| 00:00.18 | gnarface | it's clearer if you do this first: alias ls='ls --color -F' |
| 00:00.30 | zono50 | ah sweet |
| 00:02.08 | zono50 | what's a good vpn for linux? |
| 00:03.15 | *** join/#devuan early (~early@68.ip-149-56-14.net) |
| 00:03.22 | nepugia | zono50: dosdevices is ment to mount stuff like extra drives and dvd's etc, mount with wine winecfg though |
| 00:03.48 | zono50 | ah ok, so if i have windows programs on a backup hardrive |
| 00:05.09 | nepugia | i warn you, wine is not ment to run programms installled on a nt system, it could run, but might break the install, install it wine if you can |
| 00:05.46 | nepugia | more like you can mount /home/cooluser/ as drice E: |
| 00:05.51 | gnarface | zono50: i like openvpn |
| 00:05.56 | nepugia | or mount a hw floppy as A: |
| 00:06.23 | nepugia | s/wine/in wine/ |
| 00:06.28 | gnarface | note that "/" is mounted as Z: by default, a configuration i'd personally not recommend |
| 00:07.09 | gnarface | and even if you don't do that, some games will still stuff save files and configs in ~/Documents/ |
| 00:07.21 | gnarface | all changeable in winecfg though |
| 00:07.56 | nepugia | seconded, though keep in mind that wine is in no way ment to provide protection :) |
| 00:08.24 | gnarface | yea but for example, games like fallout3 in the past have not been able to be trusted not to mangle save files of other games |
| 00:08.42 | nepugia | gnarface: the same stuff on each new wineprefix :(, why no sane defaults |
| 00:08.47 | gnarface | so even though it doesn't provide protection from malicious code, it can still provide protection from *mistakes* |
| 00:09.12 | gnarface | nepugia: yea i dunno. i run winecfg on every single one manually |
| 00:09.47 | gnarface | some of them i also regedit |
| 00:10.17 | zono50 | is it worth getting playonlinux or just use straight wine |
| 00:11.01 | gnarface | i thought so right up until playonlinux couldn't manage to not add their own bugs to wine versions |
| 00:11.11 | gnarface | now i just manage prefixes manually |
| 00:11.19 | nepugia | i only used playonlinux to get different wine versions, imo the software itself only gets into the way |
| 00:11.58 | nepugia | like i close a programm and get some popups that "oh noes this game crashed" |
| 00:12.56 | nepugia | also shortcuts that it created invoke pol, instead of setting the correct wine version and just launching the software |
| 00:16.15 | zono50 | tried to run a setup.exe in wine and got runtime error could not call proc |
| 00:20.25 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:20.25 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-5): Jessie 1.0.0 RC2 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:23.54 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
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| 00:31.36 | Xenguy | o/ |
| 00:32.03 | Xenguy | ^^ Considered poor form |
| 00:32.08 | Xenguy | That's right |
| 00:32.21 | Xenguy | You thought you were just being friendly |
| 00:32.48 | Xenguy | But you are really distracting countless people from their meaningless lives |
| 00:32.58 | Xenguy | Do you see how important this is? |
| 00:33.02 | Xenguy | Get Out |
| 00:33.04 | Xenguy | ! |
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| 00:37.41 | nepugia | o/ |
| 00:38.10 | Xenguy | o\ |
| 00:38.14 | Xenguy | gah |
| 00:38.23 | Xenguy | \o |
| 00:38.41 | Xenguy | (I always take the left-hand path, except this time) |
| 00:39.58 | nepugia | is the circle facing you or the screen? :) |
| 00:40.10 | Xenguy | That's a fine question |
| 00:40.37 | Xenguy | They are looking out at us |
| 00:40.52 | Xenguy | So, for example, you chose the left-hand path |
| 00:41.04 | Xenguy | A good choice, of course |
| 00:43.12 | nepugia | hmm, i usually just say hoi or hi |
| 00:45.52 | Xenguy | How unusual |
| 00:47.43 | Xenguy | But I digress |
| 00:50.37 | nepugia | could you explain the term 'digress'? |
| 00:54.39 | zono50 | Timmy! |
| 00:54.51 | gnarface | he could, but it would just be another digression |
| 00:55.40 | nepugia | well, i don't understand what you meen :/ |
| 00:56.02 | gnarface | digress == getting off topic |
| 00:56.22 | nepugia | thanks |
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| 00:59.04 | golinux | #debianfork? |
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| 01:16.39 | zono50 | i remember you used to be able to ctrl+alt+backspace for quick logout, is there another command for quick logout in devuan |
| 01:17.03 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:17.40 | fsmithred | or alt-sysrq-k |
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| 01:20.10 | *** join/#devuan zono50 (~zono50@67-197-149-18.fttp.sta.comporium.net) |
| 01:20.35 | zono50 | when i typed those nvidia commands yesterday, i never completed them, and it keeps giving me this message, but when i type Y or yes, it doesn't do anything |
| 01:20.41 | zono50 | If you plan to no longer use the NVIDIA driver, you should make sure that no X screens are configured to use the NVIDIA X driver in your X configuration |
| 01:20.41 | zono50 | file. If you used nvidia-xconfig to configure X, it may have created a backup of your original configuration. Would you like to run `nvidia-xconfig |
| 01:20.41 | zono50 | --restore-original-backup` to attempt restoration of the original X configuration file? |
| 01:21.12 | fsmithred | are you trying to uninstall nvidia? |
| 01:21.45 | zono50 | I installed straight from the website, and not from the repositories |
| 01:21.58 | zono50 | it couldn't find my 32 bit compatibility libraries |
| 01:22.00 | fsmithred | yeah, and you ran the script? |
| 01:22.04 | fsmithred | oh yeah |
| 01:23.41 | fsmithred | I'll see if I can figure out where they are |
| 01:23.52 | zono50 | i cancelled out of it, and now my dpkg is locked |
| 01:24.04 | zono50 | i want to install steam, but it keeps trying to run the nvidia cleanup script |
| 01:24.10 | fsmithred | meanwhile, you can check the help to see what the option is to tell it where to find the libs |
| 01:24.23 | fsmithred | ps ax |grep dpkg |
| 01:24.33 | fsmithred | or ps as |grep apt maybe |
| 01:24.43 | fsmithred | find the process to kill it |
| 01:24.52 | fsmithred | cat you run the nvidia script? |
| 01:25.07 | fsmithred | is that where the error message is coming from? |
| 01:25.19 | zono50 | thanks, used kill -9 |
| 01:26.21 | zono50 | i ran this string of commands yesterday. i ran this string of commands yesterday. |
| 01:26.23 | zono50 | sudo apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 |
| 01:27.25 | zono50 | but then that's when the prompt came up about having already created an xorg.conf using nvidia-settings |
| 01:29.58 | fsmithred | I thought you were using the nvidia binary |
| 01:30.18 | fsmithred | you can't use both |
| 01:30.44 | zono50 | i used the nvidia binary first, but then got the 32 bit compatibility library error message |
| 01:30.59 | zono50 | i killed the processes, and yet it's still saying resource temporarily unavailable when using apt-get |
| 01:31.09 | fsmithred | ok, so maybe you need to do what it said and uninstall it |
| 01:31.27 | fsmithred | maybe uninstall everything nvidia and then add back what you need |
| 01:32.45 | fsmithred | not something open somehwere, like synaptic or another terminal or console? |
| 01:33.49 | zono50 | there it goes, had to delete both lock files |
| 01:34.14 | fsmithred | dpkg -l |grep nvidia |
| 01:34.55 | zono50 | iF nvidia-installer-cleanup 20141201+1 amd64 cleanup after driver installation with the nvidia-installer |
| 01:35.45 | fsmithred | have you tried running the script with the uninstall option? |
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| 01:36.28 | zono50 | should i run the binary from the nvidia site or from the repos? |
| 01:36.56 | fsmithred | huh? |
| 01:37.03 | fsmithred | what binary from the repos? |
| 01:37.23 | gnarface | zono50: *always* use distro-official repo packages for nvidia proprietary drivers |
| 01:37.35 | fsmithred | if you installed with the binary from nvidia, you should uninstall with it. |
| 01:37.47 | gnarface | zono50: the shell script installer from nvidia.com is a trap (i'm sure i've mentioned that before) |
| 01:37.55 | fsmithred | trap how? |
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| 01:38.11 | fsmithred | I missed it. |
| 01:38.21 | gnarface | "haha stupid Linux Luser. we teach you for betraying Microsoft. we |
| 01:38.36 | gnarface | we'll fix your graphics. but hose your install. good luck upgrading later this year, suckers!!!" |
| 01:38.49 | fsmithred | ? |
| 01:38.49 | zono50 | lol |
| 01:38.59 | gnarface | nevermind fsmithred, it's not important |
| 01:39.05 | fsmithred | ok |
| 01:39.24 | gnarface | (unless you're using nvidia hardware) |
| 01:39.29 | fsmithred | I've used the nvidia binaries a lot in the past and haven't had serious problems |
| 01:39.48 | gnarface | their shell script mangles package dependencies and xorg configs heavily |
| 01:40.00 | fsmithred | I used them because there wasn't one in the repo for my card when I was running testing |
| 01:40.43 | fsmithred | if you mix repo and binary, it's a mess to clean up |
| 01:40.57 | gnarface | by "binary" you mean shell script i assume |
| 01:41.02 | gnarface | they're both the same binary drivers |
| 01:41.10 | gnarface | the problem is the shell script is no substitute for debian packages |
| 01:41.20 | gnarface | and it's served up with heavy contempt |
| 01:42.53 | gnarface | while it will "work" (for some values of "work") it will usually cause other problems later, just not in a very obvious fashion. it would actually be very easy to just blame it on debian maintainers and forget using a shell script that didn't come from there |
| 01:43.50 | fsmithred | well, ok, if it caused problems, I never noticed. |
| 01:44.01 | gnarface | in a situation where you're desperate to just get your game up and running on a new card, i'd say it's a suitable solution, but i would recommend taking a backup first |
| 01:44.11 | fsmithred | and that old card died, and I'm using nouveau now. |
| 01:44.22 | fsmithred | actually, now that I think of it |
| 01:44.35 | fsmithred | there was something really weird happening when I last used nvidia driver |
| 01:44.42 | fsmithred | really weird. |
| 01:44.43 | gnarface | in other situations, just using the script as a way to get newer drivers than the ones in the repo is a REALLY bad idea, because in THOSE cases usually the hold-up is some showstopping i/o lock or segfault bug |
| 01:45.30 | gnarface | more than once i've upgraded to a beta nvidia driver that fixed the one bug i was trying to fix in one game, only to find out it broke compatibility with just about every other game |
| 01:45.31 | fsmithred | I have two linux installations on this machine. I was using nvidia driver in one. |
| 01:45.36 | fsmithred | watch some video |
| 01:45.40 | fsmithred | close it |
| 01:45.45 | fsmithred | reboot into the other linux |
| 01:45.54 | fsmithred | when the login screen comes up |
| 01:46.15 | fsmithred | there's a pixellated version of the last video I was watching on the other installation |
| 01:46.17 | gnarface | still stuff from the framebuffer on the other install on the screen? |
| 01:46.18 | gnarface | yea |
| 01:46.45 | gnarface | they removed this, i think from their standard installation instructions, but one thing i always still do is a full cold power-off, when changing nvidia drivers |
| 01:47.12 | gnarface | (somehow the hardware can hold stuff internally for a couple seconds with power from capacitance) |
| 01:47.28 | gnarface | (it's apparently not smart enough to cleanly reinitialize from a warm boot) |
| 01:47.49 | fsmithred | I remember booting into windows and then into linux so that my sound card had the right settings |
| 01:47.58 | gnarface | brutal |
| 01:48.05 | gnarface | but that's just an alsa bug |
| 01:48.09 | fsmithred | yeah, that was a long time ago |
| 01:48.57 | gnarface | how important it is to cold power-off to reset nvidia hardware has varied wildly between cards for me though |
| 01:49.04 | gnarface | it's not, as a general rule, as necessary as it used to be |
| 01:49.13 | gnarface | but i still do it sortof superstitiously |
| 01:49.23 | fsmithred | I've never done it |
| 01:49.29 | fsmithred | just killed the xserver |
| 01:49.44 | gnarface | in the AGP era, it was still in their official installation instructions, that a full cold power-off was required (not just a reboot) |
| 01:50.12 | gnarface | back then, some cards wouldn't even let go of the old driver binary unless you fully powered off until the lights die |
| 01:50.38 | gnarface | you could literally upgrade the drivers on a single install, and reboot and come up still running an older version of the drivers than was on disk |
| 01:50.47 | fsmithred | yuk |
| 01:51.07 | gnarface | yea |
| 01:52.57 | gnarface | stuff's better now, but that shell script itself is still the figurative equivalent of fixing a blown fuse by cramming a penny in it |
| 01:53.50 | gnarface | i'd advise anyone who is new to linux to steer clear of it at any cost |
| 01:54.41 | gnarface | (well maybe not in the one case you cite; a case where you've got a card too new and you don't want to wait weeks to try it on some opengl - in that case i'd merely advise of the risk and recommend a backup first) |
| 01:56.17 | gnarface | the packaged nvidia drivers in ceres have been really reliable generally for me lately though, despite being a bit old |
| 01:57.34 | gnarface | the problem comes in where a lot of new users coming from Windows just reflexively go to nvidia.com directly for their drivers, not realizing that's not a generally advised or even supported approach in Linux |
| 01:58.01 | gnarface | (and naively believing that Nvidia isn't keeping score and taking it personally for every Windows defector) |
| 01:59.17 | fsmithred | :) |
| 01:59.25 | fsmithred | rack 'em up |
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| 02:00.02 | fsmithred | my problem was not new card, but was that the packages for squeeze and wheezy came late |
| 02:00.12 | fsmithred | I was running testing then |
| 02:20.24 | gnarface | yea i kept trying to go back to stable every time it'd get released |
| 02:20.56 | gnarface | then there would only be a month or two that passed at most before World of Warcraft received an update that required the latest nvidia drivers (even through wine) which in turn required the latest Xorg, which in turn, obsoleted most of the core libraries in stable |
| 02:21.26 | golinux | There is goes OT again. |
| 02:21.57 | golinux | ;) |
| 02:22.03 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:25.37 | gnarface | you're right, of course. but it is very difficult to evangelize linux and at the same time provide adequate support without including a bit of editorializing |
| 02:26.17 | gnarface | (especially when Nvidia is like a fox in the henhouse around new users) |
| 02:29.53 | gnarface | i'm using nouveau on all my older cards now |
| 02:30.10 | gnarface | it's really a much better driver if you forgive it for not having full hardware support |
| 02:30.45 | gnarface | it has something the Nvidia official drivers still don't; full Xorg support and a complete, current implementation of xrandr |
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| 02:49.52 | fsmithred | you just reminded me to run redshift |
| 02:50.29 | fsmithred | sleep soon. g'night. |
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| 03:00.41 | Digit | redshift, is that a thing to make the web non-glare? i use stylish or stylRRR, & nightman: https://notabug.org/Digit/nightman |
| 03:01.58 | Digit | (sry, i just got back into chat, missed the context. i suppose lots of things call themselves redshift. ) |
| 03:02.13 | gnarface | i wasn't sure what he meant either |
| 03:02.42 | gnarface | but i assumed maybe the one that adjusts the tint&brightness of your display to match ambient light or time of day |
| 03:03.19 | Digit | yep, that was my first thought after hitting enter. |
| 03:03.51 | gnarface | google really wants it to be some AWS thing though |
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| 03:19.06 | zono50 | i installed the nvidia driver, but when it rebooted, i only have access to one monitor, have no xorg.conf, and can't run nvidia-xconfig |
| 03:19.41 | zono50 | says command not found, and when i try to run sudo nvidia-settings, it gives me an invalid-mit-magic-cookie-1 key error |
| 03:29.51 | gnarface | doh, too slow to save zono50 |
| 03:30.15 | gnarface | if he comes back, someone tell him he's gotta wait longer for responses |
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| 03:48.29 | Digit | how to use irc should be taught in schools. |
| 03:49.21 | furrywolf | no, no it shouldn't. |
| 03:50.04 | furrywolf | that's the last thing we need... a zillion clueless 13 year olds asking a/s/l like it's aol all over again. |
| 03:50.50 | Digit | there would be lessons on that. no asl. no drive-by. no flooding. etc |
| 03:52.17 | furrywolf | no bullying, always share your toys, no smoking behind the bus shed... good luck with that. |
| 03:52.47 | gnarface | i actually am with Digit on this one, but it's off topic |
| 03:54.45 | gnarface | zono seems smart enough. he's just not aware of the popular usage paradigms of the medium |
| 03:54.58 | Digit | yep. sry. i never got that lesson. tho i should know better. |
| 03:57.24 | furrywolf | you weren't around for the first influx of utterly clueless people, were you? :) |
| 03:58.11 | Digit | if that was 1995, then i was among the clueless. |
| 03:58.41 | gnarface | yea i think i was one of them too, but i maintain that i wasn't born that way, and it's something that can be countered with sufficient training. |
| 03:58.56 | furrywolf | lol |
| 03:59.50 | Digit | and /topic is never long enough to fit all the lessons n advisories. |
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| 04:44.38 | furrywolf | bbl, wolfy bedtime |
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