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| 00:18.54 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-5): Jessie 1.0.0 RC2 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 07:28.36 | bairdynomnom | fsmithred: had success, after your help -- https://twitter.com/Chris_J_Baird/status/862932259451543553 |
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| 07:55.48 | AntoFox | o/ |
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| 08:22.33 | Centurion_Dan | \o |
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| 12:00.01 | edbarx | simple-netaid-backend (Daniel's fork), fails to connect whenever there is only one active wifi hotspot in the vicinity. |
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| 12:11.57 | DGMurdockIII | have u all seen this https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome |
| 12:12.27 | Xenguy | Is that the tiling WM ? |
| 12:12.49 | DGMurdockIII | no |
| 12:12.57 | Xenguy | k |
| 12:13.07 | DGMurdockIII | Curated list of awesome lists |
| 12:13.21 | Xenguy | Hmm, will check that out, tx |
| 12:13.42 | DGMurdockIII | its verry good |
| 12:14.22 | DGMurdockIII | Xenguy, if u want a easer way to search it here https://awesomelists.top/ |
| 12:15.28 | Xenguy | tx again DGMurdockIII |
| 12:15.44 | DGMurdockIII | no problem |
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| 12:22.51 | meowschwitz | generic meta joke |
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| 13:55.40 | AntoFox | o/ |
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| 14:49.05 | Centurion_Dan | edbarx: my fork? |
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| 14:49.20 | Centurion_Dan | you mean the package in devuan? |
| 14:49.39 | Centurion_Dan | propose a patch we can pull/merge |
| 14:49.58 | Centurion_Dan | to fix it then. |
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| 15:58.33 | goobers | cool distro |
| 15:58.38 | goobers | crappy name |
| 15:59.02 | goobers | why dont you folks fix it |
| 15:59.51 | KatolaZ | goobers: ? |
| 16:00.08 | goobers | devuan |
| 16:00.41 | goobers | who picked that name |
| 16:01.04 | zdzichu | what's wrong with it? |
| 16:02.08 | goobers | it doesnt mean anything |
| 16:02.31 | goobers | and it sounds weird |
| 16:03.14 | golinux | goobers: Yes it does mean something! 'vua' = Veteran Unix Administrators, the folks who launched the fork. |
| 16:03.15 | zdzichu | do you have a better option? |
| 16:03.30 | goobers | dev-one |
| 16:03.31 | goobers | dev1 |
| 16:03.52 | golinux | We have those aliases also |
| 16:04.12 | golinux | They all sound exactly the same. |
| 16:05.17 | goobers | uan doesnt sound like one |
| 16:05.25 | goobers | uan sounds like juan |
| 16:05.33 | goobers | dev juan |
| 16:06.03 | golinux | The message is that DeVUAn mirrors DeBIAn |
| 16:06.44 | golinux | It's quite clever actually. Maybe goobers are 'challenged'? |
| 16:08.06 | golinux | This conversation should be moved to #debianfork if you don't have questions pertaining to running Devuan. |
| 16:08.28 | goobers | well i was thinking about installing it |
| 16:08.36 | goobers | after getting burned by systemd |
| 16:08.38 | golinux | Please do! |
| 16:08.51 | golinux | You are not alone in that. |
| 16:10.06 | KatolaZ | goobers: do you choose distros looking at their name? :D |
| 16:10.29 | goobers | no |
| 16:10.40 | Lydia_K | How'd systemd burn you? |
| 16:10.47 | goobers | but i mean a good name is a good name |
| 16:10.49 | Lydia_K | I'm honestly curious to hear your experience. |
| 16:11.03 | goobers | i was at work |
| 16:11.07 | goobers | some issue came up |
| 16:11.22 | goobers | so i dug up |
| 16:11.33 | goobers | 10 minutes later i was on systemd's github page |
| 16:11.54 | goobers | lennart closed the thread, basically said fuck you not my problem |
| 16:11.57 | Lydia_K | Let me guess "Will not fix" |
| 16:12.09 | Lydia_K | Classic Lennart right there. |
| 16:12.32 | goobers | yea |
| 16:13.22 | goobers | also i have xubuntu at home, systemd boots userspace in 3 minutes |
| 16:13.39 | goobers | maybe its not systemd, but it theres a good chance it is |
| 16:14.15 | Lydia_K | Well you can rest assured that it's someone else's problem, not Lennarts, he'll sleep easy. |
| 16:15.09 | goobers | i dont like oracle, i dont like what they do. i dont like how they work. and i dont like systemd |
| 16:15.26 | Akuli | goobers, link to github issue? |
| 16:16.28 | goobers | i cant remember that was more than two weeks ago |
| 16:16.35 | Akuli | ok |
| 16:16.45 | goobers | sorry |
| 16:20.45 | Akuli | what's your github user name? goobers? |
| 16:20.55 | goobers | Akuli: i was trying to boot up linux on raspberry pi |
| 16:21.02 | goobers | Akuli: maybe |
| 16:21.06 | Akuli | ok |
| 16:21.27 | goobers | Akuli: dont look on there |
| 16:21.34 | Akuli | fine |
| 16:21.55 | goobers | this isnt me https://github.com/goober |
| 16:23.55 | debdog | just to say, goobers, you're IP is listed: http://www.abuseat.org/lookup.cgi?ip=150.129.46.189 "It shows signs of being infected with a spam sending trojan, malicious link or some other form of botnet." |
| 16:24.10 | goobers | could be |
| 16:24.17 | goobers | i'm running windows xp |
| 16:24.21 | goobers | :) |
| 16:24.24 | debdog | haha |
| 16:24.41 | Lydia_K | LOL! |
| 16:24.59 | Lydia_K | My condolences. |
| 16:25.05 | goobers | i wanted to switch but this is my dad's machine and he doesnt want to switch |
| 16:26.07 | goobers | i have linux on my other more capable machine |
| 16:26.18 | KatolaZ | sure, linux requires a more capable one :) |
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| 16:27.47 | goobers | i could install it on this but i cant be teaching my dad. and i dont even know if most distro's still support pentium |
| 16:29.03 | KatolaZ | goobers: nice nick yours, BTW |
| 16:29.39 | goobers | KatolaZ: thanks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ei89MsnCd0 |
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| 16:30.26 | debdog | linux-image-3.16.0-4-586 should work with Pentiums |
| 16:31.42 | goobers | yeah but you cant teach dad's linux |
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| 16:34.18 | debdog | keyword: dualboot |
| 16:35.14 | goobers | i did that before .he never logged into linux |
| 16:35.27 | debdog | ahh, just though for when you're using it |
| 16:35.32 | debdog | *t |
| 16:35.41 | fsmithred | just save all the icon files from windows and put them on the linux desktop. He'll never know the difference. |
| 16:35.56 | goobers | i rarely use this machine |
| 16:36.52 | unixman | fsmithred, he *will* notice if some of his software that ran on Windows no longer exists on his Linux system. Believe me, been there, done that. ;) |
| 16:37.20 | fsmithred | ok, I believe you. |
| 16:37.33 | fsmithred | so you're going to try devuan? Have you used debian in the past? |
| 16:37.41 | unixman | Windows to Linux is not always a 1 to 1 replacement. Depending on the software used. |
| 16:37.52 | goobers | ive used pretty much everything |
| 16:38.08 | fsmithred | cool. If you used debian before systemd... |
| 16:38.09 | goobers | seen them all |
| 16:38.30 | fsmithred | you'll never notice the different. :) |
| 16:38.35 | fsmithred | difference |
| 16:40.50 | goobers | okay i'll try it out |
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| 16:41.30 | fsmithred | was gonna tell him to make a live usb for when he borrows dad's machine. |
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| 16:43.40 | unixman | That would be an excellent idea actually, fsmithred. |
| 16:44.14 | fsmithred | I do that sometimes when I visit relatives. |
| 16:44.17 | unixman | always carries a coupld of live boot media with him |
| 16:44.27 | mchasard | the manjaro HD is in internal and the devuan HD is external and all is great now |
| 16:44.28 | unixman | s/coupld/couple/ |
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| 18:27.22 | unixman | Anyone running Devuan in VMware Fusion on OS X? I am about to do that with the company provided MacBook Pro I was handed last Friday. Just want to know if there are any "gotcha" problems of which I need to be aware before beginning. |
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| 19:00.45 | unixman | No one? Not even a snarky rejoinder? :P ;) |
| 19:01.05 | golinux | Maybe there are some useful hints here? https://talk.devuan.org/t/devuan-on-macbook/479 |
| 19:01.25 | golinux | is allergic to Macs |
| 19:05.01 | KatolaZ | I don't see why there should be any issue |
| 19:05.13 | KatolaZ | I have never used a mac, but man, a VM is a VM |
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| 19:06.13 | unixman | golinux, I am not an Apple fan. But the choice I was given for a "corporate owned asset" as my company portable was Dell with Microsoft or MacBook with OS X. I'm *not* going to choose Microsoft. ;) |
| 19:06.28 | golinux | Mac's are a mystery and not 'normal'. |
| 19:06.31 | unixman | golinux, thanks for the URL. |
| 19:06.48 | golinux | I know,. I'e read the back log. |
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| 19:15.20 | Sleaker | unixman: I'm on VMware 10 on Windows and it works? |
| 19:15.48 | Sleaker | I mean.. it's the same kernel as debian right? so not sure why there would be any gotchas. |
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| 19:52.07 | phylophyl | hi |
| 19:52.38 | phylophyl | once installed backports and pin prioritized 100 |
| 19:53.02 | phylophyl | what would be the correct apt command to download a specific package |
| 19:53.15 | phylophyl | is "apt-get -t devuan-backports install "package" |
| 19:53.20 | phylophyl | correct |
| 19:53.22 | phylophyl | ? |
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| 20:07.07 | phylophyl | the answer is here : https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=32 |
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| 20:12.50 | gnarface | it's jessie-backports |
| 20:13.20 | gnarface | easily inferred from upstream instructions |
| 20:15.13 | nepugia | hey, is there some way to get kde on devuan without pulseaudio? |
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| 20:24.39 | phylophyl | gnarface, thank you |
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| 20:35.30 | gnarface | nepugia: i think that's the ONLY way to get KDE on devuan, isn't it? |
| 20:35.35 | gnarface | phylophyl: no problem |
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| 20:45.14 | nepugia | gnarface: kde-runtime and phonon depend on libpulse0 |
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| 20:54.08 | nepugia | i tried blatantly ignoring those dpeendencies but then kde wont start |
| 20:54.43 | nepugia | like gets to 50% progress and crashes |
| 20:56.24 | fsmithred | 276 packages depend on libpulse0, if you exclude all the ones with pulse in the name. |
| 20:57.42 | fsmithred | it's hard to avoid it. But it's easy to avoid pulseaudio. |
| 20:58.45 | golinux | nepugia: Check out apulse. It's now working with FF and may be adaptable to other uses. |
| 20:59.11 | fsmithred | good idea |
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| 21:01.46 | golinux | There are posts on dng mail list https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/search/20380101.000000.00000000@ml:dng,apulse.en.html |
| 21:02.07 | golinux | And on FDN: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=639579#p639579 |
| 21:02.40 | golinux | Can't you just disable it and switch to alsa? |
| 21:05.34 | fsmithred | there's not anything to disable with libpulse0 and it doesn't get in the way of anything. Without pulseaudio, you just use alsa. |
| 21:09.26 | golinux | Hmm . . . I had to disable it in some apps . . . |
| 21:13.28 | nepugia | sometimes sound randomly stops after switching to another x server (other user) kinda wonder if libpulse is related, but if it wont interfere woth alsa ill keep it for the moment |
| 21:14.36 | golinux | pulseaudio is buggy |
| 21:15.19 | nepugia | kde-runtime does not seem to depend on the virtual pulseaudio package but on libpulse0 directly, so not sure if i can replase it with apulse |
| 21:21.49 | fsmithred | apulse won't replace libpulse0 |
| 21:23.19 | fsmithred | golinux, what did you disable? |
| 21:23.29 | gnarface | nepugia: regardless, libpulse0 is harmless as long as pulseaudio itself isn't running |
| 21:23.41 | gnarface | nepugia: feel free to rebuild KDE without it |
| 21:24.07 | gnarface | nepugia: it should be sufficient to just make sure pulseaudio isn't running |
| 21:24.27 | gnarface | nepugia: (it's a separate package from libpulse0 that you can just remove or block with pinning) |
| 21:24.49 | fsmithred | I find it easier to remove pulseaudio than to disable it. |
| 21:25.15 | fsmithred | can't think of anything I need that requires it (yet) |
| 21:25.26 | gnarface | just firefox and steam, so far |
| 21:25.38 | gnarface | you can avoid the dependency in both situations with some hacks though |
| 21:26.03 | fsmithred | I may eventually do that. Using firefox-esr now. |
| 21:26.08 | gnarface | me too |
| 21:26.30 | gnarface | but they're saying apulse will suit later firefox versions |
| 21:26.39 | gnarface | remembers the days of aoss for the same purpose |
| 21:27.02 | fsmithred | yeah. I might go with palemoon at that point. |
| 21:27.10 | gnarface | or, yea there's that fork |
| 21:27.34 | gnarface | with steam you can generally work around the pulseaudio requirement with snd-aloop |
| 21:29.38 | fsmithred | Here's a great review linked from the 'Hey, I don't need help!' post at d1g: http://usalug.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16501 |
| 21:34.05 | KatolaZ | FWIW, apulse is in experimental |
| 21:34.13 | KatolaZ | and works pretty OK |
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| 22:28.20 | wulllst | in ascii, will there still be a relation between devuan's and debian's repos? or will froking from debian's repos (as it is done now for most of the packages, if i'm not mistaken) be over? |
| 22:36.23 | nepugia | gnarface: did pin pulseaudio, thanks , also steam runs fine with also for me |
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| 22:49.53 | gnarface | nepugia: no problem. steam only tries to require pulseaudio for in-home streaming. some games have occasionally had bugs where there were regressions with regards to bare-alsa support where it's clear they weren't testing without pulseaudio but overall if you're not using in-home streaming you shouldn't need it |
| 22:51.18 | gnarface | wulllst: i don't now if it's decided for sure one way or another, but i've been under the impression that the plan is still to continue to draw un-changed packages directly from debian |
| 22:52.44 | gnarface | wulllst: i think it's clear to everyone though that it's technically possible for debian to start acting so shamefully as to force devuan to fork *every package* just to avoid purposeful sabotage, it's not clear that they intend to be that mean (yet) |
| 22:53.24 | wulllst | gnarface: ok, thanks. |
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| 22:56.44 | gnarface | wulllst: no problem. it's important to note though that ascii is definitely not nearly as finished with regards to the work on the packages that DO need to be changed, so you should definitely not expect that current behavior is necessarily a prediction of future behavior |
| 22:57.13 | gnarface | (compared to jessie which is nearly completely scrubbed) |
| 22:57.45 | gnarface | and i think they're accepting volunteers |
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| 23:04.12 | gnarface | i've heard a couple people say that it will take a lot more work to fix ascii than it did jessie |
| 23:05.00 | nepugia | is it based on debian's testing? |
| 23:05.09 | gnarface | yes |
| 23:06.04 | nepugia | for me it'd make more sence to make our own testing :), but oh well , might help out if this is the cource the project wants to take |
| 23:06.48 | gnarface | like i said, i don't know that the debate has been finished on what to do exactly. they agreed early on to focus efforts on jessie as the first priority |
| 23:07.29 | nepugia | do you use mailing lists for communication primarily? |
| 23:07.36 | fsmithred | debianizing (or devuanizing) 50,000 packages is probably more than the small crew can handle. |
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| 23:08.12 | gnarface | primary communication is here or through the gitlab, right fsmithred ? |
| 23:08.37 | fsmithred | here, there's a devuan-dev mailing list, |
| 23:08.44 | fsmithred | there's dng mailing list |
| 23:08.46 | gnarface | oh |
| 23:09.27 | fsmithred | depends on what you want to communicate |
| 23:09.43 | fsmithred | there's a bug reporting site |
| 23:10.01 | fsmithred | there's dev1galaxy.org forum |
| 23:10.48 | gnarface | we still don't have our own pastebin do we though? |
| 23:11.46 | Centurion_Dan | once we get our cluster up I'm sure we can add one... |
| 23:11.59 | Centurion_Dan | gnarface^^ |
| 23:12.10 | gnarface | well i still wanna contribute SOMETHING |
| 23:12.41 | fsmithred | you already are, but if you want to do more, that's great. |
| 23:12.45 | gnarface | (something other than rants) |
| 23:14.13 | nepugia | sooo is there some way to easily contribute translations? i think that'd be the next best thing for people who arent that good in programming but still want to contribute |
| 23:14.46 | wulllst | nepugia: well, first there would have to be solid docsumentation to translate, i guess. |
| 23:16.09 | gnarface | well there's very little but the official download page isn't even internationalized |
| 23:16.10 | nepugia | true, do we have something to easily make docs then? :) |
| 23:16.23 | wulllst | also, while translating the website would very much make sense, i think it needs to be organized in a more reasonable manner first. |
| 23:16.44 | unixman | Got Devuan running just fine in VMware Fusion on the MacBook. Just chose a "generic Linux with 3.x kernel" for the install. :) |
| 23:16.51 | wulllst | nepugia: well there's the devuan-doc project on git.devuan.org |
| 23:17.07 | fsmithred | the live installer could use translations |
| 23:17.14 | gnarface | nice, unixman. grats |
| 23:18.04 | nepugia | uhh gitlab :3 |
| 23:18.33 | unixman | gnarface, thanks. It is nice to have something I like to use on that thing. ;) |
| 23:18.40 | wulllst | well, if the is anything ready for translation, i could probably provide a german translation. |
| 23:19.44 | wulllst | i just got into translation software with po file recently |
| 23:19.45 | fsmithred | I'm trying to find a discussion we had about it |
| 23:21.00 | fsmithred | http://refracta.freeforums.org/refractainstaller-locale-correspondence-t677.html?sid=2ec3cb53b98639631badb58bd1f1329f |
| 23:24.13 | nepugia | as for translation.. debian had some issues where it would sort languages in the installer by the alphabet... but before translating, which seemed to put the languages (for keyboards i think) in a random order |
| 23:24.34 | nepugia | so 1:1 strings might not always be a good idea :) |
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| 23:27.24 | wulllst | fsmithred: ok, so i would have to clone the git repo of refractainstaller-bas and refractainstaller-gui, right? |
| 23:27.40 | fsmithred | I guess. |
| 23:28.03 | fsmithred | I really don't know anything about it except that I'm supposed to put dollar signs in the right places. |
| 23:29.22 | wulllst | well, i'll have to re-read the section on .pot and .po files in the gettext docs (https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/). but it should be manageblae. i recently completed the german translation openbox and that worked pretty well. |
| 23:29.38 | fsmithred | cool, thanks! |
| 23:30.07 | nepugia | i'd be happy to proofread afterwards |
| 23:30.14 | fsmithred | you can be the seed crystal. |
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| 23:31.20 | pekman | hi devuans |
| 23:31.23 | wulllst | fsmithred: i see. |
| 23:31.30 | fsmithred | hi |
| 23:31.51 | pekman | very congratulations for great work |
| 23:31.58 | nepugia | hoi! |
| 23:32.31 | fsmithred | thanks. Everyone seems to be very happy. |
| 23:33.05 | fsmithred | brb |
| 23:33.13 | wulllst | nepugia: that would be nice. (you could also check out my openbox translation, if you have time) |
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| 23:57.51 | golinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:59.36 | golinux | pekman: Nice to see you here as well as on d1g forum! |
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