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| 00:22.54 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 01:26.14 | bozonius | no sound in my devuan 1.0 VirtualBox VM |
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| 01:26.46 | bozonius | syslog shows: alsa-util.c: Disabling timer-based scheduling because running inside a VM. |
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| 01:27.13 | bozonius | googling seems to indicate problem is related to a patch in alsa that was put in for people running sound in a VM |
| 01:27.48 | bozonius | there's also a message in syslog saying to report bug to devs, but people already have and there has been no resolution |
| 01:28.04 | bozonius | anyone here also running Devuan 1.0 under VM? Do you have sound? |
| 01:29.14 | Schallaven | bozonius: give me a minute |
| 01:29.20 | bozonius | thanks |
| 01:29.22 | bozonius | np |
| 01:29.28 | gnarface | if you guys can't figure it out, it's probably worth asking in #alsa about this |
| 01:29.52 | gnarface | (though #alsa may not wake up and answer until tomorrow morning) |
| 01:30.02 | bozonius | hi gnarface. Only reason I'm asking here is that one "solution" offered indicated that it could be due to old kernel code |
| 01:30.17 | bozonius | so I thought I should check here first |
| 01:30.26 | gnarface | what was the solution offered? "use backports?" |
| 01:30.28 | bozonius | but I take your advice, of course :) |
| 01:31.24 | Schallaven | ok, first I have to find a sound to play |
| 01:31.44 | bozonius | ooh I forgot to try aplay |
| 01:31.57 | bozonius | let me check... |
| 01:32.16 | gnarface | Schallaven: speaker-test -f dat -c 2 -t wav |
| 01:32.43 | bozonius | nope nothing from aplay |
| 01:33.04 | bozonius | nothing from speaker-test either |
| 01:33.14 | Schallaven | speaker-test works |
| 01:33.19 | gnarface | bozonius: no errors, just silence? |
| 01:33.22 | Schallaven | sometimes solutions can be so simple :D |
| 01:33.26 | bozonius | yep |
| 01:33.36 | bozonius | funny, this worked a while back... |
| 01:33.45 | gnarface | the VM might need special packages inside the guest install? |
| 01:33.49 | gnarface | VMware does... |
| 01:34.09 | Schallaven | I did not install the special guest packages _inside_ the box |
| 01:34.11 | bozonius | you mean the guest additions? |
| 01:34.11 | Schallaven | just outside |
| 01:34.21 | bozonius | I don't think they are needed for sound |
| 01:34.24 | bozonius | (IIRC) |
| 01:34.39 | gnarface | just for graphics perhaps |
| 01:34.40 | Schallaven | I set up audio as "pulseaudio" in VB |
| 01:34.55 | bozonius | me too |
| 01:35.11 | bozonius | controller ac97 |
| 01:35.35 | gnarface | you checked the volume in alsamixer too, right? not sure whether it needs to be set in the guest or outside. maybe both? i'd check both anyway |
| 01:35.47 | gnarface | i'd also try some other devices with speaker-test |
| 01:35.51 | Schallaven | and inxi gives me "Intel 82801AA AC'97 Audio Controller, driver: snd_intel8x0, etc" |
| 01:35.52 | bozonius | well, I get sound in my Ubuntu VM |
| 01:35.56 | gnarface | like speaker-test -D hw:0,0 |
| 01:36.50 | bozonius | get error "setting of hwparams failed: Invalid argument" |
| 01:36.50 | gnarface | bozonius: it's worth noting that Ubuntu includes the VMWare guest additions by default. (this was the cause of TwistedFate spending literally months trying to figure out why Ubuntu was faster than Devuan) |
| 01:37.27 | gnarface | unfortunately, being unfamiliar with VMware or whatever it is you're using, i can only offer anecdotes |
| 01:39.26 | gnarface | hmmm. what else? could be permissions |
| 01:39.47 | bozonius | I even tried removing my .config/pulse directory and restaring pulseaudio |
| 01:39.48 | gnarface | don't forget to add yourself to the audio group (wouldn't be necessary with Ubuntu because systemd removes group restrictions on device access) |
| 01:39.55 | bozonius | ah... |
| 01:40.14 | bozonius | yep, I'm in there. |
| 01:40.31 | gnarface | hmm. well it was worth double-checking |
| 01:40.39 | bozonius | along with the user "pulse" |
| 01:40.59 | bozonius | strange that this worked just days ago... |
| 01:41.02 | gnarface | and your alsamixer and pavucontrol settings are the same as in the Ubuntu one? |
| 01:41.20 | bozonius | but I seem to recall having a problem with sound in devuan (in VM) a while back and I figured out how to fix it. |
| 01:41.23 | gnarface | yea it's weird, and does suggest something you changed inadvertently disabled access... |
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| 01:41.46 | bozonius | has there been a recent kernel update? |
| 01:42.04 | bozonius | I may have done a apt-get upgrade and updated the kernel, which might explain it |
| 01:42.14 | Schallaven | might be |
| 01:42.20 | gnarface | in jessie? yea from like 3.16.43 to 3.16.44, i have trouble imagining that could be the problem but i guess stranger things have happened... |
| 01:42.21 | Schallaven | did not upgrade the kernel yet |
| 01:42.32 | bozonius | because of that kernel patch I referred to earlier |
| 01:43.00 | gnarface | oh, you know for sure that went into the stable kernel? |
| 01:43.17 | bozonius | eh... I kind of skimmed that one... |
| 01:43.28 | gnarface | it would be mentioned in a changelog somewhere... |
| 01:43.30 | bozonius | just kind of noticed the remark |
| 01:43.37 | bozonius | I can try to find it again... |
| 01:44.38 | bozonius | kernel is 3.16.0-4-amd64 |
| 01:45.19 | bozonius | so gnarface, you are up to 3.16.44 or after now? |
| 01:45.32 | gnarface | i think just that one |
| 01:45.42 | gnarface | maybe debu2 instead of debu1 or whatever |
| 01:45.44 | gnarface | but i'm not sure |
| 01:45.57 | gnarface | gotta boot a machine to check, sorry stand by |
| 01:48.14 | bozonius | https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86262 look for "the patch was designed for" |
| 01:48.35 | bozonius | but I have not read the entire thread. Also, this applies to pulse audio 3 |
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| 01:49.39 | fsmithred | ok, I did not have sound in my devuan vm, and I just fixed it. |
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| 01:50.22 | fsmithred | I removed pulseaudio and I added audacious, because I know how to set the output to use alsa. |
| 01:51.28 | bozonius | I don't remember how I fixed it last time on Devuan, but that's not how I fixed it last time. |
| 01:51.35 | bozonius | it was something else |
| 01:51.42 | bozonius | but I suppose I could try this |
| 01:53.03 | gnarface | what VM software are you guys using? |
| 01:53.06 | fsmithred | I always avoid pulseaudio. The few times I've tried to use it, I had bad luck. I must not be smart enough to figure it out. |
| 01:53.13 | bozonius | never used it. |
| 01:53.14 | fsmithred | virtualbox here. |
| 01:53.42 | bozonius | fsmithred: If you can't figure out pulseaudio, then it stands to reason why you are not a big systemd fan. Same author IIRC |
| 01:54.04 | fsmithred | yeah, I gather that he and I don't think the same. |
| 01:54.07 | bozonius | so tell me, how do I start it |
| 01:54.16 | bozonius | or me or millions of others... |
| 01:54.17 | fsmithred | start what? |
| 01:54.22 | bozonius | audacious |
| 01:54.26 | bozonius | I removed pulse |
| 01:54.34 | bozonius | but I've never used this |
| 01:54.41 | fsmithred | you're in devuan with the default xfce desktop? |
| 01:54.43 | bozonius | is it run from root or as my own user |
| 01:54.47 | bozonius | yep |
| 01:54.48 | fsmithred | user |
| 01:54.50 | bozonius | ok |
| 01:54.55 | fsmithred | in menu under multimedia |
| 01:55.06 | bozonius | does it require a daemon like pulse? |
| 01:55.09 | fsmithred | for some reason I did not get the gtk skin, so it looks like xmms |
| 01:55.11 | fsmithred | nope |
| 01:55.31 | fsmithred | but I had to go into preferences and change the audio device from pulse to alsa |
| 01:55.38 | fsmithred | right-click on it |
| 01:55.50 | fsmithred | I'm not sure what the menu calls it, but settings/preferences |
| 01:56.00 | fsmithred | unfortunately, my devuan is in Italian at the moment |
| 01:56.03 | bozonius | in audacious? |
| 01:56.10 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 01:56.41 | bozonius | looks to be in alsa alrady |
| 01:56.48 | fsmithred | cool |
| 01:56.53 | fsmithred | got a file to play? |
| 01:56.54 | bozonius | but how will this make,say, youtube vids play sound? |
| 01:57.21 | fsmithred | not any way that I can think of |
| 01:57.28 | bozonius | sooo |
| 01:57.34 | fsmithred | you need a browser plugin for that |
| 01:57.41 | bozonius | oh |
| 01:57.46 | fsmithred | what video player is installed? |
| 01:57.53 | gnarface | wait what? |
| 01:58.07 | bozonius | I have no idea. I am using the gneric firefox that ships with devuan 1.0 |
| 01:58.10 | fsmithred | yeah, he just changed the rules |
| 01:58.12 | fsmithred | vlc |
| 01:58.27 | fsmithred | make sure browser-plugin-vlc is installed |
| 01:58.31 | bozonius | who changed what rules? |
| 01:58.33 | fsmithred | at least I think you have vlc |
| 01:58.36 | fsmithred | you did |
| 01:58.41 | bozonius | how? |
| 01:58.42 | gnarface | ok i would strongly recommend debugging firefox/youtube separately from alsa |
| 01:58.46 | fsmithred | or maybe I got here late and missed the beginning |
| 01:58.57 | fsmithred | 1+ what gnarface just said |
| 01:59.09 | fsmithred | do you have an audio file you can play? |
| 01:59.11 | bozonius | but what rules did I change? |
| 01:59.17 | bozonius | I don't understand this |
| 01:59.29 | bozonius | I did not change any rules files that I know of |
| 01:59.31 | fsmithred | first you wanted sound to work, and then you wanted sound in your browser to work |
| 01:59.47 | fsmithred | they are not necessarily the same problem |
| 01:59.49 | bozonius | how is that a change in "rules?" |
| 02:00.09 | fsmithred | do you have an audio file you can play? |
| 02:00.14 | bozonius | sure |
| 02:00.19 | bozonius | a wav file? |
| 02:00.24 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 02:00.28 | fsmithred | anything |
| 02:00.33 | gnarface | bozonius: it's not your fault, but web video&audio is a whole separate ball of wax. by changing the task from "getting aplay to work" to "getting youtube to work" you moved the goal posts. |
| 02:01.09 | fsmithred | baby steps. get a sound first. |
| 02:01.29 | bozonius | I didn't really change them. It was what I was aftr all along. On other linuxes, I've not had to fight to get sound (most of the time...) |
| 02:01.45 | bozonius | if sound worked on one program, it worked pretty much everywhere |
| 02:02.03 | bozonius | never had to install a module or plugin for firefox to get sound before this, so it surprises me a bit |
| 02:02.14 | bozonius | is this related to HTML5 audio? |
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| 02:02.16 | gnarface | well some of fsmithred's information is out-of-date |
| 02:02.18 | bozonius | is that why? |
| 02:02.54 | fsmithred | what's out of date? I've hardly given any information. |
| 02:03.16 | bozonius | I mean, HTML5 is more recent than any sound issues I've had to debug or track down, so perhaps HTML5 requires special attention not required previously |
| 02:03.25 | gnarface | ok you guys gotta slow down |
| 02:03.29 | bozonius | It was just the use of "rules" that threw me |
| 02:03.32 | bozonius | sorry |
| 02:03.34 | gnarface | i can only answer one question at once |
| 02:03.38 | gnarface | and now you asked 4 |
| 02:03.48 | gnarface | you don't even know the one question you asked is actually several separate questions |
| 02:04.01 | gnarface | and the easier approach is to just backburner it all until speaker-test works |
| 02:04.27 | bozonius | speaker-test is a WINNER! |
| 02:04.40 | bozonius | I've got sound |
| 02:04.46 | Schallaven | \o/ |
| 02:04.48 | gnarface | firefox and youtube have all kinds of their own issues which may or may not be related (depending on version and youtube account settings to) missing plugins, extra plugins, and changes to firefox |
| 02:05.12 | bozonius | well,now youtube I know is a different beast. Propriety formats, at least in the past. |
| 02:05.30 | gnarface | for your future reference, this is why you use speaker-test first. and when someone says to test alsa you DO NOT use youtube videos as your go-to unit test. |
| 02:05.34 | bozonius | special drivers, etc., though recent releases of FF seem to work without any user mods |
| 02:05.45 | bozonius | I didn't |
| 02:05.46 | gnarface | ok so here's what happened |
| 02:05.59 | bozonius | I ran speaker-test, just as asked here |
| 02:07.01 | gnarface | at one point the mozilla-plugin-vlc or whatever it's called (a vlc plugin extension) was the primary viable way to play embedded video/audio in firefox. for some content it still is. i assume that's why that's fsmithred told you that you needed it. for youtube in HTML5 that's not strictly necessary anymore. however... |
| 02:07.31 | bozonius | nods |
| 02:07.32 | gnarface | ... you MAY have gotten the cisco plugin installed too, which is necessary on some windows installs but is known to cause issues in linux. |
| 02:07.43 | gnarface | so in some cases fixing it requires REMOVING that |
| 02:07.45 | gnarface | now |
| 02:07.48 | gnarface | there's more |
| 02:08.00 | gnarface | your youtube account settings may still be feeding you flash video |
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| 02:08.17 | gnarface | and if you have flash installed but it's an old or buggy version... who even knows what their fallback behavior is |
| 02:08.42 | gnarface | so you do in the case of youtube, also have to verify it's even trying to use HTML5 and not flash or vlc |
| 02:08.57 | gnarface | but wait, THERE'S ONE MORE ROADBLOCK |
| 02:09.06 | bozonius | yep. Yep. Been there with flash. But in the case of youtube, I don't think I even have an account with them. Go ahead... |
| 02:09.11 | Schallaven | remove flash; youtube works with HTML5 now |
| 02:09.11 | gnarface | firefox and firefox-esr now both exist separately in the repos |
| 02:09.31 | gnarface | one of the major differences is that the new firefox has switched to *REQUIRING* pulseaudio |
| 02:09.47 | gnarface | a problem that you may not have noticed before even if pulseaudio was installed but alsa was working |
| 02:09.51 | bozonius | slaps himself |
| 02:10.23 | fsmithred | looks like 54.0 is only in ceres now |
| 02:10.28 | gnarface | now, there exists a userland tool called "apulse" which is just a wrapper you can use to call programs that require pulse and fool them into thinking they have pulse available when really you only have alsa |
| 02:10.41 | bozonius | new ff has switched to *requiring* another of HIS creations... kind of like the rest of this *nix world... |
| 02:11.02 | bozonius | It's a shim? |
| 02:11.25 | bozonius | I see a growing market in shim making... |
| 02:11.42 | bozonius | as long as the HOLY ONE keeps cranking out software |
| 02:11.52 | gnarface | yea, i guess so. it's in the lines of an older tool called 'aoss' that existed back when firefox switched from oss to alsa. now that we covered all that, at least you are aware of how many more potential roadblocks are involved in youtube videos. that's why everyone cringes when we're trying to debug alsa and you bring that up |
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| 02:12.17 | bozonius | so sorry. |
| 02:12.22 | gnarface | no worries |
| 02:12.35 | fsmithred | gnarface, thanks for explaining |
| 02:13.05 | gnarface | no problem |
| 02:13.33 | bozonius | well, guys, especially you gnarface, I really appreciate your dissecting that for us. I was familiar with a lot of it, but wasn't aware that so much lingering vestiges were still around... I figured the world had migrated on from them. |
| 02:14.09 | gnarface | there's also the issue where youtube will apparently maliciously ignore HTML5 capability in competing browsers. though, last i checked, they had grudgingly fixed this for Opera right before they scuttled Opera |
| 02:14.49 | bozonius | reminds me of yet another software outfit... hmm. who was that? adobe? |
| 02:15.08 | bozonius | but nvm |
| 02:16.06 | gnarface | ok so earlier you asked what kernel i have on jessie |
| 02:17.23 | gnarface | use "uname -a" to check your kernel version and note that the package name (linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64) actually won't be updated for minor revision changes. so dpkg says i have linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 installed but uname -a shows me that package actually contains kernel 3.16.43-2+deb8u2 |
| 02:18.04 | gnarface | the part before the "-" is the upstream version, the part after is debian's package version |
| 02:18.17 | bozonius | right. 43 same as yours |
| 02:18.19 | gnarface | so this is debian's second packaging of 3.16.43 |
| 02:18.34 | gnarface | but the FOURTH repackaging of 3.16 |
| 02:18.40 | gnarface | (note the package name has -4 in it) |
| 02:18.42 | bozonius | right. That follows the convention I am familiar with. |
| 02:18.57 | bozonius | got it. |
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| 02:19.44 | bozonius | so, let me ask this: What version of the kernel comes with the install? |
| 02:19.55 | gnarface | it was 3.2 i think |
| 02:19.59 | bozonius | I'm trying to figure out if I've been upgraded. |
| 02:20.19 | bozonius | I did a network install, maybe 2 weeks ago, not sure how long ago |
| 02:20.29 | bozonius | and applied all the updates then |
| 02:20.35 | gnarface | ii linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 3.16.43-2+deb8u2 amd64 Linux 3.16 for 64-bit PCs |
| 02:20.50 | gnarface | i just checked, that's the latest one for jessie |
| 02:21.59 | gnarface | i think depending on your installation options, it may be possible to have 3.2 installed but not get updated to 3.16 automatically if you don't also have the linux-image-amd64 metapackage installed |
| 02:22.20 | gnarface | and if you ever enabled backports, it's possible you got 4.7 or 4.9 even |
| 02:22.52 | bozonius | I did enable backports for Thunderbird. |
| 02:23.19 | bozonius | (though that upgrade did not help me with the problem I was having; I needed to modify my gmail config at google, but that's a different story) |
| 02:24.30 | bozonius | so it seems I will need a plugin for browser? |
| 02:25.51 | fsmithred | 3.16 is default kernel in jessie |
| 02:26.05 | bozonius | bbs |
| 02:29.05 | gnarface | bozonius: screenshot the firefox view of about:plugins for us |
| 02:30.47 | gnarface | i have the cisco, vlc, flash, icedtea and java, but i've disabled all except the VLC one |
| 02:31.43 | gnarface | the cisco one was capping youtube video max res for me i think. it wouldn't shock me if it was breaking audio support too though |
| 02:34.05 | bozonius | bak |
| 02:34.15 | fsmithred | that seems to be the only one in the default install |
| 02:34.28 | fsmithred | state: disabled, but I didn't do that |
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| 02:48.49 | bozonius | https://filebin.ca/3SHGHT2uhf8r |
| 02:50.59 | bozonius | I hope that helps |
| 02:51.18 | gnarface | bozonius: well it makes it clear that you don't have any plugins enabled... but it's been so long since i did NOT have the VLC web plugin installed that i honestly can't tell you for sure you don't need it for audio on youtube |
| 02:51.34 | bozonius | I could try it |
| 02:52.10 | gnarface | bozonius: maybe go with fsmithred's first advice and install it. i doubt it could possibly break anything. it might unexpectedly make things work though, which could be just as bad... |
| 02:52.41 | fsmithred | easy enough to try without it and then add it |
| 02:52.56 | fsmithred | just restart browser |
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| 02:56.34 | gnarface | the package is called "mozilla-plugin-vlc" here on ceres. |
| 02:56.47 | gnarface | it's labeled "transitional dummy package" though |
| 02:56.53 | bozonius | https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=137860 |
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| 02:57.27 | bozonius | no such package; do I need to enable a repo? |
| 02:57.55 | gnarface | bozonius: it should be in the main repo, but the name could have changed since jessie. which firefox do you have? did you accidentally get 54 from backports perhaps? |
| 02:58.13 | fsmithred | browser-plugin-vlc |
| 02:58.34 | gnarface | ah yes, that's it ^ |
| 02:58.34 | bozonius | esr- 52.2 |
| 02:59.07 | gnarface | ok, that's what i'm using here |
| 02:59.12 | gnarface | 52.2.0esr-1 |
| 02:59.47 | gnarface | and yea, i can verify that i'm getting audio in HTML5 youtube videos |
| 02:59.52 | gnarface | *without* pulseaudio though |
| 03:00.04 | fsmithred | same here |
| 03:00.06 | gnarface | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWaSYnSrh_8&list=RDtWaSYnSrh_8 |
| 03:00.25 | fsmithred | actually, I'm getting it without the vlc plugin |
| 03:00.48 | gnarface | it's enabled here but i had been assuming it's not in use... just wasn't sure |
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| 03:01.13 | bozonius | after intalling vlc plugin I am getting sound in ff |
| 03:01.24 | gnarface | O_o |
| 03:01.29 | gnarface | okay then |
| 03:01.38 | gnarface | what other packages did it pull in as dependencies? |
| 03:01.46 | bozonius | maybe just the mere presence of the vlc plugin makes it work? |
| 03:02.25 | bozonius | (j/k) |
| 03:02.30 | gnarface | i would be more likely to bet that it pulled in libasound2 or alsa-oss or something |
| 03:02.42 | bozonius | or maybe, it loaded a driver? |
| 03:03.05 | bozonius | try removing the plugin, see if you still have sound? |
| 03:03.16 | gnarface | hmm |
| 03:03.35 | gnarface | did it not pull in other packages? |
| 03:03.36 | bozonius | I'm curious |
| 03:03.36 | fsmithred | did you try the browser after you got audio working and before adding the plugin? |
| 03:04.00 | bozonius | the plugin was automatically loaded in ff |
| 03:04.14 | bozonius | but it is set to "ask" not always on |
| 03:04.34 | fsmithred | but did you test the browser before you installed the vlc plugin? |
| 03:04.49 | bozonius | gnarface: no. |
| 03:05.07 | bozonius | But perhaps any dependencies were already installed, b/c of my other packages? |
| 03:05.17 | gnarface | it could have loaded a driver in theory, but i doubt it, and speaker-test wouldn't have worked anyway |
| 03:05.24 | bozonius | bbs |
| 03:05.33 | gnarface | hmmmm |
| 03:05.43 | gnarface | well, i still get sound even with that vlc plugin disabled |
| 03:05.50 | gnarface | so that's a mystery |
| 03:07.22 | bozonius | bak |
| 03:07.33 | bozonius | now try removing it entirely from your system? |
| 03:07.40 | bozonius | (I mean, if you want to) |
| 03:08.24 | gnarface | tempting, but honestly now i'm scared to |
| 03:08.26 | fsmithred | audacious got installed and pulled in a bunch of stuff |
| 03:10.34 | gnarface | hmm |
| 03:10.41 | fsmithred | youtube still works after removing audacious and all the extras that came with it |
| 03:10.50 | gnarface | bozonius: what do you get for dpkg -L mozilla-plugin-vlc |
| 03:11.09 | gnarface | on ceres there's nothing in it anymore but the changelog |
| 03:11.10 | fsmithred | broswer-plugin-vlc |
| 03:11.14 | gnarface | er, right |
| 03:11.26 | gnarface | yea, bozonius i meant dpkg -L browser-plugin-vlc |
| 03:12.06 | gnarface | i'm starting to wonder if it's not something weirder, like something the postinstall scripts in the package fix somehow |
| 03:12.23 | gnarface | i can't even speculate what though |
| 03:12.43 | fsmithred | in my experience, removing pulseaudio makes things work normally again |
| 03:12.54 | bozonius | https://pastebin.com/m4VHSnTU |
| 03:13.13 | gnarface | changelog and one plugin file |
| 03:13.31 | gnarface | the plot thickens |
| 03:13.41 | bozonius | would this shed light? I know we are past ff 51 now, but maybe there is some lingering effect... https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=137860 |
| 03:14.34 | gnarface | nah, since i'm using 52 too, this wouldn't explain it. and besides, HTML5 isn't supposed to be using it anyway |
| 03:15.06 | gnarface | but i admit i also amputated pulseaudio a long time ago because i couldn't figure it out |
| 03:15.47 | gnarface | although at the time nobody had told me it has it's own replacement for alsamixer (pavucontrol i think it's called) |
| 03:16.00 | bozonius | yep. pavucontrol |
| 03:16.10 | bozonius | used to work, even on devuan... |
| 03:16.32 | bozonius | remember the context here, too. It's running in a vm |
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| 03:16.39 | gnarface | right |
| 03:16.47 | gnarface | though speaker-test worked in the VM for you, right? |
| 03:16.58 | bozonius | not that it should matter to the user, but those messages about the timer disable |
| 03:17.03 | bozonius | yes, it did |
| 03:17.12 | bozonius | weird indeed... |
| 03:20.07 | gnarface | the timer issue does suggest something is weird but i don't know if it's expected or not |
| 03:22.39 | bozonius | well, I did do SOME reading about it, but it looks like a fix is still in the works. |
| 03:23.05 | gnarface | being in a VM it seems like such things might be expected but fixable. none of that explains to me why speaker-test works though. |
| 03:23.35 | bozonius | You knw what, as a favor to you, I will create a new devuan 1.0 VM to play with. This time, though, I'll checkpoint additions and deletions of packages and other "interesting" points along the way |
| 03:23.52 | bozonius | It'll take me a little while to do it, but I've got space and time right now |
| 03:24.20 | bozonius | first thing I want to know is, does it work "out of the box?" (without any mods) |
| 03:24.38 | bozonius | I'll do the same net install as before |
| 03:25.03 | bozonius | and then see if upgrades might be the culprit, and which ones |
| 03:25.36 | bozonius | what do you think? too much work, or worthwhile? |
| 03:25.52 | bozonius | b/c I swear I had sound when I first built the VM |
| 03:26.09 | bozonius | well, not exactly at first, but at some point thereafter |
| 03:26.20 | bozonius | something I did... what the heck was that again? |
| 03:26.27 | bozonius | shakes his head... |
| 03:26.52 | gnarface | bozonius: yes, worth it. try a fresh jessie install in the vm, and fully update it but *don't* add backports before you test audio in everything for which you care about audio playback |
| 03:27.06 | bozonius | right |
| 03:27.14 | gnarface | bozonius: it's possible some library version mismatch caused this |
| 03:27.40 | gnarface | backports packages just aren't tested as thoroughly as the stable ones |
| 03:28.06 | gnarface | sometimes you run into weird corner cases with different combinations of libraries from different overlapping eras |
| 03:28.20 | bozonius | sure, I agree |
| 03:28.50 | gnarface | then if you add stuff from backports, take a careful inventory of what gets added/changed/removed so you have a shorter list of suspects |
| 03:29.21 | gnarface | at this point for all i know it could just be a one-line change to some pulseaudio config file |
| 03:29.39 | gnarface | or a symlink in the alternatives |
| 03:29.53 | bozonius | I compared my /etc/pulse directory to a saved copy of /etc/pulse from my prior install |
| 03:29.59 | bozonius | one thing I note |
| 03:30.27 | bozonius | this VM is using LVM2 partitions for file systems, whereas the original one did not |
| 03:30.31 | bozonius | ah... |
| 03:30.48 | bozonius | I had another VM before... maybe THAT is what was different! |
| 03:30.56 | bozonius | (I totally forgot about that...) |
| 03:31.54 | bozonius | I wanted to use LVM2 because it's a pain to manage disk space without it. So I first tried adding new partitions to the originalVM with the idea I would migrate the original partitions to the new ones, but I had problems for some reason. |
| 03:32.06 | bozonius | I decide it would just be easier to re-install from scratch. |
| 03:32.33 | bozonius | I COMPLETELY forgot I did this! |
| 03:32.50 | bozonius | waits to be pummelled |
| 03:33.22 | bozonius | what a do-do! |
| 03:33.33 | fsmithred | I wouldn't expect lvm to have anything to do with audio problems. |
| 03:33.50 | bozonius | No, I dare say I agree |
| 03:33.58 | bozonius | but |
| 03:34.11 | fsmithred | yeah a different installation might be different |
| 03:34.12 | fsmithred | lol |
| 03:34.20 | bozonius | still, there was something I did to that original VM to get sound, with the help of folks here |
| 03:34.48 | gnarface | hmmmm |
| 03:35.02 | gnarface | wasn't it something you changed on the host though? |
| 03:35.04 | gnarface | not in the guest? |
| 03:35.04 | bozonius | so sorry guys... I feel like an idiot. That's important. |
| 03:35.21 | bozonius | I don't remember |
| 03:35.40 | fsmithred | I don't recall if I ever tested sound in a default install |
| 03:35.41 | bozonius | but it seems to me it was pretty minor |
| 03:35.50 | fsmithred | I must have at some point. |
| 03:35.54 | gnarface | it's alright, it happens to the best of us. but eventually you learn from these situations the importance of being detail oriented when you're setting stuff up... |
| 03:35.56 | bozonius | ok, you guys going to be around for a bit? |
| 03:36.02 | fsmithred | no |
| 03:36.05 | fsmithred | sleep time here |
| 03:36.19 | bozonius | well, thanks for your input and help, and have a good night |
| 03:36.28 | fsmithred | I'll stay logged in |
| 03:37.05 | bozonius | the importance of being MEMORY-oriented, remembering stuff... |
| 03:37.07 | fsmithred | so you can talk to me if you want, but I won't answer. |
| 03:37.19 | bozonius | I used to keep a log of everything I did to my systems, just for this reason |
| 03:37.23 | bozonius | then I got lazy |
| 03:37.32 | fsmithred | spiral-bound is a good memory technology |
| 03:37.53 | fsmithred | g'night |
| 03:37.54 | bozonius | yes. Paper-based products can be useful for a myriad of things |
| 03:38.02 | gnarface | i'll be gone momentarily too, but i'll probably be back in a couple hours. either way i also stay logged in, so i'll eventually get anything you type here. |
| 03:38.07 | bozonius | like ballots... but alas, we won't go off there... |
| 03:38.16 | bozonius | ok, I appreciate it. |
| 03:38.36 | gnarface | np, have a good one. |
| 03:38.38 | bozonius | Do you think I should go LVM or not as in my first VM of Devuan? |
| 03:39.08 | gnarface | i don't see any point of using LVM but it's intended as a convenience. i'm just not really afraid of resizing or even relocating partitions and filesystems |
| 03:39.32 | bozonius | I'm not afraid either. It's simply the ease of use. |
| 03:40.02 | bozonius | Actually, I was much more afraid of USING lvm originally. But once I understood it, I found it great |
| 03:40.05 | gnarface | in a VM it seems doubly redundant to me actually, but if the point was you wanted to test a config, or just learn about LVM, i could see a point in that. |
| 03:40.21 | bozonius | redundant? |
| 03:40.31 | bozonius | I am not using the RAID feature, if that's what you mean |
| 03:40.51 | gnarface | the truth is i've never even tried it |
| 03:41.04 | gnarface | LVM, that is |
| 03:41.09 | bozonius | well, it's certainly not a requirement. But sysadmins seem to love it. |
| 03:41.46 | gnarface | well what i hear about it is that it provides convenient partition resizing tools |
| 03:42.06 | bozonius | the partition with /boot must be a regular (non-LVM) partition, unless grub is extensively configured to load the lvm drivers at boot time. |
| 03:42.08 | gnarface | or rather, subdivides one large partition dynamically through something that pretends to be a partition |
| 03:42.41 | bozonius | more than that. You can also migrate from physical disk to physical disk, and migrate to different machines and servers. |
| 03:42.53 | bozonius | you can release unused space rather than waste it. |
| 03:43.00 | bozonius | lots of advantages. |
| 03:43.16 | bozonius | there's a learning curve of course. but it is not too difficult |
| 03:43.27 | gnarface | right but those things you just listed |
| 03:43.31 | gnarface | i could do without LVM |
| 03:43.43 | bozonius | sure. Just makes things simpler. |
| 03:44.14 | gnarface | i learned how, and became quite comfortable with it by the time LVM existed |
| 03:44.27 | gnarface | so to me, it would be more work learning to use LVM |
| 03:44.55 | bozonius | I'm going to get started on this project. Thanks again for all you do. |
| 03:45.19 | bozonius | I'll post in a while with results... that is, if I can stay awake. I was up early this morning. |
| 03:45.40 | gnarface | you're welcome. good luck! |
| 03:46.12 | gnarface | we do want to hear about what you find out |
| 03:47.05 | gnarface | i can't imagine LVM to be actually the issue |
| 03:47.32 | gnarface | but perhaps you'll realize you did something else different too... |
| 03:48.08 | gnarface | oh and try "expert" mode |
| 03:48.26 | gnarface | at installation time |
| 03:52.11 | bozonius | for what reason? I HAD to use the manual partitioning for the current VM because it was the only way to get the lvm file systems to install to. |
| 04:03.38 | gnarface | it just might ask more useful questions |
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| 05:02.35 | bozonius | gnarface: first results of my experiment. Sounds works upon install to non-LVM VM. |
| 05:03.00 | bozonius | I took a snapshot just before first boot to the installed system. |
| 05:05.05 | bozonius | pulseaudio version 5.0-13+devuan2 |
| 05:06.14 | bozonius | interestingly, the same message about the timer-based scheduler being disabled still apears in the syslog! |
| 05:07.14 | bozonius | I'm wondering what else to try before making any mods. I opted for the standard setup where /usr /var and /opt have their own fs |
| 05:07.32 | bozonius | I did not heed your advice to use the expert mode this time. |
| 05:11.32 | bozonius | cold reboot does not affect sound. |
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| 05:11.41 | bozonius | (just for kicks) |
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| 07:26.32 | kyusho | hello devuan team |
| 07:27.49 | kyusho | I installed devuan on a raspberry pi 1, i get armel not armhf. why so? what are the consequences? |
| 07:28.44 | Humpelstilzchen | kyusho: https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi |
| 07:29.15 | kyusho | thank you |
| 07:29.23 | Humpelstilzchen | in short: rpi1 does not support the armhf instruction set |
| 07:29.44 | Humpelstilzchen | which is armv7 iirc |
| 07:30.00 | kyusho | so it is for my usecase no less perfomance because of missing inst set on my cpu |
| 07:30.21 | kyusho | right ? |
| 07:30.47 | specing | and what is your use case? |
| 07:30.53 | detha | depends on your use case. ef/hf is just about floating point |
| 07:30.58 | specing | Will you throw it into garbage? |
| 07:31.04 | specing | Because that is where it belongs |
| 07:31.07 | specing | lol |
| 07:31.32 | kyusho | haha. a small webserver at edis.at |
| 07:31.37 | detha | specing: the raspberry I use to type this on says it's offended |
| 07:31.45 | kyusho | there is a free pi hosting |
| 07:31.52 | specing | detha: good |
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| 07:35.03 | kyusho | bye all |
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| 08:13.44 | gnarface | bozonius: that's really weird. assuming you did a full "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" already and it still works, i can't think of anything. just be really careful about what you get from backports this time i guess. |
| 08:14.43 | gnarface | bozonius: maybe you got something pulled in from backports accidentally that broke pulseaudio |
| 08:16.09 | gnarface | bozonius: it still seems too weird to me that LVM might be the cause to stop looking for others |
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| 11:12.28 | parazyd | https://twitter.com/Zagurito/status/882517127579787269 |
| 11:14.16 | MinceR | they got the logo wrong |
| 11:23.21 | grok | https://github.com/systemdsucks/systemd-free-license/blob/master/systemd-free-license.txt |
| 11:23.27 | grok | that violates Freedom 0. |
| 11:23.42 | grok | Which is a bummer. |
| 11:25.54 | KatolaZ | grok: I think it's just a pun :) |
| 11:26.10 | grok | ah fair :) |
| 11:26.28 | grok | (pestering parazyd about the mirroring now) |
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| 13:52.39 | _stephen_ | Anyone else get an email this morning about their DNG list membership being disabled due to excessive bounces? |
| 13:56.43 | _stephen_ | The address in question is @gmail.com so it seems odd that there would ever be any bounces, ever. |
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| 14:06.22 | fsmithred | _stephen_, yes, I got one. Also on gmail here. |
| 14:07.03 | fsmithred | jaromil, ^^^ Any idea what's going on? |
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| 14:50.17 | aitor | hi |
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| 14:57.26 | aitor | i'm upgrading to ascii |
| 15:04.31 | rrq | _stephen_: fsmithred: I got one too; also gmail. |
| 15:07.20 | golinux | There was too much email this morning. Most of it went directly to trash. |
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| 15:56.21 | topro | hi there. seems ascii is now tracking stretch instead of testing, right? no more new packages coming into ascii over here |
| 15:57.29 | parazyd | yep |
| 15:57.34 | KatolaZ | topro: ascii has always tracked stretch |
| 15:57.46 | parazyd | it hasn't :p |
| 15:58.07 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 15:58.08 | golinux | Short term memory failure . . . |
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| 16:00.54 | topro | KatolaZ: as parazyd said, it hasn't. the days after stretch release when debian testing was re-opened for new packages, ascii was tracking testing for sure |
| 16:01.15 | KatolaZ | ok topro |
| 16:01.19 | KatolaZ | that was a glitch |
| 16:01.25 | KatolaZ | and has been fixed |
| 16:01.54 | topro | but if ascii is now tracking stretch, will there soon be a new devuan branch tracking debian testing, again? |
| 16:02.25 | KatolaZ | there will be topro |
| 16:02.38 | KatolaZ | hopefully soon |
| 16:02.52 | topro | ok thanks, that was the answer I was looking for ;) |
| 16:05.35 | topro | BTW, are there thoughts of devuan growing more independant from debian, i.e. making development at its own pace, or is it intended to keep tracking debian for the time being |
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| 16:11.23 | KatolaZ | topro: nothing is decided, but I guess devuan will keep tracking debian for the time being |
| 16:12.38 | topro | well, I think I do understand the reasons for this. just curious where the journey is supposed to go |
| 16:13.05 | KatolaZ | topro: maintaining 15000 source packages is hard |
| 16:13.12 | KatolaZ | it requires a whole bunch of maintainers |
| 16:13.34 | KatolaZ | that devuan does not have at her disposal, at the moment |
| 16:13.40 | fsmithred | at this point, I don't think any options have been ruled out |
| 16:14.09 | fsmithred | we can't predict what others will do, and we still depend on those others |
| 16:14.50 | fsmithred | as crazy as debian has become, I don't know if there's a limit to how crazy they could be in the future. |
| 16:15.31 | golinux | cynwulf posted to DUF today echoing that sentiment |
| 16:16.05 | golinux | the usual gloom and doom . . . |
| 16:16.11 | fsmithred | wow, haven't heard from him lately |
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| 16:23.48 | aitor | hi again |
| 16:24.04 | fsmithred | hi |
| 16:24.06 | TwistedFate | I think I may have a serious problem |
| 16:24.19 | TwistedFate | I recently started getting Hardware Errors on my terminal |
| 16:24.39 | TwistedFate | Could someone please take a look at my kernel.log? I am scared :( |
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| 16:24.43 | fsmithred | what errors? |
| 16:25.33 | aitor | Centurion_Dan: are you there? |
| 16:25.58 | aitor | i'm trying to use debmirror in ascii for debian-installer, and i get an error: |
| 16:26.09 | TwistedFate | fsmithred: this https://paste.debian.net/hidden/3adee89b/ |
| 16:26.20 | TwistedFate | i noticed it happens when i use virtual machines |
| 16:26.26 | TwistedFate | that was kvm/qemu |
| 16:26.30 | aitor | GET http://ftp.auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/main/installer-i386/current/images/MD5SUMS ==> 404 Not Found (1s) |
| 16:26.40 | aitor | is it possible to ignore it? |
| 16:26.47 | KatolaZ | aitor: there is no debian-installer in ascii, afaict |
| 16:27.11 | KatolaZ | and in any case, debian-installer in under /devuan not under /merged |
| 16:27.21 | aitor | ok, thanks |
| 16:28.04 | aitor | KatolaZ: http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/main/debian-installer/binary-i386/ |
| 16:28.23 | TwistedFate | fsmithred: and this with virtualbox https://paste.debian.net/hidden/bfbd896c/ |
| 16:28.25 | aitor | the .udeb packages exist |
| 16:29.57 | aitor | Ooops, i commented the line number 1097 in /usr/bin/debmirror, that is: |
| 16:29.59 | aitor | di_add_files() if @di_dists; |
| 16:30.08 | fsmithred | TwistedFate, I've never seen those errors before, but here's an explanation: https://askubuntu.com/questions/605369/mce-hardware-error-machine-check-events-logged-appears-in-syslog-what-sho |
| 16:30.29 | aitor | and now it works, the packages are downloading |
| 16:30.53 | aitor | the sources of debian-installer must be downloaded directly for git, i think |
| 16:32.17 | aitor | i want to build d-i for live images based on ascii, including linux-heads' modules |
| 16:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | aitor: http://www.advancedclustering.com/act_kb/what-are-machine-check-exceptions-or-mce/ |
| 16:36.38 | aitor | DocScrutinizer05: which is the relationship between debian-installer and that company? |
| 16:36.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 16:37.22 | fsmithred | mce errors were from TwistedFate ^^^ |
| 16:37.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is the relation between installers and mce? |
| 16:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, sorry |
| 16:38.18 | fsmithred | is it odd that the errors would show up in a VM as well as in a hardware install? |
| 16:38.29 | aitor | the attached link points to a company's website: advanced clustering technologies, inc |
| 16:38.50 | fsmithred | aitor, that link was meant for someone else |
| 16:39.02 | fsmithred | two conversations going on at once |
| 16:39.07 | fsmithred | brb |
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| 16:39.25 | aitor | i supposed :) |
| 16:41.08 | aitor | downloaded it, need to go! |
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| 16:44.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: ((is it odd)) no, since the VM also runs on a real hardware CPU in the end |
| 16:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually the difference is the privilege aka DOM the VM kernel runs in, I'd say |
| 16:47.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | while genuine systems run kernel in DOM0, the VM kernel runs in a DOMU |
| 16:48.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm talking right outa my rear thoigh |
| 16:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Dom0 is Xen specific but the situation is similar for other visualization solutions |
| 16:53.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn spell correction. s/visualization/virtualization/ |
| 16:55.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it's not like the usual virtualization would run the VM on a virtual emulated CPU |
| 16:55.18 | fsmithred | do not let machines choose your words for you |
| 16:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had a typo in virtualization and used spellcheck correction |
| 16:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I hadn't, only the spellcheck doesn't know the word |
| 16:57.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, I can't make sense from the particular MCE error |
| 16:57.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems clear it's no ECC RAM error |
| 16:58.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I read "APIC" which might be IRQ related |
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| 17:07.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm https://communities.intel.com/message/243118#243118 (and no, APIC seems a red herring) |
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| 17:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe rather this? https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/1/4/559 |
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| 17:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/1/27/477 >> With that new firmware version, it looks like that the firmware has been fixed and Linux does not report any MCEs.<< |
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| 17:23.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | we could only know for sure after OP provided full MCE logs |
| 17:24.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | TwistedFate: ^^^ |
| 17:24.42 | TwistedFate | DocScrutinizer05: yeah but im not using dell |
| 17:24.49 | TwistedFate | its a desktop machine |
| 17:25.32 | TwistedFate | also, that firmware he mentions "XPS_9360_1.3.2.exe" |
| 17:25.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | the BIOS (in combination with CPU?) being the culprit, whatever we need /var/log/mcelog or the alternative from mcelog executable |
| 17:26.03 | TwistedFate | DocScrutinizer05: I just installed mcelog |
| 17:26.16 | TwistedFate | what should I do now? |
| 17:26.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not an expert for this, I suggest you post to LKML |
| 17:26.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitely not devuan related |
| 17:26.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks like a kernel issue |
| 17:27.33 | fsmithred | TwistedFate, keep running and see if something shows up in log. Meanwhile, if you can test hardware, do it. |
| 17:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, there been some suggestions on what to do, in above thread |
| 17:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need somebody to decode mcelog. I'm not that person I guess |
| 17:30.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | you *could* try an 'ancient' system with an old kernel and see if same problem exists there. Which leads us to "when did it start?" |
| 17:30.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | on kernel update? or was it there from beginning? or started out of nothing? |
| 17:31.43 | TwistedFate | DocScrutinizer05: it only started happening few days ago when i tried using kvm/qemu and virtualbox |
| 17:31.54 | TwistedFate | also, i did have a recent kernel upgrade |
| 17:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | reset BIOS settings to default. Run memcheck. Swap PSU. Find somebody capable to decode mcelog |
| 17:32.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | in no particular order of priority |
| 17:32.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd start testing older kernel |
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| 17:33.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not VM related for sure |
| 17:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least not directly. Maybe via manfatory kernel update for the VM host |
| 17:36.01 | TwistedFate | hmmm, i wonder if it could be the power issue |
| 17:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | PSUs are often cause of bizarre problems |
| 17:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had a funny one with my RAID timing out on both drives. Culprit was a >-cable for power, worth a 40ct |
| 17:37.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | aY-cable |
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| 17:37.40 | clemens3 | x |
| 17:38.04 | bozonius | gnarface: This new VM has no LVM. And I have not yet done any updates. I will snapshot the VM and then apply updates now. |
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| 17:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | TwistedFate: anyway when you got mcelogs, please let me have a peek. Just for curiosity |
| 17:46.31 | TwistedFate | DocScrutinizer05: sure thing |
| 17:46.47 | bozonius | gnarface: check this out, from last night's logwatch: https://pastebin.com/aeXKLXeu |
| 17:47.21 | bozonius | that one message seems to hint at a problem in media playback perhaps? |
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| 18:08.56 | gnarface | bozonius: the only time i've seen soft lockups on my hardware it was due to the hardware being faulty. eventually it would fail to recover from a soft lockup. it would happen less often if i wasn't monitoring the temperature sensors, but ultimately persisted unless i ran the CPU at half speed (approaching 500 days of uptime since then) |
| 18:09.16 | gnarface | bozonius: it's weird but i can't imagine this has any impact on why you can't get sound out of youtube either though. |
| 18:11.18 | gnarface | bozonius: i'm not familiar with "MediaP1~back" but if it's segfault coincides with the CPU soft-lockup it could just be coincidence |
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| 18:32.12 | gnarface | bozonius: i forgot to ask last night though, when you were backing up stuff from the old install you said that worked and you were trying to remember what you did to it, check /etc/modules and /etc/modprobe.d for changes |
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| 19:02.19 | bozonius | gnarface: I doubt sensors would have much to do with anything here, given we are talking about a VM, not actual hardware. The only thing I could think of is if some virtual hardware driver were buggy. |
| 19:03.13 | bozonius | gnarface: CPU soft-lockup? So you think that the sound problem is related to a CPU lockup of some kind? |
| 19:03.44 | gnarface | bozonius: no, that's what i'm saying. i really don't think it's related. |
| 19:04.14 | gnarface | bozonius: if it were, you'd get the soft lock up every time you tried to play youtube videos. and that wouldn't explain why speaker-test works fine without causing it. |
| 19:04.27 | bozonius | I wish I could undo the uninstall of pulse and install of audacious, getting all the dependencies, etc |
| 19:04.35 | gnarface | you can |
| 19:04.56 | bozonius | but speaker-test only started working after installing audacious, remember? |
| 19:05.17 | gnarface | oh, i assumed that was user error |
| 19:05.36 | bozonius | no. I think there were at least 4 of us all trying to chat at the same time... |
| 19:05.40 | bozonius | some confusion then |
| 19:05.55 | gnarface | audacious may have pulled in packages you were missing though. if you didn't have alsa-base, alsa-util, and alsa-tools i wouldn't expect anything to work actually. i also use alsa-oss in some situations still. |
| 19:06.17 | gnarface | you can remove any package though completely with: apt-get purge [package name] |
| 19:06.38 | bozonius | I had not made many changes to Devuan 1.0. So I expect that alsa-* was all there. |
| 19:06.39 | gnarface | ("apt-get remove [package name]" will leave behind configs) |
| 19:06.50 | bozonius | thanks, I'll do that |
| 19:06.59 | gnarface | you can verify installed packges with: dpkg -l |
| 19:07.12 | bozonius | but purge may not get rid of configs in my local directory, right? |
| 19:07.19 | gnarface | uh |
| 19:07.38 | gnarface | i think not, but i'm honestly not sure. back them up first if they're valuable |
| 19:07.55 | gnarface | or just don't use purge |
| 19:08.03 | bozonius | I did a manifest of packages on both VMs for comparison. The trouble is until I clear out audacious and set pulse back, I won't be able to get a clean diff |
| 19:08.05 | bozonius | NO! |
| 19:08.25 | bozonius | I want to get rid of SYSTEM configs. What I'm saying is that tools like pulseaudio AlSO create local configs |
| 19:08.31 | bozonius | first time you run them, e.g. |
| 19:08.55 | gnarface | ah. yes, that's true but you know without pulseaudio installed, it's local configs in $HOME will probably be harmless |
| 19:09.49 | bozonius | what I'm saying is that audacious may have made local configs, and maybe programs look for a variety of tool configs to "sense" which ones the user wants to use, or something like that, idk |
| 19:10.14 | bozonius | so if lingering configs from audacious are still there... but not likely I guess |
| 19:10.19 | bozonius | to do any harm |
| 19:10.55 | bozonius | Let me put pulse back in the VM in question and then I'll compare package lists with the test VM |
| 19:11.15 | bozonius | the sound, btw, is nearly perfect, even under VM. No stuttering or the like. |
| 19:11.29 | bozonius | I mean, in the test VM |
| 19:11.37 | bozonius | anyway... bbs |
| 19:11.47 | bozonius | (and thanks for your ongoing support with this.) |
| 19:12.11 | gnarface | what you're hypothesizing about stray pulseaudio configs is plausible in general, but i think highly unlikely in this case. i still have a ~/.pulse with contents years old, now that i'm looking at it, and it's not causing problems. |
| 19:12.53 | gnarface | actually something updated a symlink in there |
| 19:12.58 | gnarface | hmm. interesting |
| 19:13.18 | gnarface | i wonder what... guessing Steam |
| 19:15.41 | Evilham | my apt-get is failing with "Connecting to amprolla.devuan.org", is this a known issue? (or did I somehow end up with a wrong config?) |
| 19:19.25 | Evilham | (apt-get update) |
| 19:19.54 | bozonius | gnarface: the issue won't be pulse causing issues; it's the other way around. In this case, I'd be concerned (if I had any concern at all that is) with audacious configs |
| 19:19.54 | golinux | The amprolla server was down |
| 19:20.44 | bozonius | but let's set that aside. I have reversed the sound back to pulse again. The pulseaudio server restarted after reinstalling the package (interesting, since pulse is running as a user, not system) and there is NO sound again, just as before. |
| 19:20.52 | Evilham | golinux: It's still failing though >,< |
| 19:20.54 | Evilham | !amprolla |
| 19:20.55 | infobot | nextime gave an excellent explanation how amprolla works, at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2016-05-07/?msg=65646427&page=4, or https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla |
| 19:21.20 | bozonius | I saved the audacious pkg manifest, and created a new one with pulse config. There are hundreds of differences to the test VM. |
| 19:21.45 | bozonius | I installed a lot of software so that I could do some other things like build software and so on. |
| 19:22.13 | bozonius | Now, there is one item that could be an issue, though I don't see why. I updated the weather applet in xfce. |
| 19:22.57 | bozonius | I had to in order for it to work; the provider's API had changed some time back and the stock applet no longer worked with the service |
| 19:23.13 | Evilham | golinux: that's a very clever solution, props |
| 19:23.19 | bozonius | I could try upgrading the weather applet in the twetVM |
| 19:23.41 | bozonius | test VM |
| 19:24.16 | bozonius | just to see if that is the smoking gun |
| 19:24.18 | golinux | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170704.194142.bf771353.en.html |
| 19:24.55 | golinux | Evilham: What clever solution? |
| 19:25.08 | Evilham | I meant amprolla :) |
| 19:25.11 | Evilham | it's a clever solution |
| 19:25.15 | fsmithred | the issue persists |
| 19:25.31 | fsmithred | jessie-security is failing same as last night |
| 19:25.54 | Evilham | golinux: so it's been down since yesterday? |
| 19:26.03 | golinux | So it seems |
| 19:26.33 | Evilham | I'll reply that it's still down if that's ok |
| 19:27.03 | fsmithred | bozonius, did you do 'apt-get autoremove' after you did 'apt-get remove audacious'? |
| 19:27.55 | Evilham | golinux: although, I can ping amprolla.devuan.org; maybe the server needs a restart? |
| 19:28.25 | Evilham | If its connectivity was down, maybe it doesn't handle that properly and is in an unexpected state since the outage |
| 19:30.09 | bozonius | fsmithred: no because it would remove a lot of xfce packages... not sure I want to do that |
| 19:30.17 | bozonius | do I want to do that? |
| 19:30.23 | fsmithred | after audacious?? |
| 19:30.36 | fsmithred | it should just remove whatever came in with audacious |
| 19:30.40 | bozonius | no, these were there before |
| 19:30.48 | bozonius | oh! |
| 19:30.51 | bozonius | I see. |
| 19:30.56 | bozonius | crud. No I didn't. |
| 19:31.06 | fsmithred | I did. |
| 19:31.26 | bozonius | hey... since don't have sound since removing audacious, I am wondering what would happen if... |
| 19:31.27 | fsmithred | and then I put pulseaudio back in, and my sound still works. So I don't know what's going on, either. |
| 19:31.48 | bozonius | it must be some other package then |
| 19:31.52 | bozonius | package(s) I should say |
| 19:31.58 | fsmithred | you lost sound when audacious was removed? |
| 19:33.25 | bozonius | yup. And I kind of expected that. After all, it was only after installing audaciuos that it began to work again. |
| 19:34.10 | bozonius | sound began to work, that is |
| 19:37.59 | fsmithred | you can look in /var/log/apt/history.log (or history.log.1.gz) to see what got installed/removed with audacious |
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| 19:39.42 | bozonius | turns out the same list of xfce packages want to be removed in the test VM. |
| 19:40.05 | fsmithred | what packages? |
| 19:40.45 | bozonius | see my comment at 12:30:08 |
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| 19:41.45 | fsmithred | what's 12:30? |
| 19:42.30 | fsmithred | I don't think we're in the same time zone |
| 19:42.40 | Evilham | his/her local time xD |
| 19:42.48 | Evilham | was thinking the same thing ^^ |
| 19:43.00 | bozonius | sorry, I mean xx:30:08 (this hour) |
| 19:43.16 | golinux | Post the link from the botbot log |
| 19:43.19 | bozonius | I assume you have a log you can scroll back through |
| 19:43.51 | andres12340 | Hello people, just a fast question, it's my connection or amprolla.devuan.org at 50.240.103.34 is down?? |
| 19:44.11 | fsmithred | yes |
| 19:44.19 | fsmithred | "do I want to do that?: |
| 19:44.21 | fsmithred | : |
| 19:44.23 | fsmithred | fuck |
| 19:44.26 | fsmithred | : |
| 19:44.33 | fsmithred | " |
| 19:44.47 | bozonius | not sure who said the f word, wasn't me |
| 19:44.56 | fsmithred | what xfce packages? |
| 19:44.58 | fsmithred | me |
| 19:45.42 | bozonius | you inserted the f-word in something you quoted from me? |
| 19:45.46 | bozonius | curious |
| 19:45.48 | fsmithred | no |
| 19:46.04 | fsmithred | I said fuck because I couldn't find the quote key again after my hand moved. |
| 19:46.05 | *** join/#devuan JohnTheRipper (~JohnTheRi@2.229.193.226) |
| 19:46.05 | Evilham | andres12340: it's down now, we're looking into it |
| 19:46.06 | fsmithred | sorry. |
| 19:46.28 | andres12340 | thanks Evilham ! |
| 19:46.37 | fsmithred | bozonius, I want to see what xfce packages are going to be removed |
| 19:46.43 | bozonius | well, at this point, both the test VM and the VM in question have a list of packages to be removed. They appear to be the same |
| 19:46.53 | fsmithred | apt-get -s autoremove |
| 19:46.57 | bozonius | plus some other, non-related packages (lm-sensors, etc, which we don't need) |
| 19:48.14 | fsmithred | that does not make sense |
| 19:48.40 | fsmithred | lm-sensors wasn't installed because of audacious |
| 19:49.02 | fsmithred | maybe you removed something else and then did not autoremove |
| 19:49.20 | fsmithred | so everything on the autoremove list is not there for the same reason |
| 19:50.25 | Evilham | Has someone here tried the box file for vagrant + virtualbox? |
| 19:50.59 | fsmithred | Evilham, I think I might have tested that before it got uploaded and it worked |
| 19:51.11 | Evilham | I'm having an odd issue where devuan-keyring is installed but apt-get install sudo says it can't authenticate the package |
| 19:51.40 | Evilham | it _could_ be related to the amprolla outage. |
| 19:51.47 | *** join/#devuan metax (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 19:51.50 | fsmithred | tell you in a sec |
| 19:52.01 | Evilham | fsmithred: did you try installing packages? |
| 19:52.12 | fsmithred | yes, there's a newer version in jessie-security than there is in jessie |
| 19:52.21 | metax | hey guys i am experiencing a problem with sound since i installed devuan jessie |
| 19:52.29 | fsmithred | no, but I have all repos enabled so I can see what version is where |
| 19:52.36 | metax | i had sound when first time installed my system but now sound disappeared |
| 19:52.49 | metax | i removed pulseaudio and left only clean alsa |
| 19:52.50 | fsmithred | metax, we're already working on that. You're not the first |
| 19:52.54 | metax | ohhh |
| 19:53.00 | fsmithred | what are you using to play sound? |
| 19:53.09 | metax | vlc, firefox-esr |
| 19:53.11 | metax | html5 |
| 19:53.37 | gnarface | starting to look like a firefox/youtube problem |
| 19:53.38 | fsmithred | speaker-test -f dat -c 2 -t wav |
| 19:53.45 | metax | nor system sounds work |
| 19:54.01 | metax | and vlc problem too? nah |
| 19:54.04 | gnarface | maybe a problem with pulseaudio |
| 19:54.13 | fsmithred | apparently, there's a special rain dance you can do to fix it |
| 19:54.32 | gnarface | so far we haven't even figured out how you guys are causing it |
| 19:54.38 | gnarface | are you guys mixing in Ubuntu repos or something? |
| 19:54.41 | gnarface | deb-multimedia? |
| 19:54.45 | metax | i tried to shutdown -P , removing battery for 30 seconds , holding a power button with removed headphones etc |
| 19:54.48 | gnarface | what's the secret you're not telling us? |
| 19:54.51 | metax | but still no sound |
| 19:54.57 | metax | nope |
| 19:54.59 | metax | pure devuan |
| 19:55.04 | metax | i don't evne have non-free |
| 19:55.16 | gnarface | metax: what about this? speaker-test -f dat -c 2 -t wav |
| 19:55.16 | metax | and my machine is good , dell E6410 |
| 19:55.20 | metax | will try w8 |
| 19:55.48 | gnarface | if that doesn't work, try adding -D hw:0,0 |
| 19:55.59 | Evilham | fsmithred: actually it can't authenticate any package that comes from debian O.ô and debian-keyring is installed |
| 19:56.14 | bozonius | guess what -- sound is back in the VM in question! |
| 19:56.20 | fsmithred | I'm using a vbox install from RC1 or RC2 that I haven't touched since middle of May |
| 19:56.29 | bozonius | something I just removed, like the last 5 minutes or so, has restored sound |
| 19:56.43 | gnarface | got a list of the packages removed, bozonius? |
| 19:56.54 | gnarface | it makes it really hard to guess when you don't show the list |
| 19:57.02 | Evilham | I'm not having this issue with either a blank installation nor with a debian jessie --> devuan jessie |
| 19:57.16 | Evilham | it's just the instalation with the box file |
| 19:57.29 | fsmithred | is devuan-keyring installed? |
| 19:57.35 | fsmithred | Evilham, ^^^ |
| 19:57.39 | Evilham | both |
| 19:57.56 | fsmithred | sources.list the same? |
| 19:59.04 | gnarface | Evilham: the keys are in /usr/share somewhere. just find them and run apt-key add [filename] on them as root. there was probably a version with a postinst script that failed to do it right. |
| 19:59.41 | bozonius | fsmithred, gnarface: Just removed these and sound is back: libaudcore2 libbinio1ldbl libcue1 libguess1 libmms0 libsidplayfp3 |
| 19:59.58 | gnarface | Evilham: or if something went wrong during an upgrade (ran out of disk space, network choked, etc) it might have been sabotaged. |
| 20:00.15 | bozonius | these had been removed since last boot of the VM in question because they were the only differences between the VM in question and the test VM |
| 20:00.23 | metax | well that doesn't work (the command you gave) |
| 20:00.25 | metax | with -D hw:0,0 |
| 20:00.26 | Evilham | gmarface: thanks for the pointer, that didn't work. This wasn't an upgrade, it's an official devuan box file for a VM :) |
| 20:00.27 | metax | and without |
| 20:00.36 | Evilham | fsmithred: well, I have no contrib and no non-free on the vm, but I don't think that makes a difference (goes try it) |
| 20:01.19 | bozonius | I suppose I should add them back one by one to figure out which one is the offender |
| 20:02.00 | fsmithred | auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged |
| 20:02.01 | Evilham | yeah, all the same |
| 20:02.06 | fsmithred | ok |
| 20:02.11 | gnarface | bozonius: maybe, yea. remember to run "ldconfig" after each one though |
| 20:02.11 | Evilham | didn't get better :p |
| 20:02.23 | fsmithred | why ldconfig? |
| 20:02.34 | Evilham | we'll see if maybe amprolla goes back up adn that magically solves this issue |
| 20:02.35 | gnarface | bozonius: for whatever it's worth, i have all those on ceres except libbinio1ldbl |
| 20:02.51 | fsmithred | I just installed that list and sound is still working |
| 20:02.51 | gnarface | bozonius: but libaudcore3 instead |
| 20:03.21 | gnarface | fsmithred: just to force the ld cache to update. i am not sure if all the packages do it right yet. |
| 20:03.55 | gnarface | fsmithred: (one of those things i'll be doing long after it changes from best practices to superstition) |
| 20:04.16 | fsmithred | ok, I have some of those |
| 20:04.23 | gnarface | metax: you're in a VM too? |
| 20:04.36 | metax | no |
| 20:04.41 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 20:04.46 | metax | i have no sound system wide |
| 20:05.25 | metax | i can paste some shell output like devices etc |
| 20:05.39 | gnarface | metax: how about this? dpkg -l |grep alsa- |
| 20:06.22 | gnarface | bozonius: i just had a memory come back. were you the guy who had to add snd_hda_intel to /etc/modules and we couldn't figure out why it wasn't auto-loading? |
| 20:06.37 | gnarface | bozonius: was THAT the fix you were trying to remember? |
| 20:06.49 | metax | http://paste.debian.net/975001/ |
| 20:08.11 | gnarface | metax: i also have alsa-tools. also, adding alsa-oss back in might give you other debugging options. |
| 20:08.15 | bozonius | hmmm... trying to recall. Sounds sorta familiar, but remember my memory is not very good. |
| 20:08.37 | bozonius | But, yes, that could be it. |
| 20:08.44 | metax | alsamixer: http://paste.debian.net/975002/ |
| 20:08.48 | gnarface | bozonius: try "modprobe snd_hda_intel" |
| 20:08.49 | gnarface | bozonius: (as root) |
| 20:09.03 | bozonius | not "lsmod" to see if it is already loaded? |
| 20:09.17 | gnarface | bozonius: sure, you can do that first. |
| 20:09.54 | gnarface | metax: SNAFU, your primary PCM is muted. |
| 20:10.05 | bozonius | ok, I HAVE sound in the test VM, and snd_hda_intel is NOT loaded. |
| 20:10.21 | gnarface | metax: ("MM" at the bottom of the column. highlight and hit "m" to toggle) |
| 20:10.52 | gnarface | bozonius: ok, it's my memory that is faulty there then. |
| 20:10.58 | bozonius | THAT (muted PCM) sounds like the problem I had, actually... but maybe not on devuan. I think that was on pclinuxos. |
| 20:11.02 | *** join/#devuan Olufunmilayo (~Olufunmil@unaffiliated/olufunmilayo) |
| 20:11.11 | gnarface | bozonius: also, now i realize i don't know a damned thing about your VM if that's possilbe |
| 20:11.16 | gnarface | *possible |
| 20:11.17 | bozonius | not necessarily gnarface. More likely mine |
| 20:11.41 | gnarface | metax: (also, the headphone output is muted too) |
| 20:11.55 | bozonius | mostly defaults, I realy don't change much. Both the VMs are configured as similarly as possible. |
| 20:12.12 | gnarface | metax: i'd disable the auto-mute mode, personally. just personal taste though. jack-sensing creeps me out and annoys me |
| 20:12.32 | fsmithred | how did you get that alsamixer output? |
| 20:12.34 | metax | oh my god |
| 20:12.38 | metax | thank you so much |
| 20:12.40 | bozonius | has always had a problem with long term memory |
| 20:12.45 | gnarface | metax: yea nice paste though. how'd you pull that off? |
| 20:12.46 | metax | i have no idea why it got muted |
| 20:12.57 | metax | you know xfce didn't show much about that |
| 20:13.06 | *** join/#devuan pitchum (~pitchum@freeture.gramaton.org) |
| 20:13.15 | metax | gnarface, i just copypasted as usually |
| 20:13.16 | gnarface | metax: the auto-mute mode reacts to analog jack hotplug events (yea, we have that technology now in the wild) usually annoyingly, by muting stuff when you least expect it |
| 20:15.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((I HAVE sound in the test VM, and snd_hda_intel is NOT loaded.)) you're aware your VM has also VSound? |
| 20:16.02 | gnarface | wtf is VSound? |
| 20:16.04 | bozonius | I am now doing a "cold reboot" of the VM in question |
| 20:16.06 | fsmithred | and is probably using ac97 |
| 20:16.32 | fsmithred | brb |
| 20:16.52 | metax | gnarface, my fault is i am not familiar with XFCE, just found that mixer has more capabilities over there... |
| 20:17.24 | metax | but yeah i wasn't aware of MM in alsamixer |
| 20:18.00 | gnarface | i'm not sure what mixer XFCE uses, but even pulse audio's mixer is beholden to alsamixer settings to a certain degree. |
| 20:18.10 | bozonius | Aaaaagh! No sound in VM in question after cold reboot! |
| 20:18.30 | gnarface | bozonius: quick, run lsmod, is the sound driver loaded? |
| 20:19.13 | *** join/#devuan ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 20:19.23 | bozonius | no, just snd_intel8x0. However, snd_hda_config was not loaded when I DID have sound before reboot |
| 20:19.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | sound driver for which soundcard? what did you set in VM config? |
| 20:19.59 | bozonius | DocScrutinizer05: Sound was running in this VM just a moment ago, before cold reboot |
| 20:20.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | VSound is same as VMachine |
| 20:20.10 | bozonius | what is VMachine? |
| 20:20.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | p.O |
| 20:20.58 | bozonius | sorry, not following you |
| 20:20.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict VM |
| 20:21.23 | *** join/#devuan FlibberTGibbet (~David@cust241-dsl93-89-129.idnet.net) |
| 20:21.33 | *** join/#devuan systemdsucks (~sys@90.pool85-57-178.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 20:21.33 | bozonius | sorry, not sure what you are saying. Are you talking to me? |
| 20:21.37 | bozonius | I'm confused |
| 20:22.11 | systemdsucks | Hi there, would it be possible to upload the same Live DVD you have with xfce with LXDE instead? |
| 20:22.12 | bozonius | I'm not familiar with every last acronym used on the IRC |
| 20:22.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a VM you need the sound driver for the virtual soundcard you configured in VM settingsa |
| 20:22.23 | FlibberTGibbet | \o |
| 20:23.37 | TwistedFate | DocScrutinizer05: hey, it appears to be a bug thats affecting haswell and skylake cpus |
| 20:24.02 | TwistedFate | i asked around on a local forum and 1 guy told me its a known bug, found this too https://bugs.launchpad.net/qemu/+bug/1307225 |
| 20:24.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | bozonius: http://www.virtuatopia.com/index.php/Configuring_VirtualBox_Virtual_Machine_Settings#Audio_Settings |
| 20:25.07 | bozonius | Doc: I just had sound moments ago. |
| 20:25.11 | fsmithred | systemdsucks, the DVD has lxde on it. |
| 20:25.18 | fsmithred | doesn't it? |
| 20:25.20 | bozonius | I did not change the VM config over the reboot |
| 20:25.33 | fsmithred | it's one of the choices in tasksel, I know. |
| 20:26.10 | systemdsucks | fsmithred: The installation dvd yes, I am talking about the LIVE DVD |
| 20:26.39 | systemdsucks | the live DVD with that would be perfect |
| 20:27.08 | fsmithred | well, I might make a refracta-ascii iso that has openbox and about half of lxde sometime soon |
| 20:27.32 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 20:27.40 | *** join/#devuan CyborgEvilham (~Evilham@93.190.142.46) |
| 20:27.50 | fsmithred | but right now I don't think we're going to increase the number of isos that are available for devuan |
| 20:28.17 | systemdsucks | fsmithred: But in a few months would you upload the LXDE live iso? |
| 20:28.32 | fsmithred | I'm thinking weeks, not months |
| 20:28.41 | fsmithred | but not full lxde |
| 20:28.42 | TwistedFate | oh oh |
| 20:28.46 | TwistedFate | do a minimal i3 :D |
| 20:28.47 | systemdsucks | not full? |
| 20:28.52 | fsmithred | nope |
| 20:28.58 | systemdsucks | in what sense not full? |
| 20:29.23 | systemdsucks | that it is only the desktop without utilities like leafpad you mean? |
| 20:29.26 | fsmithred | openbox, lxterminal, lxpanel, lxrandr, lxappearance-obconf |
| 20:30.00 | fsmithred | leafpad, spacefm, and probably palemoon |
| 20:30.15 | systemdsucks | ok, leafpad is really useful in a minimal environment |
| 20:30.29 | systemdsucks | and firefox? |
| 20:30.30 | fsmithred | in fact, if you want one like that made from jessie that has vdev, it's already uploaded |
| 20:30.34 | fsmithred | fff |
| 20:30.43 | fsmithred | guess what the extra f stands for |
| 20:30.56 | fsmithred | I want borders on my buttons |
| 20:30.57 | systemdsucks | the "f" word? |
| 20:31.23 | fsmithred | doctors without borders good, buttons without borders bad. |
| 20:31.23 | *** join/#devuan JohnTheRipper (~JohnTheRi@2.229.193.226) |
| 20:32.12 | systemdsucks | fsmithred: what do you mean? that annoying NARROW bar (instead of wider, like in previous versions) that you get with firefox in jessie? |
| 20:32.31 | systemdsucks | the scroll up-down rightmost bar I mean |
| 20:32.47 | *** join/#devuan FlibberTGibbet (~david@cust241-dsl93-89-129.idnet.net) |
| 20:33.25 | systemdsucks | fsmithred: the only two live dvds that are uploaded are: xfce and text (cli, no window manager). But I cannot see any other live DVD |
| 20:33.31 | *** join/#devuan JohnTheRipper (~JohnTheRi@2.229.193.226) |
| 20:33.33 | fsmithred | various gtk3 screwups |
| 20:34.07 | fsmithred | yeah, hang on. It's not official devuan, but it was made by the same guy who made the devuan desktop-live (me) |
| 20:35.07 | fsmithred | http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/experimental/ |
| 20:35.14 | *** join/#devuan Evilham (~Evilham@93.190.142.46) |
| 20:35.32 | systemdsucks | ok |
| 20:35.38 | systemdsucks | fsmithred: vdev2 stands for? |
| 20:35.41 | fsmithred | on jessie-vdev2, login:password user:user root:root |
| 20:35.47 | fsmithred | second vdev build |
| 20:35.55 | fsmithred | but both vdev and udev are installed |
| 20:36.17 | fsmithred | I hope you know your way around the package manager and systems in general |
| 20:36.25 | fsmithred | it's a little rough around the edges |
| 20:36.35 | fsmithred | gotta go |
| 20:36.39 | fsmithred | bbiab |
| 20:36.43 | systemdsucks | ok |
| 20:36.47 | systemdsucks | fsmithred: one last thing |
| 20:37.01 | systemdsucks | to me, devuan just needs 2 more things in order to be perfect: |
| 20:37.06 | systemdsucks | 1) an LXDE live DVD |
| 20:37.30 | systemdsucks | 2) the DVD-1, DVD-2, DVD-3, etc. ISOs uploaded to have the offline repository (like in debian) |
| 20:37.35 | systemdsucks | with that it would be perfect |
| 20:37.41 | systemdsucks | I hope you consider it in the future :) |
| 20:37.45 | systemdsucks | thanks |
| 20:37.48 | systemdsucks | see you |
| 20:38.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | TwistedFate: good you found the reason |
| 20:53.19 | systemdsucks | Debian, each new version sucks more and more. Now, version 9 is not only slower than version 8 but has supressed basic commands like ifconfig |
| 20:53.41 | systemdsucks | the level of incompetence is astounding |
| 20:59.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | did systemd replace or require a patch to ip? |
| 20:59.11 | _stephen_ | systemdsucks: to be fair, not having ifconfig isn't the same as suppressing it, and you can just use ip instead. |
| 20:59.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have to confess I never got friends with ip |
| 21:00.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/got/became/ |
| 21:01.14 | Death_Syn | ifconfig has been deprecated for over 10 years |
| 21:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ip is way too systend alike, not "do one thing and do it decent" |
| 21:01.57 | _stephen_ | It does something other than configure ip? |
| 21:02.20 | Death_Syn | iproute just tells the kernel what to do |
| 21:02.59 | _stephen_ | I've only ever used it for adding/removing/listing ip addresses for interfaces.... or bringing them up and down. You know, exactly what ifconfig did, just with different syntax. |
| 21:03.10 | systemdsucks | _stephen_: I don't know, maybe ifconfig is just a frontend for ip. But it is quite easy to misconfigure the network interface with "ip address", if you don't do it well, you cannot just invoke ip address again with the new instruction, you have to delete with "ip address del" or something like that, too troublesome |
| 21:03.22 | Death_Syn | iproute2 was introduced with network interface changes in kernel 2.2 |
| 21:03.43 | _stephen_ | It's the same command to delete as remove, just replaced s/add/del/ |
| 21:04.05 | _stephen_ | You could ^add^del even if you spot it before doing another command. |
| 21:04.09 | systemdsucks | _stephen_: Yeah, but you have to specify broadcast address, specify x.x.x.x/24 . I don't always remember that I have to write "24", so while you can just use ip, and I guess it makes you a better CLI "programmer", it is nice to have ifconfig |
| 21:05.14 | bozonius | I've tried reinstalling those same packages that seemed to bring sound back... but alas, no. And I added each one separately (or tried to, there were dependencies between them I guess) and even cold booted before adding the next. No sound. |
| 21:05.20 | systemdsucks | _stephen_: don't get me wrong, I learnt "ip" before "ifconfig" was removed, just for the sake of learning a lower level instruction (sometimes in a rescue environment all you have is "ip" so it is useful to be able to understand it) |
| 21:06.08 | systemdsucks | _stephen_: the problem is that Debian 9 has got more issues like that, removing small packages that are very basic. |
| 21:06.11 | bozonius | I seem to have ifconfig here on devuan. I use it regularly. |
| 21:06.33 | systemdsucks | Moreover, how come what was a 1,2G ISO in debian 8 has now become an almost 2Gb ISO? it's amazing |
| 21:06.46 | systemdsucks | bozonius: yeah, devuan is much more gentle in that regard |
| 21:07.02 | specing | 2Gb? Amateurs! |
| 21:07.56 | systemdsucks | File:debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde.iso 1954880 KB |
| 21:09.28 | *** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 21:19.17 | fsmithred | install net-tools if you want ifconfig |
| 21:19.37 | bozonius | it is installed by default on devuan I think |
| 21:19.45 | fsmithred | in jessie, but not in ascii |
| 21:19.54 | bozonius | oh, sorry. didn't realize |
| 21:20.11 | fsmithred | yeah, we're still learning about the changes in ascii |
| 21:20.12 | bozonius | I see no inherent advantage to ip over ifconfig |
| 21:20.42 | *** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.75.30) |
| 21:21.46 | bozonius | I think I agree with systemdsucks. If devuan is going to lead the nonsystemd contingent of distros, etc., I don't see why it cannot assert itself in areas such as utilities selection. |
| 21:21.57 | fsmithred | systemdsucks, are you aware that the live isos have the tools for making your own live isos? |
| 21:22.49 | bozonius | if a new tool is needed, then it can be added. But *nix traditionally does not break backwards compatibility. |
| 21:23.22 | bozonius | For instance, vim does a lot, lot more than vi (and I have yet to learn 2% of that!) but vi is still available and supported to the best of my knowledge. |
| 21:24.26 | bozonius | ip does everything ifconfig does, ok, but why should ifconfig be eliminated? People who want added functionality (if that is what ip does, I rarely use it), they could enable a repo and install what they like. |
| 21:24.54 | bozonius | that approach seems more in line with *nix tradition, per VUA's, but then again, this topic should be taken to the debianfork channel... |
| 21:25.02 | fsmithred | I don't have control over what goes into the installer isos, but I'm pretty sure I already added net-tools to the list of what goes into the desktop-live |
| 21:25.26 | fsmithred | like, five seconds after I realized where I could get ifconfig. |
| 21:26.17 | bozonius | at any rate... I still don't have sound. |
| 21:26.21 | fsmithred | bozonius, did the sound issue ever get figur |
| 21:26.23 | fsmithred | oh |
| 21:26.24 | bozonius | and no idea what changed. |
| 21:26.47 | fsmithred | can't reproduce it by removing pulseaudio and adding audacious? |
| 21:26.52 | bozonius | I removed and added the same packages, but I am not back where I started!? |
| 21:27.16 | bozonius | I tried switching desktops (using MATE instead of xfce4, e.g.) but no luck. |
| 21:27.53 | bozonius | I removed the sound control widget from the panel, thinking (far-fetched, maybe) this could fix it. |
| 21:27.55 | bozonius | nope. |
| 21:28.15 | bozonius | reproduce getting sound back you mean? |
| 21:28.19 | fsmithred | yes |
| 21:28.23 | bozonius | haven't tried that yet. |
| 21:28.44 | bozonius | adding audacious gives me sound, not pulseaudio |
| 21:28.56 | fsmithred | right. That's what I remember. |
| 21:29.03 | bozonius | so when you say "reproduce" this way, it is backward from what I am trying to do. |
| 21:29.21 | bozonius | I would like to use pulseaudio, which is working fine in my test VM |
| 21:29.25 | fsmithred | oh |
| 21:30.02 | fsmithred | I'm not qualified to help with that, as I've never gotten pulseaudio to work. |
| 21:30.27 | bozonius | I mean, audacious -- whatever the install did there -- might be ok, but that kind of equivocates the issue of getting pulseaudio working again. |
| 21:30.40 | bozonius | I'm willing to try it though. |
| 21:30.51 | bozonius | if you think it will give us more information. It didn't seem to clarify anything last go around |
| 21:30.54 | fsmithred | I did notice a pulesaudio lib in the list of packages that came with audacious |
| 21:31.04 | bozonius | ah. |
| 21:31.05 | fsmithred | no, it will probably just confuse us |
| 21:31.08 | bozonius | interesting. |
| 21:31.24 | bozonius | y'know, I think I noticed that also. |
| 21:31.40 | bozonius | I figured it was just a hook so that it would work with pulse |
| 21:31.46 | bozonius | but idk |
| 21:31.49 | fsmithred | not a lib |
| 21:32.06 | fsmithred | pulseaudio-utils |
| 21:32.12 | bozonius | yes |
| 21:32.20 | bozonius | compatibilty probably |
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| 21:33.58 | fsmithred | isn't there a frontend control for pulseaudio? |
| 21:34.15 | Centurion-Dan2 | yup pavucontrol |
| 21:34.37 | fsmithred | does it work? |
| 21:35.25 | Centurion-Dan2 | in a fashion.... I've never much liked it... too much obfuscation... |
| 21:35.31 | fsmithred | I'm installing it now to look. |
| 21:35.48 | fsmithred | I think I looked at an earlier version a few years ago, and I couldn't see that it did very much. |
| 21:36.37 | Centurion-Dan2 | I don't think much has changed since poettering turned his attention to perverting the core of linux systems. |
| 21:37.20 | Centurion-Dan2 | except that the new maintainer seems to have done a good job of stabilising it... |
| 21:38.06 | fsmithred | yeah, I've heard that |
| 21:38.11 | bozonius | maybe that maintainer can do the same for systemd after he finishes stabilizing pulse |
| 21:38.20 | fsmithred | you can select input/output devices and control volume |
| 21:38.22 | bozonius | like I care, but |
| 21:38.24 | fsmithred | lol |
| 21:38.36 | fsmithred | I assume that somebody will do it eventually |
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| 21:39.07 | fsmithred | bozonius, pavucontrol might be helpful |
| 21:40.24 | bozonius | well crap! |
| 21:40.27 | bozonius | guess what |
| 21:40.41 | fsmithred | sound works and you didn't change anything? |
| 21:40.42 | bozonius | all ths talk of pavucontrol made me give that a try |
| 21:40.45 | bozonius | I had to install it |
| 21:41.02 | bozonius | but I noticed that the output device was muted, which did not show up in the mixer |
| 21:41.08 | fsmithred | lol |
| 21:41.09 | bozonius | the mixer looked to be normal |
| 21:41.17 | bozonius | lol? why I... |
| 21:41.30 | fsmithred | output muted |
| 21:41.36 | bozonius | throws a broken VM at fsmithred but misses |
| 21:41.38 | fsmithred | finding it is the trick |
| 21:41.45 | bozonius | always the trick! |
| 21:41.46 | fsmithred | small target here |
| 21:42.09 | bozonius | I'm lol myself, actually |
| 21:42.18 | bozonius | this is dopey ridiculous |
| 21:42.24 | bozonius | ok, so now the question is |
| 21:42.26 | fsmithred | alsa is famous for being muted |
| 21:42.35 | bozonius | HOW THE F*** DID THIS HAPPEN? |
| 21:42.49 | bozonius | I didn't touch the dials or controls, honest officer! |
| 21:43.16 | bozonius | all I did was go about my business, adding and deleting packages etc |
| 21:43.18 | bozonius | oh |
| 21:43.22 | bozonius | and using the system |
| 21:43.32 | bozonius | you know for actual work |
| 21:43.36 | bozonius | stuff I need to get done |
| 21:43.44 | fsmithred | pavucontrol showed you an output that alsamixer did not? |
| 21:44.03 | bozonius | gnarface: This is the "silly" little thing I had to change last time. NOW I remember what it was. |
| 21:44.07 | bozonius | headslaps himself |
| 21:44.30 | bozonius | I remember it was a simple, sort of minor thing, but just couldn't recall. |
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| 21:45.13 | bozonius | Under the tab "Output Devices" the first small icon was enabled, which disables the whole output mechanism. |
| 21:45.25 | bozonius | I clicked on it, and enabled it. Sound reappears. duh |
| 21:45.32 | bozonius | I can't beleive this |
| 21:45.44 | fsmithred | I can |
| 21:46.02 | bozonius | sound was working. I did not touch sound. Didn't fiddle with it. |
| 21:46.05 | bozonius | didn't modify it |
| 21:46.12 | fsmithred | well ok, that's weird. |
| 21:46.16 | bozonius | didn't try to do anything fancy, like with mixer or whatever |
| 21:46.20 | fsmithred | usually there's no sound to begin with |
| 21:46.32 | bozonius | something reached into my system, switched it off, then ran away laughing |
| 21:46.39 | fsmithred | gremlins |
| 21:46.41 | bozonius | like when my bike got stolen |
| 21:46.44 | bozonius | yeah. |
| 21:46.53 | bozonius | vgremlins |
| 21:46.54 | fsmithred | brb |
| 21:48.09 | gnarface | bozonius: headphone auto-mute mode perhaps |
| 21:48.15 | gnarface | bozonius: check in alsamixer |
| 21:48.35 | gnarface | bozonius: (i don't know if pulseaudio has a setting for that too) |
| 21:49.10 | bozonius | oh... yeah. I might have tried using headphones, but still this IS a VM |
| 21:49.23 | gnarface | that it's a VM may or may not matter, i dunno |
| 21:49.28 | gnarface | may depend on the VM settings |
| 21:49.29 | bozonius | yeah... |
| 21:49.36 | bozonius | ac97 sound |
| 21:49.40 | bozonius | that's all |
| 21:50.04 | bozonius | pulseaudio driver on the host side |
| 21:50.04 | gnarface | also since it's a VM i wouldn't be shocked if restarting it might trigger the host's headphone jack hotplug |
| 21:50.04 | bozonius | but that should all be opaque to the guest |
| 21:50.32 | bozonius | true. And there has been a headphone plugged into the host all throughout this fiasco. |
| 21:50.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | re breaking backward compatibility / removing tools: the mere fact that ifconfig is deprecated since 10 years (fact?) and yet still is in toolbox until most lately, is telling a story that forbids removing it now. Also see vi vs vim as mentioned, or for example insmod/rmmod vs modprobe |
| 21:51.06 | gnarface | then there's the part about how if you change alsamixer settings but fail to shut down cleanly, or something else goes wrong with the alsactl script, it might fail to save your settings, so after reboot it would just go back to whatever it had set the last time it was cleanly shutdown |
| 21:51.10 | gnarface | bozonius: ^ |
| 21:51.55 | bozonius | well, this is one more of those things that might be attributable to the nature of pulseaudio |
| 21:52.15 | gnarface | yea, i'm not clear on what all it does, i just know it complicates it a lot |
| 21:52.36 | bozonius | for the most part, I've enjoyed pulseaudio, having given me sound across host and VM guests, and even across physical machines |
| 21:53.16 | bozonius | A number of years back, I had my computers and equipment in a smaller bedroom and found it was just too hot to work in there (even without machines running, it was hot in there) |
| 21:53.22 | gnarface | it's supposed to be a convenience for people who don't want to understand alsa that well, but it seems to be primarily maintained by people who also don't want to understand alsa that well. |
| 21:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 21:54.32 | bozonius | the apartment had central AC, but I found moving to the living room to work was better. So I hooked up another, smaller machine -- kind of a smart terminal arrangment, ran a cable through the wall, redirected sound and video, and...voila! |
| 21:54.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's just one thing PA can do and ALSA can't (that simple): dynamic rerouting of audio streams |
| 21:54.52 | bozonius | ^yeah, as in my example here |
| 21:55.01 | bozonius | very, very convenient |
| 21:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. when you pair a BT headset and sound 'magically' moces to that headset |
| 21:55.36 | bozonius | I wonder if I can call this a bug, per se. |
| 21:55.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | but ALSA can do same with already paired headsets |
| 21:56.24 | gnarface | when it was first put into debian, it was a instant regression to my 5.1 channel audio setup, because at the time pulseaudio didn't actually support anything but stereo. when i complained about it, the debian maintainers elected to address my complaint by trying to make me feel like a bad person for owning a 6-channel speaker set. they further insinuated that nobody does that and nobody ever would. the worst part is, |
| 21:56.24 | gnarface | by pushing pulseaudio in as part of their default install, they just about made it a self-fulfilling prophecy |
| 21:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | in ALSA you would just run audio plug and BT headset as two concurrent audio sinks, splitting streams to both of them, possibly via volume sliders |
| 21:57.14 | gnarface | because now NOBODY in the commercial sector can figure out how to support 5.1 channel sound in linux anymore - to the point that common "knowledge" is that linux doesn't have this feature. despite the fact it's actually had it for decades... |
| 21:57.23 | bozonius | kind of like the way the systemd folk make you feel if you complain about any aspect of that system |
| 21:58.02 | bozonius | So, does pulse support 5.1 now? |
| 21:58.03 | golinux | bozonius: Electronics where you sleep is _not_a_good_thing_ |
| 21:58.33 | bozonius | golinux: I slept in the master bedroom. The extra bedroom was kind of a work and junk room |
| 21:58.37 | gnarface | bozonius: i think it does if you manually change some config file, but i don't know where. |
| 21:59.16 | bozonius | gnarface: sorry, "does" what? Count as a bug? |
| 21:59.24 | bozonius | or something else I was rambling on about? |
| 21:59.41 | gnarface | bozonius: i think pulseaudio does support 5.1 channel sound now, but you have to change a config file manually |
| 21:59.48 | bozonius | oh |
| 21:59.49 | bozonius | ok |
| 21:59.54 | gnarface | maybe not, maybe it's finally able to auto-detect |
| 22:00.15 | fsmithred | yeah, I saw choices for 5.1 in pavucontrol |
| 22:00.29 | bozonius | right. It does, now I remember. |
| 22:00.51 | bozonius | in fact, I think I was able to test it a bit when I had some extra speakers |
| 22:01.00 | bozonius | but |
| 22:01.18 | bozonius | what about this switch getting reset mysteriously? Is it or is it not a bug? |
| 22:01.38 | bozonius | certainly irritating. But whether a bug or not, idk |
| 22:01.39 | gnarface | but the part about them pushing it into production before having such support, causing a regression by ego-maniacally assuming that nobody was using surround-sound in linux because they personally didn't know how, is a perfect example of the type of wrong-minded thinking that permeates the whole freedesktop project |
| 22:02.12 | gnarface | bozonius: headphone auto-mute mode in alsamixer on the host and guest. did you disable it yet? |
| 22:02.35 | bozonius | perfect example also of people migrating from the magical world of Windows where everything sort of works sort of most of the time but when it doesn't it becomes a task for a highly-paid trained technician to try to tackle |
| 22:02.50 | bozonius | oh, forgot to check that. |
| 22:02.52 | bozonius | hold on |
| 22:03.23 | gnarface | bozonius: disable it, reboot, make sure it's disabled, then run all your tests again |
| 22:03.27 | bozonius | oh. In alsamixer on host, there are only 2 controls |
| 22:03.39 | gnarface | maybe it'll only matter in the guest then |
| 22:04.02 | fsmithred | alsamixer probably shows pa by default |
| 22:04.11 | fsmithred | F6 or something to see individual controls |
| 22:04.17 | bozonius | jack sense options are all disabled in guest |
| 22:04.30 | bozonius | (guest alsamixer) |
| 22:04.52 | bozonius | only one enabled actually is microphone capture |
| 22:05.34 | bozonius | so reboot VM, make sure it is still disabled, run aplay test, e.g. |
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| 22:06.27 | bozonius | (no need to reboot host, since sound DOES work on host and in VMs when properly config'd) |
| 22:08.49 | bozonius | gnarface: cold or warm reboot? |
| 22:09.37 | gnarface | bozonius: well for the VM i doubt it matters. for the host... always try cold when everything else fails. |
| 22:09.47 | bozonius | Virtualbox uses the same host-side pulseaudio connection for each VM until that VM is started cold, or if the pulseaudio on the host is restarted |
| 22:09.55 | bozonius | ok, cold boot it is |
| 22:10.13 | gnarface | bozonius: everything else didn't fail though, we just can't seem to recreate your steps. i'm starting to think this may be a pulseaudio issue that is beyond my grasp. you might want to consider asking in #pulseaudio |
| 22:10.27 | gnarface | if you haven't already |
| 22:10.29 | bozonius | yeah, ok |
| 22:10.32 | bozonius | (no not yet) |
| 22:11.06 | gnarface | i fully admit my frustration with pulseaudio behaving weirdly just led me to give up on it entirely |
| 22:11.15 | bozonius | you know how people here have been mentioning how they feel when they open issues with pulse devs? well, that's why I thought I'd check it here first |
| 22:11.24 | bozonius | oh no. np. I get that. |
| 22:11.25 | gnarface | on my own systems it's one of the packges i always purge immediately when it accidentally gets pulled in |
| 22:11.31 | bozonius | lol |
| 22:12.30 | gnarface | avahi, network-manager, pulseaudio - i was purging all of this crap before i found out they were all written by the same redhat employee |
| 22:12.48 | gnarface | start shit talking about the quality control and regressions in #debian will get you on the bad side of their ops fast though. |
| 22:13.13 | bozonius | thanks for the heads up. I won't talk shit. |
| 22:13.43 | bozonius | networkmangler too huh? |
| 22:14.00 | bozonius | that's another one with a longhistory of "interesting" issues... yes |
| 22:14.04 | gnarface | it's creepy, the loyalty to RedHat, really. it should have been heeded as a warning sign probably. |
| 22:14.17 | bozonius | you know, waaaaay back in the 1990s |
| 22:14.35 | bozonius | when RedHat was just getting going, I heard a lot of comments about it |
| 22:14.48 | gnarface | oh i was there too. i really liked their installer |
| 22:15.15 | gnarface | but even then i knew their public good will might come to a bad end one day. i guess the time just got past me... |
| 22:15.49 | bozonius | people were concerned that having a company like RH would be the denouement of open source |
| 22:16.20 | bozonius | nothing really bad happened for a long time |
| 22:16.21 | bozonius | but it crept up and hit hard |
| 22:16.32 | bozonius | those folks smelt a rat way back then |
| 22:16.50 | bozonius | nods |
| 22:16.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | fuser -k /dev/snd/*; cat /dev/urandom >/dev/snd/pcmC0D1p; # the ultimate sound test |
| 22:17.25 | gnarface | bozonius: he's joking, don't run this^ |
| 22:17.57 | fsmithred | I don't know what it does, but I'm considering it |
| 22:18.11 | gnarface | if you're lucky it will just hurt your ears. if you're unlucky it will hurt your speakers too. |
| 22:18.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ot kills PA (or whatever), then plays white noise to the D/A |
| 22:18.42 | bozonius | sometimes running random data through speakers can help detect a problem though |
| 22:18.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | what gnarfacesays |
| 22:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't do it |
| 22:19.05 | bozonius | main thing is to make sure volume is set low |
| 22:19.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ot take care |
| 22:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 22:19.20 | gnarface | bozonius: speaker-test plays white noise by default if you don't pass -t wav |
| 22:19.34 | bozonius | right, so there is no reason to do it that way |
| 22:20.19 | bozonius | so I guess it is over to #pulseaudio to get my ears pinned back for detecting a (potential) bug with their software |
| 22:21.21 | fsmithred | well, I didn't hear anything, but I'm getting write error: no space left on device |
| 22:21.28 | fsmithred | udev is 100% full |
| 22:21.29 | bozonius | I mean, merely pointing out a bug could be insinuating |
| 22:21.56 | bozonius | ah, now you've done it Olly |
| 22:22.06 | fsmithred | lol, shutting down the vm |
| 22:22.14 | bozonius | lol |
| 22:22.30 | bozonius | that's the great thing about VMs... |
| 22:22.43 | bozonius | I can blow away that test VM I suppose |
| 22:23.01 | bozonius | gnarface: It wasn't LVM after all... ROFLMAO! |
| 22:23.02 | fsmithred | I have a couple dozen more if this one dies |
| 22:24.10 | bozonius | well, this has all been fun. |
| 22:24.54 | bozonius | fsmithred, gnarface, DocScrutinizer05, et al: Thank you all for your input and assistance. |
| 22:25.14 | fsmithred | yw |
| 22:25.26 | gnarface | no problem bozonius, sorry we still can't figure out what's wrong... let us know what #pulseaudio says about it |
| 22:25.31 | fsmithred | ok, time for dinner |
| 22:25.35 | fsmithred | bbl |
| 22:25.45 | bozonius | Think I'll start by looking for bugs against this that might already be filed. |
| 22:26.11 | bozonius | That's one way for me to avoid the wrath of Lennart-Khan |
| 22:28.28 | bozonius | @gnarface: will do. |
| 22:29.06 | metax | oh still that vm problem |
| 22:29.22 | metax | wow that is really strange |
| 22:32.15 | bozonius | omg |
| 22:32.28 | bozonius | I think I figured out at least one way this could happen. |
| 22:32.54 | bozonius | get this: I install the sound widget for xfce4 (really sound mixer widget) |
| 22:33.02 | bozonius | crank the sound all the way down until it mutes |
| 22:33.08 | bozonius | and the sound does mute |
| 22:33.26 | bozonius | then crank it back up to the level it was at previously, where it was loud enough to hear sound |
| 22:33.32 | bozonius | and no sound anymore |
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| 22:34.10 | bozonius | Now, what is really interesting is that I can see exactly what is happening if I leave pavucontrol "Output Devices" tab open while playing with the widget control |
| 22:34.52 | bozonius | when I bring the sound level all the way down to zero, the mute control in pavucontrol shows that it is enabled (mute is on) |
| 22:35.21 | bozonius | but when I move the widget control back up, pavucontrol does not un-mute the sound |
| 22:35.52 | bozonius | and I believe I may have done that early on (when this problem first surfaced) because I was trying to adjust the sound on a video I was watching |
| 22:36.12 | bozonius | why I would pull it all the way down, idk. Maybe by mistake |
| 22:36.50 | bozonius | so it appears I need to file a bug with the maintainer of the widget, maybe not a PA problem at all? |
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| 22:45.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | poettering bug, what else |
| 22:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I noticed alsamixer mute was not able to unmute, back when I did https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/twinklephone/conversations/topics/1731 |
| 22:47.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | so maybe actually alsa bug? |
| 22:47.20 | Evilham | remember that issue I was having a few hours ago with apt-get not authenticating packages? |
| 22:47.26 | Evilham | it needed an apt-get update |
| 22:47.38 | Evilham | now that amprolla is back online, it's solved |
| 22:47.49 | gnarface | whew, one less problem |
| 22:48.36 | gnarface | bozonius: yea it seems possible it could be the widget too. does the widget itself require pulseaudio? |
| 22:49.13 | gnarface | bozonius: my question is, does it still behave that way outside the VM? |
| 22:49.40 | gnarface | of course there's no rule that says it can't be a bug in both things |
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| 22:57.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn you yahoo! mangled the .asoundrc softvol for "email obfuscation" |
| 22:58.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/25028123/ here you are (uncomment it and append to ~/asoundrc) |
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| 23:03.00 | gnarface | bozonius: if the widget itself also works with bare alsa and elicits the same secret-muting behavior, then i'd say it's definitely a bug in the widget. otherwise, it's not so clear. |
| 23:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | the alsa device to use is then: vol:MyAudio,"default" where "MyAudio" is the arbitrary volcontrol name that creates a new volume control if it doesn't already exist, and ,"default" is the optional ALSA audio sink, usually "default" |
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| 23:15.42 | aitor | DocScrutinizer05: you are german, it's late for you |
| 23:17.07 | *** part/#devuan catprints (~realperso@172.58.83.226) |
| 23:18.51 | aitor | oh, he's asleep :) |
| 23:19.17 | golinux | He's a bot that never sleeps |
| 23:20.49 | aitor | does he live in both hemispheres at the same time, like you? |
| 23:22.59 | aitor | living amongst armadillos? |
| 23:23.09 | golinux | LOL! |
| 23:24.07 | *** join/#devuan Schallaven (~Schallave@ip-198-96-36-15.dynamic.yorku.ca) |
| 23:24.21 | aitor | both you are migrating species !! |
| 23:24.35 | aitor | like swallows |
| 23:24.45 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 23:25.50 | aitor | such a coincidence |
| 23:25.52 | *** join/#devuan earthnative (~nemo@59.167.208.146) |
| 23:26.37 | aitor | bye :) |
| 23:29.26 | Schallaven | hello o/ |
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| 23:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sleep is overrated |
| 23:43.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | people die in their beds |
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| 23:45.06 | Schallaven | as are birthdays |
| 23:45.13 | Schallaven | people with too many birthdays die |
| 23:45.21 | *** join/#devuan Chanku (~Chanku@2601:704:2:a700:21b:77ff:fea3:4a99) |
| 23:45.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I ignore mine |
| 23:45.39 | vvande | that's why you're only allowed one per year |
| 23:46.16 | Xenguy | Shorter of breath, and one year closer to death |
| 23:46.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sun is the same in a relative way |
| 23:46.37 | Xenguy | :-) |
| 23:48.02 | Xenguy | All that cheerful music we used to listen to, cos it's real |
| 23:49.53 | *** join/#devuan vvande (~vvande@167.88.112.90) |
| 23:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://youtu.be/JwYX52BP2Sk |
| 23:55.24 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@61.181.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 23:59.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | with those good old albums U always instantly start to hate the mp3 vivisection of music, and particularly the lack of decent gapless playback in all mediaplayers |