| 00:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | man bash|less +"/^ *Coprocesses" |
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| 00:27.02 | jsfarinet | Re hi all. |
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| 00:31.31 | jsfarinet | Earlier today i asked for help with a failing installation. Now, i solved this problem in some way using the instructions of devlfanboy on github for a minimal installation |
| 00:32.49 | jsfarinet | and from there on i started further. But now, i encounter another problem: Seems there are lost, in all that hassle, all users & passwords. I cannot login even as root. |
| 00:33.39 | jsfarinet | Is there a way to re-establish (a) root? From there it would be not that big problem to reorganise the user(s) ... |
| 00:43.28 | golinux | jsfarinet: I've always used this: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=53040&p=305789&#p305789 |
| 00:55.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | muses about "init=/bin/sh" |
| 00:57.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | or boot into an arbitrary auxiliary (live-CD) linux system, mount the /-partition of the flawed install, edit the etc/passwd and etc/shadow files |
| 00:59.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | jsfarinet: what exactly is lost? the knowledge about the passwords, or the user accounts aka entries in /etc/passwd? |
| 01:03.01 | jsfarinet | golinux: That's if the root is still working. But i cannot login as root as well - and it's always from the commandline (still there is no xorg installed - that has to come later ;) ) |
| 01:04.02 | jsfarinet | Doc: No, my memory is still working. It is that the commandline does not accept the logins anymore |
| 01:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | that might be nuked /etc/passwd then |
| 01:05.28 | jsfarinet | I'll have to check that ... In this moment i'm using a netbook ;) |
| 01:06.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | booting with init=/bin/sh on the kernel cmdline should give you a shell with root permissions that should be able to edit the passwd file |
| 01:06.08 | jsfarinet | So, i could boot let's say from the gentoo rescue iso |
| 01:06.15 | jsfarinet | and from there then edit |
| 01:06.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 01:06.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's been my second suggestion |
| 01:07.01 | jsfarinet | Ok. Just a question for bin/sh |
| 01:07.50 | jsfarinet | Do you know by chance which key to put lilo in interactive mode? Well i could google, but may be you know that ... ;) |
| 01:07.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see passwd(1) --root CHROOT_DIR option |
| 01:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | lilo? hey no, but wpwrak would know |
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| 01:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | does devuan use lilo? |
| 01:10.59 | jsfarinet | It offers it as an option |
| 01:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((--root)) this would be (in arbitrary linux live CD system) mount /dev/sda1(??) /mnt; passwd --root /mnt root |
| 01:13.40 | jsfarinet | Ok, sounds good! Thanks a lot to you!!! Seems from tomorrow on i'll have a nice working devuan machine (with jwm! desktop) :) :) |
| 01:14.20 | jsfarinet | I'll try out openrc on it ... |
| 01:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you use the "init=/bin/sh" approach, you already have set "root=" to use the correct HDD partition, so passwd should work without that --root parameter |
| 01:15.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | caveat! I didn't touch that stuff for ages, and might possibly be terribly wrong |
| 01:16.11 | jsfarinet | In grub it would be an "on the fly command" like "append init=/bin/sh" (or without the <append>?)? |
| 01:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | err prolly yes, though you might run into problems when the kernel cmdline has two init= definitions |
| 01:17.03 | jsfarinet | Doc: don't worry. There went so much wrong that i wouldn't mind about just another error ;) |
| 01:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | or a init= plus a initrd= |
| 01:17.59 | jsfarinet | Then, there is probably a third option: Rescue mode of the Jessie Devuan installer iso ... ? |
| 01:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | using initrd prolly won't fly since that most likely won't look for any init= parameter and always starting the sysv-init |
| 01:19.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's the easiest approach, and it's the second option I mentioned |
| 01:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "arbitrary live CD" option |
| 01:19.39 | jsfarinet | Yep, but the rescue mode does the chroot for you |
| 01:19.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly, yes |
| 01:20.14 | jsfarinet | In the end it asks you if you want to execute a shell in / |
| 01:20.46 | jsfarinet | but having established before the net configuration |
| 01:21.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't need a real chroot, you simply use the --root parameter to point passwd(1) to the mountpoint of the failed system's root partition. However the rescueOS prolly does that mount for you |
| 01:22.24 | jsfarinet | the arbitrary live cd eventually has the advanage of a gui ;) |
| 01:22.38 | jsfarinet | advantage |
| 01:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly an advantage, yes. YMMV |
| 01:23.24 | jsfarinet | Ok. It's really late here. Have to go to sleep .... Thanks a lot again!!!! :) |
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| 01:54.20 | FNTM-U3 | blueness: Hi how could I install nvidia binary on hardened kernel. I hear about a patch but I don't know more. could you help? |
| 01:54.45 | FNTM-U3 | maybe point me to the right direction? |
| 01:54.51 | FNTM-U3 | thank you |
| 02:31.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | man systemd: >> System unit directories The systemd system manager reads unit configuration from various directories. Packages that want to install unit files shall place them in the directory returned by pkg-config systemd --variable=systemdsystemunitdir.<< |
| 02:31.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> pkg-config systemd --variable=systemdsystemunitdir |
| 02:31.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Package systemd was not found in the pkg-config search path. |
| 02:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, systemd makes it SOOO EEEEAAASY to write and install your own unit files, instead of the messy old initscripts¡ BWAHAHAHA |
| 02:35.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Other directories checked are /usr/local/lib/systemd/system and /usr/lib/systemd/system<< W*T*F?! |
| 02:51.27 | ksx4system | weird malware is acting weird, business as usual |
| 02:52.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and the manpage is an abomination |
| 02:53.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't get me started on the allegedly soooo simple unitfiles. I just looked into syslogd.service and puked |
| 02:54.58 | ksx4system | DocScrutinizer05: I'm not even trying to look there, I'd prefer some more interesting death than choking with my own puke because of fucking systemd documentation |
| 02:56.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even mentioning the idiocy of symlink to -> /usr/lib/systemd/system/rsyslog.service, which is obne of the reasons why systemd forbids having /usr/ on a separate volume like it's always been defined to be |
| 02:57.20 | ksx4system | dat clarity, dat common sense based development |
| 02:57.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah. gotta adore it |
| 02:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's wrong with /lib/systemd/system/rsyslog.service when those suckers really want stuff in *lib* |
| 02:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | why /usr ? |
| 02:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | trolls |
| 03:01.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/81537474 is not in any way "simple" either |
| 03:03.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL @ ExecStartPre=/usr/sbin/rsyslog-service-prepare |
| 03:09.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://susepaste.org/98731394 /usr/sbin/rsyslog-service-prepare -- when evaluating whether systemd unit files are simpler than oldschool initscripts, having that stuff in such a file is cheating at the worst |
| 03:14.57 | furrywolf | lol |
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| 05:40.22 | zdzichu | what this rsyslog unit is an abomination |
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| 07:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((lilo)) <wpwrak> (lilo) shift should do nicely |
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| 10:43.03 | jsfarinet | Hi all! |
| 10:44.16 | jsfarinet | Thanks to you for your help tonight. Seems, the major problems with the failing installation are solved .... |
| 10:45.11 | jsfarinet | Using passwd i deleted the root passwd - and now, for the moment i can log-in as root. The questions i still have are 2: |
| 10:45.49 | jsfarinet | 1) How i would re-establish the/a root password. Using passwd as root? |
| 10:46.51 | jsfarinet | 2) I have /home on a separate partition (with the content of a corrupted and crashed installation). I did not touch that during the installation, the |
| 10:47.44 | jsfarinet | home/user directory with all the content is still there |
| 10:48.57 | jsfarinet | I defined - in fstab - /dev/sda4 with the mountpoint /home |
| 10:49.43 | jsfarinet | Now, can i simply add user and it will point to the *OLD* user in /home/user ? |
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| 11:09.36 | KatolaZ | jsfarinet: maybe |
| 11:13.17 | KatolaZ | jsfarinet: I mean, if the uid remains the same, you won't have problems |
| 11:13.35 | KatolaZ | if it does not, you will have to fiddle a bit with chown |
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| 11:16.31 | jsfarinet | KatolaZ: UUID rested. I only deleted and reformatted (during the installation) the / partition. |
| 11:17.26 | KatolaZ | nope |
| 11:17.33 | KatolaZ | I am referring to the uid |
| 11:17.35 | KatolaZ | user-id |
| 11:17.39 | KatolaZ | of your user |
| 11:18.00 | jsfarinet | Btw: I saw, there are also others, having the same problems like me during the installation of the base system. Shouldn't we have a look at the installer as a whole? |
| 11:18.03 | KatolaZ | the third field in the passwd line of your used |
| 11:18.19 | KatolaZ | I believe we should have a new installer :D |
| 11:18.21 | jsfarinet | KatolaZ Ok, i see. Thanks for the pointer!!! :) |
| 11:19.32 | jsfarinet | Unfortunately i'm not a help. I'd like to be able, but ... :-( |
| 11:19.52 | KatolaZ | I think we need to start simple, again |
| 11:20.05 | KatolaZ | things stop working when they get too complicated |
| 11:20.20 | jsfarinet | +1 |
| 11:20.23 | KatolaZ | it's true that the job of the installer is tricky |
| 11:20.37 | KatolaZ | since it has to take into account a lot of different things |
| 11:20.39 | KatolaZ | but still |
| 11:20.53 | KatolaZ | I believe that there is room for improvement over d-i |
| 11:21.59 | jsfarinet | I do not know, if you have seen it, but i am amazed how easy the installation is when you boot from a manjaro live iso ... |
| 11:22.28 | KatolaZ | I am experimenting myself with something even easier on the minimal-live images |
| 11:22.45 | jsfarinet | I am curious ... :) |
| 11:22.58 | KatolaZ | then you will have to wait |
| 11:23.03 | KatolaZ | it's not ready for production yet |
| 11:23.05 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 11:23.05 | jsfarinet | :) |
| 11:24.13 | jsfarinet | For them moment, i think i can continue now, with putting together the stuff for a nice jwm based devuan desktop ... |
| 11:25.05 | KatolaZ | please do |
| 11:25.13 | KatolaZ | even if I don't know jwm |
| 11:25.18 | KatolaZ | and might not use it ever |
| 11:25.19 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 11:25.20 | jsfarinet | irrwahn, when he has some spare time, will try to tweak the debian menu system so we could have a nice automatic menu without any external helper |
| 11:25.30 | KatolaZ | that's great |
| 11:25.31 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 11:26.09 | jsfarinet | Actually, sorry but ... the debian menu system is a pain in the a** :-( |
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| 11:27.17 | jsfarinet | I know your dedication to the server/administration side - and that's pretty much ok for me. Although i hope there will ever rest a little niche for simple users ;) |
| 11:29.17 | KatolaZ | I believe that what you call "simple users" are not a niche |
| 11:29.28 | KatolaZ | and should not be considered a niche at all |
| 11:29.40 | KatolaZ | the most important thing is having freedom of choice |
| 11:29.53 | KatolaZ | avoiding to encumber people life with useless stuff |
| 11:30.07 | KatolaZ | let everybody find their way through GNU/Linux |
| 11:30.24 | KatolaZ | I usually say that free software is like underpants |
| 11:30.43 | KatolaZ | it is *perfect* only if it fits your style/mood/preferences |
| 11:31.23 | KatolaZ | otherwise it gives you the same pain of badly-chosen underpants: they just make your day *sad* |
| 12:01.54 | jsfarinet | Well said :) |
| 12:03.06 | jsfarinet | Just another question, booting i see there is an error of fsck with the partition keeping the / directory. It fails to check it |
| 12:04.24 | jsfarinet | it is like the volume was read only. When i'm doing "mount -o remount,rw /dev/sda3 /" all is fine. How can i make the read-write status permanent? |
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| 13:27.23 | fsmithred | is a follower of KatolaZ's Underpants Theory of Software |
| 13:29.01 | GeneralStupid | is anyone able to help me WITH systemd? i cannot sync my time and this desktop is using "systemd-timesyncd" |
| 13:29.25 | GeneralStupid | is there a way to set up a global proxy in debian (with systemd?)? |
| 13:29.25 | djph | kind of the wrong place to ask GeneralStupid ... |
| 13:32.01 | GeneralStupid | djph: systemd makes it a PITA to configure time. this was SO easy |
| 13:32.41 | djph | GeneralStupid: well, yeah ... but given that "devuan" is pretty much "anti-systemd" ... finding someone who knows it is going to be difficult |
| 13:33.44 | Leander256 | unless you used a /ame, which is considered bad etiquette |
| 13:34.11 | Leander256 | well, not a /ame exactly, but sending the same sentence to every open channel |
| 13:35.04 | GeneralStupid | i dont like #debian -.- |
| 13:36.37 | GeneralStupid | btw. iam not using systemd @home. systemd now does timesyncing too |
| 13:39.30 | djph | GeneralStupid: what part of "anti-systemd" makes no sense? |
| 13:40.16 | GeneralStupid | i was just confused that timesyncing is smthg a init does. |
| 13:42.07 | djph | GeneralStupid: systemd is a virus that inserts itself into practically everything. DEVUAN DOESN'T USE IT |
| 13:43.18 | djph | by default, init is sysvinit, and there is ~nothing~ systemd related in devuan jessie (IIRC, MAYBE a hook to some systemd fake api to make things think its there til people get around to ripping out the systemd depends) |
| 13:45.28 | KatolaZ | GeneralStupid: sorry for my ignorance, but can't you just use ntpd? |
| 13:45.39 | KatolaZ | (again, sorry if the question is totally stupid) |
| 13:46.30 | djph | KatolaZ: he started off with "how do I make systemd do time" ... I'm not entirely sure he groks the whole "no systemd" angle of devuan ... |
| 13:46.44 | djph | then again, it may be my lack of caffeine |
| 13:47.16 | KatolaZ | djph: I am genuinely interested in finding out whether ntpd is obsolete in a systemd-powered (tm) environment |
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| 13:48.07 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, I've got a debian jessie with systemd in virtualbox. I can try it. |
| 13:48.54 | djph | KatolaZ: no idea, I run upstart (Ubuntu 14.04) and sysvinit (Devuan Desktop) |
| 13:50.06 | KatolaZ | I wouldn't be surprised if systemd would have swallawed time management as well... |
| 13:50.32 | djph | been avoiding systemd (even on VMs) because it seems kind of hypocritical to me, given that I'm not really actively helping get rid of it ("systemd = bad ... but I have it on this VM") |
| 13:51.22 | djph | er, right ... editing messed that up ... should be 'hypocritical ("systemd [...]"), because not actively [...]" |
| 13:51.25 | GeneralStupid | KatolaZ: i guess i could. but it dosnt work. Maybe its a network issue -.- |
| 13:51.30 | fsmithred | wow, my systemd jessie won't boot |
| 13:51.47 | GeneralStupid | fsmithred: nothing new to me :D |
| 13:51.51 | fsmithred | but I do see that ntpdate tried to find some servers and failed. |
| 13:52.04 | GeneralStupid | and there is ntpdate-debian -.- |
| 13:52.44 | fsmithred | and the last error in the journal is that /bin/plymouth couldn't be executed. Well, no surprise - I never installed it. |
| 13:56.52 | djph | fsmithred: (not)working as intended, by the sounds of it |
| 13:57.07 | fsmithred | I gonna try single |
| 13:57.38 | fsmithred | it's a problem with the encrypted /home, I think |
| 13:58.21 | fsmithred | coolest thing is after I give root password, and then try systemctl default, it asks for the luks passphrase and shows it in plain text as I type it. |
| 13:59.05 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: you might want to try time-a.nist.gov |
| 13:59.23 | fsmithred | lol, I can't get any network. |
| 13:59.55 | fsmithred | oh, yes I can |
| 14:01.52 | ryuujin | uhm |
| 14:03.52 | fsmithred | can't find host tim-a.nist.gov |
| 14:03.56 | fsmithred | time |
| 14:04.14 | fsmithred | but it does work with a time server I know |
| 14:04.38 | KatolaZ | time-a.nist.gov |
| 14:04.49 | fsmithred | and systemd-timesyncd gives me "command not found." |
| 14:04.50 | KatolaZ | ^^^^^ |
| 14:04.53 | fsmithred | yeah, that's what I did |
| 14:05.41 | fsmithred | oops, I did "tima" the first time. |
| 14:05.58 | KatolaZ | time-a, time-b, etc |
| 14:06.15 | fsmithred | yeah, it worked when I spelled it right. |
| 14:06.21 | KatolaZ | cool |
| 14:06.28 | fsmithred | tima-a didn't work |
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| 14:19.38 | fsmithred | GeneralStupid, you can probably get a good answer at forums.debian.net |
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| 14:44.13 | Ryushin | Am I wrong, or does the snapd package only seem to have a systemd service? |
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| 14:45.22 | Ryushin | snapd look promising. |
| 14:46.43 | jaromil | sure, as promising as juju |
| 14:50.35 | jsfarinet | someone can point me to some usefull links to understand for what dbus is good or not |
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| 15:21.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.gifbits.com/2015/03/watching-systemd-evolve.html is dead :-/ could we please have a secure backup somewhere of: |
| 15:21.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd hungry |
| 15:21.54 | infobot | [systemd hungry] http://www.gifbits.com/2015/03/watching-systemd-evolve.html |
| 15:22.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | err http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/112502661235/watching-systemd-evolve is dead |
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| 16:05.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels tempted to install a pre-systemd OpenSuse (prolly 11.x then) just to compare and prove the increase in complexity with systemd |
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| 16:34.30 | jsfarinet | Re-hi all! Someone knows of an alternative to the regular Jessie installer? I'm unable to get Devuan installed with it, it fails always during the installation of the base system |
| 16:35.01 | jsfarinet | with the error rsyslog needs libsjon-c2 which is not installed. |
| 16:35.59 | jsfarinet | I tried in various ways, but it always ended in a fiasco. May be if i'd be a more capable linux user, i would succeed, but in state as it is, it's senseless, for me |
| 16:36.35 | Akuli | just switch the tty and install it yourself? |
| 16:36.43 | jsfarinet | to continue with the regular installation iso. |
| 16:36.43 | Akuli | Ctrl+Alt+F2 |
| 16:37.03 | Akuli | there's one alternative way, but its definitely not easier :) |
| 16:37.27 | Akuli | like this https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/amd64/apds03.html.en |
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| 16:40.52 | KatolaZ | jsfarinet: which medium are you using??? |
| 16:42.14 | jsfarinet | usb stick |
| 16:43.04 | KatolaZ | which flavour of the installer? |
| 16:43.24 | jsfarinet | akuli: that does not work since libsjon-c2 does not exist as a package |
| 16:43.36 | jsfarinet | beta 1.0 jessie |
| 16:43.38 | KatolaZ | CD? |
| 16:43.42 | KatolaZ | DVD? |
| 16:43.47 | KatolaZ | netinst? |
| 16:43.55 | jsfarinet | ah ok wait |
| 16:43.59 | jsfarinet | cd |
| 16:44.05 | jsfarinet | 644 mb |
| 16:44.09 | KatolaZ | very strange |
| 16:44.15 | KatolaZ | wait |
| 16:44.56 | KatolaZ | which architecture? |
| 16:45.24 | jsfarinet | akuli I even tried with devlfanboy's minimal install (on github) but that brought to enormous problems - at least for me |
| 16:45.34 | jsfarinet | katolaz: amd64 |
| 16:46.28 | jsfarinet | May be it's by combination: *this* installer with *this* computer (?) |
| 16:47.23 | jsfarinet | laptop is sony vaio core 7, nvidia graphics, 16 gig ram, 750 gig hd ... |
| 16:49.15 | jsfarinet | The netinstaller would be an option? |
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| 16:54.26 | KatolaZ | have you checked the md5sum of the image you got? |
| 16:54.31 | KatolaZ | jsfarinet: ^^^ |
| 16:55.16 | KatolaZ | sorry, it's a SHA256sum |
| 16:55.21 | KatolaZ | not md5 |
| 16:56.11 | KatolaZ | 2fa1bf7d9b9ca3a948f9a658fe64d56f1679f4aa0bcd85c8a09ce4a3cbf4bc38 devuan_jessie_1.0.0-beta_amd64_CD.iso |
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| 17:20.46 | jsfarinet | yes! |
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| 17:29.24 | fsmithred | jsfarinet, do you have a network connection during the installation? |
| 17:30.28 | jsfarinet | sure |
| 17:31.17 | fsmithred | oh, ok. figured I'd check. |
| 17:31.38 | jsfarinet | actually i try the netinst.iso ... keeping the fingers crossed |
| 17:31.57 | fsmithred | they all do netinstall only (until beta2) |
| 17:32.30 | jsfarinet | :-( same error .... :-( |
| 17:33.36 | fsmithred | how attached are you to using the devuan beta installer? |
| 17:34.10 | fsmithred | more to the point - can you install wheezy on the laptop? |
| 17:34.28 | jsfarinet | Not at all - i want to have devuan on that machine, doesn't matter how |
| 17:34.44 | fsmithred | it's easy to upgrade to devuan jessie from there, especially if it's a minimal install |
| 17:34.51 | jsfarinet | why not, are there any cons? |
| 17:35.01 | KatolaZ | jsfarinet: that's VERY strange |
| 17:35.15 | KatolaZ | have you tried with another USB stick? |
| 17:35.44 | KatolaZ | I mean, everybody is installing Devuan in the same way |
| 17:35.54 | KatolaZ | you simply can't have the same iorreproducible error |
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| 17:41.19 | KatolaZ | I mean, jsfarinet you *can*, but that's weird... |
| 17:42.10 | fsmithred | I agree that it's weird |
| 17:42.43 | fsmithred | maybe try us.devuan.org if you haven't already tried that |
| 17:43.02 | fsmithred | that should be us.mirror.devuan.org, I think |
| 17:44.02 | KatolaZ | I would try first another USB stick.... |
| 17:44.05 | KatolaZ | just in case... |
| 17:48.36 | jsfarinet | here's lunch time - will be back in 40 minutes |
| 17:49.07 | jsfarinet | i tried another usb stick - the netinst is on a different stick |
| 17:50.12 | jsfarinet | what i do is try to install ascii choose all components, format the hd manually, then install of the base system fails |
| 17:51.13 | jsfarinet | i also tried to install jessie or ceres - always the same. My guess is, that's to do with the machine: the same iso worked on a samsung .... |
| 17:51.45 | KatolaZ | mmmhhh |
| 17:51.52 | KatolaZ | have you tried from an actual cdrom? |
| 17:53.17 | KatolaZ | doesn't know what to suggest... |
| 17:53.19 | golinux | fsmithred: Or he could install the 'unofficial' Devuan refracta. |
| 17:53.36 | golinux | I have never had the refractinstaller fail |
| 17:54.14 | fsmithred | yeah, if you want to start with the full xfce desktop in jessie, you could use the unofficial live |
| 17:54.46 | fsmithred | it will install everything from the media |
| 17:55.30 | KatolaZ | well, it might be better to understand which corner-case jsfarinet has hit..... |
| 17:55.31 | fsmithred | which reminds me... golinux, is anyone going to package the devuan theme, or would you like it packaged? |
| 17:56.05 | fsmithred | true - workaround won't solve the actual problem |
| 17:56.44 | golinux | jaromil has promised it would be in beta2 but I have no idea if that has happened. |
| 17:57.03 | fsmithred | "in" is not the same as packaged. |
| 17:58.59 | golinux | Centurion_Dan is still buried in work have non idea if he has done it or not. He had a conversation on IRC the other day about packaging |
| 18:00.10 | Irrwahn | jsfarinet, fsmithred, KatolaZ: I'm able to reproduce the installation error. It happens when installing Ascii (in Expert Mode, obviously) |
| 18:00.46 | Irrwahn | Jessie works fine, as expected. |
| 18:02.15 | KatolaZ | Irrwahn: I thought we were talking about beta.... |
| 18:02.19 | KatolaZ | I also had problems with ascii |
| 18:02.28 | Irrwahn | [19:50:12] <jsfarinet> what i do is try to install ascii [...] |
| 18:02.28 | KatolaZ | with libpam-systemd, to be precise |
| 18:02.35 | KatolaZ | ooops |
| 18:02.50 | KatolaZ | jsfarinet: are you trying to install ascii? |
| 18:02.58 | golinux | fsmithred: He said not to work from debs but from a VCS - Version Control System |
| 18:03.01 | Irrwahn | I guessed he tries installing Ascii using the Jessie beta installer, so that is what I just tried. |
| 18:03.46 | golinux | Don't know if that applies to the theming. |
| 18:04.05 | Irrwahn | jsfarinet: Better install Jessie and dist-upgrade later. |
| 18:04.22 | golinux | I thought the way to get to ascii was to start with Jessie and upgrade from there. |
| 18:04.42 | golinux | HA! You beat me to it!! |
| 18:04.43 | KatolaZ | I think it is better to avoid ascii for the moment being |
| 18:04.50 | Irrwahn | golinux: ;) |
| 18:05.00 | KatolaZ | there are a few pending issues that prevent the installation of several packages |
| 18:05.05 | KatolaZ | as I experienced myself |
| 18:05.49 | Irrwahn | I'm using Ascii right now, but yes, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to inexperienced users. |
| 18:06.17 | KatolaZ | I would not recommend it for production, either of experienced or inexperienced users |
| 18:06.26 | golinux | always runs stable till it's past EOL |
| 18:06.29 | KatolaZ | and I have been using only Debian testing so far |
| 18:06.56 | Irrwahn | Well, it's my home machine, and I'm adventurous. ^^ |
| 18:07.02 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:07.42 | KatolaZ | I am adventorous too, but need to get some work done :D |
| 18:08.38 | Irrwahn | Interestingly I had no major breakage so far; but have to admit I'm using a few angband packages to work around some issues. |
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| 19:22.51 | jsfarinet | What would be the refractainstaller? |
| 19:23.28 | gci_admin | jsfarinet, http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta |
| 19:24.01 | fsmithred | jsfarinet, what are you thinking of doing? |
| 19:24.58 | jsfarinet | Actually, i'm a bit away from the screen - football here ;) |
| 19:25.17 | golinux | No was suggesting the Devuan/refracta live iso. |
| 19:25.19 | jsfarinet | @gci-admin: thanks |
| 19:25.40 | golinux | But it's jessie not ascii |
| 19:26.01 | jsfarinet | @fsmithred: i'll sort out my ideas after ... |
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| 19:26.19 | fsmithred | ok |
| 19:26.24 | jsfarinet | In some way i need ascii: for plank, lxdm etc |
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| 19:32.44 | golinux | So you can upgrade to get to ascii, right? |
| 19:36.29 | fsmithred | good advice I heard is to stay away from ascii now. Might be better to backport any apps needed from ascii, if they're not already in jessie-backports |
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| 19:42.15 | jaromil | we haven't activated backports yet, pending fixes in amprolla |
| 19:46.04 | fsmithred | in that case... http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38976&sid=8a7917ceb32ad84e89b8f4a64266c170 |
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| 19:46.23 | fsmithred | jsfarinet ^^^ |
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| 20:00.36 | Chanku|Mobile | Hey |
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| 20:07.42 | jsfarinet | Sorry, i had a crash ;) |
| 20:12.55 | jaromil | fsmithred: i prefer make install :^) |
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| 21:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I looked into aptitude (first time in my life) and that made me ponder if that's really worth it, compared to convenient simplicity of apt-get or make install, and the way more comprehensive approach of yast package manager |
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| 21:19.18 | golinux | I never warmed to aptitude |
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| 21:23.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what do you suggest to a dull debian noob, for package management? |
| 21:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | just learned there been an effort to port yast to buntkuh... in 2008 :-/ |
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| 21:27.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't be too hard to marry Yast frontend to e.g. zypper backend |
| 21:28.20 | Lydia_K | aptitude is weird, what's wrong with good old apt-get ? |
| 21:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's like the difference between a gimlet and a CNC mill |
| 21:33.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | or let me put it like this: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/06/15/plasma-desktopIc2277.png |
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| 21:33.58 | jsfarinet | @fsmithred I read the readmes of the refracta unofficial devuan isos: Do i understand right, that i install the xfce desktop when i do a "refracta installation"? |
| 21:35.12 | jsfarinet | But, more important: Gives the installer options, on how to deal with the harddisk? I mean, i want to keep untouched my existing /home partition when installing fresh / |
| 21:36.33 | jsfarinet | Doc, when it comes to package managers, i think pacman is the best ... ;) Or, may be, the slackware way ... :P |
| 21:36.35 | fsmithred | jsfarinet, yes, you get xfce desktop |
| 21:37.01 | fsmithred | you can install to one partition and not touch any existing installations |
| 21:37.42 | fsmithred | you can elect not to install the bootloader if you want to avoid grub-install |
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| 21:38.26 | fsmithred | if you want to use your existing /home as /home, make the changes manually after installing to one partition |
| 21:38.56 | fsmithred | otherwise, your home will get formatted |
| 21:39.02 | jsfarinet | @fsmithred But then, afterwards, i've the hassle to deal with chown and all that stuff. The nicest way would be to install only root, run the new devuan and add a user (with the existing /home/username name and the same uid and, zacchete, the old home is the new home :) |
| 21:39.21 | fsmithred | omg, it's three or four commands |
| 21:39.32 | jsfarinet | ;) |
| 21:39.43 | jsfarinet | Yes for you, linux heads ;) |
| 21:39.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/06/15/plasma-desktoptX2277.png http://wstaw.org/m/2016/06/15/plasma-desktopnf2277.png http://wstaw.org/m/2016/06/15/plasma-desktopkX2277.png http://wstaw.org/m/2016/06/15/plasma-desktopmC2277.png http://wstaw.org/m/2016/06/15/plasma-desktopmo2277.png |
| 21:40.07 | fsmithred | boot single user, mv /home /home.orig; mkdir /home ; then add a line to fstab |
| 21:41.21 | fsmithred | what distro owned the old home? |
| 21:41.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lydia_K: a quick {zypper|apt-get} install $whatever is often convenient, but at other times you want a bazaar to choose what you need, and understand what that entails |
| 21:43.26 | fsmithred | jsfarinet, was the old home xfce of the same version as in devuan? |
| 21:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and aptitude 'conveniently¡' *telling* me which dependencies are not met, instead of resolving them already, is pretty 1990 |
| 21:44.13 | tmyklebu | shrug. dwim is fragile. |
| 21:44.22 | jsfarinet | @fsmithread manjaro openrc jwm (i crashed it dealing with qemu while trying to build a nice lxdm login screen in virtual for an eventual devuan jwm deskto ;) |
| 21:45.12 | jsfarinet | p |
| 21:45.25 | Lydia_K | "but at other times you want a bazaar to choose what you need" <- I honestly don't know what you mean by that. |
| 21:45.47 | fsmithred | is user id the same in manjaro and devuan? 1000:1000 |
| 21:45.55 | jsfarinet | yes |
| 21:46.08 | fsmithred | that helps |
| 21:46.51 | fsmithred | are you planning to use the same home for both systems, or are you just switching over? |
| 21:47.01 | jsfarinet | I already succeeded in using that home with the devlfanboy minimal installation but i stumbled into a big and for unsolvible problem on boot |
| 21:47.25 | jsfarinet | switching over - at least i try ;) |
| 21:47.31 | fsmithred | you may get some conflicts with desktop configs |
| 21:48.55 | jsfarinet | I don't think so: I copied the desktop settings one:one onto to a running devuan jessie and it works flawlessly - ok, i run jwm and pekwm based desktops, no icons on the desktop ;) |
| 21:49.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lydia_K: when you don't understand "bazaar" then look at the list of URLs to screenshots I posted above |
| 21:49.26 | jsfarinet | on that big screen of the Vaio, i had a half idea to setup i3 .... |
| 21:49.53 | jsfarinet | but with jwm, you can do nice (pseudo)splitting,so ... |
| 21:50.45 | Lydia_K | DocScrutinizer05: I don't get it, apt-cache search and apt-get have always been more than enough for me. |
| 21:51.11 | Lydia_K | apt-get resolves dependencies, and apt-cache search lets me look at available packages. |
| 21:51.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's you |
| 21:51.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah and dunnowhat even shows versions and changelogs and size and whatnot |
| 21:51.58 | Lydia_K | I'm not trying to be a dick, I just don't understand what bits you like so much. |
| 21:52.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I like the integration |
| 21:52.37 | Lydia_K | Ahhh, ok |
| 21:52.53 | Lydia_K | Hey, that's cool, if that's how you like it to work :) |
| 21:52.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I like the fewer keystrokes to get all info for all packages that are *somehow* related to SSL |
| 21:53.07 | Lydia_K | We all have the little features we really really like. |
| 21:53.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or SSH (had that 2 days ago) |
| 21:54.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, not even yast shows filelists for packages that are not installed |
| 21:54.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that's honestly the only thing I miss in it |
| 21:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it works on X11 (see above), on ncurses, and prolly even on cmdline though I use zypper for that |
| 21:59.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm though zypper is available on debian, a first test suggests it's not playing nice with apt |
| 21:59.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least zypper has no idea of apt's repos |
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| 22:14.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | zypper info $packagename also shows it has no idea of installed packages |
| 22:15.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I prolly need to attend a few lessons of "debian 101 for noobs" |
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| 22:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lydia_K: one example: downgrade - in deb based systems I first need apt-cache policy to check which versions are available at all, then I need internet access and aunt google to look up how to tell apt-get install that I want a particular version. In Yast for example, that's mouse pushing for noobs and clicking on the version you want, in http://wstaw.org/m/2016/06/15/plasma-desktopnf2277.png |
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| 22:30.44 | flrn | <DocScrutinizer05> so what do you suggest to a dull debian noob, for package management?: I am /happy/ when I can convince "a noob" of using synaptic instead of all the other crap around in the debi-verse ;) |
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| 22:36.51 | flrn | even use it myself from time to time, when I want to track down some missing functionality. |
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