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| 02:26.47 | zyliwax | hi, i'm wondering if i can use a libre kernel with devuan |
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| 06:15.17 | freemangordon | parazyd: yes, there is a way, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/n900#Installing_Kubuntu_on_n900 (partition layout nad uboot section) |
| 06:15.21 | freemangordon | *and |
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| 06:18.43 | freemangordon | hmm, the provided uImage doesn't seem to boot, but that might be because I am doing something wrong. did you test that uImage? |
| 06:19.30 | hellekin | zyliwax: I guess you can get it yourself and compile it. When JESSIE is out, we'll start working on things we want, and Linux-libre is definitely one of them |
| 06:20.58 | zyliwax | hellekin: thanks for the response, i'm already managing the kernel manually for my gentoo system so that's no biggie for me |
| 06:22.08 | zyliwax | website says jessie is the current stable release? am i missing something here? |
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| 06:23.27 | freemangordon | parazyd: yep, something seems broken with that uImage, u-boot finds it when placed on the root of the either vfat or ext3 partition, loads it, but then the screen remains black. I'll try to find some time these days to play with it and see what happens. |
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| 06:36.17 | hellekin | zyliwax: it's still beta |
| 06:38.41 | zyliwax | capiche |
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| 07:28.34 | OtakuSenpai | what is devuan about? |
| 07:28.48 | OtakuSenpai | i see no activity here |
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| 07:32.26 | n4dir | http://devuan.org seems to explain pretty well what devuan is about. |
| 07:32.54 | n4dir | OtakuSenpai: ^^ |
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| 08:03.23 | parazyd | freemangordon: queried you, i think there is an unforseen typo in the build script: https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk/blob/master/boards/nokia-n900.sh#L80 |
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| 08:04.13 | parazyd | or maybe not :) anyway, let's see when you've time |
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| 09:06.34 | Gup | was thinking of upgrading devuan from jessie to ascii, but reading back on the irc logs it looks like its still a bit unstable? is that still true? |
| 09:07.18 | Gup | the packages i have installed from ascii with apt pinning have worked quite well, so i thought i'd take the plunge. maybe i should stick with a mix of repos like that for a while? |
| 09:11.01 | nextime | Gup: i'm on ceres, and it isn't unstable, but as out work actually is more focused on jessie and debian continue to add systemd dependencies, the risk on ascii and ceres is higher than in jessie |
| 09:11.23 | nextime | so, for what i can say it is actually stable and reliable, but do that at your own risk |
| 09:13.50 | Gup | hmm, i might go for it then, i've quite a minimal system |
| 09:15.01 | Gup | i've just changed jessie to ascii in apt sources and running dist-upgrade, is that a good method? |
| 09:20.37 | Gup | nextime, what happens if i try to install something depending on systemd in ascii, does it fail or will it pull in systemd? |
| 09:21.28 | nextime | Gup: it will fail dependency as systemd isn't available |
| 09:21.43 | Gup | thats fine :) |
| 09:22.09 | nextime | but this is true for systemd and systemd-sysv packages |
| 09:22.41 | nextime | other systemd related things are not (yet) blacklisted |
| 09:26.00 | Gup | well other than libsystemd0 which i already have, there is no other mention in the apt output for the upgrade, so i guess i'm good? |
| 09:28.11 | Gup | all package upgrades resolved and apt is downloading |
| 09:29.08 | Gup | any point pasting my apt ouput, would someone be able to tell if i'm doing something silly!? |
| 09:29.27 | Gup | an hour until download completes and the fun begins ;) |
| 09:33.07 | Gup | http://pastebin.com/9ppP3n9t |
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| 09:43.38 | n4dir | Gup: upgrading to testing/ascii went pretty south here. Its been a few days, and i can't say more. |
| 09:43.48 | n4dir | Just in case it doesn't work for you: you are not the only one |
| 09:45.54 | tox_ | Hello :D |
| 09:46.20 | tox_ | I have a vm with UML which runs Devuan Jessie |
| 09:46.33 | tox_ | I've tried to upgrade to ascii but it failed dependencies too |
| 09:48.49 | Gup | ohh :/ |
| 09:50.34 | Gup | nextime, did you upgrade from jessie or is your ceres a fresh install? |
| 09:50.35 | n4dir | i can sure say that startx failed working, even though i installed libsystemd0. |
| 09:51.23 | Gup | sounds like i might be in for an interesting time then |
| 09:51.54 | Gup | if it fails i might try fresh ascii install, if that fails i guess its back to jessie |
| 09:53.11 | n4dir | good luck anyway. And it would be nice to hear infos |
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| 09:54.17 | Gup | thanks :) i'll let y'all know how it goes |
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| 12:27.50 | tox_ | I've tried upgrading my vm from jessie to ascii, and this time the upgrade was successful |
| 12:28.22 | tox_ | But, it left the package "gnome-keyring", it's important or I can delete it? |
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| 12:38.37 | fsmithred | tox_, you could try 'aptitude -s remove gnome-keyring' and it'll tell you what else it wants to remove. |
| 12:43.41 | fsmithred | on jessie, I've got libgnome-keyring-common and libgnome-keyring0, but not gnome-keyring. Everything seems to be ok. |
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| 14:22.16 | Vall | Hello everyone. I just want to report that I'm completing 2 weeks of test-running a Devuan Jessie 1.0-Beta VM here in a production-like environment. This VM is completing now 2 weeks of pretty intensive use (CPU and I/O, both disk and network), and performance and stability have both been great. |
| 14:22.41 | Vall | So thanks everyone who answered my questions here, and also everyone who worked to make Devuan the great distro it already is |
| 14:24.44 | appleshampoo | woohoo |
| 14:24.55 | appleshampoo | round of shots for everyone- |
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| 14:26.44 | Vall | appleshampoo: I wouldn't shot anyone, on the contrary, I'm quite grateful ;-) |
| 14:27.13 | appleshampoo | s/shots/celebratory drink of your choice/ |
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| 14:28.10 | nextime | lol |
| 14:28.54 | nextime | funny misunderstanding between "shot" meaning a drink and shot as a firearm shot :) |
| 14:30.08 | appleshampoo | yep |
| 14:30.30 | appleshampoo | good for me to get out of my native English bubble every once in a while :) |
| 14:36.20 | nextime | appleshampoo: well, shot is used in other languages too with the same meaning |
| 14:36.48 | nextime | even in italian many people use "shot" referring to something to drink to celebrate anything |
| 14:37.30 | nextime | or even "shottino" ( something like "little shot" ) to point to things like grappa or other super alchoolics |
| 14:39.25 | Vall | nextime: lol yeah ;-) |
| 14:39.33 | Vall | appleshampoo: pun intended ;-) |
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| 14:40.27 | Vall | Anyone here can comment on the current timeline for a non-beta Devuan? |
| 14:47.00 | nextime | vall: the most blocking issue is... me |
| 14:47.20 | Vall | nextime: why? out of time or motivation? |
| 14:47.23 | nextime | as i need to put amprolla2 in production before to going to rc and then to stable |
| 14:47.38 | Vall | ah |
| 14:47.38 | nextime | i'm working on it, but slowly |
| 14:48.11 | Vall | OK ;-) |
| 14:48.17 | Vall | Thanks for your service, nextime |
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| 14:48.42 | nextime | anyway, 5:1 bet that we will have an RC release before xmas |
| 14:48.52 | Vall | Old-time, crusty VUAs like myself really appreciate Devuan |
| 14:49.09 | Vall | Christimas would be great |
| 14:49.49 | Vall | Devuan is my best bet so far as to staying with Linux instead of moving to one of the BSDs |
| 14:50.04 | Vall | No way I'm going to run systemd in any of my systems... |
| 14:50.58 | nextime | Vall: mine too, and i can for sure say that is the same for many others |
| 14:51.09 | nextime | this is why we started devuan :) |
| 14:51.17 | Vall | nextime: sure thing. |
| 14:51.19 | Vall | sighs |
| 14:51.35 | Vall | I wish I could donate effort to Devuan, you know, like you are doing. |
| 14:51.59 | Vall | Actually I've some experience with C and system programming on Unix-like systems |
| 14:52.20 | Vall | But I'm graduating from the University this semester, so no way :-/ |
| 14:52.21 | nextime | Vall: i'm not donating anything, i'm doing what i think is the best FOR ME. Incidentally is good also for other people :) |
| 14:53.18 | Vall | nextime: I understand ;-) but don't shortsell yourself, you could be doing it anyway and not releasing it, or releasing it but not hanging around in IRC to help folks like me get things working |
| 14:53.28 | Vall | so again, your efforts are much appreciated |
| 14:53.40 | Vall | It |
| 14:53.59 | Vall | er, it's a sure bet I will be running Devuan on all my servers here |
| 14:54.22 | nextime | Vall: : debian and the open source/free software in general has done a lot for me in so many years, what i'm doing is just give back a little bit of that :) |
| 14:54.36 | Vall | Oh man, don't get me started |
| 14:54.45 | Vall | OSS has changed my life |
| 14:55.50 | Vall | Not Debian particularly, until now... I've been running various forms of RedHat since 1994 until RH started pushing systemd down our throats |
| 14:56.21 | Vall | I actually like RPM much better than DEB as a developer/maintainer of a number of RPMs for my servers. |
| 14:56.42 | Vall | I tried doing the same with DEB packages but RPM was so much more convenient to work with |
| 14:57.24 | Vall | Well, goodbye RPM and hello DEB... abandoning RPM convenience is a very small price to pay to avoid systemd |
| 14:58.47 | Vall | Most of my systems are RHEL6 right now... almost all servers. and I have a couple of Linux Mint desktops, therefore my interest in something like Mint LMDE on top of Devuan instead of Debian |
| 15:06.02 | Vall | brb |
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| 16:22.40 | Gup | ascii upgrade went fine :) I saw a couple of dependency errors fly past but not sure what they really were, should have logged it |
| 16:23.35 | Gup | rebooted fine, all the latest packages i need now |
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| 17:29.46 | hellekin | My laptop is regularly (or randomly?) checking my devices, at least the CD reader. That's annoying. Does anyone know why it would do that, and how to stop it from doing so? |
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| 17:35.53 | golinux | And I keep losing the XScreenSaver daemon. |
| 17:36.08 | golinux | Here's the message: |
| 17:36.15 | golinux | The XScreenSaver daemon doesn't seem to be running |
| 17:36.15 | golinux | on display ":0.0". Launch it now? |
| 17:36.37 | golinux | This just started after last round of updates . . . |
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| 17:54.30 | hellekin | and Icedove crashes randomly. Dammit, I'm moving back to Mutt. Jaromail FTW. |
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| 18:18.34 | Leander256 | icedove has been crashing on my machines for the past two months, no idea what's going on |
| 18:18.52 | Leander256 | but apparently they have the same problem on debian, so it's not a devuan bug |
| 18:26.13 | detha | slightly more than 2 months, but yes. it crashes at odd times, and gets confused between imap folders. |
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| 18:29.44 | nemo | So. I'm about to put some linux on my father in law's computer |
| 18:30.03 | nemo | my reflex would be Ubuntu 'cause it is common, widely supported and one of the more idiot proof distros out there |
| 18:30.13 | nemo | On the other hand, on any machine of mine, systemd will not be present. |
| 18:30.38 | nemo | So... I was wondering. How is devuan doing these days? Is it active? I notice that it is still beta |
| 18:30.53 | nemo | would you recommend it for a noob's machine? or too risky? |
| 18:31.45 | Lydia_K | If you are comfortable with debian proper them you will be fine with devuan |
| 18:32.07 | nemo | eh. reasonably comfortable, although I'm more familiar w/ mint, ubuntu and gentoo |
| 18:32.15 | nemo | but, eh, the first 2 are just derivations of the parent |
| 18:32.22 | Lydia_K | Right. |
| 18:32.45 | Lydia_K | Why not install it in a VM or something and see how you feel about setting up your desktop there before you commit to putting it on hardware? |
| 18:33.17 | nemo | Lydia_K: short on time ⺠|
| 18:33.28 | nemo | I've committed to providing him this laptop which I want to dual boot |
| 18:33.34 | nemo | kinda need to get it setup this afternoon |
| 18:33.59 | nemo | I'm most concerned w/ whether devuan seems to have staying power, and, well, that "beta" worries me a bit |
| 18:34.38 | debdog | in such cases I tend to stuck to stuff I am familiar with |
| 18:35.30 | debdog | *stick |
| 18:35.42 | Akuli | that beta was supposed to be removed a few months ago :) |
| 18:36.07 | Akuli | devuan is pretty stable anyway |
| 18:36.38 | Lydia_K | It's really just debian proper with sysvinit instead of systemd |
| 18:36.49 | Lydia_K | and yes, devuan will be around for a long while, I'm sure of that. |
| 18:37.42 | Lydia_K | Unless Debian suddenly switches to OpenRC and swears they will never go systemd again |
| 18:38.06 | Lydia_K | but they are pretty committed for the moment, they are hitching their ride to the Redhat train |
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| 18:42.25 | Akuli | somehow systemd, gnome 3, gtk 3 and redhat seem to be really tightly connected projects |
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| 18:42.54 | Lydia_K | The might as well be one big project |
| 18:43.01 | Lydia_K | the Redhat OS stack |
| 18:43.15 | Lydia_K | Now with more lock in! |
| 18:43.29 | Akuli | it's funny how gnome "developers" think that "integration with systemd" is a good thing |
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| 18:44.15 | Akuli | i think that a desktop environment should have nothing to do with an init daemon |
| 18:45.00 | Lydia_K | See, that's where you are wrong, systemd isn't an init daemon, it's a "Core OS toolkit" so of course the GUI should be built into the core OS tools! |
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| 18:46.52 | Leander256 | devuan stable is fine, but unstable/testing, we're not quite there yet, right? |
| 18:47.55 | Akuli | Lydia_K, yeah... it's not |
| 18:48.28 | Akuli | windows has the gui built-in :) safe mode with command prompt opens a command prompt window |
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| 18:49.06 | Akuli | maybe systemd/gnome/redhat/gtk is trying to turn into windows? :D |
| 18:49.16 | Lydia_K | But why wouldn't you want your GUI components to be able to take down PID1? Wouldn't that be a great feature!? |
| 18:49.33 | TwistedFate | It really pains me that after like 2 years, we still don't have a proper distro that is free of systemd :( |
| 18:49.37 | Akuli | that's what i hate about systemd |
| 18:49.46 | Lydia_K | It really is, it's becoming the "explorer shell" of linux |
| 18:49.49 | Akuli | the whole idea of how more features is better |
| 18:50.22 | Akuli | and how everything should be one big thing instead of separate, simple pieces |
| 18:50.48 | hellekin | TwistedFate: Slackware? |
| 18:51.25 | TwistedFate | eh, sorry, what i wanted to say is a proper distro that is not too difficult to install and maintain |
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| 18:51.42 | Akuli | oh there we go.. i was going to guess gentoo :D |
| 18:52.05 | Akuli | pclinuxos? |
| 18:52.05 | Akuli | it has very little users and a tiny irc channel, but anyway |
| 18:52.20 | Leander256 | TwistedFate: what makes Devuan difficult to install/maintain in your opinion? |
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| 18:52.59 | TwistedFate | Leander256, i didnt mean devuan, its ok i guess, just not finished. |
| 18:53.16 | Akuli | i think devuan is ready for production |
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| 18:53.23 | Leander256 | well, if you're rolling in stable, it's totally ready |
| 18:53.48 | TwistedFate | well i need latest kernel and mesa for my card :/ |
| 18:54.54 | Leander256 | I have unstable on a desktop and a laptop, and so far so good |
| 18:54.55 | Akuli | then download and build the latest kernel? |
| 18:55.23 | Akuli | as far as i know building your own kernel is pretty straightforward |
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| 18:58.07 | Leander256 | using a custom mesa is a bit more involved though |
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| 18:59.43 | TwistedFate | I wonder if there is a distro that provides bleeding edge mesa |
| 19:00.06 | Lydia_K | Gentoo? |
| 19:00.18 | Lydia_K | Why, it'll even do the bleeding for you! |
| 19:00.26 | MinceR | lol |
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| 19:00.32 | TwistedFate | Oh, no I would do the bleeding. |
| 19:00.38 | TwistedFate | Tried it once, it was a freaking hell. |
| 19:00.42 | MinceR | "if i want cutting edge, i'll buy a sword. if i want bleeding edge, i'll use it." |
| 19:00.47 | Lydia_K | I was a gentoo user for many years |
| 19:00.55 | Lydia_K | I still kinda love it. |
| 19:01.16 | TwistedFate | When I did my first Gentoo install, I got so depressed. |
| 19:02.52 | TwistedFate | After that, maintaining it became hell so I dropped it. |
| 19:03.47 | MinceR | i was for a while, too |
| 19:04.49 | Lydia_K | After Daniel Robbins left their motto became "It compiles for me!" and stability plummeted. |
| 19:05.02 | Lydia_K | I hear it got better again, but I've net really messed with it in a while. |
| 19:05.27 | TwistedFate | I actually used Daniel's Funtoo. |
| 19:05.46 | appleshampoo | I also miss Gentoo sometimes |
| 19:05.59 | appleshampoo | had a pretty sweet distcc setup with a shared portage and package cache over NFS back in the day |
| 19:06.04 | appleshampoo | to no real purpose...just dorking around |
| 19:06.24 | Lydia_K | It was fun stuff :) |
| 19:06.32 | Leander256 | the biggest problem after Daniel left was devs fighting all the time |
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| 19:13.41 | nemo | TwistedFate: proper distro? Do you mean you guys? 'cause there are other proper distros |
| 19:13.49 | nemo | TwistedFate: slack, and gentoo as noted |
| 19:14.30 | nemo | there's supposedly an arch fork too |
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| 19:15.14 | nemo | Lydia_K: I still have several gentoo machines |
| 19:15.29 | nemo | $ ls -lt /etc | tail -n1 |
| 19:15.29 | nemo | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Sep 11 2002 opt |
| 19:15.33 | nemo | about when I installed this one |
| 19:15.40 | nemo | maybe a month prior |
| 19:15.52 | nemo | it was a redhat and mandrake machine prior |
| 19:15.57 | nemo | copied gentoo on over it |
| 19:16.12 | nemo | still going strong 14 years later ⺠|
| 19:16.29 | nemo | Leander256: which debian is devuan stable based off of? |
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| 19:18.33 | Akuli | i think debian 8 |
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| 19:25.46 | nemo | Akuli: that's not bad |
| 19:25.51 | nemo | Akuli: alright. I'll give it a shot |
| 19:26.03 | nemo | 15:23 <@sheepluva> nemo: did they fix the cinnamon issue yet? |
| 19:26.11 | nemo | 15:23 <@nemo> sheepluva: I plan to put MATE on it anyway |
| 19:26.15 | nemo | 15:24 <@sheepluva> I'm not gonna use cinnamon myself either I think |
| 19:26.15 | nemo | 15:24 <@sheepluva> but was surprised that it was in a broken state heh |
| 19:26.25 | nemo | so. yeah. cinnamon is broken? |
| 19:26.36 | nemo | related to systemd being too deeply embedded? |
| 19:27.06 | Akuli | i guess so |
| 19:27.15 | Akuli | it is based on gnome 3 :) |
| 19:27.28 | Akuli | at least i think it is... |
| 19:28.49 | Leander256 | MATE is based on Gnome 2, and Cinnamon on Gnome 3, IIRC |
| 19:29.25 | Akuli | i think so too |
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| 19:31.45 | nemo | Akuli: gnome3 is heavily in the koolaid, so that seems logical |
| 19:31.55 | nemo | well, I tried my best to like gnome3, but it was too frustrating |
| 19:31.58 | nemo | gonna stick w/ what I know |
| 19:32.09 | nemo | â old fart |
| 19:32.28 | gci_admin | is an old fart too! :D |
| 19:34.00 | golinux | You really want to play the old fart game? |
| 19:34.06 | golinux | Bring it on! |
| 19:34.13 | Lydia_K | gnome3 is designed to appeal to the types who want lots of eye candy and few actual useful features. |
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| 19:46.49 | nemo | oh. another question before I install this |
| 19:47.09 | nemo | updates. is devuan basically going to automatically pick up upstream security fixes? |
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| 19:55.44 | Leander256 | nemo: yes |
| 20:00.38 | nemo | kk |
| 20:01.37 | nemo | hm 10GB is a bit much |
| 20:01.55 | nemo | I guess I have the space tho... |
| 20:02.14 | nemo | but fine |
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| 21:27.35 | golinux | hellekin: Regarding icedove crashes . . . just saw this thread on FDN:http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=128931 |
| 21:28.05 | golinux | Lat post points to this bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=510589 |
| 21:42.19 | hellekin | sounds like too many emails :| |
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