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| 09:01.18 | Gup | anyone had issues booting the raspberry pi image? i get a few flashes on the ACT light, then nothing. |
| 09:01.45 | Gup | i dont have a screen for it so no error message clues. I guess its hung at the bootloader |
| 09:02.49 | Gup | i could probably find a keyboard... maybe its waiting for me to press enter |
| 09:04.22 | Gup | nope, thats not worked. no caps/num lights either |
| 09:05.22 | parazyd | Gup: are you using the beta2rc1 or beta1 image? |
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| 09:08.18 | Gup | parazyd, https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_beta/devuan_jessie_1.0.0-beta_armhf_raspi2.img.xz |
| 09:08.38 | Gup | i didn't see another option, is it hosted elsewhere? |
| 09:08.55 | parazyd | there is a newer image in the testing/ dir |
| 09:09.01 | parazyd | but this image was reported working |
| 09:09.12 | parazyd | how did you put it on your sd card? |
| 09:10.24 | Gup | dd |
| 09:10.46 | parazyd | did you uncompress first? |
| 09:10.53 | parazyd | sorry if questions are dumb |
| 09:10.57 | Gup | i did pipe though pv though to monitor process, and i did mount and edit /etc/hostname |
| 09:11.02 | Gup | yep, decompressed |
| 09:11.39 | Gup | might try again without mounting it first, though i've not had problems making that change with raspbian |
| 09:11.52 | parazyd | hmm dunno |
| 09:12.08 | parazyd | are you using pi 2 or pi 3? |
| 09:12.53 | parazyd | not sure also if pv did anything weird |
| 09:13.15 | Gup | pi 2 |
| 09:13.41 | Gup | pv shouldn't mess with anything but i'll leave it out this time |
| 09:14.09 | parazyd | weird, that same image worked for me on my pi 2 |
| 09:14.14 | parazyd | check the sd card slot |
| 09:14.21 | parazyd | sometimes it doesn't read the card well |
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| 09:14.50 | parazyd | take the card in and out a few times |
| 09:14.53 | Narel | Hi I've a question |
| 09:15.12 | Narel | When systemd will be integrated in linux kernel . |
| 09:15.13 | Gup | yeah its in an awkward place the way i have the board mounted, so will check that |
| 09:15.14 | Narel | ? |
| 09:16.09 | tox_ | Narel: I fear that moment |
| 09:17.31 | Gup | parazyd, thanks for the tip, also downloading the testing version now you've alerted me to its presence, another route to try, cheers |
| 09:17.43 | parazyd | yes please try it and report back |
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| 09:24.32 | Gup | parazyd, well the pure dd, unmounted, unmodified copy has made no change :/ going to try beta2 now |
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| 09:45.05 | Gup | parazyd, erm, its not a pi 2, its just a pi 1, revision 2 (Raspberry Pi Model B) |
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| 09:45.13 | Gup | thats probably the problem |
| 09:45.21 | parazyd | ah, yes |
| 09:45.28 | parazyd | that one doesn't boot armhf |
| 09:45.44 | parazyd | in due time i will provide rpi1 builds as well |
| 09:45.55 | parazyd | there are just some specific things to take care of |
| 09:46.04 | parazyd | sorry :/ |
| 09:46.25 | Gup | no worries |
| 09:46.38 | Gup | i guess a dist-upgrade from raspbian is going to fail? |
| 09:47.06 | parazyd | i believe so. i remember getting lots of segfaults when i did it |
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| 09:47.34 | Gup | i'm tempted to get a newer model ;) |
| 09:48.17 | parazyd | yeah why not? the pi 3 is quite fast |
| 09:51.23 | Gup | money is tight is the only reason, and this one does its job just fine |
| 09:51.34 | Gup | i'll continue to think of ideas to justify it ;) |
| 09:52.39 | Gup | i look forward to the rpi1 builds, let me know if you need a hand testing them or anything |
| 09:53.21 | parazyd | yes sure :) |
| 09:56.03 | Gup | whats the issues? I debootstrapd onto an O2 Joggler recently and that went well, although that is x86. is it arm related? |
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| 10:05.22 | parazyd | i need armel packages to make it work |
| 10:05.44 | parazyd | investigating where to get them from (probably raspbian, but still not sure) because the debian ones don't seem good |
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| 10:09.25 | nextime_ | if i remember right, the issue is that armhf packages from debian/devuan are armv6, rpi1 is armv5 |
| 10:09.31 | nextime_ | so they don't work |
| 10:09.38 | nextime_ | rpi2 and 3 are armv6 so no issues |
| 10:09.58 | parazyd | no, rpi1 doesn't even support hard float |
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| 10:09.58 | nextime_ | to make devuan works on rpi all binary packages needs to be recompiled |
| 10:10.16 | parazyd | the raspbian armel ones do work |
| 10:10.19 | nextime_ | parazyd: ok, so, armel packages are armv6 instead of armv5 then |
| 10:10.20 | nextime_ | :) |
| 10:10.31 | parazyd | but devuan isn't compiling that yet |
| 10:10.34 | parazyd | iirc |
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| 10:10.45 | parazyd | armv6 is fine |
| 10:10.54 | parazyd | just has to be armel, not armhf |
| 10:11.25 | nextime | parazyd: we already have both armel and armhf |
| 10:11.39 | nextime | but our armel packages, like the debian one, won't work on rpi |
| 10:11.39 | parazyd | hmm they didn't seem to work |
| 10:11.47 | parazyd | yeah |
| 10:12.02 | nextime | and it's related to armvX or to something like that |
| 10:12.28 | parazyd | mhm, but couldn't amprolla use the ones from raspbian for armel repos? |
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| 10:12.56 | nextime | parazyd: yes, of course we can do that |
| 10:13.14 | nextime | BUT we also need to setup a build server for that architecture/flags |
| 10:13.23 | nextime | for packages we build |
| 10:13.57 | nextime | our armel build server is using the same flags as the debian one right now |
| 10:14.21 | nextime | we can even setup an additional one and then having two set of armel packages |
| 10:14.31 | nextime | no issue in do that |
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| 10:14.39 | Gup | well its all over my head but sounds like progress :) |
| 10:15.51 | nextime | the point is: how usefull will really is to do that? how many rpi1 out there will use devuan and how many rpi1 there will be in future? |
| 10:17.30 | parazyd | nextime: n900 is the real reason |
| 10:17.47 | parazyd | devuan can then be the new upstream for maemo |
| 10:17.55 | parazyd | kind of a big deal :) |
| 10:19.05 | nextime | parazyd: well, i'm the owner of two abandoned n900, as they are obsolete at hw level today in my hopinion, but yes, i know there is a huge user base out there, so, it make sense |
| 10:19.40 | parazyd | yep |
| 10:19.49 | parazyd | having up to date packages on maemo is great |
| 10:20.07 | parazyd | but you know, if it's not a problem to set it up - consider it :) |
| 10:20.32 | nextime | i will, but not before amprolla2 release |
| 10:23.33 | parazyd | ack |
| 10:23.36 | parazyd | thanks |
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| 10:50.25 | tox_ | parazyd: rpi1 is armhf |
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| 11:04.53 | Gup | i'm just running some updates on my rpi1 now and it does say armhf: |
| 11:04.57 | Gup | Get:5 http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main libgd2-xpm armhf 2.0.36~rc1~dfsg-6.1+deb7u5 [222 kB] |
| 11:05.16 | Gup | however uname -a says armv6l |
| 11:05.21 | Gup | Linux rpi 4.4.23+ #913 Tue Oct 4 13:56:56 BST 2016 armv6l |
| 11:06.07 | parazyd | tox_: regardless, armel+armv6 will work anywhere |
| 11:06.13 | parazyd | armhf+armv6 won't |
| 11:06.37 | parazyd | also killing 2 birds with one stone if we do armel+armv6 |
| 11:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ack |
| 11:07.36 | parazyd | nextime: will amprolla be source agnostic? i mean, will it be able to use another amprolla as upstream? |
| 11:07.54 | parazyd | ex: amprolla > devuan's amprolla > debian |
| 11:07.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | nextime: ((two abandoned n900)) shame on you! ;-) |
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| 11:36.00 | detha | parazyd: no reason why you couldn't do that. amprolla's all the way down. |
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| 11:39.23 | parazyd | detha: ok, cool :) |
| 11:39.44 | parazyd | gonna be useful for derivated distros |
| 11:41.07 | OmegaPhil | Well well, I know partly why apt-get source is suddenly failing to verify .dsc files |
| 11:41.23 | detha | It will be more and more difficult to faultfind things though - which of the 3 intermediate repos did package X come from? |
| 11:41.37 | OmegaPhil | With Devuan its not bothering to call gpgv with any keyrings (???), yet in Debian Testing it does |
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| 11:41.45 | OmegaPhil | continues |
| 11:42.35 | parazyd | detha: it's always upstream's fault :D |
| 12:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | (faultfind) isn't it best common practice to always just escalate to next higher layer? |
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| 12:21.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | just asking |
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| 12:38.43 | Drugo | why there are images of beta2 for arm since wednesday and stil nothing for amd64? |
| 12:52.33 | OmegaPhil | How do you tag an issue in the Devuan tracker? |
| 12:52.52 | OmegaPhil | Closest I see is Labels but there doesn't appear to be a UI for a reporter to change them |
| 13:16.00 | nextime | DocScrutinizer05: n900 doesn't have lte. |
| 13:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got a tracker now? |
| 13:16.10 | nextime | parazyd: yes |
| 13:16.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | nextime: indeed |
| 13:17.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh it couldn't use it either, lack of memory bandwidth being the bottleneck even in UMTS HSPA |
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| 13:18.44 | parazyd | Drugo: it's different for arm. i don't need as much stuff as amd64/i386 does |
| 13:18.51 | parazyd | things like the installer and stuff |
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| 13:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tracker |
| 13:35.33 | infobot | ""Tracker currently has a function called tracker_memory_setrlimits() which sets the limitation of RLIMIT_AS and RLIMIT_DATA clamping it between 50% of total memory and MAXLONG (2GB on 32-bit) as an upper limit."" Between 50% and MAXLONG of memory? WHAT THE F*CKING HELL SUCKER?! https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Tracker/Documentation/Configuration |
| 13:35.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 13:35.48 | OmegaPhil | https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/issues/76 |
| 13:35.50 | OmegaPhil | Bug tracker |
| 13:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys #devuan *track* |
| 13:36.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bugtracker |
| 13:36.41 | infobot | [bugtracker] https://devuan.org/os/issues (soon) |
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| 14:07.01 | OmegaPhil | golinux: Just make me supreme sysadmin of devuan and its sorted :) |
| 14:09.38 | golinux | OmegaPhil: I don't have those magic powers |
| 14:10.04 | OmegaPhil | aww |
| 14:10.21 | golinux | It's good that I don't actually ;) |
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| 14:10.47 | golinux | Git is still pretty much a mystery to me. |
| 14:12.08 | OmegaPhil | I've used it for some years now, but luckily nowhere that needs lots of active branches |
| 14:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | not git, this github stuff |
| 14:13.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | unbearable |
| 14:14.32 | MinceR | gitlab, actually :> |
| 14:14.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever git??b |
| 14:15.03 | golinux | Wasn't there talk about changing platforms? |
| 14:15.18 | MinceR | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 14:15.35 | MinceR | github is nonfree and as such can't be self-hosted |
| 14:15.41 | MinceR | so it's unlikely to be an option at all |
| 14:17.10 | golinux | I recently got a notification from gitlab with the subject: "Continuous Integration, GitLab World Tour, and More!" |
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| 14:17.21 | golinux | groan . . . |
| 14:17.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | gitlab maybe is possible to self-host but obviously way beyond the state where it can get self-maintained |
| 14:17.45 | golinux | And modularity is so quaint. |
| 14:17.48 | OmegaPhil | Took a minute or so to even sign in, lol. |
| 14:17.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and JS infested fubar |
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| 14:17.57 | OmegaPhil | Yeah, JavaScript cancer :/ |
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| 14:18.05 | golinux | Seems that gitlab ci can't be turned off |
| 14:18.26 | golinux | Which is vexing nextime |
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| 14:20.00 | golinux | lkcl: So how is the unofficial-live install working? |
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| 14:20.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean I'm fine with websites using JS for implementing stuff you can not do in plain HTML. But when not even a search textbox or dirlisting works without JS, just because, then... >:-( |
| 14:21.32 | golinux | Because it's SNS! |
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| 14:22.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | having a text input box or a tiny icon in front of text are genuine functions of plain HTML which you really shouldn't need JS for. When a website doesn't even allow *optional* alternative plain-HTML for such basic stuff, then shoot the devels^H designers with owl shit |
| 14:24.43 | golinux | LOL! |
| 14:25.49 | tox_ | Ahahahahahahahah! |
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| 14:29.49 | MinceR | maybe gogs is better? |
| 14:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 14:34.06 | golinux | Yeah, that's what was suggested as an alternative |
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| 14:34.43 | golinux | October 10th, 2016 |
| 14:34.43 | golinux | 4:47 pm |
| 14:34.43 | golinux | nextime_ |
| 14:34.43 | golinux | anyway would like to take this task for devuan as we plan to give gogs a chance over gitlab? |
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| 14:35.29 | golinux | (botbot logs are very useful) |
| 14:35.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still fail to get the hilarity my last post caused |
| 14:36.35 | golinux | Gotta laugh to keep from crying (or breaking things) |
| 14:36.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's SNS? |
| 14:37.09 | golinux | Siny New Shit |
| 14:37.14 | golinux | Shiny |
| 14:37.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah k |
| 14:37.17 | MinceR | i think the funny part was "owl shit" |
| 14:37.31 | golinux | That too . . . |
| 14:38.05 | golinux | They really deserve elephant dung |
| 14:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | owls supposed to be wise ;-) |
| 14:39.38 | Lydia_K | gogs is ok, but it's very simplistic. |
| 14:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | elephant dung only for people who forget the errors they made yesterday and do them again today |
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| 14:50.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | err what?? https://try.gogs.io/ >>It's all on GitHub! << |
| 14:51.15 | Lydia_K | Yeah, their code is on github, I used it at work for a bit |
| 14:51.38 | Lydia_K | I actually contributed a few tiny patches, I honestly don't remember what anymore, really small fixes, nothing special. |
| 14:52.36 | golinux | (Anything Lydia_K contributes is special) |
| 14:52.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't a git webservice host itself, just like a compiler builds itself? |
| 14:55.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'd think this would be a question of honor |
| 14:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | just like microsoft doesn't run linux on their webservers ;-) |
| 14:57.15 | MinceR | except they do |
| 14:57.24 | MinceR | they hide their crap behind akamai's gnu/linux systems |
| 14:57.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, really? |
| 14:57.33 | MinceR | or at least used to |
| 14:57.52 | MinceR | can't tell anymore as they've learned to fake the headers(?) used to identify them |
| 14:57.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, akamai know their shit |
| 14:57.58 | MinceR | unlike m$ :> |
| 14:58.19 | MinceR | maybe gogs will eventually self-host |
| 14:58.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | akamai's not that bad |
| 14:58.41 | MinceR | i doubt any systems self-host from the first moments of their existence |
| 14:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure :-) That's the "trick": how to bootstrap |
| 14:59.30 | golinux | DocScrutinizer05: Maybe they don't have the resources to d that yet. |
| 14:59.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | possible, yes |
| 14:59.52 | golinux | You want to donate the resources? |
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| 15:00.43 | MinceR | also, reportedly, when m$ centralized skype, they used gnu/linux servers to do the routing that used to be done by random skype users |
| 15:00.47 | MinceR | they probably still do |
| 15:01.21 | golinux | And we have wandered very OT |
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| 15:04.02 | Lydia_K | DocScrutinizer05: They probably started there before it was really functional, and now, well, why bother moving when it's all there and all your contributers are there? |
| 15:04.42 | Lydia_K | Plus I get the feeling their target is more like small groups, not so much "Joe Public", and maintaining systems where any person can make an account anytime they like can be a hassle. |
| 15:04.55 | Lydia_K | Might as well just let github deal with it, they already have the infrstructure and the people in place. |
| 15:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lydia_K: ack |
| 15:06.54 | MinceR | they could move to notabug :> |
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| 15:19.30 | gallux | Hello :) |
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| 17:08.01 | detha | DocScrutinizer05: you underestimate the effort it takes to not use javascript. |
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| 17:09.21 | golinux | Not one of the sites I designed has any native js |
| 17:09.34 | golinux | detha ^^^ |
| 17:10.03 | golinux | And no icon navigation either! |
| 17:10.32 | golinux | Just straight markup + css |
| 17:10.48 | OmegaPhil | I want to be exploited by dubious web fonts |
| 17:11.21 | detha | golinux: I try to make things at least usable without js. Since html5 that is mostly possible, but sometimes..... |
| 17:12.15 | golinux | That would depend on your definition of usable |
| 17:14.56 | detha | golinux: example. I have a form, with many many fields, a lot of them required. It has a submit button. Client also would like a 'back' button. Oh, and if user hits back button and then goes to the form again, it must retain the part already filled in. |
| 17:16.15 | detha | with js, I can easily do that. without js, I either lose pre-check on 'required' or 'retain whatever already filled in'. |
| 17:17.00 | golinux | Yeah, interactive presents problems. I use a php contact form (not written by me) |
| 17:17.56 | OmegaPhil | JavaScript was made for form validation though |
| 17:18.03 | OmegaPhil | Don't think theres a problem there? |
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| 17:20.02 | detha | html5 removes the need for most of the javascript form validation - it can check for required fields, valid date or email, and against regular expressions. The only thing it cannot do is 'if field 3 is 'yes', then field4 and field5 need to be filled in' |
| 17:20.10 | OmegaPhil | Oh nice |
| 17:20.35 | OmegaPhil | Still, do that stuff server side |
| 17:21.10 | buZz | detha: just would require double work |
| 17:21.23 | buZz | detha: cause imho you cant assume 100% of your users have html5 support |
| 17:21.41 | detha | It needs to be server-side (if only against bots and people with firebug). However, users expect pre-check these days |
| 17:21.51 | buZz | which is why i usually spoof browser ident to NSCA/Mosaic 2 |
| 17:21.59 | OmegaPhil | Lol :) |
| 17:22.13 | buZz | NCSA* |
| 17:22.30 | buZz | https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic <-- its amazing fast btw |
| 17:22.42 | buZz | and compiles on recent distros ;) |
| 17:23.09 | detha | does it render modern sites though? |
| 17:24.46 | OmegaPhil | Proprietary license |
| 17:25.29 | buZz | detha: a bit |
| 17:26.27 | buZz | detha: makes you realize what toxic influence javascript has to reduce accessibility ;) |
| 17:27.52 | detha | buZz: I know all about it - my default browser has javascript off. (Which is why sites I build have to at least render properly without js) |
| 17:28.01 | buZz | \o/ |
| 17:28.17 | buZz | detha: i get a nodejs/meteor dev ask me often 'how does this site work' |
| 17:28.34 | buZz | first response is always, 'it doesnt show me anything' 'do you have js turned on' |
| 17:28.37 | buZz | :P |
| 17:30.37 | detha | I like that concept |
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| 17:40.59 | *** join/#devuan Deformat (6d632a12@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.109.99.42.18) |
| 17:41.26 | Deformat | hello |
| 17:42.41 | Deformat | I'm a Fedora user who's a bit sick of systemd and the way it works. I was wondering: On the site of Devuan isays that it "offers" multiple init systems. I get that at the base install, or?... |
| 17:42.56 | buZz | yes |
| 17:43.04 | buZz | base install you get all the repos |
| 17:43.07 | Deformat | oh |
| 17:43.13 | buZz | and sysv by default iirc |
| 17:43.13 | Leander256 | actually it just installs sysvinit |
| 17:43.15 | fsmithred | you get sysvinit |
| 17:43.36 | fsmithred | if you want something else, you need to change it manually, after install |
| 17:43.42 | Deformat | oh |
| 17:43.44 | Deformat | I see. |
| 17:43.49 | buZz | yeah it wont automagically change ;) |
| 17:43.52 | fsmithred | prettys sure. I've never tried it |
| 17:44.13 | fsmithred | maybe it's possible to do it from the start with a debootstrap install |
| 17:44.22 | fsmithred | just a guess |
| 17:44.45 | Deformat | I see. Thanks a lot! Might actually try this |
| 17:44.47 | fsmithred | which one did you want? |
| 17:44.52 | Deformat | well |
| 17:45.00 | Deformat | I heard some pretty nice stuff about OpenRC |
| 17:45.14 | fsmithred | I think someone wrote a howto for openrc |
| 17:45.35 | fsmithred | for devuan, I mean. I'm sure there are some for debian. |
| 17:45.54 | Deformat | http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/openrc-conversion.html |
| 17:46.00 | Deformat | this, I guess? |
| 17:46.03 | fsmithred | and devuan is almost indistinguishable from debian pre-systemd |
| 17:46.19 | fsmithred | yeah, that one should work |
| 17:46.29 | Deformat | yea, what can I say |
| 17:46.34 | Akuli | what's better in openrc than in sysvinit? |
| 17:46.35 | Deformat | I've been a long-time Fedora user |
| 17:46.37 | Akuli | i'm just curious |
| 17:46.55 | Deformat | and got pissed lately at the way my laptop's going |
| 17:46.56 | Deformat | well |
| 17:48.04 | Leander256 | openrc has nice features like script dependencies, and easy network configuration |
| 17:48.45 | Deformat | TBH, I'm no real expert, and I might be a huge idiot for doing this |
| 17:48.48 | Deformat | but |
| 17:48.49 | Leander256 | and the runlevels are easier to manage IMHO |
| 17:48.55 | Deformat | systemd is using my resources as hell |
| 17:49.06 | Deformat | sysvinit AFAIK has some security issues |
| 17:49.11 | Deformat | so I'm going for an alternative |
| 17:49.33 | Deformat | and OpenRC seems to be pretty popular |
| 17:49.34 | fsmithred | Deformat, are you familiar with debian? Or you've been strictly on rpm-based distros? |
| 17:49.49 | Deformat | I did run Debian for a while |
| 17:49.57 | Deformat | that was, like, a month or so |
| 17:50.06 | Deformat | and I did use it for my basic CS uni shit |
| 17:50.26 | fsmithred | might be easier to go with defaults at first |
| 17:50.27 | Leander256 | I'm a long-time Gentoo user, so I'm quite familiar and happy with OpenRC |
| 17:50.49 | Deformat | I know that there's the risk of a Frankendebian happening |
| 17:51.02 | Deformat | but yea, I guess I can do it |
| 17:51.08 | Leander256 | but I don't get what you mean by security issues with sysvinit |
| 17:51.12 | fsmithred | no, I'm just thinking you should give yourself a little time to learn some of the debian secret commands |
| 17:51.32 | Deformat | "secret commands"? |
| 17:51.50 | fsmithred | debian-specific scripts used for system administration |
| 17:52.00 | fsmithred | scripts and programs |
| 17:53.50 | Deformat | Sorry if I sound totally stupid, but I know bash and C, that's not an issue. I don't intend to become a sysadmin tho. |
| 17:53.51 | fsmithred | I started with redhat and suse, and when I switched to debian, it took me a while to get used to some different ways of doing things |
| 17:54.21 | Deformat | It's just that I woke up lately that my old laptop was using its resources to the max |
| 17:54.32 | Deformat | for really small stuff |
| 17:54.35 | Deformat | and it's...too weird |
| 17:54.45 | fsmithred | what desktop you using? |
| 17:55.03 | Deformat | htop showed me that systemd was really resource-hungry on my system, for some reason |
| 17:55.05 | Deformat | well |
| 17:55.25 | Deformat | Cinnamon, but truth be told, I tried using Openbox lately, but I barely feel any difference |
| 17:55.28 | fsmithred | maybe 'cause it's trying to do everything? |
| 17:55.32 | fsmithred | wow |
| 17:55.35 | Deformat | and for 3GB of RAM... |
| 17:55.38 | Deformat | it's just too weird |
| 17:55.44 | fsmithred | they should feel different |
| 17:56.25 | Deformat | and Cinnamon lately is using 100-110MB of RAM lately, and quite less CPU as it used to a year ago, let's say. |
| 17:56.31 | Deformat | I just don't get it what's going on |
| 17:56.39 | Deformat | nm-applet was using 3% of the CPU |
| 17:56.48 | Deformat | and that's a pretty decent i3, mind you. |
| 17:56.56 | Deformat | I've never had issues in the past years with this laptop |
| 17:56.58 | buZz | networkmanager is poop, confirmed |
| 17:57.02 | buZz | wicd is cool |
| 17:57.07 | buZz | no nonsense |
| 17:57.30 | Deformat | but now it's becoming less and less usable. |
| 17:57.34 | buZz | Deformat: keep in mind, cpu usage of nm will change based on the USB devices you have connected ;) |
| 17:57.34 | Deformat | so right now |
| 17:57.45 | Deformat | well, it was only my mouse last night |
| 17:58.12 | buZz | probably untrue, most laptops for instance have touchpad on USB , and BT radio |
| 17:58.51 | Deformat | okay, I guess that makes things a bit more legit, but it's still pretty awkward |
| 17:59.33 | Deformat | so I'm looking right now to changing, so I'm looking at Devuan, Void, SliTaz, heck, I'm tempted even by FreeBSD. |
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| 18:07.15 | golinux | Why don't you try the unofficial-devuan live? |
| 18:07.17 | golinux | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/unofficial_devuan_live/ |
| 18:07.28 | golinux | Deformat: ^^^ |
| 18:07.41 | golinux | You can get a feel for it that way. |
| 18:08.12 | Deformat | Yeah, will do! :) |
| 18:08.39 | golinux | You might also want to read some here: http://troubleshooters.com/linux/init/ |
| 18:09.16 | golinux | and here: https://talk.devuan.org/t/an-alternative-init-system-for-devuan/205 |
| 18:12.20 | Deformat | Thanks, those will really come handy! |
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| 20:21.12 | Humanoid | If you include jessie-backports in your sources.list, upgrading debootstrap with "apt-get install debootstrap" will overwrite the devuan debootstrap with the debian debootstrap. |
| 20:24.19 | Humanoid | When doing "apt-cache policy" jessie-backports get the same priority 500 as jessie. I think this is the source of the problem. On a debian system, debian-backports ends up getting only 100; |
| 20:28.18 | fsmithred | yes, you need to pin backports at a lower priority |
| 20:28.57 | fsmithred | or when you do an apt-get dist-upgrade, you'll get everything from backports |
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| 20:33.30 | Humanoid | How come when using a debian reposity, jessie-backports automatically get 100, but not on packages.devuan.org? |
| 20:34.40 | Humanoid | Can the server at packages.devuan.org be set to automatically give it a priority of 100, so we don't have to change our apt preferences? |
| 20:37.13 | Humanoid | I think it can be fixed in this file: https://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie-backports/Release |
| 20:37.25 | Humanoid | Compare it to this one: http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie-backports/Release |
| 20:37.51 | Humanoid | The debian version has some extra lines like: "NotAutomatic: yes" and "ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes" |
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| 20:48.54 | hellekin | Humanoid: mixing devuan repos with Debian's isn't working well, as Devuan repos already overlay Debian's |
| 20:49.15 | Humanoid | hellekin: I'm not mixing them. |
| 20:49.34 | hellekin | oh, I misunderstood that sorry |
| 20:50.06 | hellekin | Humanoid: if you have issues with devuan packages you should report an issue with Amprolla so nextime and Centurion_Dan can check this out |
| 20:52.09 | Humanoid | It's not the package, it's the Release file from jessie-backports, that doesn't automatically get pinned to 100. I managed to do it myself in my configuration as fsmithred told me to, but I think it should be fixed in the release file. |
| 20:53.27 | fsmithred | I posted an issue awhile ago, and I've spoken to Centurion_Dan about it. |
| 20:53.55 | fsmithred | From what I remember, it wasn't working the way it was supposed to be working. |
| 20:55.06 | fsmithred | I don't know if that's going to be sorted out by amprolla2 |
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| 20:58.52 | Humanoid | What's the difference between jessie-updates and jessie-security on devuan? I noticed debian uses jessie-updates for security updates. |
| 21:02.20 | Humanoid | The package lists are different too. |
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| 21:08.51 | hellekin | Humanoid: https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list.d/ explains the difference |
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| 21:10.21 | Humanoid | Ah good, thanks! |
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| 22:36.04 | aitor | hi all |
| 22:36.24 | pydsigner | Hi |
| 22:36.49 | aitor | :) |
| 22:37.36 | aitor | i'm having a look at ralph's git repo of vdev |
| 22:38.28 | aitor | i would like too work together with him on the packaging, but we are using different methods |
| 22:38.45 | aitor | and it's a bit confusing for me :) |
| 22:39.09 | aitor | he added the man pages, very good !! |
| 22:44.30 | aitor | i'll try closely match my vdev-scripts (that is, the scripts for adding/removing vdev) to ralph's vdev-initramfs |
| 22:45.52 | aitor | on the other hand, i think that all the packages: |
| 22:46.44 | aitor | vdevd, libudeb1-compat, libudev1-compat-udeb, libudev-compat-dev, etc... |
| 22:47.11 | aitor | should have the same upstream version number |
| 22:47.27 | aitor | but that's may opinion :) |
| 22:48.01 | aitor | at the same way, this should be applied separately to. |
| 22:48.22 | aitor | all the packages of fskit |
| 22:48.33 | aitor | and all the packages of pstat |
| 22:50.02 | aitor | there is an unique Makefile for vdev, which builds all the packages at once |
| 22:52.10 | aitor | ralph also changed the sources of some vdev helpers, added example/insserv-overrides-udev, etc... |
| 22:53.51 | aitor | oh! i wrote may opinion :) |
| 22:54.08 | aitor | *my* opinion (IMHO) |
| 22:57.39 | aitor | nobody here? |
| 22:58.15 | furrywolf | I'm mostly not here. |
| 22:58.51 | aitor | hi, furrywolf |
| 23:01.57 | aitor | there is also lisp code in tools/udevrules |
| 23:02.38 | *** join/#devuan KittenNIX (~KittenGNU@unaffiliated/kittengnu) |
| 23:03.59 | furrywolf | I went to the local public auction today, but left after a few hours due to constant, non-stop pouring rain. over 3" of rain during the time I was there. now I'm watching it online, like I should have done from the beginning! |
| 23:04.21 | furrywolf | sadly, the actual live audio/video doesn't work, due to it being nothing but a blank page with a .swf file. |
| 23:06.34 | aitor | i see the following code in vdevd/helpers/LINUX: |
| 23:06.51 | aitor | if [ -n "$HWDB_FS" ] && [ -f "$HWDB_FS" ]; then |
| 23:07.01 | aitor | /bin/mount -t squashfs -o loop "$HWDB_FS" "$HWDB_DIR" 2>/dev/null |
| 23:08.31 | aitor | so, the hwdb.squashfs file doesn't need to be mounted during the installation of the package |
| 23:08.53 | aitor | i have to fix it in my packaging |
| 23:11.01 | *** join/#devuan rrq (~ralph@60-242-139-200.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:11.10 | aitor | i rectify: in *vdevd/helpers/LINUX/hwdb.sh* |
| 23:11.15 | aitor | rrq :) |
| 23:11.20 | aitor | you are australian |
| 23:11.37 | rrq | partly |
| 23:13.15 | aitor | and US? |
| 23:13.48 | rrq | and SE |
| 23:15.03 | rrq | is waking up, gradully :-) |
| 23:16.39 | aitor | excuse my ignorance: SE means sweeden? |
| 23:17.21 | rrq | true. maybe spelt slightly differently, but near enough ;-) |
| 23:18.29 | aitor | sweden :) |
| 23:19.51 | aitor | i tested fsmithred's vdev2 iso, and i like it |
| 23:19.59 | aitor | fsmithred: fred smith? |
| 23:20.34 | rrq | ... you're ever the curious, arn't you :-D |
| 23:22.08 | aitor | lol..., yes, i am |
| 23:23.03 | aitor | fsmithred adde an application for managing devices |
| 23:23.33 | aitor | it uses steve litt's pmount, i think |
| 23:23.40 | aitor | but i'm still not sure |
| 23:23.56 | aitor | if so, i'll use it in gnuinos too |
| 23:25.05 | aitor | today i removed all the server versions of gnuinos |
| 23:25.19 | aitor | i'll upload them again tomorrow |
| 23:25.48 | aitor | some bugs in the installers neede to be fixed |
| 23:26.00 | aitor | needed |
| 23:26.31 | aitor | i hurried uploading them, but they will work tomorrow |
| 23:27.01 | rrq | i'll try gnuinos as it arises; I didn't have any luck with fsmitred's iso in my qemu set ups. But I don't have the time to worry right now. |
| 23:29.58 | aitor | rrq: time to bed... see you :) |
| 23:30.11 | aitor | i'll follow your commit in git |
| 23:30.21 | aitor | and thanks for your work |
| 23:30.52 | rrq | nw. g'night |
| 23:30.54 | aitor | bye |
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