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| 16:58.19 | lkcl | yaaaaa.... trinity desktop 14 armhf currently installing on an EOMA68-A20 computer card... packages all meshed, no conflicts.... |
| 16:58.39 | lkcl | a 350mb download, 750mb unpacked, still a way to go.... |
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| 17:59.29 | lkcl | oo installed, just starting up... |
| 17:59.42 | dimkr | hey lkcl |
| 18:00.07 | dimkr | great work with eoma86 |
| 18:00.50 | lkcl | dimkr: thx |
| 18:02.58 | lkcl | ooo trinity armhf is working under devuan yippee! |
| 18:03.22 | dimkr | retro \m/ |
| 18:04.00 | dimkr | btw, is the stock OS of the Devuan flavor built with the arm-sdk? |
| 18:04.39 | dimkr | because if yes, it would be wise to include open-at9k-htc-firmware |
| 18:05.25 | lkcl | arm-sdk? no idea.. but if you mean "can you do apt-get install build-essential" and everything else the answer's yes |
| 18:05.34 | lkcl | dimkr: that got installed by default |
| 18:05.46 | dimkr | lkcl, is that the open firmware? |
| 18:06.17 | lkcl | dimkr: yyep. |
| 18:06.21 | dimkr | ack |
| 18:06.54 | lkcl | dpkg -l | grep ath9k.... nothing hm |
| 18:06.57 | dimkr | so I guess you installed Devuan manually and this installed copy is dd'ed to all boards purchased |
| 18:07.18 | lkcl | dimkr: yeah it is. i'm just getting everyhing ready that i can |
| 18:07.29 | dimkr | lkcl, https://packages.debian.org/jessie/firmware-atheros |
| 18:07.43 | dimkr | this one is the non-free firmware |
| 18:07.52 | lkcl | dimkr: ack. i wonder why that's not included... ohh that'll be why |
| 18:08.19 | dimkr | you want this: https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k_htc/open_firmware |
| 18:08.19 | lkcl | just doing apt-get update |
| 18:08.23 | dimkr | that's the open firmware |
| 18:08.28 | dimkr | but it isn't packaged in Debian |
| 18:08.35 | lkcl | i just installed linux-firmware-free |
| 18:08.58 | lkcl | dimkr: thinkpenguin is my sponsor, they sorted out atheros for the ath9k_htc stuff |
| 18:09.06 | lkcl | helped them walk through the process, took 2 years |
| 18:09.31 | dimkr | lkcl, /lib/firmware/htc_9271.fw is only part of firmware-atheros |
| 18:09.44 | lkcl | dimkr: yep understood. just getting it now |
| 18:09.55 | lkcl | trundle, trundle... |
| 18:09.56 | dimkr | I have a prebuilt binary |
| 18:10.23 | dimkr | https://git.devuan.org/dimkr/arm-sdk/blob/aac794d11ff0aa40b5969e0c416f250a8b068012/arm/extra/ath9k_htc/htc_9271.fw |
| 18:10.26 | lkcl | yeahyeah |
| 18:10.38 | dimkr | although I don't expect you to trust me :) |
| 18:10.47 | lkcl | what the heck _is_ the arm sdk, anyway? |
| 18:10.48 | dimkr | binary firmware files, after all |
| 18:10.53 | lkcl | :) |
| 18:10.55 | dimkr | it's a tool for toasting Devuan images |
| 18:11.00 | lkcl | ohh ok. |
| 18:11.05 | dimkr | that can be dd'ed to storage of various ARM chips |
| 18:11.15 | dimkr | including the C201 supported by Libreboot |
| 18:11.23 | lkcl | *sigh* yeah the only image that should be toasted is a debian-installer netboot |
| 18:11.42 | dimkr | well, ARM is a special case |
| 18:11.46 | lkcl | otherwise you're making decisions for people that are totally inappropriate |
| 18:11.52 | dimkr | because of the weird partiitoning layout, targeted kernel, etc' |
| 18:11.57 | lkcl | i've dealt with this since around 2010. |
| 18:12.19 | lkcl | look up the gpl-violating ct-pc89e - frans pop made a special version of debian-installer for us |
| 18:12.24 | lkcl | he was the lead developer at the time |
| 18:12.59 | lkcl | that was all that was needed. we dropped that onto a micro-sd card, booted up from it, and it *was* the equivalent of an ISO image |
| 18:13.22 | lkcl | left the NAND and USB drives alone: we could then partition and format them as *WE* saw fit. |
| 18:13.25 | lkcl | install lvm |
| 18:13.32 | lkcl | encrypted rootfs. |
| 18:13.38 | lkcl | set our *OWN* password.... |
| 18:13.56 | lkcl | not have *SOMEBODY ELSE's* decisions made for us that you then couldn't actually even undo... |
| 18:13.58 | dimkr | I agree, disk images instead of installation images is not a perfect solution |
| 18:14.19 | dimkr | but it's better than what other distros offer |
| 18:14.45 | dimkr | in the case of the C201, Devuan is the only distro that supports it out of the box without a long, manual installation procedure |
| 18:14.58 | lkcl | oh - and what about when the image size is greater than the available micro-sd or other storage size?? |
| 18:15.10 | dimkr | storage size is always the same |
| 18:15.17 | dimkr | all C201s ship with the same 16GB SSD |
| 18:15.33 | dimkr | and images are trimmed to 2GB/4GB, partitions can be expanded if needed |
| 18:15.42 | lkcl | so what if somebody shipped with a 1gb NAND partition? |
| 18:15.55 | dimkr | you can toast a special image for that use case |
| 18:15.56 | lkcl | there's hardware out there that's perfectly useable |
| 18:16.13 | dimkr | again, this isn't perfect |
| 18:16.15 | lkcl | .... but.... that requires somebody to do all that work |
| 18:16.32 | lkcl | if you set up a debian-installer image, all those problems are gone. |
| 18:16.41 | dimkr | nope |
| 18:16.44 | lkcl | i've written about this at some length. |
| 18:16.49 | dimkr | it needs support for cgpt, for example |
| 18:16.55 | lkcl | ok if it's done _properly_... :) |
| 18:16.58 | lkcl | what's cgpt? |
| 18:17.00 | dimkr | well, of course |
| 18:17.03 | lkcl | goes to look that up.. |
| 18:17.08 | dimkr | cgpt is the Chrome OS GPT partitioning tool |
| 18:17.35 | dimkr | depthcharge (the Coreboot/Libreboot payload) looks for a certain partitioning scheme |
| 18:17.42 | lkcl | ??!?! |
| 18:18.00 | lkcl | okay... right... bleuch. |
| 18:18.16 | dimkr | of course, we can patch it to make it look for a x86-like partitioning scheme, with /boot/vmlinuz, etc' |
| 18:18.49 | dimkr | anyway, "doing things right" on ARM is costly |
| 18:19.17 | lkcl | sounds like fun... doesn't sound like something that isn't resolvable.. if nothing else by dropping a copy of debian-installer into a partition, which then copies itself into RAM, sets up RAMdisks, unmounts the partition and then runs the standard debian-installer procedures from there |
| 18:19.43 | dimkr | just a matter of time and working hands, sure |
| 18:19.51 | lkcl | yehhhh.... tell me about it.... |
| 18:20.00 | lkcl | :) |
| 18:20.03 | dimkr | :) |
| 18:20.08 | dimkr | that's the free software world |
| 18:20.10 | dimkr | :D |
| 18:20.38 | lkcl | y'know.... i have a theory / hypothesis that i'm working on / testing, which is that "when money gets dropped onto software libre it all goes to shit" |
| 18:21.10 | lkcl | currently in support of this hypothesis: redhat, canonical, KDE (with the $10m EU grant)... |
| 18:21.20 | dimkr | btw, any idea about audio latency issues with the A20? |
| 18:21.30 | lkcl | HDMI audio will be fine |
| 18:21.32 | dimkr | I'm working on a free hardware device for music education |
| 18:21.44 | dimkr | I'd like to develop a prototype on top of your creation |
| 18:21.50 | lkcl | USB audio you get "the usual" kinds of latency associated with usb audio. |
| 18:21.51 | lkcl | cool! |
| 18:21.54 | dimkr | the main requirement is audio latency in the ms range |
| 18:22.08 | dimkr | and that includes input, processing and output |
| 18:22.19 | lkcl | well... do you have a cubieboard or anything else around with an A20 processor? bananapi or anything? |
| 18:22.35 | dimkr | nope, waiting for my next salary to land so I can support you :) |
| 18:22.42 | dimkr | got an old rpi1 |
| 18:23.03 | lkcl | if you get a CM108AH Usb dongle - they're available from thinkpenguin and also from... who is it... |
| 18:23.07 | lkcl | plugable.com |
| 18:23.19 | lkcl | or you can pick them up on amazon for below $5 |
| 18:23.25 | lkcl | ahh :) |
| 18:23.44 | lkcl | hmmm 700mhz ARM11... not gonna cut it, but would do as a worst-case demo |
| 18:24.00 | dimkr | yep |
| 18:24.12 | dimkr | if thinks work right, I know for sure that even low-end ARMv7 is good enough |
| 18:24.19 | dimkr | *things |
| 18:24.41 | dimkr | but it it's too slow, I don't know how much CPU power I need |
| 18:25.11 | lkcl | well let me know which devuan packages i can install and i'll try it out |
| 18:25.49 | dimkr | got some development to do first :) |
| 18:25.53 | lkcl | ahh ok :) |
| 18:25.56 | dimkr | it's still in the POC stage |
| 18:26.11 | lkcl | well keep in touch, join the arm-netbook mailing list, best way |
| 18:26.18 | dimkr | I have several problems in the area of physics, besides the software part |
| 18:26.32 | lkcl | raises eyebrows @ the physics bit.... |
| 18:27.24 | dimkr | yeah, sensitive sensors with realtime latency |
| 18:27.55 | dimkr | and the entire thing must be sold at <= $10 if I want this to make sense |
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| 18:31.30 | muep | my impression is that the rpi1 CPU is not outrageously faster than a slow-clock Cortex-A7 |
| 18:31.59 | lkcl | ARM11 is approx 2.5 times slower than Cortex A8 and A7 |
| 18:32.19 | muep | at least A7 is set up with a quite large range of clocks |
| 18:32.39 | muep | with what benchmark do you get the 2.5x measure? |
| 18:34.23 | lkcl | muep: just a number i heard. |
| 18:34.51 | lkcl | of course it doesn't help that data transfer rates are still around the same (slowww) etc. etc. |
| 18:34.54 | muep | in my experience, at least a cortex-a8 and the rpi1 were quite close |
| 18:34.58 | dimkr | who knows, maybe an Atmel CPU is enough for my needs |
| 18:35.22 | muep | in a quite floating-point intensive thing I was writing |
| 18:35.27 | lkcl | dimkr: you mean the Cortex A5 one that they're doing? |
| 18:35.48 | dimkr | all I need is to receives samples from a sensor, do some processing and send them over USB |
| 18:36.00 | dimkr | lkcl, nope - Arduino's controller |
| 18:36.05 | lkcl | dimkr: i do recall someone investigating audio for REALLY heavy-duty audio and he said that latency on ARM killed it |
| 18:36.12 | lkcl | dimkr: ok so really quite simple then. |
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| 18:36.24 | dimkr | yep |
| 18:36.34 | dimkr | wish I had some numbers to work with |
| 18:36.48 | dimkr | or any general idea how this should be implemented in hardware |
| 18:38.34 | lkcl | dimkr: write it out in a block diagram, join arm-netbooks, send a link to a URL online of the image. |
| 18:38.43 | lkcl | we'll take a look |
| 18:39.57 | dimkr | lkcl, I'm not a hardware guy |
| 18:40.18 | muep | hm, the cubietruck I have here (dual-core Cortex-A7) seems indeed roughly twice as fast as rpi1 on a trivial test that adds floats together |
| 18:40.21 | dimkr | but I'm very experienced with C, incl. development of scalalbe realtime stuff |
| 18:40.25 | dimkr | *scalable |
| 18:40.25 | lkcl | dimkr: block diagram. you know what sensor you want. you know it has to have audio. |
| 18:40.44 | lkcl | dimkr: i meant *SIMPLE* block diagram. square. with a sensor. |
| 18:40.53 | dimkr | lol |
| 18:40.54 | lkcl | dimkr: we can fill in the details from that. |
| 18:41.19 | lkcl | it'll be pretty obvious and straightforward once you get down to it |
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| 22:10.02 | Centurion_Dan | o/ |
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| 22:16.38 | gci_admin | \o |
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