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| 02:40.09 | iio7 | Is it me or is curl missing for php7? |
| 02:42.05 | furrywolf | fucking lawyers. got my new magic wand rechargable. the owner's manual for it is 15 pages. the first six full pages are warnings, and about 2/3rds of the area of the remaining pages is warnings. |
| 02:42.51 | furrywolf | iio7: I haven't used that recent of a version of php, but they often tend to add features to the language that were formerly provided by libraries, breaking your existing code... |
| 02:48.35 | iio7 | furrywolf, yes, but I checked, normally it's 'php5-curl', so I thought maybe it would just be in PHP7, but phpinfo() shows nothing, so I was wondering if it moved into another package. |
| 02:51.58 | furrywolf | what php 7 version? |
| 02:52.11 | furrywolf | 7.0.3 apparantly had curl issues according to google... |
| 02:54.41 | furrywolf | hrmm, testing has a php7.0-curl package |
| 02:55.59 | iio7 | Hmm, I was using backports. |
| 02:56.04 | furrywolf | I'm guessing you're using ascii? since I don't see a php7 anything in stable. |
| 02:56.04 | furrywolf | did you install php7.0-curl? |
| 02:56.09 | iio7 | So it hasn't been backported yet. |
| 02:56.37 | iio7 | We really need packages.devuan.org :) |
| 02:58.35 | furrywolf | try installing the package from testing and see if it installs or tries to drag in too much crap |
| 03:00.21 | iio7 | Yes, I'll do that. Thanks. |
| 03:02.34 | furrywolf | you can use packages.debian.org for ~99% of packages at the moment |
| 03:02.49 | iio7 | Good to know. |
| 03:03.01 | furrywolf | packages.devuan.org is a very frequently requested feature, but right now development effort is going into actual development, not shiny. |
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| 03:04.43 | ffurrywol | grrr, stupid internet connection. |
| 03:04.48 | ffurrywol | <furrywolf> you can use packages.debian.org for ~99% of packages at the moment |
| 03:04.50 | ffurrywol | <furrywolf> packages.devuan.org is a very frequently requested feature, but right now development effort is going into actual development, not shiny. |
| 03:04.59 | ffurrywol | <furrywolf> the only packages packages.debian.org will be wrong for are the ones maintained by devuan, which is just init-related, things unncessarily dependent on systemd, and some udev stuff, as far as I know. |
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| 03:12.37 | MinceR | there is a https://devuan.org/os/packages/ , but i don't know its scope |
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| 13:45.34 | lkcl | hiya folks Devuan is up as an option now https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/more-os-options |
| 13:47.59 | hellekin | lkcl: great news :) |
| 13:48.08 | OmegaPhil | :) |
| 13:50.14 | hellekin | Numero Uno Computer Card :) |
| 13:51.20 | hellekin | lkcl: once we're settled with JESSIE there *will* be Devuan support for linux-libre, and I know some of us are very interested in the Guix package manager as well. |
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| 13:59.12 | lkcl | hellekin: awesome. that would be fantastic to have linux-libre |
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| 14:01.42 | hellekin | lkcl: indeed. I've been looking for it for a looooong time. (Parabola got me started, and I convinced Emulatorman to package the Knock patch as well, which makes Parabola the only distro with linux-libre+knock) |
| 14:10.59 | lkcl | oh btw i noticed that there's been some changes to debian-installer? |
| 14:11.41 | lkcl | i noticed because i tried to do an install with no network... and it refused to work. this is on amd64 not armhf |
| 14:12.23 | lkcl | debian-installer is *extremely* complex - it's really important that you don't mess with it. even the slightest "simple-seeming" change could have massive implications and terminate a huge set of functionality |
| 14:12.53 | lkcl | in this case, the possibility for installing without a connection to a network has been TERMINATED. |
| 14:30.59 | jaromil | lkcl: we know this was an error for the beta release, Centurion_Dan knows already the details I believe its not too difficult to fix |
| 14:31.11 | jaromil | its on top priority to fix for next release candidate |
| 14:31.43 | jaromil | good news for the numero uno btw :) i'm going to order one |
| 14:34.48 | lkcl | jaromil: ahh that's good to hear. i did end up plugging in an ethernet cable... it worked for 3 hours... then failed. don't buy an HP 250 budget laptop... :) |
| 14:35.23 | OmegaPhil | If only you bought EOMA |
| 14:35.28 | lkcl | jaromil: btw when you speak next to Centurion_Dan do mention to him that phil hands has been creating a maaaasssive set of automated testing cases for debian-installer |
| 14:35.38 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: he has!! :) |
| 14:35.50 | lkcl | jaromil: yay! |
| 14:35.59 | OmegaPhil | No ethernet port though :p |
| 14:37.03 | lkcl | jaromil: what phil has done is, make it possible to run debian-installer in qemu (different architectures) but then some sort of screen-scraping is done, i think possibly with image-recognition... i don't know the full details... but basically it can remote-control qemu and then check everything is working and gets the desired results at the end |
| 14:37.57 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: yeahhh, had to take it off and replace the pins with USB 3.1 - USB 3.1 is 10gbit/sec and a general-purpose bus, GbE is 1gbit/sec and a dedicated specific purpose interface... |
| 14:38.22 | OmegaPhil | Don't worry, I'm the same person thats spammed you via email in recent days |
| 14:38.29 | OmegaPhil | Read all about it ;) |
| 14:41.27 | jaromil | wow i'm impressed |
| 14:42.52 | jaromil | d-i is one of the hariest hairball i've ever seen. good approach to have a test env. we are doing that by hand so far, but indeed tested only the online situation so that bug slipped in |
| 14:48.25 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: i know man lol. |
| 14:49.06 | OmegaPhil | Have just finished configuring my first Devuan Testing environment yesterday (laptop), nice to have less broken crap |
| 14:49.34 | lkcl | jaromil: phil hands maintains the debian ftp uk mirror, he has done for over 20 years now. debian-installer is so complex (because it has to be) that people are now actively afraid to contribute to it. hence the reasons for the automated test suite |
| 14:49.39 | Lydia_K | I'm glad to hear that, I was doing some reading about d-i for a while for some reason and was totally confused by the lack of documentation and seemingly haphazzard way that everything was just mashed into it. |
| 14:49.48 | Lydia_K | I thought maybe it was just me.. |
| 14:50.01 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: you wanna know something hilarious? the boot time on devuan is FASTER than any of the other systems i've tried |
| 14:50.10 | OmegaPhil | WTF? |
| 14:50.56 | lkcl | Lydia_K: debian installer has to cover a massive number of use-cases in a very very resource-limited environment |
| 14:51.41 | lkcl | Lydia_K: so it can't use dpkg or bash... because those require too much space. busybox and a special cut-down version of dpkg is needed. |
| 14:51.52 | OmegaPhil | eurgh |
| 14:52.02 | lkcl | Lydia_K: there's also pre-seeding which helps pre-answer many of the questions that you get asked |
| 14:52.11 | Lydia_K | I'm sure, and I don't mean to shit on it, I just found the whole thing really confusing. |
| 14:52.15 | lkcl | there's options for running debian-installer over different prptocols |
| 14:53.47 | lkcl | Lydia_K: you will. it's written by some extraordinarily gifted programmers who understand the complexities of covering dozens of different use-cases on dozens of different OSes, using layer on layer of abstraction to refine things down to fit inside the absolute minimal environments |
| 14:54.30 | Lydia_K | I got the feeling that it was one of those things that grew out of control early on and now would be a momumental effort to change or break up, but that was just my impression of it from digging around for a while trying to find some answers. |
| 14:54.30 | lkcl | it has to fit into an initrd - including busybox - and be capable of bootstrapping its way up to larger environments |
| 14:55.14 | lkcl | Lydia_K: if you started from scratch i can tell you right now that by the time you had replaced it with something that was functionally equivalent, you would end up with something that was just as complex. |
| 14:55.53 | lkcl | Lydia_K: except you would have just spent about 5 years of your life and would *still* have 5 years of work to catch up on! |
| 14:55.55 | Lydia_K | Oh I'm not suggesting that. |
| 14:56.17 | lkcl | Lydia_K: :) |
| 14:57.45 | Lydia_K | I wish I could remember what I was trying to do that led me to dig into it.. |
| 14:58.21 | lkcl | Lydia_K: it gets especially complicated in the arm world, because arm doesn't have any kind of BIOS to create a "common boot environment", and debian-installer has to do hardware-level bring-up.... so the process has to be customised pretty much for each piece of hardware |
| 14:58.43 | OmegaPhil | Isnt that the device tree stuff? |
| 14:58.49 | OmegaPhil | Or is that still too primitive? |
| 14:59.33 | lkcl | Lydia_K: much of what people want to do can be covered by creating a "task-xx-xxx" and then just pre-seeding that with a single line as the main target package to be installed with apt-get during the boot process. |
| 15:00.06 | Lydia_K | ugghhh.. that to me feels like it's something that should be outside of d-i, but I'm sure it made sense to whoever wrote it. Also, damn, that's a huge pain, I didn't even think about that sort of stuff on ARM. |
| 15:00.09 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: don't get me started on device-tree and how ineffective it is at "solving" the problems of arm... |
| 15:00.27 | OmegaPhil | :( |
| 15:00.30 | jaromil | lkcl: I do have the hitch of rewriting it but then to cover waay less targets |
| 15:00.43 | jaromil | since nowadays embedded targets are mostly handled with dd of an image |
| 15:00.47 | lkcl | Lydia_K: it can't be! how could it be? you have to bring up the hardware in order to install stuff onto the disk! |
| 15:01.03 | jaromil | well, writing an alternative |
| 15:01.48 | lkcl | jaromil: i know... which means that you just forced *your* choices of options onto absolutely everybody. what if i don't *want* the crap-for-brains default root password that was chosen? what if i don't *want* the networking options that were chosen? or i want to do encrypted LVM or have a set of RAID drives? |
| 15:01.55 | Lydia_K | Yeah but, that feels like something that's more like grub or syslinux (I know, not the same thing, but same ballpark), something that handles getting the hardware up then passes it off to d-i for the rest. |
| 15:02.06 | jaromil | OmegaPhil: so well done, but then you confirm there is no test unit for the ethernet problem, right? |
| 15:02.11 | lkcl | jaromil: or if i prefer a split set of home partitions? or anything-else-that-is-right-there-in-debian-installer? |
| 15:02.40 | jaromil | lkcl: yes I agree that's why corrected myself in "writing an alternative" |
| 15:02.50 | jaromil | which may cover still 80% of cases with a simplier installer |
| 15:03.05 | lkcl | Lydia_K: you can't *get* grub or syslinux for ARM (ok you can, now, sort-of) but it still doesn't help: grub is merely a "selecter-of-what-to-boot" - it doesn't actually do anything beyond that |
| 15:03.15 | jaromil | however is just a hitch. I think live-cds solve this perfectly fine |
| 15:04.20 | lkcl | Lydia_K: this becomes quite a problem in itself, there is an example for the A20, what they did is, you intialise the LCD or HDMI in u-boot then pass over an address in memory (device-tree entry) for "simpleframebuffer" to the linux kernel... |
| 15:04.52 | Lydia_K | lkcl: I know that, that's why I said "more like a" and "I know, not the same thing, but the same ballpark", a bootloader does not initialize hardware, I get that. |
| 15:05.01 | lkcl | Lydia_K: can you see how that would be problematic? the mainline linux kernel doesn't *have* any way to flip over from LCD to HDMI... or to initialise dual-screens.... or change the resolution... or change the monitor... |
| 15:05.46 | lkcl | Lydia_K: so applying the same sort of thing to debian-installer, it *really does* have to know about all the different hardware it could possibly be installed on... |
| 15:07.32 | lkcl | jaromil: but on arm embedded systems, how would you boot to a live CD on a system that doesn't have a SATA port? USB? now you have to initialise the USB subsystem, look for a USB storage device, you also need the kernel modules for ISO filesystems... etc. etc. - how do you bootstrap up to those? |
| 15:08.00 | lkcl | frans pop very kindly made us an initrd-based debian-installer image for the GPL-violating CT-PC89e |
| 15:08.06 | lkcl | it worked really well. |
| 15:08.22 | jaromil | i'm sure you have more expertise on the topic, nor i have now time to go over this in detail so just en passant :) |
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| 15:08.37 | lkcl | basically he fitted the entire netboot debian-installed into an initrd. |
| 15:08.51 | jaromil | but generic vision: basic d-i, arm -> dd image, desktop easy -> livecd |
| 15:08.59 | lkcl | jaromil: the way to do it is to create netboot initrds. that solves all the problems |
| 15:09.14 | jaromil | oh yes that we need to do |
| 15:09.32 | lkcl | jaromil: and covers all possible use-cases. and isn't a lot of work. and has been done many many times. |
| 15:09.50 | jaromil | injecting things into a vanilla initrd is not hard |
| 15:13.19 | Leander256 | I inject my preseed.cfg into the initrd for installing via PXE, it's a bit awkward but that's apparently the only way to feed it before d-i configures the network |
| 15:14.49 | Leander256 | I suppose it should be possible to use a preseed.cfg transferred by TFTP, but maybe that's one of these things that bloat the installer |
| 15:15.30 | Leander256 | or maybe it should be isolinux's job to do such a thing |
| 15:16.12 | lkcl | Leander256: yyep :) i've done that before (a while ago), told d-i where the preseed.cfg file was over TFTP. |
| 15:16.44 | lkcl | it was... fun. months of work. i really should have just set up a "task-kde-custom-thingy" instead :) |
| 15:20.11 | Leander256 | lkcl did you try to submit your patch upstream? or was the code really too ugly? |
| 15:20.25 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: about devicetree and how it doesn't help - https://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2016/07/msg00056.html |
| 15:21.13 | lkcl | Leander256: it wasn't a set of patches, it was a MASSIVE set of pre-seeding options plus scripts... they're around somewhere... |
| 15:21.27 | OmegaPhil | THanks, will read |
| 15:22.04 | lkcl | Leander256: i worked with phil at the time, we ended up making some improvements to debian-installer (he's friends with joey hess) but they handled that |
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| 15:29.49 | Leander256 | that's a pity, I would really have loved to have something like specifying on the kernel command line the URL for the preseed.cfg, instead of having to compress it by hand every time I change it (which happens a lot when trying to figure out the correct options for d-i) |
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| 15:55.05 | hellekin | tried to contact Joey Hess about his mention that the Debian Constitution "is a toxic document" but didn't get anywhere so far |
| 15:57.44 | lkcl | hellekin: iinteresting. i think.... hmmm... have you heard of "bob podolski" and his book, "Flourish"? |
| 15:58.31 | hellekin | lkcl: no I didn't |
| 15:59.07 | hellekin | http://flourishfairfield.org/ ? |
| 16:00.33 | hellekin | I like how 3 white males promote an "octologue", a cooperative made of 4 men and 4 women. |
| 16:02.03 | lkcl | hellekin: :) well, then, we know that when they get to 4 men and 4 women promoting it, it'll be much better-promoted :) |
| 16:03.01 | hellekin | talking about this, we need more women in the core of Devuan activity. Hear! Hear! |
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| 16:03.55 | Lydia_K | I agree, but getting people just because they are some one gender/sexuality/color/whatever instead of getting *the right people who do the job best* isn't always the right thing. |
| 16:04.31 | Lydia_K | I'd love to see more women contributing to devuan, but honestly, the population of women in the Unix/FOSS world is pretty low. |
| 16:05.28 | Lydia_K | Also, I'm a fan of meritocracies so take my opinion with however much salt you feel is appropriate :) |
| 16:07.03 | FrozenWes | the question is, are those people currently not part of the FOSS world because they're not as good as those who are, or are they not part of it because of other reasons |
| 16:07.58 | Lydia_K | Well, much of the online/tech communities are pretty toxic towards women, which prevents them from getting involved, often even preventing them from pursuing the field when they are younger. |
| 16:08.17 | Lydia_K | I will see that seems to be getting better in recent years, though that's just my perspective. |
| 16:08.39 | hellekin | Lydia_K: I agree with you, yet we *know* there are women here who remain silent just because there's a general bias against women in tech. |
| 16:08.41 | FrozenWes | exactly, so if you were to attract more women you wouldn't have to accept less talented people, because there's plenty of talented women out there |
| 16:09.14 | hellekin | like-minded opinions so far :) |
| 16:09.20 | FrozenWes | i.e.: if you make FOSS more friendly towards women you wouldn't need to compromise on skill to attract more women |
| 16:10.37 | Lydia_K | Well, yes and no, I've met some incredibly talented women, but the ratio is like ten talented man to one talented woman, maybe worse, so it's harder to *find* talented women. That's all I'm saying, you are correct that you don't *have* to comprimise on talent, but it's a lot harder to find those talented women. |
| 16:10.42 | Lydia_K | That's my only point. |
| 16:10.44 | hellekin | lkcl: honestly this titanians.org thing sound a lot like wishful thinking. Did you know that the Kurdish society in Rojava actually *implemented* institutional equality, where all public offices are taken not by one person, but by a male/female pair? |
| 16:11.08 | lkcl | hellekin: coooool |
| 16:11.13 | Lydia_K | That's an interesting idea. |
| 16:11.56 | lkcl | hellekin: there do exist societies which have duplicated what bob is advocating - it's nothing new, but it's the first time i've ever heard it properly formalised |
| 16:12.21 | Lydia_K | The problem with that is what about people of color? different sexualities? and so on, focusing on gender is only one part of a larger problem. Still, pretty interesting idea, I wonder how it's panned out. |
| 16:12.31 | lkcl | i would strongly suggest that devuan look at creating a charter based around having read bob's work *before* writing the constitution |
| 16:12.34 | FrozenWes | I'd argue that putting in the efford to find those women is worth it, and that if you do over time less efford will be needed :) |
| 16:12.57 | Lydia_K | That is true FrozenWes! :D |
| 16:13.12 | OmegaPhil | Oh god, there isn't going to be a covenant right |
| 16:13.27 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: The Cult Of Devuan... mwahahahaahh |
| 16:13.29 | Lydia_K | Sigh with your blood! |
| 16:13.32 | Lydia_K | *Sign |
| 16:13.41 | OmegaPhil | Yeah, I hope not |
| 16:13.50 | Lydia_K | One of us! one of us! |
| 16:14.06 | lkcl | hey i'm thinking of starting a cult - called "CultOfOne.com" - be your own cult leader!!!! total membership permitted: One!!! |
| 16:14.08 | lkcl | :) |
| 16:14.11 | OmegaPhil | Keep a freedom of expression environment where you can say stuff that 'hurts feelings', but anyone being pointlessly disruptive is dealt with |
| 16:14.17 | Lydia_K | lkcl: LOL |
| 16:14.55 | Lydia_K | OmegaPhil: Deciding where that line is between those two is the hard part, which is why people tend to lean towards one extreme or the other, it's easier that way. |
| 16:15.01 | lkcl | OmegaPhil: bob's work is based around defining ethics. |
| 16:15.33 | lkcl | ethical act is defined as, "an act which increases truth love awareness or creativity in anyone... WITHOUT decreasing any of those qualities for ANYONE" |
| 16:15.39 | hellekin | Lydia_K: I'd argue that it's much better to have a female/male pair than one male, and that non-binary gender people should recognize that as well. The fact mammals reproduce in female/male pair doesn't mean non-binary gender does not exist, it just means that how nature worked out mammal sexual evolution. You can be non-binary and accept facts as well. |
| 16:15.58 | lkcl | thus, bureacracy is *defined* as 100% unethical... :) |
| 16:16.17 | lkcl | hellekin: it's a really really good idea. |
| 16:16.37 | lkcl | but also "majority voting" can also be *defined* as being "unethical". |
| 16:16.46 | Lydia_K | Oh I'm not arguing with you there, two sexes is the approriate number in order to properly encourage genetic diversity *AND* stability, and that's the 99%. |
| 16:16.47 | lkcl | it all stems from that definition of what an "ethical act" is. |
| 16:18.13 | hellekin | I also think that "affirmative action" is not such a good idea, as it focuses on the problem ("being black") rather than a solution ("being human"). |
| 16:18.25 | Lydia_K | I was actually working on a genetic algorithm for a while and had multiple parentage (which seemed like a good idea at the time) and was a reading a Dawkins book on evolution, he had a whole chapter on "Why only two sexes?" when I got to the end of it I closed the book, went over to my code, limited the number of parents to two, and within just ten or twenty generations I was seeing significantly better |
| 16:18.30 | hellekin | the *perceived* problem |
| 16:18.31 | Lydia_K | results! |
| 16:19.11 | Lydia_K | I feel like affirmative action is a band aid on an infected wound, it doesn't solve the problem at all, but it makes it look/feel a little better in the short term. |
| 16:19.14 | hellekin | so, in a nutshell, why two parents? |
| 16:19.45 | *** join/#devuan TwistedFate (~TwistedFa@unaffiliated/twistedfate) |
| 16:21.05 | Lydia_K | It's been like, 10 years now, so I may not remember everything, but in a nutshell with too many parents you get too much diversity, positive traits are less likely to take hold, they don't get the chance to flouish and go on, so with two parents when good genes are introduced the children are far more likely to carry said genes and pass them on. |
| 16:21.18 | Lydia_K | This goes hand in hand with "Why is the rate of mutation so low?" |
| 16:21.19 | hellekin | affirmative action to me has the same effect that exposing CEO wages: instead of public shaming of CEOs, it turned their pay into a race to the top. Affirmative action stigmatizes the minority ("poor black, give him a job") and reinforces racism ("asshole, your skin color gave you MY job") |
| 16:21.40 | Lydia_K | which was the other thing that I turned down right away, I had it jacked up really high, and it was doing more harm than good. |
| 16:21.59 | hellekin | interesting |
| 16:22.06 | hellekin | more counter-intuitive results :) |
| 16:22.13 | Lydia_K | Yes! Very much so! |
| 16:22.57 | Lydia_K | The best part of that was I had already read like three or four books on evolution and felt like I already understood it plenty, but then right there it prooved to myself my own ignorance, and made me glad that despite my arrogence I continued to do research. |
| 16:23.18 | Lydia_K | It was a nice lesson in "Always remember how stupid you are." ;) |
| 16:23.38 | hellekin | It reminds me of an early IRC experience. One day a friend stormed into my channel and urged me to take a female nick and see what would happen. I did, and wow, before I had the chance to settle down I was caught in 20 private conversations. |
| 16:23.56 | OmegaPhil | Lol! |
| 16:24.00 | Lydia_K | The code in question in case you are wondering: https://github.com/LydiaSevelt/GeneticM |
| 16:24.14 | Akuli | i doubt that would happen anymore |
| 16:24.17 | OmegaPhil | Basically lots of desperate males cooped up in a channel? |
| 16:24.22 | Lydia_K | It's a lot better than it used to be. |
| 16:24.22 | hellekin | The bias is so strong I'm even surprised you Lydia_K keep the hint of your gender so visible. |
| 16:24.27 | hellekin | ok |
| 16:24.36 | Lydia_K | I went by a gender neutral nick for so many years. |
| 16:24.50 | hellekin | so I guess you got the gist :) |
| 16:24.54 | Lydia_K | Then at some point I just stopped giving a shit. |
| 16:25.05 | Lydia_K | And things are better than they used to be. |
| 16:25.36 | Lydia_K | Still I regularly get PM's from people who ask like two questions, usually about my location and age, then disconnect before I even have a chance to respond (which always baffles me) |
| 16:25.56 | Lydia_K | Once in a while they'll talk to me for a while, I like to screw with them :D |
| 16:26.02 | lkcl | Lydia_K: 2 is a really special number - 2+2 = 2x2. 2-bit multiplication can be done *really* efficiently. i worked for Aspex Semiconductors: they did 1-bit processors but extended them to 2-bit later |
| 16:26.17 | lkcl | Lydia_K: oh so you're a fan of 419 scammer baiting, then? ;) |
| 16:26.31 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 16:26.45 | Lydia_K | Well like one guy kept after me, getting sexual obviously |
| 16:27.24 | Lydia_K | so I look up his IP, get a location, stick that into google maps, and find out it's northern italy, right near the boarder of france. |
| 16:27.41 | OmegaPhil | Nice place for a visit |
| 16:27.44 | hellekin | Lydia_K: does the repo on github keep history of the stages you mentioned? |
| 16:28.04 | Lydia_K | So this guy wants to cam with me so I go "Northern Italy!? That's practically france! As a Sicillian I don't think I can cam with you anymore." and I send him the google maps link to his small town. |
| 16:28.22 | Lydia_K | Freaked him right now! Paniced, said something about leaving him alone, and signed off. |
| 16:28.27 | Lydia_K | I thought it was hilarious. |
| 16:28.42 | hellekin | hehe the stalked stalker |
| 16:29.19 | OmegaPhil | I wonder if this 'sexual solicitation of totally unknown strangers' is a fetish |
| 16:29.47 | Lydia_K | hellekin: I developed that code years and years ago, should have posted it, but quite frankly the "interface" (if you could even call it that, you really can't) is a mess, so finally I just dumped it onto github with a little bit of "documentation" I threw together. |
| 16:30.05 | OmegaPhil | What 'normal' attraction could come about from harassing totally unknown people, no idea what they look like, etc |
| 16:30.08 | Lydia_K | So um, I don't even remember if it was in git originally.. so maybe it's in the commit history? |
| 16:31.10 | OmegaPhil | Oh lol, just remembered - offtopic = debian-fork |
| 16:31.17 | OmegaPhil | *#debianfork |
| 16:31.23 | Lydia_K | OmegaPhil: I think it's more of a power thing for guys, they get to either shame women, convince women to do things for them, or just otherwise feel superior to women (probably cause they don't feel superior to anyone else) |
| 16:31.28 | Lydia_K | Oh man, you are so right OmegaPhil |
| 16:31.33 | Lydia_K | Let's move this all there. |
| 16:31.45 | hellekin | OmegaPhil: there's one famous psychologist who "discovered" the fabric fetish. People would flock to his cabinet for therapy. He was kind of a superstar in his field, and a disciple of Lacan. After his death, a fabric fetish room was found in his home. The guy had the fetish himself, and turned it into a job. A psychiatrist acquaintance told me the story, I was both amused and baffled. |
| 16:32.35 | hellekin | OmegaPhil: we started on-topic but derived quite fast |
| 16:33.30 | *** join/#devuan cdanderson42 (~nuhrin@67.170.89.70) |
| 16:33.34 | *** join/#devuan lime_ (~lime@146.68-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) |
| 16:34.11 | lkcl | Lydia_K: frickin funny. err... so you've looked up the IP address of... errr... my server? ;) |
| 16:34.33 | lkcl | wonders if he's routing this traffic through his VPN or not... and whether to switch it off if it is ;) |
| 16:34.57 | Lydia_K | LOL, naw, I don't have time to stalk everyone |
| 16:35.06 | Lydia_K | Just people who catch my interest ;) |
| 16:35.15 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: automate it and stalk everyone lol |
| 16:35.59 | *** join/#devuan lime_ (~lime@146.68-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) |
| 16:36.07 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 16:36.14 | Lydia_K | In the old days I would have done stuff like that. |
| 16:36.29 | *** join/#devuan lime_ (~lime@146.68-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) |
| 16:36.31 | Lydia_K | But my hacking skills are pretty rusty these days, what with having a real job and all that. |
| 16:36.38 | lime_ | software for my simcard slot in my thinkpad? |
| 16:37.14 | ksx4system | lime_: wvdial of course |
| 16:37.50 | ksx4system | lime_: easy to config, super easy to operate, works with nearly any 3G modem on the market |
| 16:38.22 | Lydia_K | wvdial <3 |
| 16:38.32 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: the best stuff <3 |
| 16:38.47 | lime_ | thank you ksx4system |
| 16:38.59 | ksx4system | lime_: np :) |
| 16:39.20 | Lydia_K | I miss the days of my PCMCIA Cell card modem and my RV antenna on a Mic stand. |
| 16:39.36 | ksx4system | I don't miss those days lol |
| 16:39.49 | ksx4system | 384kbit/s was torture |
| 16:40.18 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 16:40.22 | ksx4system | but well, it was way nicer than current USB modems... |
| 16:40.29 | Lydia_K | Yeah but, signal from like, anywhere. |
| 16:40.40 | lime_ | i remember dial up days on irc |
| 16:40.57 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: I have 4G signal "from like, anywhere" in here |
| 16:41.01 | Lydia_K | From the mountains of Maine to the concrete bunkers of basement clubs. |
| 16:41.09 | lime_ | 56k modems and all |
| 16:41.36 | ksx4system | lime_: that was funny stuff :D 45min to download a song, 5mins for e-mail client to refresh... |
| 16:41.52 | hellekin | that's an illustration of dial up :) |
| 16:42.05 | *** join/#devuan lime_ (~lime@146.68-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) |
| 16:42.55 | ksx4system | hellekin: shortly after 56k modem days I was forced to use *even slower* packet wireless (GPRS) |
| 16:43.37 | OmegaPhil | 5 minutes?? |
| 16:43.44 | OmegaPhil | Just the headers? |
| 16:43.56 | Lydia_K | CDMA was pretty damn good. |
| 16:44.04 | ksx4system | OmegaPhil: yes, just the headers :D |
| 16:44.15 | OmegaPhil | Do not comprehend |
| 16:44.39 | hellekin | ksx4system: I went from 600Mbps at INRIA to 28.8Kbps at home. I didn't understand how people could stand having to connect to check email, disconnect to read and reply, reconnect to send, and everything was so slow. |
| 16:44.41 | OmegaPhil | Glad I kept away from dialup |
| 16:45.43 | ksx4system | OmegaPhil: fiber or LTE, nothing else matters |
| 16:46.05 | OmegaPhil | has VDSL2, pretty good |
| 16:46.09 | *** join/#devuan vimel (~vimel@unaffiliated/vimel) |
| 16:47.43 | ksx4system | OmegaPhil: LTE on 1800MHz here, too slow! |
| 16:48.00 | Lydia_K | Guys, this should be in #debianfork :) |
| 16:48.06 | Lydia_K | golinux is gonna be mad at us! |
| 16:50.18 | golinux | Lydia_K: This channel went off the rails quite a while ago. |
| 16:50.57 | golinux | I got up late so just now finished reading the scrollback. |
| 16:51.28 | golinux | Wish I'd been around for the gender discussion. |
| 16:53.39 | Lydia_K | It's nice to see that sort of discussion even happening. |
| 16:54.06 | Lydia_K | Considering that even just a few years ago I never would have seen something like that talked about. |
| 16:55.20 | Lydia_K | Personally, the fact that both you and I are here makes this the highest female populated open source code specific channel I've ever been in. |
| 16:55.20 | *** join/#devuan SuicideJunkie (~nick@CPE000f6638c2b8-CM0c473de90d90.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:00.18 | golinux | Lydia_K: Then there's Stephanie on the ML. |
| 17:00.41 | Lydia_K | I need to keep up with the mailing list better |
| 17:01.17 | Lydia_K | I tend to look at that once or twice a week and read the threads that look interesting. |
| 17:01.54 | golinux | There's a lot of useless back and forth that drones on and on |
| 17:01.56 | *** join/#devuan windowsrefund (~windowsre@unaffiliated/windowsrefund) |
| 17:02.10 | ksx4system | unfortunately missed the gender discussion, will have to read the backlog |
| 17:02.11 | golinux | but some good stuff too. |
| 17:02.40 | *** join/#devuan al3xus (~al3xus@host192-84-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:02.52 | Lydia_K | I've certainly read some interesting threads. |
| 17:02.59 | Lydia_K | But I tend to be more of an IRC rat. |
| 17:03.00 | al3xus | hi |
| 17:03.07 | Lydia_K | hiya al3xus |
| 17:03.24 | al3xus | please help me setting apt... |
| 17:03.33 | al3xus | devuan website says: |
| 17:03.34 | golinux | I have the time to do both. :) |
| 17:03.43 | al3xus | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main |
| 17:03.43 | al3xus | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main |
| 17:03.44 | al3xus | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main |
| 17:03.52 | al3xus | other guides say: |
| 17:04.23 | Lydia_K | golinux: I should spend more time on the train catching up on the mailing list, I really do have the time, but I tend to spend it just sitting and decompressing. |
| 17:04.46 | golinux | Lydia_K: Decompressing is good. |
| 17:04.52 | al3xus | deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie main |
| 17:04.52 | al3xus | deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main |
| 17:04.52 | al3xus | deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main |
| 17:05.08 | al3xus | (please excuse for the mess) |
| 17:05.17 | ksx4system | al3xus: use what Devuan website suggests and *please* use pastebin for long pastes |
| 17:05.18 | golinux | the package source is outdated |
| 17:05.37 | ksx4system | golinux: ? |
| 17:05.40 | golinux | That was hardly a long paste ;) |
| 17:05.57 | Akuli | he did say sorry at the end |
| 17:06.01 | Akuli | so i think thats ok |
| 17:06.07 | Lydia_K | I think three lines is an acceptable paste length :) |
| 17:06.10 | golinux | ksx4system: packages.devaun.org |
| 17:06.26 | ksx4system | golinux: oh, this one |
| 17:06.33 | Akuli | al3xus, i use the auto.devuan.org ones |
| 17:06.44 | golinux | Yes, that is the right one |
| 17:06.53 | Akuli | i mean auto.mirror.devuan.org |
| 17:07.00 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~david@72.34.178.53) |
| 17:07.01 | al3xus | ah ok |
| 17:07.08 | golinux | chillfan needs to update his wiki pages |
| 17:07.15 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 17:07.21 | al3xus | so 'auto.mirror.devuan.org' is the right one |
| 17:07.25 | golinux | Yes |
| 17:07.31 | Lydia_K | I have us.mirror.devuan.org, but my install is from the early alpha, so I should probably update that. |
| 17:07.46 | al3xus | good thanks |
| 17:07.54 | al3xus | just another question... |
| 17:07.57 | golinux | Lydia_K: you can do it like that too |
| 17:08.35 | al3xus | is it ok using also merged jessie-backports ? |
| 17:08.44 | al3xus | I mean: deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main |
| 17:08.58 | al3xus | (1 row paste ;) |
| 17:09.06 | golinux | LOL! |
| 17:09.08 | ksx4system | al3xus: yes, it's ok :) works like a charm |
| 17:09.46 | ksx4system | jessie-proposed-updates seems to work too |
| 17:10.00 | golinux | al3xus: Let us know how it goes |
| 17:10.17 | Akuli | how are you installing if you need to configure apt manually? |
| 17:10.42 | ksx4system | Akuli: probably debootstrap or migration from Debian |
| 17:10.47 | al3xus | some packages I need (ex. rt kernels) seems to be present only as backports... |
| 17:11.24 | al3xus | I want to upgrade from whhezy... |
| 17:11.30 | Lydia_K | RT kernels, what do you need those for? (honestly curious, it's been a while since I've had a need for something like that) |
| 17:11.51 | al3xus | <Lydia_K>: realtime audio |
| 17:12.01 | Lydia_K | Nice, using jack? |
| 17:12.16 | Lydia_K | <- has done a bunch of realtime audio |
| 17:12.26 | al3xus | <Lydia_K>: yes... alsa+jack, *no* pulseaudio |
| 17:12.41 | Lydia_K | pulseaudio is garbage when it comes to latency |
| 17:12.49 | Lydia_K | Doing recording? Using Ardour? |
| 17:13.00 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: pulsaudio is 100% garbage in any scenario |
| 17:13.05 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 17:13.05 | al3xus | that is the idea ;) |
| 17:13.16 | al3xus | <ksx4system>: agree |
| 17:13.33 | Lydia_K | Nice, the husband and I ran a small recording studio for a while using a setup like that. |
| 17:14.11 | al3xus | I have my hifi and pc connected... |
| 17:14.51 | Lydia_K | Ardour is a really nice piece of software. |
| 17:15.06 | al3xus | pc audio using a maudio pci card |
| 17:15.40 | al3xus | <Lydia_K>: agree :) |
| 17:16.14 | Lydia_K | Very nice, MAudio makes great hardware. |
| 17:16.57 | al3xus | <Lydia_K>: yeah... lp and fm radio recordings and edit are good |
| 17:17.29 | al3xus | <Lydia_K>: but i "serious" audio setup is necessary |
| 17:17.41 | al3xus | <Lydia_K>: a "serious"... |
| 17:18.11 | Lydia_K | by LP you mean recording vinyl? |
| 17:18.20 | al3xus | yes |
| 17:18.24 | Lydia_K | Awesome! :D |
| 17:18.34 | Lydia_K | A friend of mine is a serious record collector. |
| 17:18.55 | Lydia_K | And my husband has tons of vinyl. |
| 17:19.04 | al3xus | :) |
| 17:19.07 | Lydia_K | There are so many turntables in my house. |
| 17:19.16 | Lydia_K | Anyway, sorry, getting super off topic. |
| 17:19.22 | al3xus | ah ok |
| 17:19.53 | al3xus | come back to apt sources... and upgrade... |
| 17:20.12 | al3xus | someone is using Mate dm? |
| 17:20.42 | Lydia_K | I don't, but I *think* I've seen other people talking about using it. |
| 17:20.51 | Lydia_K | It's old gnome2 so it should be free of systemd hooks |
| 17:21.10 | Lydia_K | <- openbox |
| 17:21.17 | al3xus | are there known problems with Mate? |
| 17:21.25 | Lydia_K | I don't think so. |
| 17:21.47 | jonadab | The are known issues with building Mate if your shell is not bash-compatible. |
| 17:22.03 | jonadab | But that's only build-time. |
| 17:22.24 | al3xus | I am using Mate as a good compromise between load and usability... |
| 17:22.58 | al3xus | jonadab: please can you explain better? |
| 17:23.18 | jonadab | al3xus: The Mate build system makes assumptions that aren't valid if your shell is e.g. ksh. |
| 17:23.25 | al3xus | ah ok |
| 17:23.30 | jonadab | These can be worked around, but it requires manual fiddling. |
| 17:23.34 | *** join/#devuan kraiskil (~kraiskil@145.247.15.238) |
| 17:23.44 | jonadab | It's easier to just make bash your shell for a few minutes. |
| 17:24.14 | al3xus | my default shell is bash... |
| 17:24.21 | al3xus | no problem anyway |
| 17:24.25 | jonadab | My biggest problem with Mate is they didn't fork soon enough. By several years. So some of the really useful functionality Gnome used to have was already gone. |
| 17:24.30 | *** join/#devuan TemporalBeing1 (~Ben_Meyer@50.57.17.244) |
| 17:24.42 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: openbox <3 <3 <3 |
| 17:25.44 | gci_admin | wanders in, grabs the mic, shouts "Xfce4 > *", drops the mic, wanders off |
| 17:26.16 | al3xus | <ksx4system> <Lydia_K>: I know openbox is very good... maybe it will be my next migration... |
| 17:26.18 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 17:26.51 | ksx4system | wanders in with handheld megaphone and shouts through it at a mic: OPENBOX!!! |
| 17:26.59 | Lydia_K | I actually went back to fluxbox (one of my old loves) for a little bit recently and found that there was some functionality in openbox that I couldn't replicate in fluxbox |
| 17:27.05 | Lydia_K | and that I really loved that functionality |
| 17:27.10 | Lydia_K | and ended up going back to openbox. |
| 17:27.48 | ksx4system | good for you |
| 17:28.32 | al3xus | ehm... again to apt sources... |
| 17:28.34 | Lydia_K | Ugh, time for the meeting with my scientists |
| 17:28.47 | Lydia_K | I love repeating myself ten times. |
| 17:28.47 | jonadab | OBTW, this isn't specific to Devuan, but does anybody know of a utility that can take an arbitrary string and font and size and screen position and opacity level and amount of time, preferably at the command line, and put it up OSD/overlay for that amount of time? |
| 17:28.57 | jonadab | On an X11 display, I mean. |
| 17:29.11 | al3xus | what about adding also 'deb-src' lines? |
| 17:29.11 | *** join/#devuan wildlander (~wild@unaffiliated/wildlander) |
| 17:29.44 | Lydia_K | jonadab: Going to overlay large "OBEY" at 99% alpha on your friends X session? |
| 17:29.44 | Akuli | al3xus, if you want to apt-get source stuff |
| 17:30.11 | Lydia_K | ok, seriously, meeting time, back in a bit. |
| 17:30.21 | ksx4system | jonadab: notify-send plus dunst? |
| 17:30.28 | jonadab | Lydia_K: I was thinking of other things... |
| 17:31.13 | al3xus | <Akuli> sometime i need sources... but the dubts is if sources are mirrored... |
| 17:36.44 | jonadab | ksx4system: Hmm, that might just about work for some of the things I had in mind. I don't see transparency support listed in the dunst feature set, though. |
| 17:37.08 | jonadab | Only one thing I was thinking of doing with it would need that, though. |
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| 17:38.25 | ksx4system | jonadab: you should be able to set transparency in config |
| 17:38.31 | ksx4system | but I'm not 100% sure |
| 17:38.44 | jonadab | Ah, I'll look into it in any case. |
| 17:44.21 | Akuli | can there be a window around the text? |
| 17:44.29 | Akuli | if so, it would be really easy to do |
| 17:48.18 | jonadab | I don't particularly mind a window around the text, if the window can be customizable in color and transparency. |
| 17:51.37 | al3xus | thanks all... starting upgrade to devuan... 3 minutes to system self-destruction ;) |
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| 17:57.08 | Akuli | the text would be just as transparent as the window :D |
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| 18:02.26 | *** part/#devuan al3xus (~al3xus@host192-84-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:09.18 | Leander256 | I'm having a strange problem on a laptop on which I just installed devuan |
| 18:09.29 | Leander256 | and upgraded to ascii |
| 18:10.07 | Leander256 | my slim version is stuck at 1.3.6-5+devuan1, it should be 1.3.6-5+devuan3 |
| 18:12.01 | Leander256 | just to provide a bit more of context, during the installation I didn't check any box in tasksel, then I first did a dist-upgrade to ascii, and finally I installed slim and other stuff |
| 18:12.36 | *** join/#devuan al3xus (~al3xus@host192-84-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 18:12.55 | al3xus | here again... |
| 18:12.57 | al3xus | and need help... |
| 18:13.19 | al3xus | I ma trying to migrate wheezy->devuan |
| 18:13.35 | ksx4system | al3xus: what happened? |
| 18:13.41 | al3xus | but running apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 18:14.18 | al3xus | there are some pakages with broken deps |
| 18:14.56 | al3xus | package 'libnm-gtk0' brokes 'network-manager-gnome' 'network-manager' |
| 18:15.53 | al3xus | sorry... |
| 18:16.13 | al3xus | libnm-gtk0 : brokes network-manager-gnome |
| 18:16.31 | al3xus | modemmanager : brokes network-manager |
| 18:16.49 | al3xus | ppp : brokes network-manager |
| 18:18.33 | golinux | You're using NM? :-0 |
| 18:19.03 | ksx4system | al3xus: ok, did you execute apt-get upgrade before apt-get dist-upgrade? did you install devuan-baseconf? |
| 18:19.15 | ksx4system | also nm sucks, connman is better |
| 18:22.02 | al3xus | <ksx4system> oh right... forgot apt-get upgrade... |
| 18:24.45 | al3xus | <ksx4system> apt-get upgrade... 524M... wow |
| 18:25.56 | al3xus | <ksx4system> i am upgrading from wheezy... not sure i need to install devuan-baseconf... |
| 18:26.54 | ksx4system | yes, you have to |
| 18:27.38 | al3xus | <ksx4system> ah ok... can you explain me why please? |
| 18:28.47 | ksx4system | looks to sources |
| 18:29.02 | al3xus | <ksx4system> i suppose apt pinning... what other? |
| 18:29.08 | ksx4system | oh well, you don't have to by now (you did your sources.list by hand) |
| 18:29.43 | al3xus | <ksx4system> yes I changed apt sources by hand... |
| 18:30.21 | ksx4system | then ignore devuan-baseconf package |
| 18:31.20 | al3xus | ok... do i need to config pinnind by hand also? |
| 18:31.39 | ksx4system | no, it's curated server side |
| 18:32.24 | ksx4system | but set pinnings as you need for any external (non-Devuan) repositories (like MX if you want Liquorix 4.6 kernel) |
| 18:32.54 | al3xus | ok thanks |
| 18:33.55 | ksx4system | but afair you'll be better with RT kernel (Liquorix isn't real time) |
| 18:34.55 | al3xus | anothr question... apt update is asking me if I want to use dpkg --path-exclude |
| 18:35.50 | al3xus | i am lost... |
| 18:36.33 | ksx4system | if you have enough disk space to perform upgrade then you don't have to use --path-exclude |
| 18:36.56 | al3xus | so 'NO'... thank you again |
| 18:37.03 | ksx4system | (you can purge unused locales later anyway) |
| 18:37.53 | al3xus | grat |
| 18:37.55 | al3xus | great |
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| 19:02.17 | al3xus | executed: apt-get upgrade |
| 19:02.33 | LunaLovegood | Would doing 'apt-get --purge purge udev' cause problems? My xorg is not using evdev inputs. |
| 19:02.41 | al3xus | still errors with apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 19:02.56 | al3xus | :( |
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| 19:19.51 | LunaLovegood | Can removing udev cause problems? I'm not using evdev inputs in xorg |
| 19:20.42 | Akuli | al3xus, ..and you apt-get updated at some point? |
| 19:22.12 | al3xus | Akuli: yes apt-get update was done |
| 19:22.31 | Akuli | can you pastebin the errors: |
| 19:22.31 | Akuli | ? |
| 19:22.39 | Akuli | using dpaste.com, for example |
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| 19:24.48 | al3xus | Akuli: i am trying to resolve broken deps using aptitude... |
| 19:25.09 | al3xus | Akuli: it is working... |
| 19:25.21 | Akuli | apt-get -f install |
| 19:27.06 | al3xus | Akuli: hoping aptitude will solve... and do not broke all my system |
| 19:28.00 | al3xus | Akuli: errors with apt-get dist-upgrade were |
| 19:28.02 | Akuli | are you following a tutorial or doing this based on whatever works? |
| 19:28.08 | Akuli | dpaste.com |
| 19:28.14 | Akuli | link here |
| 19:28.15 | Akuli | :) |
| 19:29.06 | al3xus | http://dpaste.com/3W4Z4F7 |
| 19:29.31 | al3xus | just a memo... not the exact output |
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| 19:30.40 | al3xus | anyway, aptitude is working and seems doing the dist-upgrade automatically solving broken/wrong deps... |
| 19:31.10 | Akuli | yes, aptitude is nice |
| 19:31.21 | al3xus | i am waiting for the incoming disaster... ;) |
| 19:32.31 | al3xus | i followed some guides (devuan site, dev1fanboy guides) and some hints by people here |
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| 19:38.00 | al3xus | dev1fanboy guides (github) seems to be a bit outdated... i suggest developers to include more complete and updated guides direcly in the devuan website |
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| 19:42.11 | al3xus | which the best alternatives to network-manager? |
| 19:42.49 | Akuli | most devuan users run wicd |
| 19:43.02 | Akuli | it should come with it by default |
| 19:43.11 | al3xus | i know it... ok good |
| 19:44.25 | gci_admin | Yeah, I like wicd. |
| 19:44.35 | Akuli | only problem is mobile broadband connections |
| 19:44.53 | Akuli | i tried setting one up manually, but i couldn't get it to work |
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| 19:51.43 | flrn | Akuli: I never used connman besides a temporary-because-curoious-install, but it says it can do mobile broadband using ofono |
| 19:52.15 | flrn | wasn't able to test ofono due to lack of a sim |
| 19:53.21 | Akuli | what's connman and what's ofono? |
| 19:54.05 | Akuli | maybe it would be possible to set up ofono manually |
| 19:57.40 | Akuli | hmm https://github.com/matgnt/mobos-gui |
| 20:11.17 | al3xus | <Akuli>, <flrn>: here is a memo about wireless connection i wrote some time sgo: http://dpaste.com/13V0HAS |
| 20:12.16 | al3xus | shell only... hope it helps |
| 20:13.58 | flrn | al3xus: if i need wireless, i simply use ifup/down with wpa_supplicant, configured in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 20:14.32 | flrn | but i'd be curious about experiences with connman/ofono |
| 20:17.29 | al3xus | <flrn>: the procedure in the memo i linked works creating a config file for networks you want to connect and use it with simple scripts to connect/disconnect to these networks |
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| 20:20.43 | flrn | but IIUC only wifi, no mobile broadband. For 3g, until now I only used nm resp. with one modem also wvdial |
| 20:22.17 | flrn | so i'd be curious to hear opinions on ofono |
| 20:22.23 | al3xus | <flrn>: ah ok... with mobile broadband there was sakis3g... great... maybe you can find it in the internet archive... |
| 20:22.50 | fsmithred | LunaLovegood, I don't think you can get rid of udev. Maybe if you replace it with eudev or some other. |
| 20:23.45 | flrn | but that might be more on topic over at #debianfork... |
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| 20:26.51 | fsmithred | n4dir, hi |
| 20:27.36 | golinux | The gang's all here! |
| 20:31.06 | ksx4system | al3xus: connman |
| 20:31.07 | ksx4system | with cmst if you want GUI |
| 20:32.31 | al3xus | <ksx4system> thanks |
| 20:32.44 | n4dir | moin, fsmithred |
| 20:32.49 | n4dir | (and all, of course) |
| 20:33.42 | fsmithred | hi nice to see you |
| 20:34.47 | fsmithred | brb |
| 20:34.54 | n4dir | yeah, same here. |
| 20:38.32 | fsmithred | I started working on refracta-ascii last night |
| 20:38.54 | fsmithred | will probably upload a nox iso soon |
| 20:52.15 | flrn | ok, just checked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ofono... |
| 20:52.24 | flrn | ducks and disappears |
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| 22:29.57 | gnu_srs1 | jaromil, hellekin, Centurion_Dan: I'd like to start working on a Devuan distribution of GNU/Hurd using GuixSD/Shepherd. How to proceed? |
| 22:32.50 | ksx4system | gnu_srs1: "In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you wonât end up like the Hurd people." by Linus Torvalds |
| 22:32.51 | hellekin | gnu_srs1: first step, you receive my warm congratulations and entire support. |
| 22:32.55 | ksx4system | couldn't resist |
| 22:33.53 | MinceR | :> |
| 22:33.53 | hellekin | gnu_srs1: then, I guess you want to dig into the devuan-sdk development. jaromil, KatolaZ, and parazyd are working hard on it so you want to follow this closely. |
| 22:34.28 | hellekin | gnu_srs1: next step: hack hack hack hack hack, commit, push? |
| 22:35.33 | hellekin | gnu_srs1: more seriously, I think you should announce your plan on the mailing list and just do it. I have no idea how I can help, but I'll be looking at you :) |
| 22:37.57 | *** join/#devuan lime_ (~lime_@45.32.184.23) |
| 22:53.53 | Centurion_Dan | gnu_srs1: We can set up a hurd port in our build system so you can begin building packages for it. We'd need a hurd build host (can probably be virtual) for each hardware architecture setup. I have no idea about GuixSD/Shepherd tho. |
| 22:57.43 | lkcl | Centurion_Dan: earlier discussion a few hours ago, look up work by phil hands (friend of mine) on debian-installer, he created automated qemu-based screen-scraping system of tests for debian-installer. |
| 22:58.01 | lkcl | Centurion_Dan: you neeed to be running those aaaany time that you modify debian-installer.... |
| 23:12.01 | golinux | lkcl: Numero Uno . . . I LOVE it! |
| 23:14.05 | lkcl | golinux: :) |
| 23:14.28 | lkcl | golinux: you can thank my partner marie for that one :) |
| 23:19.03 | golinux | Well done! Kudos to Marie!! Devuan is of course numero uno in my world. :) |
| 23:20.13 | lkcl | golinux: she thought the pun on "dev-uan" would be appreciated |
| 23:20.31 | lkcl | i liked it too |
| 23:21.21 | golinux | :) |
| 23:25.22 | fsmithred | what are you guys talking about? |
| 23:27.02 | golinux | fsmithred: |
| 23:27.05 | golinux | https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/devuan-demo |
| 23:28.07 | golinux | thinks that fsmithred didn't read the scrollback this morning. |
| 23:28.26 | fsmithred | I wasn't logged in most of the day |
| 23:28.37 | golinux | You can read it on botbot |
| 23:28.46 | fsmithred | and the botbot doesnt' show everything |
| 23:28.56 | golinux | It did here |
| 23:28.57 | fsmithred | there's no way to page back |
| 23:29.06 | golinux | Of course there is |
| 23:29.10 | fsmithred | I've been trying for months. Maybe I'm not computer literate. |
| 23:29.17 | golinux | LOL! |
| 23:29.49 | golinux | I just scrolled back to July 25 |
| 23:30.04 | golinux | using the mouse wheel |
| 23:30.33 | *** join/#devuan Markus_KMi (uid95611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aitbqnpclsmjryan) |
| 23:31.24 | fsmithred | nope. It stars with ksx4system saying "no, it's curated server side..." |
| 23:31.35 | fsmithred | and I can scroll down to the present. |
| 23:32.22 | golinux | didn't understand that last bit |
| 23:32.36 | golinux | I catch up first thing every morning. |
| 23:32.53 | fsmithred | I'm telling you what part of the converstation is the beginnin of what's displayed on the page |
| 23:33.24 | golinux | And sometimes I do searches that go back months. No problem. |
| 23:34.30 | fsmithred | if I click on This Week, I get a piece of what happened a couple days ago - I'm guessing on the time/date, because there's no way to tell |
| 23:34.34 | golinux | After a refresh (from suspend) the page is current then I scrollback to where I left off the previous night. |
| 23:35.49 | golinux | fsmithred: did you figure out the Numero Uno thing? |
| 23:36.07 | fsmithred | ok, now I've lost most of what was displayed, and I only see the last few minutes |
| 23:36.29 | fsmithred | no, the video didn't play for me - I'll try again now that I've globally disabled noscript |
| 23:36.36 | lkcl | fsmithred: if you install "screen" then run irssi or other curses irc client that will solve that problem |
| 23:37.07 | fsmithred | how will that help with the web page? |
| 23:37.10 | lkcl | fsmithred: yeah sorry, crowdsupply use vimeo - you can actually get to that page |
| 23:37.33 | lkcl | fsmithred: reading earlier what you were talking about with golinux. |
| 23:37.52 | lkcl | fsmithred: you log in to a remote server (which has 100% uptime), run "screen irssi" |
| 23:38.19 | lkcl | you'll need to look up how "screen" operates, first. |
| 23:38.20 | fsmithred | lol, I know a server I could do that with, but I probably shouldn't. |
| 23:38.33 | fsmithred | I've used it a couple of times. Not recently. |
| 23:38.36 | lkcl | fsmithred: :) |
| 23:39.20 | fsmithred | so, is there a vimeo link for this video? Or just go there and search? |
| 23:39.47 | lkcl | fsmithred: 1sec... |
| 23:40.38 | lkcl | fsmithred: try this https://player.vimeo.com/video/172525165 |
| 23:40.56 | golinux | is not a vimeo fan |
| 23:41.16 | fsmithred | thanks, that works |
| 23:41.17 | *** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
| 23:41.27 | lkcl | fsmithred: looking at the single-line-of-html-source (!!!) it apparently has noscript options yay |
| 23:42.08 | lkcl | golinux: neither am i, it's what crowdsupply's semi-techie team are happiest with |
| 23:43.14 | fsmithred | lkcl, are you one of the earth-friendly team? |
| 23:43.27 | golinux | lkcl: Are you going to post the naming news to dng? |
| 23:43.40 | golinux | Prime mover |
| 23:43.42 | lkcl | fsmithred: i'm the lead developer and creator of eoma68 |
| 23:43.49 | lkcl | golinux: ok can do |
| 23:43.55 | fsmithred | it's a brilliant idea |
| 23:44.33 | golinux | Did you see the announcements on the ML? |
| 23:44.39 | lkcl | fsmithred: thx. if you can help us get to the MOQ of 250 (we're at 75% so far) that's one of the critical thresholds |
| 23:44.45 | lkcl | golinux: not yet! |
| 23:45.16 | golinux | Jaromil first posted about it on the 22/23 |
| 23:45.25 | fsmithred | golinux, I don't think so. I think I heard about it here or debianfork |
| 23:45.42 | fsmithred | oh yeah, I did see that |
| 23:45.47 | lkcl | golinux: is that devuan-discuss? https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-discuss |
| 23:46.02 | golinux | Unfortunately that email got lost from the archives during an outage. |
| 23:47.07 | lkcl | is having difficulty working out how to subscribe to the dev list for devuan... help! |
| 23:47.33 | golinux | lkcl: No . . . discuss interfaces with the discourse forum. You've been posting the dng which is strictly a ML. |
| 23:47.53 | lkcl | ack. ahhhh okay, dng. doh. forgot :) |
| 23:47.53 | hellekin | lkcl: https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-dev |
| 23:47.57 | fsmithred | golinux, I've got that email |
| 23:48.02 | fsmithred | you want it? |
| 23:48.09 | hellekin | lkcl: devuan-discuss is another mailman |
| 23:48.11 | lkcl | golinux: gotitgotitgotit |
| 23:48.22 | hellekin | no interface with talk.devuan.org yet |
| 23:48.31 | hellekin | (btw, upgrading talk.do just now) |
| 23:49.15 | *** join/#devuan blueness (~blueness@gentoo/developer/blueness) |
| 23:49.25 | golinux | hellekin: Why is DNG not on this list? https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admin |
| 23:50.57 | hellekin | golinux: dunno, maybe to encourage people to move to devuan-* lists? |
| 23:51.31 | golinux | That sucks that dng has been removed |
| 23:51.47 | hellekin | this page is not used, the list is https://lists.dyne.org/ |
| 23:51.54 | hellekin | where dng appears AFAIK |
| 23:52.37 | hellekin | and dng also appears on devuan.org |
| 23:53.00 | hellekin | I never saw the /admin page before you posted it golinux |
| 23:54.35 | golinux | jaromil: Why is dng not included here? https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ |
| 23:54.57 | golinux | fsmithred: I have it thanks |