00:07.23 | Xenguy | Stands the test of time |
00:07.29 | Xenguy | ducks... |
00:11.06 | vvande | question about Devuan repositories: Can Firefox be distributed with different defaults compiled in? |
00:12.26 | vvande | I'm asking because I just did a Devuan install and discovered that FF53 no longer has ALSA support. So ... no sound for people who don't use Pulse Audio. |
00:12.44 | vvande | I had to move to Chromium - which wasn't what I'd really wanted. |
00:13.51 | Xenguy | I wonder if that is true for FF-esr also? |
00:14.24 | vvande | it is |
00:15.24 | fsmithred | 52.2.0esr-1~deb8u1 in jessie still works with alsa |
00:19.35 | *** join/#devuan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
00:19.35 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
00:19.41 | vvande | just alsa |
00:19.47 | fsmithred | same here |
00:19.51 | vvande | PA is not installed. |
00:20.09 | vvande | hmm - could it be that I've got the 32bit install? |
00:20.31 | fsmithred | shouldn't be, but I don't know. |
00:21.13 | vvande | lots of info in this thread: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345661 |
00:21.34 | fsmithred | lots of info in an earlier discussion here, too. |
00:21.40 | vvande | ok |
00:22.13 | fsmithred | https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/ |
00:22.28 | vvande | thanks |
00:23.00 | vvande | oh - lol |
00:23.15 | fsmithred | go up a couple hours |
00:26.23 | vvande | yeah, got it thanks :) |
00:26.37 | fsmithred | cool. good luck. |
00:27.31 | golinux | vvande: Search for apulse here and on dng. Also on the forum iirc. |
00:28.10 | golinux | Gets FF to work without PA |
00:28.22 | fsmithred | does 52 require PA? |
00:28.38 | fsmithred | I just realized that I have apulse installed from long ago |
00:29.45 | vvande | apparently ALSA has been officially dropped by FF |
00:30.21 | golinux | Not till 57 iirc |
00:30.38 | vvande | then what is that buzilla thread about? |
00:30.43 | vvande | scratches head |
00:30.58 | golinux | PA and systemd - the ebola of software. |
00:31.09 | *** join/#devuan nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
00:33.20 | vvande | ha |
00:33.30 | fsmithred | this thread says 52. Looks like there may be a fixed package in MX repo: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=639579#p639579 |
00:35.41 | *** join/#devuan Spagno (~Spagno@host227-35-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
00:36.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels nausea |
00:37.43 | gnarface | firefox-esr 52.2.0esr-1 in ceres currently does not require pulseaudio |
00:37.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a mystery yet to be resoved how a single person can force so much poor quality software into a living healthy FOSS ecosystem like linux despite everybody hates that stuff |
00:38.20 | gnarface | no mystery |
00:38.24 | gnarface | RedHat |
00:38.37 | vvande | lotta hats these days |
00:38.48 | vvande | like asshats, for example |
00:40.04 | vvande | Anyway, that apulse looks like just the ticket. I'm going to try that. This new box is still so new that I don't mind breaking it or fooling with it for a while. |
00:40.22 | vvande | Thanks for the link fsmithred. |
01:07.45 | *** join/#devuan debdog (~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d) |
15:00.23 | *** join/#devuan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
15:00.23 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
15:01.21 | Wasp | http://textuploader.com/dkjue |
15:01.52 | Wasp | here is my output from gcc when running on a hello world program with #include <mbus/mbus.h> |
15:02.03 | Wasp | I'll try |
15:02.14 | parazyd | you must be using an older version |
15:02.29 | parazyd | i just compiled the latest git you linked me and there are no mentions of u_char |
15:02.42 | Wasp | $ dpkg -l | grep -i libmbus |
15:02.42 | Wasp | ii libmbus-dev 0.8.0 amd64 FreeSCADA M-Bus Library Development files. |
15:02.45 | Wasp | ii libmbus1 0.8.0 amd64 FreeSCADA M-Bus Library. |
15:02.56 | Wasp | okay I will to start over |
15:03.46 | Wasp | with -D_GNU_SOURCE it works out :o |
15:04.27 | Wasp | but isn't it the same as -I/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ ? |
15:05.05 | parazyd | no, not at all |
15:05.29 | parazyd | -I just tells the compiler where to additionally grab headers aside from the default locations |
15:05.44 | parazyd | defining _GNU_SOURCE actually uses the stuff guarded by #ifdefs in the code |
15:06.29 | parazyd | on bsd you also have a _BSD_SOURCE macro that will enable u_char too |
15:06.36 | parazyd | but these things should be avoided in general |
15:07.47 | parazyd | just use unsigned char |
15:07.57 | *** join/#devuan blitzed (~blitzed@cpe-75-80-44-59.san.res.rr.com) |
15:08.58 | Wasp | ya, read that already but the libmbus isn't mine. ;) |
15:09.07 | KatolaZ | Wasp: also, if you are compiling with std=c11, you should avoid GNU_SOURCE altogether |
15:09.35 | Wasp | haha |
15:09.36 | Wasp | okay |
15:09.46 | Wasp | in short: just avoid u_char ;) |
15:11.42 | Wasp | okay thank you :) |
15:12.29 | Wasp | by the way: how to I get `apt-get source vim` working on devuan? |
15:13.07 | parazyd | wait for amprolla3 to be deployed |
15:13.57 | KatolaZ | Wasp: ? |
15:14.04 | *** join/#devuan DingoSaar (~hagen@pD9E092F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
15:14.22 | KatolaZ | you must add the deb-src |
15:14.26 | KatolaZ | and give the command |
15:14.58 | KatolaZ | Wasp: there is nothing special to do |
15:15.08 | Wasp | KatolaZ: yeah guessed this but couldn't find the correct deb-src line. Doesn't seem to be part of the default devuan environment |
15:15.24 | KatolaZ | it's exactly the same of the deb line |
15:15.30 | KatolaZ | only, it starts with deb-src |
15:15.32 | KatolaZ | :)_ |
15:16.03 | KatolaZ | deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii main |
15:16.03 | KatolaZ | deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii main |
15:16.03 | KatolaZ | deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ experimental main |
15:16.04 | KatolaZ | deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ experimental main |
15:16.06 | KatolaZ | .... |
15:16.22 | KatolaZ | well, you should use auto.mirror.devuan.org |
15:16.29 | KatolaZ | but it's exactly the same story |
15:18.23 | Wasp | in fact the default setup from devuan 1.0.0 (iso) is packages.devuan.org |
15:18.56 | KatolaZ | yeah I know |
15:21.23 | Wasp | changed to auto.mirror but still |
15:21.30 | Wasp | E: Unable to find a source package for vim |
15:21.55 | parazyd | wait for amprolla3 to be deployed |
15:22.25 | Wasp | ^^ |
15:23.52 | Wasp | .. whatever it will be. ;) |
15:24.00 | KatolaZ | Wasp: have you apt-get update-d? |
15:24.10 | Wasp | KatolaZ: -d? |
15:24.23 | Wasp | I did `apt-get update` |
15:24.29 | KatolaZ | I have just given apt-get source vim |
15:24.30 | KatolaZ | in ascii |
15:24.38 | Wasp | okay, don't know about ascii |
15:24.39 | KatolaZ | and I downloaded all the stuff |
15:24.49 | Wasp | I am kinda new to debian/devuan |
15:24.52 | KatolaZ | shouldn't be different in jessie |
15:25.00 | Wasp | seems it is |
15:25.01 | KatolaZ | have you run apt-get update |
15:25.04 | Wasp | yes |
15:25.11 | KatolaZ | after you have edited sources.list? |
15:25.22 | Wasp | deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan jessie main |
15:25.30 | Wasp | yes |
15:25.38 | KatolaZ | no mate |
15:25.42 | KatolaZ | it should be |
15:25.53 | KatolaZ | deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main |
15:26.02 | KatolaZ | sorry |
15:26.05 | KatolaZ | I misled you |
15:26.24 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@hq.m3team.it) |
15:26.30 | KatolaZ | it should be exactly the same line you have for "deb" |
15:26.36 | KatolaZ | only starting with "deb-src" |
15:26.59 | Wasp | Is there somewhere an explanation of all these mystical mirrors and parameters? |
15:29.22 | Wasp | duplicate line with this one: deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main |
15:29.57 | Wasp | okay seems I have to head out |
15:30.14 | Wasp | thank you anyway so far for you kind help |
15:31.23 | parazyd | o/ |
15:34.26 | *** join/#devuan guru (~guru@c-66-31-121-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
15:45.37 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-37-33.vpn.ipredator.se) |
15:46.29 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
15:47.25 | *** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@211.110-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
16:15.07 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-bceebc-209.dhcp.inet.fi) |
16:16.36 | *** join/#devuan engideavr (~damiano@host10-38-static.197-31-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
16:17.28 | *** join/#devuan msiism (~msi@dslb-188-103-134-174.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
16:18.36 | msiism | seems like dev1galaxy.org is sort of down |
16:25.57 | golinux | msiism: Yeah. Cheap host is totally down. |
16:29.31 | msiism | sorry to hear that. |
16:30.13 | parazyd | golinux: why isn't d1g migrated to the devuan infra. afaik we got a new bare metal machine |
16:31.39 | golinux | That's been talked about for months. |
16:32.11 | golinux | But out of my control. |
16:32.28 | parazyd | :( |
16:33.02 | KatolaZ | I agree it should be moved on our infra |
16:33.11 | golinux | Early on the host was unreliable but then settled in. Have not had an outage in many months. |
16:33.29 | KatolaZ | I remember that for some reason we couldn't do it at the time when we set the new gitlab |
16:33.40 | KatolaZ | which wasn't months ago, anyway |
16:33.47 | KatolaZ | we got the new server at the end of May |
16:34.05 | golinux | We've been discussing the move since January |
16:34.14 | KatolaZ | yes but the move to what? |
16:34.25 | KatolaZ | now we can move it |
16:34.29 | parazyd | to the bare metal |
16:34.32 | parazyd | on a new kvm or something |
16:34.41 | KatolaZ | parazyd: we got the bare metal at the end of may :) |
16:34.51 | parazyd | we have a bunch of ip addresses now, don't we? |
16:34.56 | KatolaZ | not any more |
16:35.01 | parazyd | hm? |
16:35.04 | KatolaZ | maybe #devuan-dev? |
16:35.11 | golinux | Just let us know when and how. |
16:36.19 | *** join/#devuan ChubYann (~ChubYann@AToulouse-659-1-101-254.w90-30.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
16:39.19 | msiism | as i've already posted on the forum, the Devuan i386 netinstall image is wrongly labeled "Debian 1.0 i386 1" |
16:43.51 | msiism | i mean the CD label displayed in file managers and such |
16:46.18 | *** join/#devuan agl (~Die_Kirsc@ipb21bb0b8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
16:48.16 | msiism | seem the wiki has been moved: http://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php |
16:48.52 | golinux | Yes, That happened yesterday. |
16:49.06 | msiism | is it save to work on? |
16:49.42 | golinux | I assume so. Didn't you get FTG's email? |
16:49.53 | msiism | not that i know of |
16:50.24 | golinux | Ah only sent to me. I'll forward |
16:50.28 | *** join/#devuan MiyoLinux (6c5198c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.81.152.198) |
16:50.29 | msiism | thanks |
16:50.55 | MiyoLinux | Drat...think I was on the wrong channel a while ago! |
16:52.35 | MiyoLinux | Hi everyone! I'll ask again here if that's okay... |
16:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | just ask |
16:53.27 | golinux | MiyoLinux: iirc, a locked screen couldn't be unlocked |
16:53.46 | MiyoLinux | I recall that there were some type of problems with KDE on Devuan in the past (can't remember the details). Are there any plans for Devuan to include KDE Plasma in the future? |
16:54.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | KDE has some dependencies to systemd |
16:54.13 | golinux | Answered on #debianfork just before you left\ |
16:54.21 | MiyoLinux | DOH! |
16:54.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | not many though, it seems |
16:54.44 | golinux | Search the logs and DNG for more info |
16:55.03 | MiyoLinux | Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the help. Hope you all have a nice day! |
16:55.17 | golinux | You too |
16:56.03 | *** part/#devuan MiyoLinux (6c5198c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.81.152.198) |
16:56.04 | golinux | msiism: Did you get it? |
16:56.12 | KatolaZ | MiyoLinux: parazyd has got it running with elogind |
16:56.18 | KatolaZ | gone |
16:56.25 | golinux | <iyo is already gpone |
16:56.57 | golinux | does keyboard salad |
16:57.38 | msiism | golinux: not yet. seems the delivery takes a while today. maybe something's wrong with the mal server again |
16:58.31 | parazyd | KatolaZ: was it elogind? |
16:58.40 | parazyd | i just installed it relatively normally in ascii |
16:58.44 | KatolaZ | oh |
16:58.51 | KatolaZ | I though you had used elogind |
16:59.05 | parazyd | no. though maybe the lockscreen would work with it :D |
16:59.11 | KatolaZ | oh ok |
16:59.16 | KatolaZ | I remembered something |
16:59.17 | KatolaZ | :) |
16:59.26 | parazyd | https://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/kde-devuan.webm |
16:59.30 | *** join/#devuan seagoon (ae8dcbe6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.141.203.230) |
16:59.46 | parazyd | this is vanilla ascii |
17:00.50 | golinux | My eyes are bleeding |
17:02.14 | golinux | Can't read anything wither - font too small |
17:04.46 | *** join/#devuan clopez (~tau@neutrino.es) |
17:08.07 | *** join/#devuan peetaur (~peter@p200300E10BC1EB00922B34FFFE307A16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
17:08.12 | *** join/#devuan Capricornus (~HexChat@94.163.89.89) |
17:09.06 | Capricornus | are there any news about the forum? it's down since at least five hours now |
17:09.26 | specing | Keep calm and install systemd |
17:09.47 | msiism | Capricornus: well, not yet, afaik. |
17:10.55 | Capricornus | msiism is the reason of the downtime known at least? maintenance? |
17:11.07 | *** join/#devuan JotaMG (~chatozill@5.109.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt) |
17:11.10 | golinux | The host is down |
17:11.32 | golinux | Cheap VPS |
17:11.50 | golinux | Can't even get to their main website |
17:12.47 | *** join/#devuan Jjp137 (~Jjp137@cpe-75-83-16-81.socal.res.rr.com) |
17:13.07 | Capricornus | :/ understood, putting an advice on the italian forum to inform people |
17:13.14 | Capricornus | thanks for the info golinux :) |
17:14.12 | golinux | OK Thanks! |
17:14.41 | golinux | You are getting more users there. Good to see you growing |
17:16.16 | Capricornus | :) mute users, but yeah, fingers crossed |
17:17.28 | jaromil | Capricornus: the whole hosting provider is down so we presume it will come up sometimes soon |
17:18.05 | Capricornus | thanks jaromil |
17:18.10 | Capricornus | let's hope it |
17:20.41 | detha | or maybe their business model eventually collapsed...... That seems to be the usual reaction whenever they have an extended outage |
17:22.08 | detha | But apparently there was a planned power outage(maintenance) in the area that DC is in |
17:35.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | detha: you'd hope they announce that stuff somewhere |
17:36.07 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@79.red-88-21-58.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
17:36.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Trying "100.187.137.64.in-addr.arpa" |
17:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Host 100.187.137.64.in-addr.arpa not found: 2(SERVFAIL) |
17:36.14 | aitor | hi again |
17:36.50 | *** join/#devuan s_kunk (~s_kunk@unaffiliated/s-kunk/x-5139101) |
17:37.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | reminds me to do rsync full offsite backups of all my servers more frequently |
17:38.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | a duply ftp tape archive backup on same hoster might not be sufficient |
17:39.46 | detha | two hosts, on different continents ;) |
17:43.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: ((vanuilla ascii)) htop is your friend ;-) |
17:44.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | no surprise lockscreen cocks up without the systemd shite like systemd*pam* whatever behind it |
17:45.17 | Capricornus | http://devuanitalia.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7#p7 <<<--- Dev1Galaxy forum down announcement |
17:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! |
17:46.02 | aitor | linux-heads failed giving the following error: |
17:46.06 | Capricornus | I just hope they are not running some systemd based distro, now being down for some bug :/ that would be hilarious |
17:46.14 | Capricornus | DocScrutinizer05 yw! |
17:46.25 | aitor | <PROTECTED> |
17:47.05 | aitor | there are some files like "libcpupower1.install", "libcpupower-dev.install", "libusbip-dev.install"... in the debian branch |
17:47.15 | aitor | these packages are included in the debian/control file, but they are not generated, as you can see here: |
17:47.46 | aitor | http://gnuinos.org/linux-libre-4.9.25/ |
17:48.13 | aitor | because they are only build-tools: those packages are installed only in the build-area, so there is no option like: |
17:48.22 | aitor | install-libcpupower1: DH_OPTIONS = -p$(PACKAGE_NAME) |
17:48.29 | aitor | in the debian/rules.gen |
17:48.37 | aitor | any hints, parazyd? |
17:48.46 | aitor | i'm using your config file |
17:49.11 | aitor | libcpupower1 worked in the case of linux-libre-4.9.25 |
17:49.23 | aitor | i have libpci-dev installed in the system |
17:50.09 | parazyd | i'm not sure what's the problem here |
17:51.41 | aitor | in some case i solved it removing libcpupower1, but i don't consider it a good idea |
17:52.34 | aitor | if you download http://gnuinos.org/linux-libre-4.9.25/linux_4.9.25-1.debian.tar.xz |
17:53.14 | aitor | you can find the Makefiles of these build-tools in rules.d/tools |
17:54.03 | parazyd | aitor: what do you want to do? i'm not understanding this |
17:54.38 | *** join/#devuan tallship (~tallship@47-144-201-112.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net) |
17:55.15 | aitor | i want to build installers for ascii with your kernel, probably i'll use it in gnuinos |
17:55.56 | parazyd | you'll run in trouble |
17:55.56 | parazyd | you have to manage PaX flags for memory-hungry binaries |
17:55.56 | parazyd | which is a tedious task |
17:57.01 | aitor | parazyd: i'll write in debian-kernel@lists.debian.org |
17:57.12 | *** part/#devuan catprints (~person2@172.58.86.144) |
17:57.42 | aitor | run in trouble? i did it several times |
17:58.06 | parazyd | yeah, compiling :D |
17:58.12 | parazyd | running it could be even more difficult |
17:59.19 | aitor | i just have a 32 Core |
18:01.54 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
18:06.51 | aitor | nah :) |
18:17.30 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.56.38.94) |
18:17.48 | *** join/#devuan ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
18:22.41 | *** join/#devuan bpmedley (~bpm@c-24-72-144-105.ni.gigamonster.net) |
18:27.24 | *** join/#devuan Chanku (~Chanku@2601:704:2:a700:21b:77ff:fea3:4a99) |
18:36.49 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
18:43.03 | *** join/#devuan Artemis3 (~artemis3@190-37-30-10.dyn.dsl.cantv.net) |
18:51.10 | *** join/#devuan ChubYann (~ChubYann@AToulouse-659-1-101-254.w90-30.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
19:09.52 | *** join/#devuan Mr_Pan (~Mr_Pan@unaffiliated/mr-pan/x-4457432) |
19:19.40 | *** join/#devuan georg-gast-1 (~georg@nebka.physik.tu-chemnitz.de) |
19:25.18 | georg-gast-1 | Hi, there. I'm running devuan ascii, having ascii, ascii-security, and ascii-updates in my sources.list but not getting any updates for weeks, What am I doing wrong? |
19:25.36 | parazyd | ascii is now merging with debian stretch |
19:25.51 | georg-gast-1 | yes |
19:26.05 | parazyd | it was frozen, so i guess you'll only be recieving security updates when they happen |
19:26.20 | parazyd | nothing to worry about. operations resume as normal |
19:26.53 | georg-gast-1 | many debian stretch packages are newer than those in devuan ascii |
19:27.19 | KatolaZ | georg-gast-1: like? |
19:27.30 | georg-gast-1 | second ... |
19:30.31 | georg-gast-1 | firefox-esr: ascii=45.9.0esr-1 stretch-security=52.2.0esr-1~deb9u1 |
19:31.39 | parazyd | hmm indeed |
19:31.45 | parazyd | my amprolla did it properly |
19:31.47 | parazyd | firefox-esr/testing-security 52.2.0esr-1~deb9u1 amd64 |
19:33.03 | parazyd | ah |
19:33.21 | georg-gast-1 | yes? |
19:33.38 | parazyd | Centurion_Dan mentioned we aren't merging -security (and possibly others) because of some limitations |
19:34.05 | parazyd | it should be resolved with deployment of the new amprolla version |
19:34.15 | georg-gast-1 | oops, that's kinda bad ... |
19:34.26 | georg-gast-1 | when will the new amprolla come? |
19:34.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't security supposed to get pulled straight from debian? |
19:34.57 | parazyd | it is, but i suppose the old codebase didn't know how to do it or something |
19:35.12 | parazyd | i'm really not sure what's the exact reason |
19:35.14 | georg-gast-1 | won't this pull in systemd? |
19:35.31 | parazyd | georg-gast-1: what would pull systemd? |
19:35.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, after all it's not installing new packkages, only updates. So worts case an update on a devuan-forked package could fer in the way |
19:35.53 | georg-gast-1 | fetching security directly from debian? |
19:36.08 | parazyd | georg-gast-1: no, systemd-dependent packages are not merged |
19:36.57 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: if you try http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged you'll see that the firefox version is indeed the one from stretch-security |
19:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | when a devuanized package rceives a security update, wouldn't that just fail due tio unmet dependencies to systemd? |
19:37.25 | parazyd | i'm not sure what's going on in production |
19:37.32 | georg-gast-1 | I mean including security directly from debian in my sources.list or did I get something wrong? |
19:37.56 | parazyd | -security updates usually don't receive new dependencies |
19:38.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: **for devuanitzed package** |
19:38.39 | parazyd | devuan hasn't forked any -security packages so far afaik |
19:38.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are no *new* dependencies, but old ones we kicked out in devuan |
19:39.00 | georg-gast-1 | I'll try ... |
19:39.08 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: if we kicked them, they wouldn't even be in the main repo |
19:39.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I don't understand how security updates work |
19:39.21 | parazyd | georg-gast-1: if you try my repo, make sure to add the pubkey |
19:39.25 | parazyd | it's here: http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged |
19:39.33 | parazyd | curl urltopubkey | apt-key add - |
19:39.56 | *** join/#devuan grp (~hermit@unaffiliated/grpala) |
19:40.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought the package manager checks all repos you got configured and uses the package from the highest prio repo (which is security) |
19:40.41 | parazyd | reminds me, i should log banned packages |
19:40.42 | *** join/#devuan grp (~hermit@unaffiliated/grpala) |
19:40.49 | parazyd | right now i'm only logging obsolete packages |
19:41.00 | parazyd | http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/ |
19:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | wgeb there are several repos with same prio, it uses the newest package |
19:41.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | when* |
19:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I'm totally mistaken |
19:42.34 | parazyd | no repo has the same priority |
19:42.46 | parazyd | in devuan |
19:43.03 | parazyd | or are you talking about apt's priority? |
19:43.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm talking about package manager, so yes apt |
19:45.04 | parazyd | ah, i wouldn't know in that case |
19:45.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought that concept was the whole point of having a security / updates repo |
19:45.22 | parazyd | yeah probably |
19:48.20 | parazyd | it seems only systemd and systemd-sysv are banned |
19:48.26 | parazyd | no packages explicitly depending on these |
19:49.46 | parazyd | let's wait for a full merge to finish |
19:49.50 | *** join/#devuan Guest1783 (~Guest@83.220.237.29) |
19:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm a total packaging/repo noob so I'd actually like somebody to explain to me what's the purpose and supposed way of usage of a security repo |
19:51.23 | *** join/#devuan DingoSaar_ (~hagen@pD9E085A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
19:51.28 | *** join/#devuan guru (~guru@c-66-31-121-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
19:52.08 | parazyd | in debian package versions are usually frozen on a stable release |
19:52.16 | parazyd | meanin they won't receive any updates. |
19:52.39 | parazyd | only if you use the security repos you will get security updates which are mostly the same package versions, patched to fix the bug |
19:52.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | on suse prolly same, so they got an "updates" repo |
19:52.58 | parazyd | so yeah |
19:53.00 | parazyd | http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/bannedpkgs.txt |
19:53.14 | parazyd | only these two seem banned. no packages explicitly depending on them |
19:55.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall that very topic been discussed weeks or months ago already, and the conclusion was along the line I sketched above. Security updates are getting pulled directly from debian and will cause dependency error if they are based on a package that got forked by devuan for de-poetterization. All other security patches should get into devuan very same moment they appear in debian's security repo |
19:56.08 | parazyd | yes |
19:56.21 | parazyd | which is why i just wrote a patch to log them so we can be aware if it happens |
19:57.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | "getting pulled by user's package manager" is probably something I implied, don't know if correctly though |
19:58.20 | parazyd | no, it actually won't exist in the repos |
19:58.28 | parazyd | if it depends on either systemd or systemd-sysv |
19:58.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
19:59.14 | parazyd | a package depending on systemd/systemd-sysv doesn't get into packages.devuan.org/merged |
19:59.34 | parazyd | so they would never even exist, not pulled in by apt |
19:59.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, but its forked devuan version sure as hell will, eventually |
20:00.06 | parazyd | yes, and those are here: http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/oldpkgs.txt |
20:00.14 | *** join/#devuan amphi (~amphi@187.red-83-39-227.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
20:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is all we discuss here, plus the packages that do not depend on systemd and thus get pulled from debian anyway, thanks amprolla |
20:00.34 | georg-gast-1 | Thanks for the help, I got my firefox updates now without trouble. |
20:00.41 | parazyd | georg-gast-1: using my repo? |
20:00.54 | parazyd | glad to hear it works out :) one step towards production deployment hehe |
20:01.04 | parazyd | i'm merging all ascii repos |
20:01.11 | parazyd | including -security, -updates... |
20:01.53 | georg-gast-1 | parazyd: no, from http://security.debian.org/ maybe I try your repo later ... |
20:01.58 | parazyd | ah ok |
20:02.15 | parazyd | that's essentially the same repo because we haven't forked any of those packages so far |
20:02.33 | parazyd | georg-gast-1: did you use "stretch" as the repo name? |
20:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | does there exist a devuan security repo? |
20:02.41 | georg-gast-1 | yes, that what I understood now. |
20:02.45 | parazyd | if not please do, because if you use "testing" it's something else |
20:03.10 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: ascii-security and jessie-security are devuan's |
20:03.16 | parazyd | they get merged with security.debian.org |
20:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah ok |
20:03.34 | parazyd | the point is, there aren't any of OUR packages there so the merge is basically just a copy of security.debian.or |
20:03.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to refer to a discussion held at a time where those didn't exist yet |
20:03.53 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.101.32) |
20:03.54 | parazyd | maybe they don't |
20:04.03 | parazyd | i'm talking about my own instance |
20:04.13 | parazyd | but the same logic applies to current production |
20:07.17 | Oldmoss | <PROTECTED> |
20:07.22 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-37-33.vpn.ipredator.se) |
20:08.31 | msiism | reading about the BSD's base system approach, i was just thinking: how come that in Debian and hence in Devuan, the /opt hierarchy is not being used as the standard installation target for add-on software, such as web browsers, media players, desktop enviroenments etc.? |
20:09.20 | parazyd | in bsd you usually have ports no? and when you install a binary package it ends up in /opt because it's not a part of the planned base system |
20:09.39 | msiism | i think so |
20:09.44 | parazyd | in linux, i think virtualbox and firefox do this if you don't install them through a package manager |
20:10.14 | msiism | parazyd: ok, i know cdrtools installs to /opt if you build it from source. |
20:10.44 | parazyd | yeah some packages do |
20:10.58 | parazyd | but whatever you install outside of the package manager does end up in opt |
20:11.06 | msiism | i see |
20:11.10 | parazyd | (the big software, let's say) |
20:11.37 | msiism | so basically, everything in the package repos is "base system" in Devuan |
20:11.52 | parazyd | in /opt you don't have a normal hierarchy, rather a specific directory with the name of the software you installed |
20:11.59 | parazyd | normal libraries and small software end up in /usr/local |
20:12.06 | parazyd | msiism: in devuan, and any other distro |
20:12.21 | msiism | but beneath that there's a subhierarchy, defined in the FHS |
20:12.28 | parazyd | msiism: in /opt? |
20:12.28 | msiism | i mean /opt |
20:12.41 | parazyd | hmm might be, but i thought it wasn't |
20:13.05 | parazyd | again, i believe it depends on the software |
20:14.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: un my book /opt is the only truly obsolete dir specified in http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html |
20:14.42 | parazyd | `man hier` says: /opt This directory should contain add-on packages that contain static files. |
20:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | legacy from times where you needed an own storage volume for that |
20:15.20 | parazyd | so is /srv |
20:15.23 | parazyd | but that's arguable imho |
20:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | /srv for sure |
20:16.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't see relevance of /opt nowadays |
20:16.16 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: why not? |
20:16.25 | parazyd | personally it's the only place i would extract a firefox tarball with binaries |
20:16.33 | parazyd | for an example |
20:16.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not install to /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin ? |
20:17.10 | parazyd | because i have the whole structure in /opt/firefox and i don't have to look for it when i want to delete it |
20:17.26 | parazyd | and that's what opt is used for |
20:17.39 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: because that's less clear |
20:17.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware that in times of package managers you usually are not supposed to delete packages this way? |
20:18.15 | msiism | parazyd: right. also, if software built from source does not rpovide a decent unistall target, it's much better to have that in /opt |
20:18.17 | parazyd | i said: extract a firefox tarball with binaries, not installing firefox through apt |
20:18.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | doinf tarball extract you're free to install that stuff to /opt of course |
20:18.56 | parazyd | yes and i'd rather do that than pollute my /usr/local |
20:19.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the original question however was why package manager doesn't install it to /opt iirc |
20:19.33 | msiism | right |
20:19.41 | parazyd | because the package manager holds the logic of the installed files, and files installed through the package manager are part of the system |
20:19.51 | msiism | ok |
20:19.56 | parazyd | you fill /opt yourself |
20:20.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | that seems like the "accepted answer" :-) |
20:27.16 | msiism | what exactly does it mean that "The torrent contains all files for a given release" when i download Devuan using the release torrent? does that mean: release image, README, checksum file and signature? |
20:27.38 | parazyd | all the hierarcy found at https://files.devuan.org |
20:27.53 | parazyd | then in your torrent client you can choose what you want if you don't want everything |
20:27.55 | msiism | i see |
20:28.16 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@217.23.3.91) |
20:31.17 | msiism | parazyd: and i'll be seeing the whole tree/dir structure before i download? |
20:31.54 | parazyd | sure. usually in a graphical torrent client you'll see a window offering you to choose files when you load the torrent |
20:34.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: if you're only interested in a few files and have no problems with downloading them via wget or in your browser, you can pick them from the mirrors as well. Seems they all have plenty of unused bandwidth |
20:34.20 | *** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@50.120.94.10) |
20:34.28 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: in theory a torrent should be faster than our mirror |
20:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | in practize however it's the other way around, at least for me :-) |
20:35.20 | parazyd | are you even allowed to torrent in your country? :p |
20:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
20:35.42 | msiism | parazyd: so, what's reasonable torrent client in the repos? |
20:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's wrong with torrent? |
20:35.57 | parazyd | msiism: i guess deluge or transmission |
20:36.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | except the overhead of protocol |
20:36.20 | msiism | parazyd: ok, i'll have a look at these |
20:36.26 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: in germany it's banned usually. in france torrenting==illegal downloading of files |
20:36.36 | parazyd | by a definition in the law |
20:36.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? nope |
20:36.57 | msiism | parazyd: what do you mean by "it's banned" in germany? |
20:36.59 | parazyd | most homes i went to in germany say: please don't torrent in my house |
20:37.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | in Germany actually only sharing copyrighted files is outlawed |
20:37.05 | specing | Here I can torrent stuff for personal use |
20:37.07 | parazyd | people usually pay fines |
20:37.21 | specing | I haven't heard of any downloader ever being fined |
20:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, for uploading copyrighted files |
20:38.30 | specing | but every torrenter is also sharing at the same time |
20:38.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Gema has a bazillion lawyers with specialized programs to track down your IP when you provide the Shakeera mp3 that you're just downloading |
20:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | specing: exactly |
20:39.21 | specing | lol Gema the video is not available in your country |
20:40.06 | specing | I don't torrent much though |
20:40.16 | specing | its all crap anyway |
20:40.45 | parazyd | torrents all his music and videos |
20:41.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | torrent protocol gets technically blocked and denied in contract by a few ISPs |
20:41.21 | specing | for music you can record internet radios |
20:42.02 | msiism | well, Devuan officially recommends downloading releases via torrent. |
20:42.09 | specing | its usually even better as they have a DJ that mixes the music together so its C^1 |
20:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually they forbid all P2P services, not just torrent |
20:42.32 | specing | DocScrutinizer05: who? |
20:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | some ISPs |
20:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly wireless |
20:43.17 | specing | in Germany?? |
20:43.18 | msiism | if that can cause problems, it probably should be only an option, not a recommendation. |
20:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | specing: yup, last time I checked (which is a few years back) |
20:45.02 | specing | well what can I say |
20:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | no sane person would do P2P via their traffic-capped LTE account anyway |
20:46.28 | specing | I would |
20:46.37 | specing | when the cap is like 50GB... |
20:46.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | O2 even forbid SIP. Dunno if they still do |
20:46.44 | *** join/#devuan bn_ (~bn_@c-65-50-70-13.hs.gigamonster.net) |
20:46.54 | specing | 15 eur for 50GB |
20:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | they don't block it anyway |
20:47.08 | specing | its actually very competitive to FTTH if you don't consume |
20:47.13 | *** join/#devuan TwoTwenty (~mgregoir@206.87.32.120) |
20:47.15 | specing | 10 eur for 20GB |
20:47.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow, good deal |
20:47.28 | specing | I'm thinking about just going wireless |
20:47.38 | specing | wired is like 25 eur but uncapped |
20:47.42 | specing | FTTH |
20:47.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just went BK with 400Mb downlink 25 up |
20:48.14 | specing | 25 up lol |
20:48.22 | specing | SAD! |
20:48.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
20:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | better than any DSL you could get |
20:49.04 | specing | I'd like an ISP to sell me 25 down 400 up for the price of 400 down 25 up :D |
20:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | except those commercial grade ones where you can switch down and up bandwidth |
20:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | specing: hehe me too |
20:49.35 | specing | DocScrutinizer05: do you have a cap? |
20:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
20:49.50 | specing | if not, just download shit continuously out of principle |
20:50.00 | specing | at 40 MB/s you are bound to prove a point |
20:50.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | 400 |
20:50.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
20:50.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | nm |
20:52.30 | *** join/#devuan XuR (~quassel@ip98-165-26-174.ph.ph.cox.net) |
20:53.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6434337613 |
20:53.49 | specing | not iperf? sad |
20:54.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn DS-lite drives me nuts |
20:55.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, that's getting OT |
20:56.47 | greenjeans | msiism: Have used Transmission a fair bit, works great so I never bothered to try another client |
20:56.56 | *** join/#devuan matlock (~matlock@24.96.131.20) |
20:57.56 | *** join/#devuan kdlsp (~s@37.46.168.202) |
20:58.32 | msiism | greenjeans: ok. i've decided not to try these things out. |
20:59.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | msiism: indeed a mere wget is way simpler to use |
21:00.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | wget http://neo900.files.dev-1.org/<whatever-you-want>, or just "save link as..." in your browser |
21:03.03 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: i know. i just needed to know about the torrent stuff for documentation purposes (https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/devuan_doc:getting_devuan#download) |
21:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah |
21:03.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | has a very strange deja-vu |
21:04.16 | msiism | yes, i've asked about this two weeks ago or so already |
21:04.33 | msiism | but still i wasn't really sure about it |
21:04.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I think the whole discussion went pretty much verbatim the same |
21:05.11 | msiism | well, i can't really remember. |
21:07.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-06-24/?msg=87725183&page=3 |
21:07.57 | JotaMG | so, devuan repos for ascii are currently not up to date, right? |
21:09.37 | JotaMG | because I just use http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged and got new updates |
21:09.39 | JotaMG | before there was none |
21:10.11 | parazyd | JotaMG: is it the -security and -updates repos? |
21:10.15 | JotaMG | so i conclude there is something wrong with the official repos??? |
21:10.23 | msiism | DocScrutinizer05: right. the internet, as they say, forgets nothing. |
21:10.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, devuan ascii isn't officially released yet, to start with. Means it's supposed to be "broken" with respect to devuan's rules |
21:10.56 | JotaMG | the complete set :-) |
21:10.57 | JotaMG | deb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii main contrib non-free |
21:10.59 | JotaMG | deb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii-updates main contrib non-free |
21:11.00 | JotaMG | deb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii-security main contrib non-free |
21:11.02 | JotaMG | deb http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/merged ascii-backports main contrib non-free |
21:11.06 | parazyd | ack |
21:11.19 | parazyd | in production i don't think devuan is merging the last three properly |
21:11.34 | parazyd | so once my version is deployed things should resolve |
21:11.49 | JotaMG | hope so! |
21:11.56 | parazyd | *Wizzup's and mine |
21:12.01 | KatolaZ | JotaMG: as DocScrutinizer05 said, ascii has not been released |
21:12.23 | JotaMG | yes I'm not complaining :-) |
21:12.33 | KatolaZ | :) |
21:12.45 | parazyd | JotaMG: as for my repo, do continue to use it, but here and there there might be some brokenness |
21:12.54 | parazyd | since i'm developing amprolla using that repo |
21:13.21 | parazyd | and there's no https or tor |
21:14.01 | JotaMG | ok, no problem |
21:14.03 | JotaMG | when you think production will be stable ?? |
21:14.19 | parazyd | when Centurion_Dan decides to deploy this version |
21:14.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | even then, de-poetterization pending |
21:15.15 | JotaMG | what is de-poetterization ?? |
21:15.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | weeding out the systemd dependencies |
21:15.49 | JotaMG | ok |
21:16.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW backports is missing stuff and systemd may and prolly will slip in via ascii |
21:16.18 | parazyd | i did a merge, there are no packages explicitly depending on systemd/systemd-sysv |
21:16.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
21:16.44 | JotaMG | and are you talking about weeks or months waiting ? |
21:16.57 | parazyd | JotaMG: ? |
21:17.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not a dev of any flavor, of devuan. So ... |
21:17.37 | msiism | JotaMG: de-poetterization it's a cynicism directed against the main dev of systemd. (just so you know, in case you didn't) |
21:18.00 | JotaMG | when do you estimate production repos will be ok? in weeks or months ? |
21:18.16 | parazyd | only Centurion_Dan can tell you that for now |
21:18.26 | parazyd | they will be "ok" as soon as it's deployed |
21:18.52 | JotaMG | msiism: did not know but thanks |
21:20.01 | JotaMG | so for the next weeks i will have to be cautious with the updates, right? |
21:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, updates are prolly most safe part in ascii. When you had no systemd imported already, updates won't do either |
21:21.24 | parazyd | doing another merge now to see what's the status of libsystemd0 |
21:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless a package switches to the dark side |
21:21.48 | JotaMG | ok |
21:24.40 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@ip-78-45-133-27.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
21:24.42 | JotaMG | one of these days I plan to move a Armbian install on a bananapi to devuan |
21:25.26 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss_ (~Oldmoss@anon-46-32.vpn.ipredator.se) |
21:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | then parazyd is the man to talk to :-) |
21:25.58 | parazyd | i still have to build images for most of the bananapis |
21:26.18 | parazyd | but if you have a board to test it on, please let me know if you're willing to try out a few images |
21:26.21 | parazyd | i'm also in #devuan-arm |
21:27.01 | JotaMG | ok I can burn to a sd and try |
21:27.14 | JotaMG | what kernel are you using? |
21:27.26 | parazyd | usually the latest mainline available |
21:27.39 | parazyd | meaning: no video, just serial/ssh access |
21:27.41 | JotaMG | ok that's good |
21:29.21 | JotaMG | I can test on a Banana Pi M2 Ultra (Allwinner R40) or a orangepi (H3) |
21:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders how many fruits got already pi'ed |
21:33.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | time for tomato pasty instead fruit pie ;-D |
21:33.39 | fsmithred_ | I think you mean pastry |
21:33.48 | fsmithred_ | pasties are something else |
21:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/06/plasma-desktopqY8317.png |
21:34.37 | golinux | Wrong channel? |
21:34.42 | greenjeans | lol fsr |
21:34.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, sorry |
21:35.17 | fsmithred_ | I just looked it up, and I'm wrong |
21:35.46 | fsmithred_ | and.. |
21:35.46 | golinux | doesn't know what fsr is talking about |
21:35.59 | fsmithred_ | I just uploaded the first refracta-ascii-nox |
21:35.59 | golinux | but it's off topic |
21:40.08 | fsmithred_ | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/refracta9_nox_i386_pre-alpha-20170706_1927.iso/download |
21:40.33 | fsmithred_ | oops |
21:40.38 | fsmithred_ | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/refracta9_nox_i386_pre-alpha-20170706_1927.iso |
21:40.56 | fsmithred_ | that's better. You don't need the /download on the end. |
21:41.44 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
21:45.12 | *** join/#devuan FlibberTGibbet (~david@cust241-dsl93-89-129.idnet.net) |
21:45.31 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/libsystemd0.txt |
21:48.04 | KatolaZ | parazyd: most of those have already been de-systemd-ised in jessie |
21:48.11 | KatolaZ | they are in jessie-proposed |
21:48.16 | KatolaZ | and in jessie-proposed-updates |
21:48.23 | parazyd | yeah i guess |
21:48.27 | parazyd | but a lot are -security |
21:48.35 | *** join/#devuan mn3monic (~xxwa@94.177.176.239) |
21:48.35 | *** join/#devuan mn3monic (~xxwa@unaffiliated/mn3monic) |
21:48.38 | parazyd | and with those i'm sure we're lagging behind |
21:48.42 | KatolaZ | yep |
21:48.56 | parazyd | note: i still need help with amprolla being aware which suite these packages are in |
21:50.12 | KatolaZ | mmmmhhhh |
21:50.26 | KatolaZ | it must know that, right? |
21:50.32 | parazyd | not really, no |
21:50.48 | parazyd | the scoping doesn't allow me to share the suite name between modules |
21:51.23 | parazyd | a really ugly solution would be to pass the name between all of the functions... but that's the very last thing i'd consider tbh |
21:52.51 | parazyd | (python's globals are global maximally in the module they're declared in) |
21:54.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I usually have a parameter "globals" (usually a struct) that I pass down via all calls to all modules |
21:55.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | comes in handy for other global flags and values too |
21:56.18 | parazyd | oh |
21:56.30 | parazyd | that just might be the right way to do it |
21:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure. Always feeling a little bit dirty doing it ;-) |
21:57.43 | *** part/#devuan msiism (~msi@dslb-188-103-134-174.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
21:57.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it has proven to be handy at least for me |
21:58.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus it keeps patameter lists short |
21:58.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | parameter* |
22:00.01 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: how exactly do you pass it? |
22:02.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on language I'm using |
22:02.38 | parazyd | in python |
22:02.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not very good at python |
22:03.09 | parazyd | i'm guessing i could use ctypes and pointers |
22:03.18 | Centurion_Dan | o/ |
22:03.19 | parazyd | this could make the code ugly... |
22:03.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi Centurion_Dan |
22:03.34 | parazyd | hola |
22:03.50 | Centurion_Dan | I have a phone call to make, but after that I can give an hour or so... |
22:03.51 | KatolaZ | parazyd: you can pass an object |
22:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
22:04.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good |
22:04.02 | parazyd | KatolaZ: to every function call? |
22:04.04 | KatolaZ | passing is done by ref in python |
22:04.16 | Centurion_Dan | maybe 30 min call... |
22:04.21 | KatolaZ | well, you don't need this info in every function call |
22:04.22 | parazyd | i could pass any variable that way, that's what i'm trying to avoid |
22:04.50 | parazyd | KatolaZ: i do need it in every nesting call during the merge, to move it through the scope where i actually log the packages |
22:05.14 | parazyd | some global pointer would be indeed useful |
22:05.26 | *** join/#devuan tarbz2 (~Thunderbi@186.23.155.100) |
22:05.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | a ref to an object is a global pointer auzu |
22:05.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui* |
22:08.07 | KatolaZ | parazyd: create a module variable |
22:08.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | so in the end an address |
22:08.07 | KatolaZ | and assign it in the first function called in that module |
22:08.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty lightweight to push that onto stack prior to function call |
22:08.27 | KatolaZ | it's dirty, but the alternative is passing references around |
22:16.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you want 'clean', make an object consisting of suite and package name and pass that - aiui that would be a correctly formed data entity for the usecase |
22:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | of you want 'lightweight', concat the two names into one string, with a delimiter in between |
22:18.24 | parazyd | i think i'll go with a "global" module |
22:19.29 | parazyd | oh hey it seems to work |
22:19.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least that works :-) |
22:19.45 | parazyd | let's wait a minute or two for the merge to finish |
22:20.18 | parazyd | thanks! |
22:26.45 | *** join/#devuan XuR_ (~quassel@ip98-165-26-174.ph.ph.cox.net) |
22:27.01 | parazyd | heh it worked out :) |
22:27.03 | parazyd | http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/bannedpkgs.txt |
22:27.07 | parazyd | http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/libsystemd0.txt |
22:27.10 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.231.114.120) |
22:27.12 | parazyd | http://amprolla.parazyd.cf/log/oldpkgs.txt |
22:28.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
22:28.57 | parazyd | ok, now we have actual parseable stats |
22:30.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | glad I could help a tiny bit |
22:31.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | wasted my coding fu for almost a decade now |
22:31.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for some cheesy tiny vash scripts |
22:32.43 | *** part/#devuan TwoTwenty (~mgregoir@206.87.32.120) |
22:33.33 | parazyd | :) |
22:33.57 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82.69.63.196) |
22:42.06 | *** join/#devuan VPNlovin (~tech@96-41-164-160.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com) |
22:42.28 | VPNlovin | Hey. Running a Beta2 server, need to upgrade the repos, all the ones I've tried from googling are fail. |
22:43.11 | VPNlovin | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main |
22:43.11 | VPNlovin | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main |
22:43.11 | VPNlovin | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main |
22:43.22 | VPNlovin | Are what do not work. |
22:43.57 | parazyd | what do you mean they don't work? |
22:44.22 | VPNlovin | Ah, nm.. I think I have a DNS issue. DOH! |
22:44.31 | VPNlovin | feels stupid |
22:44.43 | parazyd | something your ISP is doing? |
22:45.07 | VPNlovin | No, probably I forgot to update the DNS in the net config after the last router upgrade. |
22:45.15 | VPNlovin | Hunting for it now. |
22:45.30 | parazyd | i see |
22:46.07 | VPNlovin | pebcak. Sorry fellas. LOL |
22:47.02 | parazyd | heh don't apologize :D |
22:48.27 | VPNlovin | Huh.... So, updated the DNS to my local dns, still not resolving any URLs. |
22:48.49 | VPNlovin | Can ping IPs though, no problem |
22:50.08 | parazyd | dig @8.8.8.8 auto.mirror.devuan.org |
22:50.59 | VPNlovin | server found |
22:51.07 | VPNlovin | so... that works. |
22:51.19 | VPNlovin | but I can't ping domain.com |
22:51.35 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.39) |
22:51.44 | VPNlovin | And no other DNS issues on any other machines on the network. |
22:52.25 | parazyd | so your dns server is malfunctioned |
22:52.35 | VPNlovin | No, it's working everywhere else. |
22:52.44 | parazyd | you sure it's the same one? |
22:52.55 | VPNlovin | and even if I set the dns-nameservers to 8.8.8.8, it won't pull DNS. |
22:53.00 | VPNlovin | (only on this server) |
22:53.03 | parazyd | hmm |
22:53.13 | VPNlovin | Yeah, really odd. |
22:53.27 | parazyd | you're looking at /etc/resolv.conf? |
22:54.24 | VPNlovin | No... That solved it. |
22:54.40 | VPNlovin | I was doing the /etc/network/interfaces dns-nameservers |
22:54.46 | VPNlovin | Is that deprecated? |
22:55.05 | parazyd | not sure |
22:55.59 | VPNlovin | now I can ping google.com, but still can't apt-get update. |
22:56.00 | VPNlovin | LOL |
22:56.16 | parazyd | hah |
22:56.31 | VPNlovin | OK, well... init 6, to see if that clears it up. |
22:57.46 | VPNlovin | Nope. |
22:57.52 | VPNlovin | Can ping devuan.org |
22:58.01 | VPNlovin | but can't ping mirror.devuan.org |
22:58.24 | VPNlovin | but CAN ping auto.mirror.devuan.org |
22:58.43 | parazyd | well that's ok |
22:59.22 | VPNlovin | Wait, I think I found it.... brb |
22:59.41 | parazyd | gotta sleep |
22:59.47 | parazyd | afk |
23:00.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | VPNlovin: all resolvers I know have caching |
23:00.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | changing DNS IP won't instantly propagate |
23:00.56 | VPNlovin | <PROTECTED> |
23:00.56 | VPNlovin | Err http://auto.mirror.devuan.org jessie-updates Release.gpg |
23:01.16 | VPNlovin | DocScrutinizer05: That's why I rebooted. |
23:01.22 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.232.190.dyn.user.ono.com) |
23:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | try http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ in browser |
23:02.42 | gnarface | VPNlovin: you need the resolvconf package for dns-nameservers to be recognized in /etc/network/interfaces |
23:02.48 | gnarface | VPNlovin: otherwise use /etc/resolv.conf |
23:03.06 | VPNlovin | gnarface: Solved that issue already. But you are right! |
23:03.07 | VPNlovin | :) |
23:03.20 | VPNlovin | DocScrutinizer05: Loads in browser. |
23:03.35 | VPNlovin | and can ping on the server. |
23:03.43 | gnarface | pastebin your sources.list? |
23:03.56 | VPNlovin | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main |
23:03.57 | VPNlovin | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main |
23:03.57 | VPNlovin | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main |
23:04.04 | VPNlovin | That's it! |
23:04.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Err http://auto.mirror.devuan.org jessie-updates Release.gpg<< ! |
23:04.46 | VPNlovin | Yeah, is that a key issue, or? |
23:05.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly, I don't know apt. Anyway http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie-updates/Release.gpg works |
23:05.38 | *** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it) |
23:05.39 | VPNlovin | oh wait... there's a bad proxy in the apt.conf.... |
23:05.41 | VPNlovin | DUH. |
23:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
23:05.55 | VPNlovin | Because I initially set this up at a different location that required TOR proxy. |
23:05.57 | VPNlovin | MEH |
23:06.03 | VPNlovin | feels stupid all over again. |
23:06.14 | *** part/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.39) |
23:06.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | welcome to the club :-) |
23:06.29 | VPNlovin | ....and it's working. |
23:06.30 | VPNlovin | LOL |
23:07.45 | VPNlovin | All this to solve a STUPID issue at my other location that I can't work around because of the local ISP being garbage. |
23:08.07 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.232.190.dyn.user.ono.com) |
23:08.20 | *** join/#devuan DingoSaar_ (~hagen@pD9E085A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
23:08.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, this been you with the ISP garbling http:/ ? |
23:09.28 | VPNlovin | ? Not sure what you mean. My ISP at a different location hard throttles anything with any amount of traffic, so I can't apt-update or apt-upgrade. |
23:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | then nevermind |
23:09.45 | VPNlovin | So my work around is to TOR proxy all my apt. |
23:09.51 | VPNlovin | (at that location). |
23:10.02 | VPNlovin | This server is now at a DIFF location that has no TOR proxy, or need. |
23:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's apt tor "plugin" afaik |
23:10.37 | *** join/#devuan mystified (~myst@110-174-9-2.static.tpgi.com.au) |
23:11.32 | VPNlovin | Man, that system boots so fast! |
23:11.40 | VPNlovin | Almost like I don't need systemd. LOL |
23:11.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>install apt-transport-tor<< >>deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie main ...<< |
23:12.20 | golinux | Reality check: You DON'T need systemd |
23:12.32 | VPNlovin | Ooooohhhh I'll be doing that at the other location. Thanks DOc! |
23:12.40 | VPNlovin | golinux: YES I KNOW. LOL |
23:12.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
23:13.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | see https://devuan.org/ |
23:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | quote from there |
23:13.40 | gnarface | wasn't someone saying we're faster than systemd in current debian? |
23:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
23:14.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | no surprise really |
23:14.21 | gnarface | yes, you're right it shouldn't be a surprise that they have no restraint or integrity |
23:14.31 | golinux | Reading the FDN forum has been rather amusing lately . . . |
23:14.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mr Knopper elaborated about how massive parallelism in init can slow down stuff or even bring it to a grinding halt |
23:15.17 | VPNlovin | The proof is in the pudding. Debian 8 puked on a ton of stuff in my datacenters. |
23:15.37 | VPNlovin | Deb 7 ran perfectly. So... unless it was something BESIDES systemd.... I'M OUT. |
23:15.42 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
23:15.56 | VPNlovin | Which is why I'm here, and haven't had any problems since (other than crappy ISPs, idiot users, the usual). |
23:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a YT vid he explained how parallelism results in lots of searches on storage medium (I like to add: "and to buffer flushes") |
23:17.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | so for knoppix that resulted in systemd init finally timing out and everything going down the sewer |
23:17.02 | VPNlovin | Have you guys been following the guy who has been documenting all the systemd issues on voat.co? |
23:17.15 | VPNlovin | He's awesome. He's found some REALLY terrible stuff. |
23:17.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | on optical drives |
23:17.38 | gnarface | it shouldn't be surprised that systemd's development direction belies what they initially claimed to be their priorities either |
23:17.50 | gnarface | s/surprised/a surprise/ |
23:27.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | boot speed is overrated anyway |
23:27.35 | VPNlovin | Yeah, I'm zero surprised. I saw Poettering's name and knew it was a hard pass. |
23:27.47 | VPNlovin | Then I did more research, and I was like, NOOOOPE |
23:30.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-07-04 Tue 02:15:15] <golinux> Here's a list of 'not a bug' issues: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed+label%3Anot-a-bug |
23:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | have fun! :-P |
23:30.47 | gnarface | hah |
23:32.13 | VPNlovin | THAT IS GOLD. |
23:32.14 | VPNlovin | lol |
23:33.20 | VPNlovin | Thanks for all my pebcak help. <3 |
23:33.24 | VPNlovin | bbl |
23:50.30 | *** join/#devuan fsda6342 (~User@host-69-145-45-32.shr-wy.client.bresnan.net) |
23:54.36 | *** join/#devuan alexlikerock (~alexliker@200.68.135.220) |
23:57.50 | *** join/#devuan Jjp137 (~Jjp137@cpe-75-83-16-81.socal.res.rr.com) |