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| 00:20.08 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-04-21 - for real now): Jessie 1.0 RC ** https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 03:22.30 | __stephen | I finally have time to play with the simple-netaid and the git repo is giving me a 502 :-( |
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| 03:25.39 | __stephen | git.devuan.org is giving me a 502... guess I could just go to bed. |
| 03:48.38 | golinux | It's broken here too. Some infrastructure changes are in the works so that may be in process. Or just overloaded building pkgs for the RC2 |
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| 05:45.13 | DPA | I got a devaun t-shirt and a sweatshirt. The t-shirt is fine, but the logo on the sweatshirt is mirrored: https://dpa.li/dv.jpg |
| 05:56.26 | syco_ | lol |
| 06:03.50 | MinceR | apparently they want a derivative distro known as Uvnadc |
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| 06:37.14 | gnarface | wait, what now, there is schwag? |
| 06:37.24 | gnarface | i wnat a devuan hoodie |
| 06:38.51 | MinceR | actually, it isn't mirrored, it's rotated by pi radians |
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| 10:21.13 | callMeWhatUWant | i am looking for a linux distro that is as close to gnu and fsf as possible, and would run on my i5 quad intel and nvidia 960 gtx |
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| 10:22.06 | callMeWhatUWant | i am not an expert or sys admin, but i know the software that i use is available for debian |
| 10:22.15 | OxFEEDBACC | try GNU/Linux... :-/ |
| 10:22.23 | KatolaZ | callMeWhatUWant: try GNU/Linux |
| 10:22.26 | KatolaZ | ooops |
| 10:22.27 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 10:22.34 | OxFEEDBACC | ;-) |
| 10:22.35 | callMeWhatUWant | np |
| 10:22.44 | KatolaZ | callMeWhatUWant: what do you mean? |
| 10:23.03 | KatolaZ | if you use only the "main" repo in Debian or Devuan you are |
| 10:23.15 | callMeWhatUWant | i tried gnewSense and trisquell both no picture |
| 10:23.20 | KatolaZ | as close as you can get "to gnu and fsf", if I understand what you mean |
| 10:23.52 | callMeWhatUWant | fsf.org resources distros , there are just 9 distros |
| 10:24.04 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 10:24.08 | callMeWhatUWant | debian uses kernels that gnu and fsf dont likje |
| 10:24.16 | KatolaZ | callMeWhatUWant: that's incorrect |
| 10:24.37 | KatolaZ | the reason why FSF does not recommend debian is that, in principle, Debian makes available also non-free repositories |
| 10:24.43 | KatolaZ | although they are not enabled by default |
| 10:25.14 | callMeWhatUWant | hm, so i can get a fine kernel with debian and just skip the non-free software ? |
| 10:25.20 | KatolaZ | this has nothing to do with the standard kernel available in Debian/Devuan |
| 10:25.36 | KatolaZ | again, if you stay with the "main" repo, you will only be using Free Software |
| 10:26.10 | KatolaZ | this is valid for Devuan as well (I guess this is what your question is about, since this channel is called #devuan....) |
| 10:26.51 | callMeWhatUWant | fsf stated that debian once used kernels with blobs |
| 10:27.01 | callMeWhatUWant | but that might not be up to date |
| 10:32.22 | callMeWhatUWant | found it: "With the release of Debian 6.0 (âsqueezeâ) in February 2011, these blobs have been moved out of the main distribution to separate packages in the nonfree repository." |
| 10:35.06 | KatolaZ | callMeWhatUWant: we are in May 2017.... |
| 10:35.38 | callMeWhatUWant | can i be sure that debian or devuan doesnt load prepriotory content when my graphics or cpu dont work |
| 10:36.11 | KatolaZ | 11:25 < KatolaZ> again, if you stay with the "main" repo, you will only be using Free Software |
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| 10:37.20 | callMeWhatUWant | y, but regarding hardware firmware might be the issue |
| 10:40.03 | callMeWhatUWant | will devuan make it to the "Free GNU/Linux distributions" list ? |
| 10:40.16 | DPA | If you want to be really sure, you shoud be able to use the linux-libre kernel: https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/ |
| 10:40.38 | DPA | But I haven't tried it |
| 10:40.43 | KatolaZ | callMeWhatUWant: no, it will not |
| 10:40.58 | KatolaZ | since Devuan has the same "problem" as Devuan |
| 10:41.01 | KatolaZ | ~Debian |
| 10:41.17 | KatolaZ | namely, Devuan provides optional access to non-free repos as well |
| 10:41.31 | KatolaZ | there is a Devuan derivative, called heads |
| 10:41.37 | KatolaZ | which uses exclusively free software |
| 10:42.09 | callMeWhatUWant | ok i try it |
| 10:42.14 | callMeWhatUWant | ty for the help |
| 10:42.52 | KatolaZ | np |
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| 10:43.45 | aitor | hi |
| 10:44.05 | KatolaZ | hi aitor |
| 10:44.13 | aitor | hi :) |
| 10:44.26 | aitor | i did more chnges in simple-netaid-gtk |
| 10:45.29 | aitor | i added the disconnect button and the about dialog, including the credits to edward and the license |
| 10:46.05 | KatolaZ | great |
| 10:46.08 | aitor | someone else should be included? |
| 10:46.18 | aitor | if so, tell me :) |
| 10:46.28 | aitor | here you are a new video: |
| 10:46.32 | aitor | http://gnuinos.org/aboutdialog.mpg |
| 10:46.40 | aitor | hope you like it |
| 10:47.06 | KatolaZ | thanks, will have a look at it! |
| 10:47.27 | aitor | thanks, now need to go |
| 10:47.30 | KatolaZ | I guess there is still the same problem with the backend, which depends on lazarus, right? |
| 10:47.45 | KatolaZ | never been able to get around that :( |
| 10:48.16 | aitor | the backend doesn't depend on lazarus, only the frontend |
| 10:48.38 | aitor | you have the packages here: |
| 10:49.01 | aitor | http://packages.gnuinos.org/pool/main/s/simple-netaid/ |
| 10:49.04 | KatolaZ | great! |
| 10:49.11 | aitor | you can clone my repo: |
| 10:49.12 | KatolaZ | will give it a try :) |
| 10:49.36 | aitor | git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/simple-netaid-gtk.git |
| 10:49.45 | aitor | and run: |
| 10:49.48 | aitor | ./build |
| 10:50.16 | aitor | i repeat once again: IAM IN ASCII |
| 10:50.25 | aitor | I AM :) |
| 10:50.41 | aitor | bue , katolaZ |
| 10:50.49 | aitor | bye |
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| 10:51.44 | aitor | KatolaZ hates cmake, but he will need it now |
| 10:51.54 | aitor | :) |
| 10:54.28 | AntoFox | o/ |
| 10:56.12 | AntoFox | there is a package kernel-realtime in debian/devuan??? |
| 10:56.38 | AntoFox | (need to play and record my guitar) |
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| 11:30.34 | detha | why would a mirror object to downloading files with a python script (but at the same time happily allow curl) ? |
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| 12:14.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | moin! |
| 12:15.16 | parazyd | o/ |
| 12:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | detha: good question. Depends on the python script, no? wireshark to the rescue |
| 12:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | could be related to robots.txt maybe |
| 12:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | more precisely to the Browser Identification you send |
| 12:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | or to any slightly non-trivial protocol detail (e.g. "moved temporarily") that gets handled by curl but not by a dead simple python script |
| 12:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I said: wireshark to the rescue. That's my aproach in such situations |
| 12:22.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously less useful with https |
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| 12:34.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | antofox: >>RealtimeKit was written by Lennart Poettering <lennart@poettering.net>.<< ;-P |
| 12:34.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | man rtkitctl |
| 12:46.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm https://packages.debian.org/sid/librtaudio5a |
| 12:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders how to determine if a kernel supports RT-scheduling or not |
| 12:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | it obviously does when e.g. htop shows "PRI: RT" for tasks like "watchdog/0" |
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| 12:59.36 | zdzichu | I don't think you can compile out realtime scheduling classes |
| 13:02.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, don't know. There's a (age old?) kernel patch that introduces that stuff |
| 13:03.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if sth like e.g. `grep sys_rt_sigreturn /proc/kallsyms` would yield authoritative info |
| 13:04.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | or what else would be the canonical way to check for kernel RT support |
| 13:05.51 | parazyd | isn't -realtime a separate linux patch? |
| 13:08.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/realtime/start |
| 13:10.11 | zdzichu | man 7 sched |
| 13:10.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's basically about spinlocks in kernel |
| 13:10.21 | zdzichu | says userspace stuff is available since 2.6.18 |
| 13:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 13:10.54 | parazyd | oh maybe the patch i have in mind was some improvement to it |
| 13:11.10 | parazyd | is sure there was some kind of realtime patch |
| 13:11.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | poetterization? |
| 13:12.16 | zdzichu | parazyd: yeah, there is -rt tree, but as DocScrutinizer05 said, it's mainly about tuning low-level kernel primitives |
| 13:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | man rtkitctl |
| 13:12.24 | zdzichu | for hard real-time requirements |
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| 13:13.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-05-04 Thu 12:56:12] <AntoFox> there is a package kernel-realtime in debian/devuan??? (need to play and record my guitar) |
| 13:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | well... |
| 13:13.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | XY problem? |
| 13:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea if anything in $whatever-AUDIO depends on a package kernel-realtime |
| 13:15.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure Pukeaudio depends on RT scheduling |
| 13:15.44 | zdzichu | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia#Realtime_kernel |
| 13:15.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah :-) |
| 13:16.51 | zdzichu | the problem with RT scheduling is permission. By default it's only available for root (becuase it can starve the system), thus rtkit is supposed to be root-daemon granting RT scheduling to user applications |
| 13:17.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, gathered as much |
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| 13:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the reason PA gets started as root |
| 13:17.36 | zdzichu | on the other hand, it doesn't really work with systemd (cgroups have no realtime scheduling budget), so poettering does not maintain it anymore |
| 13:17.37 | KatolaZ | how can a sane person name something useful "rtkit"?!? |
| 13:17.38 | KatolaZ | really |
| 13:17.49 | JTechno | lol |
| 13:17.56 | parazyd | implying it's not malware ;) |
| 13:17.56 | KatolaZ | that's the preferred name for a rootkit |
| 13:18.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | zdzichu: ROTFL @ Lennart |
| 13:18.04 | parazyd | it's made by poettering, come on :D |
| 13:18.10 | KatolaZ | parazyd: eheheheh, you are right! :D |
| 13:18.20 | parazyd | hahah |
| 13:18.36 | zdzichu | abandonware |
| 13:19.06 | KatolaZ | zdzichu: it will be probably merged into systemd, if it has not been already... |
| 13:19.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | system vulnerability by design |
| 13:19.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | user 'nobody' asking rtkit/systemd to run a fork bomb at realtime |
| 13:19.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | what a bullshit |
| 13:21.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | !poettering |
| 13:21.00 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal |
| 13:28.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly systemd should get renamed to rtkit |
| 13:28.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it is |
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| 13:44.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | re RT it helps to keep in mind what's the definition of "realtime". It just means "an event gets guaranteed serviced in less than N timeunits" where N can be any number and timeunits could even be minutes though usually you want at least milliseconds |
| 13:46.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless a system is still "realtime" (and sufficient for e.g. controlling a railway) when each event _always_ gets serviced in less than 1 second |
| 13:49.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can even "record and playback guitar" on such system, you just need to make sure your audio buffers are all >1s |
| 13:52.35 | parazyd | as long as you have a dedicated audio interface you're fine, even if you don't check 'realtime' in qjackctl |
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| 14:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | my system currently sucks in some regard, since btrfs on md hogs the system for several seconds every now and then, despite RT capabilities. For an audio app you'd need to not only RT schedule the app but also make sure none of the resources (X11 and DE come to mind) is blocking the app and not RT scheduled |
| 14:04.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, don't miss to consider swapping |
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| 14:16.18 | Lydia_K | I've had some seriously bad experiences when it comes to btrfs and performance. |
| 14:16.32 | Lydia_K | I swore I wouldn't use it on anything real again for at least five years. |
| 14:16.40 | Lydia_K | I guess it's been a couple now since that happened. |
| 14:17.11 | parazyd | for me btrfs is only slow when doing very heavy IO |
| 14:17.20 | parazyd | i.e. dd-ing things |
| 14:18.45 | Lydia_K | btrfs (some years ago now) used to totally hang my entire system with I/O wait on a regular basis |
| 14:19.15 | parazyd | not anymore |
| 14:19.22 | parazyd | well, at least not with recent kernels |
| 14:19.26 | Lydia_K | It's got those helper processes, I forget what they are called now, and they would just start hammering the disk and cpu and the box would be unusable for five to ten minutes at a shot. |
| 14:19.48 | Lydia_K | It was some years ago now, but I'm still not touching it till it's more mature |
| 14:19.53 | Lydia_K | snuggles her wonderful ext4 |
| 14:20.54 | parazyd | yeah there's plenty: http://sprunge.us/NJDB |
| 14:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the ps command you used? |
| 14:27.26 | Lydia_K | good lord. |
| 14:27.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed :-) |
| 14:27.44 | Lydia_K | I'm guessing he used "ps -ef f" |
| 14:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | thinks that's all threads |
| 14:27.51 | Lydia_K | the best ps command. |
| 14:27.56 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: ps axf | grep btrfs |
| 14:28.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/24511344 |
| 14:28.53 | parazyd | yeah |
| 14:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/24511351 same |
| 14:30.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yeah, it's one of those critters that hogs my system for a maybe 5 or 10s |
| 14:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I notice that maybe once per day |
| 14:30.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually less than 5s |
| 14:31.05 | Lydia_K | unacceptable. |
| 14:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends, but for sure annoying |
| 14:33.22 | parazyd | i don't experience those hogs, only when dd-ing to a sd card |
| 14:33.22 | parazyd | (that may also be a hardware issue) |
| 14:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | on heavy IO your system runs short of buffers |
| 14:34.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | so $everything has to wait for a virtual 'sync' to finish |
| 14:35.32 | parazyd | yes |
| 14:35.37 | parazyd | think it's a pci limitation? |
| 14:35.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, a system.immanent effect I guess |
| 14:35.59 | parazyd | i see |
| 14:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe related to fs-driver on SD card using dame buffer pool like fs-driver of your /-fsroot |
| 14:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | same |
| 14:37.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe all fs-drivers using same buffer pool, no idea |
| 14:37.45 | parazyd | i'd investigate when it happens, but it's relatively impossible |
| 14:38.12 | parazyd | might me unaware of certain techniques |
| 14:39.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | use dd direct |
| 14:40.29 | parazyd | hmm? |
| 14:40.44 | parazyd | no, the system becomes unresponsive when i dd |
| 14:40.49 | parazyd | and i have to wait it out |
| 14:43.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | dd oflag=direct |
| 14:43.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | = "do not buffer" |
| 14:44.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | dd --help --> direct use direct I/O for data |
| 14:46.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | as a nice side effect, you don't need to bother about issuing a `sync` after dd, before you may remove the USB memstick |
| 14:47.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | of SD card |
| 14:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or* |
| 14:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | without oflag=direct your buffers till hold several 100MB of data to write to the medium, after dd finished with "success" |
| 14:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a reason why I keep this http://wstaw.org/m/2017/05/04/plasma-desktopi22054.png or sth similar on *all* my systems, since I got my first linux with X11 running |
| 14:49.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 14:51.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | like oil temperature and RPM on your car engine :-) You can do without, but when you're serious you want to know |
| 14:54.55 | Lydia_K | I feel like the I/O scheduling got worse in recent years of linux |
| 14:55.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 14:55.07 | detha | DocScrutinizer05: oh, I know what it is. the question is 'Why?' |
| 14:55.31 | zdzichu | well, BFQ I/O scheduler got included in kernel, it is said to help things greatly |
| 14:55.56 | detha | one of the mirrors is behind CF, and has some flag set that makes CF reject certain user-agents |
| 14:56.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2017/05/04/plasma-desktopw22054.png |
| 14:56.17 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: why isn't that the default? |
| 14:56.24 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: oflag=direct |
| 14:56.31 | parazyd | hah, that might help my problems |
| 14:56.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea |
| 14:56.45 | Lydia_K | like 10+ years ago I remember there were some major updates to schedulers and I started using the "Completely Fair Queuing" scheduler and suddenly nothing I could do would my box stall on disk I/O, I would kick off multiple DD's of /dev/urandom at my disk and X would remain totally responsive and snappy. |
| 14:57.00 | Lydia_K | Now if I do that X just hangs on I/O and it's crappy. |
| 14:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | detha: CF = cloudflare the DoS wall? |
| 14:57.59 | parazyd | clownflare |
| 14:58.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | then that's why. your python script considered as a possible attack |
| 14:58.40 | detha | DocScrutinizer05: yup |
| 14:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | precisely: the Browser ID the script provides |
| 14:59.16 | detha | 'The owner of this website has forbidden access by your browser' or something to that effect |
| 14:59.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 14:59.38 | detha | so, 'Why?'. It's a mirror |
| 14:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | the purpose of cloudflare |
| 15:01.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik they adjust their measures "dynamically", and obviously your python script matches some "fingerprint" of a DoS that is dealt with in CF |
| 15:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might ask "why is a mirror behind CF at all?" |
| 15:02.50 | detha | why a mirror behind CF I can understand - it's a CDN after all |
| 15:03.53 | detha | but why a plain urlllib2.urlopen() would trigger anything is a bit vague |
| 15:04.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | because you don't provide a Browser ID? |
| 15:04.38 | parazyd | use python requests |
| 15:04.43 | parazyd | for clownflare bypass |
| 15:06.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>'The owner of this website has forbidden access by your browser' or something to that effect<< clearly indicates you need another (or some at all) Browser ID |
| 15:08.09 | detha | DocScrutinizer05: I know. Easily fixed with adding 'User-Agent: ASM PDP11/23'. Just wondering why |
| 15:08.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | had a patched wget that ignores robots.txt |
| 15:08.21 | buZz | DocScrutinizer05: rebel |
| 15:08.24 | buZz | :) |
| 15:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | detha: obviously your python script matches some "fingerprint" of a DoS that is dealt with in CF |
| 15:11.39 | detha | meh.I just revived the 'keep a VM busy with something useful so they don't switch it off' thing, and more to fix... |
| 15:12.10 | detha | http://devuan.detha.info/mirrors/ |
| 15:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Unknown Host |
| 15:13.06 | detha | interesting. from where? |
| 15:13.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 15:13.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess "in my browser" isn't the answer you expect :-) |
| 15:13.44 | detha | ') |
| 15:13.58 | detha | google dns, ... dns? |
| 15:14.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/24511531 |
| 15:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, http://paste.ubuntu.com/24511535 |
| 15:15.07 | detha | ah, ne'er mind, never renewed that domain |
| 15:15.28 | detha | but the internal nameserver here still knows it |
| 15:16.15 | detha | try http://64.137.249.137/mirrors/ |
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| 15:57.09 | JTechno | what I need to install to run a c# .exe? |
| 15:57.43 | JTechno | I know it's something related to mono but there are plenty of packages |
| 15:59.15 | Lydia_K | Uumm.. isn't it just mono? (I'm totally not sure, but I thought it was just straight up mono) |
| 15:59.32 | JTechno | mono-runtime |
| 15:59.43 | Lydia_K | Ah! |
| 15:59.45 | Lydia_K | Makes sense. |
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| 16:41.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | run a .exe? |
| 16:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeeek! |
| 16:45.04 | lowee[m] | stop wineing about .exe's hurhur |
| 16:45.05 | lowee[m] | and yes, you need mono, unless the dev for some reason used the system32 stuff then you need wine |
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| 16:54.16 | deva | I just migrated a Devuan server from an Intel i5 CPU to the new AMD Ryzen 1800 and now it gives me a kernel panic during boot, similar to this: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1704.3/00096.html |
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| 16:55.09 | deva | As I understand it, the problem is revolved in the 4.10.1 kernel, so now my question is; is it possible to use that kernel through the devuan repositories? |
| 16:58.51 | gnarface | not yet, looks too new |
| 16:58.58 | gnarface | 4.10.0-rc6 is in experimental though |
| 16:59.36 | gnarface | oh, i see 4.11 in experimental too |
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| 17:03.51 | deva | gnarface, Great, thanks :-) |
| 17:07.18 | AntoFox | hi again |
| 17:08.42 | AntoFox | thanks for the link guys |
| 17:08.45 | AntoFox | back on topic realtime |
| 17:09.26 | AntoFox | DocScrutinizer05: I need faster response times |
| 17:09.52 | AntoFox | not much, it is milliseconds |
| 17:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | response to which event? |
| 17:14.49 | AntoFox | DocScrutinizer05: when you play an instrument and the is attached to input the sound comes out with a few millisecond delay, it is not a problem of itself |
| 17:15.23 | AntoFox | but the player "go in crash" if you play with a track below, or recording |
| 17:16.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry you lost me |
| 17:16.42 | gnarface | AntoFox: i see rt kernels in the repo too |
| 17:16.46 | gnarface | linux-image-4.9.0-2-rt-amd64-unsigned |
| 17:16.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | are you talking about time skew between a track in playback and a simultaneously recorded new track? |
| 17:19.14 | gnarface | hmm, well at least i see them in my package cache... |
| 17:20.20 | AntoFox | gnarface: no package in my repo (now I'm on jessie) |
| 17:20.42 | AntoFox | DocScrutinizer05: yes |
| 17:20.44 | gnarface | AntoFox: it would be in unstable |
| 17:20.50 | AntoFox | ah |
| 17:20.50 | AntoFox | ok |
| 17:21.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is no realtime issue but easily handled by adjusting the time skew between tracks. If OTOH you plan to do live effects to an oudio input and have your satge amp connected to the PC output, you face a really tough topic, since usually (by most musicions) even 10ms are considered a too long delay between you playing a note and it getting audible, and 10ms or less delay are hard to achieve with usual soundcard setup |
| 17:21.32 | gnarface | DocScrutinizer05: nonetheless, realtime kernels exist for exactly this purpose |
| 17:21.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 17:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | but for live audio DSP stuff you don't want *any* multitasking |
| 17:22.47 | gnarface | i'm just trying to figure out if the rt kernels i see in my package cache are really there |
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| 17:22.54 | gnarface | (in the repos) |
| 17:23.09 | gnarface | having trouble digging them up on packages.debian.org |
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| 17:32.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a multitrack recording it's maybe a good approach to record instrument on one track (say Left or Live channel) and feedback the playback signal to another recorded track (say Right or Reference channel). Then post recording you adjust timeskew of both recorded new tracks so the reference track has highest correlation with the original playback track, then delete the reference track and keep the adjusted new Live track |
| 17:34.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ideally you get the reference track from a micriphone in front of the speaker playing your playback track, so you got even physical delay from speed of sound in air etc covered |
| 17:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you use headphones then an electrical feedback suffices |
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| 17:36.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | important: don't make the just recorded track the new reference playback track, since that way your skew accumulates from track to track, and after 60 or 80 tracks recorded you again have a skew of 80ms between track#1 and track#80 |
| 17:37.42 | enyc | meows |
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| 17:43.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | note how such multitrack recorder works nicely without any hard realtime requirements |
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| 18:03.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | see http://www.multitrackstudio.com/clicktrack.php for the usual way you use the reference track |
| 18:07.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | you keep that metronome track from start til last step creating the master, and you mix it in to all playback mix that your musicians play their new tracks to. It's your only reference track you use for all recording and mixing/skew-adjust |
| 18:11.09 | AntoFox | cooooool |
| 18:15.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually some clicktracks use unique clicks that in fact are PCM encoded timestamp bursts, thus enabling absolutely unambiguous automatic skew-adjust |
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| 18:45.12 | CaptHindsight | installed the latest ISO and have it running but I need the non-free to get the AMD gpu working properly (resolutions, fonts, accel etc), |
| 18:46.10 | CaptHindsight | I didn't see the non-free repos in the list, am I blind or where should I look for them? |
| 18:46.32 | parazyd | CaptHindsight: you append 'non-free' to the entries in /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 18:46.37 | parazyd | right after 'main' |
| 18:46.54 | CaptHindsight | ok, thanks will try |
| 18:54.29 | gnarface | CaptHindsight: you might need 'contrib' as well |
| 18:54.43 | gnarface | (not sure, but it's customary to enable them together) |
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| 19:01.46 | edbarx | git error: "The authenticity of host 'git.devuan.org (78.26.97.141)' can't be established." |
| 19:02.11 | edbarx | ECDSA key fingerprint is SHA256:Fet+09VDWgPPxb/F9tTmucBh0Lq05zxYOdHW/RaGyZE. |
| 19:03.47 | gnarface | edbarx: maybe you are missing a key? |
| 19:05.02 | edbarx | I am using ASCII. The sources were coded on Jessie, another installation. There is a high probability you are correct. |
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| 19:06.13 | gnarface | oh, maybe you have the package that contains the key, maybe it's just not being passed to git? |
| 19:06.43 | gnarface | hmm, or maybe they switched keys and it's not in the package yet |
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| 20:04.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | one more note regarding multitrack recording with concurrent in-sync playback: when you provide one buffer-P#1 filled with samples to playback to the audiocard, and you provide one "empty" buffer-R#1 to fill it with recorded samples, then you start the clock for the audiocard, then your buffer-R#1 will be in sync with your buffer-P#1. During period#1 you provide the buffers for period#2, and during period#2 you fetch the filled buffer-R# |
| 20:04.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1 and provide buffers for period#3. and so on. No problem as long as no stuff like PolypAudio gets in between |
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| 20:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | the buffer can get as large as several seconds, alleviating any issues with "realtime" |
| 20:07.37 | greenjeans | Hey all, RC2 going up? |
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| 20:11.51 | parazyd | greenjeans: going well |
| 20:12.43 | greenjeans | cool, just logged on and saw what's going on at files.devuan |
| 20:13.37 | parazyd | :) |
| 20:16.21 | greenjeans | oh dang, just downloaded a copy of the RC netinstall, and refreshed page and it's gone now, guess I should wait for RC2 netinstall |
| 20:16.48 | parazyd | haha |
| 20:17.34 | KatolaZ | greenjeans: wait |
| 20:17.40 | KatolaZ | they are still uploading |
| 20:17.46 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 20:18.20 | greenjeans | okay, just need a new netinstall iso to play with |
| 20:18.53 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 20:19.07 | golinux | needs some sleep |
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| 21:01.44 | AntoFox | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_rc/installer-iso/ |
| 21:01.45 | AntoFox | 403 |
| 21:02.13 | fsmithred | nothing there yet AntoFox. I believe the upload is in progress. |
| 21:04.00 | aitor | i'm a man of letters and tomorrow i'll share with you a great poem |
| 21:04.01 | AntoFox | okkei |
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| 21:06.12 | greenjeans | aitor |
| 21:06.38 | kabrarroka | aitor: vete al monte a tocar el arpa |
| 21:06.46 | greenjeans | i like poems |
| 21:07.16 | kabrarroka | vete al monte, y pierdeté! |
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| 21:08.25 | fsmithred | we need a net to catch aitor and keep him here for longer than ten seconds |
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| 21:11.20 | gnarface | why do i feel like his poem is certainly gonna be that allah spam |
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| 21:23.51 | pydsigner | gnarface: sun is not doing! |
| 21:27.34 | jaromil | fsmithred: lol |
| 21:27.57 | jaromil | "i'm a man of letters and tomorrow i'll share with you a great poem" - aitor |
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| 23:02.37 | minnesotags | yeah. I can't get this virtual image to boot with KVM.... |
| 23:03.42 | golinux | Which one? |
| 23:04.15 | parazyd | minnesotags: more info please |
| 23:05.21 | golinux | Ah good you're still up. |
| 23:06.51 | parazyd | i never sleep ;P |
| 23:07.15 | parazyd | except when i'm needed, hah |
| 23:07.38 | golinux | :P |
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