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| 04:50.52 | ryuujin | hi poettering |
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| 13:43.25 | hellekin | ryuujin: I guess you mean 'heil'. If that's the case, you can /join #debianfork, where some people will be more responsive to that kind of gratuitous provocation. |
| 13:44.00 | hellekin | ryuujin: if you really meant 'hi', then I must tell you Poettering has probably better venues to haunt than this channel. |
| 13:48.54 | KaiO^ | sdf |
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| 17:19.09 | Inocuous | https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet |
| 17:20.34 | furrywolf | I think hellekin said he's going to kick anyone who pastes that again. ) |
| 17:21.14 | Inocuous | I've never seen that link posted. |
| 17:21.19 | demure | maybe it should be added to the topic then "we've heard of the magical tweet" |
| 17:21.55 | furrywolf | lol |
| 17:22.29 | n4dir | short one: did anyone ever successfully run ascii or has heard of someone doing so? |
| 17:22.49 | furrywolf | I have ascii on my other laptop. |
| 17:22.57 | furrywolf | what is your specific problem? |
| 17:23.51 | n4dir | libsystemd0 get's installed, startx fails to start, upgrades ask for --fix-missing, webbrowser segfault, ... all kind of errors |
| 17:24.01 | n4dir | sometimes this ones, sometimes others ... |
| 17:24.24 | MinceR | "we've heard of the magical tweet. however, the guys at #debianfork haven't." |
| 17:24.48 | n4dir | what i sure don't get is how come libsystemd0 gets installed though *systemd* is pinned ... |
| 17:25.01 | furrywolf | yeah, libsystemd0 gets installed. but not systemd. X works fine, although I have a DM starting it, not using startx. firefox works fine, for the part of the definition of work that ever applies to firefox... |
| 17:25.10 | Inocuous | where has this link been posted so that it is such an annoyance that someone would be kicked for it? |
| 17:25.37 | Inocuous | I must be missing some excellent source somewhere. |
| 17:25.51 | furrywolf | a lot of problems depend on libsystemd0. ascii is actually behind jessie, in that jessie gets unsysmtemded packages before ascii does, from what I can figure out. |
| 17:25.56 | furrywolf | s/problems/programs |
| 17:25.56 | furrywolf | lol |
| 17:26.18 | n4dir | anyway: you use it daily, upgrade it regularly and it works? |
| 17:26.47 | furrywolf | I use it occasionally. I keep meaning to make it my main laptop, but laziness (and lack of time) results in my still using this one. |
| 17:27.12 | hellekin | furrywolf: I said we should have a bot that kicks people mentioning systemd to redirect them to #debianfork :) |
| 17:27.22 | hellekin | (afk) |
| 17:27.40 | furrywolf | yeah, and you said it when I asked for the blog link. :P |
| 17:28.08 | n4dir | hard to avoid mentioning libsystemd0 if it gets installed and one wants to ask how that comes ... |
| 17:29.37 | furrywolf | it's better than this laptop in every way... an i5-540m instead of a core2duo, a 1tb ssd instead of 60gb hdd, 8gb of ram instead of 3gb, 1920x1200 lcd instead of 1024x768, usb3 instead of 1.1,.... except this laptop is already set up exactly how I like it. |
| 17:30.42 | furrywolf | and so it gathers dust while I keep using this one. |
| 17:41.06 | n4dir | anyway: doesn't sound as if many would do it |
| 17:56.13 | fsmithred | hi n4dir |
| 17:56.26 | fsmithred | I'm in the middle of an upgrade from jessie to ascii |
| 17:56.47 | fsmithred | can't get x running even after installing libsystemd0 |
| 17:58.19 | n4dir | uhum. Thanks for that. |
| 17:58.28 | n4dir | I am on my way out, let's talk about this later. |
| 17:59.05 | n4dir | like said : i think it is a bug in one of the xorg packages. My way was to use stable in sources, remove xorg, install xorg from stable |
| 17:59.19 | n4dir | then use apt-mark to set *xorg* and *xserver* on hold |
| 18:00.04 | n4dir | why firefox and midori started to segfault is beyond me (not sure if it relates to the libsystemd0 dummy package or something else |
| 18:00.49 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 18:00.59 | fsmithred | later is good |
| 18:01.18 | fsmithred | I still have to kick it around some more |
| 18:01.41 | n4dir | try what i said to confirm it works, if you like. later |
| 18:01.44 | fsmithred | I tried editing Xwrapper.conf |
| 18:01.48 | fsmithred | didn't help |
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| 18:19.02 | fsmithred | furrywolf, which dm are you using in ascii? |
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| 18:43.35 | TwistedFate | Forgive me for intruding, I intend to learn Debian through "Debian Administrator Handbook" while using it on my machine. Is Devuan changed/different in some way that would render that more difficult or impossible to accomplish? |
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| 18:44.13 | OmegaPhil | Isnt that handbook pretty old? |
| 18:44.36 | TwistedFate | Old, but not obsolete. |
| 18:44.51 | OmegaPhil | Yeah, so you should be fine? |
| 18:44.56 | OmegaPhil | Devuan is a very recent thing |
| 18:47.34 | fsmithred | most of what's in the wheezy handbook should apply to devuan jessie |
| 18:47.45 | fsmithred | but I don't know how you'll know what's not the same |
| 18:47.49 | fsmithred | until you run into it |
| 18:51.22 | TwistedFate | Hmm, that will be tough since I know nothing yet. :) |
| 18:54.47 | TwistedFate | fsmithred, What are the known Devuan issues? |
| 18:54.59 | TwistedFate | The ones worth mentioning at least. |
| 18:55.03 | fsmithred | installer only does netinstall |
| 18:55.57 | fsmithred | installer has errors installing standard system utilities (I think) and you need to go back and repeat sections for it to complete |
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| 18:56.53 | fsmithred | there seem to be some delays in updates - some things are newer in debian than devuan for longer than people might like. |
| 18:57.15 | fsmithred | they're working on the infrastructure; don't know when that will be ready |
| 18:57.34 | TwistedFate | fsmithred, Oh dear.. Well that is a deal-breaker for me, since I probably would not be able to solve the installation issues..\ |
| 18:57.35 | fsmithred | mostly, everything works in jessie |
| 18:57.47 | fsmithred | I have an unofficial solution for you |
| 18:58.26 | fsmithred | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/unofficial_devuan_live/ |
| 18:58.59 | fsmithred | it's a live snapshot of a devuan beta install. bootable isos |
| 18:59.10 | TwistedFate | Ah, someone made a live ISO, nice. |
| 18:59.22 | TwistedFate | Is it rid of the installation issues that Devuan has? |
| 18:59.41 | fsmithred | yes, run 'refractainstaller' from a root terminal |
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| 19:00.12 | fsmithred | it's not as full-featured as the standard debian installer |
| 19:00.15 | fsmithred | no lvm or raid |
| 19:00.37 | fsmithred | no automatic partitioning |
| 19:00.55 | fsmithred | no network install |
| 19:01.03 | fsmithred | you get what is on the cd |
| 19:01.13 | fsmithred | actually, you get what is running |
| 19:01.36 | fsmithred | so if you make any changes in configs, (system or desktop) they get copied to the installation. |
| 19:02.34 | TwistedFate | Ah, well I never really knew how to do partitioning from CLI.. |
| 19:03.02 | fsmithred | can't recall if gparted is installed |
| 19:03.22 | fsmithred | if you're not short on RAM, run apt-get update and then install gparted if needed |
| 19:03.56 | TwistedFate | 8GB should suffice. |
| 19:04.05 | fsmithred | lol, yeah |
| 19:04.36 | fsmithred | I'm gonna check it. I've got it installed in virtualbox |
| 19:04.51 | TwistedFate | Thank you. |
| 19:06.12 | fsmithred | no gparted |
| 19:06.47 | fsmithred | so, either install it while running live, or use a different live CD or a different installation on the same computer to make the partition(s) |
| 19:07.07 | fsmithred | uh, you using uefi or bios? |
| 19:09.01 | TwistedFate | fsmithred, I have a motherboard with UEFI but I only activated/checked legacy options in it.. |
| 19:10.51 | fsmithred | ok |
| 19:10.53 | fsmithred | np |
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| 20:04.54 | greenjeans | afternoon folks! |
| 20:07.02 | greenjeans | anybody know if the coinor libraries on a devuan install are just there for Libreoffice? |
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| 20:09.01 | n4dir | aptitude why <package> lists why it is installed, but, iirc, not all reasons. There is a package like apt-listdeps or such, or rdepends or whatever. |
| 20:09.26 | n4dir | try something like "apt-cache search depends" or "apt-cache search apt depends" ... |
| 20:10.03 | greenjeans | thanks, trying to whittle down new version of project i'm working on |
| 20:10.09 | n4dir | uninstalling the lib will also tell you which ones depend on it :-) |
| 20:11.27 | greenjeans | packages are listed in Synaptic as autoremoveable, but I know for fact there is something in there probably not anything coinore related, but something that if you remove it it will bypass pkexec |
| 20:12.02 | n4dir | you could also use "deborphan --guess-all" , "aptitude purge ¨c" "apt-get clean" to get rid of unused stuff which uses space. removing uneeded locales might be an option too. |
| 20:12.47 | greenjeans | got most of that all done, down to 390 mb on the last iso I ran last night |
| 20:13.11 | n4dir | well: base of it is refracta, yes? it is set to not install recommends, which is .... a bit of a pain in the butt. I would change that. |
| 20:13.22 | n4dir | 390 sounds cool. |
| 20:14.30 | greenjeans | I'm using Refractasnapshot and Refracta installer to build it, but off of a stock devuan install, just whittling it down to only include utilities and mate desktop |
| 20:14.56 | greenjeans | preserving everything else that's default in devuan |
| 20:15.25 | n4dir | ah, ok. Then recommends should be fine |
| 20:16.28 | greenjeans | removing Libreoffice generated a ton of autoremoveable stuff, and some other stuff I took out did the same |
| 20:16.46 | n4dir | i guess so :-) |
| 20:17.12 | n4dir | wait, you installed devuan and during installation have choosen "desktop" ? |
| 20:17.36 | n4dir | if yes, and if you install without installing desktop, you won't have to remove stuff later .... |
| 20:19.00 | greenjeans | Not quite, what I did was a netinstall, and at the software select I unchecked everything but "mate desktop" and system utilities |
| 20:19.20 | greenjeans | but that still got me Libre, firefox, gimp etc. |
| 20:19.32 | n4dir | netinstall doesn't matter. It matters what you choose during installation. |
| 20:19.55 | n4dir | and choosing (*)desktop offers shitloads of stuff one doesn't want ... :-) |
| 20:20.10 | n4dir | though if you're down to 390 you are pretty fine |
| 20:20.50 | greenjeans | I got the first one down to 384, but it broke pkexec, but everything else works |
| 20:21.11 | greenjeans | 2nd version i'm doing now is solid so far, just fine-tuning now |
| 20:21.44 | greenjeans | and trying to narrow down what package I uninstalled that hosed pkexec |
| 20:22.32 | greenjeans | and checking on incidentals like the coinor libraries and if I can dump them safely |
| 20:23.00 | n4dir | yéah, i am reading the thread, but got no clue. |
| 20:23.25 | greenjeans | Got an issue with the power manager icon in the system tray too while i'm rolling here |
| 20:24.41 | greenjeans | little triangle now instead of changing icons, not a big deal that, but it's not updating the battery status during a session |
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| 20:26.33 | greenjeans | fsmithred are you around? |
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| 20:38.41 | greenjeans | guess not, posted question to the forum, small wicd deal with snapshot |
| 20:39.27 | greenjeans | anybody know if the multiple spell-checkers are really necessary? Aspell, Ispell, Hunspell all needed? |
| 20:39.36 | greenjeans | seems a little much, |
| 20:40.08 | greenjeans | the description of aspell even states it's supposed to be a complete drop-in replacement for ispell |
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| 20:45.49 | fsmithred | greenjeans, I don't know |
| 20:46.54 | greenjeans | about which? lol |
| 20:47.05 | fsmithred | multiple spellers |
| 20:47.13 | fsmithred | I think they all came in automatically |
| 20:47.30 | greenjeans | hmm, may have to test dump one |
| 20:47.41 | fsmithred | aptitude why <package> |
| 20:47.59 | greenjeans | check the question I just posted on the forum about wicd when you have a chance |
| 20:49.40 | greenjeans | new runs are turning out nice, about to do what might be a last run on the new one, added your lines to the script regarding etc/skel and will be trying that out later today |
| 20:50.11 | fsmithred | all automatically installed, and they blame it on abiword |
| 20:51.35 | greenjeans | probably something similar here, they had Libre writer and also pluma for text editing, they probably are set up to use different spell-checkers |
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| 20:55.21 | fsmithred | yes, that wicd config file should be excluded or removed |
| 20:55.39 | fsmithred | have to check to see how I did it with the other |
| 20:55.57 | fsmithred | I think it gets removed, not excluded |
| 20:56.01 | n4dir | fsmithred: like said: as far i can tell aptitude why lists one reason why a package is installed, but not all |
| 20:58.16 | fsmithred | mutt and xfce4-dict want ispell |
| 20:59.18 | fsmithred | just mutt is installed |
| 21:01.46 | greenjeans | pluma is using libenchant, which uses ispell i guess |
| 21:02.03 | greenjeans | I uninstalled mutt |
| 21:02.19 | greenjeans | lots of extra mail programs in there too |
| 21:02.29 | greenjeans | bsd-mailx |
| 21:02.33 | greenjeans | procmail |
| 21:02.38 | fsmithred | hunspell and ispell are not installed |
| 21:03.11 | fsmithred | one libhunsepell for iceweasel/ff |
| 21:03.46 | fsmithred | and myspell installed, either |
| 21:04.00 | fsmithred | I'm looking at amd64. Is i386 different? |
| 21:04.25 | greenjeans | hmmm....wonder if libenechant will switch to aspell for pluma? |
| 21:05.03 | greenjeans | I'm running on 32 in this partition, but all the stuff i'm working on right now is 64 |
| 21:07.20 | greenjeans | I can try an exclude on that wicd file and see if it gens a new one, hard sometimes on these things because I know you're using xfce and i'm not sure all what works differently in the two |
| 21:09.01 | fsmithred | no, add it to the script, around line 740 |
| 21:09.04 | fsmithred | rm -f"$work_dir"/myfs/etc/wicd/wireless-settings.conf |
| 21:09.16 | fsmithred | that way, if you want to keep the configs, the option to do that will work |
| 21:11.15 | fsmithred | make sure there's a space between -f and "$work_dir" |
| 21:12.41 | greenjeans | perfect, will do, sorry for making you work on a sunday lol |
| 21:15.28 | fsmithred | I've been messing with this stuff all day. |
| 21:16.22 | fsmithred | I really, really want to be done with jessie. |
| 21:16.39 | fsmithred | and you're helping me get it right. Thanks. |
| 21:16.46 | greenjeans | me too, so close to being done with a really nice iso |
| 21:17.36 | greenjeans | shoot, some days I think i'm a bigger bug than the ones I find |
| 21:18.00 | greenjeans | but I sure appreciate your help |
| 21:18.54 | greenjeans | i'll be looking to ascii next too, but got to get this done and a similar one in 32 bit first |
| 21:19.27 | greenjeans | and maybe one custom one |
| 21:20.06 | greenjeans | got rid of all the QT last night and everything still works |
| 21:20.36 | greenjeans | and 50 mb or so of nothing but stuff to enable viewing pdf's |
| 21:21.35 | fsmithred | I made a lean jessie install with icewm and few apps - 371mb snapshot |
| 21:21.52 | fsmithred | upgraded to ascii and the snapshot is now 711mb |
| 21:22.06 | fsmithred | some of that is the extra kernel, but I don't know what the rest is. |
| 21:22.23 | greenjeans | if you're looking for extra space there's so many little boogers in there, /usr/share/aptitude has a ton of translations |
| 21:22.50 | greenjeans | yikes, your 371 grew to 711 just on upgrade? |
| 21:22.55 | *** join/#devuan BambooCactus (~BambooCac@c-67-160-173-132.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:23.00 | fsmithred | yeah, I should run localepurge - that might be a lot of it |
| 21:23.05 | fsmithred | yes |
| 21:23.10 | fsmithred | those numbers are right |
| 21:23.46 | greenjeans | usr/share/docs is always huge |
| 21:24.32 | greenjeans | 371 is nice, wouldn't mind test-driving that one |
| 21:24.56 | greenjeans | been thinking of a cli-only ever since you mentioned it |
| 21:25.27 | greenjeans | wonder if you can do a netinstall and uncheck all the boxes but system utilities and get a cli version? |
| 21:26.41 | fsmithred | that's how I started |
| 21:26.48 | fsmithred | that's how I usually start a build |
| 21:29.28 | greenjeans | I like de-constructing to build, reverse-engineering sorta |
| 21:30.19 | greenjeans | but getting the urge now to try building from the ground up....just not like full-on gentoo building, lol |
| 21:34.52 | *** join/#devuan shana_ (~shana@104.240.17.110) |
| 21:35.17 | greenjeans | hey pookie |
| 21:35.38 | shana_ | hello |
| 21:35.52 | shana_ | aint this just all modern and shit |
| 21:37.01 | greenjeans | lol, wrong channel ma'am |
| 21:41.32 | fsmithred | oh, I solved the size problem - I didn't use my custom config file, and the default does not use xz compression |
| 21:44.52 | greenjeans | nice, yeah I ran a gzip the other day by mistake and it was much larger, but only took like ten minutes as opposed to xz's 45 minutes |
| 21:47.39 | *** part/#devuan penelopa (~penelopa@unstable.nl) |
| 21:54.04 | fsmithred | ok, 545mb now, after localepurge and xz compression |
| 21:54.50 | fsmithred | I did have to add a display manager (wdm) otherwise X won't start |
| 21:55.14 | fsmithred | and I had to run 'xhost +' for root to be able to run the gui snapshotter |
| 21:55.44 | greenjeans | did you use the -Xbcj x86 option for xz? |
| 21:55.49 | fsmithred | no |
| 21:56.00 | greenjeans | helps a little |
| 21:56.34 | greenjeans | still don't think it's using xz at full potential, but that's a squashfs issue |
| 21:56.36 | fsmithred | I will add that as an optional option. Yeah, I think I knocked about 15-20mb off a CD size iso |
| 21:56.50 | fsmithred | brb |
| 21:56.57 | greenjeans | gets me about 3-4% extra reduction |
| 22:02.02 | fsmithred | so, if I run xhost + right before I make the snapshot, does that carry over into the iso? |
| 22:02.25 | fsmithred | kcuf |
| 22:08.05 | fsmithred | it does not carry over. |
| 22:08.52 | greenjeans | coinor libraries are most definitely for Libreoffice |
| 22:09.10 | greenjeans | funny they don't list them as a depend on their wiki, but debian does |
| 22:09.30 | greenjeans | and they will be going bye-bye |
| 22:09.57 | greenjeans | minimal livecd goodness coming up |
| 22:12.14 | greenjeans | power management systray icon not updating- upstream issue I guess, not sure I can fix |
| 22:17.59 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~randyg@70.6.154.119) |
| 22:26.51 | greenjeans | Libreoffice still screwing up menu, hoping this gets fixed at some point by libre folks |
| 22:27.15 | greenjeans | until then doesn't seem good to include it by default |
| 22:29.56 | fsmithred | I install libre afterward |
| 22:30.00 | fsmithred | same with vlc |
| 22:30.12 | fsmithred | they're both to big for a live CD |
| 22:31.34 | fsmithred | 515mb after running bleachbit and removing extra locale files |
| 22:34.59 | *** join/#devuan blueness_ (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
| 22:35.39 | greenjeans | don't know if it's the same in xfce, but in mate trying to open menu causes it to hang, because libre apparently doesn't have right icons and default behavior is to try and load the svg's |
| 22:36.07 | greenjeans | been that way at least since debian cae out with 8.0 |
| 22:36.17 | greenjeans | *came* |
| 22:37.36 | greenjeans | vlc drags in some QT too |
| 22:38.12 | greenjeans | everything works on vlc, but in my experience mplayer works better at high-def stuff |
| 22:38.36 | greenjeans | gnome-mplayer doesn't get much love unfortunately |
| 22:38.48 | fsmithred | we dumped that in jessie |
| 22:38.55 | greenjeans | and smplayer drags in the whole qt shebang to work |
| 22:38.56 | fsmithred | using mpv now |
| 22:39.24 | fsmithred | vlc also likes to keep running sometimes after you close it |
| 22:39.36 | fsmithred | I made a panel button just to kill vlc |
| 22:40.08 | greenjeans | it's gotten pretty ubiquitous in linux, does everything I guess |
| 22:40.26 | greenjeans | even works the webcam on my machine, record video etc. |
| 22:41.48 | greenjeans | i keep the kill applet for everything on my panel, lol |
| 22:42.09 | greenjeans | nice little panel button, always like that about gnome 2/mate |
| 22:42.40 | greenjeans | 67th@m/ |
| 22:43.03 | greenjeans | dangit, sorry. spilled coffee, brb |
| 22:43.42 | *** join/#devuan os|t0 (~freenode@2001:388:e001:900::deb8) |
| 22:54.05 | greenjeans | hey, found my old copy of the Oxy-2-zen icons, need to upload some of this old stuff to site, some is pretty neat |
| 22:54.43 | greenjeans | made a graphics section, gonna add some of my old artwork, and start making some new stuff for devuan |
| 22:57.11 | *** join/#devuan Oksana (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide) |
| 22:59.35 | TwistedFate | fsmithred, How come no one from Devuan made an updated ISO with live session? |
| 23:05.28 | greenjeans | http://www.mrgreenjeans.net/linux/graphics/Oxy2-ZEN.tar.gz |
| 23:05.56 | greenjeans | black file/folder icons |
| 23:06.30 | greenjeans | goes well with dark themes |
| 23:07.22 | fsmithred | there are problems adapting live-build and the installer to get a proper devuan live |
| 23:07.29 | fsmithred | people are working on it |
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| 23:08.16 | greenjeans | I have a working devuan livecd, but it's minimal, will have another up in a day or so that works even better |
| 23:16.19 | fsmithred | need to get some food |
| 23:16.23 | fsmithred | back in awhile |
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