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| 00:09.31 | underd0g | hey ppl |
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| 00:22.59 | Centurion_Dan | Fervi: upower relies on a long dead package that has been dropped from debian-stretch, and the alternative is systemd |
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| 00:24.05 | Fervi | ok, but virtual package should be created or something. Now (on Ascii) it isn't possible to install most of DE (only LXDE and e17 works) |
| 00:24.18 | Fervi | and probably WM also works :P |
| 00:25.49 | Centurion_Dan | we need a better solution to either replace upower or fix it so it works without the orphan package code. The new upower drops most hardware support and lets systemd handle it so it's a no go. |
| 00:27.10 | Centurion_Dan | I think this goes for all the utopia packages - udisks etc as well. |
| 00:27.13 | golinux | Tentacles everywhere and into everything. We could see it coming . . . |
| 00:27.56 | Fervi | Systemd is a virus, my VPN (OpenVZ) required that shit |
| 00:28.01 | Centurion_Dan | it ties into hwplug which harkens back to the days of hal |
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| 01:04.08 | Digit | i remember the hal wars. i was too young to really know what was going on, but i remember the grown ups talking about it a lot. heated discussions, door slamming, the look of concern at possible impending doom. it was timid by comparison to the init wars. |
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| 01:16.37 | underd0g | +1 digit :D |
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| 02:23.05 | Xenguy | One hopes devuan's task doesn't become too daunting, or risk not scaling up down the road |
| 02:31.27 | Centurion_Dan | hmm, the dead package iirc is pm-utils |
| 02:31.29 | gci_admin | Digit, if only it was just an "init war". But the current changes in Linuxland are much more than just init. |
| 02:32.03 | Digit | yep. i was gonna type systemd wars, but i just didnt wanna give them the advertising |
| 02:33.07 | gci_admin | Well, systemd was just the "camel's nose in the tent". ;) |
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| 03:34.07 | Digit | i think... what we need... is a ... whadya call em... video series, vlog? no... podcast? yeah. with charasmatic well-informed consientious presenters, round-table'ing with regulars and irregulars. get such issues out to the people, in an accessable and enjoyable format. or maybe it exists already and i just dont know about it yet? something like linux outlaws, but a bit more freedom & family friendly. |
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| 04:50.44 | Se7en | I have a suggestion for the production release |
| 04:50.50 | Se7en | Move from OpenSSL and instead use LibreSSL |
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| 04:52.18 | furrywolf | I think efforts right now are more aimed towards core and init software, not networking... we can always use more developers if you're volunteering. :) |
| 04:53.41 | Se7en | How exactly would I voulneteer to implement LibreSSL? |
| 04:54.18 | furrywolf | dunno. I have no idea what advantages it offers over openssl, or how to install it. heh |
| 04:55.42 | Se7en | furrywolf: libressl.org |
| 04:55.55 | Se7en | LibreSSL was originally forked during the HeartBleed fiasco |
| 04:56.16 | Se7en | It's goal is reliability, security, minimalism, and etc |
| 04:56.47 | furrywolf | I think Centurion_Dan is the expert on how to contribute, but I don't think he's around. |
| 04:57.21 | golinux | Se7en: No changes like that would be made in the upcoming RC. Maybe in ascii. Would help if someone volunteers to work on and maintain the pkg. |
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| 05:02.28 | Se7en | I don't think I'd be good to go there |
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| 07:59.54 | Centurion_Dan | Se7en: Is it abi compatible with openssl? |
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| 08:04.20 | Se7en | Centurion_Dan: it is a fork of OpenSSL |
| 08:04.33 | Se7en | With compatibility up to the previous version |
| 08:04.39 | Se7en | It's all detailed on their project page |
| 08:04.45 | Se7en | https://libressl.org |
| 08:07.20 | Se7en | Also why are you striving to be RMS_Approved(tm) yet are still using the true Linux kernel |
| 08:07.24 | Se7en | Instead of Linux-Libre |
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| 08:22.07 | Centurion_Dan | Se7en: The question is, how long can that ABI compatibility last. |
| 08:22.34 | Centurion_Dan | I like the looks of it though and the approach they've taken sounds good. |
| 08:25.57 | Se7en | Centurion_Dan: its goal is to eventually replace the bloated and broken OpenSSL |
| 08:26.02 | Se7en | And so far they're good on that |
| 08:26.15 | Se7en | Suckless has endorsed them and many distributions, including Void Linux, have replaced them |
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| 08:39.05 | Centurion_Dan | Se7en: Re: RMS_Approved(tm), we're not aiming for that actually. But we will either also provide a full RMS_Approved(tm) derivative or collaborate with someone doing that. We already have the developer of Gnuinos contributing to our efforts on Devuan and using our packages too. |
| 08:40.25 | Se7en | ok |
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| 10:29.43 | tuor | Hi, how can I install kde on devuan? |
| 10:31.52 | tuor | And a second question, how can I connect to wlan (I installed with the standard DE)? |
| 10:33.22 | djph | tuor: dunno about KDE (I never liked it myself) |
| 10:33.37 | djph | wireless .... what nic do you have? does the PC / OS see it? |
| 10:34.18 | tuor | djph, I don't even find the network settings... |
| 10:39.30 | tuor | I'm installing in a VM now, so I don't have so much hardware problems. I need to test it and find out if it's ok for productive user PCs. |
| 10:40.06 | tuor | I thought to install directly on a laptop, but forgot the hardware problems. |
| 10:48.22 | Centurion_Dan | tuor: wicd or network-manager needs to be installed. |
| 10:48.58 | Centurion_Dan | if you want to try network-manager you'll need to add the jessie-proposed repo as well |
| 10:49.05 | tuor | Centurion_Dan, ah ok. |
| 10:49.44 | tuor | thx. |
| 10:50.07 | Hestben | tuor: wicd should be installed by default |
| 10:50.14 | Centurion_Dan | if you use network-manager from jessie-proposed, I'd love some feedback on it. It works pretty well for me so far, but I'd like wider review |
| 10:50.40 | Centurion_Dan | Hestben: it's not because it never was a sufficient replacement for network-manager. |
| 10:51.27 | Hestben | Centurion_Dan: Ok, so that has changed the last month, then? I have an istallation from December where it was installed by default at least. |
| 10:51.30 | tuor | Hestben, isn't it started by default? Because I did not find any icon in the status bar. |
| 10:52.13 | Hestben | tuor: On my system, it starts by default at least |
| 10:52.22 | tuor | Hestben, I'll see. |
| 10:53.26 | tuor | Centurion_Dan, I'll test both and see. AFAIK wicd does not support multiple connections at the same time and VPN isn't supported to. But I'll test both. |
| 10:53.37 | Centurion_Dan | Hestben: hmmm, I've been getting plenty of reports that it wasn't. |
| 10:54.43 | Centurion_Dan | tuor: that's why I dug in and fixed network-manager, even though I wasn't a fan. Although I dislike wicd even more after a few months of using it. |
| 10:54.48 | Hestben | Centurion_Dan: Peculiar. So, then, no network manager is installed by default? |
| 10:55.06 | tuor | Centurion_Dan, Ah ok. |
| 10:55.30 | tuor | Yes for now, no network manager is installed by default, at least I could not find it. |
| 10:55.50 | tuor | I'll see, i'm just reinstalling it on a vm again |
| 10:56.03 | Centurion_Dan | Hestben: I'll have to look again at the tasksel package for it. |
| 10:56.44 | Hestben | My upgrade from debian on dec 18 installed wicd by default. |
| 10:58.44 | Hestben | It would be a very annoying thing for users to install Devuan on a laptop, then go somewhere where no threaded ethernet is available and find that you need a network manager to connect to a wifi-network, and not getting net to install it. |
| 10:59.04 | Hestben | an annoying moment 22 |
| 10:59.29 | Centurion_Dan | Hestben: indeed, it's on the list of fixes for RC |
| 11:00.16 | Centurion_Dan | if I get a bit more positive feedback on network-manager, I might push it into jessie next week. |
| 11:01.01 | Hestben | OK, I might just try to install the latest devuan image and see what is installed by default. |
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| 12:28.35 | fsmithred | Centurion-Dan2, is jessie-proposed down? I'm getting 'Not found' |
| 12:37.24 | fsmithred | nm, forgot to change 'merged' to 'devuan'. |
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| 14:05.50 | markizano | Did the splash page for login change ? |
| 14:05.59 | markizano | used to be bland green |
| 14:06.04 | markizano | now I have this strange design... |
| 14:07.14 | fsmithred | markizano, it should look the same as the bile-green except in purple. |
| 14:07.36 | markizano | hrmm... |
| 14:07.37 | fsmithred | and there should be some text below the login box that tells you what F1 does. |
| 14:07.43 | markizano | that makes me suspicious... |
| 14:07.57 | fsmithred | did it change after you did something? |
| 14:08.11 | markizano | apt-get update, but I can't tell if it's a hacker screwing with me, or a legit update :/ |
| 14:08.16 | markizano | I didn't trust the GDM login |
| 14:08.22 | markizano | so I used the getty login |
| 14:08.24 | fsmithred | gdm??? |
| 14:08.34 | markizano | gdm - lightdm ? |
| 14:08.39 | fsmithred | default is slim |
| 14:08.41 | markizano | the GUI login |
| 14:10.05 | fsmithred | I don't know what would happen with a regular update, because I've already screwed with the theme. |
| 14:10.34 | fsmithred | do you add jessie-proposed to sources.list? |
| 14:10.54 | fsmithred | That would give you themes that aren't in the main repo yet. |
| 14:11.22 | fsmithred | and there might be a problem with the themes |
| 14:11.41 | fsmithred | I meant 'did you' not 'do you' |
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| 14:35.56 | markizano | <fsmithred> do you add jessie-proposed to sources.list? <<< negative. |
| 14:36.01 | markizano | I have jessie and jessie-updates |
| 14:36.09 | markizano | haven't even enabled backports, since I haven't had a need for them yet |
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| 15:34.06 | tuor | Can I get KDE5 on Devuan? |
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| 15:46.22 | Digitteknohippie | tuor: i just did an apt search kde5, n got no results at least. so unless it's called something else in apt, or it's not immediately available, i presume from that. there may be other repositories to add to get it, or routes you can take outside of apt. |
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| 15:49.14 | tuor | Digitteknohippie, ok thx. |
| 15:52.02 | Humpelstilzchen | its just kde as only one version is packaged |
| 15:52.09 | Humpelstilzchen | tuor: see https://wiki.debian.org/KDE |
| 15:54.03 | tuor | Is there a Devuan testing? (newer KDE) |
| 15:54.32 | Humpelstilzchen | sure |
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| 16:09.10 | AlexLikeRock | good mornig GNUs |
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| 17:07.48 | Digitteknohippie | tuor: https://devuan.org/os/releases/ i have even ceres in my /etc/apt/sources.list. but as i think Humpelstilzchen is saying, yes, kde5 is there (as kde). i've not used kde since kde3.5, so am a bit unfamiliar. sorry for my misleading and ilinformed reply earlier. |
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| 17:31.07 | Digitteknohippie | i suggest Bongiovanni as the next release name after ascii. :) |
| 17:31.48 | golinux | Is that on the list of minor planets? |
| 17:32.00 | golinux | It's too long IMO |
| 17:32.08 | Digitteknohippie | yes. i just had a quick skim through. |
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| 17:33.42 | Digitteknohippie | if going for a short one, how about Bonk. or Born ? :) Born seems kinda fitting. like devuan is Born |
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| 17:35.36 | Digitteknohippie | "Bro". XD only 3 characters then. XD also Bruk. Buda. Bus. Burt. Byrd. just a few that stood out to me. |
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| 17:35.54 | Digitteknohippie | "Buddy" |
| 17:37.25 | Madda | What about Orcus ? |
| 17:38.03 | Digitteknohippie | as stated at the end of https://devuan.org/os/releases/ "After devuan jessie becomes old-stable, and ascii becomes the stable release, a new names starting with B will be chosen from the Minor Planet Center Names List." |
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| 18:21.21 | minnesotags | Looking forward for release names, there are many Debian packages (such as Ceph), which look at the version name file to tailor installation. I've had to fake that out using "Wheezy" at times to avoid improper install components. What is the strategy to deal with that? |
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| 18:53.53 | Digitteknohippie | :S my devuan's command line is giving me "apt-get: error while loading shared libraries: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: unexpected PLT reloc type 0x00" and same for whatever significant command (echo, cd, ls, etc still work), cant launch dmenu, new tmux panes. this has just started suddenly a few minutes ago. http://dpaste.com/0V5CR3V (trying to use the git.devuan.org but cant sign in, no confirmation email?). not sure how to |
| 18:53.53 | Digitteknohippie | proceed toward remedy here |
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| 19:33.59 | Digitteknohippie | nm. finally got that confirmation link to work. |
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| 21:15.00 | Centurion_Dan | Digitteknohippie: You could try rebooting. I'd suspect a sudden unexplained breakage like that to be either h/w failing or a malicious attack. |
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| 21:39.25 | Digit | i was wondering if there's some cache i can flush or something, before attempting fix by reboot. |
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| 21:42.41 | underd0g | sup |
| 21:42.45 | underd0g | anybody home |
| 21:49.09 | underd0g | I am trying to migrate from LMDE2 , I got some minor quirks , maybe someone might help me work this out |
| 21:50.57 | peetaur | Digit: I missed the problem descruption, but only kernel and hung kernel things should need rebooting to fix. |
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| 23:33.59 | Digit | most things wont run now, from my one usable remaining open terminal, besides inbuilt basic shell commands, everything else gives: "error while loading shared libraries: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6: unexpected PLT reloc type 0x0" ~~ so i wonder if i can cp my way out of this. lol |
| 23:38.29 | Lydia_K | Lol, that sounds really bad |
| 23:38.49 | Lydia_K | Just FYI, cp is not a shell builtin |
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| 23:38.57 | Lydia_K | Sooo.. good luck! |
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| 23:39.38 | Lydia_K | You can use: echo * |
| 23:39.47 | Lydia_K | To replace ls |
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| 23:40.59 | Digit | ^_^ ok, things arent as grim as i thought then. more n more things dont depend on this complaining libm.so.6 tbh, it's probably because of some kludge i've done in the past n forgotten was only meant as a stopgap. |
| 23:41.46 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 23:41.51 | Lydia_K | I've been there |
| 23:42.31 | Centurion_Dan | Digit: https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/attack_of_the_cosmic_rays1 |
| 23:44.01 | Centurion_Dan | you could have a random bitflip that broke it - the article tells how to force reloading things from disk |
| 23:45.38 | Digit | 32gb of ram, 8 errors per day, had that full ram set at least a year, round up to 500 days, ... that's 4000 errors in my ram, likely... :O |
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| 23:54.28 | Lydia_K | This is a really good article Centurion_Dan |
| 23:54.58 | Lydia_K | It makes me wonder about a few of the odd issues I've seen from my scientists recently. |
| 23:56.10 | Centurion_Dan | Lydia_K: presumably you run kit with ECC |
| 23:56.14 | Centurion_Dan | ?? |
| 23:56.48 | gci_admin | Lydia_K, tell your scientists not to put their computers in the particle accelerator! ;) |
| 23:58.25 | Lydia_K | I wish! |
| 23:59.53 | Centurion_Dan | Digit: that's a really high rate...... perhaps a gieger counter might be a good investment... |
| 23:59.54 | Lydia_K | I feel like our architect probably cheaped out on the ECC in order to put 768gig of ram per node |