00:01.46 | gnu_srs2 | ping^^ |
00:02.11 | furrywolf | no comment. |
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00:03.29 | aitor | hi, gnu_srs2 |
00:03.51 | aitor | we are alone |
00:05.19 | gnu_srs2 | quoting: (06:46:39 PM) moosnat: Hello, I'm curious how things that use systemd-logind will work on Devuan. In particular, Wayland compositors use systemd-logind to hand off input device handles to libinput, avoiding the need for suid on the compositor binary. How will that work on Devuan? |
00:05.44 | gnu_srs2 | and btw: hi aitor |
00:05.50 | aitor | hi, furrywolf too |
00:10.53 | furrywolf | heyas |
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00:25.10 | aitor | parazyd: failed attemt |
00:25.15 | aitor | http://gnuinos.org/linux_4.4-1~jessie1_amd64.build |
00:25.57 | aitor | no worries :) |
00:28.19 | aitor | attempt:) |
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07:11.28 | acksyn | just passing by, letting you know I'll be mirroring files.devuan.org (https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues/144) |
07:12.20 | acksyn | --and thanks for your work ;) |
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07:56.57 | aitor | g'morning |
07:58.40 | aitor | i did a little change in the debian branch: debian/bin/buildcheck.py file |
07:58.55 | aitor | trying again with linux-heads :) |
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09:25.41 | aitor | here you are the new log file: |
09:25.44 | aitor | http://gnuinos.org/linux_4.4-1~jessie1_amd64.build1 |
09:26.14 | aitor | bin/sh: 1: scripts/basic/fixdep: not found |
09:27.19 | aitor | there was a .gitignore file in scripts/basic containing both fixdep and bin2c |
09:29.35 | aitor | i meant to say .build file :) |
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09:38.23 | aitor | brb/bbl |
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11:36.26 | stavros | hello, how can I add the nonfree and contrib repos? |
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15:22.34 | bart9h | Hi. |
15:24.39 | bart9h | I upgraded from jessie to ascii last night (s/jessie/ascii/g on sources.list, then apt-get update/dis-upgrade; is this the right way?), now I can't set the mouse speed. |
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15:26.10 | bart9h | mate-mouse-properties do nothing. tried `xset m` too. tried low and high values, and the pointer speed remains the same. |
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15:39.28 | fsmithred | bart9h, you did it the right way, but not much attention has been given to ascii |
15:39.40 | fsmithred | focus is on jessie right now |
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15:47.37 | wulllst | is it in any way problematic to use the beta 1 installation cd to install devuan now? |
15:51.18 | Xenguy | wulllst: Worked fine for me... |
15:51.50 | Xenguy | That was before beta2 was issued |
15:52.04 | wulllst | Xenguy: well, as i percieve it, software is being updated during the installation process anyway, so there should be no problem. but i'm not 100% sure. |
15:52.51 | Xenguy | I believe that all the updates to beta2 get pulled in via apt-get, yes |
15:53.14 | wulllst | btw, looking at the installation method menu of that cd, there's "graphical install" first and "install" second. may that should be changed around if that hasn't already been done |
15:53.48 | Xenguy | Dunno (I've always stuck with regular/ncurses install myself) |
15:55.38 | wulllst | Xenguy: me too. |
15:56.09 | bart9h | fsmithred: thanks for the heads up. luckly I'm trying my first btrfs in / (/home is still ext4), and made a snapshot before the upgrade. |
15:58.24 | bart9h | I have no much free time now, but I can help testing[1] ascii (and eventually reporting bugs) when it's more ready for an end user |
15:58.42 | bart9h | [1] testing only what I regularly use, of course |
15:59.58 | fsmithred | oh, you're into all kinds of experiments |
16:00.23 | fsmithred | yeah, I hope to be doing that soon |
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16:19.58 | BluesKaj | hi folks, was just reading about this OS, nice to see an effort to bypass systemd . I'm considering installing jessie ...suppose a clean install of both / and home is recommended ? |
16:20.20 | BluesKaj | err /home |
16:20.34 | muep | I see no reason to wipe /home just because you are changing to a closely related OS |
16:21.02 | muep | mostly I would consider doing it when changing to something vastly different or when downgrading |
16:21.04 | BluesKaj | muep, well it's debiuan stretch |
16:21.14 | BluesKaj | debian |
16:22.04 | muep | ah ok, then you might take the same precautions as when downgrading, because some program versions in jessie might get confused when you give them config files of their future versions |
16:22.21 | muep | but even then it depends a bit on what software you use |
16:26.09 | BluesKaj | pretty ordinary , mainly this pc is used as a media server with kodi and vlc the main palyers and I normally purge pulse audio since intel is the audio chip. as long as alsa-base and utils work ok audiowise , then I think it'll be fine |
16:27.38 | BluesKaj | and openvpn and qbittorrent |
16:29.22 | BluesKaj | nvidia 8400GS pci gpu , probly the 340 driver |
16:32.45 | BluesKaj | is jessie in beta or is that an early release ? |
16:33.42 | BluesKaj | muep,^ |
16:34.38 | golinux | BluesKaj: Yes, beta2 but very stable. |
16:34.55 | golinux | RC on its way |
16:37.33 | BluesKaj | ok , 9.1 Gb? what gives, why such a large image? |
16:39.24 | wulllst | BluesKaj: where are you trying to download from? |
16:39.50 | wulllst | BluesKaj: try this: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_beta/ |
16:41.29 | BluesKaj | wulllst, yeah already got it ...netinstall looks good to me |
16:41.38 | BluesKaj | thanks |
16:48.32 | BluesKaj | I need to do a clean install for both / and /home since jessie uses plasma 4 and stretch is plasma 5 , the config files will be quite different methinks |
16:50.42 | tomg2 | eh I would just try it, and if it doesn't work, delete your kde configs, or (move) all the configs if you feel like it |
16:50.49 | tomg2 | it's likely to work fine |
16:53.24 | BluesKaj | ok , is there a choice like the debian installer to choose KDE over the default which I assume is Unity ? |
16:54.20 | wulllst | you can choose between different desktop env. during installation |
16:54.48 | wulllst | the devuan installer works "just like" the debian installer |
16:54.55 | BluesKaj | ok great, thanks wulllst |
16:55.23 | muep | my impression is that davuan does not ship unity at all |
16:55.29 | BluesKaj | ok here goes , BBL |
16:55.37 | muep | few distros apart from ubuntu du |
16:55.38 | muep | *do |
16:55.57 | wulllst | muep: right. and the gnome option has been reported to be broken. |
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17:25.39 | sgage | hi all |
17:25.50 | furrywolf | heyas |
17:26.21 | sgage | wullst, doesn't gnome now depend on systemd? So naturally the gnome option would be broken. |
17:26.36 | sgage | It shouldn't even be offered as an option. |
17:30.31 | wulllst | sgage: ok, i didn't know that was the reason it was broken. but i think it would be pretty sane to drop gnome. |
17:31.08 | sgage | I agree - dropping gnome would be quite sane. |
17:31.46 | muep | maybe for some value of gnome, but e.g. xfce also uses things that are part of gnome in some sense |
17:33.39 | sgage | I meant Gnome Shell as a full on DE. Lots of other DE's/WM's use bits of gnome. MATE does. |
17:40.28 | furrywolf | I use icewm. I believe it is 100% gnome-free. |
17:44.38 | sgage | I'm sure icewm is 100% gnome-free! I love icewm - it was my main WM for many years. |
17:45.28 | sgage | Maybe I'll try it again for old time's sake :-) |
17:45.41 | wulllst | well, icewm itself probably doesn't use any gnome bits, but try "dpkg -l *gnome*" |
17:52.16 | sgage | all kinds of gnome bits |
17:52.26 | sgage | in my MATE installation |
17:53.24 | furrywolf | what did you switch to instead of icewm? |
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17:58.19 | sgage | Mostly the original Gnome - used it and some KDE right up until Gnome 3. Tried to warm up to Gnome 3, but couldn't do it. |
17:59.14 | sgage | I had work to do besides customizing menus :-) |
17:59.33 | furrywolf | I don't like kde or gnome. heh. |
18:00.09 | furrywolf | I like icewm, but sometimes other people need to use something I put together, and they're always "eww, what's this? why is there nothing on the desktop? whine whine whine"... |
18:01.52 | sgage | I never really liked kde - too fiddly. Gnome 2 was OK for a while. All the modern DE's are bloat monsters. |
18:02.35 | sgage | MATE is pretty nice, pretty smooth. I'm not kidding - maybe I'll try icewm again. |
18:02.57 | DeFender | I hought KDE3 was pretty good. Sane defaults, customizable any way you wanted... |
18:04.02 | furrywolf | sane defaults, like a single click to open things, and crashing about as often as windows? oh, wait, there's no option for the latter one... |
18:05.03 | DeFender | furrywolf, that's only the default if you select the option that sets that in the initial config wizard. |
18:05.16 | DeFender | And I never had any problems with crashing frequently |
18:05.41 | furrywolf | I've alaways found kde to be slow, bloated, ugly, unstable, and in my way. |
18:05.57 | DeFender | KDE 4 is. |
18:08.30 | wulllst | CDE is also freely available nowadays â just to menation (well, yes, it's kind of a joke, too) |
18:09.21 | sgage | I tend to agree with furrywolf. I just didn't like the aesthetics of it, nor the over-designed philosophy. |
18:09.43 | DeFender | I can see I'm not going to win this one... |
18:10.02 | furrywolf | the job of software is to help me get things done. this means it should be as little in the way as possible. |
18:10.29 | DeFender | agreed. |
18:10.53 | DeFender | I'm just not sure how you think it was "in the way" |
18:11.20 | sgage | Again, fw, I agree - You look at Gnome 3/KDE 5/Windows 10/OSX/etc., and they all want to be the star of the show. |
18:11.30 | muep | I think people just use it as a shorthand for "operates differently from how I like" |
18:11.35 | wulllst | it seems putting together a desktop environment that is usable and sane has become more difficult on linux recently. |
18:11.53 | furrywolf | brb |
18:12.04 | sgage | Oh so modern and 'integrated' with all your favorite "social" media. |
18:13.00 | sgage | muep: a lot of it simple personal aesthetics and work flow, yes. |
18:13.56 | muep | e.g. I mostly consider gnome to succeed in staying out of my way |
18:14.58 | wulllst | talking about desktop environments, will there be a package for mdm (mate/mint display manager) in devuan ascii? |
18:16.29 | furrywolf | bbl, helping someone with plumbing |
18:16.51 | fsmithred | wulllst, is it in debian repos? |
18:17.29 | wulllst | fsmithred: not that i know of. at least not as "mdm" |
18:17.49 | fsmithred | then it's not likely |
18:18.06 | fsmithred | unless some of the folks working on mate do it |
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18:21.06 | wulllst | fsmithred: sad. i mean, you could use slim instead of lightdm (which i don't like). but afaik development has stopped a while ago. |
18:21.21 | wulllst | i mean slim development |
18:22.21 | wulllst | but, interestingly, wikioedia tells me: "As of September, 2016, GhostBSD 10.3 replaced GDM with SLiM." |
18:23.26 | Lieke_ | there's also lxdm |
18:24.19 | wulllst | Lieke_: ok, just discovered that there's a package for it in testing. nice. |
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18:26.34 | sgage | OK, here I am, coming to you from glorious icewm... wow, is it snappy! |
18:27.13 | fsmithred | yeah, nothing wasted there |
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18:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>crashing about as often as windows<< can't comment on that since I don't know how often windows crashes (don't use it basically), but it seems to insinuate KDE crashes frequently which I can't really confirm |
18:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | it sucks in a multitude of ways but it's for sure not constantly crashing |
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18:53.48 | aitor | hi |
18:53.58 | fsmithred | hi aitor |
18:54.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | KDE4 that is |
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18:56.32 | aitor | DocScrutinizer05: you are in the maemo project... |
18:58.45 | aitor | ? |
18:59.43 | aitor | more people are involved: Pali, freemangordon... |
19:00.06 | aitor | which is the priority in maemo? |
19:00.23 | aitor | Qt, Gtk, Gtkmm? |
19:02.02 | aitor | perhaps this is a question for the maemo forum |
19:05.20 | aitor | wich |
19:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | aitor: /join #maemo |
19:10.09 | aitor | ok, i'm suscribed in the forum, but not in the irc, thanks |
19:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | aitor: I'd nevertheless try to answer your question - alas it's too unspecific |
19:11.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hildon desktop is gtk iirc. A lot of apps are Qt |
19:12.05 | aitor | ok, thanks |
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19:13.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide |
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19:17.24 | aitor | there is also a maemomm |
19:19.09 | aitor | need to go, see you :) |
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19:32.19 | BluesKaj | ok , Devuan installed successfully without much trouble, even most of my bashrc aliases were saved |
19:36.44 | golinux | BluesKaj: Congrats! |
19:44.12 | BluesKaj | golinux: thanks :-) |
19:55.36 | Xenguy | BluesKaj: Which DE did you end up using? |
19:58.07 | BluesKaj | Xenguy: kde/plasma |
19:58.23 | BluesKaj | been a kde guy for many yrs |
19:59.12 | Xenguy | I wasn't sure whether kde would be too encumbered by systemd |
19:59.39 | Xenguy | It sounds like Gnome is (excuse me just one sec) |
19:59.47 | Xenguy | stabs Gnome to death... |
19:59.58 | Xenguy | back, there, where were we |
20:00.01 | Xenguy | =) |
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20:00.33 | Xenguy | So good to know KDE is an option |
20:01.06 | Xenguy | I find KDE too busy for me personally, but some people really enjoy extreme configurability, so I get it |
20:05.49 | BluesKaj | Xenguy: never found it too busy , but gnome and uniy don't have the features and the 'look" that I prefer...must admit I'm an old windows guy who liked the DE familiarity that KDE gave me back in 2004 |
20:09.33 | Xenguy | I suppose "busy" is a vague term really. What I mean is, I don't like countless configuration options, and that was my experience of KDE, when I played with it. Other than that, it seems like a very competent DE |
20:09.39 | sirix | good morning folks |
20:09.54 | Xenguy | o/ |
20:16.33 | MinceR | it used to be very competent |
20:16.37 | MinceR | then 4.0 happened |
20:17.38 | Xenguy | Sounds analagous to Gnome3 ? |
20:19.26 | MinceR | yeah |
20:19.32 | MinceR | somewhat |
20:19.39 | MinceR | except gnome2 already sucked |
20:20.40 | Xenguy | heh, I liked G2, which is why I chose MATE when I first installed Devuan |
20:22.31 | BluesKaj | hmm, missing GTK settings in system settings>application appearance...there's fix tho iirc |
20:31.33 | BluesKaj | ok kde-config-gtk-style app was in the repos , .puurfect for FF and chrome |
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20:51.57 | MinceR | gnome1 was a lot better |
20:52.03 | MinceR | it was a copy of kde with extra features |
20:52.13 | MinceR | gnome2 was a copy of macos, including the braindead apple HIG |
20:52.28 | Xenguy | What's HIG? |
20:52.31 | MinceR | "look how cool we are, we can randomize the order of buttons in your dialog boxes!" |
20:52.34 | MinceR | human interface guidelines |
20:52.54 | buZz | oooo we have those books |
20:52.57 | buZz | the apple ones |
20:53.27 | Xenguy | huh, well AFAIK MATE is base on Gnome version 2, and if so, that's what I like :) |
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20:53.52 | buZz | its a fork yeah |
20:54.05 | buZz | not based-on :P (as in, a copy, not inspiration) |
20:54.57 | Xenguy | I'm gonna have to go ahead and assert that fork implies based upon ;) |
20:55.09 | buZz | fork means direct copy |
20:55.17 | Xenguy | Yes |
20:55.19 | buZz | to continue development on |
20:55.24 | Xenguy | Yes |
20:55.27 | buZz | Yes |
20:55.28 | buZz | :) |
20:55.43 | Xenguy | We're splitting hairs here IMO, but fine, I don't disagree |
20:55.57 | BluesKaj | avoids semantic debates |
20:56.01 | buZz | <3 |
20:56.11 | Xenguy | 8D |
20:56.16 | buZz | i never saw a need for a desktop manager, opposed to a window manager |
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20:56.48 | buZz | s/manager/environment/ i guess ;) |
20:57.32 | Xenguy | I've used lots of WM, and the only advantage of a DE is certain more advanced features, at the cost of more bloat |
20:57.47 | Xenguy | I'd actually like to try a tiling WM sometime, like i3 |
20:58.17 | buZz | i tried ion1 back in the day, but i just like throwing windows around too much |
20:58.38 | buZz | if i want a fullscreen terminal i just do alt-f1 alt-f11 |
21:00.15 | Xenguy | Time to run some errands, while the sun still shines |
21:00.22 | Xenguy | have fun |
21:02.07 | BluesKaj | hmm, looking for a repos/source that has the nvidia-340 driver for my 8400GS |
21:03.04 | BluesKaj | it's a legacy card now , but it still works on debian-jessie |
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21:17.52 | buZz | hm |
21:19.10 | buZz | https://github.com/dderby/debian900 oooo |
21:19.15 | buZz | > DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of Devuan or Debian GNU/Linux on the Nokia N900 |
21:19.18 | buZz | :) |
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21:27.19 | BluesKaj | ok found nvidia-detect, and installed dkms (surprised it's not default) then the 340 driver and nvidia-xconfig |
21:27.49 | BluesKaj | stuff to do ...BBL |
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21:37.14 | BluesKaj | had to add contrib non-free to jessie main(s) in sources.list |
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