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| 06:27.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | moin |
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| 06:39.14 | golinux | o/ |
| 06:39.38 | golinux | Just saying hi before I head to bed. |
| 06:39.49 | golinux | Bye. |
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| 08:55.03 | hellekin | greetings from /tmp/lab |
| 08:55.58 | DusXMT | finally figured out what the el in 'armel', mipsel', etc. means, 'endianness: little' |
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| 10:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | DusXMT: why didn't you just ask? ;-) |
| 10:07.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | wanna know what's armhf? |
| 10:08.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ArmHardFloat |
| 10:08.22 | DusXMT | I knew that :) |
| 10:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just wonder how el and hf seem to be mutually exclusive |
| 10:09.09 | DusXMT | But thinking about it a little, the armhf name is a little inconsistent, but I guess it's more convenient than armelhf |
| 10:09.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | or one a superset of the other |
| 10:09.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, armelhf would make sense to me |
| 10:11.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | also there must be an armbe or armeb, no? |
| 10:11.57 | DusXMT | If there was interest in such a port, I'm sure it would be possible to make it |
| 10:12.18 | DusXMT | For example, 64-bit ppc has 2 ports in debian: ppc64 and ppc64el |
| 10:12.37 | DusXMT | (that's where I deduced the meaning :) |
| 10:15.10 | DusXMT | For PPC, it makes sense since they only recently added little-endian support (mainly to remove a bottleneck of communicating with nVidia cards, which work with little endian data) and the vast majority of the hardware is only big-endian capable, while ARM's supported both for quite a while |
| 10:15.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> *_arm.deb and *_armel.deb are two incompatible ports, and *_armel.deb is 11 times faster when doing floating point, as well as allowing you to compile your own applications using hardfloat (precisely, -mfloat-abi=softfp) and link then with the softfloat libraries in your generic distro to gain a further 3 to 7 times speed increase.<< |
| 10:16.26 | DusXMT | Interesting |
| 10:21.40 | DusXMT | Kinda strange that simply switching to a different endianness causes such a performance increase with FP, i guess the software FP libraries are better optimized for le |
| 10:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort#GCC_preprocessor_macros_for_floating_point >>Paradoxically, the -mfloat-abi=softfp does not set the __SOFTFP___ macro, since it selects real floating point instructions using the soft-float ABI at function-call interfaces.<< |
| 10:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | DusXMT: it's prolly more about EABI which is implied in armel |
| 10:29.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>With EABI, 64-bit function parameters passed in registers are aligned to an even-numbered register instead of using the next available pair.<< |
| 10:32.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Since this already causes an incompatible change in the system call interface, the opportunity has been taken to slip in a more efficient, totally incompatible way of doing system calls: instead of using the swi __NR_SYSCALL_BASE(==0x900000)+N instruction, where N is the number of the system call, swi 0 is always used with the system call number stashed in register r7. This is more efficient because the kernel no longer has to go and |
| 10:32.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | fish N out of the instruction stream(*), which used to have a negative impact on the efficiency of processors with separate text and data caches (i.e. most ARMs).<< |
| 10:33.04 | DusXMT | nice :) |
| 10:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | which pretty much explains where from that speedup by factor 11 origins |
| 10:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaromil: (& two whom it may concern) hmmm. about N900: https://wiki.debian.org/pkg-n900 |
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| 11:00.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/two/to/ |
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| 13:51.54 | FlibberTGibbet | 'bye for now |
| 13:51.58 | FlibberTGibbet | waves |
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| 16:40.40 | fsmithred | ping furrywolf |
| 16:41.17 | fsmithred | I got a message for you from figlfdev: Xephyr :2 -resizeable & sleep 2 ; icewm --display=:2 & |
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| 17:14.54 | furrywolf | fsmithred: I have absolutely no idea what that is, so it's probably not for me. heh. |
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| 17:20.16 | furrywolf | bbl |
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| 17:29.30 | fsmithred | furrywolf, it might be a workaround for FF killing X. http://refracta.freeforums.org/for-refracta-ascii-xephyr-t584.html |
| 17:31.42 | furrywolf | my current solution of switching to a vt and killing firefox seems to work... |
| 17:31.51 | furrywolf | I really wish there was a browser that didn't suck. |
| 17:32.29 | MinceR | i wish there was a www that didn't suck |
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| 17:33.49 | furrywolf | it doesn't shut down x... it just sends crap faster than x can process, resulting in x ignoring everything else. |
| 17:35.38 | furrywolf | I haven't bothered really tracking it down, but it looks like the javascript that displays the loading progress of the rest of the javascript crap (note that _nothing_ on the page actually needs javascript - more crap web design) updates its spinner infinitely fast, which causes firefox to send updates as fast as it can too... |
| 17:36.17 | fsmithred | furrywolf, have you looked at using cpulimit? |
| 17:36.26 | fsmithred | or nice |
| 17:36.47 | furrywolf | it's making x use all the cpu |
| 17:37.01 | furrywolf | limiting or nicing firefox won't help |
| 17:37.07 | fsmithred | yeah, you can run cpulimit on firefox |
| 17:37.09 | furrywolf | and nicing x would make it suck even worse. :) |
| 17:37.14 | fsmithred | yes |
| 17:37.33 | fsmithred | you using noscript? |
| 17:37.36 | furrywolf | no |
| 17:37.51 | furrywolf | and if I did, then the page wouldn't work for entirely different reasons. |
| 17:37.53 | fsmithred | that might help. Friend of mine had cpu overheating until she started using it |
| 17:38.16 | fsmithred | well, yeah, it's a pain to have to selectively allow sites |
| 17:38.22 | fsmithred | some of them have pretty long lists |
| 17:39.29 | furrywolf | it's crap web design causing a crap browser to send crap to a crap windowing system. none of the three should exist. web design shouldn't try redrawing the page infinitely fast. the browser shouldn't send crap to the windowing system infinitely fast just because a page tells it to. and the windowing system shouldn't allow one connection sending crap too quickly to cause it to ignore everything else. |
| 17:40.54 | fsmithred | you're supposed to buy new hardware to handle all those features |
| 17:41.31 | furrywolf | my guess would be that on windows some rate limiting happens somewhere, so no one on the web design team cares, as none of them even know what X is. |
| 17:42.14 | furrywolf | and firefox's sucking is a long-term issue... and x's sucking is an even longer-term issue. |
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| 18:39.41 | furrywolf | bbl, work |
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| 18:44.50 | GeneralStupid | fsmithred: i like umatrix |
| 18:45.03 | fsmithred | what's umatrix? |
| 18:46.06 | fsmithred | oh, that looks interesting |
| 18:46.51 | GeneralStupid | i like it more because its very easy to disable scripts on one web page |
| 18:47.00 | GeneralStupid | or disable scripts just from one host ... |
| 18:47.10 | GeneralStupid | some websites are not usable without it |
| 18:48.56 | Leander256 | it's like noscript, but for chrome? |
| 18:49.20 | fsmithred | it's billed as a firewall for chrome |
| 18:49.49 | fsmithred | uMatrix is a blocker(cookie,css,image,plugin,script,XHR,frame, and other) |
| 18:51.27 | fsmithred | looks like it's in firefox addons, too |
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| 19:35.07 | GeneralStupid | i use it for firefox |
| 19:35.13 | GeneralStupid | firefox is a shitty browser |
| 19:35.28 | GeneralStupid | but chrome is from google ;) |
| 19:35.49 | DusXMT | 's glad he only really has to use a couple of sites |
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