| 00:01.55 | *** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
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| 00:24.50 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-5): Jessie 1.0.0 RC2 | https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:54.40 | *** join/#devuan frodo654321 (~lubuntu@79-64-184-30.host.pobb.as13285.net) |
| 00:55.03 | frodo654321 | hi there .. |
| 00:57.03 | frodo654321 | question: what does or does not work if systemd is not present. I have a very small set of apps I use on the desktop. I read somewhere Gnome and KDE breaks if systemd is not present. How did they manage to break the desktop to fix the init process .. thanking you .... |
| 00:57.39 | MinceR | trick question, they did not fix the init process |
| 00:57.43 | MinceR | they broke that too |
| 00:58.38 | gnarface | frodo654321: some stuff related to battery/temperature/hibernation stuff got rolled into systemd, then dutiful little shills at Gnome decided to re-code to require it, and the old lm-sensors developers apparently obediently also packed it in so there was no competing compatibility measures left "supported" |
| 00:58.53 | frodo654321 | I assume the DE is just another userland app that fires up, why make it dependent on a particular init process? |
| 00:58.57 | gnarface | frodo654321: also i think maybe some login daemon stuff too |
| 00:59.15 | gnarface | frodo654321: oh, there's schadenfreude going on for sure. no question about it. |
| 00:59.36 | gnarface | frodo654321: if you're looking at the whole picture and thinking "this looks fishy" yea... you're right. |
| 01:00.36 | frodo654321 | As I also read, they rolled udev into systemd, didn't work, systemd developers said not our problem, we don't know that stuff. |
| 01:00.43 | frodo654321 | What an attitude ! |
| 01:00.49 | gnarface | frodo654321: they're trying to make systemd *so much more* than just an init system. they're trying to roll the entire userland into it, basically, starting with anything normally run by root. |
| 01:01.09 | gnarface | frodo654321: yea, the udev thing is a ongoing pain in the ass, but primarily only for gamers |
| 01:01.30 | frodo654321 | OK, I'm moving to devuan (from lubuntu), what won't work? |
| 01:01.50 | gnarface | Gnome |
| 01:02.04 | gnarface | pulseaudio |
| 01:02.08 | gnarface | network-manager |
| 01:02.21 | frodo654321 | pulseaudio don't work already :) |
| 01:02.28 | gnarface | true. also there are network-manager alternatives |
| 01:02.41 | parazyd | gnarface: networkmanager works |
| 01:02.42 | frodo654321 | Cannot ever -ever - ever get it to save settings !!! |
| 01:02.51 | gnarface | parazyd: it got fixed now? |
| 01:02.59 | gnarface | isn't up-to-date on that as he wasn't using it |
| 01:03.09 | parazyd | Centurion_Dan: updated it systemd-free |
| 01:03.16 | gnarface | ah cool |
| 01:03.20 | parazyd | not sure in which repo it is though |
| 01:03.24 | frodo654321 | Also boot hangs for 30 seconds because it can't find a NIC that hasn't been initialized yet. |
| 01:03.37 | gnarface | you're having that problem too? that's weird.... |
| 01:03.48 | gnarface | wait, are you using a n900 phone? someone was having that issue on a n900 |
| 01:04.00 | parazyd | lol no, there's no lubuntu on the n900 |
| 01:04.45 | frodo654321 | Will apt-get work same as usual? |
| 01:04.54 | gnarface | yea, none of that stuff changed |
| 01:05.21 | frodo654321 | Third party apps like mpv? (pardon my ignorance) |
| 01:05.30 | gnarface | yea, all should be the same... though i think there WAS a bug in the debian debootstrap with regards to the devuan repos, i'm not sure it hasn't been fixed. |
| 01:05.57 | parazyd | frodo654321: yep, all works |
| 01:06.05 | gnarface | (the devuan debootstrap installs fine in debian though, if you need it to work) |
| 01:06.14 | frodo654321 | I thought the systemd war was over, why so many people choose to leave? |
| 01:06.22 | parazyd | the normal one also works, just drops the wrong repo when it's done |
| 01:06.37 | gnarface | oh, good to know |
| 01:06.47 | gnarface | frodo654321: who told you the war was over? sounds like propaganda to me |
| 01:06.52 | fsmithred | I just did a debootstrap install a few days ago. It worked. |
| 01:09.05 | frodo654321 | What desktop does Devian come with as default? |
| 01:09.18 | MinceR | xfce, afaik |
| 01:09.18 | fsmithred | xfce |
| 01:09.27 | fsmithred | there are live isos you could try |
| 01:10.04 | frodo654321 | So you could install LXDE or LXQT no problem, I like a small simple fast desktoop .. |
| 01:11.27 | frodo654321 | I could install the minimal-live version and then install LXDE or LXQT? |
| 01:11.40 | gnarface | sure why not? |
| 01:11.45 | gnarface | if you have enough spare ram |
| 01:12.18 | gnarface | about that 30s pause on startup.... are you booting without an initrd.img? that was the other thing about that guy who had the same issue, he wasn't using an initrd.img |
| 01:12.40 | gnarface | i don't remember hearing whether compiling the driver in statically fixed the issue or not though |
| 01:13.06 | gnarface | it's not happening to me on any of my machines here though, but i'm using stock kernels and initrd.img setups for the most part |
| 01:13.23 | gnarface | frodo654321: ^^ |
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| 01:15.25 | frodo654321 | According to the log, it was saying unknown NIC .. force detect or something. I just disabled activiting the NIC from some systemd config file. |
| 01:15.57 | gnarface | oh, so the 30s pause was happening with systemd on lubuntu for you too? |
| 01:16.03 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 01:16.04 | frodo654321 | yep .. |
| 01:16.09 | gnarface | i wonder if it's firmware related |
| 01:16.22 | gnarface | you don't know what the actual device is, do you? |
| 01:16.35 | frodo654321 | Yea, it's a generic non-standard motherboard .. |
| 01:17.15 | frodo654321 | What do I type to get the NIC device name? |
| 01:17.22 | gnarface | lspci |
| 01:17.44 | gnarface | (unless it's usb) |
| 01:18.30 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:18.37 | frodo654321 | No it's on the board .. wait ... |
| 01:19.49 | frodo654321 | lspci | grep ETHERNET .. 00:07.0 Bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 Ethernet (rev a2) |
| 01:20.27 | gnarface | most likely forcedeth |
| 01:20.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 has no ethernet BIC, unless you like to count in wl1251 WLAN |
| 01:20.41 | frodo654321 | Yea that's it .. forcedeth .. |
| 01:20.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIC even |
| 01:21.21 | gnarface | forcedeth i think does not require non-free firmware anymore. needing some module options wouldn't surprise me though |
| 01:21.49 | frodo654321 | I have noticed a lot of 'waiting on' on browsing even though I has supposidly lots of bandwidth. do you think it's to do with a vrap NIC? |
| 01:22.09 | gnarface | also complete utter failure to be reliably useful might depend on having the latest motherboard firmware (i've owned some nforce boards in my day) |
| 01:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway that 30s delay seems to be related to udev *rules* |
| 01:23.20 | frodo654321 | I hesitate to upgrade the firmware in case I brick it .. |
| 01:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess one triggers a flase positive on some other hardware and tries to load a driver that takes 30s to find out it's loaded mistakenly |
| 01:24.38 | frodo654321 | Again I am confused .. does udev handles the NIC .. does systemd handle it .. does systemd override udev .. that's what I object to systemd, it's confused :) |
| 01:25.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no systemd in devuan. udev *called* systemd-udev |
| 01:25.52 | frodo654321 | Unless it prevents me using the machine, I generally don't go and fix something. |
| 01:26.15 | frodo654321 | I see lots of msgs from dmesg .. |
| 01:26.20 | gnarface | frodo654321: udev has been rolled into systemd, but existed before it, and handles assigning names to hardware in /dev |
| 01:27.01 | gnarface | frodo654321: there are some... discrepancies in udev behavior, some of them are bugs, some of them are related to different batches of udev rules files (plain text files you can edit yourself) |
| 01:27.20 | frodo654321 | According to the lead developer he can't get it to work :) |
| 01:27.45 | frodo654321 | 'we don't know any of this low level stuff' .. or words to that effect :) |
| 01:28.24 | gnarface | well it's clearly a big mess |
| 01:28.30 | gnarface | it doesn't evidence careful qa |
| 01:28.35 | frodo654321 | If you deciden to assimilate udev then get it to owrk !!! |
| 01:28.47 | gnarface | hmmm... i wonder what happened with vdev |
| 01:29.02 | gnarface | infobot: vdev? |
| 01:29.05 | gnarface | !vdev |
| 01:29.09 | gnarface | hmm, nope |
| 01:29.22 | frodo654321 | So eventually Debian is going to be an app that runs on top of systemd :) |
| 01:30.02 | gnarface | yea, it seems like they are trying to recouple the whole stack |
| 01:30.11 | gnarface | not just debian |
| 01:30.13 | gnarface | every distro |
| 01:30.16 | gnarface | that's the plan |
| 01:30.18 | gnarface | then redhat rules the world |
| 01:30.21 | gnarface | or whatever |
| 01:30.43 | frodo654321 | What happened to do one thing and do it well/ |
| 01:31.09 | frodo654321 | And then glue them together to make a stack? |
| 01:31.21 | gnarface | it's not about enabling users |
| 01:31.39 | gnarface | it's about enabling the systemd developers themselves |
| 01:31.43 | gnarface | at the expensve of users and developers |
| 01:32.17 | gnarface | it's not about doing anything well other than stopping other people from doing what they were doing |
| 01:33.21 | gnarface | a redirection of the entire development environment to de-emphasize developer user and increase emphasis on consumer-mindedness |
| 01:33.25 | MinceR | no, debian is going to be a spin of fedora with a different logo and wallpaper |
| 01:33.38 | MinceR | just wait until the cabal "standardizes" the package manager |
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| 01:37.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't take long |
| 01:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | !systemd |
| 01:37.21 | infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd" |
| 01:38.28 | gnarface | good |
| 01:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | (30s delay) either a driver from a rule, or that particular udev actually already is systemd-infested and tries to connect to d-bus |
| 01:42.56 | frodo654321 | gnarface .. re: udev rules files. I had a problem mounting a canon canera and had to do just that, edit a udev rule file. Now with systemd, the rule is somewher else I guess. |
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| 01:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=717480 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987 |
| 01:44.05 | gnarface | frodo654321: it is my assumption that they're just updating the rules faster |
| 01:44.18 | gnarface | frodo654321: possibly through a internal mechanism that is systemd specific |
| 01:44.20 | frodo654321 | ot: When I took a look at the systemd windows type INI files, I said to myself, this doesn't look much. |
| 01:45.41 | frodo654321 | gnarface: The confusion is, and I am definitly confused, what controls the udev rules? |
| 01:46.00 | gnarface | you mean what uses them? |
| 01:46.15 | gnarface | systemd is a running daemon |
| 01:47.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc systemd-udevd has a lot of rules in /usr/*/*... now |
| 01:47.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | just like systemd-init does |
| 01:47.42 | frodo654321 | Which have a different systax that systemd INI files. The order of the lines effect the execution of the items. Except when there are a BEFORE/AFTER directive. sorry to say, it looks like a school project :) |
| 01:48.49 | frodo654321 | That's what it looked like to me .. |
| 01:50.12 | frodo654321 | Who in his right min thinks windows INI files are a good idea? Square bracket, close bracket] lines of text .. :) |
| 01:51.27 | gnarface | you know, i like xml |
| 01:51.33 | gnarface | but everyone will dogpile on that too |
| 01:51.37 | gnarface | the issue here isn't the syntax |
| 01:52.02 | gnarface | the issue is the quality control |
| 01:52.13 | gnarface | it's all just wrong |
| 01:52.32 | frodo654321 | gnarface: "systemd is a running daemon" once a boot process has done its job you shouldn't be able to change it, or allow it to change anything. What is the init process even doing running *after* the boot process is over. You see my confusion? |
| 01:52.55 | gnarface | it doesn't seem very secure to me either |
| 01:53.30 | frodo654321 | Generally, complicated leads to confusion which leads to bugs! |
| 01:53.53 | frodo654321 | Which leads to insecurity ... |
| 01:55.05 | frodo654321 | See also this: "systemd-resolved will fall back to Google public DNS (8.8.8.8, etc.) in the absence of other configured DNS servers." |
| 01:55.37 | gnarface | lol yea amateur hour shit |
| 01:55.45 | frodo654321 | So if I hack the local DNS server and set 8.8.8.8 to my box, I can take over systemd on anyone elses box ? |
| 01:56.46 | frodo654321 | Just who in his right mind hardwires an IP into a vital boot process? Presumably this isn't changable or cannot be disabled? |
| 01:58.07 | golinux | systemd discussion should rally be on #debianfork . . . |
| 01:58.14 | frodo654321 | ok .. |
| 01:58.36 | golinux | gnarface should know that. ;) |
| 01:58.42 | gnarface | sorry |
| 01:59.00 | golinux | I thought sure you'd be talked out by now! |
| 01:59.00 | frodo654321 | What's the long term support going to be like? |
| 01:59.21 | frodo654321 | On devuan |
| 01:59.22 | golinux | Like long term support |
| 01:59.51 | frodo654321 | How often will it be updated/upgraded |
| 01:59.52 | golinux | biab - dinner |
| 02:00.09 | golinux | Probably only security fixes. |
| 02:00.27 | golinux | backports may get some newer pkgs |
| 02:01.27 | frodo654321 | I only upgrade when they stop providing updates for the current version. |
| 02:02.11 | frodo654321 | What is in a distro? .. the kernel, a file system .. a desktop .. etc? |
| 02:02.26 | frodo654321 | how did you go about making devuan? |
| 02:02.55 | fsmithred | packages were recompiled without dependency on systemd |
| 02:03.04 | frodo654321 | Ah .. |
| 02:03.11 | fsmithred | that amounts to about 1% of the packages in debian repos |
| 02:03.23 | fsmithred | the rest is unchanged debian |
| 02:03.27 | frodo654321 | Which ones stopped working? |
| 02:03.39 | fsmithred | there's a list at devuan.org |
| 02:03.49 | frodo654321 | I'll go and see .. |
| 02:03.55 | fsmithred | the list for ascii will be longer |
| 02:04.00 | frodo654321 | bye .. thanks for the info .. |
| 02:04.05 | fsmithred | yw |
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| 02:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | muses over https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987 |
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| 03:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: ^^^ ? |
| 03:04.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987#89 |
| 03:05.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> 2. Replacing #!/bin/sh with #!/bin/bash magically makes the problem go away in my VM.<< LOL |
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| 03:12.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987#119 |
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| 04:35.13 | gmcastil | i'm noticing a lot of packages that are not able to be authenticated - is this something that should be looked into? |
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| 04:49.27 | batmore | RC2 net install working good, no issues. os-release gives no indication of which 'version' (ie: RC flavor) is active. I was hoping to see Devuan RC2 |
| 04:51.37 | batmore | gmcastil: it's only been 45min since I did the download/install... no authentication issues |
| 04:53.54 | batmore | gmcastil: so very recent effect. |
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| 07:35.53 | aitor | moin, moin |
| 07:36.23 | aitor | time to take a coffee, i'll be back shortly |
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| 07:52.28 | mchasard | hi rc2 is out |
| 07:52.35 | mchasard | also for arm device |
| 07:53.09 | mchasard | i'm under rc1 ...should i install it or the update make already that |
| 07:56.25 | mchasard | for locales its better to install installer.iso ? |
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| 08:18.20 | Centurion_Dan | gmcastil: is this an existing install?? |
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| 08:21.45 | aitor | hi parazyd |
| 08:21.48 | aitor | https://git.gnome.org/browse/at-spi2-core |
| 08:21.59 | aitor | dbus appears in each and all the files |
| 08:30.06 | syco_ | semems to be a little problem with the graphical install mode in RC2: it fails at grub-install (ask for the debian netinstall cd,n ot devuan) |
| 08:30.15 | syco_ | works fine in text mode install |
| 08:33.17 | minnesotags | sysco_, I had the same happen with an i386 install today, but I went through the install the second time and it worked. :-/ |
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| 08:36.28 | parazyd | aitor: yes that's the thing |
| 08:37.03 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: hah, i might actually give that a shot, although i'm nearly done with packaging eudev for devuan, so i won't worry too much about it |
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| 11:40.21 | coagen | https://voat.co/v/Linux/1842482 |
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| 11:55.47 | Centurion_Dan | coagen: ah.. great.. We need to file a bug about synaptic... |
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| 12:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: a `exec >/dev/null 2>/dev/null` is a rather lightweight patch ;-) |
| 12:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | the failure mode pattern anyway is "funny" |
| 12:40.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus I learned something new about dash :-) |
| 12:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather: a subtle difference between dash and bash |
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| 12:42.15 | AntoFox | o/ |
| 12:42.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o |
| 12:42.52 | AntoFox | coming out problems with mate-1.16?? |
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| 12:43.23 | AntoFox | and with xapps from linuxmint? |
| 12:43.37 | AntoFox | hi Doc |
| 12:43.45 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: theoretically, if it works in dash it will work anywhere |
| 12:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously not |
| 12:44.06 | parazyd | how so? |
| 12:44.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | since dash saves file handles for std* to $10+ while bash closes them |
| 12:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | err &10+ |
| 12:45.38 | parazyd | what if you invoke bash as sh? |
| 12:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus a `exec >/dev/null 2>/dev/null` fixes stuff for dash, since that closes STDOUT/ERR for good |
| 12:46.00 | parazyd | nothing has to be "fixed" for dash |
| 12:46.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-05-06 Sat 05:05:41] <DocScrutinizer05> >> 2. Replacing #!/bin/sh with #!/bin/bash magically makes the problem go away in my VM.<< LOL |
| 12:46.12 | parazyd | dash is the minimum common denominator |
| 12:46.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987#89 |
| 12:46.37 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: no, i'm saying that bash behaves differently if argv0 is sh |
| 12:46.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm |
| 12:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | please note that none of the comments in this ticket been by me |
| 12:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the root cause is some logging keeps filehandle open for 30s when using dash for scripting, since dash saves file handles even when redirected. Bash doesn't |
| 12:50.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | the switch from log=ERR to log=INFO awakened the sleeping bug it seems |
| 12:52.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "fis" is to close filehandles for good, by `exec >/dev/null 2>/dev/null` |
| 12:52.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | "fix"* |
| 12:52.47 | parazyd | as said it won't matter, since eudev will be implemented instead of the old udev |
| 12:53.10 | parazyd | and gives for better (newer) hardware support |
| 12:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, as soon as devuan gets rif of udev, it won't matter anymore |
| 12:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | still it's an "interesting" bug |
| 12:53.47 | parazyd | true |
| 12:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just hope it got fixed in eudev |
| 12:54.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI it's an old sleeping bug |
| 12:55.31 | parazyd | seems not everyone is experiencing it though |
| 12:55.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it needs "log=INFO" or somesuch |
| 12:55.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | which triggered it |
| 12:56.01 | parazyd | i see |
| 12:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 12:56.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | default was "log=ERR" before 209(?) |
| 12:57.29 | parazyd | probably INFO was leftover cruft from the developers when systemd was assimilating udev |
| 12:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987#89 to bottom is a worthwhile cursory read |
| 12:57.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:59.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really only read diagonally. I might have memorized some details incorrectly. Give it a shot, it's intriguing |
| 13:00.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | an educational example how bugs sneak in |
| 13:03.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987#94 actually |
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| 13:07.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987#119 >>You're obviously correct; the extra FDs are red herrings.<< ... >> dash "backs up" any FDs it redirects, so it can restore them later on. bash just closes them outright in this situation (forked subshell + parent exits), causing udev's spawn_read to immediately, thereby marking the udev event as finished.<< |
| 13:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> Upstream commit 2004d23a0fcaa6e74631057a2ff75594a038d86e changed udev's default log level from LOG_ERR to LOG_INFO (altough all older versions always suggested that INFO was the default -- it wasn't). That commit is part of systemd v209 and newer.<< |
| 13:11.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | > +# Note that this trick does not work under dash, which "backs up" any > +# redirected FDs to FD 10 and higher. |
| 13:11.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | > do_everything > /dev/null 2> /dev/null & |
| 13:11.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | This seems to work under both bash and dash: |
| 13:11.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | exec > /dev/null 2> /dev/null |
| 13:11.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | do_everything & |
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| 14:03.24 | fsmithred | DocScrutinizer05, were you talking to someone earlier about 30-second delay at boot? If so, were they on ascii? |
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| 14:06.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | they were on ARM aka N900 and yesterday some other board aiui |
| 14:06.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea what's that images |
| 14:07.19 | fsmithred | initramfs-tools (0.129) has a warning about 30-second delay in systems that don't support hibernation |
| 14:07.30 | fsmithred | have to disable it |
| 14:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | please see last 8 lines I posted |
| 14:08.29 | fsmithred | From version 0.128, the boot code waits for a suspend/resume device |
| 14:08.29 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:08.29 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:08.29 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:08.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> * net.agent: Properly close stdout/err FDs, to avoid long hangs during udev settle. Thanks to Ben Hutchings! (Closes: #754987)<< |
| 14:09.14 | fsmithred | these are not the same problem, are they? |
| 14:09.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti reported hang in udev, exactly like described in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987#119 |
| 14:10.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yours sounds like suspend/resume |
| 14:10.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | also "boot code" which != udev aiui |
| 14:11.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | so no, not the same problem |
| 14:12.30 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 In my case the hang was due to net.agent waiting for the loopback lo device to be mounted, which did not happen due to the lack of an initrd. After 30 seconds net.agent times out and the boot goes on. |
| 14:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: which is *exactly* what https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987 is all about |
| 14:13.27 | fsmithred | what I got is from Apr 27 changelog of initramfs-tools |
| 14:13.51 | fsmithred | maybe 30-second boot delays are in fashion? |
| 14:14.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | 30s sure is fashionable |
| 14:14.33 | fsmithred | I guess that's better than five minutes |
| 14:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 14:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | like in wget ;-P |
| 14:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh wait, those are 900s aka 15min |
| 14:18.23 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 I read that bug report. It's not exactly what happened to me. In that bug, if one turns udev_log to "err" the delay vanishes. In my case, it did not. |
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| 14:23.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | in this case I'd rather blame the observation than the explanation |
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| 14:30.03 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 Sorry, I didn't understand what you mean... |
| 14:30.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind |
| 14:31.47 | Enrico_Menotti | (I'm referring to: DocScrutinizer05 in this case I'd rather blame the observation than the explanation.) |
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| 14:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare >>* net.agent: Properly close stdout/err FDs, to avoid long hangs during udev<< and >>The loopback device always reports link up through ethtool,...<< vs >>In my case the hang was due to net.agent waiting for the loopback lo device<< |
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| 14:42.32 | mchasard | wich video player do you use under raspberry pi and devuan arm ? |
| 14:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | whwere did you do "export udev_log=err"? |
| 14:42.54 | Enrico_Menotti | A minute... |
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| 14:43.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, never mind, I wouldn't consider it relevant for that bug |
| 14:43.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | for whatever reason yours differed to the reported behavior in ticket |
| 14:44.23 | fsmithred | mchasard, if you want something functional that's lightweight, mpv is good. I have no idea about what works on rpi. |
| 14:45.28 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 A few days ago I reported four ways to get a log from udev: through its config file (which right now I don't remember what exactly is), through a kernel parameter, through an environment variable, or through udevadm. |
| 14:45.38 | mchasard | for me i try to use it but its jerky |
| 14:46.09 | mchasard | may be a wap partition is requiered |
| 14:46.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: and none of them is really relevant for https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754987 |
| 14:46.58 | Enrico_Menotti | In the first case, which is the one that worked for me, I had the line udev_log="err". I tried to change it to "info" or "debug", with no result (no log and the delay was still there). |
| 14:47.05 | fsmithred | you trying to watch HD video? |
| 14:47.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel cmdline? I don't think this works OOTB |
| 14:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, this is OT here |
| 14:47.48 | Enrico_Menotti | No, config file. |
| 14:48.13 | Enrico_Menotti | In order to get a log, I had to downgrade udev to the Wheezy version. |
| 14:48.30 | mchasard | .mkv |
| 14:48.36 | Enrico_Menotti | In this way, by setting udev_log="debug", I found out the delay to be pertinent to net.agent. |
| 14:48.47 | mchasard | i tried also avi but its same |
| 14:48.53 | fsmithred | I have trouble with some .mkv files |
| 14:49.09 | Enrico_Menotti | And with a bit of googling, found out net.agent to wait for the loopback. (Checked also in the code.) |
| 14:49.12 | fsmithred | maybe google for solution. Probably others have same problem. |
| 14:49.25 | fsmithred | not necessarily devuan issue |
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| 15:09.00 | nepugia | does devuan support an efi stub inatallation? would be pretty cool to get when you choose to inatall devuan as only os on a pc |
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| 16:06.31 | bjb | Xenguy, I am going to try the upgrade-to-Devuan-from-wheezy now. I can boot from a netinstall cd now ... so can recover if things go really badly. |
| 16:07.01 | bjb | Here goes ... |
| 16:07.01 | Xenguy | Excellent bjb |
| 16:07.08 | Xenguy | Good luck! |
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| 16:25.35 | bjb | so ... I changed the apt-sources.list to have 6 sources - 3 binary and their three source package equivalents. |
| 16:25.49 | bjb | apt-get update, then apt-get install devuan-keyring. |
| 16:26.08 | bjb | then try apt-get install apt dpkg. |
| 16:26.20 | bjb | but it still says it cannot authenticate the packages it wants to install |
| 16:26.25 | bjb | Is that expected? |
| 16:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1527744 (Devuan on N900) |
| 16:27.34 | Xenguy | Hrm, not sure about that bjb , hopefully someone here is familiar with devuan-keyring issues |
| 16:28.24 | Xenguy | Are you using the steps documented in that article, w/e it was? |
| 16:28.37 | bjb | Well, I guess I'm checking that now : -D |
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| 16:30.00 | bjb | Lucky me, the page is not loading |
| 16:30.18 | bjb | I think I was reading that page downstairs ... |
| 16:30.42 | bjb | Maybe I can connect to irc from downstairs |
| 16:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-04-07/?msg=83596436&page=2 ? |
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| 16:34.03 | bjb | I'm reading this page: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-to-Devuan |
| 16:34.33 | bjb | Ah, I need to do another apt-get update |
| 16:35.34 | bjb | That works better ... |
| 16:35.55 | Xenguy | Good to hear |
| 16:36.04 | bjb | The apt-get install apt dpkg step is something I find helps ... when you are upgrading, use the new apt and dpkg. |
| 16:36.20 | bjb | I will carry on with the recommendations after that |
| 16:36.43 | Xenguy | follows bjb's progress with interest... |
| 16:38.06 | bjb | It is pulling in a lot of stuff at the moment ... I'm at the 146th package, it has another 1 min 45 seconds to go |
| 16:38.19 | bjb | just with apt-get install dpkg apt |
| 16:38.29 | bjb | I think if it is getting libc6 that is normal |
| 16:39.21 | bjb | Perhaps I will unplug the network cable now ... back in a bit |
| 16:41.20 | KatolaZ | bjb: need to apt-get update after you have installed devuan-keyring |
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| 16:50.28 | KatolaZ | https://linux.slashdot.org/story/17/05/06/0457214/systemd-free-devuan-linux-announces-a-second-release-candidate |
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| 16:51.48 | Lydia_K | Oh boy oh boy! I can wait to read the comments from the systemd lovers complaining that we exist at all! |
| 16:52.06 | Xenguy | makes popcorn... |
| 16:52.50 | mwarning | it's about choice. Not picking on other people.. |
| 16:53.02 | OxFEEDBACC | do we? ;-) |
| 16:53.49 | FlibberTGibbet | i gather systemd will eventually incorporate a deuvan or bsd vm to satisfy those who don't like systemd :D |
| 16:56.31 | KatolaZ | Lydia_K: you will be surprised to find far less trolls in the comments this time |
| 16:57.04 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 16:57.52 | KatolaZ | also on Moron...ops...Phoronics several senior members have provided positive comments |
| 16:58.56 | FlibberTGibbet | KatolaZ: they have? thought those guys were firmly in the opposite camp. wow. |
| 17:00.26 | Lydia_K | Wow, so far these comments are all very positive. |
| 17:00.45 | Lydia_K | I'm honestly stunned considering all the hate that was in the slashdot comments last time there was something about us there. |
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| 17:01.11 | Xenguy | wb bjb |
| 17:01.29 | bjb | I've done the apt-get install apt dpkg ... proceeding to apt-get dist-upgrade -d (I generally like to download everything in a separate step) |
| 17:01.45 | FlibberTGibbet | maybe i'm being thoroughly subjective but systemd does seem to have more detractors as time goes by, not less. not the sign of a roaring success |
| 17:02.24 | KatolaZ | bjb: you just need to apt-get update *after* you have installed devuan-keyring to have packages verified |
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| 17:02.45 | bjb | KatolaZ, ok thanks |
| 17:02.47 | Xenguy | KatolaZ: I think that's done now |
| 17:02.59 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: well, systemd is still the system of choice in te majority of the Linux world.... |
| 17:03.25 | Xenguy | The majority will always go with the default I think |
| 17:03.25 | KatolaZ | oh sorry Xenguy, bjb |
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| 17:03.35 | bjb | systemd is not the system of choice ... it's the default. Lots of people are putting up with it because it's the default |
| 17:03.56 | FlibberTGibbet | KatolaZ: yes, for now that's certainly the case. i'm inclined to go with bjb on this one though -- given the choice... |
| 17:04.01 | bjb | KatolaZ: I appreciate the attention to my plight : -) |
| 17:04.05 | Xenguy | Indeed a couple of linux people at work were not really even aware of the systemd issue |
| 17:04.34 | bjb | At work, we don't really have a choice ... the customer is going with it so we have to know it. |
| 17:04.40 | bjb | but I will not have it at home : -) |
| 17:04.52 | bjb | If the customer wants me to know it, they can pay for it |
| 17:04.57 | Xenguy | ^5s bjb... |
| 17:06.39 | bjb | Ok, the downloading has happened ... I will disconnect from network again and do the installation. |
| 17:07.59 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: our role is just to provide choice |
| 17:08.01 | Xenguy | have fun |
| 17:08.06 | KatolaZ | then people will decide ;) |
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| 18:19.52 | bjb | Don't be alarmed |
| 18:20.22 | bjb | It went well. I noted the packages with changed config files and one was shorewall, so spent some time reading up on the implications |
| 18:20.57 | bjb | It's always hard to do that without any network though : -) |
| 18:21.11 | Xenguy | back |
| 18:22.03 | Xenguy | bjb: Interesting, I'm running shorewall on the box/gateway/router that I need to upgrade from Wheezy |
| 18:22.47 | Xenguy | In the past I've found shorewall to be demanding, when upgrades happen (e.g. config changes often need to be made) |
| 18:24.46 | bjb | I probably should have tried to note my current version before the upgrade, the proposed version after the upgrade, and done the research before the upgrade |
| 18:25.07 | bjb | I agree re shorewall upgrades, but I don't do it often so it does end up entailing changes |
| 18:25.14 | Xenguy | That's the joy of going first :-) |
| 18:25.48 | Xenguy | I'll find out what version my Wheezy box is running |
| 18:26.15 | bjb | It wasn't too bad ... I went from version 4.5.5.something to 4.6.4.something |
| 18:26.33 | Xenguy | $ shorewall version |
| 18:26.34 | Xenguy | 4.5.5.3 |
| 18:26.59 | bjb | but, there were a few things. I ended up just using the old config file. But eventually I will replace it with a "newly" generated one. I don't like staying with the old files because it makes further upgrades harder. |
| 18:27.39 | Xenguy | True, and loose ends usually come home to roost, eventually |
| 18:28.22 | Xenguy | puts the shorewall upgrade research on his to-do list... |
| 18:28.50 | bjb | So maybe your first step should be to set your shorewall config files to be your config using the 4.5.5.3 suggested base config files. |
| 18:29.01 | bjb | Then you will have minimal changes when you do your upgrade. |
| 18:29.07 | Xenguy | Or as a good friend of mine likes to say: "Completeness matters" |
| 18:30.07 | bjb | Well now to fix up the other package configs |
| 18:30.32 | bjb | I must say the debian wheezy->devuan upgrade was flawless and painless : -) very happy with that |
| 18:30.38 | Xenguy | bjb: So basically, no gotchas along the way, or is it still too early to say? |
| 18:30.50 | Xenguy | Ah, there ya go |
| 18:30.51 | bjb | This is a small system though - no desktop, server only. very few packages |
| 18:31.39 | Xenguy | How did you backup your system before the upgrade? |
| 18:32.25 | bjb | rsync the whole filesystem to another machine ... except for /proc and /sys and maybe one or two other directories. |
| 18:32.42 | bjb | There is no database or anything on here |
| 18:32.59 | bjb | And make sure there is a bootable CD handy : -) |
| 18:34.07 | Xenguy | I need to get better at creating rescue USBkeys, cos there's no CD reader on this system |
| 18:34.48 | Xenguy | So far I've used dd to create an install USBkey |
| 18:35.32 | bjb | I suppose I should learn that skill (making functioning bootable USBkeys) |
| 18:37.02 | Xenguy | Yeah, I'll need to buy a few more so I can have a rescue key at the ready |
| 18:37.05 | fsmithred | try refracta2usb - you can make multiboot usb, first partition is a real fat32, so you can use it like a regular thumb drive to transfer files, and you can have multiple persistent volumes |
| 18:37.10 | Xenguy | And a few other things |
| 18:38.08 | Xenguy | fsmithred: Sounds interesting, I have not yet delved into the refracta world |
| 18:38.35 | fsmithred | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/tools/ |
| 18:38.43 | Xenguy | tx |
| 18:39.41 | fsmithred | you may need to zero the first 2 or 4 MB of the usb stick first, if it was imaged with isohybrid |
| 18:40.30 | fsmithred | not sure why |
| 18:42.32 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-84-220-219-222.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 18:51.23 | Xenguy | heh, Bruce Perens weighed in on /. with a short comment: "I installed Devuan on a laptop and will probably expand it to my other systems over time. I installed 1.0 and the absence of NetworkManager was a problem, so it's nice to see that this new version includes it." |
| 19:02.17 | gnarface | for real? if Perens is onboard, that's validation |
| 19:02.47 | KatolaZ | gnarface: Bruce Perens wrote on DNG two weeks ago already.... |
| 19:03.00 | gnarface | i hadn't heard |
| 19:07.16 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 19:07.32 | KatolaZ | gnarface: that's because it's a mailing list, not a podcast ;P |
| 19:07.54 | gnarface | :-p |
| 19:23.30 | __stephen | Anyone know why the hdmi port wouldn't show up in xrandr but I still see things like [ 1156.629799] hdmi_state_machine_set_state_l: switching from state 7 (Recheck EDID) to state 5 (Enabled) |
| 19:23.35 | __stephen | in my dmesg out? |
| 19:30.14 | DPA | Which names are shown for the other displays? |
| 19:30.34 | __stephen | Just "default" |
| 19:30.38 | gnarface | __stephen: custom kernel? |
| 19:30.42 | __stephen | default connected 1920x1080+0+0 0mm x 0mm |
| 19:31.04 | __stephen | It's the one copied from the chromeos. |
| 19:31.12 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 19:31.25 | __stephen | It's an acer cb5-311 -- the 13 inch tegra based thing... |
| 19:31.39 | gnarface | well it's possible to compile without HDMI support, but it's probably worth noting that for nvidia hardware, the open source drivers probably can't do it |
| 19:32.07 | __stephen | The kernel supports it, it worked under both chrome and ubuntu. |
| 19:32.09 | gnarface | i can't say whether that also applies to tegra or not |
| 19:32.28 | __stephen | But now thta I've swapped ubuntu for devuan it doesn't seem to work. |
| 19:32.32 | DPA | Did you also copy the modules? |
| 19:32.36 | __stephen | Yup. |
| 19:32.43 | gnarface | initrd.img? |
| 19:32.58 | __stephen | I don't know that it uses one... |
| 19:33.10 | gnarface | how about non-free firmware? (might not have been packaged with the kernel) |
| 19:33.25 | __stephen | There's a thought, but I copied the firmware over too. |
| 19:34.19 | __stephen | Perhaps it didn't load something... but it seems like I'd have other issues, too. |
| 19:35.14 | *** join/#devuan grillonBNC (~grillon@94.177.239.76) |
| 19:35.16 | __stephen | Perhaps I should reboot into chrome, and compare the modules listed... |
| 19:35.31 | __stephen | Any way to query the kernel for loaded blobs? |
| 19:36.58 | gnarface | lsmod |
| 19:37.15 | gnarface | also probably if firmware is missing, you'll see complaints during boot output into dmesg |
| 19:37.20 | __stephen | That shows modules, but what about firmware? |
| 19:37.33 | gnarface | oh hmm. other than looking for complaints in dmesg, i'm not sure |
| 19:37.52 | gnarface | i've only ever had to expect missing firmware to be complained about visibly in there |
| 19:38.01 | __stephen | Is there a convenient package in devuan for posting to a pastebin type site? |
| 19:38.18 | gnarface | pastebinit exists |
| 19:38.38 | gnarface | i think it can be reconfigured to point to paste.debian.net |
| 19:39.01 | __stephen | Bad API request, invalid api_dev_key |
| 19:39.21 | __stephen | I suppose I need to manually select a pastebin site for it... |
| 19:40.15 | __stephen | http://paste.debian.net/931067/ |
| 19:41.13 | __stephen | I should note, I unplugged the cable just a moment before doing that. |
| 19:41.18 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 19:41.23 | gnarface | well it clearly SAYS it finds the firmware |
| 19:41.38 | gnarface | (lines 370, 371, 372) |
| 19:42.03 | *** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@45.53.139.135) |
| 19:44.52 | *** join/#devuan mwarning (~mwarning@178.63.20.183) |
| 19:45.07 | DPA | Maybe it's the xorg driver. It may pick one that just writes to the framebuffer or something like that. |
| 19:46.14 | gnarface | hmm, mabye |
| 19:46.22 | __stephen | I don't know, it somehow picked one that does accelerated 3d and dri ... |
| 19:46.33 | gnarface | __stephen: check your /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see what it says for sure? |
| 19:47.05 | __stephen | That's weird.. |
| 19:47.28 | __stephen | Looking now... |
| 19:47.36 | *** join/#devuan ipe (~ipe@85-76-0-43-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:48.08 | __stephen | http://paste.debian.net/931069/ |
| 19:48.17 | __stephen | Look at all those fbdev errors... |
| 19:48.42 | gnarface | oh yea |
| 19:48.58 | gnarface | that doesn't look right |
| 19:49.58 | gnarface | neither does this: [ 53.991] (EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory |
| 19:50.38 | __stephen | which is funny becuase: glxinfo | grep -i rend |
| 19:50.40 | __stephen | direct rendering: Yes |
| 19:50.48 | __stephen | amongst the other output. |
| 19:51.10 | gnarface | is tegra hardware supposed to be using fbdevhw drivers? |
| 19:51.16 | gnarface | seems like a mistake |
| 19:51.28 | gnarface | i don't know though |
| 19:51.50 | gnarface | maybe this is just an issue of needing a manual xorg.conf config file or snippet |
| 19:52.17 | gnarface | that's an easy thing to imagine chromeos would have been doing differently |
| 19:52.32 | gnarface | and it could explain the wrong drivers loading |
| 19:53.33 | *** join/#devuan KittenNIX (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 19:54.41 | *** join/#devuan malinas_ (~user@137.132.22.252) |
| 19:55.43 | parazyd | __stephen: perhaps these help? https://github.com/parazyd/arm-sdk/tree/next/extra/chromeacer/etc/udev/rules.d |
| 19:56.19 | gnarface | different udev rules seem to be also something that predictably gets left behind often too |
| 19:58.38 | __stephen | that 51-* looks new... |
| 19:58.54 | __stephen | 51-nvrm.rules |
| 20:01.29 | __stephen | detatching to poke some stuff, bbiab |
| 20:02.07 | greenjeans | seems like what it's trying to use is the nouveau driver, it does 3D. looks like there's support for some tegra stuff that was rolled in to the kernel in 3.14, but not necessarily for the newer tegra chips |
| 20:04.58 | gnarface | i have run into some issues with regards to steam controller support that turned out to be (still unfixed) broken behavior between different udev versions that is somehow *ironed out* by running systemd, like systemd has an internal update mechanism for some stuff. it was not udev rules alone though, it was some /dev/.udev database or something like that which got completely reformatted silently |
| 20:05.26 | gnarface | hopefully *that* isn't the issue here though |
| 20:05.42 | gnarface | because as far as i can tell, nobody at Valve *or* on the udev team is willing to admit they broke it on purpose |
| 20:06.55 | gnarface | but chances are they're doing it to kill compatibility with 3rd party distros |
| 20:07.05 | greenjeans | https://github.com/grate-driver |
| 20:18.15 | __stephen | I loved the steam controller... until they changed the firmware and it wasn't just a regular input device but needed to interact with steam to work. |
| 20:18.45 | gnarface | there exists a community driver now so you don't need steam |
| 20:18.50 | gnarface | but i agree that was annoying |
| 20:19.02 | gnarface | it seems to be all wrapped up in udev/systemd vendor lock-in |
| 20:19.20 | gnarface | and not just breaking steam controllers either - this seems to be related: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/1894 |
| 20:19.21 | __stephen | Of course, if any of the freely available input drivers would let me do chording with the ps4 buttons it would all be a non issue. |
| 20:19.55 | gnarface | yea i'm just angry that steam has better support for my decades-old nintendo wii classic controller than it does for their own hardware. |
| 20:20.21 | gnarface | i'd rate their effort level here at somewhere between pathetic and criminally negligible |
| 20:20.32 | gnarface | *criminally negligent |
| 20:20.37 | gnarface | sorry i'm off-topic again |
| 20:20.40 | gnarface | gets off the soapbox |
| 20:21.34 | __stephen | my batteries are getting low, I'm going to shut down and go look for some lunch. I have a whole bunch of avenues to pursue now for my graphics issues. |
| 20:21.59 | gnarface | good luck. let us know what you discover. |
| 20:22.06 | __stephen | I shall. |
| 20:22.09 | __stephen | thanks, all. |
| 20:22.14 | __stephen | detaches |
| 20:44.11 | greenjeans | fsmithred: figured out the shutdown issue, it was something that didn't get auto-rebuilt in var/log after all, i guess best policy is what you use in snapshot, truncating current and deleting old logs, but I do know now what all gets re-built and what needs to stay |
| 20:44.37 | greenjeans | narrowed it down to 4-5 files I should say |
| 20:45.39 | *** join/#devuan ericnoan (~en@unaffiliated/ericnoan) |
| 20:45.39 | greenjeans | 2 instances of logsave, either from gnome-pty-helper or just from rsyslog were trying to write to files that no longer existed in var/log |
| 20:46.26 | greenjeans | so it's only 2 of the 5 I didn't have in the new install |
| 20:49.13 | fsmithred | cool |
| 20:49.30 | fsmithred | there may be some old discussion about that at refracta forum |
| 20:49.48 | fsmithred | look for dzz's posts about it |
| 20:58.37 | greenjeans | Vuu-do beta finished : http://www.mrgreenjeans.net/linux/vuudo/openbox/64/ |
| 21:04.45 | greenjeans | fully un-purped |
| 21:04.55 | greenjeans | ;) |
| 21:14.01 | fsmithred | downloading now |
| 21:21.34 | fsmithred | I like the release notes |
| 21:22.10 | *** join/#devuan mwarning (~mwarning@2a01:4f8:141:4623:2e0:8fff:fe00:6ac) |
| 21:22.33 | *** join/#devuan Eadrom381|X250 (~SeanFenne@69.7.36.51) |
| 21:22.59 | fsmithred | greenjeans, fyi sudo nopasswd is enabled in live environment. It's a live-config thing. |
| 21:26.24 | greenjeans | yeah I should have mentioned that. But for looking at/editing a system file in a mounted volume while in live session you still need root password |
| 21:27.38 | fsmithred | it must have ignored the login screen - I typed 'user' and got in. |
| 21:28.55 | greenjeans | really? dangit..... |
| 21:28.58 | *** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
| 21:29.42 | greenjeans | is that due to sudo nopasswd? |
| 21:29.46 | fsmithred | only works as a password for vuudo |
| 21:29.54 | fsmithred | not if I try username user |
| 21:30.06 | fsmithred | no, it shouldn't be related to sudo |
| 21:31.22 | greenjeans | well drat, that didn't take long to find a bug, lol |
| 21:32.19 | greenjeans | brb, gotta switch to installed system and check it I guess |
| 21:32.23 | fsmithred | it shouldn't be asking for a password |
| 21:32.33 | fsmithred | or maybe I'm too fast for the 1 second timeout |
| 21:33.09 | greenjeans | lightdm shouldn't be asking you? It's not configured for autologin.... |
| 21:33.18 | fsmithred | yes it is |
| 21:33.33 | fsmithred | autologin_user=vuudo |
| 21:33.41 | fsmithred | and timeout is 1 sec |
| 21:33.50 | greenjeans | yeah but that's commented out isn't it? |
| 21:35.20 | fsmithred | nope |
| 21:35.31 | fsmithred | live-config does that |
| 21:35.50 | greenjeans | it uncommented it on the livecd? |
| 21:35.59 | fsmithred | add noautologin to boot command and remove username=devuan |
| 21:36.18 | fsmithred | yes, when the lightdm live-config script runs |
| 21:40.18 | fsmithred | ok, confirmed: remove username=devuan and add noautologin and it works the way it should |
| 21:41.48 | fsmithred | the text-mode boot entry does not work |
| 21:41.54 | fsmithred | and I know why |
| 21:42.58 | greenjeans | I removed some boot entries |
| 21:43.15 | greenjeans | where are talking about removing username=devuan? |
| 21:43.22 | fsmithred | boot entry |
| 21:43.25 | fsmithred | live.cfg |
| 21:43.43 | fsmithred | that triggers autologin |
| 21:44.37 | fsmithred | the text-mode boot entry expects that you have configured lightdm to be off in runlevel 3 |
| 21:45.39 | greenjeans | i don't see live.cfg |
| 21:45.52 | fsmithred | where are you looking? |
| 21:46.23 | greenjeans | sorry, meaning to say i don't know what folder or directory, need a pathway |
| 21:46.28 | fsmithred | do set refractasnapshot to let you edit the boot menu? |
| 21:46.41 | fsmithred | do you set... |
| 21:47.29 | fsmithred | look in /usr/lib/refractasnapshot-base/isolinux |
| 21:48.15 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-46-159.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 21:52.44 | greenjeans | I don't have a /usr/lib/refractasnapshot-base folder, just usr/lib/refractasnapshot.....ahh here we are, you have to forgive my thickheadedness right now, mind is fried from 3 days of research/reading |
| 21:54.23 | fsmithred | I know the feeling |
| 21:56.39 | greenjeans | okay, on the installed system the /usr/lib/refractasnapshot/iso/isolinux/live.cfg says nothing about username=devuan, is it adding that to livecd? and where from? |
| 21:57.25 | fsmithred | you must be adding it somewhere |
| 21:57.46 | fsmithred | oh |
| 21:58.07 | fsmithred | no, refractasnapshot detects that the name is not user (the live default) |
| 21:58.11 | fsmithred | and adds it |
| 21:58.27 | fsmithred | set edit_boot_menu to yes, so you can remove it |
| 21:58.42 | fsmithred | can't remember if there's a switch to disable that. Probably not. |
| 21:59.10 | greenjeans | wait, i think there's something about it in one of the conf files |
| 21:59.22 | fsmithred | and either remove the text-only entry or run 'update-rc.d lightdm disable 3' |
| 22:01.22 | greenjeans | snapshot.conf has a section about changing username |
| 22:01.22 | fsmithred | yeah, there is, and you don't want that. |
| 22:01.28 | greenjeans | # If the primary user's name is not "user", then live-boot needs to see |
| 22:01.28 | greenjeans | # the user's name in the boot command. In that case, the script will |
| 22:01.28 | greenjeans | # automatically add the correct option. If you set a user name here, it |
| 22:01.28 | greenjeans | # will override that process. Use this if you want to log into the live |
| 22:01.28 | greenjeans | # media as someone other than the primary user (i.e. any user whose |
| 22:01.29 | greenjeans | # uid:gid are not 1000:1000.) |
| 22:01.31 | greenjeans | # Under most circumstances, leave this blank or commented out. |
| 22:01.33 | greenjeans | #username="" |
| 22:01.40 | fsmithred | you didn't need to post that |
| 22:01.57 | greenjeans | sorry |
| 22:02.01 | fsmithred | fill that in if you want your second user to be the one logged in automatically |
| 22:02.19 | fsmithred | I don't think anyone has ever used that |
| 22:02.56 | greenjeans | i thought i had gotten rid of devuan as a username from everywhere, wonder where snapshot is finding it? |
| 22:03.20 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.12 | *** part/#devuan mwarning (~mwarning@2a01:4f8:141:4623:2e0:8fff:fe00:6ac) |
| 22:04.24 | fsmithred | remove ${username_opt} from live.cfg |
| 22:05.52 | greenjeans | nothing in etc/passwd on the installed system that refers to devuan |
| 22:06.39 | fsmithred | there's a username in the boot command |
| 22:06.58 | fsmithred | not devuan |
| 22:07.05 | fsmithred | vuudo |
| 22:07.35 | fsmithred | the one whose uid and gid are 1000 |
| 22:07.58 | fsmithred | brb |
| 22:30.54 | *** join/#devuan Eadrom381|X250 (~SeanFenne@173.234.62.155) |
| 22:33.44 | *** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@45.53.139.135) |
| 22:37.47 | greenjeans | i had thought about just making the build partition autologin anyway so it would autologin on the livecd, but if it's uncommenting those lines anyway, I don't see why it's not going directly to desktop with no further input |
| 22:38.08 | greenjeans | is that a lightdm thing? |
| 22:38.48 | greenjeans | no password needed but still need to hit enter to get in? |
| 22:39.11 | parazyd | lightdm removed autologin at some point |
| 22:39.55 | greenjeans | ahhhh, that explains that |
| 22:40.28 | greenjeans | by that you mean where it just bypasses the login screen completely? |
| 22:40.49 | greenjeans | like slim does |
| 22:40.57 | parazyd | yep |
| 22:41.12 | parazyd | the furthest you get is what you got |
| 22:41.19 | parazyd | pressing enter |
| 22:41.29 | parazyd | and that's a PAM hack |
| 22:41.41 | greenjeans | thanks parazyd, that helps |
| 22:41.45 | parazyd | sure |
| 22:42.40 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:42.50 | greenjeans | so i'm not sure now that i need to do anything about it, as some input is going to be required regardless to get past login |
| 22:43.19 | fsmithred | there are still autologin lines in the config file |
| 22:43.22 | fsmithred | and... |
| 22:43.27 | fsmithred | refracta logs in automatically |
| 22:43.39 | fsmithred | maybe because I don't change the username, but that should work |
| 22:44.25 | fsmithred | dzz and I added the 1-second timeout to fix that |
| 22:44.34 | fsmithred | maybe it needs to be 2 seconds |
| 22:44.42 | greenjeans | refracta logs in automatically for the livecd session with lightdm? |
| 22:44.47 | fsmithred | yes |
| 22:44.55 | parazyd | but that's jessie/old |
| 22:45.05 | fsmithred | oh, is this ascii? |
| 22:45.07 | parazyd | as said, lightdm removed that autologin at a later point |
| 22:46.53 | rrq | fsmithred: you've had some luck using vdev or eudev on ascii with 4.9 kernel? |
| 22:47.02 | fsmithred | yes, rrq |
| 22:47.08 | greenjeans | so current lightdm in devuan jessie repo has had the autologin removed? |
| 22:47.21 | fsmithred | no, it's in jessie |
| 22:47.32 | parazyd | i couldn't get it working in ascii |
| 22:47.32 | fsmithred | and your vuudo sure looks like jessie |
| 22:47.35 | fsmithred | 3.16 |
| 22:47.40 | greenjeans | it is |
| 22:47.48 | parazyd | fsmithred: what magic are you using? |
| 22:47.53 | fsmithred | not sure |
| 22:48.05 | greenjeans | yeah, spill it buddy |
| 22:48.30 | fsmithred | unicorn farts |
| 22:48.54 | parazyd | if the debian initramfs wasn't such a black box it would be a lot easier to track |
| 22:48.58 | fsmithred | that's why my grub boot splash works in uefi, but not in the devuan isos |
| 22:49.20 | fsmithred | glad I'm not the only one who's confused about that |
| 22:49.58 | greenjeans | okay, i'm gonna try setting it to autologin in the build partition, and then squash another run I guess.....[sigh] |
| 22:50.24 | fsmithred | you have live-config-refracta, which is supposed to fix lightdm |
| 22:50.39 | fsmithred | that's where the 1-second timeout comes from |
| 22:51.04 | fsmithred | you want autologin or not in live session? |
| 22:51.18 | fsmithred | what do you mean setting it to autologin? |
| 22:51.30 | fsmithred | you think that will get copied into the iso? |
| 22:51.46 | fsmithred | it gets messed with at boot by live-config |
| 22:52.17 | rrq | hmm I found improvements to initramfs-tools (0.130) that are in the way for me; requires the presence of a udev init script and does something new at pivot time; |
| 22:52.46 | fsmithred | oh shit; damned pivot is a recurring nightmare |
| 22:53.04 | fsmithred | last time it was util-linux |
| 22:54.59 | fsmithred | I need to go to the kitchen for a bit. |
| 22:55.12 | fsmithred | rrq, do you want the iso I made with vdev and 4.9 kernel? |
| 22:56.11 | rrq | no I can inspect the broken install with minimal-live thanks |
| 22:57.41 | fsmithred | I'll check versions of stuff after I go throw some food in a pot. |
| 22:59.48 | rrq | thanks. |
| 23:01.07 | greenjeans | still don't see "username=devuan" anywhere |
| 23:02.45 | *** join/#devuan FlibberTGibbet (~David@cust241-dsl93-89-129.idnet.net) |
| 23:03.17 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-46-159.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 23:15.48 | fsmithred | greenjeans |
| 23:16.03 | fsmithred | WHAT USERNAME DO YOU SEE? |
| 23:16.13 | fsmithred | probably the right one, instead of the wrong one. |
| 23:17.41 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@229.85-84-19.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 23:17.43 | aitor | hi |
| 23:18.47 | *** join/#devuan Keziolio (~quassel@fsf/member/Keziolio) |
| 23:19.35 | aitor | 10 seconds have passed and i'm still here |
| 23:19.40 | fsmithred | cool |
| 23:19.41 | fsmithred | hi |
| 23:19.48 | aitor | need to go |
| 23:19.51 | aitor | nooooo |
| 23:19.53 | fsmithred | lol, ok |
| 23:20.01 | fsmithred | chroot: failed to run command '/bin/bash': Exec format error |
| 23:20.12 | aitor | i'm adding more features to simple-netaid |
| 23:20.28 | fsmithred | it's working out? |
| 23:20.37 | fsmithred | rrq, I'm rebooting the laptop |
| 23:20.58 | aitor | a menubar, a toolbar and a right click popup menu showing more info about the active wifi, etc... |
| 23:21.28 | rrq | fsmithread: looks like ascii only offers initramfs-tools 0.130 |
| 23:21.35 | fsmithred | sounds good |
| 23:21.42 | rrq | well :-) |
| 23:21.52 | fsmithred | oh |
| 23:21.59 | fsmithred | um, it's not ascii |
| 23:22.15 | fsmithred | it's jessie with backports kernel and live-* from ascii |
| 23:22.43 | rrq | right; initramfs-tools 1.20+deb8u2 perhaps? |
| 23:22.49 | aitor | fsmithred: chroot: failed to run command '/bin/bash': Exec format error |
| 23:23.01 | aitor | this has already happened to me |
| 23:23.20 | aitor | in some cases |
| 23:24.05 | fsmithred | 0.120+deb8u2 |
| 23:24.12 | fsmithred | sorry |
| 23:24.24 | fsmithred | aitor, you know what causes that? |
| 23:25.00 | aitor | i can't remember now :( |
| 23:25.40 | fsmithred | maybe noexec in the mount |
| 23:25.57 | fsmithred | brb |
| 23:26.10 | aitor | :) |
| 23:30.04 | fsmithred | back |
| 23:30.35 | aitor | hi |
| 23:30.47 | fsmithred | I've done very little with ascii. Upgraded a refracta ascii today that I last upgraded in january |
| 23:32.10 | fsmithred | rrq, is the boot hanging for 30 seconds? |
| 23:32.37 | rrq | no it breaks at pivot... not mount ing root |
| 23:33.00 | fsmithred | hm |
| 23:33.32 | fsmithred | there's some dead code in refractasnapshot around there from a couple years ago |
| 23:33.33 | aitor | i upgraded today my devuan ascii |
| 23:33.40 | fsmithred | don't know if it would help |
| 23:34.39 | rrq | I have ascii running with udev, but installing vdev 0.1.2 breaks it |
| 23:34.49 | fsmithred | commented lines are the ones we added |
| 23:34.52 | fsmithred | mount -n -o move /sys ${rootmnt}/sys |
| 23:34.52 | fsmithred | #nuke /sys |
| 23:34.52 | fsmithred | #ln -s ${rootmnt}/sys /sys |
| 23:34.52 | fsmithred | mount -n -o move /proc ${rootmnt}/proc |
| 23:34.52 | fsmithred | #nuke /proc |
| 23:34.54 | fsmithred | #ln -s ${rootmnt}/proc /proc |
| 23:35.11 | *** join/#devuan cyteen (~cyteen@cyteen42.plus.com) |
| 23:35.31 | fsmithred | that was for some bug in util-linux that got fixed about two years later |
| 23:36.52 | aitor | i have a doubt: does refractasnapshot depend on dbus? |
| 23:37.01 | aitor | the accesibility parts, maybe? |
| 23:37.08 | rrq | mine stops earlier: at mountroot |
| 23:37.20 | fsmithred | what is vdev-0.1.2? |
| 23:37.48 | fsmithred | I have vdevd-2.0.2 and vdev-initramfs-1.2.7 |
| 23:38.14 | rrq | mmm no difference: new packaging just |
| 23:38.25 | rrq | (single package) |
| 23:38.33 | fsmithred | ok, I see it in experimental |
| 23:38.49 | fsmithred | maybe I'll try adding that to my ascii install |
| 23:38.57 | fsmithred | (after I make a snapshot) |
| 23:39.09 | fsmithred | kitchen again. back in a few minutes. |
| 23:39.43 | rrq | it's slightly broken by installing at /lib/amd64-linux-gnu/libudev1.so.1.5.2 which neds to be moved to x86_64-linux-gnu ... but that's a different problem |
| 23:40.24 | aitor | fsmithred is always cooking |
| 23:43.43 | fsmithred | I like to eat |
| 23:43.50 | aitor | Richard Stallman once said: if you are not a good developer, contribute in an other way |
| 23:47.01 | *** join/#devuan kabrarroka (~kabrarrok@229.85-84-19.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 23:47.47 | kabrarroka | aitor: si solo sabes cocinar, es mejor que no hagas nada |
| 23:51.05 | *** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
| 23:54.00 | *** join/#devuan frodo654321 (~lubuntu@79-64-184-30.host.pobb.as13285.net) |
| 23:54.34 | kabrarroka | aitor? |
| 23:54.36 | kabrarroka | ? |
| 23:54.41 | *** part/#devuan frodo654321 (~lubuntu@79-64-184-30.host.pobb.as13285.net) |
| 23:54.59 | kabrarroka | menos mal, por fin se ha ido |