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| 00:19.38 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 01:32.23 | stephen64 | I'm following https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/Minimal-install-guide but I get NO_PUBKEY when I apt-get update. |
| 01:32.44 | stephen64 | is the keyserver keyserver.devuan.org? |
| 01:35.21 | stephen64 | I ask because naively running apt-key against it is giving me an error. |
| 01:37.12 | fsmithred | apt-get install devuan-keyring |
| 01:37.38 | fsmithred | and then update again |
| 01:38.18 | stephen64 | damn, did i misss that in the docs? |
| 01:39.02 | stephen64 | well, doesn't appear to have been on this page anyway |
| 01:39.37 | fsmithred | I'm not sure what's on that page. Been a long time since I've read it. |
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| 02:11.09 | zyliwax | stephen64: his other guide mentions this >> https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/Upgrade-to-Devuan |
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| 02:22.13 | fsmithred | stephen64, did that work for you? |
| 02:24.55 | stephen64 | workkd great on pine64 but there's no jessie image ready to go for the pinebook (that I know of) so i'm going he rootfs route. |
| 02:25.48 | stephen64 | wait, that's not the one I thought it was... |
| 02:26.29 | stephen64 | oh, yeah, comment stands. |
| 02:26.50 | stephen64 | It was just fine on the pine64+ board, went from jessie to devuan with no problem. |
| 02:27.09 | stephen64 | Hm, maybe I should go grab that sd card and adapt that for the pinebook... |
| 02:29.22 | stephen64 | I recalled that the upggrade worked fine even though it didn't mention arm64 or aarch64, so I started making a debootstrap on the pinebook, hoping it would just pick the correct arch and so far stuff is fine in the chroot. |
| 02:29.30 | fsmithred | I don't recall having to add devuan-keyring when I've done a debootstrap install |
| 02:31.18 | stephen64 | I vaguely recall having to do it once before for debian, but I can't remember why. |
| 02:33.55 | fsmithred | I just checked root history in a debootstrap installation, and I didn't add it. |
| 02:34.25 | fsmithred | are you installing in chroot now? |
| 02:34.56 | fsmithred | make sure you have a kernel |
| 02:38.50 | stephen64 | pfft |
| 02:39.01 | stephen64 | make sure I have a kernel... |
| 02:39.03 | stephen64 | I didn't forget. |
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| 02:40.03 | fsmithred | forgetting to make a root password is fun, but forgetting the kernel is not. |
| 02:40.14 | stephen64 | oh, damnit |
| 02:40.15 | stephen64 | err |
| 02:40.19 | stephen64 | I didn't forget that either |
| 02:41.16 | stephen64 | it probably lives on part0 anyway |
| 02:42.11 | stephen64 | err... 1? whatever the zeroeth partition is called. |
| 02:42.34 | stephen64 | I'm just going to use the one it has for now. |
| 02:42.51 | fsmithred | I don't know about arm |
| 02:42.58 | stephen64 | Oh, but I may need to copy the modules over. |
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| 02:44.02 | stephen64 | Why the heck are all these arm systems running 3.x kernels anyway? |
| 02:44.11 | fsmithred | jessie |
| 02:44.41 | stephen64 | oh |
| 02:45.01 | fsmithred | check backports for newer (4.9) |
| 02:45.02 | stephen64 | Nah, this one is running ubuntu xenial mate or something |
| 02:45.15 | stephen64 | I am not a fan of ubuntu anymore. |
| 02:45.32 | stephen64 | if they had just shipped it with jessie i'd be done by now. |
| 02:45.35 | fsmithred | dapper was great |
| 02:47.11 | stephen64 | hm, just a few feet over and I lose connection |
| 02:50.33 | fsmithred | bed time here. good luck. |
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| 10:55.50 | kolp | hi. is there basically the same software in devuan jessie as in debian jessie? i.e. kde 4, etc? |
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| 11:07.44 | gnarface | kolp: more or less, yes |
| 11:07.58 | gnarface | kolp: just a couple exceptions, they're listed on the webpage |
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| 11:14.15 | kolp | gnarface: ok, thanks |
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| 11:46.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | RFC: |
| 11:46.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | !devuan |
| 11:46.10 | infobot | devuan https://devuan.org literally mirrors debian in realtime ("all the same") except replacing packages with systemd-dependencies, and it introduces its own themes and branding |
| 11:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | when we can't get that on the website, we should at least get it as factoid. I'm getting tired typing it each time |
| 11:49.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | changed |
| 11:49.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | !devuan |
| 11:49.44 | infobot | devuan https://devuan.org literally mirrors debian in realtime ("all the same") except replacing packages with systemd-dependencies, and it introduces its own themes and branding. Also see factoid (~/!)amprolla |
| 11:50.31 | tdm4 | !debian-fork |
| 11:50.35 | tdm4 | awww |
| 11:51.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | !listvalues debian*fork |
| 11:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | note how devuan in technical aspects (despite all the gossip and bickering) is NOT REALLY a fork |
| 11:53.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | technicaly it's a meta distro layered above plain debian |
| 11:53.48 | DusXMT | We'd need an incredible amount of manpower to create a "real" fork, maintaining all the packages ourselves |
| 11:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 11:54.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody wants a "real fork" |
| 11:54.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is worth absoilutely nothing, as long as you don't want to _change_ everything |
| 11:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. foing dpkg->rpm might be a reason for a real fork |
| 11:55.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | going* |
| 11:55.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I heard no plans for any such thing |
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| 11:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | moving avail from core libs (glibc etc) to sth alternative would be a reason for a fork |
| 11:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/avail/away/ /me needs more coffee |
| 11:59.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean the VUAs didn't start devuan because they despise or hate debian, they *love* debian and thought it needs help to stay the way it was when it was at its best. Thus no fork but a meta distro |
| 12:02.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | kolp: kde4 is a problem since it has some systemd dependencies, but what I heard from devels, those are manageable and eventually devuan will have kde4 too |
| 12:03.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, KDE4 is quite a bunch of apps, right? |
| 12:04.34 | kolp | DocScrutinizer05: I am giving it a try right now. we'll see how it goes. |
| 12:04.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the network manager systray applet is one obvious candidate for systemd creeping in |
| 12:06.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | notifications via audio (Polyp Audio) might also pull in systemd |
| 12:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | power and session management comes to mind (shutdown, suspend, hybernate. Lock screen, switch user, etc) |
| 12:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | your best bet might be to ignore / break dependencies and force-install KDE, then see what breaks |
| 12:15.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you look into trinity, those folks seem to follow a somewhat similar mindset regarding KDE as devuan's mindset regarding devuan. And they started in times when systemd wasn't a thing |
| 12:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | orders the power user package, expanding hours per day by more than factor 4, to a full 100h |
| 12:19.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | DANG! some dude who claims his office is up in the sky AIUI just tells me my current contract has a 80 years notice period to cancel/change, so no upgrade for me |
| 12:22.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | !tell kolp about amprolla |
| 12:24.24 | bluemarlin | polyp audio .. that sounds omnious |
| 12:28.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe they renamed it shortly after I put it on my blacklist ;-) |
| 12:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | recently I got mild bashing as "dinosaur" when I used the term sysop instead of admin |
| 12:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I already forgot what we called the stuff we now call "app", before we did that |
| 12:31.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | "program" maybe? |
| 12:31.18 | DusXMT | thought "app" is the name of a "program" for a phone? |
| 12:31.42 | DusXMT | My ears don't like the word :) |
| 12:31.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 12:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | too many words with negative connotation sound very similar to "app" ;-) |
| 12:32.46 | gnarface | i think originally the idea was an "app" was like a mini-program. not really a technical definition, more a marketing one. then shortly after applebee's started trying to convince everyone that appetizers are ALSO "apps" there was quickly a global grassroots push to start calling everything an "app" |
| 12:33.16 | gnarface | now an "app" is just anything that's cool that is more complex than a jpeg, basically |
| 12:33.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:35.04 | DusXMT | When I hear the word "app", I imagine a consumer product :) |
| 12:35.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/polypaudio-lwn.html ;-P |
| 12:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | +f |
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| 12:36.13 | bluemarlin | whoa it's a real thing. I assumed that was a joke name for pulse. Why would someone name program so gross |
| 12:36.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | a guy in maemo actually made a package manager called "fappman" (or was it "fapman"?) faster app manager |
| 12:37.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | assuming. I get lots of bashing because others do ;-D |
| 12:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | !fapman |
| 12:38.41 | infobot | fapman is, like, Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU), or actually for anything since ~speedyHAM. It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. In short, it's been identified as source of system corruption and thus deprecated, or see ~hamvsfam |
| 12:39.31 | Capricornus | am I the only one thinking that "fapman" isn't an appropriate name for a program? |
| 12:39.41 | DusXMT | Sounds like a pacman clone to me |
| 12:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha, no |
| 12:39.49 | DusXMT | :) |
| 12:40.04 | bluemarlin | Capricornus: nope... it's like naming a music player 'earfuk' |
| 12:40.29 | Capricornus | good grief, devs sometimes choose opinable names :D |
| 12:40.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | they renamed it "fam" |
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| 12:40.48 | DusXMT | Or perhaps an image or video viewer "rectal erector" :3 |
| 12:40.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | like Poettering renamed his crap Polyp->Pulse |
| 12:41.11 | gnarface | ffmpeg? |
| 12:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, fam/fapman is *deprecated* and onsolete ;-D |
| 12:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | obsolete even |
| 12:43.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and PA is despised and useless ;-P |
| 12:45.48 | DusXMT | It has _one_ useful feature: being able to adjust the volumes of different clients separately... but a lot of programs provide a built-in volume control |
| 12:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | literally every single point of argumentation Poettering listed for the need to invent PA was either moot from beginning or never got fulfilled by PA (stability, for the latter). Over 90% were both, moot _and_ never been delivered on, IOW PA was actually introducing the problems it incorrectly claimed to be in ALSA |
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| 12:47.14 | Capricornus | personally I like using pavucontrol: it also allows you to boost volume above the application's 100% |
| 12:47.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | DusXMT: nope, ALSA can do that just fine, I published a short howto |
| 12:48.13 | DusXMT | Also, one might argue that it helps developers write programs that'll have sound support on all unix platforms, but then again, libalsa can work on top of OSS/possibly-other-sound-systems as well :) (as is the case in NetBSD) |
| 12:48.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/twinklephone/conversations/topics/1731 |
| 12:51.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | it even is better (at least in my book) than PA, in that the volume sliders in mixer are also available before and after an app opened a (short time) audio stream |
| 12:51.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you can adjust the volume *before* you start playing sound |
| 12:52.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | try to adjust notification sounds in PA when the sound even is only a 0.5s long ;-P |
| 12:52.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | event* |
| 12:53.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | note how my approach could work fully "automatic" by simply replacing the fixed string slider name in .asoundrc by a function refurning the app name for example |
| 12:54.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | PROGRAM name, or better process name |
| 12:55.33 | DusXMT | still finds it amusing that (lib)alsa works more or less just fine on non-Linux systems :) |
| 12:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there was always (working, at the time PA got introduced) dmix in also, so no need for polyp audio to "fix" that. And the "you can't determine the buffer delay in ALSA" argument is completely moot too |
| 13:01.50 | cyteen | ls |
| 13:01.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically polyp audio was the test run for systemd, already doing all the awesome stuff like hijacking and monopolizing a system, while same time the new stuff is inferior to all that been there already |
| 13:03.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | *PLUS* making a lot of fanbois cheer it up, denying all the definciencies it has |
| 13:03.51 | DusXMT | I remember, back when I first started using Ubuntu in 2008, pulseaudio would become a zombie process that there would be no way to kill; imagine a complete newbie trying to figure out what to do with such a situation |
| 13:04.02 | DusXMT | (after crashing) |
| 13:04.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 13:05.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | around same time, with PA audio events sometimes were played on my PC literally dozens of hours after the right time. Awesome, isn't it? |
| 13:05.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly when zombies reaped eventuially ;-P |
| 13:06.26 | DusXMT | Oh, I know what pulse is for, to get rid of the zombie and reinstate pulseaudio when it loses control :) |
| 13:06.32 | DusXMT | *what systemd is for |
| 13:06.47 | gnarface | that's exactly what it's for actually |
| 13:06.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, that's a good one |
| 13:07.00 | gnarface | this is the real secret behind systemd's adoption |
| 13:07.12 | gnarface | it caters to developers who are too lazy to make a program not crash |
| 13:07.40 | gnarface | (since making a program safely respawn with the sysv setup i guess required knowledge of BASH which is "yucky") |
| 13:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | like making audio mix streams and provide per-process volume needs knowledge of ALSA which is as well "yucky" |
| 13:08.42 | gnarface | i don't like what it says about humanity, but that's where we're at. the world where what wins in the court of public opinion is whatever is just below the threshold of sustainable competence |
| 13:09.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | mantra of the day. very true |
| 13:11.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels tempted to find an official No-Poettering flavor / spinoff of devuan |
| 13:12.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | PA, avahi, systemd. I guess I can find a few more from same author I rather would _not_ want to have in my system |
| 13:17.19 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: here's lennartware in gentoo: http://sprunge.us/hNVd |
| 13:17.38 | parazyd | the more obscure ones, of course, besides avahi/systemd/pulseaudio |
| 13:17.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | TA! just pestered the useless bot with dauthor, to no success |
| 13:18.20 | parazyd | http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects |
| 13:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess the bot bitrots when even stuff like dauthor doesn't work anymore |
| 13:20.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | !poetteringware is also http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects |
| 13:20.32 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:21.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | the URL name actually already< gives it away ;-P I mean "zero pointer" really now? Why not fapman? |
| 13:23.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, it starts to qualify for "take it to #debianfork!!!" |
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| 15:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | kde devels, oh my. khotkeys accepts FQN from file browser requester and then sends that stuff to system() or whatever (in "action") http://wstaw.org/m/2017/06/24/plasma-desktopfw8317.png |
| 15:17.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | >"/bin/rm -rf / " |
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| 15:18.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really wonder if linux filesystems should get fixed to simply always convert spaces to _ in all filenames |
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| 15:19.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | creates sone new obscure problems, but solves a facter 1000 more than it creates |
| 15:20.15 | zdzichu | i recently read a comprehensive article about dangers of filenames |
| 15:20.22 | zdzichu | and what should be done about them |
| 15:20.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | share? |
| 15:20.30 | zdzichu | let me find it |
| 15:20.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ta |
| 15:21.03 | zdzichu | https://www.dwheeler.com/essays/fixing-unix-linux-filenames.html that would be it |
| 15:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ta again |
| 15:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, already had that :-) |
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| 15:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> I think that we should modify the filesystem rules, and POSIX tools ...<< |
| 15:27.12 | gnarface | to fix what is obviously a bug in a random file manager? |
| 15:29.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>I I then examined the Portable Filename Character Set, defined in 3.276 (âPortable Filename Character Setâ); this turns out to be just A-Z, a-z, 0-9, <period>, <underscore>, and <hyphen> (aka the dash character). So itâs perfectly okay for a POSIX system to reject a non-portable filename due to it having âoddâ characters or a leading hyphen.<< |
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| 15:31.30 | gnarface | same for ID and CLASS values in *HTML but in practice, nobody has made an implementation that limited since netscape 4 |
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| 15:32.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I could think of mount fs options oddchar-sanitize and oddchar-reject, where a fs mounted -o oddchar-sanitize would convert all odd chars to underlines and a fs mounted -o oddchar-reject throws error whenever it encounters such odd char filename |
| 15:32.31 | zdzichu | uhm, gnarface, did you read the rest of the essay? |
| 15:32.39 | gnarface | zdzichu: no |
| 15:34.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | question: what's the behavior of read() etc on a oddchar-reject fs when a filename on storage already has an odd char? |
| 15:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather, open() |
| 15:35.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | would it throw error but succeed nevertheless? would it silently ignore all together, or would it even try to fix by renaming the file on storage (prolly not the latter) |
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| 15:39.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.dwheeler.com/essays/bad-filename.c |
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| 15:44.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Manual page mkfs.fat(8) >>AUTHOR Dave Hudson - <dave@humbug.demon.co.uk>; modified by Peter Anvin <hpa@yggdrasil.com>. Fixes and additions by Roman Hodek <roman@hodek.net> for Debian GNU/Linux. /n ACKNOWLEDGMENTS mkfs.fat is based on code from mke2fs (written by Remy Card - <card@masi.ibp.fr>) which is itself based on mkfs (written by Linus Torvalds - <torvalds@cs.helsinki.fi>).<< Those guys knew their business, eh? |
| 15:49.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I claim authorship of the idea for mount options oddchar-reject and oddchar-sanitize in _all_ linux filesystems ;-) |
| 15:51.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I think a open() **for read** with a oddchar filename on a fs mounted -o oddchar-reject should succeed. |
| 15:52.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | open() for write on fs -o oddchar-reject should do sanitize when the file exists, thus renaming the file implicitly |
| 15:53.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the latter needs more pondering |
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| 16:24.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>One reader of this essay suggested that GUIs should transparently convert spaces to underscores when creating a file, reversing this when displaying a filename. Itâs an interesting idea. However, I fear that some evil person will create multiple files in one directory which only differ because one uses spaces and the other uses underscores. That might look okay, but would create opportunity for confusion in the future. Thus, I |
| 16:24.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | havenât recommended this apporoach.<< I'd be willing to live with this risk, happily ever on |
| 16:25.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | not the GUI, the fs itself should unconditionally replace all odd chars by underscores |
| 16:25.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | both on reading and writing dirs |
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| 16:30.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now I ponder a cmdline tool doing a recursive filename sanitizing on storage. possibly run in cron.hourly or cron.daily |
| 16:36.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even via inotify-wait in a daemon script |
| 16:44.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | BLARGH! /proc/sys/fs/inotify/max_user_watches default 8192 |
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| 18:40.47 | msiism | will downloading devuan using the release torrent automatically fetch the checksum file and its signature file? |
| 18:42.33 | parazyd | yeah |
| 18:43.01 | parazyd | provided you don't deselect the files in your torrent client |
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| 18:43.25 | msiism | ok |
| 18:44.28 | msiism | that also goes for the magnet link then, i suppose |
| 18:44.40 | parazyd | indeed. they're the same torrent |
| 18:45.45 | msiism | parazyd: ok. i still need to figure out how all that actually works. i've never used it so far. |
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| 18:49.41 | parazyd | :) |
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| 19:15.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | then download from a mirror? |
| 19:15.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | mine has *plemty* of bandwidth :-) |
| 19:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | though yesterday I actually first time received a traffic warning. I've set the threshoild to iirc 200GB out of the 5TB I'm allowed per month |
| 19:18.18 | msiism | DocScrutinizer: right. still, i need to know a bit about how torrent/magent work or what they are, so i have some background knowledge when i write documentation. |
| 19:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so download all you like, via wget :-) |
| 19:18.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah ok, yeah |
| 19:19.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I only know torrents from kde ktorrent and the torrent client I once ran on my mirror |
| 19:19.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | the latter was a PITA to get running |
| 19:23.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm nope, 100GB http://wstaw.org/m/2017/06/24/plasma-desktopVd8317.png |
| 19:23.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so already 3% of allowed traffic used up on 23rd of month |
| 19:25.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | (allowed traffic: 30TB) |
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| 19:37.15 | abcabc | why is thttpd not in most debian main package lists? |
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| 22:54.27 | guru | it would be cool to see this channel peek at a higher number |
| 22:54.37 | guru | debian is always in the thousands |
| 22:55.38 | guru | some guys are on there 24/7 helping people i wonder if the foundation behind it pays them |
| 22:55.42 | guru | ie: jelly |
| 22:58.36 | tallship | golinux: pong |
| 23:05.48 | sedrosken | 217 people isn't a small amount either guru |
| 23:05.58 | sedrosken | more than I was expecting by far |
| 23:06.06 | sedrosken | considering arch-openrc has a grand total of... |
| 23:06.08 | sedrosken | checks |
| 23:06.18 | sedrosken | 7 people, including myself |
| 23:06.48 | guru | ;) |
| 23:07.24 | jelly | sorry? |
| 23:07.33 | guru | oh wow he's here too |
| 23:07.44 | jelly | I'm everywhere. |
| 23:07.44 | guru | you and another guy i see assisting people all the time in debian |
| 23:07.52 | guru | i'm impressed lol |
| 23:08.00 | sedrosken | currently setting up a copy of devuan on my old C2D laptop to kick around and see if I can get runit working and some other stuff I was wanting |
| 23:08.09 | guru | i figured you were debian community staff |
| 23:08.10 | jelly | guru: and no, not getting paid for it |
| 23:08.11 | sedrosken | I'm seriously considering migrating from arch-openrc |
| 23:08.42 | sedrosken | as it does nothing to avoid the ages-old arch problem of updates consistently breaking things |
| 23:09.10 | jelly | guru: I've had exactly two times someone wanted to accept my paid support hourly prices. |
| 23:09.13 | sedrosken | and I got so fed up with this last round that the AUR is not successfully keeping me around |
| 23:09.27 | guru | jelly: sorry to hear that |
| 23:09.59 | guru | without people like you I would be screwed |
| 23:10.09 | guru | there's 3 major contributors I see in that channel |
| 23:10.10 | sedrosken | indeed, same here |
| 23:10.12 | guru | you're one of them |
| 23:10.39 | guru | thankfully 1/3 are in this channel |
| 23:10.52 | jelly | don't mind people that are willing to learn and show they tried to research things themselves, but hand holding in PM starts at $100/hr |
| 23:11.15 | guru | sounds fair to me |
| 23:11.33 | guru | that's a fair price in the event of an emergency |
| 23:11.39 | guru | i'll keep it in mind |
| 23:12.08 | jelly | that's standard fare, goverment takes half of that away if I want to be legal |
| 23:12.40 | sedrosken | what government do you live under where the tax rate is 50%? i know the US is bad, but wow |
| 23:12.47 | guru | maybe denmark |
| 23:13.08 | guru | paypal only reports if you exceed 10k though |
| 23:13.21 | guru | that would be the wise choice |
| 23:13.51 | jelly | US isn't bad, you can choose not ignore your medical and pension if you want to :-) |
| 23:13.56 | jelly | s/not/to/ |
| 23:14.16 | jelly | most of eu, all that stuff is mandatory |
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| 23:15.26 | golinux | Want to take this OT chat to #debianfork? |
| 23:15.49 | guru | nah |
| 23:15.52 | guru | i'll just not talk about it |
| 23:15.57 | guru | :P |
| 23:16.00 | jelly | I'm done, just woke up on highlight |
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| 23:16.54 | sedrosken | I'm done here too |
| 23:21.22 | [guru] | is there a target for an ascii relax or when it's done? |
| 23:21.27 | [guru] | -release |
| 23:21.33 | [guru] | lol i was typing relax in another chat sorry |
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| 23:36.17 | gnarface | [guru]: when it's done, just like jessie |
| 23:36.36 | gnarface | [guru]: in debian they say "sooner if you help" which we should probably start saying here too |
| 23:37.23 | [guru] | ah |
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| 23:38.02 | gnarface | for the time being i think it's still recommended you stick with jessie for mission-critical/production systems |
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