| 00:11.08 | *** join/#devuan Achylles (~Achylles@2804:431:d724:3728:784b:e069:9f5b:639f) |
| 00:11.44 | Achylles | Now that devuan is stable which are the risks to install testing? |
| 00:12.04 | Achylles | I mean to upgrade to testing... |
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| 00:20.24 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:20.59 | fsmithred | don't upgrade a system you count on for doing anything important |
| 00:21.13 | Xenguy | hugs stable... |
| 00:21.23 | fsmithred | me too |
| 00:21.52 | fsmithred | started using ascii on the laptop, but I have at least half a dozen other installations on it |
| 00:21.53 | Xenguy | I messed with sid in the distant past, but gave it up after I became more lazy :-) |
| 00:22.24 | Xenguy | Just amazing fsmithred |
| 00:23.15 | fsmithred | no, not amazing. I maintain a live installer. I have to do a lot of installations. |
| 00:23.30 | Xenguy | Part of it all I'm sure |
| 00:24.10 | fsmithred | in the past I've usually switched over to testing when it went into freeze |
| 00:24.25 | Xenguy | That was a favorite trick as I recall |
| 00:24.27 | fsmithred | not much trouble with it at that point |
| 00:25.16 | fsmithred | and since stretch is well past freeze and about to go stable, it's just a matter of cleaning up some of the packages |
| 00:25.22 | Xenguy | I find that stable is easiest for me, as I don't have any real requirements for cutting edge software |
| 00:25.50 | Xenguy | What is stretch again? |
| 00:25.52 | fsmithred | yeah, old software is good. |
| 00:25.59 | fsmithred | debian testing |
| 00:26.27 | Xenguy | OK, I mistakenly stated that it was ascii, but I suppose now that ascii is like sid |
| 00:26.28 | fsmithred | supposed to go stable this week or next. |
| 00:26.40 | fsmithred | ascii is devuan testing |
| 00:26.48 | Xenguy | Exactly |
| 00:26.57 | fsmithred | ascii and stretch have same versions of software |
| 00:27.01 | Xenguy | oh wait |
| 00:27.17 | fsmithred | yeah, the names look almost the same |
| 00:27.35 | Xenguy | OK I get it |
| 00:27.39 | Xenguy | now |
| 00:27.40 | fsmithred | ceres is sid |
| 00:28.00 | fsmithred | and will always be ceres |
| 00:28.02 | Xenguy | So much info floating around, tx |
| 00:28.32 | Xenguy | As sid was/is always sid |
| 00:29.38 | Xenguy | .oO( I love my job; if only certain people didn't work there ... ) |
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| 00:49.38 | Achylles | The thing is that I want a live devuan cd with a newer kernel. Devuan stable does not recognise my wireless intel card, because the kernel is too old... |
| 00:50.10 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:50.18 | Achylles | I mean devuan stable live cd... |
| 00:51.07 | fsmithred | http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/experimental/ |
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| 00:51.53 | fsmithred | yes, this is the devuan-live that I installed to hard drive, upgraded to 4.9 backports kernel, and then made a new live iso with refractasnapshot |
| 00:52.52 | fsmithred | and it's the second one, because on the first one, I forgot to upgrade the wireless firmware to backports versions |
| 00:56.55 | psychi[m] | ^_^ |
| 00:58.22 | psychi[m] | This is also what I usually do for myself |
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| 01:48.43 | zyliwax | thanks for forking debian guys :) |
| 01:50.13 | golinux | :D |
| 01:50.54 | Xenguy | Too bad it needed to happen, and kudos to those who made it so |
| 01:51.21 | zyliwax | i have devuan jessie on my system now, considering going to ascii but only if it doesn't drag in systemd stuff |
| 01:54.11 | zyliwax | could i safely preview the updates if i bump my sources.list to ascii and run something like "apt dist-upgrade --dont-install-anything-unless-i-say-yes" |
| 01:54.14 | zyliwax | ? |
| 01:56.08 | fsmithred | zyliwax, you can enable other repos and pin them so they don't install by mistake |
| 01:56.23 | fsmithred | and then you can check versions |
| 01:56.31 | fsmithred | but you can't actually try the software |
| 01:56.38 | fsmithred | unless you upgrade to ascii |
| 01:57.18 | zyliwax | fsmithred: yeah i really just want to see what the dependency resolver has to say |
| 01:57.59 | zyliwax | even on jessie i've had one of my usual packages (mpd) attempt to drag in libsystemd0 and libpulse :( , so i am treading carefully into the future |
| 01:58.33 | zyliwax | i remember dev1fanboy's guide has some info about pinning in relation to ceres, but i'm not trying to be that radical |
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| 02:06.06 | fsmithred | if you plan to use X, you'll need to allow libsystemd0 |
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| 02:08.27 | zyliwax | i imagine you mean on ascii? my dev1 jessie doesn't have it, thank goodness :) eh i should just stay on jessie and consider myself lucky... |
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| 02:19.08 | Achylles | fsmithred, So which one has the new kernel with a new wireless firmware? |
| 02:19.21 | Achylles | I'd like to test it... |
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| 02:27.39 | fsmithred | Achylles, did you get the link I posted? |
| 02:28.14 | Achylles | yes. I am reading the Readme files... :) |
| 02:29.18 | Achylles | I do not understand why the official live devuan does not come with a newer kernel... |
| 02:29.32 | Achylles | :( |
| 02:30.08 | fsmithred | because it's based on debian jessie |
| 02:30.12 | fsmithred | so it has the same kernel |
| 02:30.45 | Achylles | But, they can backport to a newer kernel... |
| 02:31.48 | zyliwax | i'm using a 4.9 linux-libre kernel on my devuan jessie from a custom repo, so if you don't have any special hardware requirement or want FLOSS only there's that option |
| 02:31.59 | fsmithred | the backport kernel comes from debian |
| 02:32.09 | fsmithred | the extra iso with the backport kernel comes from me |
| 02:32.36 | fsmithred | it's not a planned or official release, but it was made by me, and I happen to be the same guy who made the official desktop-live isos |
| 02:32.58 | fsmithred | so it's signed with the same key as the desktop-live |
| 02:33.10 | Achylles | I mean, I think that there are lots of people trying to have a go on Devuan with newer hardware like me, but the live cd does not support, for example, their wireless cards... |
| 02:33.31 | Achylles | So it is really a barrier to them... |
| 02:35.56 | Achylles | Great, them you should place this version on the official devuan website, so that people get to know this option for newer hardware. Or at least to put a link there... |
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| 02:58.45 | fsmithred | maybe a link. I'm already taking up too much space on the server. |
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| 03:09.30 | Achylles | :) |
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| 03:10.51 | xikuukawaii | HEYYYY! |
| 03:11.03 | xikuukawaii | I LOVE YOU GUYS, THANK YOU FOR NOT USING SYSTEMD TRASH! |
| 03:14.33 | golinux | xikuukawaii: :D |
| 03:15.07 | xikuukawaii | golinux: should I move this conversation to #debianfork ? |
| 03:17.30 | golinux | Probably unless you have a devuan support question |
| 03:24.03 | zyliwax | anyone have any luck with getting a penabled serial wacom tablet to work on dev1 jessie? |
| 03:25.42 | zyliwax | versions of xorg >= 1.8 appear to activate them via udev but jessie has xorg 1:7.7+7 |
| 03:28.08 | zyliwax | oh hey it just started working after i ran "/etc/init.d/udev start" |
| 03:28.36 | zyliwax | lol now to find out how to enable services on boot... |
| 03:30.51 | fsmithred | start? |
| 03:31.03 | fsmithred | if udev doesn't start at boot, you don't get there. |
| 03:31.22 | fsmithred | your /dev would be sparse or empty |
| 03:31.34 | fsmithred | so... |
| 03:31.45 | fsmithred | is it running twice now? |
| 03:32.00 | fsmithred | zyliwax, sysv-rc-conf |
| 03:32.04 | zyliwax | ps aux | grep udev # yes it is... |
| 03:32.08 | zyliwax | ;/ |
| 03:32.20 | fsmithred | maybe try restart instead |
| 03:32.30 | zyliwax | i forgot to mention i ran udevadm trigger afterwards too |
| 03:32.46 | zyliwax | but that hadn't worked until i started udev the second time |
| 03:32.48 | fsmithred | well, now you lost me (again) |
| 03:33.42 | zyliwax | gotta install sysv-rc-conf |
| 03:33.49 | zyliwax | thank you for your patient help :) |
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| 05:21.38 | xikuukawaii | hey guys is there a way for me to install network manager from a usb or something? |
| 05:25.12 | zyliwax | xikuukawaii: this is an untested guess but should work in theory: download the dpkg to usb and use "dpkg --install that.dpkg" on the no-network machine |
| 05:26.04 | gnarface | i thought we had some recommended alternative for it though, didn't we? |
| 05:26.15 | xikuukawaii | thanks, where can I download the dpkg? |
| 05:26.18 | gnarface | i thought that aitor guy was working on a replacement |
| 05:27.37 | gnarface | xikuukawaii: just fyi, mixing packages from different distros or even different major versions of the same distro is heavily discouraged, due to the types of intractable complications that can arise |
| 05:27.45 | zyliwax | i have netbase, net-tools, ifupdown installed and an entry in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 05:29.08 | zyliwax | unless you're absolutely sure you do not have any networking tools on your device, i'd encourage reading some man pages and setting up your /etc/network/interfaces file |
| 05:29.14 | xikuukawaii | oh, so the way to go is config through there? |
| 05:29.29 | zyliwax | e.g. try running "ip" command to see if your system presents you any network interfaces |
| 05:30.05 | xikuukawaii | I have 3 |
| 05:30.24 | zyliwax | xikuukawaii: and they're not all loopback interfaces i hope :) |
| 05:31.43 | zyliwax | xikuukawaii: you should have at least one interface whose name do not look like "lo" |
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| 05:39.47 | golinux | xikuukawaii: A decontaminated network-manager is in the jessie-proposed repo |
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| 05:46.52 | xikuukawaii | oh |
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| 05:52.35 | xikuukawaii | Hey, weird deal. I got my internet to work but I couldn't let wpa_supplicant run in daemon mode. |
| 05:55.33 | golinux | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan jessie-proposed main |
| 05:56.00 | xikuukawaii | golinux: I had network-manager already in my repo fyi |
| 05:56.09 | golinux | You should find it there unless it's already been moved to the jessie repo. |
| 05:56.39 | golinux | You need the devuan version without the systemd stuff |
| 05:56.53 | golinux | or you may get some unwanted surprise. . . |
| 05:56.54 | xikuukawaii | golinux: there are two versions? |
| 05:58.11 | golinux | It looks like it's in the main repo 0.9.10.0-7+devuan1 |
| 05:58.46 | golinux | It replaced the one directly from Devian |
| 05:59.42 | xikuukawaii | golinux: Oh I thought I had some nasty systemd installed or something |
| 05:59.42 | golinux | If you have that one you should be good. If you got it from the Debian repos . . . that's another story . . . |
| 06:00.11 | golinux | ? |
| 06:00.20 | xikuukawaii | golinux: Nope, I got it from the Devuan repos |
| 06:00.22 | xikuukawaii | ^_^ |
| 06:00.41 | golinux | You're good. See you around. |
| 06:00.48 | zyliwax | is devuan interested in removing deps on libpulse? i want to install gimp but it's listed as a req for it :/ |
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| 06:01.25 | xikuukawaii | golinux: See you around ^_^ |
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| 06:28.04 | gnarface | zyliwax: passed over as a priority (assumed vestigial) |
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| 06:29.28 | gnarface | zyliwax: oh, sorry i read libsystemd there, sorry. not sure about pulseaudio |
| 06:30.02 | gnarface | zyliwax: it *should* be basically the same story though; harmless without pulseaudio itself running |
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| 07:07.06 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: i don't have the habit. it's anti-privacy and somewhat useless |
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| 10:14.32 | gnarface | i thought the intel drivers could do hardware h264 decoding now |
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| 10:14.47 | gnarface | is that not true, or is the kernel in jessie just too old? |
| 10:15.33 | gnarface | (as it is, it's sad how much faster this thing can do it in sofware than nouveau on ostensibly faster hardware...) |
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| 10:59.45 | ThomasKeller | hello, is there any estimate when stable Devuan Ascii will be released ? |
| 11:01.53 | gnarface | probably not |
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| 11:12.37 | fsmithred | ThomasKeller, alpha should be released soon |
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| 11:34.51 | djph | fsmithred: didn't jessie just go 1.0 stable? is ascii really that close on its heels? |
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| 11:47.11 | ThomasKeller | how long is it usually from alpha to stable ? |
| 11:47.28 | ThomasKeller | weeks, months, or years ? |
| 11:49.06 | Humpelst1lzchen | Debian took 4 years for wheezy.. |
| 11:49.38 | gnarface | i think it's important to disambiguate the term "stable" here |
| 11:50.10 | gnarface | ThomasKeller: even when ascii is finished, it still won't be "stable" in the debian sense |
| 11:51.33 | djph | gnarface: that's (sort of) the end goal, though isn't it? |
| 11:52.14 | gnarface | djph: yes, but when is stretch projected to go stable? i'm not sure whether ascii will be finished before or after that |
| 11:54.04 | djph | gnarface: no idea -- I was more questioning the "how's it supposed to work" aspect of things. TBH, I'm dead new to "debian's way of thinking" ... previous to devuan (because systemd taking over), stuck more to Ubuntu |
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| 11:56.25 | gnarface | djph: ah, well the idea is they have stable, testing, and unstable. every few years they replace stable with testing, when testing seems ready. unstable is always unstable. |
| 11:57.00 | gnarface | i wouldn't expect finishing ascii to be a year or two out, regardless of the timeline for release |
| 11:57.10 | gnarface | *wouldn't expect it to be sooner than a year or two out |
| 11:57.17 | gnarface | regardless of debian's timeline |
| 11:57.39 | gnarface | i don't really know how much work there is, i just heard it'll probably be more work than jessie was |
| 11:57.44 | djph | yeah, I got that far along -- though what names mean what version are still fuzzy (and, well, not wholly paying attention, because their names don't match with devuan's, so ) |
| 11:58.24 | djph | can imagine it's only going to get harder to review and rip out the systemd trouble |
| 12:00.08 | KatolaZ | gnarface: ? |
| 12:00.14 | KatolaZ | ascii taking 2 years? |
| 12:00.28 | gnarface | you don't think so, KatolaZ? |
| 12:00.35 | KatolaZ | no, I don't |
| 12:01.03 | gnarface | what do you predict then? |
| 12:01.23 | KatolaZ | no, it's not a matter of what I predict |
| 12:01.25 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:01.38 | KatolaZ | it'a a matter of what users and developers will do to make it happen |
| 12:02.03 | KatolaZ | jessie required a lot of time because Devuan had to put in place a whole infrastructure |
| 12:05.45 | KatolaZ | in a short time it should be possible for users to switch to ascii more easily |
| 12:06.02 | KatolaZ | this means discovering problems more quickly |
| 12:07.05 | djph | hopefully "resolving" them too :) |
| 12:07.50 | KatolaZ | sure djph |
| 12:08.08 | KatolaZ | but if you don't know that there is a problem you can't solve it :) |
| 12:24.39 | djph | oh, indeed :). But some problems are just nasty to solve. "a simple matter of programming" rarely is |
| 12:25.09 | djph | but then, maybe I'm just particularly bad at programming |
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| 12:52.22 | KatolaZ | djph: there are no problems caused by humans which cannot be solved by humans |
| 12:52.37 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 12:53.09 | djph | indeed there isnt' |
| 12:53.24 | MinceR | only if they act early enough |
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| 12:56.00 | djph | hope then that devuan was 'early enough' with systemd |
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| 13:17.54 | fsmithred | how do I download a package for i386 when I'm running amd64 (with aptitude or apt-get)? |
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| 13:18.43 | KatolaZ | apt-get install PACKAGE:i386 |
| 13:18.47 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: ^^^ |
| 13:18.52 | KatolaZ | if you have multiarch enabled |
| 13:19.22 | gnu_srs | apt-get download <package>:i386 |
| 13:19.41 | fsmithred | I don't want to install it |
| 13:19.44 | fsmithred | I want the package |
| 13:20.22 | Humpelst1lzchen | apt-get install -d <package> as usual |
| 13:20.48 | fsmithred | that won't install it? |
| 13:21.06 | Humpelst1lzchen | that will download to /var/cache/apt/archives without installation |
| 13:21.20 | fsmithred | ah, ok thanks. |
| 13:21.34 | fsmithred | turns out I don't need it, because there's no b43-fwcutter for ascii. |
| 13:22.46 | Humpelst1lzchen | oh nice apt-get also has an --print-uris option |
| 13:23.16 | fsmithred | yeah, there is one for ascii, but packages.debian.org doesn't show one for stretch |
| 13:23.51 | fsmithred | yes there is. I don't know how to operate a web browser. |
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| 13:27.33 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, here's another wireless firmware package: broadcom-sta-* |
| 13:28.02 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: I have a bad sicilian joke about a name like "broadcome-sta-*" |
| 13:28.24 | fsmithred | would the humor be lost in the translation? |
| 13:29.09 | KatolaZ | definitely :D |
| 13:30.02 | davidl | Is there a way to install linux-image-grsec-amd64 from backports without upgrading to testing? |
| 13:30.56 | KatolaZ | davidl: install it from backports |
| 13:31.18 | KatolaZ | just enable backports, apt-get update, and then install the package you like |
| 13:31.39 | davidl | KatolaZ I tried that but got errors. It says Depends: linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 but it is not going to be installed |
| 13:31.49 | davidl | says that is an unmet dependency |
| 13:31.59 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 13:32.08 | KatolaZ | apt-cache policy linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 |
| 13:32.44 | davidl | unable to locate apt-cache and policy packages. |
| 13:32.44 | fsmithred | linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 : Breaks: xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse |
| 13:32.55 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 13:33.03 | fsmithred | you have a command before your command |
| 13:33.06 | fsmithred | try it again |
| 13:33.07 | KatolaZ | I mean type "apt-cache policy linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64" |
| 13:33.16 | davidl | that's what I did. |
| 13:33.28 | davidl | wait, I gotta fix the internet connection here. |
| 13:33.34 | KatolaZ | davidl: where did you type it? |
| 13:33.36 | davidl | I had the same message yesterday though. |
| 13:33.41 | davidl | On the laptop I wanted to install on., |
| 13:34.26 | KatolaZ | man the davidl that's impossible |
| 13:34.37 | KatolaZ | because that package is in jessie-backports |
| 13:34.50 | KatolaZ | what does apt-cache policy say? |
| 13:34.57 | KatolaZ | I mean type "apt-cache policy linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64" on a terminal |
| 13:35.02 | davidl | it says that the package isn't installed. |
| 13:35.11 | KatolaZ | -_- |
| 13:35.22 | KatolaZ | it should give you more information than just that... |
| 13:35.24 | davidl | oh |
| 13:35.28 | davidl | now it worked |
| 13:35.35 | davidl | must have been a typo os somehting |
| 13:35.52 | davidl | so I got some info from that |
| 13:35.54 | fsmithred | high probablility |
| 13:36.18 | fsmithred | shows which repos have which version |
| 13:37.03 | davidl | I have it in backports but it didn't want to be installed with apt-get install linux-image-grsec-amd64 |
| 13:37.12 | davidl | shows up in apt search grsec also. |
| 13:38.46 | fsmithred | what error do you get? |
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| 13:39.56 | davidl | Have unmet dependencies: linux-image-grsec-amd64 : Depends: linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 but it is not going to be installed. |
| 13:40.14 | davidl | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
| 13:41.03 | fsmithred | install linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 |
| 13:41.34 | fsmithred | apt-get -t jessie-backports install linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 |
| 13:41.46 | KatolaZ | davidl: apt-get install linux-image-4.9.0-2-grsec-amd64 |
| 13:41.53 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 13:42.03 | fsmithred | type faster! |
| 13:42.08 | davidl | ok Ill try that in a sec |
| 13:42.22 | davidl | gotta fix internet on it first. |
| 13:42.44 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: no, I will just wait for you to type and avoid to type myself :P |
| 13:42.52 | fsmithred | lol |
| 13:51.23 | davidl | how can I make the wireless interface show up without using rfkill? |
| 13:51.28 | davidl | I installed the drivers. |
| 13:54.28 | davidl | rfkill doesn't see my wifi card |
| 13:56.32 | KatolaZ | davidl: ? |
| 13:56.36 | KatolaZ | what does iwconfig say? |
| 13:57.48 | davidl | now it's there! |
| 13:57.53 | davidl | I had to reboot after installing the drivers |
| 13:58.32 | davidl | oh. I used ifconfig instead of iwconfig out of habit. |
| 13:59.48 | fsmithred | unload and reload the module to avoid reboot |
| 14:00.16 | fsmithred | bbiab |
| 14:00.29 | davidl | ok |
| 14:03.46 | KatolaZ | .... |
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| 14:09.51 | davidl | so I need linux base >=4.3 but only have 3.5 available (have backports enabled in sources.list). |
| 14:10.35 | KatolaZ | davidl: apt-cache policy linux-base |
| 14:12.22 | davidl | ah, now I see. So it says 4.3 exist in backports there. |
| 14:12.37 | davidl | I guess I can install using that textstring as argument to apt-get install. |
| 14:14.07 | davidl | apt-get -t jessie-backports install linux-base works |
| 14:14.16 | davidl | now I have 4.3 there and get how it works. |
| 14:14.21 | davidl | thanks! |
| 14:14.52 | KatolaZ | np |
| 14:19.37 | davidl | I had to install the the 4.9 version of grsec explicitly though, wheras I would have liked to just give it linux-image-grsec-amd64. |
| 14:19.56 | davidl | I got it installed at least. |
| 14:22.48 | KatolaZ | davidl: if you use |
| 14:23.01 | KatolaZ | apt-get install -t jessie-backports PACKAGE |
| 14:23.07 | KatolaZ | it also solves the dependencies |
| 14:23.20 | KatolaZ | the package you wanted to install is a virtual one |
| 14:27.15 | davidl | I actually tried exactly that before giving it linux-image-4.9.0-.. |
| 14:27.45 | davidl | and it stated that it depended on the explicit version of itself. |
| 14:32.15 | davidl | proof that I had to give it explicit version: http://sprunge.us/YbEb |
| 14:33.30 | davidl | the point of the virtual one is that it is linked to a version right? |
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| 15:07.09 | tomk_ | hello, is it possible to announce new mirror here? have not found any better info ob web. |
| 15:21.48 | KatolaZ | tomk_: https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt |
| 15:21.59 | KatolaZ | "Once your mirror is running, let us know with a message at freenode.net on the |
| 15:21.59 | KatolaZ | #devuan-dev channel. |
| 15:22.00 | KatolaZ | " |
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| 18:00.00 | testtt | x |
| 18:00.14 | davidl | I installed the grsec kernel recently but now after reboot I can't start my window manager because I get: "/home/user/.xmonad/xmonad-x86_64-linux: execute file: permission denied" even though it is owned by my user. |
| 18:00.42 | davidl | Im starting with startx .xinitrc (which only has the line exec xmonad in it) |
| 18:01.11 | davidl | do I need to install extra grsec related files to make it behave "normally". |
| 18:01.59 | parazyd | dmesg will tell you why it's denied |
| 18:04.39 | davidl | that denied use of ioperm() by /usr/bin/Xorg[.... |
| 18:05.15 | davidl | parazyd: does that mean I need to do some grsec-configuration? |
| 18:05.37 | davidl | I am using it on Parabola GNU/Linux and it didn't require any setup at all. |
| 18:05.53 | parazyd | probably because they manage PaX flags properly |
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| 18:06.24 | parazyd | or have less protection options enabled... |
| 18:06.25 | davidl | mhm. I have no idea what that means though XD |
| 18:07.04 | davidl | I made my install via debootstrap and not the regular installer and then installed grsec from jessie-backports - maybe that has something to with it? |
| 18:07.15 | parazyd | nope |
| 18:07.20 | davidl | ok |
| 18:07.30 | parazyd | it's memory protection |
| 18:08.04 | parazyd | so since you don't compile your own binaries, you're on a loss and you have to disable memory protection for applications that get blocked by grsec |
| 18:08.15 | parazyd | if you want to continue using them, that is |
| 18:09.01 | davidl | if I run dmesg | grep denied it outputs denied use of grep... |
| 18:09.19 | parazyd | ? |
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| 18:09.51 | davidl | Im root user in a terminal and I typed: "dmesg | grep denied" which returned grsec: exec of /bin/grep ... denied. |
| 18:10.48 | abcabc | allow yourself all app access? |
| 18:10.51 | parazyd | dunno, i don't use a precompiled grsec kernel |
| 18:11.03 | parazyd | i don't know what they've compiled in it |
| 18:11.23 | davidl | abcabc: ok, how do I do that and would that still leave me any useful security? |
| 18:11.35 | davidl | should I compile it myself? |
| 18:12.06 | testtt | I can connect via SSH remotely with the following iptables: https://pastebin.com/NDWReWxs , but when I try to SSH tunnel to mysql I get "reading initial communication packet', system error: 0". Any idea what I should change? I can tunnel to port 80 fine. Mysql is default port as well. |
| 18:12.21 | abcabc | dunno. i assume the perms are like sudoers. |
| 18:12.35 | parazyd | davidl: for a start, paste your dmesg somewhere |
| 18:12.44 | parazyd | i can give you some paths to follow from there, but that's it |
| 18:12.52 | davidl | ok thanks |
| 18:13.30 | KatolaZ | testtt: ??? |
| 18:13.34 | davidl | parazyd: and that isn't risky? |
| 18:13.41 | parazyd | what? |
| 18:13.47 | davidl | pasting dmesg output publicly? |
| 18:13.54 | KatolaZ | you can "tunnell" to 80 because that is the only reachable tcp port, together with 4343 |
| 18:14.10 | parazyd | davidl: dmesg | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us |
| 18:14.17 | parazyd | then send it to me in private if you don't want it here |
| 18:14.21 | abcabc | lol @paranoia |
| 18:14.24 | davidl | I write paste_sprunge /var/log/dmesg =) |
| 18:14.34 | parazyd | sure |
| 18:14.38 | davidl | http://sprunge.us/BeQU |
| 18:14.49 | testtt | katolaz those are suppose to be ports open to all |
| 18:15.04 | abcabc | that was public |
| 18:15.06 | parazyd | damn it's logging all execs |
| 18:15.20 | davidl | yeah, and sprunge cut the last of it. |
| 18:15.21 | KatolaZ | testtt: and how would you allow ssh then? |
| 18:16.11 | davidl | I could paste some grep like: dmesg | grep "word" and then paste that to sprunge. |
| 18:17.00 | parazyd | you can grep 'grsec' |
| 18:17.11 | parazyd | but that's it, anything less is useless i think |
| 18:17.35 | parazyd | btw there's a sysctl entry to toggle exec logging called 'exec_logging' |
| 18:17.35 | davidl | that's still a huge amount |
| 18:20.08 | parazyd | iirc there were a few that had a non-javascript interface so they worked in lynx |
| 18:20.31 | parazyd | could use it with curl i reckon |
| 18:20.34 | davidl | so toggling the exec with: sysctl -w kernel.grsecurity.exec_logging=0 gave me denied modification error. |
| 18:20.41 | parazyd | oh sorry, wrong buf :D |
| 18:21.50 | parazyd | yeah, blame debian... i guess the config also has sysctl locking by default :/ |
| 18:22.57 | davidl | hmm |
| 18:23.02 | parazyd | https://wiki.debian.org/grsecurity says there's a separate repo with a better configuration |
| 18:24.38 | davidl | thanks |
| 18:25.13 | davidl | maybe I should use the "linux-path-grsecurity2" package instead, but that would bring me back to a very old kernel. |
| 18:25.36 | parazyd | nah, that's old |
| 18:26.20 | parazyd | you should be able to enable sysctl changes from userspace by rebooting with an according cmdline argument |
| 18:27.20 | parazyd | it might also be a gradm thing, don't remember atm |
| 18:27.32 | davidl | ok |
| 18:27.36 | parazyd | anyway... https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Grsecurity/Appendix/Grsecurity_and_PaX_Configuration_Options |
| 18:27.43 | parazyd | this helps a lot |
| 18:28.07 | davidl | thanks, Ill have a look at that. |
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| 19:14.45 | msiism | i'm just reading the debian maintainer's guide and it says that for building packages, you might need to install autoconf, automake and autotools-dev. |
| 19:15.05 | msiism | as it seems, the last one, autotools-dev is not in devuan's repos. |
| 19:15.31 | msiism | but according to packages.debian.org, it is in debian jessie. |
| 19:15.49 | msiism | i'm on devuan jessie |
| 19:17.25 | fsmithred | autotools-dev: |
| 19:17.26 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:17.41 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.08 | fsmithred | it came in automatically with automake |
| 19:18.17 | golinux | msiism: Devuan uses the d1h to build and maintain packages. I'm pretty sure that KatolaZ will be providing documentation for that beyond what is here: . |
| 19:19.10 | golinux | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=549 |
| 19:19.21 | msiism | fsmithred: well, "dpkg -l autotools-dev" gives me: "no packages found matching autotools-dev" |
| 19:19.44 | msiism | golinux: i'm aware of that. but i thought it would be a good idea to understand debian packaging first. |
| 19:20.23 | golinux | There are also some incomplete documents over at talk.d.o. |
| 19:20.45 | moonpup | msiism: what does 'apt-cache search autotools' return for you? |
| 19:21.09 | fsmithred | that only works with installed packages |
| 19:21.28 | fsmithred | dpkg -l (lists installed) |
| 19:21.42 | golinux | IIUC we do things a little differently that Debian. those that actually package would know more about that than I |
| 19:22.43 | msiism | fsmithred: well it works with "autoconf", which isn't installed on my system. |
| 19:23.09 | msiism | moonpup: it shows the package |
| 19:23.37 | msiism | golinux: ok, i read the devuan docs after the debian stuff. |
| 19:24.01 | golinux | and? |
| 19:24.02 | fsmithred | msiism, does the output start with ii? |
| 19:24.07 | moonpup | msiism: again, dpkg works with packages already install like fsmithred stated |
| 19:24.17 | msiism | fsmithred: no, with "un" |
| 19:24.36 | moonpup | msiism: exactly... un meaning uninstalled |
| 19:24.38 | fsmithred | I forget what that means |
| 19:24.43 | fsmithred | no, I think it's something else |
| 19:24.58 | fsmithred | or am I thinking of aptitude output? |
| 19:26.01 | moonpup | msiism: have you done a 'apt install autotools-dev' yet? |
| 19:26.31 | msiism | fsmithred: should be: unknown, not installed |
| 19:26.41 | fsmithred | u=unknown (desired action) |
| 19:26.43 | msiism | fsmithred: according to man dpkg-query |
| 19:26.43 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 19:27.00 | msiism | moonpup: no. |
| 19:27.30 | moonpup | msiism: try that and see if it installs |
| 19:27.58 | msiism | so, dpkg -l [package] works for packages of any status, as it seems, while "dpkg -l" (no pkg specified) only lists installed packages. |
| 19:28.40 | msiism | golinux: i was meaning to say: i will read it... |
| 19:29.17 | fsmithred | msiism, I think dpkg -l works with packages that are or were installed |
| 19:30.15 | msiism | moonpup: it installs without problems. |
| 19:30.43 | moonpup | msiism: great, hope that clears things up |
| 19:31.09 | fsmithred | most of the debian docs will apply |
| 19:31.29 | msiism | moonpup: well, i'm still wondering, why dpkg -l autotools-dev didn't show anything. |
| 19:31.32 | fsmithred | where we do things differently is getting them into the repo |
| 19:31.44 | msiism | fsmithred: ok |
| 19:31.59 | fsmithred | it should have said dpkg-query: no packages found matching autotools-dev |
| 19:32.00 | msiism | moonpup: maybe i had autoconf installed before |
| 19:32.16 | msiism | fsmithred: right, that was the error |
| 19:32.23 | fsmithred | it was never installed |
| 19:32.38 | fsmithred | I get the same error on lxsession and on kde-plasma-desktop |
| 19:32.52 | msiism | ok, i see |
| 19:33.16 | msiism | so dpkg-query does not work like apt-chache, obviously |
| 19:33.59 | fsmithred | un gtk-redshift <none> <none> (no description available) |
| 19:34.05 | fsmithred | I removed it |
| 19:34.25 | fsmithred | purged packages give output like never installed packages |
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| 19:35.27 | fsmithred | apt-cache searches all packages and description |
| 19:35.52 | fsmithred | aptitude searches the package name only, unless you add ~d<pattern> |
| 19:36.12 | fsmithred | I don't know what apt does |
| 19:36.36 | msiism | well, i just installed and removed autotools-dev and then i installed and purged it. result of dpkg-query was the same: no packages found matching autotools-dev |
| 19:36.53 | fsmithred | damn |
| 19:37.09 | fsmithred | thought I saw some consistent behavior there for a second. |
| 19:39.00 | msiism | maybe it has something to do with how dependencies are structured |
| 19:39.17 | msiism | autotools-dev does apparently not have any dependencies |
| 19:39.43 | fsmithred | wow |
| 19:39.47 | msiism | so, there's o package you could have installed that depends on that. and that may be the reason it's not known |
| 19:41.13 | fsmithred | I'm seeing depends and rdepends for autotools-dev |
| 19:42.04 | msiism | ok, i just checked with packages.debian.org: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/autotools-dev |
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| 19:42.40 | fsmithred | apt-cache epends autotools-dev gives me output I've never seen before. "Enhances:..." |
| 19:43.01 | msiism | right, i've never heard of that before either |
| 19:43.14 | fsmithred | both those packages listed are actually rdepends |
| 19:43.22 | fsmithred | so, you're right. there aren't any depends |
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| 19:50.10 | msiism | ok, so there's nothing to worry about. |
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| 21:59.42 | msiism | as it seems, xterm supports 256 colors by default in Devuan. However, "tput colors" says, it supportst only 8. |
| 22:01.10 | msiism | this is probably due to how tput gets its info about xterm |
| 22:05.15 | msiism | while a few years back, you would have to set TERM to "xterm-256color" to switch on 256-color mode (and set up ~/.Xdefaults to make that permanent), "xterm" obviously equals "xterm-256color" nowadays. |
| 22:07.04 | msiism | xterm's man page states: "Resources past color15 are available as a compile-time option." So, the Debian version of xterm apparently uses that. |
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| 22:14.49 | msiism | i just wonder, if that is an entirely sane configuration. i mean, it does create inconsistency with "tput". |
| 22:17.11 | batmore | fsmithred: a bit back we mentioned setting up an Amazon Web Service instance for people to use. I've setup an AWS AMI (amazon machine image) based on older Debian Wheezy AMI. Upgraded to Devuan Jessie 1.0, and published the AMI as 'Public'. |
| 22:18.11 | batmore | fsmithred: it's a minimal install, without xorg or DE. Very light machine. |
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| 22:29.41 | batmore | fsmithred: if you go thru the 10 min tutorial, then when prompted for AMI to use, then search on 'Devuan Jessie' should find it. |
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| 22:39.43 | rrq | batmore: which region? |
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| 22:52.27 | batmore | rrq: us-east-1a, N. Virginia |
| 22:53.16 | batmore | rrq: make sure you're looking at 'Public' list of AMIs |
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| 23:00.57 | rrq | thanks. it's named "devuan-jessie ...." I suppose. |
| 23:02.06 | batmore | rrq: yes. I also noticed there is another, second Devaun Jessie - TLS... not mine, but good to see... |
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| 23:17.53 | golinux | batmore: You might want to check this out: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=711 |
| 23:19.04 | golinux | Does that mean we have two AMIs? |
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| 23:22.20 | Xenguy | What is an "AMI" ? |
| 23:22.52 | Xenguy | Looks like it's Amazon something |
| 23:27.35 | golinux | https://lmsptfy.com/?q=AMI%20amazon |
| 23:28.39 | batmore | golinux: lol! I didn't see that post, but when rechecking the name for rrq I did see the Devuan-1.-TLS AMI. that's great. They also published info about it. I was just late notifying all... |
| 23:29.48 | Xenguy | golinux: I sometimes feel too lazy to run a search, if I don't particularly care. There's also the thought that if we all ran searches and talked to ourselves all the time, then we might stop talking to one another altogether :) |
| 23:30.09 | golinux | Xenguy: LOL! |
| 23:30.23 | Xenguy | haha |
| 23:30.38 | batmore | xenguy: I live in a bubble enough as it is... too funny. |
| 23:31.41 | Xenguy | I like IRC conversations: you can actually trade distilled bits of knowledge with each other, which can result in unexpected gains, and interesting directions |
| 23:31.59 | unixman | https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=AMI%20amazon ;) |
| 23:32.12 | Xenguy | That was cute |
| 23:32.23 | unixman | I used to use StartPage. Now I DDG everything. :D |
| 23:32.48 | golinux | batmore: Since you seem to know about these images could you check that one out? |
| 23:33.15 | golinux | I used to use DDG and now I use StartPage! |
| 23:33.59 | golinux | In any case it's good to have these images available. |
| 23:34.20 | Xenguy | Helps with adoption for sure |
| 23:35.49 | Xenguy | DDG being in the US, that I don't like (due to Patriot Act, etc.) |
| 23:36.04 | Xenguy | StartPage, I think, is Dutch? |
| 23:36.53 | Xenguy | Not sure what DDG logs either, which can make a difference |
| 23:37.09 | batmore | golinux: I know just enough to be dangerous! Sure, I'll spin an instance up, check it out |
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| 23:53.12 | zyliwax | so i'm wondering if i am simply uniquely cursed with the following problem: with xserver-xorg and i3 packages, when my screen turns off from blanking, a simple keypress does not appear to turn the screen back on -- i have to switch VTs then switch back to VT7 for the screen to wake up, usually resulting in a flood of cached keystrokes coming into whatever program i have open |
| 23:54.27 | furrywolf | I've never heard of anything like that, ever. lol |
| 23:55.42 | Xenguy | Hardware issue? |
| 23:57.04 | Xenguy | Dunno |
| 23:57.16 | zyliwax | trial: added myself to group "input" and restarted xorg -- i should clarify this only occur when the screen blanks from timeout, not deliberately ("xset dpms force off") |
| 23:57.23 | zyliwax | so now i have to wait |
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