| 00:00.06 | Lydia_K | Maybe he's at a high altitude? |
| 00:00.37 | Centurion_Dan | Lydia_K: And they still expect reproducible results?? |
| 00:00.38 | Lydia_K | The thicker the atmosphere above you the less of the sinister space rays that will get to your memory. |
| 00:00.42 | Digit | maybe i should keep my potassium supplements further away from my computer. :3 |
| 00:01.26 | Centurion_Dan | radioactive potassium?? You wanting to glow in the dark? :-P |
| 00:02.16 | Digit | only very slightly. |
| 00:02.41 | Lydia_K | This could also explain the complaints of some results being like a tenth of an inch off.. |
| 00:03.11 | Centurion_Dan | Lydia_K: there are tools for checking ECC and they'll tell you if your ram is ecc |
| 00:03.15 | Lydia_K | (This is for flooding across an entire county, so not a lot in aggregate) |
| 00:03.17 | underd0g | hey guys |
| 00:03.25 | Lydia_K | I'm on a train on my phone right now |
| 00:03.38 | underd0g | anyone ever installed devuan with encrypted /boot |
| 00:03.40 | underd0g | ? |
| 00:04.20 | Centurion_Dan | Lydia_K: that's probably just a rounding error coming from the shitty floating point implementations. |
| 00:04.56 | Lydia_K | That's kinda what I was thinking |
| 00:05.16 | Lydia_K | Also, scientists write terrible code |
| 00:06.07 | Lydia_K | So ya'know, probably something with their csh scripts that generate csh scripts that generate csh scripts that run calculations. |
| 00:06.38 | Lydia_K | It's a goddam horror show in there sometimes. |
| 00:07.06 | Lydia_K | I trust nothing |
| 00:07.37 | Centurion_Dan | You need to come to multicore-world in Feb to hear John Gustafson speak. He's proven that floating point is ummm unreliable... |
| 00:07.57 | Lydia_K | Mmm... how much does it cost? |
| 00:08.10 | Lydia_K | I could run it past the higher ups |
| 00:08.26 | Lydia_K | I doubt they'll pay, but I'd love to go. |
| 00:08.45 | Centurion_Dan | https://openparallel.com/multicore-world-2017/tickets-2017/ |
| 00:08.54 | Lydia_K | I think an 800 core grid engine cluster is in the small side for you guys. |
| 00:08.56 | koollman | Centurion_Dan: it needed proving ? |
| 00:08.57 | *** join/#devuan dog_ (~underd0g@93.140.31.194) |
| 00:12.12 | Centurion_Dan | Lydia_K: the line up of speakers might be of interest.. https://openparallel.com/multicore-world-2017/ |
| 00:13.21 | Centurion_Dan | koollman: He's proposed an alternative system that solves the problem... |
| 00:13.26 | *** join/#devuan zdzichu (~zdzichu@pipebreaker.pl) |
| 00:13.32 | Lydia_K | Wow, awesome |
| 00:13.45 | Lydia_K | I feel like so many of my questions are super basic |
| 00:14.45 | Lydia_K | Like "why do my scientists write so much code that wastes more time in cpu system than doing actual work in cpu user?" |
| 00:17.49 | Centurion_Dan | I've been the last couple of years doing AV stuff at MCW and that sort of question gets beaten around quite a bit.. |
| 00:18.39 | *** join/#devuan mystified (~mystified@110-174-9-2.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:19.17 | *** join/#devuan coagen (~coagen@unaffiliated/coagen) |
| 00:19.22 | koollman | Lydia_K: I know part of the answer for that. They usually have no idea of the costs of various real world operations |
| 00:19.42 | Lydia_K | Hahaha, you have an answer? Cause sometimes I look at my grafana graphs and just want to start sobbing at my desk. |
| 00:20.01 | Lydia_K | Soooo much time spent shuffling memory segments |
| 00:20.43 | Lydia_K | Good lord addition!? No time for that! I have to move these bits from here and back again! |
| 00:20.55 | Lydia_K | *from here to there and back again |
| 00:21.04 | Lydia_K | Sorry, on my phone |
| 00:21.09 | Centurion_Dan | It's a pretty interactive conference allowing lots of times for questions and networking to foster the neccessary collaboration required to improve those sorts of issues. |
| 00:22.16 | koollman | Lydia_K: if they take any kind of interest in the computation costs, most of the theoritical knowledge that is commonly taught is centered on optimizing for number of abstract operations (typically, compare, for sorting) |
| 00:22.21 | Lydia_K | I'm really going to push that our research department hires one real professional programmer to help them with their code |
| 00:22.49 | Lydia_K | It would go so far too just have one guy going "oh god no, I'll fix that. " |
| 00:23.39 | Lydia_K | You make a great point koollman |
| 00:23.40 | koollman | Lydia_K: it's a bit harder (even thought it's being slightly more documented) to find anything good/easy to understand mentionning memory latency, numa, syscall, and the overhead of various operations |
| 00:23.55 | Lydia_K | Though many of them have little to no programming experience at all |
| 00:24.11 | koollman | I remember viewing a pretty good set of videos on optimisation ... |
| 00:24.26 | koollman | tries to remember ... brain is laggy |
| 00:26.54 | Centurion_Dan | koollman: re floating point unreliability, it would help significantly if dev's just ditched the vendor specific extensions as they are the source of most of the problem. |
| 00:27.03 | koollman | Lydia_K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ85Zqjbyls&list=PL1tk5lGm7zvQYfTorqFvsnw1X4__Tl83W anything in that playlist. (it's specific to cray xc32 and piz daint from cscsch ... but actually there are very good points on optimisations from high to very low PoV) |
| 00:27.13 | *** join/#devuan dog_ (~underd0g@93.140.31.194) |
| 00:27.56 | koollman | I'm trying to remember the exact video that was really nice ... |
| 00:27.59 | *** join/#devuan underd0g (~underd0g@93.140.31.194) |
| 00:28.00 | Lydia_K | I will totally watch that when I'm home |
| 00:28.08 | Lydia_K | The train is not a good place |
| 00:29.16 | koollman | hm. anything in that playlist too : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WLvlZj33Mo&list=PL1tk5lGm7zvS1a6yf3zLBF7ICkkO8PHcP&index=9 (base idea: for a good large scale computation, you need a good node-scale program. and every step you can optimize) |
| 00:30.47 | koollman | with a very good comparison of 'theoretically optimal' (a graph showing linear scaling of performance) with 'real life' (seems bound by a higher limit, not even logarithming). When shown on the same scale, the linear-scaling algorithm is way, way slower :) |
| 00:31.10 | koollman | (and there are not enough nodes to ever get the benefit) |
| 00:31.24 | Lydia_K | Haha. |
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| 00:31.37 | Lydia_K | I look forward to watching it. |
| 00:31.47 | *** join/#devuan AlexLikeRock (~AlexLikeR@unaffiliated/alexlikerock) |
| 00:31.54 | koollman | I also remember a paper on the falseness of O(1) memory model. |
| 00:31.59 | *** part/#devuan BurntNoodle (6c5198c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.81.152.198) |
| 00:32.18 | koollman | pretty simple, but still something you probably hit a lot in scientific computing |
| 00:32.23 | Lydia_K | I'm afraid it'll be way over the head of my scientists, but I'm sure as hell curious. |
| 00:33.07 | Lydia_K | I mean, I've got some good ones |
| 00:34.08 | koollman | Lydia_K: http://www.ilikebigbits.com/blog/2014/4/21/the-myth-of-ram-part-i |
| 00:34.09 | Lydia_K | But I've also got the type whom we've had a month long email thread with cause they seem to refuse to understand that a single threaded program won't run any faster if you give the VM eight more cores |
| 00:34.33 | Lydia_K | And he can't deny |
| 00:34.42 | Lydia_K | Those other brothers can deny. |
| 00:34.47 | Lydia_K | Ok I'm done. |
| 00:35.47 | koollman | Lydia_K: scientific method. go for empirical demonstration, two vm, 2 cores vs 16, same program, measure variations, ask for counter-proof ;) |
| 00:36.24 | Lydia_K | We tried! |
| 00:36.36 | Lydia_K | Oh god we tried *sobs* |
| 00:36.44 | Lydia_K | Just the lack of understanding. |
| 00:37.14 | Lydia_K | "But it runs faster on X's desktop!" |
| 00:37.31 | gci_admin | "Then use X's desktop." |
| 00:37.34 | gci_admin | :) |
| 00:37.39 | koollman | :) |
| 00:38.07 | Lydia_K | Yes, they have 3.5ghz desktop, the servers running the VMware infrastructure are only 2.7, if it's single threaded then higher click speed will be faster. |
| 00:38.18 | Lydia_K | *clock |
| 00:38.22 | Lydia_K | Sorry, phone |
| 00:38.38 | gci_admin | clicks faster so his work will get done ;) |
| 00:38.40 | koollman | Lydia_K: so they have part of a counter-proof. run the program pinned to 1, 2, 4 cores on X's desktop ? |
| 00:38.44 | koollman | :) |
| 00:39.43 | Lydia_K | You keep trying to use logic, they are impervious to logic. |
| 00:39.45 | koollman | Lydia_K: get your scientists to think about the problem in scientific terms (I know. they should already. But many consider computing ... lets say, arcane. not science) |
| 00:40.13 | gci_admin | Science vs Logic? :D |
| 00:41.09 | Lydia_K | Some of my scientists are great, don't get me wrong |
| 00:41.29 | Lydia_K | I love'm all |
| 00:42.13 | Lydia_K | But there are a few whom a swear have the incredible ability to respond to an email without ever reading it. |
| 00:42.25 | koollman | gci_admin: I've seen physicists, medical doctors, and many other 'scientists' act pretty much like dealing with computers was some kind of voodoo knowledge. (that, or they know better because they are good in their domain. sometimes it's worse) |
| 00:43.18 | koollman | so I tried regularly to go back to something close enough to their knowledge that they can see the error in their previous statements |
| 00:43.31 | gci_admin | Lydia_K, koollman, I understand. Some people are very good at understanding the minutia of their field of knowledge. Not so great at understanding CPU cores versus clock speed if it is outside their insular field. |
| 00:43.34 | koollman | not that it always work. but at least some of them get it. |
| 00:44.01 | Lydia_K | It's hard sometimes, and you are totally right koollman |
| 00:44.48 | Lydia_K | I'm sure these guys are brilliant at flood modeling or earthquake analysis, or whatever their specialty is |
| 00:45.11 | *** join/#devuan xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 00:45.13 | Lydia_K | But good damn can it be frustrating answering the same question repeated 20 times. |
| 00:45.16 | koollman | gci_admin: it's not just understanding the details. it's understanding that it still follows rather similar laws |
| 00:46.25 | Lydia_K | YES |
| 00:46.34 | Lydia_K | some of them don't get that |
| 00:46.35 | koollman | it's like ... I don't know. A mathematician that is really great at game theory and statistics, but maintains that if he plays his dog's birthday on a lottery he will win money |
| 00:46.52 | Lydia_K | Perfect analogy |
| 00:46.59 | koollman | (err, probabilities, not stats. but you get it) |
| 00:47.14 | Lydia_K | And that's why it's so frustrating from the outside perspective |
| 00:47.16 | koollman | so you know he could understand ... but he won't. |
| 00:47.43 | *** join/#devuan xes__ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 00:47.48 | Lydia_K | I know they are experts in this type of thinking, yet they seem to stubbornly refuse to apply it to the thing I'm trying to explain. |
| 00:51.18 | Lydia_K | You must work with scientist koollman |
| 00:51.20 | *** join/#devuan zdzichu (~zdzichu@pipebreaker.pl) |
| 00:52.16 | koollman | Lydia_K: I did. still do sometimes. I know the pain :) |
| 00:52.30 | Lydia_K | :D |
| 00:52.58 | Lydia_K | I mean, I do love them, they are great, but they are also so frustrating some times. |
| 00:53.01 | *** join/#devuan cyteen (~cyteen@250.208.93.209.dyn.plus.net) |
| 00:55.20 | koollman | a colleague worked with a biostatistician last week. translating ideas/constraints/filters to sql queries and spark programs. Rather painful to listen to ... but maybe the data will be useful some day |
| 00:55.41 | *** join/#devuan Digit (~user@fsf/member/digit) |
| 00:57.21 | Lydia_K | I'm sure it will :) |
| 00:57.34 | koollman | now, to be fair, most developpers I know have no idea of the cost of their own programs, too. And they also do not know much about science :) |
| 00:57.42 | Digit | well. i extracted the data from the .deb, copied the offending file to where it should be, and it fixed it, for a second, then everything went bank n unresponsive. seems ok now after that forced reboot. :3 lets see what other mistreatment this can survive. :) |
| 00:58.18 | Lydia_K | Wow, neat! |
| 00:58.39 | Lydia_K | Koollman: LOL! |
| 00:58.56 | Lydia_K | Ok, at my train stop, time to drive home, catch you all later |
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| 01:12.55 | Xenguy | underd0g: I picked the LVM encrypted volume option during install, if that is what you mean. |
| 01:14.12 | *** join/#devuan alk` (~alk@93-44-86-43.ip96.fastwebnet.it) |
| 01:14.13 | underd0g | yeah |
| 01:14.21 | Xenguy | Why do you ask? |
| 01:14.25 | underd0g | but your /boot is unencrypted |
| 01:14.58 | underd0g | but I am playing with this atm ; http://dustymabe.com/2015/07/06/encrypting-more-boot-joins-the-party/ |
| 01:15.12 | Xenguy | Could be, I don't really know how it works to be honest |
| 01:15.16 | underd0g | I run LMDE now |
| 01:15.23 | underd0g | there's a script |
| 01:15.33 | Xenguy | LXDE, or LMDE? |
| 01:15.42 | underd0g | mint debian edition |
| 01:15.50 | Xenguy | aha, right |
| 01:16.02 | underd0g | so , it's all fine |
| 01:16.08 | underd0g | but it's debian |
| 01:16.43 | Xenguy | I ran debian for many years, but I will likely be migrating my last debian box to devuan before too long |
| 01:16.55 | underd0g | every time I click "update" , I wonder what next piece of red hat crap will I get installed this time |
| 01:17.39 | underd0g | today I ran apt-get remove systemd* on my test box , just to see what happens |
| 01:17.50 | underd0g | and guess what ? |
| 01:18.42 | Xenguy | do tell |
| 01:19.11 | underd0g | everything gets uninstalled :D |
| 01:19.22 | Xenguy | heh, sounds about right |
| 01:19.45 | underd0g | they can stop pretending it's debian |
| 01:19.59 | underd0g | and just call it red hat |
| 01:20.09 | Xenguy | It's still Debian, but Debian failed (IMHO) |
| 01:20.27 | underd0g | it's just red hat with debian logo |
| 01:20.44 | Xenguy | I get your point |
| 01:20.45 | underd0g | if you try to remove gnome or systemd , you can't run it |
| 01:20.46 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@68-184-46-18.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 01:21.08 | underd0g | so I'll be moving to devuan , really fast |
| 01:21.41 | Xenguy | I only have it installed on my main laptop, and so far it has worked quite nicely, with no problems |
| 01:22.21 | underd0g | hey fsmithred |
| 01:22.28 | fsmithred | hi |
| 01:22.44 | underd0g | I've tried your live iso |
| 01:22.48 | underd0g | works fine |
| 01:22.53 | fsmithred | good |
| 01:23.06 | fsmithred | which live iso |
| 01:23.07 | underd0g | tried upgrading LMDE to devuan |
| 01:23.11 | underd0g | i386 |
| 01:23.14 | fsmithred | I have about half a dozen scattered around |
| 01:23.25 | fsmithred | refracta or unofficial devuan live? |
| 01:23.34 | underd0g | refracta |
| 01:23.52 | underd0g | devuan live is made with live scripts ? |
| 01:24.03 | underd0g | it has the installer ? |
| 01:24.36 | fsmithred | devuan isos are not live |
| 01:24.48 | underd0g | I know |
| 01:24.48 | fsmithred | I made a live iso from a devuan install using refractasnapshot |
| 01:24.58 | fsmithred | and it has refractainstaller in it |
| 01:25.07 | fsmithred | just the cli versions of the tools |
| 01:25.16 | underd0g | so only refracta , no livescripts :( |
| 01:25.28 | fsmithred | what do you mean? |
| 01:26.09 | golinux | http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/docs/readme.refractasnapshot.txt |
| 01:26.28 | underd0g | I know how refracta works |
| 01:26.48 | golinux | Then I didn;t understand you question |
| 01:27.12 | fsmithred | what are you saying has no livescripts? |
| 01:27.13 | golinux | Devuan does not have an official live iso available. |
| 01:28.12 | underd0g | there was a set of scripts trough wich you could create a live cd |
| 01:28.23 | fsmithred | refractasnapshot |
| 01:28.28 | fsmithred | run it from root terminal |
| 01:28.37 | underd0g | I know |
| 01:28.47 | fsmithred | what scripts are you talking about? |
| 01:29.48 | underd0g | can't find the right term to google |
| 01:29.57 | underd0g | nevermind |
| 01:29.57 | fsmithred | where were these scripts? |
| 01:30.01 | fsmithred | in lmde? |
| 01:30.05 | underd0g | nope |
| 01:30.19 | underd0g | refracta is one way of making it |
| 01:30.27 | fsmithred | remastersys? |
| 01:30.32 | underd0g | how do debian guys build live cd's ? |
| 01:30.38 | fsmithred | live-build |
| 01:31.07 | fsmithred | and live-build uses live-boot and live-config (among other things) |
| 01:31.19 | fsmithred | refractasnapshot also uses live-boot and live-config, but not live-build |
| 01:31.31 | underd0g | live-build scrypts |
| 01:31.34 | underd0g | scripts |
| 01:31.42 | fsmithred | they still exist |
| 01:31.46 | underd0g | I know I've read that |
| 01:31.48 | fsmithred | in the repo |
| 01:32.12 | underd0g | so basically , devuan live with installer could be made with those ? |
| 01:32.21 | fsmithred | in theory |
| 01:32.36 | fsmithred | someone was working on it, but I haven't heard an update lately |
| 01:33.08 | *** join/#devuan zone_twelve (~eshafer@2602:30a:2cf9:4710:e60:76ff:fe69:2c5) |
| 01:33.09 | *** join/#devuan zone_twelve (~eshafer@unaffiliated/zone-twelve/x-8788851) |
| 01:33.13 | fsmithred | I think there were some problems getting it to work |
| 01:33.19 | underd0g | anyways , I came up with a new idea how to get my devuan have encrypted /boot |
| 01:33.34 | fsmithred | how? |
| 01:33.49 | underd0g | check out http://dustymabe.com/2015/07/06/encrypting-more-boot-joins-the-party/ |
| 01:34.23 | underd0g | so , I'll install boot on USB drive , and later move it back onto HDD |
| 01:34.33 | underd0g | should work |
| 01:35.07 | underd0g | the idea I had about upgrading LMDE to devuan didn't pan out too well |
| 01:35.29 | underd0g | it's doable , but much pain in the ass |
| 01:37.21 | fsmithred | that doesn't surprise me |
| 01:37.33 | fsmithred | the encrypted boot thing is pretty cool |
| 01:37.40 | underd0g | it is |
| 01:37.41 | fsmithred | not really that difficult to do |
| 01:37.54 | underd0g | exactly |
| 01:38.13 | underd0g | that's why I wonder why it isn't in the installer yet |
| 01:38.34 | underd0g | it's been out there for quite some time now |
| 01:38.41 | fsmithred | any idea if this works with uefi? |
| 01:38.51 | underd0g | should |
| 01:38.57 | fsmithred | can the efi partition be encrypted? I'm guessing it can't. |
| 01:39.16 | underd0g | I've seen refferences to it in that LMDE script I linked to you |
| 01:39.29 | fsmithred | pretty sure you could do this with refractainstaller |
| 01:39.39 | underd0g | efi itself ? doubt |
| 01:39.49 | fsmithred | no, not encrypt efi |
| 01:39.58 | underd0g | I know |
| 01:40.04 | fsmithred | there's an option to move partitions after they get copied to hard drive |
| 01:40.19 | fsmithred | was added on for someone who wanted a separate /var |
| 01:40.32 | fsmithred | oops |
| 01:40.36 | fsmithred | I got it backward |
| 01:40.41 | underd0g | yeah , but /boot ? |
| 01:40.54 | fsmithred | you use it to separate something out to its own partition, not the other way |
| 01:41.16 | fsmithred | you'd have to do it all manually, but there's a place in the middle of the install that pauses to let you work in another terminal |
| 01:42.04 | fsmithred | I don't know if this will get added - I'm still trying to figure out how to combine the uefi and bios installers |
| 01:43.23 | fsmithred | one of these days (weeks) I need to pull those scripts all apart and re-write them. |
| 01:43.29 | fsmithred | The code is a mess. |
| 01:44.58 | underd0g | huh |
| 01:45.02 | underd0g | much work |
| 01:45.34 | fsmithred | yeah, it needs to be reorganized. |
| 01:45.57 | fsmithred | changing anything in it is kinda like playing pick-up sticks |
| 01:46.06 | fsmithred | uh... |
| 01:46.09 | fsmithred | jenga? |
| 01:47.44 | fsmithred | what happens to the modified grub.cfg when grub gets updated? |
| 01:47.58 | fsmithred | does it lose the cryptodisk lines? |
| 01:49.08 | fsmithred | brb |
| 01:49.39 | underd0g | we'll find out soon enough , I'm in the middle of installation |
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| 02:40.40 | fsmithred | underd0g, how's it going? |
| 02:41.10 | underd0g | just about to finish installing |
| 02:41.28 | underd0g | I hope migrating boot won't take that long |
| 02:41.46 | underd0g | I am working on a VM , so it's pain in the ass |
| 02:41.56 | fsmithred | I understand |
| 02:42.06 | fsmithred | boot is not very big |
| 02:42.54 | underd0g | I am working with two usbs plugged into a VM on an ancient laptop |
| 02:43.04 | underd0g | not a bright fella I am |
| 02:43.23 | fsmithred | use what you got |
| 02:44.58 | fsmithred | oh, just a reminder, since you're concerned about security... |
| 02:45.17 | fsmithred | refracta has ssh server on by default |
| 02:45.19 | underd0g | my exe's brother peeked over my shoulder once , and he was , like ; I don't know what you're doing to that computer , but it looks like "inception" to me :D |
| 02:46.00 | underd0g | oh , don't worry , my OPSEC allows me to have really big security holes |
| 02:46.02 | fsmithred | if you're running linux, there must be something wrong with you |
| 02:46.25 | fsmithred | terrorist, pedophile, spammer or just generally subversive |
| 02:46.51 | underd0g | well, I am begining to look at the very posibility of switching to bsd |
| 02:47.26 | underd0g | I ain't taking this whole linux mess lightly |
| 02:48.11 | underd0g | if devuan fails , I'll switch to bsd |
| 02:49.13 | fsmithred | there's still gentoo |
| 02:49.16 | fsmithred | and antix |
| 02:49.19 | underd0g | man I fucked up again . I think . I think I told the installer to update from interwebz |
| 02:49.41 | fsmithred | why is that a problem? |
| 02:49.58 | underd0g | it will take ages . again . |
| 02:50.16 | underd0g | I'm just testing , I could've just skipped it |
| 02:50.44 | underd0g | gentoo guys are making us float |
| 02:50.47 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@x4e3610d6.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 02:50.52 | underd0g | but for how long ? |
| 02:51.52 | underd0g | what's next after eudev ? |
| 02:52.53 | golinux | vdev |
| 02:53.06 | underd0g | :D |
| 02:53.40 | underd0g | rotfl |
| 02:53.48 | *** part/#devuan catprints (~realperso@172.56.13.73) |
| 02:54.20 | underd0g | my question was , when do we lay down arms and let the one red hat rule us all ? |
| 02:54.27 | fsmithred | don't laugh. vdev works |
| 02:54.37 | fsmithred | mostly |
| 02:54.46 | underd0g | vdev is part of zfs , isn't it ? |
| 02:54.53 | fsmithred | different vdev |
| 02:55.09 | fsmithred | vdev is Jude Nelson's device manager to replace udev |
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| 02:55.59 | underd0g | it's an actor ? |
| 02:56.10 | fsmithred | huh? |
| 02:56.41 | underd0g | just poking you |
| 02:56.52 | underd0g | but I really didn't know about vdev |
| 02:57.09 | fsmithred | it's not ready for prime time, but basically, it works |
| 02:57.53 | fsmithred | translating udev rules to something that vdev can use is still new territory |
| 02:58.41 | fsmithred | and I think there's another one that someone was talking about on the mailing list |
| 02:58.50 | underd0g | I get it |
| 02:59.13 | underd0g | and then one day linus will put systemd into kernel , and then what ? |
| 02:59.23 | underd0g | we fork kernel ? |
| 02:59.26 | fsmithred | we'll see |
| 02:59.32 | fsmithred | I'm not so sure that will happen |
| 02:59.41 | underd0g | I am most certain |
| 02:59.57 | fsmithred | if he allows it, then it will have been fixed to be sane |
| 02:59.57 | underd0g | he's kinda fond of red hat , you know = |
| 03:00.38 | fsmithred | brb |
| 03:00.42 | underd0g | so what , if systemd is sane , we are all good with it ? |
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| 03:09.21 | underd0g | anyways , from what I've seen , vdev is abandoned |
| 03:09.23 | underd0g | so ... |
| 03:12.18 | fsmithred | not completely abandoned - there are two people working on packaging it, there are two sets of packages that work |
| 03:12.48 | fsmithred | it's linux - there are 10 ways to do everything, and the cream rises to the top |
| 03:13.10 | underd0g | man |
| 03:13.22 | underd0g | I had to give up on the install for today |
| 03:13.25 | fsmithred | btw, if you install from one of the live images, installation takes about 10 minutes |
| 03:13.59 | underd0g | as I said , it started pulling packages from repos instead from iso |
| 03:14.18 | fsmithred | pulling from repo is not an option with the live |
| 03:14.26 | underd0g | after more than a hour , it stated it is downloading 1000 packages :D |
| 03:15.00 | underd0g | but can I install with LVM from refracta ? you said I can't . |
| 03:15.05 | fsmithred | the official beta1 would only do netinstall |
| 03:15.08 | fsmithred | oh, no lvm |
| 03:15.18 | underd0g | so no crypto |
| 03:15.23 | fsmithred | yes crypto |
| 03:15.33 | fsmithred | cryptsetup/luks |
| 03:15.44 | fsmithred | without lvm |
| 03:16.02 | underd0g | but without lvm , i don't know if i can merge boot |
| 03:16.16 | underd0g | I'll give it a shot later |
| 03:16.47 | underd0g | I get up in two hours and it'll be a heluva day |
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| 03:20.21 | fsmithred | might need to change GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX= |
| 03:20.35 | fsmithred | but other than that, it looks like it would be the same |
| 03:21.02 | fsmithred | you doing a full desktop install? |
| 03:21.59 | underd0g | yes |
| 03:22.39 | fsmithred | you could just install standard system and add desktop later - would go quicker |
| 03:23.04 | underd0g | didn't even think of that |
| 03:23.46 | fsmithred | some people like to un-check everything at the tasksel screen, some like to keep standard system utils checked. |
| 03:23.55 | underd0g | ^protip |
| 03:24.06 | fsmithred | I'm in the latter group |
| 03:24.29 | fsmithred | I want every utility I've ever heard of to be available in case I need it |
| 03:24.35 | fsmithred | (old boy scout) |
| 03:25.04 | NewGnuGuy | fsmithred: Check all the things! |
| 03:25.11 | fsmithred | lol |
| 03:25.51 | fsmithred | wouldn't be the first time I had three or four desktops or window managers |
| 03:26.14 | underd0g | I go with the default setup on every distro |
| 03:26.33 | underd0g | long gone are the days of "i might need a web sever on my desktop" |
| 03:27.04 | underd0g | oh , look it has three different flavors of sql servers , why not have them all ? |
| 03:27.31 | fsmithred | well, I was thinking more like - I want ddrescue, smartmontools.. that kind of stuff |
| 03:27.41 | underd0g | and start it all at boot , with all the whistles and blows :D |
| 03:28.18 | underd0g | ah , srry , just reminded me of my first days with linux |
| 03:28.35 | fsmithred | windows refugee? |
| 03:28.54 | underd0g | I was going crazy cus I could not find root password for knoppix |
| 03:29.27 | NewGnuGuy | fsmithred: ddrescue recently saved my bacon. good stuff. |
| 03:29.34 | underd0g | so I wrote an angry mail to mr. knopper , who was kind enough to point me in the right direction |
| 03:30.01 | underd0g | the rest was history . |
| 03:31.58 | underd0g | nah , my first system was linux |
| 03:32.12 | fsmithred | wow, that's rare |
| 03:32.36 | underd0g | but my roommate made me overrun it with 98 |
| 03:32.44 | underd0g | so we could play ut |
| 03:34.06 | fsmithred | need to go feed the stove and finish laundry |
| 03:34.16 | fsmithred | good luck with the install |
| 03:34.34 | underd0g | c ya |
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| 05:54.46 | Centurion_Dan | underd0g: why? UT always ran better under linux... |
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| 07:04.07 | underd0g | I was a kid |
| 07:04.23 | underd0g | I supposed he knew better |
| 07:04.47 | underd0g | he knew shit , that's why he used 98 |
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| 07:32.57 | Centurion_Dan | I was always the guy running the game server, because my linux box was more reliable even though it wasn't as well resourced as most of the other 'doze machines. |
| 07:33.14 | Centurion_Dan | and I usually had a better FPS too. |
| 07:33.51 | underd0g | well running a server usualy gives you that :D |
| 07:34.14 | underd0g | ah FPS , srry I saw something else |
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| 07:45.11 | tuor | Hi, is there a goal when devuan should be a stable release or is it "ready when the work is done"? |
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| 08:04.05 | Centurion-Dan2 | tuor: real soon now... I hope ;-P |
| 08:14.04 | s-hell | Good morning! |
| 08:15.35 | s-hell | Our trainee "fixed" his apt config on his machine. He added the backports and the testing repository... without pinning something :-( |
| 08:16.11 | s-hell | So now we have a mix of packages between testing, backports and stable. |
| 08:17.13 | s-hell | I created preferences files for the pinning. https://paste.pcspinnt.de/view/5222ff5c |
| 08:17.35 | s-hell | So can anyone tell me an easy way to roll all packages back to stable?!? |
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| 08:23.14 | s-hell | ok, next great idea from our trainee: 'I have an idea!' |
| 08:23.25 | s-hell | Now he can do a fresh install :-D |
| 08:25.37 | tuor | Centurion-Dan2, ok :) |
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| 10:42.24 | PnUic | hi |
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| 13:28.56 | Venker | hi people |
| 13:33.42 | Venker | is Devuan Jessie about to be frozen soon? |
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| 13:47.15 | Venker | maybe I could move to ascii now |
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| 18:20.50 | hralm | hi |
| 18:21.09 | hralm | im about to install devuan on a mini pc with skylake oricessir |
| 18:21.17 | hralm | * processor |
| 18:21.41 | hralm | I will need some sort of modfication to run in it properly? |
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| 19:46.24 | Centurion_Dan | hralm: no idea, but we'd love to hear about it. |
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| 22:54.41 | Leander256 | the kernel in jessie is too old for a proper support of skylake GPU (the display will work, but poorly) |
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| 22:55.37 | Leander256 | I didn't know I could try the one from jessie-backports, so I switched my machines to testing |
| 22:58.03 | Leander256 | but that's all you need to use skylake on jessie |
| 23:06.56 | Centurion_Dan | hralm: based on Leander256's comment you should be fine to do it and just turn on backports support and upgrade to the latest backported kerne. |
| 23:07.02 | Centurion_Dan | *kernel. |
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| 23:14.34 | underd0g | sup guys |
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