vvandethen what is that buzilla thread about?
00:30.43vvandescratches head
00:30.58golinuxPA and systemd  - the ebola of software.
00:31.09*** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com)
00:33.20vvandeha
00:33.30fsmithredthis thread says 52. Looks like there may be a fixed package in MX repo: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=639579#p639579
00:35.41*** join/#devuan Spagno (~Spagno@host227-35-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
00:36.02DocScrutinizer05feels nausea
00:37.43gnarfacefirefox-esr 52.2.0esr-1 in ceres currently does not require pulseaudio
00:37.53DocScrutinizer05it's a mystery yet to be resoved how a single person can force so much poor quality software into a living healthy FOSS ecosystem like linux despite everybody hates that stuff
00:38.20gnarfaceno mystery
00:38.24gnarfaceRedHat
00:38.37vvandelotta hats these days
00:38.48vvandelike asshats, for example
00:40.04vvandeAnyway, that apulse looks like just the ticket. I'm going to try that. This new box is still so new that I don't mind breaking it or fooling with it for a while.
00:40.22vvandeThanks for the link fsmithred.
01:07.45*** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d)
15:00.23*** join/#devuan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org)
15:00.23*** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/
15:01.21Wasphttp://textuploader.com/dkjue
15:01.52Wasphere is my output from gcc when running on a hello world program with #include <mbus/mbus.h>
15:02.03WaspI'll try
15:02.14parazydyou must be using an older version
15:02.29parazydi just compiled the latest git you linked me and there are no mentions of u_char
15:02.42Wasp$ dpkg -l | grep -i libmbus
15:02.42Waspii  libmbus-dev                           0.8.0                                amd64        FreeSCADA M-Bus Library Development files.
15:02.45Waspii  libmbus1                              0.8.0                                amd64        FreeSCADA M-Bus Library.
15:02.56Waspokay I will to start over
15:03.46Waspwith -D_GNU_SOURCE it works out :o
15:04.27Waspbut isn't it the same as -I/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ ?
15:05.05parazydno, not at all
15:05.29parazyd-I just tells the compiler where to additionally grab headers aside from the default locations
15:05.44parazyddefining _GNU_SOURCE actually uses the stuff guarded by #ifdefs in the code
15:06.29parazydon bsd you also have a _BSD_SOURCE macro that will enable u_char too
15:06.36parazydbut these things should be avoided in general
15:07.47parazydjust use unsigned char
15:07.57*** join/#devuan blitzed (~blitzed@cpe-75-80-44-59.san.res.rr.com)
15:08.58Waspya, read that already but the libmbus isn't mine. ;)
15:09.07KatolaZWasp: also, if you are compiling with std=c11, you should avoid GNU_SOURCE altogether
15:09.35Wasphaha
15:09.36Waspokay
15:09.46Waspin short: just avoid u_char ;)
15:11.42Waspokay thank you :)
15:12.29Waspby the way: how to I get `apt-get source vim` working on devuan?
15:13.07parazydwait for amprolla3 to be deployed
15:13.57KatolaZWasp: ?
15:14.04*** join/#devuan DingoSaar (~hagen@pD9E092F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
15:14.22KatolaZyou must add the deb-src
15:14.26KatolaZand give the command
15:14.58KatolaZWasp: there is nothing special to do
15:15.08WaspKatolaZ: yeah guessed this but couldn't find the correct deb-src line. Doesn't seem to be part of the default devuan environment
15:15.24KatolaZit's exactly the same of the deb line
15:15.30KatolaZonly, it starts with deb-src
15:15.32KatolaZ:)_
15:16.03KatolaZdeb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii main
15:16.03KatolaZdeb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii main
15:16.03KatolaZdeb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ experimental main
15:16.04KatolaZdeb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ experimental main
15:16.06KatolaZ....
15:16.22KatolaZwell, you should use auto.mirror.devuan.org
15:16.29KatolaZbut it's exactly the same story
15:18.23Waspin fact the default setup from devuan 1.0.0 (iso) is packages.devuan.org
15:18.56KatolaZyeah I know
15:21.23Waspchanged to auto.mirror but still
15:21.30WaspE: Unable to find a source package for vim
15:21.55parazydwait for amprolla3 to be deployed
15:22.25Wasp^^
15:23.52Wasp.. whatever it will be. ;)
15:24.00KatolaZWasp: have you apt-get update-d?
15:24.10WaspKatolaZ: -d?
15:24.23WaspI did `apt-get update`
15:24.29KatolaZI have just given apt-get source vim
15:24.30KatolaZin ascii
15:24.38Waspokay, don't know about ascii
15:24.39KatolaZand I downloaded all the stuff
15:24.49WaspI am kinda new to debian/devuan
15:24.52KatolaZshouldn't be different in jessie
15:25.00Waspseems it is
15:25.01KatolaZhave you run apt-get update
15:25.04Waspyes
15:25.11KatolaZafter you have edited sources.list?
15:25.22Waspdeb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan jessie main
15:25.30Waspyes
15:25.38KatolaZno mate
15:25.42KatolaZit should be
15:25.53KatolaZdeb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main
15:26.02KatolaZsorry
15:26.05KatolaZI misled you
15:26.24*** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@hq.m3team.it)
15:26.30KatolaZit should be exactly the same line you have for "deb"
15:26.36KatolaZonly starting with "deb-src"
15:26.59WaspIs there somewhere an explanation of all these mystical mirrors and parameters?
15:29.22Waspduplicate line with this one: deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main
15:29.57Waspokay seems I have to head out
15:30.14Waspthank you anyway so far for you kind help
15:31.23parazydo/
15:34.26*** join/#devuan guru (~guru@c-66-31-121-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
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15:47.25*** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@211.110-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
16:15.07*** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-bceebc-209.dhcp.inet.fi)
16:16.36*** join/#devuan engideavr (~damiano@host10-38-static.197-31-b.business.telecomitalia.it)
16:17.28*** join/#devuan msiism (~msi@dslb-188-103-134-174.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
16:18.36msiismseems like dev1galaxy.org is sort of down
16:25.57golinuxmsiism: Yeah.  Cheap host is totally down.
16:29.31msiismsorry to hear that.
16:30.13parazydgolinux: why isn't d1g migrated to the devuan infra. afaik we got a new bare metal machine
16:31.39golinuxThat's been talked about for months.
16:32.11golinuxBut out of my control.
16:32.28parazyd:(
16:33.02KatolaZI agree it should be moved on our infra
16:33.11golinuxEarly on the host was unreliable but then settled in.  Have not had an outage in many months.
16:33.29KatolaZI remember that for some reason we couldn't do it at the time when we set the new gitlab
16:33.40KatolaZwhich wasn't months ago, anyway
16:33.47KatolaZwe got the new server at the end of May
16:34.05golinuxWe've been discussing the move since January
16:34.14KatolaZyes but the move to what?
16:34.25KatolaZnow we can move it
16:34.29parazydto the bare metal
16:34.32parazydon a new kvm or something
16:34.41KatolaZparazyd: we got the bare metal at the end of may :)
16:34.51parazydwe have a bunch of ip addresses now, don't we?
16:34.56KatolaZnot any more
16:35.01parazydhm?
16:35.04KatolaZmaybe #devuan-dev?
16:35.11golinuxJust let us know when and how.
16:36.19*** join/#devuan ChubYann (~ChubYann@AToulouse-659-1-101-254.w90-30.abo.wanadoo.fr)
16:39.19msiismas i've already posted on the forum, the Devuan i386 netinstall image is wrongly labeled "Debian 1.0 i386 1"
16:43.51msiismi mean the CD label displayed in file managers and such
16:46.18*** join/#devuan agl (~Die_Kirsc@ipb21bb0b8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
16:48.16msiismseem the wiki has been moved: http://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php
16:48.52golinuxYes, That happened yesterday.
16:49.06msiismis it save to work on?
16:49.42golinuxI assume so.  Didn't you get FTG's email?
16:49.53msiismnot that i know of
16:50.24golinuxAh only sent to me.  I'll forward
16:50.28*** join/#devuan MiyoLinux (6c5198c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.81.152.198)
16:50.29msiismthanks
16:50.55MiyoLinuxDrat...think I was on the wrong channel a while ago!
16:52.35MiyoLinuxHi everyone! I'll ask again here if that's okay...
16:52.49DocScrutinizer05just ask
16:53.27golinuxMiyoLinux: iirc, a locked screen couldn't be unlocked
16:53.46MiyoLinuxI recall that there were some type of problems with KDE on Devuan in the past (can't remember the details). Are there any plans for Devuan to include KDE Plasma in the future?
16:54.11DocScrutinizer05KDE has some dependencies to systemd
16:54.13golinuxAnswered on #debianfork just before you left\
16:54.21MiyoLinuxDOH!
16:54.36DocScrutinizer05not many though, it seems
16:54.44golinuxSearch the logs and DNG for more info
16:55.03MiyoLinuxOkay. Thank you. I appreciate the help. Hope you all have a nice day!
16:55.17golinuxYou too
16:56.03*** part/#devuan MiyoLinux (6c5198c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.81.152.198)
16:56.04golinuxmsiism: Did you get it?
16:56.12KatolaZMiyoLinux: parazyd has got it running with elogind
16:56.18KatolaZgone
16:56.25golinux<iyo is already gpone
16:56.57golinuxdoes keyboard salad
16:57.38msiismgolinux: not yet. seems the delivery takes a while today. maybe something's wrong with the mal server again
16:58.31parazydKatolaZ: was it elogind?
16:58.40parazydi just installed it relatively normally in ascii
16:58.44KatolaZoh
16:58.51KatolaZI though you had used elogind
16:59.05parazydno. though maybe the lockscreen would work with it :D
16:59.11KatolaZoh ok
16:59.16KatolaZI remembered something
16:59.17KatolaZ:)
16:59.26parazydhttps://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/kde-devuan.webm
16:59.30*** join/#devuan seagoon (ae8dcbe6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.141.203.230)
16:59.46parazydthis is vanilla ascii
17:00.50golinuxMy eyes are bleeding
17:02.14golinuxCan't read anything wither - font too small
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17:08.12*** join/#devuan Capricornus (~HexChat@94.163.89.89)
17:09.06Capricornusare there any news about the forum? it's down since at least five hours now
17:09.26specingKeep calm and install systemd
17:09.47msiismCapricornus: well, not yet, afaik.
17:10.55Capricornusmsiism is the reason of the downtime known at least? maintenance?
17:11.07*** join/#devuan JotaMG (~chatozill@5.109.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt)
17:11.10golinuxThe host is down
17:11.32golinuxCheap VPS
17:11.50golinuxCan't even get to their main website
17:12.47*** join/#devuan Jjp137 (~Jjp137@cpe-75-83-16-81.socal.res.rr.com)
17:13.07Capricornus:/ understood, putting an advice on the italian forum to inform people
17:13.14Capricornusthanks for the info golinux :)
17:14.12golinuxOK Thanks!
17:14.41golinuxYou are getting more users there.  Good to see you growing
17:16.16Capricornus:) mute users, but yeah, fingers crossed
17:17.28jaromilCapricornus: the whole hosting provider is down so we presume it will come up sometimes soon
17:18.05Capricornusthanks jaromil
17:18.10Capricornuslet's hope it
17:20.41dethaor maybe their business model eventually collapsed...... That seems to be the usual reaction whenever they have an extended outage
17:22.08dethaBut apparently there was a planned power outage(maintenance) in the area that DC is in
17:35.34DocScrutinizer05detha: you'd hope they announce that stuff somewhere
17:36.07*** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@79.red-88-21-58.staticip.rima-tde.net)
17:36.09DocScrutinizer05Trying "100.187.137.64.in-addr.arpa"
17:36.11DocScrutinizer05Host 100.187.137.64.in-addr.arpa not found: 2(SERVFAIL)
17:36.14aitorhi again
17:36.50*** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101)
17:37.11DocScrutinizer05reminds me to do rsync full offsite backups of all my servers more frequently
17:38.28DocScrutinizer05a duply ftp tape archive backup on same hoster might not be sufficient
17:39.46dethatwo hosts, on different continents ;)
17:43.18DocScrutinizer05parazyd: ((vanuilla ascii)) htop is your friend ;-)
17:44.28DocScrutinizer05no surprise lockscreen cocks up without the systemd shite like systemd*pam* whatever behind it
17:45.17Capricornushttp://devuanitalia.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7#p7 <<<--- Dev1Galaxy forum down announcement
17:45.41DocScrutinizer05thanks!
17:46.02aitorlinux-heads failed giving the following error:
17:46.06CapricornusI just hope they are not running some systemd based distro, now being down for some bug :/ that would be hilarious
17:46.14CapricornusDocScrutinizer05 yw!
17:46.25aitor<PROTECTED>
17:47.05aitorthere are some files like "libcpupower1.install", "libcpupower-dev.install", "libusbip-dev.install"... in the debian branch
17:47.15aitorthese packages are included in the debian/control file, but they are not generated, as you can see here:
17:47.46aitorhttp://gnuinos.org/linux-libre-4.9.25/
17:48.13aitorbecause they are only build-tools: those packages are installed only in the build-area, so there is no option like:
17:48.22aitorinstall-libcpupower1: DH_OPTIONS = -p$(PACKAGE_NAME)
17:48.29aitorin the debian/rules.gen
17:48.37aitorany hints, parazyd?
17:48.46aitori'm using your config file
17:49.11aitorlibcpupower1 worked in the case of linux-libre-4.9.25
17:49.23aitori have libpci-dev installed in the system
17:50.09parazydi'm not sure what's the problem here
17:51.41aitorin some case i solved it removing libcpupower1, but i don't consider it a good idea
17:52.34aitorif you download http://gnuinos.org/linux-libre-4.9.25/linux_4.9.25-1.debian.tar.xz
17:53.14aitoryou can find the Makefiles of these build-tools in rules.d/tools
17:54.03parazydaitor: what do you want to do? i'm not understanding this
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17:55.15aitori want to build installers for ascii with your kernel, probably i'll use it in gnuinos
17:55.56parazydyou'll run in trouble
17:55.56parazydyou have to manage PaX flags for memory-hungry binaries
17:55.56parazydwhich is a tedious task
17:57.01aitorparazyd: i'll write in debian-kernel@lists.debian.org
17:57.12*** part/#devuan catprints (~person2@172.58.86.144)
17:57.42aitorrun in trouble? i did it several times
17:58.06parazydyeah, compiling :D
17:58.12parazydrunning it could be even more difficult
17:59.19aitori just have a 32 Core
18:01.54*** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu)
18:06.51aitornah :)
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19:25.18georg-gast-1Hi, there. I'm running devuan ascii, having ascii, ascii-security, and ascii-updates in my sources.list but not getting any updates for weeks, What am I doing wrong?
19:25.36parazydascii is now merging with debian stretch
19:25.51georg-gast-1yes
19:26.05parazydit was frozen, so i guess you'll only be recieving security updates when they happen
19:26.20parazydnothing to worry about. operations resume as normal
19:26.53georg-gast-1many debian stretch packages are newer than those in devuan ascii
19:27.19KatolaZgeorg-gast-1: like?
19:27.30georg-gast-1second ...
19:30.31georg-gast-1firefox-esr: ascii=45.9.0esr-1 stretch-security=52.2.0esr-1~deb9u1
19:31.39parazydhmm indeed
19:31.45parazydmy amprolla did it properly
19:31.47parazydfirefox-esr/testing-security 52.2.0esr-1~deb9u1 amd64
19:33.03parazydah
19:33.21georg-gast-1yes?
19:33.38parazydCenturion_Dan mentioned we aren't merging -security (and possibly others) because of some limitations
19:34.05parazydit should be resolved with deployment of the new amprolla version
19:34.15georg-gast-1oops, that's kinda bad ...
19:34.26georg-gast-1when will the new amprolla come?
19:34.32DocScrutinizer05isn't security supposed to get pulled straight from debian?
19:34.57parazydit is, but i suppose the old codebase didn't know how to do it or something
19:35.12parazydi'm really not sure what's the exact reason
19:35.14georg-gast-1won't this pull in systemd?
19:35.31parazydgeorg-gast-1: what would pull systemd?
19:35.37DocScrutinizer05I mean, after all it's not installing new packkages, only updates. So worts case an update on a devuan-forked package could fer in the way
19:35.53georg-gast-1fetching security directly from debian?
19:36.08parazydgeorg-gast-1: no, systemd-dependent packages are not merged
19:36.57parazydDocScrutinizer05: if you try http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged you'll see that the firefox version is indeed the one from stretch-security
19:37.21DocScrutinizer05when a devuanized package rceives a security update, wouldn't that just fail due tio unmet dependencies to systemd?
19:37.25parazydi'm not sure what's going on in production
19:37.32georg-gast-1I mean including security directly from debian in my sources.list or did I get something wrong?
19:37.56parazyd-security updates usually don't receive new dependencies
19:38.18DocScrutinizer05parazyd: **for devuanitzed package**
19:38.39parazyddevuan hasn't forked any -security packages so far afaik
19:38.44DocScrutinizer05there are no *new* dependencies, but old ones we kicked out in devuan
19:39.00georg-gast-1I'll try ...
19:39.08parazydDocScrutinizer05: if we kicked them, they wouldn't even be in the main repo
19:39.14DocScrutinizer05maybe I don't understand how security updates work
19:39.21parazydgeorg-gast-1: if you try my repo, make sure to add the pubkey
19:39.25parazydit's here: http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged
19:39.33parazydcurl urltopubkey | apt-key add -
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19:40.35DocScrutinizer05I thought the package manager checks all repos you got configured and uses the package from the highest prio repo (which is security)
19:40.41parazydreminds me, i should log banned packages
19:40.42*** join/#devuan grp (~hermit@unaffiliated/grpala)
19:40.49parazydright now i'm only logging obsolete packages
19:41.00parazydhttp://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/
19:41.34DocScrutinizer05wgeb there are several repos with same prio, it uses the newest package
19:41.39DocScrutinizer05when*
19:42.15DocScrutinizer05maybe I'm totally mistaken
19:42.34parazydno repo has the same priority
19:42.46parazydin devuan
19:43.03parazydor are you talking about apt's priority?
19:43.56DocScrutinizer05I'm talking about package manager, so yes apt
19:45.04parazydah, i wouldn't know in that case
19:45.07DocScrutinizer05I thought that concept was the whole point of having a security / updates repo
19:45.22parazydyeah probably
19:48.20parazydit seems only systemd and systemd-sysv are banned
19:48.26parazydno packages explicitly depending on these
19:49.46parazydlet's wait for a full merge to finish
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19:51.07DocScrutinizer05I'm a total packaging/repo noob so I'd actually like somebody to explain to me what's the purpose and supposed way of usage of a security repo
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19:52.08parazydin debian package versions are usually frozen on a stable release
19:52.16parazydmeanin they won't receive any updates.
19:52.39parazydonly if you use the security repos you will get security updates which are mostly the same package versions, patched to fix the bug
19:52.43DocScrutinizer05on suse prolly same, so they got an "updates" repo
19:52.58parazydso yeah
19:53.00parazydhttp://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/bannedpkgs.txt
19:53.14parazydonly these two seem banned. no packages explicitly depending on them
19:55.47DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall that very topic been discussed weeks or months ago already, and the conclusion was along the line I sketched above. Security updates are getting pulled directly from debian and will cause dependency error if they are based on a package that got forked by devuan for de-poetterization. All other security patches should get into devuan very same moment they appear in debian's security repo
19:56.08parazydyes
19:56.21parazydwhich is why i just wrote a patch to log them so we can be aware if it happens
19:57.59DocScrutinizer05"getting pulled by user's package manager" is probably something I implied, don't know if correctly though
19:58.20parazydno, it actually won't exist in the repos
19:58.28parazydif it depends on either systemd or systemd-sysv
19:58.51DocScrutinizer05hm?
19:59.14parazyda package depending on systemd/systemd-sysv doesn't get into packages.devuan.org/merged
19:59.34parazydso they would never even exist, not pulled in by apt
19:59.39DocScrutinizer05no, but its forked devuan version sure as hell will, eventually
20:00.06parazydyes, and those are here: http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/oldpkgs.txt
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20:00.20DocScrutinizer05which is all we discuss here, plus the packages that do not depend on systemd and thus get pulled from debian anyway, thanks amprolla
20:00.34georg-gast-1Thanks for the help, I got my firefox updates now without trouble.
20:00.41parazydgeorg-gast-1: using my repo?
20:00.54parazydglad to hear it works out :) one step towards production deployment hehe
20:01.04parazydi'm merging all ascii repos
20:01.11parazydincluding -security, -updates...
20:01.53georg-gast-1parazyd: no, from http://security.debian.org/ maybe I try your repo later ...
20:01.58parazydah ok
20:02.15parazydthat's essentially the same repo because we haven't forked any of those packages so far
20:02.33parazydgeorg-gast-1: did you use "stretch" as the repo name?
20:02.39DocScrutinizer05does there exist a devuan security repo?
20:02.41georg-gast-1yes, that what I understood now.
20:02.45parazydif not please do, because if you use "testing" it's something else
20:03.10parazydDocScrutinizer05: ascii-security and jessie-security are devuan's
20:03.16parazydthey get merged with security.debian.org
20:03.17DocScrutinizer05aah ok
20:03.34parazydthe point is, there aren't any of OUR packages there so the merge is basically just a copy of security.debian.or
20:03.44DocScrutinizer05I seem to refer to a discussion held at a time where those didn't exist yet
20:03.53*** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.101.32)
20:03.54parazydmaybe they don't
20:04.03parazydi'm talking about my own instance
20:04.13parazydbut the same logic applies to current production
20:07.17Oldmoss<PROTECTED>
20:07.22*** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-37-33.vpn.ipredator.se)
20:08.31msiismreading about the BSD's base system approach, i was just thinking: how come that in Debian and hence in Devuan, the /opt hierarchy is not being used as the standard installation target for add-on software, such as web browsers, media players, desktop enviroenments etc.?
20:09.20parazydin bsd you usually have ports no? and when you install a binary package it ends up in /opt because it's not a part of the planned base system
20:09.39msiismi think so
20:09.44parazydin linux, i think virtualbox and firefox do this if you don't install them through a package manager
20:10.14msiismparazyd: ok, i know cdrtools installs to /opt if you build it from source.
20:10.44parazydyeah some packages do
20:10.58parazydbut whatever you install outside of the package manager does end up in opt
20:11.06msiismi see
20:11.10parazyd(the big software, let's say)
20:11.37msiismso basically, everything in the package repos is "base system" in Devuan
20:11.52parazydin /opt you don't have a normal hierarchy, rather a specific directory with the name of the software you installed
20:11.59parazydnormal libraries and small software end up in /usr/local
20:12.06parazydmsiism: in devuan, and any other distro
20:12.21msiismbut beneath that there's a subhierarchy, defined in the FHS
20:12.28parazydmsiism: in /opt?
20:12.28msiismi mean /opt
20:12.41parazydhmm might be, but i thought it wasn't
20:13.05parazydagain, i believe it depends on the software
20:14.00DocScrutinizer05msiism: un my book /opt is the only truly obsolete dir specified in http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html
20:14.42parazyd`man hier` says:       /opt   This directory should contain add-on packages that contain static files.
20:15.12DocScrutinizer05legacy from times where you needed an own storage volume for that
20:15.20parazydso is /srv
20:15.23parazydbut that's arguable imho
20:15.41DocScrutinizer05/srv for sure
20:16.06DocScrutinizer05I can't see relevance of /opt nowadays
20:16.16msiismDocScrutinizer05: why not?
20:16.25parazydpersonally it's the only place i would extract a firefox tarball with binaries
20:16.33parazydfor an example
20:16.40DocScrutinizer05why not install to /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin ?
20:17.10parazydbecause i have the whole structure in /opt/firefox and i don't have to look for it when i want to delete it
20:17.26parazydand that's what opt is used for
20:17.39msiismDocScrutinizer05: because that's less clear
20:17.47DocScrutinizer05you're aware that in times of package managers you usually are not supposed to delete packages this way?
20:18.15msiismparazyd: right. also, if software built from source does not rpovide a decent unistall target, it's much better to have that in /opt
20:18.17parazydi said: extract a firefox tarball with binaries, not installing firefox through apt
20:18.37DocScrutinizer05doinf tarball extract you're free to install that stuff to /opt of course
20:18.56parazydyes and i'd rather do that than pollute my /usr/local
20:19.14DocScrutinizer05the original question however was why package manager doesn't install it to /opt iirc
20:19.33msiismright
20:19.41parazydbecause the package manager holds the logic of the installed files, and files installed through the package manager are part of the system
20:19.51msiismok
20:19.56parazydyou fill /opt yourself
20:20.06DocScrutinizer05that seems like the "accepted answer" :-)
20:27.16msiismwhat exactly does it mean that "The torrent contains all files for a given release" when i download Devuan using the release torrent? does that mean: release image, README, checksum file and signature?
20:27.38parazydall the hierarcy found at https://files.devuan.org
20:27.53parazydthen in your torrent client you can choose what you want if you don't want everything
20:27.55msiismi see
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20:31.17msiismparazyd: and i'll be seeing the whole tree/dir structure before i download?
20:31.54parazydsure. usually in a graphical torrent client you'll see a window offering you to choose files when you load the torrent
20:34.04DocScrutinizer05msiism: if you're only interested in a few files and have no problems with downloading them via wget or in your browser, you can pick them from the mirrors as well. Seems they all have plenty of unused bandwidth
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20:34.28parazydDocScrutinizer05: in theory a torrent should be faster than our mirror
20:34.50DocScrutinizer05in practize however it's the other way around, at least for me :-)
20:35.20parazydare you even allowed to torrent in your country? :p
20:35.42DocScrutinizer05sure
20:35.42msiismparazyd: so, what's reasonable torrent client in the repos?
20:35.42DocScrutinizer05what's wrong with torrent?
20:35.57parazydmsiism: i guess deluge or transmission
20:36.02DocScrutinizer05except the overhead of protocol
20:36.20msiismparazyd: ok, i'll have a look at these
20:36.26parazydDocScrutinizer05: in germany it's banned usually. in france torrenting==illegal downloading of files
20:36.36parazydby a definition in the law
20:36.38DocScrutinizer05huh? nope
20:36.57msiismparazyd: what do you mean by "it's banned" in germany?
20:36.59parazydmost homes i went to in germany say: please don't torrent in my house
20:37.02DocScrutinizer05in Germany actually only sharing copyrighted files is outlawed
20:37.05specingHere I can torrent stuff for personal use
20:37.07parazydpeople usually pay fines
20:37.21specingI haven't heard of any downloader ever being fined
20:37.29DocScrutinizer05yes, for uploading copyrighted files
20:38.30specingbut every torrenter is also sharing at the same time
20:38.32DocScrutinizer05Gema has a bazillion lawyers with specialized programs to track down your IP when you provide the Shakeera mp3 that you're just downloading
20:39.16DocScrutinizer05specing: exactly
20:39.21specinglol Gema the video is not available in your country
20:40.06specingI don't torrent much though
20:40.16specingits all crap anyway
20:40.45parazydtorrents all his music and videos
20:41.13DocScrutinizer05torrent protocol gets technically blocked and denied in contract by a few ISPs
20:41.21specingfor music you can record internet radios
20:42.02msiismwell, Devuan officially recommends downloading releases via torrent.
20:42.09specingits usually even better as they have a DJ that mixes the music together so its C^1
20:42.15DocScrutinizer05actually they forbid all P2P services, not just torrent
20:42.32specingDocScrutinizer05: who?
20:42.39DocScrutinizer05some ISPs
20:42.46DocScrutinizer05particularly wireless
20:43.17specingin Germany??
20:43.18msiismif that can cause problems, it probably should be only an option, not a recommendation.
20:44.47DocScrutinizer05specing: yup, last time I checked (which is a few years back)
20:45.02specingwell what can I say
20:46.02DocScrutinizer05no sane person would do P2P via their traffic-capped LTE account anyway
20:46.28specingI would
20:46.37specingwhen the cap is like 50GB...
20:46.37DocScrutinizer05O2 even forbid SIP. Dunno if they still do
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20:46.54specing15 eur for 50GB
20:46.55DocScrutinizer05they don't block it anyway
20:47.08specingits actually very competitive to FTTH if you don't consume
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20:47.15specing10 eur for 20GB
20:47.24DocScrutinizer05wow, good deal
20:47.28specingI'm thinking about just going wireless
20:47.38specingwired is like 25 eur but uncapped
20:47.42specingFTTH
20:47.54DocScrutinizer05I just went BK with 400Mb downlink 25 up
20:48.14specing25 up lol
20:48.22specingSAD!
20:48.26DocScrutinizer05hm?
20:48.50DocScrutinizer05better than any DSL you could get
20:49.04specingI'd like an ISP to sell me 25 down 400 up for the price of 400 down 25 up :D
20:49.16DocScrutinizer05except those commercial grade ones where you can switch down and up bandwidth
20:49.32DocScrutinizer05specing: hehe me too
20:49.35specingDocScrutinizer05: do you have a cap?
20:49.39DocScrutinizer05nope
20:49.50specingif not, just download shit continuously out of principle
20:50.00specingat 40 MB/s you are bound to prove a point
20:50.17DocScrutinizer05400
20:50.21DocScrutinizer05err
20:50.23DocScrutinizer05nm
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20:53.17DocScrutinizer05http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6434337613
20:53.49specingnot iperf? sad
20:54.32DocScrutinizer05damn DS-lite drives me nuts
20:55.17DocScrutinizer05anyway, that's getting OT
20:56.47greenjeansmsiism: Have used Transmission a fair bit, works great so I never bothered to try another client
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20:58.32msiismgreenjeans: ok. i've decided not to try these things out.
20:59.48DocScrutinizer05msiism: indeed a mere wget is way simpler to use
21:00.59DocScrutinizer05wget http://neo900.files.dev-1.org/<whatever-you-want>, or just "save link as..." in your browser
21:03.03msiismDocScrutinizer05: i know. i just needed to know about the torrent stuff for documentation purposes (https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/devuan_doc:getting_devuan#download)
21:03.19DocScrutinizer05aah
21:03.31DocScrutinizer05has a very strange deja-vu
21:04.16msiismyes, i've asked about this two weeks ago or so already
21:04.33msiismbut still i wasn't really sure about it
21:04.43DocScrutinizer05and I think the whole discussion went pretty much verbatim the same
21:05.11msiismwell, i can't really remember.
21:07.39DocScrutinizer05https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-06-24/?msg=87725183&page=3
21:07.57JotaMGso,  devuan repos for ascii are currently not up to date, right?
21:09.37JotaMGbecause I just use  http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged  and got new updates
21:09.39JotaMGbefore there was none
21:10.11parazydJotaMG: is it the -security and -updates repos?
21:10.15JotaMGso i conclude there is something wrong with the official repos???
21:10.23msiismDocScrutinizer05: right. the internet, as they say, forgets nothing.
21:10.34DocScrutinizer05well, devuan ascii isn't officially released yet, to start with. Means it's supposed to be "broken" with respect to devuan's rules
21:10.56JotaMGthe complete set  :-)
21:10.57JotaMGdeb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii main contrib non-free
21:10.59JotaMGdeb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii-updates main contrib non-free
21:11.00JotaMGdeb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii-security main contrib non-free
21:11.02JotaMGdeb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii-backports main contrib non-free
21:11.06parazydack
21:11.19parazydin production i don't think devuan is merging the last three properly
21:11.34parazydso once my version is deployed things should resolve
21:11.49JotaMGhope so!
21:11.56parazyd*Wizzup's and mine
21:12.01KatolaZJotaMG: as DocScrutinizer05 said, ascii has not been released
21:12.23JotaMGyes I'm not complaining :-)
21:12.33KatolaZ:)
21:12.45parazydJotaMG: as for my repo, do continue to use it, but here and there there might be some brokenness
21:12.54parazydsince i'm developing amprolla using that repo
21:13.21parazydand there's no https or tor
21:14.01JotaMGok, no problem
21:14.03JotaMGwhen you think production will be stable ??
21:14.19parazydwhen Centurion_Dan decides to deploy this version
21:14.53DocScrutinizer05even then, de-poetterization pending
21:15.15JotaMGwhat is de-poetterization ??
21:15.30DocScrutinizer05weeding out the systemd dependencies
21:15.49JotaMGok
21:16.10DocScrutinizer05IOW backports is missing stuff and systemd may and prolly will slip in via ascii
21:16.18parazydi did a merge, there are no packages explicitly depending on systemd/systemd-sysv
21:16.27DocScrutinizer05wow
21:16.44JotaMGand are you talking about weeks or months waiting ?
21:16.57parazydJotaMG: ?
21:17.04DocScrutinizer05I'm not a dev of any flavor, of devuan. So ...
21:17.37msiismJotaMG: de-poetterization it's a cynicism directed against the main dev of systemd. (just so you know, in case you didn't)
21:18.00JotaMGwhen do you estimate production repos will be ok? in weeks or months ?
21:18.16parazydonly Centurion_Dan can tell you that for now
21:18.26parazydthey will be "ok" as soon as it's deployed
21:18.52JotaMGmsiism: did not know but thanks
21:20.01JotaMGso for the next weeks i will have to be cautious with the updates, right?
21:21.01DocScrutinizer05umm, updates are prolly most safe part in ascii. When you had no systemd imported already, updates won't do either
21:21.24parazyddoing another merge now to see what's the status of libsystemd0
21:21.30DocScrutinizer05unless a package switches to the dark side
21:21.48JotaMGok
21:24.40*** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@ip-78-45-133-27.net.upcbroadband.cz)
21:24.42JotaMGone of these days I plan to move a Armbian install on a bananapi to devuan
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21:25.39DocScrutinizer05then parazyd is the man to talk to :-)
21:25.58parazydi still have to build images for most of the bananapis
21:26.18parazydbut if you have a board to test it on, please let me know if you're willing to try out a few images
21:26.21parazydi'm also in #devuan-arm
21:27.01JotaMGok I can burn to a sd and try
21:27.14JotaMGwhat kernel are you using?
21:27.26parazydusually the latest mainline available
21:27.39parazydmeaning: no video, just serial/ssh access
21:27.41JotaMGok that's good
21:29.21JotaMGI can test on a Banana Pi M2 Ultra (Allwinner R40) or a orangepi (H3)
21:30.46DocScrutinizer05idly wonders how many fruits got already pi'ed
21:33.13DocScrutinizer05time for tomato pasty instead fruit pie ;-D
21:33.39fsmithred_I think you mean pastry
21:33.48fsmithred_pasties are something else
21:34.29DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/06/plasma-desktopqY8317.png
21:34.37golinuxWrong channel?
21:34.42greenjeanslol fsr
21:34.43DocScrutinizer05yep, sorry
21:35.17fsmithred_I just looked it up, and I'm wrong
21:35.46fsmithred_and..
21:35.46golinuxdoesn't know what fsr is talking about
21:35.59fsmithred_I just uploaded the first refracta-ascii-nox
21:35.59golinuxbut it's off topic
21:40.08fsmithred_https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/refracta9_nox_i386_pre-alpha-20170706_1927.iso/download
21:40.33fsmithred_oops
21:40.38fsmithred_https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/refracta9_nox_i386_pre-alpha-20170706_1927.iso
21:40.56fsmithred_that's better. You don't need the /download on the end.
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21:45.31parazydDocScrutinizer05: http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/libsystemd0.txt
21:48.04KatolaZparazyd: most of those have already been de-systemd-ised in jessie
21:48.11KatolaZthey are in jessie-proposed
21:48.16KatolaZand in jessie-proposed-updates
21:48.23parazydyeah i guess
21:48.27parazydbut a lot are -security
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21:48.38parazydand with those i'm sure we're lagging behind
21:48.42KatolaZyep
21:48.56parazydnote: i still need help with amprolla being aware which suite these packages are in
21:50.12KatolaZmmmmhhhh
21:50.26KatolaZit must know that, right?
21:50.32parazydnot really, no
21:50.48parazydthe scoping doesn't allow me to share the suite name between modules
21:51.23parazyda really ugly solution would be to pass the name between all of the functions... but that's the very last thing i'd consider tbh
21:52.51parazyd(python's globals are global maximally in the module they're declared in)
21:54.52DocScrutinizer05I usually have a parameter "globals" (usually a struct) that I pass down via all calls to all modules
21:55.58DocScrutinizer05comes in handy for other global flags and values too
21:56.18parazydoh
21:56.30parazydthat just might be the right way to do it
21:57.22DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure. Always feeling a little bit dirty doing it ;-)
21:57.43*** part/#devuan msiism (~msi@dslb-188-103-134-174.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
21:57.48DocScrutinizer05but it has proven to be handy at least for me
21:58.15DocScrutinizer05plus it keeps patameter lists short
21:58.23DocScrutinizer05parameter*
22:00.01parazydDocScrutinizer05: how exactly do you pass it?
22:02.25DocScrutinizer05depends on language I'm using
22:02.38parazydin python
22:02.50DocScrutinizer05I'm not very good at python
22:03.09parazydi'm guessing i could use ctypes and pointers
22:03.18Centurion_Dano/
22:03.19parazydthis could make the code ugly...
22:03.23DocScrutinizer05hi Centurion_Dan
22:03.34parazydhola
22:03.50Centurion_DanI have a phone call to make, but after that I can give an hour or so...
22:03.51KatolaZparazyd: you can pass an object
22:03.58DocScrutinizer05:nod:
22:04.02DocScrutinizer05sounds good
22:04.02parazydKatolaZ: to every function call?
22:04.04KatolaZpassing is done by ref in python
22:04.16Centurion_Danmaybe 30 min call...
22:04.21KatolaZwell, you don't need this info in every function call
22:04.22parazydi could pass any variable that way, that's what i'm trying to avoid
22:04.50parazydKatolaZ: i do need it in every nesting call during the merge, to move it through the scope where i actually log the packages
22:05.14parazydsome global pointer would be indeed useful
22:05.26*** join/#devuan tarbz2 (~Thunderbi@186.23.155.100)
22:05.37DocScrutinizer05a ref to an object is a global pointer auzu
22:05.47DocScrutinizer05aiui*
22:08.07KatolaZparazyd: create a module variable
22:08.07DocScrutinizer05so in the end an address
22:08.07KatolaZand assign it in the first function called in that module
22:08.22DocScrutinizer05pretty lightweight to push that onto stack prior to function call
22:08.27KatolaZit's dirty, but the alternative is passing references around
22:16.39DocScrutinizer05if you want 'clean', make an object consisting of suite and package name and pass that - aiui that would be a correctly formed data entity for the usecase
22:18.13DocScrutinizer05of you want 'lightweight', concat the two names into one string, with a delimiter in between
22:18.24parazydi think i'll go with a "global" module
22:19.29parazydoh hey it seems to work
22:19.29DocScrutinizer05at least that works :-)
22:19.45parazydlet's wait a minute or two for the merge to finish
22:20.18parazydthanks!
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22:27.01parazydheh it worked out :)
22:27.03parazydhttp://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/bannedpkgs.txt
22:27.07parazydhttp://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/libsystemd0.txt
22:27.10*** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.114.120)
22:27.12parazydhttp://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/oldpkgs.txt
22:28.13DocScrutinizer05:-)
22:28.57parazydok, now we have actual parseable stats
22:30.17DocScrutinizer05glad I could help a tiny bit
22:31.05DocScrutinizer05wasted my coding fu for almost a decade now
22:31.28DocScrutinizer05except for some cheesy tiny vash scripts
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22:33.33parazyd:)
22:33.57*** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82.69.63.196)
22:42.06*** join/#devuan VPNlovin (~tech@96-41-164-160.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
22:42.28VPNlovinHey.  Running a Beta2 server, need to upgrade the repos, all the ones I've tried from googling are fail.
22:43.11VPNlovindeb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main
22:43.11VPNlovindeb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main
22:43.11VPNlovindeb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main
22:43.22VPNlovinAre what do not work.
22:43.57parazydwhat do you mean they don't work?
22:44.22VPNlovinAh, nm..  I think I have a DNS issue.  DOH!
22:44.31VPNlovinfeels stupid
22:44.43parazydsomething your ISP is doing?
22:45.07VPNlovinNo, probably I forgot to update the DNS in the net config after the last router upgrade.
22:45.15VPNlovinHunting for it now.
22:45.30parazydi see
22:46.07VPNlovinpebcak.  Sorry fellas.  LOL
22:47.02parazydheh don't apologize :D
22:48.27VPNlovinHuh.... So, updated the DNS to my local dns, still not resolving any URLs.
22:48.49VPNlovinCan ping IPs though, no problem
22:50.08parazyddig @8.8.8.8 auto.mirror.devuan.org
22:50.59VPNlovinserver found
22:51.07VPNlovinso... that works.
22:51.19VPNlovinbut I can't ping domain.com
22:51.35*** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.39)
22:51.44VPNlovinAnd no other DNS issues on any other machines on the network.
22:52.25parazydso your dns server is malfunctioned
22:52.35VPNlovinNo, it's working everywhere else.
22:52.44parazydyou sure it's the same one?
22:52.55VPNlovinand even if I set the dns-nameservers to 8.8.8.8, it won't pull DNS.
22:53.00VPNlovin(only on this server)
22:53.03parazydhmm
22:53.13VPNlovinYeah, really odd.
22:53.27parazydyou're looking at /etc/resolv.conf?
22:54.24VPNlovinNo... That solved it.
22:54.40VPNlovinI was doing the /etc/network/interfaces dns-nameservers
22:54.46VPNlovinIs that deprecated?
22:55.05parazydnot sure
22:55.59VPNlovinnow I can ping google.com, but still can't apt-get update.
22:56.00VPNlovinLOL
22:56.16parazydhah
22:56.31VPNlovinOK, well... init 6, to see if that clears it up.
22:57.46VPNlovinNope.
22:57.52VPNlovinCan ping devuan.org
22:58.01VPNlovinbut can't ping mirror.devuan.org
22:58.24VPNlovinbut CAN ping auto.mirror.devuan.org
22:58.43parazydwell that's ok
22:59.22VPNlovinWait, I think I found it.... brb
22:59.41parazydgotta sleep
22:59.47parazydafk
23:00.13DocScrutinizer05VPNlovin: all resolvers I know have caching
23:00.30DocScrutinizer05changing DNS IP won't instantly propagate
23:00.56VPNlovin<PROTECTED>
23:00.56VPNlovinErr http://auto.mirror.devuan.org jessie-updates Release.gpg
23:01.16VPNlovinDocScrutinizer05: That's why I rebooted.
23:01.22*** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.232.190.dyn.user.ono.com)
23:02.39DocScrutinizer05try http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ in browser
23:02.42gnarfaceVPNlovin: you need the resolvconf package for dns-nameservers to be recognized in /etc/network/interfaces
23:02.48gnarfaceVPNlovin: otherwise use /etc/resolv.conf
23:03.06VPNlovingnarface: Solved that issue already.  But you are right!
23:03.07VPNlovin:)
23:03.20VPNlovinDocScrutinizer05: Loads in browser.
23:03.35VPNlovinand can ping on the server.
23:03.43gnarfacepastebin your sources.list?
23:03.56VPNlovindeb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main
23:03.57VPNlovindeb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main
23:03.57VPNlovindeb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main
23:04.04VPNlovinThat's it!
23:04.09DocScrutinizer05>>Err http://auto.mirror.devuan.org jessie-updates Release.gpg<< !
23:04.46VPNlovinYeah, is that a key issue, or?
23:05.08DocScrutinizer05possibly, I don't know apt. Anyway http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie-updates/Release.gpg works
23:05.38*** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it)
23:05.39VPNlovinoh wait... there's a bad proxy in the apt.conf....
23:05.41VPNlovinDUH.
23:05.49DocScrutinizer05lol
23:05.55VPNlovinBecause I initially set this up at a different location that required TOR proxy.
23:05.57VPNlovinMEH
23:06.03VPNlovinfeels stupid all over again.
23:06.14*** part/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.39)
23:06.23DocScrutinizer05welcome to the club :-)
23:06.29VPNlovin....and it's working.
23:06.30VPNlovinLOL
23:07.45VPNlovinAll this to solve a STUPID issue at my other location that I can't work around because of the local ISP being garbage.
23:08.07*** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.232.190.dyn.user.ono.com)
23:08.20*** join/#devuan DingoSaar_ (~hagen@pD9E085A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:08.38DocScrutinizer05wait, this been you with the ISP garbling http:/ ?
23:09.28VPNlovin?  Not sure what you mean.  My ISP at a different location hard throttles anything with any amount of traffic, so I can't apt-update or apt-upgrade.
23:09.43DocScrutinizer05then nevermind
23:09.45VPNlovinSo my work around is to TOR proxy all my apt.
23:09.51VPNlovin(at that location).
23:10.02VPNlovinThis server is now at a DIFF location that has no TOR proxy, or need.
23:10.24DocScrutinizer05there's apt tor "plugin" afaik
23:10.37*** join/#devuan mystified (~myst@110-174-9-2.static.tpgi.com.au)
23:11.32VPNlovinMan, that system boots so fast!
23:11.40VPNlovinAlmost like I don't need systemd.  LOL
23:11.49DocScrutinizer05>>install apt-transport-tor<<  >>deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie          main ...<<
23:12.20golinuxReality check:  You DON'T need systemd
23:12.32VPNlovinOoooohhhh  I'll be doing that at the other location.  Thanks DOc!
23:12.40VPNlovingolinux: YES I KNOW.  LOL
23:12.55DocScrutinizer05yw
23:13.27DocScrutinizer05see https://devuan.org/
23:13.38DocScrutinizer05quote from there
23:13.40gnarfacewasn't someone saying we're faster than systemd in current debian?
23:13.47DocScrutinizer05yes
23:14.08DocScrutinizer05no surprise really
23:14.21gnarfaceyes, you're right it shouldn't be a surprise that they have no restraint or integrity
23:14.31golinuxReading the FDN forum has been rather amusing lately . . .
23:14.41DocScrutinizer05Mr Knopper elaborated about how massive parallelism in init can slow down stuff or even bring it to a grinding halt
23:15.17VPNlovinThe proof is in the pudding.  Debian 8 puked on a ton of stuff in my datacenters.
23:15.37VPNlovinDeb 7 ran perfectly.  So... unless it was something BESIDES systemd....  I'M OUT.
23:15.42*** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au)
23:15.56VPNlovinWhich is why I'm here, and haven't had any problems since (other than crappy ISPs, idiot users, the usual).
23:16.23DocScrutinizer05in a YT vid he explained how parallelism results in lots of searches on storage medium (I like to add: "and to buffer flushes")
23:17.01DocScrutinizer05so for knoppix that resulted in systemd init finally timing out and everything going down the sewer
23:17.02VPNlovinHave you guys been following the guy who has been documenting all the systemd issues on voat.co?
23:17.15VPNlovinHe's awesome.  He's found some REALLY terrible stuff.
23:17.18DocScrutinizer05on optical drives
23:17.38gnarfaceit shouldn't be surprised that systemd's development direction belies what they initially claimed to be their priorities either
23:17.50gnarfaces/surprised/a surprise/
23:27.24DocScrutinizer05boot speed is overrated anyway
23:27.35VPNlovinYeah, I'm zero surprised.  I saw Poettering's name and knew it was a hard pass.
23:27.47VPNlovinThen I did more research, and I was like, NOOOOPE
23:30.34DocScrutinizer05[2017-07-04 Tue 02:15:15] <golinux> Here's a list of 'not a bug' issues: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed+label%3Anot-a-bug
23:30.38DocScrutinizer05have fun! :-P
23:30.47gnarfacehah
23:32.13VPNlovinTHAT IS GOLD.
23:32.14VPNlovinlol
23:33.20VPNlovinThanks for all my pebcak help.  <3
23:33.24VPNlovinbbl
23:50.30*** join/#devuan fsda6342 (~User@host-69-145-45-32.shr-wy.client.bresnan.net)
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23:57.50*** join/#devuan Jjp137 (~Jjp137@cpe-75-83-16-81.socal.res.rr.com)

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