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| 00:24.43 | Vall | Howdy folks |
| 00:25.00 | Vall | Thinking about giving Devuan a try on an OpenVZ container |
| 00:25.20 | Vall | Does anyone know whether there's a template already built for it? |
| 00:26.14 | fsmithred | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_beta/ |
| 00:26.27 | fsmithred | I don't remember what all images are there |
| 00:26.37 | fsmithred | qcow, iso and some others |
| 00:27.16 | Vall | will have a look |
| 00:27.21 | Vall | thanks fsmithred |
| 00:28.32 | Vall | humrmr |
| 00:29.08 | Vall | had a look at the above download URL, doesn't seem to have an openvz template... which AFAIK should be a .tar.gz file |
| 00:29.19 | Vall | there are only ISOs and qcows |
| 00:29.50 | Vall | and imgs for mini SBCs |
| 00:31.05 | fsmithred | what is openvz? |
| 00:31.15 | debdog | http://openvz.org/Main_Page |
| 00:32.04 | fsmithred | can you boot an iso with it and install, or do a chroot install into a container? |
| 00:34.10 | Vall | fsmithred: no booting, openvz is "container"-based virtualization... but perhaps chroot. |
| 00:34.13 | Vall | hummrm |
| 00:34.17 | Vall | will have to investigate that |
| 00:35.27 | fsmithred | does a container normally hold an entire operating system, or just part of one? |
| 00:36.10 | Vall | fsmithred: usually only the userland part |
| 00:36.22 | Vall | ie, no /boot nor /lib/modules |
| 00:36.28 | Vall | those are loaded in the host |
| 00:36.51 | fsmithred | so if you want to try devuan, you should use a VM and do a real install. |
| 00:36.53 | furrywolf | so it's a fancy chroot? :) |
| 00:37.26 | fsmithred | furrywolf, I think the idea is you can ship an application with the right versions of libraries that it needs |
| 00:38.02 | furrywolf | or confine insecure applications in a way that your average skiddie probably hasn't figured out how to get out of. |
| 00:38.32 | fsmithred | Vall, qemu or virtualbox are both easy to use. |
| 00:39.00 | Vall | no doubt, but I need to use OpenVZ for this (long story...) |
| 00:39.28 | fsmithred | you know how to make your own openvz image? |
| 00:50.56 | fsmithred | Vall, people read through the logs, and if there's someone else who's interested in same thing, they may answer later, or even tomorrow. |
| 00:52.19 | Vall | back |
| 00:53.03 | Vall | never made an OpenVZ image myself, will have to research it |
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| 04:11.34 | furrywolf | I love that the more the government tries to force "safe and sane" (aka "boring and worthless") fireworks, the more aerial shells I see going off all over the place... |
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| 05:07.49 | ksx4system | furrywolf: the world isn't sane anymore |
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| 05:13.23 | furrywolf | curls up next to Lydia_K for bedtime |
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| 06:51.14 | thessy1 | want to upgrade a root server from debian wheezy to devuan jessie. are there actually any known hickups? |
| 07:00.07 | KatolaZ | thessy1: I did it on two servers |
| 07:00.09 | KatolaZ | no problems |
| 07:05.07 | thessy1 | great, thanks |
| 07:16.45 | Tear | hey i'm looking to try out devuan as a desktop os (with plasma), is it suitable for that? |
| 07:17.10 | Tear | i've had bad experiences with other forks that remove systemd from other distros |
| 07:17.31 | Tear | desktop-centric stuff like pulseaudio not working |
| 07:17.49 | mr_ws | i used kde about a year ago, it worked fine without pulseaudio |
| 07:17.51 | mr_ws | when i used pure alsa |
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| 07:18.07 | mr_ws | actually, i have a friend who still uses it without pulse, just alsa. kde5 (plasma) |
| 07:18.10 | mr_ws | works fine |
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| 07:19.04 | Tear | i know, but i need some of its features like separate volume for each app and live switching between outputs |
| 07:19.22 | mr_ws | most kde apps have their own volume built in |
| 07:19.40 | Tear | as much as i don't like the way pulse is put together, it does things nothing else does right now |
| 07:20.16 | mr_ws | you could use jack |
| 07:20.27 | mr_ws | jack supports separate audio. and don't kde applications support jack? |
| 07:21.19 | Tear | some apps i use don't have a volume slider or it's tucked away in settings, and it's still nice to have it all in one place |
| 07:21.57 | Tear | everything supports jack through an alsa compatibility layer, but it's meant for low latency audio production and uses up a lot more cpu power with no gain for an average user |
| 07:23.22 | Tear | and there's now jack and jack2, both still being developed and having features the other one doesn't, it's a huge mess |
| 07:23.32 | mr_ws | can't you configure it to use less cpu power, at the expense of latency? |
| 07:25.04 | Tear | look, the entire reason i want to try out debian/a debian-based distro is because i'm tired of chasing ideals like avoiding "bad things" and want linux that Just Works. |
| 07:25.32 | Tear | i don't like systemd but i'd use it if it actually worked properly, which it doesn't in my experience |
| 07:27.24 | Tear | (i'm not calling debian/devuan one of those "bad things" i've been avoiding until now, i just haven't gotten around to it yet) |
| 07:54.20 | sdaugherty | Stopping "bad things" and "bad ideas" in the future is probably going to require replacing corrupt organizations like freedesktop.org |
| 07:55.05 | sdaugherty | That's a little bit beyond the scope of Devuan, but likely very closely related to Devuan interests. |
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| 08:22.44 | flrn | "replacing corrupt organizations" in context of "freedesktop.org" has a subtle taste of bikeshedding ;) |
| 08:25.19 | sdaugherty | Perhaps, but it would be best if standards bodies, even those that pretend that aren't, had technical and architectural oversight that respects the history and philosophy of UNIX. |
| 08:26.50 | sdaugherty | Otherwise we end up with invasive, overly complex things like systemd and pulseaudio instead of more reasonable solutions. |
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| 08:30.34 | flrn | i fully agree. sometimes i'd wish to grow potatoes, not computers. |
| 08:30.53 | flrn | but that's definitely off topic, so i'll shut up^^ |
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| 09:24.07 | DusXMT | The discussion kinda reminds me of this song: https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#52 |
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| 18:01.32 | npnth | Hi, am I missing something, or is libnetcdfc++4-dev not in Jessie? |
| 18:03.58 | npnth | This seems kind of odd, given that libnetcdfc++4 is present. |
| 18:05.44 | Lydia_K | maybe libnetcdf-dev covers it? |
| 18:06.35 | Lydia_K | There's no specific dev package for libnetcdff5 or libnetcdfc7 either, which makes me think that libnetcdf-dev just contains the headers and such needed for all netcdf. |
| 18:06.38 | npnth | Lydia_K: Weirdly, it doesn't (or at least, not to autotools' satisfaction) |
| 18:07.37 | Lydia_K | I suspect pathing, libnetcdfc++4 is a dependency of libnetcdf-dev |
| 18:08.05 | Lydia_K | lydia@lydia-desktop:~$ dpkg -L libnetcdf-dev | grep c\+ |
| 18:08.06 | Lydia_K | /usr/lib/libnetcdf_c++.a |
| 18:08.06 | Lydia_K | /usr/lib/libnetcdf_c++.so |
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| 18:08.47 | Lydia_K | looks like it's a pathing or file name issue, maybe see what it's looking for and make a symlink? like /usr/lib/libnetcdf_c++4.so -> /usr/lib/libnetcdf_c++.so |
| 18:08.50 | Lydia_K | or something |
| 18:08.55 | Lydia_K | I dunno what autotools is looking for. |
| 18:09.30 | npnth | Hmm. That might be it, although if it is I'll just install it in its own prefix. |
| 18:10.50 | Lydia_K | I find that I sometimes need to symlink slightly different names/paths for things (mostly in CentOS 6) |
| 18:11.10 | Lydia_K | I've specifically had issues with the various netcdf's |
| 18:11.55 | npnth | That actually might help - the software I'm trying to compile was written mostly for CentOS 7, so I might be trying to cross the divide in the other direction. |
| 18:12.09 | npnth | Anyway, thanks. |
| 18:12.55 | Lydia_K | Yeah, totally gonna be a pathing/naming thing. |
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| 18:13.09 | Lydia_K | My scientists throw stuff at me like that all the time. |
| 18:14.07 | npnth | Bah, maybe I can convince configure.whatever to be a bit more open-minded. |
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| 19:42.00 | albe123 | Hello! I'm a new Devuan user :D |
| 19:42.13 | Akuli | Welcome wesbl :) |
| 19:45.08 | Lydia_K | Hi :) |
| 19:45.17 | wesbl | thanks Akuli :D |
| 19:47.51 | golinux | Another refugee arrives. Welcome! |
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| 19:50.45 | gci_admin | Welcome to the resistance wesbl. :) |
| 19:53.51 | wesbl | ahahahah, i'm a noob gci_admin |
| 19:54.31 | gci_admin | wesbl, we were all noobs once. ;) |
| 19:55.18 | wesbl | gci_admin, yes, but i undersand the point of this distribution |
| 19:55.43 | wesbl | despite i am a normal desktop user |
| 19:56.49 | gci_admin | I am a server admin and a desktop user. IMO Devaun will be a good migration path for both. |
| 19:57.45 | sdaugherty | I'm just happy I wasn't forced over to Gentoo in order to free myself of the disease. |
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| 19:58.52 | gci_admin | Good one, sdaugherty! :D |
| 20:00.00 | sdaugherty | feel like I'd have needed a dedicated build machine to make Gentoo useful to me. |
| 20:00.04 | FlibberTGibbet | gentoo is very nice if you have enough time. the heat death of the universe might arrive just after compiling xfce, for example :D |
| 20:00.25 | sdaugherty | or more likely, build cluster |
| 20:00.58 | gci_admin | Gentoo - https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5g50gx54wx2cbv/gentoo.jpg?dl=0 |
| 20:01.12 | FlibberTGibbet | I love that one! |
| 20:01.58 | sdaugherty | I just don't see any advantage unless you actually need to swap out dependencies for other ones across the whole system |
| 20:08.12 | wesbl | i reboot :D |
| 20:10.23 | djph | ugh, goddamn, systemd is now this appliance box thing... |
| 20:13.08 | FlibberTGibbet | systemd will soon be fully containerized ready for instant deployment on any virtual server as a scalable web application that can control other devices. let's party down for progress :/ |
| 20:14.38 | Lydia_K | I'm fine with systemd being docker+ |
| 20:14.42 | Lydia_K | that's where it should stay |
| 20:15.44 | FlibberTGibbet | isn't docker now based around alpine? would be a strange irony to run a systemd container on a systemd-free distro :) |
| 20:16.29 | sdaugherty | FlibberTGibbet, docker's default images are now, yes. |
| 20:16.51 | sdaugherty | though, docker remains fairly distro agnostic. |
| 20:17.07 | FlibberTGibbet | sdaugherty: that's good. i quite liked alpine except for failed experiments in getting a DE up and running. |
| 20:17.43 | sdaugherty | as I understand it, the default images switched to alpine to reduce container size for typical use cases like web applications. |
| 20:17.44 | FlibberTGibbet | which might have been an issue with the Virtualbox drivers as much as alpine itself |
| 20:18.12 | sdaugherty | I found alpine to be rather clunky as a desktop OS. |
| 20:18.19 | FlibberTGibbet | you got it working with a desktop? |
| 20:18.36 | sdaugherty | It has the packages, but it really isn't developed for the purpose. |
| 20:18.40 | FlibberTGibbet | indeed |
| 20:19.06 | sdaugherty | I got it working, but never got decent, accelerated video drivers going. |
| 20:19.23 | FlibberTGibbet | ah, ok |
| 20:20.04 | FlibberTGibbet | maybe it's also down to it being a busybox distro? are DEs ready for that kind of thing or shouldn't it matter? |
| 20:20.10 | sdaugherty | and at the time, it was my primary desktop that I used for gaming, so that was a hard blocker for me. |
| 20:20.39 | FlibberTGibbet | wouldn't help, for sure |
| 20:20.56 | FlibberTGibbet | does anyone here use devuan for gaming, i wonder? |
| 20:22.01 | sdaugherty | I was playing EVE Online with Devuan for a while. |
| 20:22.30 | sdaugherty | I have a windows and linux machine side by side on my desktop now. |
| 20:23.18 | FlibberTGibbet | same here -- i use synergy as a km application to control both from one machine |
| 20:24.06 | sdaugherty | *nods* I find synergy doesn't play nicely with some games though |
| 20:24.15 | FlibberTGibbet | it's nice to have an always-on linux desktop for the really important stuff, such as aisleriot :) |
| 20:24.32 | sdaugherty | synergy breaks mouselock in games sometimes |
| 20:25.03 | FlibberTGibbet | it plays hob with my adobe software too on the windows box -- have to disable it until Indesign is up and running, then relaunch |
| 20:25.25 | sdaugherty | it also causes mouse button held events to not report properly to some games - clicks are recognized, but holding sometimes isn't |
| 20:25.34 | FlibberTGibbet | useful to know, thanks |
| 20:26.03 | FlibberTGibbet | will have another go at 3d games after switching to devuan. not much point investigating until i'm on the final os. |
| 20:26.07 | sdaugherty | if you ever to see mouse wierdness in games, test to see of synergy is to blame. |
| 20:26.14 | FlibberTGibbet | yup |
| 20:27.09 | FlibberTGibbet | will be odd having devuan as a main os -- have been using it since the first alpha in various vms, but never 'for real' :) |
| 20:29.18 | sdaugherty | I'll probably reinstall in the next few months with some sort of config management rules used to set up the system, ansible, puppet, or something. |
| 20:29.39 | FlibberTGibbet | for a repeatable system elsewhere? |
| 20:30.34 | sdaugherty | For a repeatable system elsewhere, and so that things are documented so that I can avoid installation bloat and bitrot |
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| 20:31.20 | FlibberTGibbet | hmm. wonder if a set of those rules might be worth publishing on gitlabs or wherever for others with a similar use case to yours? |
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| 21:01.18 | edbarx | Coding a little parser with C as a coding exercise :) |
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