IRC log for #devuan on 20170420

00:00.34DocScrutinizer05as a general rule you probably never should touch any text or binary for execution if you are not competent to decice for yourself if it's rogue or not
00:01.55*** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-133-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
00:05.14DocScrutinizer05don't get me started on evaluating a comaprison between "something on the Internets ending in .sh" and something on the internets called registry-optimizer.exe or the like
00:07.20DocScrutinizer05or your average *.apk
00:09.27furrywolfapk?
00:09.35*** join/#devuan jord__ (~jord@host81-158-174-25.range81-158.btcentralplus.com)
00:09.54DocScrutinizer05andruide crap?
00:10.44DocScrutinizer05colloquially 'nagware with added surprise benefits'
00:11.21furrywolfah.  one of the many reasons I don't own a smartphone.
00:11.37DocScrutinizer05one of the more sane approaches
00:13.07DocScrutinizer05honestly somebody tackling me by arguments containing the words "legit" and "internet" in one sentence makes me feel a little upset
00:16.52DocScrutinizer05particularly when arguing about one of the very few data formats for something executable that are as easy to verify as it gets
00:20.03*** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@rikers.org)
00:20.03*** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-04-12): Jessie 1.0 RC ** https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/
00:20.58Xenguy!infobot
00:20.58infoboti heard infobot is A program on the IRC that helps users, ask it to do something by putting a ~ and then say a command!
00:21.41Xenguy~devuan
00:21.49Xenguy!devuan
00:21.49infobotextra, extra, read all about it, devuan is the most awesome distro, or https://devuan.org
00:25.40*** join/#devuan fleeky (~fleeky@75-101-60-65.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com)
00:36.45*** join/#devuan sauron (~quassel@mail.coruscant.org.uk)
01:02.01*** join/#devuan bn_ (~bn_@c-65-50-70-13.hs.gigamonster.net)
01:35.25*** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p2003005B4B1768002C2A3ADE53222CC2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
01:44.59*** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@x4e3679b1.dyn.telefonica.de)
01:45.32*** join/#devuan jord__ (~jord@185.65.135.91)
02:00.32*** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
02:42.47TheTrueHohoahWhat is the most eficent way to move from Beta to 1
02:43.32XenguyRC has not yet been released...
02:43.43XenguySo go for Beta2, it is quite stable
02:43.46TheTrueHohoahAccording to the website 1.0 RC has been
02:43.50TheTrueHohoahI am on Beta2
02:43.55Xenguyhaha, really?
02:44.00TheTrueHohoahI want to upgrade to newstable, 1
02:44.14XenguyThat's awesome if true
02:44.24TheTrueHohoahIt even says in the channel topic
02:44.29TheTrueHohoahRecent (2017-04-12): Jessie 1.0 RC ** https://devuan.org/
02:44.43XenguyJesus Murphy, you da man
02:44.57XenguyIt's like a stealth release :P
02:45.21XenguySo, how to best upgrade?
02:45.25TheTrueHohoahYes
02:45.58XenguyYou realize this has been released on Bicycle Day?
02:46.14XenguyCoincidence?  I think not!
02:46.43XenguyThere were only 2 things of note invented in Berkeley...
02:46.51XenguyLSD and Unix
02:46.55XenguyCoincidence?  I think not!
02:47.09Xenguy8-D
02:47.46Xenguy!upgrade
02:47.46infobotUpgrading is easy!  Go that way, really fast.  If something gets in your way, turn.
02:47.51Xenguyhaha
02:48.52XenguyBut /topic was set on Apr12, so it's been a few days?
02:49.41XenguyTime for the dreamtime, but see ya tomorrow
03:18.30golinuxTheTrueHohoah: The RC has not been officially released yet.  Announcement is written but not sent yet.
03:18.39TheTrueHohoahOk
03:18.52TheTrueHohoahWhen it is released will I be able to upgrade through apt or is there some complex method
03:19.17golinuxI don't know that the upgraded packages are available in the repos yet.
03:19.50golinuxJust a normal apt upgrade should do it.
03:21.27TheTrueHohoah`apt full-upgrade` or `apt upgrade`
03:29.17gnarfaceapt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade
03:29.25gnarface(standard procedure from debian manual)
03:29.39gnarfaceapt or aptitude should work the same
03:29.43gnarfacethis part hasn't changed from debian
03:29.52gnarfaceonly some of the underlying implementation details at the repo end
03:30.43gnarface(the dist-upgrade part is only necessary when changing to a new release)
04:00.35TheTrueHohoahWhen will the new system be released then? Why make an announcement without actually releasing the system
04:02.35gnarfaceTheTrueHohoah: its
04:03.12gnarfaceTheTrueHohoah: it's called "RC" standing for "release candidate" - the announcement is to get more people to test so that it CAN be released
04:03.21TheTrueHohoahOh
04:03.39gnarfacethink of it like a soft launch
04:03.57gnarfacei don't know of any specific timeline though
04:04.07gnarfacejust "whenever it's done; faster if you help"
04:06.10*** join/#devuan TheTrueHOOHA (~Hohoah@unaffiliated/thetruehohoah)
04:12.30gnarfaceTheTrueHOOHA: there's a decent chance you won't even notice it's not finished yet.  you should give it a try if you've got the spare disk space.
04:20.15*** join/#devuan bkm_ (~bkm@static-50-53-152-175.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
04:21.44gnarfacebrb
04:25.00*** join/#devuan batmore (~batmore@static-50-53-152-175.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
04:32.02*** join/#devuan gnarface (~gnarface@108-227-52-42.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
04:35.04*** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer06 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
05:11.56*** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23)
05:14.37*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
05:16.04gnarfaceTheTrueHOOHA: btw, just fyi I didn't see the actual announcement, but I doubt it was intended to trick you.  most likely it simply never occurred to them that "RC" wasn't commonly-known jargon
05:16.50TheTrueHOOHAI haven't heard "RC" used since 2007 back when I used Windows and was Demo Testing Winsows 7 RC 3
05:16.57TheTrueHOOHAI forgot what it meant
05:17.00TheTrueHOOHAMaybe it is common
05:17.26gnarfaceit's common terminology in Linux because the kernel still uses it regularly
05:18.15gnarfacewe got our own way of doing things over here, some of them will probably remind you of ages past
05:19.01gnarfacemostly that's because Windows had to keep changing the way they do things to meet the expectations of "freshness" from a casual consumer perspective
05:19.12gnarfacewhereas in Linux there was generally no reason to change what works
05:20.18gnarface(RedHat, Inc.'s evil plans notwithstanding)
05:36.31*** join/#devuan peetaur (~peter@p57AAAE2D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
05:57.50*** join/#devuan k0nsl (~k0nsl@feel.the.power.feel.the.k3k.su)
05:57.50*** join/#devuan k0nsl (~k0nsl@unaffiliated/k0nsl)
05:58.04*** join/#devuan paradigm (~paradigm@206.253.165.144)
05:59.25*** join/#devuan jotik (~7f000001@unaffiliated/jotik)
06:34.04*** join/#devuan mns` (~devone@177.13.50.194)
06:56.42*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-84-220-219-135.clienti.tiscali.it)
07:14.02*** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au)
07:17.33*** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@host37-180-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
07:54.47*** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@droidekas.m3cloud.it)
07:57.25*** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo)
08:08.52*** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness)
08:17.05*** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@host37-180-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
08:18.27*** join/#devuan jotik (~7f000001@unaffiliated/jotik)
08:20.33*** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@91.181.29.158)
08:30.07*** join/#devuan godbed (~Wowbagger@HSI-KBW-078-042-209-105.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
08:33.11*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-84-220-219-46.clienti.tiscali.it)
08:33.49*** join/#devuan Deadpan110 (~Deadpan11@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/deadpan110)
08:39.47*** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@athedsl-79969.home.otenet.gr)
08:48.03*** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo)
09:17.33*** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness)
09:53.43*** join/#devuan rrq_ (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au)
09:58.34DocScrutinizer05the freshness of systemd
09:58.38DocScrutinizer05pukes
10:05.26*** join/#devuan djph (~dpurgert@104-57-151-177.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net)
10:18.27*** join/#devuan jord__ (~jord@82.132.184.34)
10:19.59Deadpan110hehehe
10:20.19*** join/#devuan cyteen (~cyteen@58.31.7.51.dyn.plus.net)
10:25.30*** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@185.89.182.128)
10:38.57*** join/#devuan djph (~dpurgert@104-57-151-177.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net)
10:40.06*** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@net-2-32-117-226.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
10:52.33*** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it)
10:59.17*** join/#devuan hightower2 (~hightower@141-136-228-53.dsl.iskon.hr)
11:01.17*** join/#devuan hightower3 (~hightower@141-136-253-232.dsl.iskon.hr)
11:04.06*** join/#devuan jord__ (~jord@82-132-232-126.dab.02.net)
11:06.10Deadpan110<PROTECTED>
11:20.07*** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness)
11:29.47*** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@p2003005B4B1768002C2A3ADE53222CC2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:30.24*** join/#devuan KatolaZ (~KatolaZ@146.185.180.88)
11:35.36*** join/#devuan mns` (b156ff05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.86.255.5)
11:41.39*** join/#devuan DeFender1031 (~DeFender1@46-116-90-83.bb.netvision.net.il)
11:45.10*** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@hq.m3team.it)
12:04.58*** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
12:10.33Xenguy# cat /etc/issue
12:10.35XenguyDevuan GNU/Linux 1 \n \l
12:11.52*** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.75.12)
12:20.11*** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/oldmoss)
12:21.10*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
12:32.07*** join/#devuan Not_a_Robot (~soul@17.red-95-120-85.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
12:34.47AntoFoxo/
12:37.37AntoFoxI work now on task-mate-desktop, what software (browser,mail client, mediaplayer...)  you want on mate 1.14?
12:38.48*** join/#devuan Digitteknohippie (~user@fsf/member/digit)
12:41.43XenguyAntoFox: browser:  firefox ; mediaplayer:  vlc
12:42.20AntoFoxoffice?
12:42.57XenguyI try not to use wordprocessors etc., but when I do I use Libreoffice
12:43.44XenguyCalibre is good for ebooks
12:48.34fsmithredAntoFox, check what the other task---destop packages use
12:49.21fsmithredI would expect some of the major apps to be the same
12:49.42fsmithredgimp, libreoffice, ff-esr,
12:55.44*** join/#devuan dardevelin (~dardeveli@unaffiliated/dardevelin)
12:56.49OldmossAbiword, Gnumeric for "office"
12:57.22AntoFoxfsmithred: yes of course, but I also want your answers, maybe if something is not like I did change
12:58.18OldmossI also have libreoffice installed, but I have ran into compability/corrupt file problems when sending Libreoffice Draw files to Windows user
12:58.31AntoFoxOldmoss: noooooo gnumeric are horrible spreadsheet
12:58.51OldmossGnumeric covers my need :)
12:59.25AntoFoxI know this problem, for this reason I use openoffice
12:59.42Oldmossthe combination of abiword/gnumeric demands less resources than the full libreoffice?
13:00.36Oldmossoh, no problem with Draw files in openoffice?
13:00.40Oldmossmaybe I should try
13:01.33AntoFoxI installed gnumeric once in my life, I don't now  if have need less o more resources
13:01.38fsmithredI put abiword and gnumeric in Refracta to save space
13:02.06OldmossFor mail, I like Claws Mail
13:02.15fsmithredlately I use abiword, but I use libreoffice sometimes and used it all the time when I was in an office
13:02.56fsmithredI think libreoffice is the better choice for a task-*
13:03.44fsmithredthe tasks all pull in lots of extra junk - some of us avoid those packages and put whatever we want
13:04.20Deadpan110~whatever we want~ ...important thing right there
13:09.23AntoFoxfsmithred: I agree, but some desktop users "wan to" a full desktop with junk
13:10.09AntoFoxregarding libreoffice, I think it is included in the task-* but I leave the possibility of choice, libreoffice/openoffice from hezeh
13:10.30*** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/oldmoss)
13:11.01AntoFoxand for ascii I have imported some xapps
13:27.39*** join/#devuan AntoFox1 (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-60-245.clienti.tiscali.it)
13:31.34fsmithredalthough I like it less and less each day, I think icedove/thunderbird should be included in the task.
13:32.11fsmithredWill there also be a mate metapackage that just installs the desktop without extra apps?
13:33.22Lydia_Kfull featured email client is a must for an office type suite of software.
13:36.12gnarfacebsd-mailx doesn't count?  :-p
13:36.25Lydia_KLOL
13:37.07fsmithredgnarface, that gets installed even without a desktop
13:37.13gnarfacei really like thunderbird though
13:37.24gnarfaceit's gotten crashy lately, which is disappointing
13:37.32fsmithredfwiw, task-xfce-desktop does not include a graphical mail client
13:37.51fsmithredyeah, icedove crashes on me several times a week
13:38.13fsmithredspecifically when I'm opening a new email on imap account
13:38.24Lydia_KI never had that sort of an issue with icedove
13:38.31Centurion_Danfsmithred: oh, your doing well... I'm getting crashes most days...
13:38.49fsmithredmaybe inbox is too full, or maybe something buggy with my dng folder, which claims I have >10,000 unread messages
13:38.53gnarfaceinteresting, so it's not just me?
13:38.55Lydia_KI really miss icedove..
13:39.05Centurion_Danstarting to feel like it's taken a leaf out of Outlooks book
13:39.31gnarfacei do have some large amounts of mail in there, which i had suspected may be contributing to the issue, but compositing definitely makes it worse
13:39.40fsmithredCenturion_Dan, I'm feeling like that's a pervasive theme in recent linux.
13:39.58gnarfaceare we gonna have to just fork EVERYTHING?
13:40.03Centurion_DanI must admit I've got 5 imap accounts with probably a couple hundred thousand email spread across them.
13:40.13Centurion_Dangnarface: probably
13:40.18jonadabOh, mail clients.  Everyone should just give in and use Gnus.  You know you want to.
13:40.21Lydia_KStupid parent company took over email and now it's behind a netscaler device, now I need to invest a bunch of time into adding something to davmail to support passing the credentials.
13:41.27*** join/#devuan jathan (~jathan@201.99.106.102)
13:45.35*** join/#devuan bn_ (~bn_@c-65-50-70-13.hs.gigamonster.net)
13:50.29*** join/#devuan snux (~snux@net-47-53-51-79.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
14:02.40*** join/#devuan catprints (~realperso@172.58.83.124)
14:03.12*** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@172.56.38.86)
14:07.48*** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-5d6a4a-68.dhcp.inet.fi)
14:10.05*** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-46-159.vpn.ipredator.se)
14:15.51*** join/#devuan peetaur (~peter@p200300E10BC0E500667002FFFE2E10FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
14:19.55*** join/#devuan alazred (~alazred@176.246.166.147)
14:19.55*** join/#devuan alazred (~alazred@unaffiliated/alazred)
14:20.01*** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux)
14:23.35*** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-63.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net)
14:27.42*** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-133-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
14:35.03*** join/#devuan alazred (~alazred@176.246.166.147)
14:35.03*** join/#devuan alazred (~alazred@unaffiliated/alazred)
14:46.03*** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@72.32.180.179)
14:55.10*** join/#devuan Oldmoss_ (~Oldmoss@anon-46-159.vpn.ipredator.se)
15:06.22*** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo)
15:08.07*** join/#devuan ltem (~ltem@h081217057026.dyn.cm.kabsi.at)
15:10.59*** join/#devuan debgeek (bee46a02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.228.106.2)
15:26.47*** join/#devuan Achylles (~Achylles@177.138.163.69)
15:28.56*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-60-245.clienti.tiscali.it)
15:29.43*** join/#devuan IoFran (~Icedove@189.231.106.86)
15:36.47*** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali)
15:46.01*** join/#devuan b0stik (~b0stik@net-2-42-70-204.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
16:06.34*** join/#devuan refractauser__ (~Oldmoss@anon-46-159.vpn.ipredator.se)
16:08.57*** join/#devuan dardevelin (~dardeveli@unaffiliated/dardevelin)
16:09.46*** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
16:11.03*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
16:20.37*** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu)
16:35.03*** join/#devuan thehornet (~a0225280@192.91.101.30)
16:41.29*** join/#devuan Drugo (~Drugo@62-11-1-95.dialup.tiscali.it)
16:44.47*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-84-220-218-210.clienti.tiscali.it)
16:56.45*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-58-190.clienti.tiscali.it)
17:01.31*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
17:07.27*** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23)
17:28.02Enrico_MenottiHello. I googled a bit but didn't find many docs on setting up Devuan (but I may be wrong). So I'd ask here some things - maybe this is not the right place; please let me know if I should address elsewhere.
17:28.14Enrico_MenottiThe first thing I need to do is configuring the keyboard layout.
17:28.39Enrico_MenottiIf I got it right, in Debian these days this involves systemd; so how to do that in Devuan?
17:32.57KatolaZEnrico_Menotti: console or desktop?
17:34.33Enrico_MenottiConsole.
17:36.58gnarfacedpkg-reconfigure uh...
17:37.14gnarfacewas it console-setup?
17:37.24gnarfaceunless you mean locales
17:37.38gnarfaceor was it keyboard-configuration?
17:37.45gnarfacemaybe dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
17:37.57gnarfacethat makes the most sense, that's the guess i'm going with
17:39.54KatolaZit should be console-setup, IIRC
17:40.06gnarfacei think in some cases you have to do that *and* locales though?
17:40.07gnarfacenot sure
17:40.35gnarfaceEnrico_Menotti: it still basically works the way it worked in debian wheezy and earlier
17:41.43Enrico_MenottiOk, I already configured the locales.
17:44.49Enrico_Menotticonsole-setup sets the fonts, basically. Not the keyboard.
17:47.19*** join/#devuan debgeek (bee46a02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.228.106.2)
17:47.33KatolaZEnrico_Menotti: it's keyboard-configuration
17:47.34KatolaZsorry
17:47.51*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
17:49.59Enrico_MenottiOk, I'm doing that. I have a Fujitsu Siemens lifebook (very old...). I'm wondering whether the right keyboard model be the AMILO laptop (this is the only one listed from that brand).
17:51.07KatolaZEnrico_Menotti: I would try a standard 105 PC keyboard first
17:51.18KatolaZand then try to adjust it if it doesn't work as expected...
17:51.57Enrico_Menotti105 is with the numpad, right?
17:52.47Enrico_MenottiMy keyboard has 88 keys.
17:53.06Enrico_Menotti(Like a piano, if I'm right... :) )
17:54.07KatolaZdoes any of those 88 keys not work as expected?
17:54.08KatolaZ:)
17:54.14KatolaZI mean, when you use 105?
17:55.10Enrico_MenottiI'm trying with the AMILO - let me see - otherwise I will try with the 105. I will see whether is is untuned :) .
18:00.28Enrico_MenottiNone works - tried 4 combinations (AMILO/105 with Italian/Italian+winkeys).
18:03.05Enrico_MenottiIt's strange, because Debian works perfectly (but there I chose the keyboard at installation time).
18:03.22gnarfacei wonder if you have to log out and log back in for the changes to take effect?
18:04.06*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
18:09.53Enrico_MenottiNo difference.
18:10.49Enrico_MenottiOk, I ran again dpkg-reconfigure console-setup. That seems to work.
18:11.18gnarfacehmm, so there is some order you have to run them
18:11.51gnarfacemaybe one of them clobbers the config for another
18:13.53Enrico_MenottiI am trying with the AMILO. Seems to work for the most important things. I also have a fn key which should enable the numpad (which is mapped on some alphabetic characters), but that does not work. Anyway, I will stick here - for my present needs that's enough.
18:14.26gnarfacenumpad is usually numlock key actually
18:15.00gnarfacethe fn key should enable functions labeled in a different distinct color
18:15.04Enrico_MenottiAh yes sorry.
18:15.08Enrico_MenottiThat works.
18:15.11gnarfacecool
18:15.40gnarfaceusually it's there where it falls apart for me typically
18:15.46gnarfaceon different models of laptops
18:16.07gnarfacebrightness will be present but not on the right keys
18:16.11gnarfacestuff like that
18:17.05Enrico_MenottiThe most annoying thing is the caps lock led not working. Also in Debian. I should check with the Win XP which is still on the HD.
18:17.56Enrico_MenottiOk, now I'd need a toolchain for building the driver for the usb dongle. I think there is none installed in the minimal (live) Devuan.
18:26.42*** join/#devuan fbt (fbt@fleshless.org)
18:28.04KatolaZEnrico_Menotti: nope
18:28.11KatolaZyou don't have gcc there
18:28.27fsmithredEnrico_Menotti, you need build-essential and linux-headers-<kernel version>
18:29.19Enrico_MenottiSo now my problem is that I don't have a network to download these packages, so I need to download them on my other computer. I'm trying to find the right repository. Seems not that easy.
18:31.55gnarfaceauto.mirror.devuan.org?
18:32.24Enrico_MenottiYes, I'm there, trying to find my way.
18:35.06gnarfacebuild-essential is actually a metapackage that points to a bunch of stuff
18:35.52Enrico_MenottiI have it on Debian - I have downloaded it on my other computer, and put it on a usb drive with all its dependencies.
18:36.10Enrico_MenottiBut I am unable to find it for Devuan.
18:36.43gnarfacei don't think meta packages show up in the repo directory that contains the actual packages
18:36.45gnarfacei could be wrong
18:37.25fsmithredEnrico_Menotti, what's the other computer running? If it's debian jessie, I'm pretty sure you can download the packages from there
18:37.36Enrico_MenottiNo, it's a Mac...
18:37.42fsmithredoh
18:38.10fsmithredgcc g++ make dpkg-dev
18:38.20fsmithredI'm pretty sure you already have libc6
18:38.46Enrico_MenottiBut I even don't find gcc... I'll look again.
18:38.57gnarfacealso libc6-dev libc-dev
18:39.04gnarfacealso libc6-dev OR it says i guess libc-dev
18:39.21Enrico_MenottiI'm in /devuan/pool/main on auto.mirror.devuan.org.
18:39.33fsmithredoops, yeah libc6-dev
18:39.47fsmithredI'm going by apt-cache depends build-essential
18:39.57fsmithredheaders need some other pkgs, too
18:40.37Enrico_MenottiI found debootstrap, that could be useful later on.
18:43.13Enrico_MenottiIs it possible that the packages don't show up when the site is accessed by a browser, but they need to be downloaded by apt-get?
18:43.38*** join/#devuan cyteen (~cyteen@58.31.7.51.dyn.plus.net)
18:43.55gnarfacetheoretically, yes, but i'm not betting on that being the problem here
18:44.31fsmithredlinux-headers-3.16.0-4-amd64
18:44.31fsmithred<PROTECTED>
18:44.31fsmithred<PROTECTED>
18:44.32fsmithred<PROTECTED>
18:44.42fsmithredwhat website are you on?
18:45.40gnarfacethere is also packages.devuan.org now
18:45.41Enrico_Menottiauto.mirror.devuan.org. When accessed by a browser, I get a directory tree.
18:45.47Enrico_MenottiAh.
18:45.59fsmithredI can't get to it
18:46.02gnarfaceit might not be any more helpful
18:46.22Enrico_Menottignarface Which one is not helpful?
18:46.38gnarfacepackages.devuan.org ... the interface is a bit rough
18:47.06fsmithredbrowser won't go where I tell it
18:47.59*** join/#devuan RilloBiley (5ec032d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.192.50.214)
18:49.08Enrico_MenottiI am also reading https://devuan.org/os/packages/list/forked-from-debian. No sign of build-essential, nor gcc.
18:49.16fsmithredI think you will only find packages that have been changed by devuan
18:49.20fsmithredright
18:49.27fsmithredget them from packages.debian.org
18:49.35fsmithredthey are the same
18:49.57fsmithredI didn't find anything in the deps that had devuan in the file name
18:50.02fsmithredpackage name
18:51.53Enrico_MenottiWhat about the warning "The package repositories for Devuan are exclusive and they should not be used in addition to Debian" at https://devuan.org, right after "Packages"?
18:55.19Enrico_MenottiAlso, if I manage to get a network access, should I use just the sources listed there (auto.mirror.devuan.org) or also the Debian mirror?
18:55.40fsmithredyes, normally any unchanged packages get pulled from debian
18:55.41fsmithredso
18:55.41KatolaZEnrico_Menotti: no debian mirror
18:55.43fsmithredin devuan
18:55.49gnarfacei use auto.mirror.devuan.org
18:56.03fsmithredapt-get install build-essential works by pulling from debian
18:56.12Enrico_MenottiSo all packages should be there, right?
18:56.23fsmithredbut since you don't have a connection, you need to pull them yourself
18:56.27fsmithredall should be where?
18:56.41fsmithrednot at auto.mirror.devuan
18:56.50fsmithredthey are not held on a devuan server
18:57.11fsmithredonly the changed packages are on devuan server
18:57.16Enrico_MenottiAh ok. So at auto.mirror.devuan.org just the specific Devuan packages are listed, right?
18:57.24fsmithredit's a fancy filter
18:57.45fsmithredsmart enough to give you devuan packages that exist and debian packages for the rest
18:58.33fsmithredbut the warning is correct - don't put debian in sources.list
18:58.39Enrico_MenottiIn some way, if I got it, when a Debian package is required it redirects to the Debian repos, right?
18:59.51gnarfacei did not realize this
19:00.12gnarfacethat does explain why it works with apt-get but not with a browser though
19:01.13Enrico_MenottiSo at this point I already have all the toolchain in my usb drive. I will install with dpkg from there. After dinner, though. Thank you everybody.
19:04.25*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
19:04.36*** join/#devuan Weeezie (~Weazzy@179-113-181-66.dsl.sacoriver.net)
19:11.30*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-207.clienti.tiscali.it)
19:26.45*** join/#devuan Achylles (~Achylles@177.138.163.69)
19:36.42fsmithredgnarface, when you use apt-get, you ask the devuan repo for a package, and it knows which packages it has and which it has to pull from debian.
19:37.32fsmithredwhen you look with a browser, it just shows you the packages on that server
19:37.37fsmithredthe devuan packages
19:38.14fsmithredoh, i need glasses
19:38.39fsmithredyou said "does explain" but I read "does not explain". Sorry for the useless explanation.
19:41.27*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-207.clienti.tiscali.it)
19:48.11*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
19:51.20jaromileheheh fsmithred i wanna see how much you last once the release is out, with all the questions coming... srsly take it easy :^D
20:01.30*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
20:05.15*** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness)
20:09.26*** join/#devuan enoch (~enoch@unaffiliated/enoch)
20:22.45Enrico_MenottiI have installed the toolchain. It's been a quite annoying story - many dependencies. Now I'm trying to build my driver. I have an issue: the /lib/modules/<version>/build directory is not there. If I create it, I get "No rule to make target 'modules'". Now?
20:22.57*** join/#devuan amphi (~amphi@167.red-81-32-135.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
20:28.37Enrico_MenottiMaybe just install linux-headers-<kernel>?
20:37.22*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-207.clienti.tiscali.it)
20:39.02*** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux)
20:46.21*** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu)
20:58.09*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-207.clienti.tiscali.it)
21:02.27*** join/#devuan peetaur (~peter@p200300E10BC0E50060084FFFFE6531BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:02.50*** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness)
21:03.04*** join/#devuan sh4 (~sh4@unaffiliated/sh4)
21:03.14*** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo)
21:19.08*** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo)
21:34.32*** join/#devuan amphi (~amphi@167.red-81-32-135.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
21:37.28*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-207.clienti.tiscali.it)
21:50.35*** join/#devuan mns`` (~devone@177.13.50.194)
21:53.53*** join/#devuan jotik (~7f000001@unaffiliated/jotik)
21:54.25*** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@46.165.242.166)
21:54.39*** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo)
21:56.08*** join/#devuan jotik (~7f000001@unaffiliated/jotik)
21:56.48DocScrutinizer05recall this? [2017-04-16 Sun 21:05:36] <DocScrutinizer05> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5644 <DocScrutinizer05> last comment is so to the point <golinux> I was just going to post that. Here it is!  "maybe handover dev of this toy to someone with unix experience"
21:57.06DocScrutinizer05compare now! ruthlessly censored
21:57.25DocScrutinizer05then locked
21:59.06DocScrutinizer05btw who's maintaining http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd ?
21:59.48MinceR#debianfork users, i think
21:59.52DocScrutinizer05aaah already added. :-) thanks!!
21:59.54MinceRi sometimes make changes
21:59.55MinceRrarely
22:01.09DocScrutinizer05last in http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd#Absurd_Bugs_and_Responses
22:02.00*** join/#devuan jotik (~7f000001@unaffiliated/jotik)
22:05.11*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-207.clienti.tiscali.it)
22:07.03*** join/#devuan dardevelin (~dardeveli@unaffiliated/dardevelin)
22:14.32*** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-41-207.clienti.tiscali.it)
22:21.08DocScrutinizer05https://www.preining.info/blog/2017/04/systemd-again/#comment-38174
22:23.18*** join/#devuan Katnija (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu)
22:25.43Enrico_MenottiAt last, I have the wlan working. But I found some issues.
22:25.54KatolaZcool Enrico_Menotti
22:26.18KatolaZplease report feedback on the issues
22:27.03Enrico_MenottiFirst, the gcc version required by build-essentials and linux-headers is different (4.9 for the former, 4.8 for the latter, if I'm right). So I had to install both. With all correspondent dependencies.
22:27.39Enrico_MenottiSecond, the wlan interfaces is named in a very complicated way, not just as wlan0. Don't know whether the name be the same at each reboot.
22:28.28Enrico_MenottiThird, there is a folder /etc/network/interfaces.d, as in Debian, but the files in there are not seen by the system. I had to configure the interface in /etc/network/interfaces.
22:28.45Enrico_MenottiThat's it. Hope having been useful.
22:29.45KatolaZEnrico_Menotti: oytu have setnet,sh
22:29.48KatolaZsetnet.sh
22:29.51KatolaZfor network configuration
22:30.32Enrico_MenottiI don't know that. I followed the instructions at the Debian wiki. What's this?
22:30.45KatolaZa simple dialog tool
22:30.52KatolaZto configure networking
22:31.32Enrico_MenottiOk, but the two facts about the interface I reported are true, right?
22:31.43KatolaZdunno about wlan names
22:31.47KatolaZI will double-check
22:32.06Enrico_MenottiAnd the files in interfaces.d?
22:33.56fsmithredEnrico_Menotti, are you running ascii?
22:34.15Enrico_MenottiJessie.
22:34.23fsmithredwhat's the interface name?
22:34.55Enrico_MenottiWell, don't have it handy now. Very long... some wl followed by a long quite random string.
22:35.07Enrico_MenottiSorry, I already turned the computer off.
22:35.27fsmithredthe mis-match between gcc that gets installed and gcc that was used to compile the kernel is a constant aggravation to me from debian for almost a decade
22:36.14fsmithredok
22:37.03fsmithredjust wondering if it was the new naming method, which makes especially crazy names
22:37.30fsmithredbased on the slot for pci, and I don't remember what usb dongle interface name looks like, but I think I had bad dreams about it
22:37.44*** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@athedsl-79969.home.otenet.gr)
22:37.48Enrico_MenottiAlso the ethernet has a strange name.
22:37.52fsmithredbut that shouldn't be in jessie
22:37.59fsmithredenps0...
22:38.04fsmithredsomething like that?
22:38.07Enrico_MenottiYes.
22:38.16fsmithredsomething fishy going on
22:38.25fsmithredyou should not have that in jessie
22:38.36Enrico_MenottiMy image is called "Jessie".
22:39.14fsmithrediso or embedded image?
22:39.22Enrico_Menottidevuan_jessie_RC_i386_minimal-live.iso
22:39.28fsmithredoh yeah
22:39.50fsmithredthere's a way to revert to the old naming method
22:39.53fsmithredI'll find link
22:40.17Enrico_MenottiOk. We can see that tomorrow. Now it's very late. I have to go to bed. Thank you.
22:41.12fsmithredhttps://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
22:41.31Enrico_MenottiSystemd?
22:41.52fsmithredyes, udev
22:42.14fsmithredit says from v. 197 on, and I've got 215, so maybe it can happen in jessie
22:42.23fsmithredbut I never see it, and I do a LOT of installs
22:43.19fsmithredpass the net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line
22:43.27fsmithredsimple fix
22:43.32Enrico_MenottiIs udev in Devuan? I thought it was part of systemd.
22:43.41fsmithredyes, it's in devuan
22:44.03Enrico_MenottiSo no systemd but yes udev, right?
22:44.08KatolaZI thought I had that one set...
22:44.08fsmithredyou can replace it with vdev
22:44.14KatolaZgotta recheck it again
22:44.20KatolaZsorry Enrico_Menotti!
22:44.47OldmossI have "/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules"
22:44.54fsmithredguess I need to start using that in the tools
22:45.06fsmithredyeah, so do I Oldmoss
22:45.09OldmossFound it when my ethernet stopped working
22:45.25fsmithreddid you move a hard drive to another box?
22:45.38Oldmossit started on eth0, then eth1 etc
22:45.47fsmithredyup
22:45.47OldmossNow I am on eth3
22:45.58fsmithredyou can delete that file and it will be regenerated on reboot
22:46.03fsmithredand you'll have eth0 again
22:46.12fsmithredbut what's making it increment?
22:46.19OldmossNo, this HD has been in all years, not been moved from anywhere
22:46.29fsmithredI gotta go
22:46.39OldmossI don't know what happens
22:46.45*** join/#devuan TemporalBeing (~Ben_Meyer@172-6-231-63.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net)
22:46.53Enrico_MenottiI had that issue on the n900 with Debian.
22:47.11Enrico_MenottiThe wireless driver is giving the driver a random mac address.
22:47.36Enrico_MenottiSo at each boot the system does not recognise the interface and, due to the persistent net rules, gives it a new name.
22:49.36Enrico_MenottiThe solution I found by googling is to create an "empty" file 75-persistent-net-generator.rules (actually, I put a # in it).
22:49.53Enrico_MenottiAt this point, no more persistent net rules.
22:51.14Enrico_MenottiOk, good night.
22:52.31DocScrutinizer05lol yeah. 75-persistent-net-generator.rules overrides 70-persistent-net.rules
22:52.51DocScrutinizer05my uneducated guess
22:54.38golinuxDocScrutinizer05: Good that you saved that quote for posterity.  It's also on dng iirc.
22:57.43DocScrutinizer05I wonder how that comment vanished from git
22:58.03DocScrutinizer05must still exist somewhere, no?
22:58.24DocScrutinizer05git cracks to the rescue!!
22:59.29golinuxAll dictators like to erase history.
22:59.46*** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@46.165.242.166)
23:01.39DocScrutinizer05git is supposed to defeat such censorship
23:02.35DocScrutinizer05git is a strictly history based 'filesystem' AIUI. You simply can't delete one intermediate state
23:03.15DocScrutinizer05you can corrupt it when you have root access
23:03.28DocScrutinizer05but then at least the corruption still is visible
23:04.04KatolaZDocScrutinizer05: you can stash commits and force a rebase
23:04.08DocScrutinizer05well, s/root/system level/
23:04.46DocScrutinizer05wouldn't a remote rebase also show up in server side git 'history'
23:04.48DocScrutinizer05?
23:05.18*** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au)
23:06.17DocScrutinizer05so unless poettering has system level access (aka unix shell account) to github.com, I don't see how he could make comments vanish completely
23:07.21DocScrutinizer05but then, I never really looked into how gitblub works
23:07.58DocScrutinizer05maybe the ticket system isn't even git based, no idea here
23:16.12DocScrutinizer05to start with, there should be a git specific view to the tickets/comments content. Without that, the comment is lost for the greater public
23:16.46golinuxWould it be in the waybackmachine?
23:17.23DocScrutinizer05if somebody triggered a backup, yes
23:17.59DocScrutinizer05(git) sth like git checkout https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/  or somesuch?
23:18.18DocScrutinizer05nfc, git noob here
23:20.45DocScrutinizer05err, git clone https://github.com/systemd/  ?
23:21.30DocScrutinizer05don't know if sth like web/ or www/ or issues/ wold be available in there
23:22.34KatolaZDocScrutinizer05: if you want to clone the repo, you should try
23:22.43KatolaZgit clone https://github.com/systemd/systemd
23:23.17DocScrutinizer05cloning
23:23.33DocScrutinizer05tried git clone https://github.com/systemd/ - failed
23:23.58KatolaZthat's just the user's directory
23:24.05KatolaZ(yes, the username is systemd)
23:25.00DocScrutinizer05hmm, http://paste.ubuntu.com/24423524
23:25.41*** join/#devuan aaro (~aaro@unaffiliated/xyox/x-040147)
23:31.07*** join/#devuan Achylles (~Achylles@177.138.163.69)
23:32.56*** join/#devuan menip (~menip@c-73-83-133-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
23:41.09DocScrutinizer05no luck in this git clone, not even with grep
23:41.45KatolaZDocScrutinizer05: dunno whether clone also gets issues
23:42.08DocScrutinizer05pnviously not, though it's a question what you're cloning ;-)
23:42.14DocScrutinizer05obviously*
23:43.21DocScrutinizer05git clone https://github.com/systemd/systemd/www or whatever still may exist
23:43.48DocScrutinizer05oops sorry
23:43.58DocScrutinizer05git clone https://github.com/systemd/www
23:44.37DocScrutinizer05as stated, no clue about gitblub here
23:45.53DocScrutinizer05well, I think I've been enough of OT to piss off a lot of people in here, so I'll shut up

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.