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| 00:56.03 | stevelitt | nextime, KatolaZ, jaromil, hellekin: What is the official preferred license for Devuan documentation? |
| 00:59.42 | Inocuous | hmm. twice I've lost connection to my keyring passwords in google Chrome, It takes a reboot to get it working again. It's very odd. |
| 01:12.00 | golinux | Chrome is odd. |
| 01:12.32 | golinux | has great loathing for the chrome UI |
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| 01:19.49 | stevelitt | golinux, I've been having great luck with palemoon. |
| 01:20.47 | stevelitt | I have both LXDE and Xfce installed on my Devuan Jessie VM. It currently uses LXDE. Does anyone know how I switch it to Xfce? |
| 01:21.17 | stevelitt | Whoops, sorry, wrong channel. |
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| 02:10.42 | furrywolf | grrrrrr. there's even an article on the pokemon game in the local paper! |
| 02:10.47 | furrywolf | POKEMON IS NOT FUCKING NEWS. |
| 02:11.24 | MinceR | and pokemon go? :> |
| 02:12.56 | furrywolf | is tired of hearing about pokemon |
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| 02:14.27 | furrywolf | are there really so many people with nothing better to do than walk around with their heads stuck in their phones playing pokemon that we need to have news articles about it? |
| 02:15.28 | furrywolf | we need some form of labor camps such people can be inducted into. |
| 02:17.05 | MinceR | lol |
| 02:17.23 | MinceR | we have "news" of all sorts of boring, banal stuff |
| 02:21.28 | furrywolf | everywhere I look on the internet... new pokemon game this new pokemon game that... so I read the local news... and they have an article on it too. |
| 02:22.17 | stevelitt | furrywolf, don't hold back, tell us what you REALLY think! |
| 02:22.55 | MinceR | lol |
| 02:23.59 | furrywolf | stevelitt: soylent green factories! :P |
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| 02:35.34 | stevelitt | Not enough punishment, furrywolf , force them to listen to two weeks of Poettering Pontifications. |
| 02:35.50 | furrywolf | lol |
| 02:36.29 | stevelitt | By the way, I personally have nothing against Pokemon. All three of my kids played it, and one of my daughters went on that Pokemon walk yesterday. |
| 02:36.53 | stevelitt | LOL, force Poettering to go on Pokemon walks. |
| 02:37.09 | stevelitt | That boy looks like he needs exercise. |
| 02:37.30 | stevelitt | He'll find a way to complexify the game beyond playability. |
| 02:37.39 | furrywolf | are they out wandering around your town staring at their phones wandering in front of vehicles driven by drivers staring down at their phones trying to get to the same place? |
| 02:37.40 | stevelitt | Then, no more Pokemon! |
| 02:38.19 | stevelitt | Hey, does anyone know how to switch my Devuan Jessie desktop from LXDE to Xfce? |
| 02:39.25 | Leander256 | could it be by using update-alternatives ? |
| 02:39.28 | MinceR | but is nintendo stupid enough to hire poettering? |
| 02:39.32 | furrywolf | apt-get install xfce4, then select a xfce session from your desktop manager. |
| 02:39.44 | Leander256 | slim won't let you do that |
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| 02:45.22 | furrywolf | my project for tonight is going to be sorting through a box of stuff I got on ebay, and figuring out what usps lost/stole. box is completly open and suspiciously light. |
| 02:46.03 | furrywolf | it was a box of endmills, clamps, dovetail cutters, etc, which should be closed and heavy.. |
| 02:47.56 | debdog | in slim the different DEs and WMs should have asigned Fx keys. |
| 02:48.17 | stevelitt | debdog, sounds good, but I found nothing about lxsession in slim.conf. |
| 02:48.26 | debdog | hmm |
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| 03:00.10 | Leander256 | stevelitt: see the comments for login_cmd in /etc/slim.conf |
| 03:01.30 | Leander256 | you can use the user's .xinitrc to decide with DM to use |
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| 03:20.01 | furrywolf | not as bad as I feared... two of the five lathe chuck wrenches are missing, but the rest of the stuff is there. |
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| 07:31.13 | stevelitt | Leander256, when I did that, it gave me an error. |
| 07:31.27 | stevelitt | Is there a documented way to switch DEs anywhere? |
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| 08:25.27 | FAESGE | hi. how can I enable suspension of my laptop (running debian) when the lid is closed? the power settings don't even have that option (only No Action or Turn off Screen) |
| 08:28.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~freee |
| 08:28.41 | infobot | freee is probably http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3296 |
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| 08:34.07 | flrn | stevelitt: you can choose the DE at the login screen with the F1 key. if slim doesn't list your preferred one, create the according desktop file in /usr/share/xsession/ |
| 08:43.52 | flrn | stevelitt: if you want to go the ~/.xinitrc way, for LXDE use /usr/bin/startlxde |
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| 08:53.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | FAESGE: meh, systemd related http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/52643/how-to-disable-auto-suspend-when-i-close-laptop-lid |
| 08:53.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably might google for solutions from pre-systemd times |
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| 09:05.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73767 (inverted) |
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| 09:39.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<MinceR> but is nintendo stupid enough to hire poettering?)) Nokia was stupid enough to hire Elop |
| 09:40.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | when really *everybody* moaned out loud "this is F*CKNG STUPID, this guy is a MS mole" |
| 09:41.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, now they seemingly finally learned their lesson and will start building own devices again, without any MS affiliation |
| 09:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | after the braindrain and loss of all assets - fools |
| 09:45.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | "burning platform" my ass. What Elop forgot to mention in this BS communique was his plan to extinguish the fire with kerosene |
| 09:57.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh he did mention it, however not stating (not even realizing?) that he did too >>I believe at least some of it has been due to our attitude inside Nokia. We poured gasoline on our own burning platform.<< |
| 10:06.12 | DusXMT | DocScrutinizer05: Nintendo hired Poettering? |
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| 10:06.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | did they? |
| 10:06.49 | DusXMT | Dunno, I'm asking |
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| 10:07.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not asking, since I don't care :-) |
| 10:07.46 | DusXMT | Well, curiosity still exists by me =3 |
| 10:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | RH definitely has enough drones in the freezer to warm up in case Poettering would leave systemd cabal |
| 10:11.39 | Tear | i don't know much about this topic, but are there any theories on why all those distros switched to systemd right away, ignoring or handwaving all user feedback, and even their own procedures for introducing drastic changes? |
| 10:11.48 | Tear | it just seems really fishy to me |
| 10:14.28 | DusXMT | Indeed. That's also the reason why I switched: I wouldn't want to use it even if it was superior, if it was being forced upon people without their consent |
| 10:14.29 | Tear | and all the arguments given by the decision-makers were either false, non-sequitur or other various logical fallacies |
| 10:14.35 | Tear | even though they seemed to be pretty smart people before that |
| 10:14.58 | DusXMT | made it sound like rape x3 |
| 10:15.10 | Tear | it's not far from it honestly |
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| 10:30.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess quite a fair bit of the "success" is due to lobbying |
| 10:33.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | then the promise that everything will be easier for the distro maintainers since they only have to support one init system. And once one big player been on board, the latter argument counts power-2 since the distro maintainers have the choice to either jump the systemd train or have a *lot* of work rolling their own init system integration of *all* packages from now on |
| 10:46.56 | Tear | is supporting a different init system really that much work? |
| 10:47.42 | KatolaZ | Tear: in principle, not that much |
| 10:48.03 | KatolaZ | in practice, systemd is encompassing many more functionalities than that of an init system |
| 10:48.13 | Tear | i just don't see how making a single script out of a template is more effort than backporting patches, modifying makefiles to match the distro's filesystem structure, deciding stability, making sure all packages are built against the libs currently in the repos... |
| 10:48.15 | KatolaZ | and many applications have started relying on those functionalities |
| 10:48.26 | KatolaZ | which makes maintaining them a PITA |
| 10:48.30 | Tear | it seems like 1% of the work maintainers do |
| 10:48.52 | KatolaZ | Tear: you are welcome to help :) |
| 10:49.28 | Tear | i haven't tried devuan yet, i'm considering it |
| 10:50.26 | Tear | i'm on gentoo right now but some of the software i want is available as .deb only, the pc is a multimedia workstation |
| 10:50.59 | Tear | i could theoretically create ebuilds for them, but switching to devuan might end up requiring less effort in the long run |
| 10:51.02 | KatolaZ | Tear: it *seems* like 1% of the work of maintainers |
| 10:51.18 | KatolaZ | but the problem is not materially providing the init scripts for all the services |
| 10:51.29 | KatolaZ | which would be less than a couple hundreds ayway |
| 10:51.39 | KatolaZ | the problem is removing the dependencies on systemd |
| 10:51.47 | Tear | now, yes |
| 10:51.51 | Tear | but that wasn't an argument back then |
| 10:51.57 | KatolaZ | back when? |
| 10:52.07 | Tear | what i was talking about, when it was being introduced into distros |
| 10:52.44 | KatolaZ | IMHO it's irrelevant to speculate about how systemd got its way through the major distros |
| 10:52.47 | KatolaZ | it's there now |
| 10:52.59 | KatolaZ | and we have to work hard if we want to provide a solid alternative |
| 10:53.16 | KatolaZ | or we will eventually be engulfed by "progress" |
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| 12:35.08 | MinceR | 12 113942 < DocScrutinizer05> ((<MinceR> but is nintendo stupid enough to hire poettering?)) Nokia was stupid enough to hire Elop |
| 12:35.11 | MinceR | good point |
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| 13:11.55 | Olrick | a |
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| 13:42.22 | buZz | eh didnt know who Elop was |
| 13:42.23 | buZz | http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/02/09/full-text-nokia-ceo-stephen-elops-burning-platform-memo/ |
| 13:42.46 | buZz | so he singlehandidly destroyed everyone's faith in their own company? :D |
| 13:44.56 | MinceR | he singlehandedly destroyed nokia mobile |
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| 15:14.59 | hellekin | this looks like #debianfork. |
| 15:15.32 | furrywolf | in what way? |
| 15:16.15 | DusXMT | in that there isn't really any talk about devuan development? (am guilty of adding to that myself sometimes) |
| 15:16.46 | furrywolf | and who has a 3/4" indexable boring bar, 4-6" length, they want to send me? :) |
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| 15:22.08 | furrywolf | http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-X-4-5-8-INDEXABLE-BORING-BAR-FREE-TCMT-INSERT-NEW-/350258576976 one of those, but used, so I don't have to spend $25 for a new shiny one when a used one will work just fine. |
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| 15:38.31 | furrywolf | yay!! the new top for my jeep just shipped. I only ordered it six months ago or so... |
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| 15:39.38 | Lydia_K | Nice! |
| 15:39.44 | Lydia_K | Well.. not the six months part |
| 15:40.55 | furrywolf | I knew when I ordered that the company was known for very long shipping times. |
| 15:41.11 | furrywolf | I guess it's only been four months... they estimated two months, which was mid-may. now it's mid-july. |
| 15:43.09 | furrywolf | bbl, chiropractor. |
| 15:46.21 | hellekin | in that way :) |
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| 16:36.32 | Akuli | amprolla is working :D |
| 16:38.44 | DusXMT | Let the updates flow~ |
| 16:39.39 | Akuli | wow |
| 16:39.42 | Akuli | so many updates :D |
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| 16:42.38 | Akuli | then again, its been quite a while since upgrading this computer :) |
| 16:42.56 | DusXMT | only had two, linux-image-3.16.0-4-686-pae and linux-libc-dev |
| 16:43.29 | Akuli | i have gimp, fonts, libreoffice, imagemagick :D |
| 16:43.40 | Akuli | and the packages you hvae |
| 16:43.43 | Akuli | have |
| 16:44.10 | DusXMT | ususally updates all his machines weekly, that seems to be the sweet spot |
| 16:44.41 | Akuli | i do that usually too, but i hadn't been using this laptop for more than a week :) |
| 16:45.10 | buZz | ah ty Akuli !! |
| 16:45.24 | buZz | lets re-enable the security updates :P |
| 16:45.44 | Akuli | who else commented out the jessie-security line than me |
| 16:46.27 | buZz | me |
| 16:46.40 | Akuli | telst4r, didn't you? |
| 16:53.54 | pdot | random questions for the distributed masses, does anyone know the current status of repo mirrors? |
| 16:54.28 | Akuli | repo mirrors? |
| 16:55.05 | Akuli | you mean the stuff you put in sources.list? i just use auto.devuan.org |
| 16:55.17 | DusXMT | eg. http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ |
| 16:55.38 | Akuli | so you want a list of them? |
| 16:56.05 | DusXMT | thinks he just wants to know how they're implemented |
| 16:56.10 | DusXMT | s/he/they/ |
| 16:56.17 | Akuli | https://www.debian.org/mirror/list |
| 16:56.45 | Akuli | oops :D |
| 16:57.01 | Akuli | google things i mean debian when i type devuan |
| 16:57.46 | Akuli | maybe you want this? https://devuan.org/os/mirrors/packages.devuan.org |
| 16:57.53 | DusXMT | Akuli: try duckduckgo, if you surround something in double-quotes there all results _have_ to contain the exact phrase |
| 16:58.00 | Akuli | google dos that too |
| 16:58.02 | Akuli | does |
| 16:58.07 | DusXMT | Really? nice |
| 16:58.14 | Akuli | i use it all the time |
| 16:59.26 | DusXMT | 's been using duckduckgo for a while now, they say they give unbiast search results (that is, uncatered towards the user), which I find cool |
| 17:00.13 | Akuli | i might move over to it some day also |
| 17:01.31 | furrywolf | no, google does NOT. double quotes just makes it more likely to include the phrase. |
| 17:02.13 | furrywolf | google will still quite happily return results without the phrase you searched for if it thinks you're more likely to make them money that way, or whatever metric they use... |
| 17:03.38 | Akuli | :D |
| 17:03.54 | Akuli | it has been good enough for me |
| 17:04.42 | DusXMT | once searched for the largest number one can store in a 32-bit value on google, was too lazy to put (2^32)-1 into the calculator... got really silly results, like this one fake download page with torrents to ebooks about the size of 32-bit numbers, with download speeds and 300~ MB sizes... silly internet |
| 17:06.16 | furrywolf | fake pdfs come back way too often. |
| 17:07.23 | furrywolf | if I ran a search engine, rather than using my powers for evil (like pushing useless crap to the top of results), I'd use my powers for good and make sure any site that seems to be returning documents containing content from sites known to generate original content is pushed to the very bottom of the results... |
| 17:07.45 | furrywolf | most of those fake sites are filled with content scraped from other sites |
| 17:07.54 | furrywolf | and I know google has the processing power to notice this. |
| 17:08.05 | Akuli | DusXMT, i think you can find that on wikipedia |
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| 17:08.28 | DusXMT | Akuli: You can also find that out with a calculator =3 |
| 17:08.56 | DusXMT | I know that it's a 10-digit number with 47 as the first two digits though |
| 17:09.32 | furrywolf | ~math (2^32)-1 |
| 17:09.33 | DusXMT | whoops, 42- |
| 17:09.36 | furrywolf | ~(2^32)-1 |
| 17:09.36 | infobot | 33 |
| 17:09.36 | Akuli | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem |
| 17:09.46 | furrywolf | hrmm, infobot sucks. :P |
| 17:10.02 | MinceR | lol |
| 17:10.10 | DusXMT | 4294967295 |
| 17:10.13 | MinceR | i think it interpreted ^ as xor |
| 17:10.19 | MinceR | ~(2**32)-1 |
| 17:10.19 | infobot | 4294967295 |
| 17:10.51 | furrywolf | and here I was assuming it'd use the same syntax as bc, units, etc... what the heck uses **? |
| 17:11.08 | DusXMT | furrywolf: fortran, from what I remember |
| 17:11.25 | furrywolf | ok... I do hope infobot is not written in fortran. :) |
| 17:11.30 | Akuli | oh, its unsigned 32-bit integer :D |
| 17:12.26 | furrywolf | damnit, I put up a load of laundry, and ten minutes later the sky clouds over. |
| 17:12.38 | DusXMT | yup, signed is halved (with negative having 1 more digit, at least in two's complement) |
| 17:12.50 | DusXMT | s/digit/number/ |
| 17:13.48 | MinceR | python uses ** too |
| 17:14.00 | furrywolf | all the more reason not to use python. |
| 17:14.14 | MinceR | lol |
| 17:14.23 | furrywolf | bbl, need to dig through my tooling and make sure I don't have a 3/4" boring bar before I buy a new one. |
| 17:14.26 | MinceR | well, ^ is already taken by xor, due to c |
| 17:14.35 | MinceR | ** is common enough to be a good replacement |
| 17:14.36 | DusXMT | furrywolf: Hey, fortran is legendary in the science community, it is the de_facto science language, so no need to discriminate it :) |
| 17:14.40 | pdot | thanks everyone, after reading the title bar, I'll wait until the repos become 'stable' before recommending inclusion to my local mirror. |
| 17:15.08 | DusXMT | s/it/its syntax when it comes to math/ |
| 17:16.48 | MinceR | bash uses ** too |
| 17:16.51 | MinceR | % echo $(( ( 2 ** 32 ) - 1 )) |
| 17:16.51 | MinceR | 4294967295 |
| 17:16.53 | MinceR | oops, zsh |
| 17:17.03 | MinceR | but so does bash :> |
| 17:17.07 | MinceR | mincer@darkstar:~$ echo $(( ( 2 ** 32 ) - 1 )) |
| 17:17.08 | MinceR | 4294967295 |
| 17:17.53 | Akuli | are we now going to ditch everything that uses **? |
| 17:17.54 | Akuli | :D |
| 17:17.59 | Akuli | i hope not |
| 17:18.09 | MinceR | lol |
| 17:21.38 | DusXMT | But then again, bash isn't exactly the ideal language for number-crunching |
| 17:23.36 | MinceR | it's ** in R as well |
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| 17:46.15 | KatolaZ | it's ** in gnuplot as well |
| 17:46.32 | KatolaZ | but it's ^ in apcalc |
| 17:46.35 | KatolaZ | (calc) |
| 17:52.58 | furrywolf | I hate my back. I just put together a small plastic tote (one of the 6" deep half-height ones) that I can't move. |
| 17:53.53 | furrywolf | bets Lydia_K is strong... :P |
| 17:59.20 | fsmithred | furrywolf, are you hauling gold? |
| 17:59.29 | furrywolf | HSS and carbide... |
| 17:59.44 | furrywolf | tungsten carbide |
| 18:00.24 | fsmithred | want some scary stats? |
| 18:00.39 | gci_admin | furrywolf, have you considered getting a luggage cart to haul your tote? |
| 18:01.09 | furrywolf | I've considered suing the person who killed my back until I have enough money for someone else to move heavy things for me. |
| 18:01.42 | fsmithred | 185 lb person holding a 30 lb weight with arms hanging down and elbows bent 90 degrees has 2-3 times their body weight on lower lumbar discs. |
| 18:01.47 | gci_admin | furrywolf, well, there is the law suit route. But in the interim maybe one of these would help - https://www.amazon.com/travel-accessories-luggage-cart/b?ie=UTF8&node=2477389011 |
| 18:02.39 | furrywolf | gci_admin: I have a half dozen handtrucks, three large 6-wheel carts, about the same number of moving dollies, an engine hoist, and a 3200lb crane... |
| 18:02.56 | gci_admin | furrywolf, ha! Nevermind me then. ;) |
| 18:03.54 | furrywolf | and none of them will help unless I can clear a path through the living room and greenhouse. heh. |
| 18:06.07 | furrywolf | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cgw4-y1UoAABijU.jpg I bought two of those from costco... one of them I put big wheels on. works great for moving large, heavy things around outside. |
| 18:07.10 | furrywolf | when the wheels fail, costco disposes of them instead of repairs them.... so I got two with some bad wheels, used the wheels from one to fix the other, put jumbo wheels on one (10" and 12" pneumatic), and have two very nice outdoor carts. |
| 18:09.12 | gci_admin | Love the large cart with only a pair of sandal on it. Classic! :D |
| 18:09.24 | gci_admin | *sandals |
| 18:09.35 | furrywolf | I don't know the history of the picture... just did a google image search and picked the first one where you could see the cart. heh. |
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| 18:52.40 | furrywolf | I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go... |
| 18:55.58 | Centurion_Dan | :-) |
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| 19:02.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | furrywolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkCcoenLW4 |
| 19:04.33 | golinux | Centurion_Dan: o/ |
| 19:05.42 | Centurion_Dan | Hi ;-) |
| 19:06.06 | Centurion_Dan | I've been at a conference all week - itx.nz |
| 19:06.19 | Centurion_Dan | https://itx.nz |
| 19:07.37 | Centurion_Dan | Today we have the NZOSS Open source day stream so we'll be extolling the virtues of free software and championing some fantastic open source projects. |
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| 19:35.41 | CenturionDan | o/ |
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