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| 06:49.23 | hellekin | OMFG |
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| 10:16.16 | armin | hi. is there a package that contains the "loadkeys" program? |
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| 10:16.27 | armin | i already took a look with apt-file, but had no success. |
| 10:16.47 | armin | i've successfully been able to debootstrap a devuan installation on a VM, but loadkeys isn't there. |
| 10:21.56 | n4dir | armin: you want to set the keymap for tty ? |
| 10:22.30 | armin | yup |
| 10:22.50 | armin | also there is no Contents-amd64.gz file in http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/main/ - is that intended? |
| 10:23.03 | armin | also hi n4dir :) |
| 10:23.07 | n4dir | try dpkg-reconfigure console-data |
| 10:23.19 | armin | coolbeans |
| 10:23.24 | tox_ | armin: look at this page: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/122105/what-is-the-difference-between-console-data-console-setup-console-common-and-c |
| 10:24.56 | armin | n4dir: that lets me select a keymap from a list, but it has no effect, at all |
| 10:25.51 | n4dir | that's odd. try /etc/default/keyboard |
| 10:26.18 | armin | aha, after installing console-common i have such a loadkeys program |
| 10:26.42 | n4dir | i use refracta, and i sure no that i have problems, but forgot which ones (once tty keymap is set, i don't do it anymore, usually for months ...) |
| 10:27.15 | armin | note: i installed using debootstrap |
| 10:27.23 | armin | so there might be something missing, indeed |
| 10:27.32 | armin | brb food time :-) |
| 10:27.55 | armin | works nicely btw! |
| 10:27.57 | armin | ty! |
| 10:27.58 | armin | :) |
| 10:28.00 | n4dir | oh, cool |
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| 12:41.06 | jaromil | hi all, please see CVE-2016-5195 pretty bad Linux vuln for local privilege escalation. Devuan has patched kernel online already (from upstream Debian) so make sure you update/upgrade. have a nice day! |
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| 12:55.21 | djph | ew, seems only Debian / Devuan (of my boxen) have the update so far. Bad Ubuntu / Mint! |
| 12:56.14 | appleshampoo | the dirty cow fix? |
| 12:56.19 | djph | yup |
| 12:56.46 | appleshampoo | I'm surprised management at my jorb hasn't freaked out |
| 12:58.02 | jaromil | yep |
| 12:58.14 | jaromil | its indeed the dirty cow |
| 13:03.27 | nextime | all the devuan servers will be soon rebooted due to the kernel upgrade |
| 13:03.37 | nextime | i'm working to upgrade them |
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| 13:06.58 | jaromil | thx nextime |
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| 13:24.32 | Akuli | is that fixed in stable? |
| 13:26.07 | djph | there's a "stable" Devuan? |
| 13:26.19 | jaromil | yes and yes |
| 13:26.32 | djph | ooh |
| 13:26.50 | Akuli | updates |
| 13:27.04 | Akuli | awesome work! :) |
| 13:27.14 | djph | oh, right, Jessie ... still "beta" though, innit? |
| 13:27.21 | jaromil | yes |
| 13:27.26 | Akuli | indeed, "beta" with big quotation marks :) |
| 13:29.56 | Akuli | hmm my ubuntu 14.04 has a new kernel update... |
| 13:30.47 | Akuli | maybe they did fix it |
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| 13:58.15 | djph | Maybe I checked too soon |
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| 14:31.46 | Vall | Hello crazy people! ;-) |
| 14:32.41 | deanmean | hi |
| 14:32.44 | deanmean | ? |
| 14:33.49 | zdzichu | insulting participants isn't a great way to start conversation |
| 14:34.16 | Vall | zdzichu: I meant no insult. If insult was given, I apologize. |
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| 14:34.34 | golinux | deanmean: You made it here! |
| 14:35.16 | golinux | thinks zdzichu is just grumpy today |
| 14:35.18 | Vall | Is jsmithred on? |
| 14:35.36 | Vall | zdzichu: are you grumpy? ;-) |
| 14:35.39 | golinux | fsmithred probably is. ;) |
| 14:35.48 | Vall | oops |
| 14:36.16 | Vall | fat fingers ;-) |
| 14:36.26 | golinux | I've been trying to wake him up myself |
| 14:36.34 | Vall | fsmithred: are you on? |
| 14:36.55 | golinux | Vall: Nobody's got fatter fingers than me! |
| 14:37.07 | Vall | golinux: wanna bet? ;-) |
| 14:37.29 | Vall | I would like to congratulate him on Refracta, which I just learned about, and also learned about it's his doing. |
| 14:37.50 | Vall | And also ask a few questions on the remaster process. |
| 14:38.03 | golinux | Well thank deanmean because he's the one who started refracta years ago. |
| 14:38.32 | Vall | deanmean: congratulations, and thanks for Refracta. |
| 14:38.43 | golinux | Without him, there would likely be no refracta. |
| 14:38.46 | Vall | golinux: thanks for the heads-up |
| 14:39.20 | Vall | credit must be given where credit is deserved, and I think Refracta has life-changing potential for me |
| 14:39.28 | Vall | (seriously) |
| 14:40.03 | deanmean | i gave birth...but fsmithred raised it...so the kudos are all his... |
| 14:40.03 | golinux | For a lot of folks, I think. |
| 14:40.24 | Vall | deanmean: are you knowledgeable with the current Refracta (v8, right)? |
| 14:40.44 | Vall | deanmean: so you were the mother, and fsmithred the father? ;-) |
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| 14:41.25 | aitor | hi |
| 14:41.32 | golinux | There is history on FDN if you're interested. |
| 14:41.57 | jaromil | deanmean: hi :^) didn't knew you were also behind refracta, congratulations |
| 14:42.22 | deanmean | okay...umm...i was the sperm donor...and fsmithred the parent....better analogy...however gross.. |
| 14:42.23 | Vall | I'm already running Devuan in a production-level VM here, for almost 3 weeks, 24/7 and under heavy load, and it hasn't failed me yet. So I'm considering quitting my wait for a Devuan-based Linux Mint (which could never come) converting my desktops to Refracta too |
| 14:42.48 | jaromil | its a work of love |
| 14:42.54 | Vall | LOL deanmean ;-) why gross? ;-) |
| 14:43.06 | Vall | Love is beautiful, along with all its bodily fluids ;-) |
| 14:43.10 | golinux | jaromil: meandean is described as "professor emeritus and original creator of refracta" on the refracta site. |
| 14:43.11 | jaromil | agree |
| 14:44.30 | golinux | quips that delusion runs deep |
| 14:44.31 | deanmean | and grand poobah...dammit he didnt add that to the website |
| 14:44.32 | jaromil | speaking of which, I have to go deliver the bubbleclub living cultures |
| 14:44.40 | fsmithred | I'm back |
| 14:44.51 | golinux | FINALLY! |
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| 14:45.39 | Vall | welcome back fsmithred? |
| 14:45.46 | golinux | Now where is n4dir? |
| 14:45.57 | fsmithred | and dzz |
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| 14:46.07 | golinux | Of course. ;) |
| 14:46.08 | Vall | er, fsmithred! ;-) |
| 14:46.08 | fsmithred | wow |
| 14:46.11 | aitor | fsmithred (fredsmith): i'm packaging refractasnapshot and refractainstaller including the sources |
| 14:46.18 | jaromil | hi aitor ! |
| 14:46.23 | aitor | i'll include them in the repository of gnuinos |
| 14:46.27 | aitor | hi, jaromil |
| 14:46.28 | fsmithred | aitor, sources for bash? |
| 14:46.29 | zdzichu | Vall: yep, I'm grumpy today |
| 14:46.29 | Vall | fsmithred: congratulations on Refracta! |
| 14:46.34 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 14:46.39 | aitor | yes, nothing to build |
| 14:46.42 | Vall | Just heard about it, and that you are the parent ;-) |
| 14:47.03 | Vall | (with deanmean having donated the sperm, as per his own words ;-)) |
| 14:47.10 | djph | \o/ |
| 14:47.22 | aitor | i'll move the files from lib to usr/share/refractasnapshot/lib |
| 14:47.40 | fsmithred | huh? |
| 14:47.49 | Vall | fsmithred: LOL |
| 14:48.03 | fsmithred | why are you moving files, aitor? |
| 14:48.07 | Vall | <deanmean> okay...umm...i was the sperm donor...and fsmithred the parent....better analogy...however gross.. |
| 14:48.27 | Vall | When I asked about Refracta's paternity ;-) |
| 14:48.46 | Vall | Anyway, I'm already running Devuan in a production-level VM here, for almost 3 weeks, 24/7 and under heavy load, and it hasn't failed me yet. So I'm considering quitting my wait for a Devuan-based Linux Mint (which could never come) and converting my desktops to Refracta too |
| 14:49.02 | fsmithred | cool |
| 14:49.09 | aitor | i'm following the way to work of daniel baumann |
| 14:49.24 | Vall | And also stop using sysresccd for my recovery USBs/ISOs and start using Refracta |
| 14:49.44 | aitor | the bootloaders are in usr/share |
| 14:49.47 | n4dir | ... at least dean didn't mention that i had to swallow quite a bit of sperm ... |
| 14:49.50 | fsmithred | and if it doesn't have exactly what you want, you can make your own |
| 14:50.03 | Vall | n4dir: LOL! ;-) |
| 14:50.11 | Vall | fsmithred: exactly! |
| 14:50.14 | n4dir | :-) being the guineapig and all ... |
| 14:50.17 | fsmithred | aitor, can you send me a tree output? |
| 14:50.22 | Vall | fsmithred: this is actually my first question |
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| 14:50.35 | aitor | yes, tomorrow |
| 14:50.39 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 14:50.41 | aitor | see you :) |
| 14:50.46 | fsmithred | bye |
| 14:50.50 | aitor | bye |
| 14:51.14 | fsmithred | must be a long question |
| 14:51.17 | n4dir | Vall: it's not to be found in the menus, but there are lots of command line apps in refracta |
| 14:51.30 | deanmean | n4dir :) nobody forced you....well maybe a little... |
| 14:51.53 | Vall | fsmithred: I would like to install ZFSOnLinux in Refracta. Can it be done by live-booting then following these instructions, then remastering? https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/wiki/Debian |
| 14:52.03 | n4dir | :-) |
| 14:52.08 | Vall | LOL |
| 14:52.29 | Vall | folks, I think Devuan has the potential to be the best Linux *ever* |
| 14:52.34 | Vall | Seriously. |
| 14:53.53 | Vall | And this comes from someone who comes from a long Unix tradition, since early 80s with Bell Labs Unix v.7 on a PDP11 all the way to SLS Linux in 1992 or so, and then used RedHat distros almost exclusively until now |
| 14:55.03 | Vall | (passing through 8-bit Unix look-alike Cromix from Cromenco during mid 80s, to QNX, then Xenix, then Interactive System Corps Unix, then SunOS4, then Solaris, then 386BSD, etc etc etc) |
| 14:55.20 | Vall | And I do like both Devuan as a product and as a community |
| 14:56.28 | deanmean | its already the best... |
| 14:56.34 | fsmithred | Vall, I think you can do it with a refracta CD |
| 14:56.41 | Vall | So I'm really looking forward to using Devuan through the next 25 years or so (seriously ;-)) |
| 14:56.55 | Vall | fsmithred: OK. will try. Just wanted to check with you first. |
| 14:56.58 | fsmithred | their instruction end with a debootstrap install |
| 14:57.13 | fsmithred | so you'll get pure devuan, not refracta |
| 14:57.23 | Vall | Oh, OK. |
| 14:57.26 | Vall | Humrmrmr. |
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| 14:57.29 | deanmean | I suspect any distro not moving to systemd and stuff to be dead in 25 years...sadly... |
| 14:57.32 | fsmithred | you could try the refracta installer, if the partitions get mounted like normal partitions |
| 14:57.44 | fsmithred | e.g. /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2 ... |
| 14:57.48 | Vall | I'm not necessarily after a ZFS into initrd (ie, "root") installation |
| 14:57.49 | fsmithred | AND |
| 14:57.59 | n4dir | deanmean: i ain't got much hope neither. |
| 14:57.59 | fsmithred | you set the installer not to format the partitions |
| 14:58.18 | fsmithred | because it only knows ext |
| 14:58.40 | Vall | If I can just install the .debs and save a new ISO/Pendrive with it installed, I would be happy |
| 14:58.55 | Vall | I don't think ZFS is ready for prime-time "/" installing yet |
| 14:59.08 | fsmithred | yeah, I think you can do that without installing it to hard drive |
| 14:59.19 | fsmithred | boot live CD or USB |
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| 14:59.32 | fsmithred | apt-get update |
| 14:59.34 | Vall | So, installing the Debian ZFS debs and remastering a new ISO/USB would work, IYO? |
| 14:59.38 | fsmithred | install what you want |
| 14:59.44 | Vall | great |
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| 15:00.09 | fsmithred | then run refracta2usb and make a live usb |
| 15:00.16 | fsmithred | um, no |
| 15:00.19 | Vall | fsmithred: I also learned that Refracta done away with shitty PulseAudio and uses ALSA instead. Is this correct? |
| 15:00.20 | fsmithred | that won't work |
| 15:00.25 | muep_ | deanmean: I'd expect e.g. devuan to stay available and maintained as long as there is enough interest in keeping it functional. but no idea on what is a sufficient level of interest |
| 15:00.39 | fsmithred | I never did away with pulseaudio, because I never install it |
| 15:00.56 | fsmithred | I did try it once, and I couldn't figure out how to use it |
| 15:01.04 | Vall | I mean, did away when compared to Debian |
| 15:01.15 | Vall | fsmithred: PulseAudio sucks rocks |
| 15:01.15 | fsmithred | and everyone else |
| 15:01.25 | fsmithred | ok, lemme figure this out |
| 15:01.54 | Vall | To this day, even 10 years (or is it 15?) after first coming to light, this piece of shit routinely bombs in my desktops here. |
| 15:02.27 | deanmean | enough interest...and manpower....afraid there is no stopping "progress" in the long run... |
| 15:02.36 | fsmithred | boot live, install what you want, mount some storage space (hard drive or usb) and set that as the work_dir and snapshot_dir for refractasnapshot |
| 15:02.38 | Vall | So I do look forward to coming back to just plain ALSA, which I remember working jsut great back in the days |
| 15:02.40 | fsmithred | then make a new iso |
| 15:02.54 | Vall | fsmithred: OK. |
| 15:03.04 | fsmithred | refractasnapshot copies the running system |
| 15:03.05 | n4dir | slackware seems to come with pulseaudio. It has worked, but i didn't do anything with it. |
| 15:03.07 | zdzichu | 12 years |
| 15:03.23 | fsmithred | refracta2usb uses iso file or the filesystem.squashfs of the running system |
| 15:03.29 | Vall | Any links to easy tutorials on the " set that as the work_dir and snapshot_dir for refractasnapshot" part? |
| 15:03.32 | fsmithred | so it won't get any runtime changes you made |
| 15:03.47 | fsmithred | config file is heavily commented |
| 15:03.54 | Vall | OK |
| 15:04.00 | Vall | So I think I can do it. |
| 15:04.02 | fsmithred | and the readme that comes with it probably has some useful info |
| 15:04.17 | fsmithred | I can't remember what's where, but I like the config file to be explanatory |
| 15:04.23 | fsmithred | that's how I learned linux |
| 15:04.43 | muep_ | deanmean: likely at least a large subset of free software will keep targeting something like "POSIX + stuff that is available in common gnu/linuxes and bsds" |
| 15:04.44 | Vall | The worst part of moving from RH to Devuan IMHO will be unlearning everything I learned about making my own RPMs and start learning my own DEBs instead |
| 15:05.09 | fsmithred | yeah, and a lot of debian-specific commands |
| 15:05.23 | Vall | "rpm" as a program IMHO is much better designed than dpkg and the entire mob of deb-* programs |
| 15:05.30 | muep_ | Vall: I routinely deal with both, and so far rpms have been way easier to me |
| 15:05.51 | buZz | :) |
| 15:05.57 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@184-194-95-115.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 15:06.01 | buZz | trying https://talk.devuan.org/t/migrating-from-debian-to-a-minimalist-devuan/181 on a pocketchip |
| 15:06.06 | Vall | muep_: exactly. I tried learning to make DEBs 10 years or so ago, but it wasn't a pleasant experience |
| 15:06.33 | muep_ | imo, the management tools are equivalent-ish, but the tools for making packages differ greatly |
| 15:06.49 | Vall | nor a successful one, as at the time RH distros fit my needs well, and I saw no use moving to Debian |
| 15:07.32 | Vall | my beef with developing DEBs is that you have to learn, what, 10 or so different programs? And put a lot of stuff into a "./debian" subdir. |
| 15:07.44 | Vall | RPM is just a specfile and a single command (rpmbuild) |
| 15:08.09 | *** join/#devuan SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@541B7AAC.cm-5-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 15:08.10 | deanmean | That is a good point...muep_....may always be enough alternative effort out there to assemble something usable.... |
| 15:08.51 | Vall | Making DEBs seemed like ad-hoc hell to me... RPM always seemed like it was based on a single, solid, unified design. |
| 15:09.03 | Vall | Alas, RPMs are the main reason I stuck to RH all these years |
| 15:09.05 | n4dir | This is probably still a good how-to and a good thread when it comes to building packages: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=38976 |
| 15:09.20 | deanmean | just afraid it will get really old hacking around as more and more software relies on systemd or some other new cool thing... |
| 15:09.22 | Vall | Even through PulseAudio and other SNAFUs |
| 15:09.40 | Vall | But systemd is just a step too far. I won't have it in any circunstances. |
| 15:09.52 | Vall | Alas, make that a million steps too far :-) |
| 15:10.30 | muep_ | for me, it was (and still is to some extent) troublesome that a default debian/rules is basically empty with the catchall rule invoking dh_* commands when necessary. but it does not easily give me a view on what build stages I could or might want to modify |
| 15:10.32 | Vall | thanks for the link, n4dir |
| 15:10.46 | Vall | ditto fsmithred for all the tips |
| 15:10.51 | n4dir | No problem, Vall |
| 15:14.16 | n4dir | deanmean: on the one hand, sure: apps rely on systemd, it will make it difficult. on the other hand funtoo, a handful of people, even made gnome systemd free. iirc |
| 15:14.43 | n4dir | but i agree that what is mostly needed is apps which don't rely on systemd in the first place |
| 15:14.50 | n4dir | at least in the long run |
| 15:15.54 | *** join/#devuan Sigyn (sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn) |
| 15:15.54 | muep_ | at least currently, the number of applications interacting with systemd at all is small, and most of the ones that interact with it (like vlc or util-linux) have optional support that can be disabled |
| 15:15.58 | deanmean | and doing that for a year...fun...two years...okay....five years....aggravating....ten years...no way... :) |
| 15:16.15 | Vall | Alas, for the other VUAs here, I just stumbled upon this funny story: http://m.slashdot.org/story/317435 |
| 15:16.17 | deanmean | not my hope...just my fear |
| 15:16.31 | *** join/#devuan Scartozzo_ (~flavio@2-238-140-4.ip244.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:16.32 | Vall | I'm calling it "The Second Coming of Saint Dennis" ;-) |
| 15:16.52 | n4dir | muep_: might be. we will see. |
| 15:17.00 | buZz | muep_: what does vlc use systemd for? |
| 15:17.10 | n4dir | as far i see gentoo and BSD folks are still strongly against systemd |
| 15:17.19 | *** join/#devuan Scartozzo (~flavio@2-238-140-4.ip244.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:17.26 | muep_ | buZz: it can send its logs directly to journald when requested |
| 15:17.32 | buZz | lol |
| 15:17.33 | n4dir | well: and a couple of smaller communities, like dragora ... |
| 15:17.44 | buZz | 'couldnt play rawanalsexonaboat-omg.avi' |
| 15:17.51 | buZz | yeah totally need that logged :P |
| 15:17.55 | muep_ | buZz: it is a bit unusual for a desktop application to have such support, but it basically has also syslog support and some other backends |
| 15:18.25 | Vall | deanmean: perhaps we can start a crowdfund or something to pay for someone to work fulltime on maintaining Devuan? |
| 15:18.32 | buZz | well i'm not one to ignore 'because we can' reasons |
| 15:18.33 | muep_ | I guess vlc is sometimes used in server-like ways. it has quite a lot of features in addition to usual playback of files |
| 15:18.38 | buZz | but its pretty pushing it too far |
| 15:19.31 | muep_ | IIRC the VLC name also comes from the use case of receiving video streams directly over network |
| 15:19.51 | Vall | I for one would happily contribute $5 or so monthly to fund someone to work on Devuan full-time. |
| 15:20.29 | deanmean | not me...im poor |
| 15:20.32 | deanmean | :( |
| 15:20.51 | muep_ | would it be more efficient paypal-fee-wise to send in a bit larger sums with a similarly scaled longer interval? |
| 15:20.55 | buZz | Vall: buy a tshirt ;) |
| 15:20.57 | Vall | I really want Devuan to remain a viable alternative for the long term, no matter what happens in the rest of unix-land regarding systemd |
| 15:21.00 | nextime | Vall: did you want my patreon? :) |
| 15:21.11 | Vall | buZz: where? |
| 15:21.15 | buZz | 1mom |
| 15:21.22 | buZz | https://shop.spreadshirt.net/devuan <-- here |
| 15:21.39 | buZz | they are a bit uppriced, extra goes to fund dev / infra / etc |
| 15:21.49 | buZz | and! it helps to wear it , so more ppl get on the boat |
| 15:22.10 | Vall | nextime: well, are you working fulltime on maintaining Devuan? ;-) |
| 15:22.24 | Vall | BuZz: thanks for the link |
| 15:22.26 | Vall | checking it now |
| 15:22.28 | buZz | welcome \o/ |
| 15:22.36 | buZz | going apt-get dist-upgrade on a armhf platform :P |
| 15:22.38 | buZz | wish me luck |
| 15:23.01 | nextime | Vall: not fulltime as i can't yet, but yes, daily, i pay for 6 machines used by devuan, and i'm the author of amprolla |
| 15:23.04 | nextime | :) |
| 15:23.18 | nextime | buZz: if you can please wait |
| 15:23.26 | nextime | i'm rolling update machines cause of the kernel bug |
| 15:23.32 | Vall | nextime: please give me your patreon |
| 15:23.34 | nextime | and i hope to do that cleanly |
| 15:23.42 | nextime | but a little down on the repository is expected |
| 15:23.43 | buZz | nextime: the kernel wont be upgraded .. |
| 15:24.00 | nextime | buZz: : the server one i mean |
| 15:24.03 | buZz | oh |
| 15:24.11 | Vall | I'm not rich, but Devuan is a worthy cause, and an OS I would like to keep using for a long time |
| 15:24.27 | buZz | nextime: how long? this dl wont take >2 minutes i bet |
| 15:24.46 | nextime | buZz: it's a new patreon account, i was used to use other way to get donations ( namely paypal and bitcoin ) |
| 15:24.51 | Lydia_K | nextime: You have a patreon? |
| 15:24.52 | buZz | ? |
| 15:24.56 | nextime | anyway here it is: https://www.patreon.com/nextime |
| 15:25.11 | nextime | Lydia_K: i'm trying it, just opened a couple of days ago |
| 15:25.57 | *** join/#devuan JohnnyRun (~gianni@net94-124-67-2.static.bb.mainsoft.it) |
| 15:26.02 | buZz | almost done already ;) |
| 15:26.06 | buZz | 95% |
| 15:26.12 | buZz | done, all fetched |
| 15:26.14 | buZz | ;) |
| 15:26.30 | deanmean | I just fear that regardless of money in ten years it will be too much aggravation to keep bothering... |
| 15:26.33 | nextime | i'm live migrating VMs from a node to another one |
| 15:26.40 | Lydia_K | nextime: Consider yourself getting some money from me :) |
| 15:26.40 | nextime | and then i will reboot the host |
| 15:26.43 | buZz | proxmox ? :) |
| 15:26.53 | nextime | but it's long time since last time i've done such big migration |
| 15:27.01 | nextime | so, maybe some VMs can go down |
| 15:27.06 | nextime | buZz: ganet |
| 15:27.09 | nextime | ganetI |
| 15:27.21 | nextime | Lydia_K: thanks |
| 15:28.02 | buZz | nextime: cute, but no LXC |
| 15:28.06 | nextime | the more i get from donation, the more i can stay on devuan, and it will be amazing to do that |
| 15:28.14 | nextime | buZz: i don't like lxc :) |
| 15:28.20 | buZz | its fast though :P |
| 15:28.26 | deanmean | and if you received nothing...none...would you stop working? |
| 15:28.30 | nextime | yes, but it isn't secure enough :) |
| 15:28.32 | buZz | we run about 50 vms at nurdspace.nl , most LXC |
| 15:28.41 | buZz | Errors were encountered while processing: systemd |
| 15:28.43 | buZz | :D |
| 15:28.56 | nextime | deanmean: no, if i receive nothing i can donate 2/3 hour per day in my spare time |
| 15:29.06 | nextime | if i receive more i can give more time to devuan :) |
| 15:29.31 | deanmean | how much for how much then? and any guarantee that in ten years you will still be willing to do so? |
| 15:29.47 | deanmean | just playing devils advocate...not being ugly...well..a little mean maybe |
| 15:29.53 | golinux | buZz: I recently discovered that current VLC doesn't play well with alsa. |
| 15:30.10 | buZz | golinux: 4.3 ? |
| 15:30.21 | buZz | we'll move back to OSS then :P |
| 15:30.22 | buZz | lol |
| 15:30.55 | golinux | Weatherwax |
| 15:31.00 | nextime | deanmean: i don't know how mutch for how much, it's just if i can sobstitute something coming from my job with something coming from community, i will have more time, easy as is |
| 15:31.02 | buZz | no clue what that is |
| 15:31.13 | golinux | Videos using alsa output were stuttering badly. It has been a known issue for years and still not fixed it seems. I spent quite some time trying to fix it. Finally nuked the current "Weatherwax" version and installed "Two Flowers" from wheezy dmo repos. All is well now. Pisses me off that VLC was telling folks to use pulseaudio to fix the problem |
| 15:31.20 | nextime | and yes, you can bet in ten years, if i will be alive of coursem i will be on devuan. |
| 15:31.42 | nextime | the only exception to that are: |
| 15:31.46 | golinux | https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/10422 |
| 15:31.49 | nextime | 1- i die |
| 15:32.11 | nextime | 2- debian abandon systemd amd and devuan merge with it |
| 15:32.12 | nextime | :) |
| 15:32.27 | golinux | 3. E-bomb |
| 15:32.34 | deanmean | do you have a wife and kids? |
| 15:32.44 | nextime | deanmean: yes, yes |
| 15:33.41 | deanmean | and life doesnt ever throw you curveballs that take enough of your time that you cannot swear that you can dedicate X amount to naything in particular? |
| 15:34.19 | nextime | deanmean: i'm an old geek guy. I found my balance in life already |
| 15:34.28 | deanmean | good on ya tho...keep up the work....hope it all works out for the best... |
| 15:34.40 | golinux | nextime: You are hardly 'old' |
| 15:35.03 | nextime | golinux: as for IT timing, yes, i am :) |
| 15:35.12 | nextime | 30 years in it are enough to say that |
| 15:35.14 | buZz | you're 50? |
| 15:35.16 | Lydia_K | How old nextime? |
| 15:35.23 | nextime | 41 |
| 15:35.30 | buZz | ah, barely older than me ;) |
| 15:35.31 | golinux | Baby! |
| 15:35.33 | buZz | just more strings |
| 15:35.42 | nextime | and my first professional paid code was written when i was 11 |
| 15:35.43 | nextime | :) |
| 15:35.45 | Lydia_K | I love this channel, it makes me feel so young! |
| 15:35.51 | buZz | welp, seems this dist-upgrade destroyed this install, boo |
| 15:35.52 | buZz | :P |
| 15:35.59 | buZz | \o/ redo |
| 15:36.09 | Lydia_K | Wow, nice, you beat me nextime, I started volunteering when I was 14 to get experience, had a full time job by the time I was 16. |
| 15:36.29 | golinux | Prodigies |
| 15:36.30 | buZz | i was sysadmin at my highschool from 13 till 17 |
| 15:36.37 | nextime | Lydia_K: well, it was a summer job :) |
| 15:36.43 | Lydia_K | Still beat me :) |
| 15:36.44 | buZz | all the kids that could break the 'high tech security' were |
| 15:36.45 | buZz | :P |
| 15:37.03 | Lydia_K | It was just crappy windows help desk for a community college |
| 15:37.12 | Lydia_K | But by then I could write perl scripts and php and such. |
| 15:37.17 | golinux | I only got my first computer @Y2K. I was already in my 60s |
| 15:37.26 | deanmean | shit I am older than that and I get a daily minor curveball....with major ones thrown in monthly just to keep me on my toes... |
| 15:37.26 | nextime | never used windows except for 3.11 a couple of months |
| 15:37.34 | Vall | back |
| 15:37.36 | buZz | we had a novell netware install , and win3.0 computers with mosaic |
| 15:37.37 | buZz | :P |
| 15:37.46 | buZz | it was a blast |
| 15:37.50 | Vall | nextime, just pledged for you on Patreon. |
| 15:37.51 | Lydia_K | Wow, that's pretty amazing golinux, not many people start late and go so far with it. |
| 15:38.04 | Vall | I believe in putting money where my mouth is |
| 15:38.08 | nextime | Vall: thanks, i really appreciate that |
| 15:38.28 | Vall | nextime: you are more than welcome. And thank *you* for your work on Devuan. |
| 15:38.34 | nextime | golinux: so, for IT you are pretty young :) |
| 15:38.44 | buZz | ghe |
| 15:38.50 | buZz | 78 is young? :P |
| 15:38.57 | buZz | (guesstimate) |
| 15:39.04 | golinux | I guess. Only 10 years on Linux. |
| 15:39.04 | nextime | buZz: 78 isn't, but 16 is :) |
| 15:39.15 | Vall | buZz: youth is a state of mind, not of body ;-) |
| 15:39.19 | buZz | ^_^ |
| 15:39.23 | golinux | Exactly |
| 15:39.25 | buZz | well i must be a embryo then |
| 15:39.26 | buZz | :P |
| 15:39.31 | nextime | he is differently old |
| 15:39.35 | nextime | or differently young |
| 15:39.36 | nextime | :D |
| 15:39.38 | deanmean | thank god....cause my body screas 120 |
| 15:39.41 | deanmean | screams |
| 15:39.42 | Vall | nextime: seriously, I think you should advertise your Patreon more. |
| 15:39.52 | buZz | my body screams for coffee, bbl |
| 15:40.03 | Vall | Or Devuan itself start a Patreon where the proceeds are shared among those working on it. |
| 15:40.11 | nextime | Vall: i probably will, i've just opened it and i'm just testing/discovering how it works |
| 15:40.32 | nextime | i was used to just put my paypal and a bitcoin address on my projects |
| 15:40.39 | Vall | OK |
| 15:40.41 | nextime | but patreon seems a good way |
| 15:41.53 | Vall | I donated to Devuan when the project started, June last year |
| 15:42.32 | buZz | i think i donated some btc early on |
| 15:42.47 | buZz | back when jaro first started talking about it |
| 15:42.55 | Lydia_K | I like the patreon model, the regular income seems to be the way to go |
| 15:43.07 | buZz | does patreon do btc yet? |
| 15:43.14 | Lydia_K | get enough people giving a small amount and you have something substantial. |
| 15:43.18 | nextime | repository is migrating now |
| 15:43.23 | nextime | down for some minutes |
| 15:43.25 | Vall | Lydia_K: exactly |
| 15:43.26 | buZz | \o |
| 15:43.46 | nextime | Fri Oct 21 17:43:05 2016 Migrating instance packages.devuan.org |
| 15:43.51 | nextime | Fri Oct 21 17:43:07 2016 * changing disks into dual-master mode |
| 15:43.57 | nextime | Fri Oct 21 17:43:09 2016 * preparing gnt02.nexlab.thc to accept the instance |
| 15:43.58 | nextime | Fri Oct 21 17:43:09 2016 * migrating instance to gnt02.nexlab.thc |
| 15:43.58 | nextime | Fri Oct 21 17:43:09 2016 * starting memory transfer |
| 15:44.01 | AntoFox | hi at all |
| 15:44.13 | Vall | I think there's a large contingent of people who are (or could) benefit from Devuan and would be willing to support it financially in an outgoing basis. |
| 15:44.23 | Vall | *ongoing |
| 15:46.15 | buZz | hehe .thc |
| 15:46.16 | buZz | :) |
| 15:47.07 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 15:47.31 | AntoFox | domani LinuxDay Napoli, qualcuno ci va? |
| 15:47.37 | golinux | buZz: Your guesstimate was close but off by 4 years. ;) |
| 15:47.43 | buZz | :D good |
| 15:47.46 | buZz | i think |
| 15:47.49 | buZz | :) |
| 15:48.05 | buZz | just 37 |
| 15:48.20 | buZz | yet, still get carded nearly weekly buying alcohol and stuff |
| 15:48.28 | buZz | stuck in forever youth |
| 15:48.36 | golinux | Life is good here. :) |
| 15:48.40 | buZz | :) |
| 15:49.06 | buZz | ok, redoing this, -first- gonna attempt getting this debian install systemd free |
| 15:49.11 | buZz | -then- moving to devuan |
| 15:49.16 | buZz | maybe that goes better :P |
| 15:51.47 | Lydia_K | Why not a clean install? |
| 15:52.13 | buZz | Lydia_K: its a weirdass platform |
| 15:52.24 | buZz | https://getchip.com/ <--- |
| 15:53.37 | Lydia_K | Whoa, you are not kidding. |
| 15:53.41 | Lydia_K | Neato though! |
| 15:54.10 | buZz | it really feels like the manufacturer has nearly 1 year linux experience |
| 15:54.22 | buZz | 512MB system with >100 processes running from the box |
| 15:54.25 | buZz | such a waste :P |
| 15:54.32 | Lydia_K | Whoa |
| 15:55.01 | Lydia_K | Sounds like they just jammed a default install onto it with no thought to how the platform should be customized |
| 15:55.02 | muep_ | mind sharing output of ps -e -O rss,cmd --sort rss ? |
| 15:55.59 | buZz | ah 85 processes :P |
| 15:56.17 | buZz | and most just kernel |
| 15:56.19 | buZz | but , 1mom |
| 15:56.43 | buZz | http://pastebin.com/ejX4N08w |
| 15:58.32 | muep_ | it's quite many things, but at least currently it does not seem very RAM-intensive anyway |
| 15:58.55 | buZz | uhuh, well they had assistance from those 'free electron' guys |
| 15:59.23 | buZz | http://free-electrons.com/ <- these ppl |
| 15:59.46 | muep_ | this from their server is really handy http://lxr.free-electrons.com/ |
| 16:00.39 | buZz | yeah used that a lot :P |
| 16:03.33 | muep_ | hm, at least it does not seem like a stock minimal installation |
| 16:04.47 | *** join/#devuan premoboss (~utente@91.253.14.45) |
| 16:05.33 | buZz | no, it also has some custom gui thingy |
| 16:10.16 | golinux | Changing the subject . . . https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=217803 |
| 16:11.14 | *** join/#devuan Human_G33k (~Human_G33@62.147.242.8) |
| 16:11.22 | golinux | FF is dropping support for libalsa and making pulseaudio a dependency. More suckiness from the 'future of computing'[tm] |
| 16:11.48 | buZz | lets move back to NCSA Mosaic |
| 16:12.00 | buZz | i could compile that on this CHIP computer within 2 minutes |
| 16:12.01 | buZz | :P |
| 16:12.14 | buZz | https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic |
| 16:12.35 | golinux | Just do it! |
| 16:12.40 | buZz | :D |
| 16:12.52 | buZz | never wait for external changes, just make em yourself |
| 16:13.20 | buZz | i've been messing with ppls statistics for a while now, all my automated http stuff already reports itself as NCSA Mosaic |
| 16:13.39 | buZz | once enough ppl do that, webdevs will just feel forced to comply ;) |
| 16:14.33 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Icedove@189.231.8.151) |
| 16:17.11 | buZz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:17.12 | buZz | \o |
| 16:21.33 | *** join/#devuan premoboss (~utente@91.253.92.58) |
| 16:23.22 | deanmean | did want to say serious THANKS for the hard work...make no mistake about that...truly appreciated...fingers crossed that the future works out but just happy that the present is good... |
| 16:24.10 | buZz | ah fkk, this removal of systemd destroys both network and my OTG serial connection |
| 16:24.14 | buZz | grlmb |
| 16:24.20 | buZz | death 2 poetering |
| 16:24.56 | nextime | packages is online |
| 16:25.05 | nextime | sorry no ipv6 for a couple of hours |
| 16:25.15 | djph | buZz: that's a bit extre... oh, nevermind; I'll get the pitchforks |
| 16:25.15 | nextime | ( i cannot migrate it on the other node ) |
| 16:26.44 | buZz | djph: yay |
| 16:26.44 | buZz | :P |
| 16:27.42 | buZz | a nice song for lennard; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6od76UNHt-M |
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| 16:39.21 | buZz | well, lets see if the hivemind has some knowledge |
| 16:39.24 | buZz | https://bbs.nextthing.co/t/getting-rid-of-poetty-shiz/10857 |
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| 16:45.24 | IoFran | hello!, how install hamster-applet on Devuan ascii? |
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| 17:00.19 | Vall | BTW, deanmean and fsmithred: in case you haven't seen yet, Distrowatch Weekly just published a glowing review of Refracta, which is how I became acquainted with the distro: https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta |
| 17:04.09 | Lydia_K | Wow, congrats fsmithred! That's awesome! |
| 17:05.57 | fsmithred | yes, I've seen it. :) :) |
| 17:06.57 | Vall | fsmithred: what kernel is refracta using right now? |
| 17:10.05 | Lydia_K | Great work :) |
| 17:15.49 | golinux | (Lydia-K is not reading her email) |
| 17:16.44 | golinux | Lydia_K: Oops . . . underscore |
| 17:18.58 | fsmithred | Vall, same kernel as devuan and debian jessie |
| 17:19.43 | Vall | OK, so 3.16.x... |
| 17:19.47 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 17:20.21 | fsmithred | almost everything is straight from the main repo |
| 17:20.26 | fsmithred | no contrib or non-free |
| 17:20.51 | fsmithred | a couple things pulled in from outside (yad, youtube-viewer, and my own scripts) |
| 17:20.58 | Vall | Been playing with 4.1.x here for a few weeks in my laptop. But for almost everything else, I'm a steadfast 2.6.32 holdout :-/ |
| 17:21.09 | Vall | OK |
| 17:21.15 | fsmithred | ouch |
| 17:21.19 | Vall | LOL |
| 17:21.29 | Vall | 2.6.32 is fine for servers ;-) |
| 17:21.33 | fsmithred | I assume that' |
| 17:21.34 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 17:21.52 | fsmithred | and they probably were installed when 2.6 wasn't old |
| 17:21.55 | fsmithred | brb |
| 17:22.22 | Vall | But 2.6.32 was sucking rocks here in my laptop, specially regarding USB3 support, which is why I'm experimenting with 4.1.x |
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| 17:39.30 | fsmithred | Vall, backports has 4.6 or 4.7 |
| 17:39.48 | Vall | thanks fsmithred |
| 17:40.29 | fsmithred | and if you're using refracta, there's a file in sources.list.d. Just uncomment the deb line an update |
| 17:50.11 | Vall | OK |
| 17:50.32 | Vall | So as to have access to Debian "standard" repos. |
| 17:52.41 | fsmithred | buZz, I miss my ncsa mosaic, and I'm still angry at compuserve for stopping support. |
| 17:52.54 | buZz | who? |
| 17:53.18 | fsmithred | compuserve was an online service similar to aol, but better |
| 17:53.23 | buZz | what kinda support did they ever offer someone? |
| 17:53.30 | buZz | beside 'my keyword doesnt work' |
| 17:53.45 | fsmithred | ncsa mosaic worked, and then they informed everyone that it would no longer work |
| 17:54.05 | buZz | ncsa mosaic works today, 0 dependencies on compuserve |
| 17:54.05 | fsmithred | and we had to download new software |
| 17:54.38 | fsmithred | is it still maintained, or you're running an ancient version? |
| 17:54.48 | buZz | the github i linked is maintained |
| 17:54.54 | buZz | and ancient |
| 17:54.55 | buZz | :P |
| 17:55.08 | buZz | if the scriptkiddies would stop ddossing github already |
| 17:55.17 | buZz | well, DNS |
| 17:58.39 | Vall | buZz: seriously?! A *maintained* repo for NCSA Mosaic?! ;-) |
| 17:58.41 | Vall | Wow |
| 17:58.57 | Vall | I remember running it for the first time in 1992... |
| 17:59.46 | Vall | Does it compile under present-time Linux? I'm curious to see how it would render some of the modern pages we have in the Internet today :-) |
| 18:00.05 | buZz | Vall: yes! |
| 18:00.11 | Vall | Wow! |
| 18:00.13 | buZz | it compiles in 2 minutes on this 1ghz cortex a7 here |
| 18:00.18 | Vall | and triple wow! ;-) |
| 18:00.25 | buZz | and its pretty shit for modern pages ;) |
| 18:00.26 | Vall | please give me the link! ;-) |
| 18:00.33 | buZz | 18:12:13 < buZz> https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic |
| 18:00.34 | Vall | I have to download this right away ;-) |
| 18:00.38 | buZz | github is dedf |
| 18:00.39 | buZz | -f |
| 18:00.43 | buZz | DDoS on their dns |
| 18:00.46 | Vall | thanks! |
| 18:00.52 | buZz | twitter, etsy also affected |
| 18:01.03 | Vall | github is loading here with no issues whatsoever |
| 18:01.06 | buZz | cool |
| 18:01.08 | Vall | in fact just loaded the above page |
| 18:01.21 | buZz | clone it quickly before your dns cache dies ;) |
| 18:03.08 | Vall | git clone https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic.git |
| 18:03.09 | Vall | Initialized empty Git repository in /usr2/jade6/usr/local/src/www/clients/ncsa_mosaic/ncsa-mosaic/.git/ |
| 18:03.09 | Vall | error: The requested URL returned error: 404 while accessing https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic.git/info/refs |
| 18:03.13 | Vall | :-P |
| 18:03.31 | Vall | but this is a 404, not a DNS error |
| 18:03.38 | Vall | so I guess the repo is b0rked... |
| 18:08.58 | jaromil | ahaha nice this mosaic very nostalgic |
| 18:09.26 | jaromil | i cloned and compiled allright |
| 18:09.33 | jaromil | but it doesnt works with many webpages |
| 18:11.01 | jaromil | New History Format: .mosaic/x-history lol |
| 18:11.48 | buZz | :) |
| 18:12.09 | Vall | LOL |
| 18:12.14 | buZz | i think it could be a lot better with some tiny mods |
| 18:12.22 | buZz | like blocking out whatever is inside <script> |
| 18:13.38 | jaromil | yes js gets in the way |
| 18:13.54 | jaromil | planet.dyne.org renders allright. also utf8 fails |
| 18:14.04 | buZz | still, mosaic is pretty insanely fast , compared to chromium/ffox/etc |
| 18:14.20 | jaromil | ya betcha |
| 18:14.34 | fsmithred | github appears to be down |
| 18:14.38 | jaromil | not on my side |
| 18:14.42 | fsmithred | huh |
| 18:14.55 | buZz | fsmithred: dns ddos |
| 18:15.05 | buZz | https://www.businessinsider.nl/amazon-spotify-twitter-github-and-etsy-down-in-apparent-dns-attack-2016-10/?international=true&r=US |
| 18:15.28 | fsmithred | somebody doesn't want us to get to FOSS? |
| 18:15.30 | jaromil | why i'm not sorry for etsy <g> |
| 18:15.37 | buZz | OMG, NEW BLACK MIRROR EPS |
| 18:15.42 | buZz | drops all and watches |
| 18:15.42 | jaromil | OMG |
| 18:24.03 | crhylove | buZz: Love that show.... |
| 18:24.42 | buZz | errybuddy does :) |
| 18:45.15 | hellekin | yup |
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