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| 11:48.52 | jsfarinet | @parazyd or someone else who is familiar with OpenRC: In the end i happily installed ascii and set it to use OpenRC. Now my question is, is there a devuan/debian wiki about the use of openrc? |
| 11:49.42 | djph | jsfarinet: not that I've seen, but I'm also not super-familiar with it |
| 11:49.56 | jsfarinet | I'm asking, because i see the implementation seems different from what i knew from manjaro ... There is no /etc/conf.d/ for example in devuan |
| 11:50.18 | jsfarinet | There conversion is super easy and painless - at least from my - user - point of view |
| 11:50.52 | jsfarinet | and i find the commands are pretty easy (rc-update, rc-status, rc-service ....) |
| 11:51.41 | jsfarinet | I'm interested to know, if i simply could transfer my settings and structure on manjaro to devuan ... ;) |
| 11:53.37 | jsfarinet | quite down to earth: in gentoo there is a really smart script to activate and use zram by openrc (much better than all what i found for debian) which i'd like to implement on devuan |
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| 11:58.15 | parazyd | jsfarinet: just create conf.d yourself, it should be recognized |
| 11:58.29 | parazyd | also manpages + https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC |
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| 18:07.56 | qis | Hi, is there a time plan when a stable version is going to be released? |
| 18:09.00 | hellekin | qis: no. But there's a rough idea of what's left to be done |
| 18:10.11 | qis | hellekin: Do you have a link? I don't see anything of that sort on devuan.org |
| 18:12.14 | hellekin | qis: https://git.devuan.org/groups/devuan-packages/milestones maybe. |
| 18:12.18 | qis | thanks |
| 18:13.07 | hellekin | qis: define your 'stable' need. Maybe the current beta is not going to change much on some aspects |
| 18:14.03 | KatolaZ | didn't we already have a Devuan stable? :^P |
| 18:14.20 | qis | hellekin: I need a server development VM with gcc 6.1 and clang 3.8 that is largely compatible with Debian so that I can work on it, test the results on debian and ship it to my clients. |
| 18:17.37 | ksx4system | qis: I'm not sure if mentioned gcc and clang versions are available on Debian jessie at all |
| 18:17.50 | ksx4system | if they are - most likely you can get those on Devuan too |
| 18:18.00 | qis | ksx4system: I had to compile gcc 6.1 from source on jessie. |
| 18:18.08 | parazyd | qis: doing musl? |
| 18:18.13 | ksx4system | since there's no systemd malware you should consider Devuan much more stable than Debian is |
| 18:18.21 | qis | parazyd: Would love to. Couldn't find a musl distro so far. |
| 18:18.28 | parazyd | alpine linux |
| 18:18.30 | parazyd | stali |
| 18:18.32 | parazyd | gentoo |
| 18:18.37 | parazyd | there are plenty |
| 18:18.38 | ksx4system | stali :3 |
| 18:18.40 | qis | stali is difficult to get working |
| 18:18.46 | parazyd | stali works out of the box |
| 18:18.49 | qis | don't remember my problems with alpine |
| 18:19.05 | qis | gentoo is the best option but many things are broken as soon as you chose musl |
| 18:19.23 | qis | parazyd: I couldn't get clang 3.8 working with musl. |
| 18:19.31 | parazyd | me never tried |
| 18:20.02 | qis | Linux developers tend to disregard C++ development as "not important" and stick with old copmilers that don't have proper C++14 and experimental C++17 features. =( |
| 18:20.20 | jsfarinet | Also void has a musl version |
| 18:20.35 | hellekin | qis these versions won't be in stable, so you should look into ascii, or jessie-backports. Anyway Devuan will be stable before these versions reach it. |
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| 18:21.42 | qis | hellekin: What does ascii mean in this context? |
| 18:21.51 | qis | jessie-backports has no modern compilers |
| 18:23.01 | qis | No GCC at all and clang is stuck at 3.5 - way too old. |
| 18:24.04 | parazyd | lol |
| 18:24.13 | parazyd | why clang? |
| 18:24.18 | parazyd | it's worse than gcc |
| 18:25.25 | jaromil | stali <3 |
| 18:25.29 | jaromil | i like stali |
| 18:26.25 | qis | parazyd: Because of a (from my point of view) better license, including libc++. |
| 18:31.16 | qis | Is it safe to simply copy over a precompiled GCC 6.1 from debian jessie to devuan jessie or can something go wrong even though it looks to work? |
| 18:31.21 | qis | s/looks/seems/ |
| 18:31.26 | parazyd | just make a static one |
| 18:32.10 | qis | Hm? Why? Different glibc version? |
| 18:32.14 | parazyd | then it works everywhere, but in theory your debian-compiled should work |
| 18:32.21 | qis | Ok, thanks. |
| 18:32.36 | golinux | What does ascii mean in this context? ascii=testing ceres=sid |
| 18:33.43 | qis | golinux: Ah, I see. Might not be the best name since you get alot of noise when searching for this in google. =) |
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| 18:38.01 | dimkr | o/ |
| 18:38.38 | golinux | qis: All Devuan releases are named after minor planets in our solar system |
| 18:38.41 | golinux | https://beta.devuan.org/os/releases/#devuan-codenames |
| 18:38.58 | golinux | dimkr: \o |
| 18:45.47 | qis | Nice touch. |
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| 18:54.47 | qis | Hmm, I copied over the gcc directory and get the following error when I try to use it: fatal error: features.h: No such file or directory |
| 18:55.18 | qis | It's /usr/include/features.h on debian. |
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| 18:56.58 | qis | It's part of glibc as far as I can tell. |
| 18:57.08 | hellekin | glibc-dev is missing? |
| 18:59.03 | qis | Yeah and a bit more. I'll just install build-essential |
| 18:59.29 | qis | Installing gcc-4.9 seems like a waste of space. ^_^ |
| 19:00.31 | qis | Ok, everything seems to work fine now. Thank you very much for the information and help. |
| 19:01.11 | hellekin | you're welcome qis |
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| 20:38.34 | figlfdev | o/ dimkr |
| 20:38.40 | dimkr | o/ figlfdev |
| 20:38.47 | figlfdev | i had no idea you were so involved with puppy |
| 20:38.57 | KatolaZ | \o/ |
| 20:39.09 | figlfdev | youre way up on their list of... people up on the list of people |
| 20:39.15 | Lydia_K | LOL |
| 20:39.17 | figlfdev | hey KatolaZ |
| 20:39.21 | dimkr | figlfdev, I don't do much Puppy work these days |
| 20:39.27 | figlfdev | they still credit you though |
| 20:39.33 | figlfdev | shrugs |
| 20:39.48 | dimkr | yes, I'm definitely a top contributor if you sum all my contributions in the last 6-7 years or so |
| 20:39.57 | figlfdev | i think you lend them some credibility-- let them do it, if you still like what they do |
| 20:40.37 | dimkr | several days ago I saw a roadmap was posted in the Puppy forums and someone said "I know this guy" and something about credibility |
| 20:40.41 | figlfdev | a lot has changed (and is still familiar-- more familiar than debian 8 anyway) |
| 20:40.48 | figlfdev | dimkr: that would be me |
| 20:40.48 | dimkr | I'm more than thankful |
| 20:40.53 | dimkr | :) |
| 20:41.15 | figlfdev | im surprised and pleased that tahr comes with python out of the box |
| 20:41.44 | figlfdev | i thought i was going to have to figure out the name of the new package system (when i stopped using puppy there were about 5) |
| 20:43.38 | KatolaZ | what is the state of puppy now? |
| 20:43.42 | KatolaZ | have they embraced systemd? |
| 20:44.04 | dimkr | nope |
| 20:44.06 | dimkr | busybox init |
| 20:44.11 | figlfdev | that would be a stretch. i expected something that looked like the debian mailing list. they seem to be pretty happy with anything that doesnt have systemd, as long as it isnt devuan :( |
| 20:44.33 | KatolaZ | dimkr: :) |
| 20:44.50 | dimkr | long time ago I worked on an early Devuan-based Puppy |
| 20:44.56 | dimkr | hoped someone would pick that up |
| 20:45.11 | dimkr | at that time, Puppy had its systemd debate |
| 20:45.13 | KatolaZ | dimkr: the minimal live goes in the same direction, somehow |
| 20:45.17 | figlfdev | it was a very cool idea, but it takes a lot more to get picked up around there |
| 20:45.26 | dimkr | true |
| 20:45.35 | KatolaZ | and we will be able to have minimal systems (not just live) very soon |
| 20:45.36 | dimkr | and the community is very messy after the dictator left |
| 20:45.40 | figlfdev | actually the refracta installer reminds me a lot of how many EASY ways there were to install puppy, back in the day |
| 20:45.51 | dimkr | very Puppy user swears by his or her favorite community spin |
| 20:46.00 | figlfdev | as does the toram option (pretty standard) in the boot menu (less standard.) |
| 20:46.11 | dimkr | no consensus |
| 20:46.19 | figlfdev | but thats part of its charm, i suppose |
| 20:46.21 | dimkr | that's the main problem of Puppy |
| 20:46.25 | dimkr | true, figlfdev |
| 20:46.52 | dimkr | but in a community distro without a development team or some form of leadership, it's a problem |
| 20:47.03 | figlfdev | well, we need a unified puppy. thats why im working on a puppy init system (called systemDog) to unify all the puplets :) |
| 20:47.04 | dimkr | there's no workflow |
| 20:47.11 | figlfdev | jumps off a roof |
| 20:47.15 | figlfdev | j/k |
| 20:47.16 | dimkr | cool stuff, figlfdev! |
| 20:47.33 | figlfdev | no it isnt! |
| 20:47.35 | dimkr | we're working on init improvements these days |
| 20:47.42 | dimkr | tons of cruft there |
| 20:47.42 | figlfdev | trumst me, its a crappy idea :) |
| 20:48.10 | dimkr | we're still struggling with getting rid of crappy ideas that got implemented in code :) |
| 20:48.50 | dimkr | parazyd, I'm almost done with the rk3288 libre build feature |
| 20:48.50 | figlfdev | getting rid of cruft can be good (depends much on how you do it) |
| 20:49.08 | figlfdev | im not a huge cruft fan (though i do like python) |
| 20:49.10 | dimkr | wasted hours trying to figure out why kernel build fails and now I see it's because bc is missing |
| 20:49.26 | dimkr | don't believe I fell for that traditional newbie-grade bug |
| 20:49.58 | figlfdev | well i will tell you a secret about people, they rarely get smarter |
| 20:50.06 | dimkr | lol |
| 20:50.06 | figlfdev | they get more averse to doing dumb things, and thats not the same |
| 20:50.20 | dimkr | btw, something cool I'm working on these days - https://github.com/dimkr/szl |
| 20:50.54 | figlfdev | neat! (and probably a much better idea than the one i was talking about before.) |
| 20:51.16 | dimkr | the plan is to add support for async loops, multi-interpreter concurrency and other fun stuff, then provide Devuan containers for things like REST API routers implemented on top of it |
| 20:51.30 | figlfdev | if its a scripting language, where is the language summary? how many commands does it have? what domain does it target? (other than the platform, which is clearly stated) |
| 20:51.42 | dimkr | figlfdev, www.dimakrasner.com/szl |
| 20:51.47 | dimkr | I mean: http://www.dimakrasner.com/szl |
| 20:51.47 | figlfdev | ahh... so i withdraw the relevant questions (the others i repeat) |
| 20:51.54 | figlfdev | ty |
| 20:52.13 | dimkr | still early, though |
| 20:52.28 | figlfdev | likes what hes reading |
| 20:52.37 | dimkr | today I got the szl equivalent of Python's 'for i in range(1,2000): _=i+1' down from 1.5 seconds to 22ms |
| 20:53.24 | dimkr | I think this language has tons of potential DevOps use cases |
| 20:53.32 | figlfdev | VERY cool! to be honest, it looks like szl is to tcl what fig is to python |
| 20:53.50 | figlfdev | ive used tcl, and its very cool-- but szl looks more reasonable/consistent |
| 20:54.24 | dimkr | yeah, that's the main idea |
| 20:54.38 | dimkr | a more streamlined language, but with a more powerful standard library |
| 20:54.40 | figlfdev | does it source-compile to tcl, or does it have its own interpreter? |
| 20:54.47 | dimkr | own interpreter, very small |
| 20:55.00 | figlfdev | and the interpreter is implemented in? |
| 20:55.04 | dimkr | syntax is mostly a subset, but some things (like the parameters of 'for') are different |
| 20:55.07 | dimkr | pure C |
| 20:55.10 | figlfdev | impressive |
| 20:55.31 | dimkr | the interpreter has a small C API designed to make it easy to write bindings |
| 20:55.40 | dimkr | garbage collection is in perfect shape now |
| 20:56.08 | figlfdev | its a pleasure to meet you (again.) i actually think everyone should try making a language (if only as a week-long project to product a toy) |
| 20:56.28 | figlfdev | s/duct/duce ... although szl looks like a useful tool. |
| 20:56.35 | dimkr | it's a great exercise |
| 20:56.56 | dimkr | especially if you start writing without designing the entire thing first |
| 20:56.57 | figlfdev | it makes you appreciate coding that much more, and it really helps you understand how computers work (better than logo will.) |
| 20:57.03 | dimkr | true |
| 20:57.17 | dimkr | btw, here's an example of bindings -> https://github.com/dimkr/szl/blob/master/src/szl_linenoise.c |
| 20:57.35 | figlfdev | i probably wont follow, i learned a little about c but headers i still dont get |
| 20:58.10 | figlfdev | well, at least its not perl. |
| 20:58.31 | figlfdev | but thats an impression of the headers file, not the language. the language i might try out. |
| 20:58.56 | figlfdev | how do i install it? (im being cheap asking for support here, though it doesnt hurt to ask) |
| 20:59.59 | dimkr | make install |
| 21:00.15 | dimkr | but beware: no "make uninstall" |
| 21:00.20 | figlfdev | gotcha. |
| 21:00.37 | figlfdev | has never used (or been aware of) "make uninstall" but will not try it. |
| 21:01.07 | KatolaZ | figlfdev: in theory make unistall should be safe and clean, *in* *theory* |
| 21:01.11 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:01.14 | dimkr | jaromil, is there any secret repository of SDK outputs? |
| 21:02.50 | KatolaZ | dimkr: what you mean? |
| 21:03.01 | KatolaZ | all the sdk development is happening on git.devuan.org |
| 21:03.15 | dimkr | I want to compare the size of my modded image with a vanilla one |
| 21:03.20 | dimkr | to make sure everything is sane |
| 21:03.23 | KatolaZ | https://git.devuan.org/groups/sdk |
| 21:03.28 | figlfdev | im a little rusty on compiling |
| 21:03.34 | KatolaZ | but it is not currently usable |
| 21:03.40 | figlfdev | szl.h:38:19: fatal error: zlib.h: No such file or directory #### <- does this mean i have to step through deps, or is there an easier way? |
| 21:03.46 | KatolaZ | or at least, it's not complete |
| 21:03.54 | KatolaZ | it might be there within a couple of days |
| 21:03.56 | figlfdev | isnt kidding |
| 21:04.10 | KatolaZ | we are currently working at providing an easy interface |
| 21:04.18 | KatolaZ | (a shell interface, though) |
| 21:04.20 | dimkr | figlfdev, sudo apt-get install zlib-dev libarchive-dev openssl-dev libffi-dev |
| 21:04.24 | figlfdev | cheers! |
| 21:04.40 | figlfdev | i think i should have read the readme, sorry :( |
| 21:04.57 | dimkr | my bad, I meant sudo sudo apt-get install libz-dev libarchive-dev libssl-dev libffi-dev |
| 21:05.01 | figlfdev | (honestly just thought of it now... yes, i know...) |
| 21:05.09 | figlfdev | oh, no problem! (copies the new line) |
| 21:05.41 | parazyd | dimkr: most arm images are 1337MB uncompressed |
| 21:05.51 | figlfdev | :) 1337 |
| 21:05.56 | dimkr | parazyd, thank you! |
| 21:05.58 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:06.00 | parazyd | i think only two are a bit bigger (rk2388 being one of them) |
| 21:06.02 | figlfdev | google mustve done that on purpose |
| 21:06.40 | figlfdev | tries to think of a reason he thinks google are responsible for arm images, and comes up with an almost-good one |
| 21:06.44 | parazyd | kudos on the libre kernel, please share back the config when ready :) |
| 21:08.01 | dimkr | I still haven't integrated my custom linux-libre deblobbing scheme, but the "libre" kernel should not have any blobs because all wifi/bt drivers are off |
| 21:08.29 | dimkr | 5.2Mkernel.bin |
| 21:08.31 | dimkr | finally! |
| 21:08.32 | parazyd | dimrk if you want to go the easy way, get the kernel with gentoo (portage) |
| 21:08.44 | parazyd | then you can USE=deblob |
| 21:09.27 | dimkr | it's more complex here because of the mix of wireless-3.8 with 3.14 |
| 21:09.43 | parazyd | i see |
| 21:09.45 | dimkr | you need two linux-libre passes with hacked scripts so they don't deblob all files |
| 21:09.46 | dimkr | AND |
| 21:09.48 | figlfdev | ./libszl.so: undefined reference to `crc32' ... Makefile:27: recipe for target '.src' failed (ive looked at the README this time) |
| 21:10.02 | dimkr | Chrome OS patches wireless-3.8 enough to break linux-libre |
| 21:10.05 | dimkr | it produces faulty .c files |
| 21:10.06 | figlfdev | was never good at compiling, needs REALLY specific instructions (make make install isnt working) |
| 21:10.31 | figlfdev | is there a binary somewhere? |
| 21:10.49 | dimkr | figlfdev, try STATIC_ALL=1 make |
| 21:10.54 | dimkr | after make clean |
| 21:10.55 | figlfdev | :( did |
| 21:10.59 | figlfdev | oh! right |
| 21:11.25 | figlfdev | nope, make clean ... STATIC_ALL=1 make had the same output |
| 21:12.03 | figlfdev | its gotta be something really obvious im missing. only minor compiling experience here. |
| 21:12.06 | dimkr | make sure pkg-config is installed |
| 21:12.10 | figlfdev | thats probably it |
| 21:12.52 | figlfdev | no, but it got farther. followed by same errors as usual. |
| 21:13.02 | figlfdev | it says missing libcurl. brb. |
| 21:13.36 | dimkr | figlfdev, apt-get install libcurl-dev |
| 21:13.51 | parazyd | note: do the same for everything you're missing ;) |
| 21:14.14 | figlfdev | yep, on it :) |
| 21:14.24 | dimkr | time to test my C201 image |
| 21:14.28 | figlfdev | apt-get install clue-dev |
| 21:15.07 | dimkr | I really like this ARM laptop, wish I could open the case and transplant a USB wifi dongle inside it |
| 21:15.22 | dimkr | it makes a very nice Devuanbook |
| 21:16.21 | figlfdev | okay, final paste: szl_linenoise.c:28:33: fatal error: linenoise/linenoise.h: No such file or directory (i checked, i really dont have it, and its szl-specific) |
| 21:16.42 | figlfdev | theres a .c but no .h header file (i know what a header file is, only by name an extension though.) |
| 21:16.46 | lime_ | so thunderbird got removed from the d*ian repos, i just wondered what replaced it |
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| 21:17.54 | lime_ | or if anything could be used in its place to replace it |
| 21:17.57 | dimkr | figlfdev, you need to git clone --recursive instead of git clone |
| 21:18.17 | *** join/#devuan devil_ (~quassel@mail.g-com.eu) |
| 21:18.35 | figlfdev | ahhh, k (i was just using the zip. i was hoping to avoid installing git, but will now.) |
| 21:18.44 | dimkr | lime_, icedove |
| 21:18.54 | figlfdev | in any case, i wouldve used git clone so this is good. |
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| 21:21.02 | figlfdev | i give up. its giving me 20 pages of undecipherable shit (as git is wont to do) and the closer i get to understanding compiling, the more complicated they make it. |
| 21:21.26 | figlfdev | not your fault, dimkr. i accept it. |
| 21:21.40 | dimkr | lol |
| 21:22.04 | lime_ | thanks dimkr |
| 21:22.08 | figlfdev | let me know if theres ever a deb though! (sometimes ive managed to compile things, even python3-pygame-- which debian dds cant seem to do !) |
| 21:22.38 | figlfdev | used git for that. it "just worked" |
| 21:23.16 | figlfdev | or maybe that was mercurial (i have no idea.) |
| 21:23.24 | dimkr | figlfdev, my main x86 laptop is currently dead, using my ARM machine and cross-compiling to x86 is a mess |
| 21:23.30 | dimkr | :( |
| 21:23.31 | figlfdev | nods |
| 21:24.07 | figlfdev | no worries. im sure this is fixable, just not today |
| 21:24.31 | figlfdev | also its almost definitely my fault, so theres nothing really even wrong :) |
| 21:25.33 | dimkr | I had a fun idea to develop a function-as-a-service thingy on top of this and Devuan |
| 21:26.36 | figlfdev | like a mitm engine? :) |
| 21:26.55 | figlfdev | is a big cloud-skeptic |
| 21:27.04 | figlfdev | but smallbasic does it. |
| 21:28.25 | dimkr | lol |
| 21:28.46 | figlfdev | fwiw, it WOULD be fun. |
| 21:28.59 | gci_admin | figlfdev, https://www.dropbox.com/s/fw6od9hi0b6ww2w/there-is-no-cloud.png?dl=0 |
| 21:30.11 | figlfdev | gci_admin: exactly! |
| 21:30.18 | figlfdev | irony points for putting that on dropbox :) |
| 21:30.22 | gci_admin | :D |
| 21:30.39 | figlfdev | thats like uploading rms to youtube |
| 21:31.14 | figlfdev | i half expect him to turn towards the camera and say "please, take this off youtube guys..." (he should do this with a zoom in, it would be a great bit) |
| 21:31.15 | gci_admin | Thing is, I am fully aware that it is just a computer somewhere else. I have local copies of *everything* on Dropbox. |
| 21:31.24 | figlfdev | "whoa, how did he know?" |
| 21:31.50 | figlfdev | then cut that part out to upload to other sites (cant, nd license. drag.) |
| 21:32.18 | dimkr | "thats like uploading rms to youtube" << lol |
| 21:33.33 | figlfdev | the problem with rms is that all his logic is like functional programming. hes already enclosed "put that on youtube as a joke" within the "dont put it on youtube" function. |
| 21:33.54 | figlfdev | rms would be a lot more fun if he werent stateless, but he wouldnt be as consistent. |
| 21:34.31 | figlfdev | (im not saying its worth it, just that the temptation never goes away) |
| 21:37.14 | figlfdev | like all functional programming, bugs are less likely to be introduced, but if you manage to ever get one in you will have a heck of a time removing it |
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| 21:47.10 | dimkr | gnite all |
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| 21:50.30 | litko | im trying to get devuan to work on a mac |
| 21:50.37 | litko | is this easy? |
| 21:50.47 | figlfdev | should be. ive run ubuntu on a mac. |
| 21:50.53 | figlfdev | but not in a while... |
| 21:51.14 | figlfdev | assumes macbook, intel processor-- rather than older powerpc models |
| 21:51.15 | litko | so theres no point first installing debian wheezy and then updating to devuan |
| 21:51.27 | figlfdev | couldnt tell you-- but probably not. |
| 21:51.32 | litko | yes intel macbook very old |
| 21:51.58 | figlfdev | ive only tried the intel ones. and one emac (which was powerpc but i didnt run any other os on it) |
| 21:52.38 | figlfdev | very old = 5 years? |
| 21:52.42 | litko | looking to just put devuan on there |
| 21:52.51 | litko | yes 5 years |
| 21:52.59 | litko | even older probably |
| 21:53.03 | figlfdev | ive only run live. it worked okay, couldnt get the wifi to work of course |
| 21:53.11 | figlfdev | the one i used was probably about 5 years old, maybe 6 |
| 21:53.18 | figlfdev | i mean it would be now. |
| 21:53.41 | litko | so what are my options installer wise |
| 21:53.42 | figlfdev | there is one thing, of course-- |
| 21:53.54 | figlfdev | ive never installed it, because you can screw up the efi. |
| 21:53.58 | litko | it would be an offline install from dvd right? |
| 21:54.08 | litko | yeah i read about the efi |
| 21:54.09 | figlfdev | so i dont know your options with regard to bootloader, etc. |
| 21:54.31 | figlfdev | like i said, i ran it live. if id screwed up the bootloader my friend wouldve been really pissed. |
| 21:54.45 | figlfdev | his macbook, though it ran ubuntu okay |
| 21:54.57 | figlfdev | efi on those things is a little finnicky |
| 21:55.02 | litko | theres some gentoo guys that have gotten it working with grub efi or something |
| 21:55.14 | figlfdev | yeah, i bet its doable. just not as easy as another machine |
| 21:55.16 | litko | but it sounded real complicated |
| 21:55.24 | figlfdev | same here. sounds complicated. |
| 21:55.35 | figlfdev | and ive done a lot of installs |
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| 21:55.58 | figlfdev | not sure its worth it, but that all depends on what you want |
| 21:56.10 | litko | so what are my options? rEFInd and keep osx |
| 21:56.20 | litko | well i just want it running linux |
| 21:56.34 | litko | osx is totally unusable at this point |
| 21:56.37 | figlfdev | it would be nice if you could make it boot automatically from usb, without having to hold down 2-4 keys on every boot at the right moment. |
| 21:56.51 | figlfdev | well, if youre not using it for anything else, it might be worth trying it. |
| 21:57.07 | figlfdev | ive never had a sacrificial macbook to play with :) it sounds like fun. |
| 21:57.28 | litko | yeah i mean i dont wanna kill it |
| 21:57.29 | figlfdev | and you can still change the battery on that one, yeah? bonus :) |
| 21:57.36 | figlfdev | no, of course not |
| 21:57.49 | litko | but if the efi is messed up i can just run osx install cds again right? |
| 21:58.16 | figlfdev | i honestly dont know. it should never be so dire just to install an os from usb, but youd have to ask the gentoo guys (maybe) |
| 21:58.18 | litko | yeah removable battery |
| 21:59.09 | figlfdev | if it were me, id look for a distro that was designed for this (if one exists) and then dist-upgrade to devuan. but thats a risk too! its just the one i would feel comfortable with. |
| 21:59.32 | figlfdev | definitely look for people experienced with macbook installs. |
| 21:59.43 | figlfdev | as you obviously have already |
| 22:00.04 | litko | yeah not sure where to look apart from forums |
| 22:00.14 | figlfdev | im interested, but not knowledgable |
| 22:00.30 | figlfdev | im also curious what the best place to go is |
| 22:00.56 | figlfdev | but you always have the option of running from usb. its just not as cool or convenient everyday. |
| 22:01.16 | litko | yeah i guess |
| 22:01.19 | figlfdev | if you screw up efi, who knows if even that will work? |
| 22:01.38 | litko | wow so this efi thing is not to be taken lightly |
| 22:01.41 | figlfdev | maybe look for how to fix efi if its screwed up. maybe youll feel more confident after that :) |
| 22:01.50 | litko | haha yeah |
| 22:01.52 | figlfdev | not imo. but then my opinion isnt the final word on it at all |
| 22:01.54 | fsmithred | good advice |
| 22:02.09 | fsmithred | I've been doing efi installs all day |
| 22:02.12 | figlfdev | thanks fsr |
| 22:02.25 | fsmithred | ubuntu, devuan, refracta |
| 22:02.30 | litko | u have? |
| 22:02.37 | fsmithred | well, ubuntu was a few days ago, and it's gone |
| 22:02.40 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 22:02.48 | litko | are you keeping the original osx on there |
| 22:02.52 | fsmithred | unfortunately, I have no clue what's going on |
| 22:03.01 | fsmithred | no, no osx, no mac here |
| 22:03.04 | fsmithred | sorry |
| 22:03.36 | fsmithred | devuan will install with efi |
| 22:03.42 | fsmithred | but not with secure boot |
| 22:03.50 | fsmithred | ububu will do secure boot |
| 22:03.54 | litko | i forgot windows use efi now as well |
| 22:05.07 | fsmithred | adding a second linux after I got devuan going, I killed the bootloader somehow |
| 22:05.07 | figlfdev | no secure boot on 6 year old macbook afaik. but i cant imagine apples efi is designed to play well with anything but apple |
| 22:05.26 | fsmithred | had to boot the devuan iso in recovery mode and reinstall boot loader |
| 22:05.28 | figlfdev | only that some people obviously get it to work anyway. with some degree of effort. |
| 22:06.02 | litko | arch guys have it working but i want to avoid systemd |
| 22:06.24 | figlfdev | windows uses a relatively standard uefi. i dont know if the older apple version is really proprietary or non-standard, just that its the kind of thing they do. |
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| 22:06.50 | fsmithred | you got a hard drive or ssd in that macbook? |
| 22:06.56 | litko | hard drive |
| 22:06.57 | figlfdev | (and afaik with uefi, theres no such thing as standard-- just more standard and less standard) |
| 22:07.14 | fsmithred | ok, so if you run from usb stick, you won't really notice a difference in speed |
| 22:07.31 | fsmithred | unless you're using a stopwatch |
| 22:07.45 | litko | its usb 2 afaik |
| 22:07.54 | fsmithred | yeah, that's all I use |
| 22:08.32 | fsmithred | well, actually, right now I'm using an old ide drive connected to laptop with usb adapter |
| 22:08.45 | fsmithred | I do notice that it's slow |
| 22:09.16 | fsmithred | but I've run from usb on several laptops, and it always seems fast enough |
| 22:09.30 | litko | yeah i guess it depends on the usb as well |
| 22:09.47 | litko | some sticks jus perform better |
| 22:09.57 | fsmithred | true |
| 22:10.49 | litko | it only has 2 usb ports from what i can see |
| 22:10.53 | figlfdev | the only real issue with usb on a macbook (imo) is the timed key combo you need to boot from it. |
| 22:11.17 | figlfdev | you have to wait for a noise, then hold down multiple keys. if you could make it the default, that ought to suffice. |
| 22:11.20 | fsmithred | ? |
| 22:11.26 | litko | and since linux doesnt support facetimehd i would need a usb webcam |
| 22:11.28 | figlfdev | for booting devuan on a macbook |
| 22:11.37 | figlfdev | at least of the vintage being discussed. |
| 22:12.24 | litko | so its tricky even with usb |
| 22:12.37 | figlfdev | not very. more like mildly annoying. |
| 22:12.52 | fsmithred | run osx in a vm? |
| 22:13.08 | fsmithred | ducks |
| 22:13.25 | litko | yeh i was planning to put devuan minmal install on there |
| 22:13.34 | fsmithred | brb |
| 22:14.04 | litko | and run any osx i need programs as vms |
| 22:14.12 | figlfdev | does osx even like a vm? |
| 22:14.36 | figlfdev | for running in, obviously it runs other things in one |
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| 22:15.00 | litko | ive tried it on virtualbox and it works |
| 22:15.06 | figlfdev | cool |
| 22:15.15 | litko | kqemu should be faster |
| 22:15.26 | litko | close to native speeds on apple hardware |
| 22:18.12 | litko | or kvm i think its called nowadays |
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| 23:33.05 | jsfarinet | hi all |
| 23:39.51 | jsfarinet | Someone here has an idea where to check why i do not have zram support with the kernel? It's for 3.16 as well as for 4.6 - but i know it should work! |
| 23:39.58 | jsfarinet | zgrep ZRAM /proc/config.gz |
| 23:40.00 | jsfarinet | gzip: /proc/config.gz: No such file or directory |
| 23:40.14 | jsfarinet | clueless |
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