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| 00:21.42 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 01:05.23 | golinux | Happy solstice everyone! |
| 01:15.33 | NewGnuGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:15.33 | NewGnuGuy | -- O -- Summer is here |
| 01:15.33 | NewGnuGuy | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:19.45 | golinux | Actually shortening days are here . . . |
| 01:20.30 | NewGnuGuy | golinux: Southern hemisphere? |
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| 01:24.47 | golinux | Nope north. |
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| 01:28.30 | NewGnuGuy | Oh. This is the longest day and now the length of days slowly decreases, right? |
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| 01:39.04 | golinux | Exactamento |
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| 01:46.43 | Xenguy | But nevertheless, summer is here :) |
| 01:53.01 | jonadab | Astronomically speaking, we just passed the middle of summer. However, the actual weather lags behind that, because of the time it takes for stuff to heat up and cool down. |
| 01:54.30 | Xenguy | Well I always thought that summer 'started' on the solstice, but w/e, there are different views |
| 01:55.41 | Xenguy | But yeah, makes sense, we are at the peak of summer, hrm |
| 01:56.13 | Xenguy | Maybe Spring ends sooner than I thought :) |
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| 02:29.30 | __stephe1 | Is it possible to migrate any of the newer debians to devuan? |
| 02:29.39 | __stephe1 | wow, what the heck happened to my user name... |
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| 02:39.43 | NewGnuGuy | _stephen: Debian Jessie to Devuan Jessie, yes. Debian Stretch to Devuan ASCII, not yet. |
| 02:40.39 | NewGnuGuy | Also Debian Wheezy to Devuan Jessie works, I believe |
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| 04:10.37 | twax | Hi guys. If I put the jesse, will it be problematic to upgrade to 9? |
| 04:12.16 | furrywolf | it shouldn't be, but 9 isn't done yet. |
| 04:13.06 | twax | ah, ok |
| 04:13.12 | twax | can I read somewhere about the development plans? |
| 04:13.39 | twax | on dev1galaxy? |
| 04:13.45 | furrywolf | probably, but I have no idea. lol |
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| 04:15.33 | furrywolf | dan probably knows. :) |
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| 04:31.24 | zyliwax | hmm just upgraded a debian wheezy system to devuan jessie but i can't uninstall systemd grr |
| 04:31.43 | zyliwax | "systemd is the active init system, please switch to another before removing systemd." << is my error message |
| 04:32.06 | zyliwax | researching how to do so now ... |
| 04:38.32 | furrywolf | bbl, wolfy bedtime |
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| 05:07.59 | Centurion_Dan | zyliwax: you need to do a dist-upgrade and then reboot before you can remove the systemd-sysv and systemd packages |
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| 05:13.10 | zyliwax | Centurion_Dan: hm i had done all that but i'm being asked to do another (massive) one |
| 05:13.21 | zyliwax | that looks suspiciously similar to my previous one |
| 05:14.47 | zyliwax | alternative is i use arm-sdk to build an image for direct flashing to my device (none on website for beaglebone black, seems unsupported and would require more work) |
| 05:15.52 | zyliwax | ah yes that dist-upgrade failed with the same reason 'systemd is the active init system...' |
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| 05:16.03 | zyliwax | this might be a chicken and egg problem :( |
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| 05:17.25 | zyliwax | or perhaps a debian jessie > devuan jessie install is cleaner, i can flash beaglebone's debian jessie image and upgrade to dev1 jessie |
| 05:18.08 | zyliwax | yeah it happened again, looks like systemd is using apt to block its removal! |
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| 05:19.37 | T-wax | for update to "ascii" i should switch distroname in souorces? |
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| 05:24.47 | gnarface | zyliwax: try installing sysvinit-core first |
| 05:25.54 | gnarface | T-wax: yes |
| 05:31.32 | zyliwax | gnarface: rolling with your suggestion now -- installed sysvinit-core, rebooted, and am attempting dist-upgrade now |
| 05:31.51 | T-wax | @gnarface thanks |
| 05:32.55 | zyliwax | this thing has trouble processing the huge load of packages it's being asked to install :( it might be more efficient/possible to reflash eMMC then go jessie > jessie |
| 05:33.09 | zyliwax | (not related issues i know :) |
| 05:39.18 | zyliwax | gnarface: thanks for the suggestion but it failed :( same message every time "systemd is the active init system" |
| 05:40.48 | gnarface | zyliwax: hmm. in theory there should be some way to change it, maybe it's broken. but try dpkg-reconfigure sysvinit or something like that? |
| 05:41.09 | gnarface | zyliwax: i thought there was also a package from devuan that did it |
| 05:43.26 | zyliwax | gnarface: i did try that command against -core, i just tried it against sysvinit, same output each time: |
| 05:43.35 | zyliwax | "Not restarting sysvinit" |
| 05:43.53 | gnarface | hmmm. interesting |
| 05:44.08 | zyliwax | i'm attempting to build an image using arm-sdk so this might be a moot point |
| 05:44.13 | gnarface | what if you now try this? apt-get purge systemd-sysv |
| 05:44.42 | zyliwax | but the build didn't succeed last time so not holding out too much hope |
| 05:44.52 | zyliwax | (yeah it just failed) |
| 05:45.30 | zyliwax | oh wait maybe... hang on my brain is single-threaded |
| 05:51.32 | zyliwax | yeah build failed, seems to fail at "chroot: failed to run command '/debootstrap/debootstrap': Exec format error" despite that being a shell script :? (maybe it's calling something with an unsupported arch? does this need to be built on an actual arm system?) |
| 05:52.19 | zyliwax | purge also failed "Package 'systemd-sysv' is not installed, so not removed" |
| 05:52.45 | gnarface | ok |
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| 05:52.49 | gnarface | so to clarify |
| 05:52.55 | gnarface | if when listing packages |
| 05:53.18 | gnarface | with you don't see "ii" in the left column of the output of dpkg -l |
| 05:53.27 | gnarface | then it's not completely installed |
| 05:53.29 | gnarface | or it's been removed |
| 05:53.40 | gnarface | and also |
| 05:53.54 | gnarface | debian's debootstrap last i heard doesn't work on devuan's sources |
| 05:54.35 | zyliwax | dpkg -l systemd shows it with "ri" |
| 05:54.39 | gnarface | there used to be a package listed on devuan.org you could download and install to debian that would force systemd out, but i can't find it again |
| 05:55.00 | zyliwax | this system shipped with debian wheezy so it shouldn't have been debootstrapped |
| 05:55.34 | gnarface | i can't tell you why it's trying to run debootstrap, just that if you point it at the devaun sources before you have the devuan debootstrap, it's expected to fail |
| 05:55.56 | gnarface | (the converse is not true though; devuan's debootstrap works fine with debian sources) |
| 05:58.28 | zyliwax | eh, i'm going to take it easy and simply reflash eMMC with debian jessie then attempt migrating that way |
| 05:58.36 | gnarface | i guess it's probably also worth mentioning that you should have made sure you were fully up-to-date with debian before switching the sources to devuan |
| 05:58.36 | zyliwax | this install has become a mess anyway |
| 05:58.50 | gnarface | it could have started long ago if you mixed distros/repo versions |
| 05:59.06 | zyliwax | yeah i attempted wheezy > devuan jessie based on a previous suggestion in this channel |
| 05:59.20 | zyliwax | wel, so much for that :) time to activate what should have been plan a :D |
| 05:59.45 | gnarface | this should have worked, but you're right that it'll probably take longer to figure out where the mistake happened than it will to start over |
| 06:01.00 | zyliwax | so my plan is now 1) reflash with official debian jessie image 2) do a full dist-upgrade of that system 3) change sources over to devuan and do another update && dist-upgrade |
| 06:02.24 | gnarface | it might work |
| 06:02.47 | gnarface | i should say, it SHOULD work, but i'm not familiar enough with that particular ARM device to know if it might need a specially compiled image first |
| 06:04.16 | gnarface | for example, see that at several other such ARM devices have a dedicated image: https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_jessie/embedded/ |
| 06:04.32 | gnarface | (link is to the first mirror, but that path should work on any devuan mirror) |
| 06:05.28 | zyliwax | yeah, just not mine :'( |
| 06:05.56 | zyliwax | by official i mean it's coming from the vendor themselves |
| 06:06.26 | zyliwax | might scare up the arm-sdk devs with the issues surrounding that system when they arrive (and this plan doesn't work) |
| 06:07.00 | gnarface | as far as i know, the only difference between devices that have a image posted there and devices that don't is someone has donated a build device for those |
| 06:09.26 | zyliwax | i can't seem to build the beaglebone black on my devuan system, maybe it's my libre kernel (not) doing something it's (not) supposed to |
| 06:09.43 | gnarface | hmmm is the devuan image x86? |
| 06:09.50 | gnarface | er, devuan system, i mean? |
| 06:10.01 | zyliwax | my install? it's amd64 on a core2duo |
| 06:10.21 | gnarface | yea, i had been lead to believe you that you can't actually build ARM images on non-ARM hardware |
| 06:10.32 | gnarface | i could be wrong about that though |
| 06:10.37 | zyliwax | aye the guide talks about crossdev |
| 06:10.44 | zyliwax | so i was all "let's do this!" |
| 06:11.02 | gnarface | i tried to accomplish it for my palm pilot once, years ago, and still have not figured out the trick |
| 06:11.19 | DusXMT | It's easy enough to get a virtual machine running imho; of course, with no hardware acceleration (because incompatible architectures), it's going to take a while |
| 06:12.25 | DusXMT | found general purpose cross-compiling to always be a hit-and-miss, it's a very delicate process, and even when you get it to work sometimes, you'll come across odd glitches and bugs |
| 06:13.03 | zyliwax | heh, well maybe i'll start hammering my poor weak arm cpu with a build once it's actually running devuan :) |
| 06:13.30 | DusXMT | I used to run Gentoo on an old Raspberry Pi, took it like a champ :) |
| 06:13.39 | DusXMT | (and even now I compile packages on netbsd with it) |
| 06:13.54 | zyliwax | can't spin up a vm atm, not enough cpu cycles (gentoo rebuild) |
| 06:14.45 | DusXMT | What's interesting is that, monitoring the power usage, the CPU doesn't really seem to be using any more noticable amount of current when under a load and when not, the hard drive makes the most difference |
| 06:15.27 | zyliwax | heh are there even any arm devices with proper hdds? |
| 06:15.41 | DusXMT | Well, you can always attach your own |
| 06:15.48 | zyliwax | over usb |
| 06:15.59 | zyliwax | anything sata? this is mostly a rhetorical question |
| 06:16.30 | DusXMT | With the SD card acting as a boot partition, it's easy enough to have the entire system installed on the hdd and leave the sd card unmounted |
| 06:17.57 | DusXMT | Also, USB 3.0 is pretty darn fast, so if you have an arm device with that, then sata isn't even neccessary |
| 06:18.14 | DusXMT | (this raspi has usb 2.0 though, still fast enough to be _very_ usable) |
| 06:19.15 | zyliwax | yeah i don't have any usb 3.0 devices, never felt like i needed one |
| 06:19.50 | zyliwax | looks like my device is trucking along with an eMMC flash, will report back with further details as they emerge |
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| 07:37.39 | T-wax | hello again guys. I need some help. I was switch repos to ascii, all system was upgraded, all is working awesome. But when i try to install nvidia-legacy driver i had a this message "Module build for kernel 3.16.0-4-amd64 was skipped since the |
| 07:37.39 | T-wax | kernel headers for this kernel does not seem to be installed." |
| 07:38.15 | T-wax | but linux-headers-3.16.0-4-amd64 is not in ascii repos? |
| 07:39.03 | T-wax | hmmm |
| 07:39.16 | T-wax | should i use the jessie-backports repo? |
| 07:39.24 | T-wax | or... |
| 07:46.51 | T-wax | or i should install current "linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64" with "linux-headers-amd64" ? |
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| 08:40.18 | gnarface | if T-wax comes back tell him to try the latter first |
| 08:40.31 | gnarface | tell him to make sure that's actually the kernel he's running though |
| 08:40.38 | gnarface | (uname -a) |
| 08:40.43 | Chanku | waves |
| 08:41.10 | zyliwax | so it looks like the upgrade went well --- but i didn't see any network interfaces come up :) |
| 08:41.33 | zyliwax | i reflashed back to debian not thinking to attempt serial access next but that's my plan |
| 08:41.46 | zyliwax | (after upgrading again lol) |
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| 08:52.10 | gnarface | if you got it to actually boot devuan and all that wasn't working was the network device, flashing it back to debian was probably a mistake, zyliwax |
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| 08:53.58 | brig | Morning |
| 08:55.03 | zyliwax | gnarface: most likely, oh well :( |
| 08:55.16 | parazyd | https://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/systemd_on_devuan.png |
| 08:55.33 | zyliwax | problem is i lack a micro hdmi cable, which is the only graphical output available |
| 08:55.44 | gnarface | oh, i imagine that is probably a pain in the ass |
| 08:56.15 | gnarface | my original pi at least has composite output, for emergencies |
| 08:56.27 | gnarface | (which the raspbian firmware causes, a LOT) |
| 08:56.34 | zyliwax | i *could* go at it blindly with just a usb keyboard lol |
| 08:56.52 | gnarface | well you could also try to patch into the hdmi jack manually with some bare wires... |
| 08:57.00 | brig | Yeah docky exists in the repos |
| 08:57.03 | gnarface | that's above my head, but i think it only takes 4 wires to get video |
| 08:57.12 | gnarface | (as opposed to 2 with composite) |
| 08:57.20 | zyliwax | yeah i would probably ruin something in the process |
| 08:57.23 | gnarface | you might need a resistor or something |
| 08:57.40 | gnarface | i'm sure the documentation exists, but it'll probably be easier to just get a mini hdmi cable |
| 08:57.50 | zyliwax | i checked it out, a micro<>regular doohicky is only just north of USD 2 |
| 08:58.07 | gnarface | definitely cheaper than the time to fabricate |
| 08:58.08 | brig | okay nevermind docky is completely broken |
| 08:58.16 | brig | guess ill just use an xfce panel with launchers |
| 08:58.21 | zyliwax | gnarface: mini and micro are two different things :) if it had a mini i'd be home free by now |
| 08:58.58 | gnarface | ah, noted |
| 08:59.22 | zyliwax | i even have a mini<>regular doohicky! |
| 08:59.55 | zyliwax | this is a conundrum, but hopefully one that can be solved with some clever configuration pre-reboot or the ftdi serial doohicky |
| 09:02.39 | zyliwax | or i can just bypass the converter and get a lol 1.5' micro hdmi cable for even cheaper |
| 09:03.18 | zyliwax | (but shipping unknown) |
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| 09:07.25 | brig | Devuans just getting better |
| 09:09.47 | gnarface | zyliwax: oh! you were working on a beaglebone, right? that has GPIO ports doesn't it? I think there's a way to get composite video from GPIO with just 2 wires |
| 09:10.03 | gnarface | zyliwax: at least with the pi there was... sorry i don't know specifics :( |
| 09:10.15 | zyliwax | yeah it has GPIO headers |
| 09:10.21 | gnarface | i know it was supposed to be one of the easiest things you can do with GPIO though |
| 09:10.28 | gnarface | besides blinking lights |
| 09:10.46 | zyliwax | somehow i get the sense that this might require some service to properly start up |
| 09:11.01 | zyliwax | (but maybe that's true of serial i hope not in either case) |
| 09:12.32 | gnarface | well, my experience with such devices was limited to the pi, which ignores kvm and xorg display detection in favor of a proprietary file that is read once at boot time, without which there *isn't* a valid video signal except on the composite output |
| 09:13.11 | gnarface | you might be missing some firmware for the network device perhaps though too (i don't know) so if you have a spare USB ethernet adapter, it's probably worth a try too |
| 09:14.25 | zyliwax | so generally it sets up an network interface on both its ethernet and usb-b connections (which provides power too, making it convenient to use another computer as the source) |
| 09:15.14 | zyliwax | i do have a "belkin easy transfer cable" which was supposed to lol help windows users migrate from vista to 7 or something, but it's actually recognized as a usb network interface under linux |
| 09:15.38 | zyliwax | problem then would be setting the network parameters on the bbb side (generally i do a point-to-point /30) |
| 09:16.20 | brig | Is there anyway to get auto complete on apt? |
| 09:17.03 | zyliwax | ^ wondering that too |
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| 09:21.52 | zyliwax | oh ffs the eth0 configuration is commented out, it probably wasn't even asking for a lease |
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| 09:36.22 | zyliwax | alrighty i have what appears to be a fully devuanized beaglebone black :) |
| 09:36.45 | zyliwax | network connections need some work, it's not even listing the usb0 interface |
| 09:38.52 | djph | zyliwax: is that perhaps because it's a USB cable? |
| 09:39.14 | parazyd | zyliwax: https://raw.github.com/RobertCNelson/tools/master/scripts/beaglebone-black-g-ether-load.sh |
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| 09:41.32 | negev | hi, what is the suggested mitigation for this? https://www.qualys.com/2017/06/19/stack-clash/stack-clash.txt (i'm running ascii if it makes any difference) |
| 09:44.10 | djph | apparently "be good at C" ... |
| 09:46.27 | negev | i was thinking more of a hardened kernel with stack exploit mitigations |
| 09:46.35 | negev | i can't see one in the repo though |
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| 09:50.23 | gnarface | brig: sounds like something you could do with zsh |
| 09:50.58 | DusXMT | gnarface: bash has programmable autocompletions as well |
| 09:51.51 | brig | gnarface: once you start customizing you never finish |
| 09:51.54 | gnarface | zyliwax: wait, so to confirm, you succeeded in upgrading from the debian jessie install? |
| 09:52.04 | brig | Ill get ZSH btw |
| 09:52.18 | brig | I decided to get numix for my window manager and icons and then I started messing with the panel |
| 09:53.22 | DusXMT | brig: that's actually the reason why I often go for minimalism :) (eg. vi instead of vim/emacs, ksh instead of bash, etc) |
| 09:53.49 | brig | The only thing thats really bothering me is the panel items |
| 09:53.53 | DusXMT | 11:51 < brig> gnarface: once you start customizing you never finish |
| 09:54.08 | brig | The battery one doesnt fit my panel, and the WICD thing doesnt either |
| 09:55.52 | gnarface | DusXMT, brig: wasn't that supposed to be rhetorical? because that's what i've always liked about it... |
| 09:56.20 | brig | https://u.teknik.io/CBXar.png |
| 09:56.22 | brig | take a look |
| 09:56.30 | brig | Im not customizing any more |
| 09:56.38 | brig | or else ill fall into an infinite spiral |
| 09:56.46 | brig | of changing themes, fonts etc |
| 09:58.37 | DusXMT | gnarface: I've gotten tired spending long hours fiddling with config files :) |
| 09:58.47 | brig | I was going to just use devuan stock |
| 09:58.51 | brig | but, that went out the window |
| 10:00.51 | *** join/#devuan malinas (~user@137.132.22.252) |
| 10:01.28 | zyliwax | parazyd: that script got my devuan to pretty much instantly realize it had a usb network interface, cheers! |
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| 10:02.23 | zyliwax | gnarface: it looks like i'm on a fully devuanized system now -- systemctl <CR> -bash: systemctl: command not found :D |
| 10:02.52 | gnarface | congrats, zyliwax! |
| 10:03.12 | DusXMT | gnarface: fun fact: I tried 3 times to drink the GNU coolaid and learn to use emacs. But I just wanted to write code, I didn't care about making my own editor, when there already is one that's really efficient and nice once you get enough practice with it (vi). |
| 10:04.13 | DusXMT | (and I said "making my own editor" because emacs is the embodiment of customizability) |
| 10:04.32 | gnarface | eh |
| 10:04.40 | gnarface | i've been satisfied with a fairly simple set of changes |
| 10:05.22 | gnarface | i'm usually running it in a terminal though |
| 10:06.09 | zyliwax | gnarface: thanks for your patient help |
| 10:06.58 | zyliwax | ceres is going to move to Emacs/Hurd :) |
| 10:07.35 | DusXMT | Fun fact: Using Emacs on the Hurd's native console is quite buggy :) |
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| 10:18.23 | brig | DusXMT: I started using spacemacs instead |
| 10:19.15 | parazyd | why spacemacs? |
| 10:22.56 | gnarface | i had to google it since it's not in the repos |
| 10:22.58 | gnarface | is this a joke? |
| 10:25.09 | DusXMT | (I just wanna be clear, I am not against customizability, it's just that it can get tiring (writing autocompletion definitions, maintaining them when your programs change) and overwhelming (emacs) sometimes, but having the option to be able to do it is incredibly important) |
| 10:26.10 | gnarface | well there's certainly an issue especially lately, with increasing frequency of cavalier changes to expected behavior being pushed by what i consider to be "the younger crowd" |
| 10:26.41 | gnarface | sometimes it's worth considering whether a moving target is worth taking aim on in the first place... |
| 10:27.35 | djph | hey! |
| 10:27.45 | djph | we're not all stupidly making cavalier changes |
| 10:28.01 | DusXMT | That's why I love the "stable" model debian/vuan has, you install the system once, and you can be certain that it'll work just fine tomorrow |
| 10:28.11 | DusXMT | (and a good 2-3 years) |
| 10:28.40 | DusXMT | (and I guess I _should_ belong to the younger crowd, as I'm 19 :3) |
| 10:28.44 | gnarface | but i admit that i don't go in for that level of shell customization typically either for this type of thing, because typing "apt-cache search [pattern]" first isn't that big of a deal to me, due to my typing skill, which it's also worth noting that, like emacs, was forced upon me in school by people much smarter than me a long time ago... |
| 10:28.57 | djph | DusXMT: I counter "Debian Stable" with "Systemd" :) |
| 10:29.58 | djph | gnarface: typing was forced on me as well ... I'm still terrible at it. |
| 10:30.24 | DusXMT | I had to learn it myself, since oddly, even though I was on a technical highschool, they didn't teach typing |
| 10:30.57 | DusXMT | Thankfully there's gtypist |
| 10:31.28 | gnarface | i don't know what i would have decided, if i'd bee introduced to a different unix text editor first, or if i had a decision to be made which included saving any time on the matter. by the time i was already comfortable with emacs, it was already too late to make the decision. |
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| 10:32.50 | DusXMT | Heh, I guess the same goes for me with vi :) I tried to learn emacs 3 times, because on paper it sounds great, but my workflow and the way I think when coding and the way I use the editor relies on the editor's characteristics - being small, flexible, light-weight, working anywhere under any circumstances |
| 10:33.37 | gnarface | well there's mg for resource-constrained computers |
| 10:34.02 | DusXMT | Yes, but vi comes pre-installed on almost all UNIX systems, and there's elvis for DOS and windows :) |
| 10:34.20 | gnarface | true |
| 10:34.22 | DusXMT | (not to mention vim, which is a great editor in its own right) |
| 10:34.34 | gnarface | but the lack of a kill ring is a problem |
| 10:34.51 | DusXMT | In vi, you have different buffers into which you can multi-copy |
| 10:34.53 | gnarface | and i can never figure out how to do regex search&replace right |
| 10:35.12 | DusXMT | 26, for each letter in the english alphabet :) |
| 10:35.53 | DusXMT | (and that's something that I use sed for) |
| 10:38.45 | gnarface | ediff merge (interactive diff merge) is pretty useful for saving time on config file maintenance too |
| 10:38.48 | gnarface | not sure if vim has such a thing |
| 10:40.02 | DusXMT | doesn't know much about vim - to vi it's kinda like c++ is to c |
| 10:40.30 | DusXMT | (and whoop, I just noticed that this is #devuan and not #debianfork, oops) |
| 10:41.32 | zyliwax | humble suggestion -- remain #debianfork to #devuan-chat |
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| 11:17.33 | detha | *-social seems to be the common thing on freenode. But yes. |
| 11:17.45 | brig | Ive made mistakes customizing |
| 11:17.52 | brig | now im spending ages not doing work |
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| 11:18.55 | KatolaZ | brig: you should use GNOME 3:> |
| 11:19.10 | KatolaZ | that would solve your customisation problems |
| 11:19.16 | brig | KatolaZ: do I revert back to stop devuan |
| 11:19.21 | brig | stock* |
| 11:19.22 | KatolaZ | (sorry, I couldn't resist) |
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| 11:23.42 | brig | KatolaZ: have you seen what i did to the panel |
| 11:28.33 | KatolaZ | brig? |
| 11:29.51 | brig | https://u.teknik.io/CBXar.png |
| 11:29.53 | brig | KatolaZ: |
| 11:31.41 | KatolaZ | brig: ? |
| 11:31.43 | KatolaZ | cool |
| 11:33.44 | brig | KatolaZ: I kind of undone the magic tho |
| 11:33.50 | brig | Might go back to stok |
| 11:34.02 | brig | stock* |
| 11:40.10 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 11:50.44 | parazyd | KatolaZ: https://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/systemd_on_devuan.png |
| 11:52.15 | KatolaZ | parazyd: uh? |
| 11:52.16 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 11:52.17 | tdm4 | parazyd: that is so wrong |
| 11:52.22 | parazyd | AHAHAHAHAH |
| 11:52.43 | tdm4 | * parazyd has been kicked from #devuan (NO SYSTEMD ALLOWED) |
| 11:52.48 | tdm4 | :P |
| 11:52.56 | KatolaZ | that's a wrapper |
| 11:53.13 | KatolaZ | innit? |
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| 11:59.00 | fsmithred | I was told it's a vm |
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| 12:02.08 | sixwheeledbeast^ | ...and the circus leaves town |
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| 12:02.34 | MinceR | ...and the beat goes on |
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| 12:33.22 | sixwheeledbeast^ | it certainly does :) |
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| 13:43.11 | jonadab | winces |
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| 14:14.04 | jimjamjim | has anyone tried to upgrade from a systemd-less jessie to stretch? |
| 14:14.12 | jimjamjim | how did it go? |
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| 14:39.07 | fsmithred | jimjamjim, it should work ok. Remove the pin on systemd-sysv in /etc/apt/preferences.d/avoid-systemd (or any other files in that dir that pin systemd packages) |
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| 14:44.29 | jimjamjim | fsmithred: are you using systemd-less debian? |
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| 14:44.46 | MinceR | debianless systemd |
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| 14:46.40 | fsmithred | debian, less systemd, otherwise known as devuan |
| 14:48.46 | jimjamjim | https://paste.debian.net/972765/ |
| 14:48.52 | jimjamjim | what else should i pin? |
| 14:50.11 | KatolaZ | jimjamjim: why don't you upgrade to ascii instead of stretch? |
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| 14:52.24 | fsmithred | jimjamjim, you will need to un-pin systemd and especially *systemd* to move to stretch. |
| 14:52.28 | fsmithred | just remove the file |
| 14:53.05 | fsmithred | and same question as KatolaZ asked: why? |
| 14:53.41 | jimjamjim | KatolaZ: its possible to upgrade from debian jessie to devuan? |
| 14:54.00 | KatolaZ | you should upgrade to devuan jessie |
| 14:54.52 | jimjamjim | fsmithred: if i remove the pin.. systemd will be installed! no? |
| 14:55.36 | KatolaZ | jimjamjim: depends on which repos you have enabled in your sources.list |
| 14:55.57 | KatolaZ | if you use exclusively devuan's repos, you cannot receive systemd |
| 14:57.32 | MinceR | receive the sacrament of systemd |
| 14:58.30 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 15:01.41 | jimjamjim | KatolaZ: this is my sources.list https://paste.debian.net/972766/ |
| 15:02.20 | jimjamjim | without the pin.. systemd will be installed! |
| 15:03.08 | sixwheeledbeast^ | But not if you use the devuan repos to upgrade |
| 15:03.25 | KatolaZ | jimjamjim: have you read what I wrote above? |
| 15:03.41 | KatolaZ | you are using Debian's repos |
| 15:03.53 | KatolaZ | so you get Debian's package choices |
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| 15:11.34 | fsmithred | jimjamjim, don't you want systemd installed? |
| 15:12.17 | jimjamjim | no! |
| 15:12.27 | fsmithred | or maybe you're confused and think that devuan is calling its testing suite "stretch"? |
| 15:12.43 | fsmithred | what is it you want to do? |
| 15:13.26 | jimjamjim | I want to upgrade from debian jessie to stretch without installing systemd in the process |
| 15:13.52 | fsmithred | I don't know if that's possible. |
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| 15:14.09 | fsmithred | you're running debian jessie with sysvinit? |
| 15:14.14 | jimjamjim | yeah |
| 15:14.57 | golinux | jimjimShouldn't you be asking that on a Debian forum? |
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| 15:15.14 | fsmithred | well, I don't know if anything in stretch requires you to have systemd installed, but I'm sure that you'll need libsystemd0 and libpam-systemd |
| 15:15.19 | golinux | Oops jimjamjim |
| 15:15.44 | fsmithred | he might get banned for asking about that. |
| 15:16.16 | fsmithred | but agreed that this might not be the place to get the best answer. |
| 15:16.28 | fsmithred | pretty sure nobody here is running stretch |
| 15:16.29 | golinux | jimjamjim: Do you want to upgrade to Debian Stretch or Devuan ASCII? If the former, ask on a Debian forum. |
| 15:17.16 | fsmithred | or maybe antix or mx forum |
| 15:18.52 | jimjamjim | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/316744/systemd-apt-pinned-to-1-and-installed-in-upgrade-from-debian-8-to-debian-9 |
| 15:19.38 | jimjamjim | does devuan use libsystemd0? |
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| 15:21.32 | MinceR | afaict it does not |
| 15:21.34 | fsmithred | we have libsystemd0. If you want it removed, find some more package maintainers for us. |
| 15:21.56 | fsmithred | gvfs-daemons and a few other packages in jessie require it |
| 15:22.14 | fsmithred | xorg requires it in ascii/stretch |
| 15:23.00 | jimjamjim | what exactly does libsystemd0 do? |
| 15:23.18 | fsmithred | besides pissing off a lot of people? |
| 15:23.21 | KatolaZ | we must have a damn page with all those FAQs |
| 15:25.11 | fsmithred | I believe msi is working on such a page. |
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| 15:27.41 | MinceR | it stands ready for an "upgrade" which will then inject malicious code into all dependents |
| 15:30.40 | jimjamjim | does anyone know where devuan active repos are? |
| 15:31.03 | fsmithred | mirror list? |
| 15:31.11 | jimjamjim | source codes |
| 15:31.30 | fsmithred | should be at git.devuan.org |
| 15:32.05 | fsmithred | for things that have been re-packaged. The rest come from debian. |
| 15:32.48 | fsmithred | or 'apt-get source' |
| 15:32.55 | fsmithred | or 'apt-get source <package>' |
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| 16:37.20 | brig | Is here a volume manager for xfce panel |
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| 16:51.56 | AlexLikeRock | how long slave for my inside? :RHCP |
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| 17:34.59 | AlexLikeRock | i found http://systemd-free.org/ |
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| 18:11.35 | Latr_work | AlexLikeRock: one of the few and complete linux distribution systemd free |
| 18:11.45 | Latr_work | that supports Gnome 3 and KDE 5 that's funtoo |
| 18:11.57 | Latr_work | and you get that out of the box, no messing around involved |
| 18:11.59 | Latr_work | just saying |
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| 18:35.28 | AlexLikeRock | very cool Latr_work |
| 18:35.42 | AlexLikeRock | :) |
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| 18:36.07 | AlexLikeRock | i glade to now about more Distros WHIT OUT SYSTEM-SH*T-D |
| 18:37.21 | Latr_work | Devuan is very cool and stable, my AP runs on it |
| 18:37.45 | Latr_work | but as desktop its not gonna cut it for me as I use gnome 3 |
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| 18:38.20 | Latr_work | so funtoo was the most sane choice and I am enjoying it |
| 18:38.29 | yann-kaelig | funtoo powa |
| 18:38.35 | yann-kaelig | ^^ |
| 18:38.38 | yann-kaelig | hi |
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| 18:41.44 | Death_Syn | soon many of my servers will be running devuan |
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| 18:47.32 | yann-kaelig | Ascii and ceres are not 100% fdree of systemd ? |
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| 18:55.46 | gnarface | not yet, yann-kaelig |
| 18:58.38 | yann-kaelig | ok, thx |
| 18:58.42 | yann-kaelig | cu later |
| 18:59.06 | golinux | Latr_work: Then no need to post about funtoo here |
| 18:59.20 | Latr_work | ? |
| 18:59.55 | Latr_work | I just have a question, are you one of the developers or a moderator? |
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| 19:03.48 | golinux | both |
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| 19:06.42 | Latr_work | okay, than I just want to let you know that you are making this community hostile |
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| 19:06.54 | Latr_work | *making it look |
| 19:07.07 | Latr_work | that being said, if this is the situation, I might as well just leave |
| 19:07.33 | *** part/#devuan Latr_work (~Latrwork@207.218.29.129) |
| 19:08.19 | gnarface | i can't particularly disagree. there was a better way to handle pointing him int he direction of #debianfork than that. |
| 19:08.27 | gnarface | *in the |
| 19:09.00 | golinux | Bye. |
| 19:10.17 | golinux | (Latr_work did not seem to understand that this is a Devuan channel . . .) |
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| 23:49.58 | AlexLikeRock | i cant install mate-sysadmin-monitor |
| 23:50.01 | AlexLikeRock | <PROTECTED> |
