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| 04:10.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | n8 |
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| 04:38.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://ipv6excuses.com/ |
| 04:38.57 | Chanku | ? |
| 04:40.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | just fun |
| 04:41.04 | Chanku | Alright |
| 04:41.16 | Chanku | So I decided to install freeciv |
| 04:41.43 | Chanku | and I didn't install freeciv-server....so when I started the gtk version it would say: "Starting local server...." |
| 04:42.06 | Chanku | then say: "Failed to start local server..." "we probably couldn't start it from here..." "you'll have to start it manually....sorry." |
| 04:43.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | "IPv6 is a security threat" was awesome |
| 04:46.22 | tmyklebu | more to the point, how is a 40-byte layer 3 header sane? |
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| 08:26.07 | Olrick | 4 |
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| 12:17.33 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, I think I have success in making a uefi-aware live image. |
| 12:18.58 | fsmithred | sample images for anyone who would test to see if they boot on uefi hardware: |
| 12:19.03 | fsmithred | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/ |
| 12:20.13 | fsmithred | There's one .iso for live CD or isohybrid image on usb, and there's one .img that's just a dd image of a usb stick set up for multiboot (fat32) |
| 12:20.47 | fsmithred | Both images have 'uefi' in the name. login:password user:user or root:root |
| 12:25.13 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: great news |
| 12:25.22 | KatolaZ | I am fiddling with mksquashfs atm |
| 12:25.53 | KatolaZ | trying to use a ramfs to create the image |
| 12:26.08 | Akuli | shouldn't casper do that? |
| 12:26.14 | KatolaZ | so we don't need to store the fs in disk |
| 12:26.20 | KatolaZ | Akuli: what do you mean? |
| 12:26.34 | Akuli | i thought casper was what other distros use for their live isos. |
| 12:26.41 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 12:26.49 | Akuli | i mean, for getting the filesystem in ram |
| 12:26.55 | Akuli | knows nothing :D |
| 12:27.15 | KatolaZ | nono |
| 12:27.19 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:27.37 | KatolaZ | we can already have the filesystem in ram with the current minimal live images |
| 12:27.46 | KatolaZ | live-boot manages it |
| 12:27.51 | KatolaZ | and it seems to be working fine |
| 12:28.06 | KatolaZ | I was talking about the process of building the live image |
| 12:28.17 | Akuli | Oh, right :) |
| 12:28.25 | Akuli | I once used squashfstools to customize an iso |
| 12:28.30 | KatolaZ | ep |
| 12:28.36 | KatolaZ | but it requires an existing fs |
| 12:28.38 | Akuli | it would boot from a dvd just fine, but not from a usb stick |
| 12:28.58 | KatolaZ | that's managed brilliantly by live-build + xorriso |
| 12:29.00 | KatolaZ | it works |
| 12:29.14 | KatolaZ | the problem is avoiding to have two copies of the fs in your disk |
| 12:29.49 | KatolaZ | since when you create the image you construct a copy of the target fs |
| 12:29.55 | KatolaZ | and then you mksquashfs it |
| 12:31.00 | KatolaZ | I am now trying to use a ramfs to avoid that |
| 12:31.02 | KatolaZ | it should work |
| 12:31.04 | KatolaZ | :) |
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| 12:32.45 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:34.14 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: after all we nowadays have GBs of ram :) |
| 12:34.32 | KatolaZ | the minimal live requires less than 700MB unsquashed |
| 12:34.48 | KatolaZ | so it can easily fit into ram anyway |
| 12:34.56 | KatolaZ | and save disk space |
| 12:35.02 | fsmithred | nice |
| 12:37.09 | fsmithred | the only advantage of having a copy on disk is that rsync only has to copy changes. But I guess that's not an issue if you're not writing the copy to disk. |
| 12:38.07 | KatolaZ | yes, but I believe that if we use the ramdisk we actually do not need to "copy" anything |
| 12:38.14 | fsmithred | so your way should be faster than standard refractasnapshot method |
| 12:38.20 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 12:38.25 | KatolaZ | no real copy |
| 12:38.31 | KatolaZ | only references to the actual files |
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| 12:38.50 | KatolaZ | I am working on that |
| 12:39.00 | fsmithred | it has to read them |
| 12:39.06 | fsmithred | doesn't it? |
| 12:39.10 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 12:39.13 | KatolaZ | but no writes |
| 12:39.20 | fsmithred | good |
| 12:39.35 | KatolaZ | as long as you have enough ram on the building machine |
| 12:39.40 | Akuli | Right, reading it from disk to ram would make it a puppy :) |
| 12:39.40 | KatolaZ | to store the whole fs |
| 12:40.02 | KatolaZ | you can avoid having a real copy of your fs |
| 12:40.06 | KatolaZ | working on that |
| 12:40.15 | KatolaZ | I'll let you guys know when it works |
| 12:40.15 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:40.21 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 12:40.45 | fsmithred | that would make it easier to create a live image while you're running from some live media |
| 12:41.36 | KatolaZ | this still requires a bit of a tweaking |
| 12:41.49 | KatolaZ | I mean, to have the fs built out of a running media |
| 12:42.02 | KatolaZ | shouldn't be difficult though |
| 12:42.10 | KatolaZ | I have had little or not ime in the last few days |
| 12:42.17 | KatolaZ | due to some deadline |
| 12:42.21 | fsmithred | I think someone asked about that recently. To do it now, you need to use some hard disk space or an extra partition on your usb stick |
| 12:42.31 | KatolaZ | but I will be back at work on that soon |
| 12:42.50 | KatolaZ | oh sure fsmithred |
| 12:43.05 | KatolaZ | you mean using something like refractasnapshot inside a live image :) |
| 12:43.31 | KatolaZ | that would be cool :) |
| 12:43.35 | fsmithred | yeah, you boot from live CD or USB, make some changes, make a new snapshot |
| 12:43.38 | KatolaZ | but one step at a time |
| 12:43.44 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:44.01 | KatolaZ | I want to have the whole sdk ready for minimal-lives as soon as possible |
| 12:44.04 | KatolaZ | and we are close |
| 12:44.11 | fsmithred | well, I see a major overhaul on some of the tools for uefi compatibility |
| 12:45.06 | fsmithred | my tools, I mean |
| 12:45.29 | KatolaZ | what do you mean, fsmithred |
| 12:45.30 | KatolaZ | ? |
| 12:45.30 | fsmithred | especially refracta2usb, which makes multi-boot usb |
| 12:46.07 | fsmithred | well, if you want to put the uefi iso on a usb stick, you can cc or cat it, because it's isohybrid |
| 12:46.32 | KatolaZ | so? |
| 12:46.43 | fsmithred | but if you want a usb stick with multiple live systems on a real fat32 partition, you need to make the uefi image differently |
| 12:46.53 | fsmithred | usb uses syslinux not isolinux |
| 12:47.14 | fsmithred | and when you make the efi image, you have to tell it to look for either isolinux.cfg or syslinux.cfg |
| 12:47.24 | fsmithred | I haven't figured out a way to tell it to look for either |
| 12:47.25 | KatolaZ | oh I see |
| 12:47.33 | KatolaZ | so you can have either one or the other |
| 12:47.54 | fsmithred | yeah, and that decision needs to be made before you make the snapshot iso |
| 12:48.23 | fsmithred | but that's only if you want multi-boot usb |
| 12:48.28 | KatolaZ | sure |
| 12:49.05 | fsmithred | not something you need to do for releases |
| 12:49.49 | fsmithred | the ones I uploaded will boot in virtualbox, but I couldn't get them to boot with qemu/ovmf |
| 12:50.01 | fsmithred | well, they boot with isolinux, not grub |
| 12:50.36 | fsmithred | need more coffee |
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| 15:10.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | daily systemd-WTF: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394 |
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| 15:12.02 | furrywolf | lol |
| 15:12.12 | furrywolf | that's just... lol |
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| 15:13.33 | furrywolf | let's make things that have always worked just fine instead require using systemd. for no reason. oh, and break them. |
| 15:15.17 | Leander256 | and tell people "you should be happy, there's an option to setup somewhere if you guess correctly which manpage you should have read in the first place about that change" |
| 15:16.44 | furrywolf | and, of course, "we'll discuss that within the team" - because actual public participation in anything systemd-related is unacceptable. |
| 15:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, the löatter is SO TRUE |
| 15:18.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | latter* |
| 15:19.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | invent bullshit, forcefeed it down everybody's throat to test if it works. If it doesn't, "discuss with the team" |
| 15:20.06 | parazyd | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394 |
| 15:20.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | how much more does it take until they're after the systemd cabal with pitchforks and torches |
| 15:20.40 | furrywolf | parazyd: yes? |
| 15:21.08 | parazyd | oh, didn't see backlog :D |
| 15:21.09 | parazyd | hehe |
| 15:22.14 | KatolaZ | debian is definitely going downhill guys |
| 15:22.23 | KatolaZ | that's just insane |
| 15:22.28 | KatolaZ | terribly insane |
| 15:22.43 | KatolaZ | in any unix system you just launch screen and leave your stuff running |
| 15:22.55 | furrywolf | systemd's not unix (tm). |
| 15:22.55 | KatolaZ | now Linux+systemd will be the first exception |
| 15:23.00 | KatolaZ | for no reason at all |
| 15:23.15 | KatolaZ | or, better, just to clean after the garbage left by bad programming |
| 15:23.16 | KatolaZ | :( |
| 15:23.38 | KatolaZ | I know we will all migrate to BSD, sooner or later... :D |
| 15:23.42 | furrywolf | oh, there's many reasons. one obvious one would be to force everyone to write scripts that work with systemd, or work with the rest of the world, with the hope that they get written for systemd, and thus make the software depend on systemd... |
| 15:24.06 | KatolaZ | furrywolf: the problem here is not systemd scripts |
| 15:24.14 | KatolaZ | is simple, bare, user programs |
| 15:24.40 | KatolaZ | I have screen sessions in some machines that have been oper for more than three years so far |
| 15:24.48 | KatolaZ | ~open |
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| 15:24.52 | ksx4system | KatolaZ: only if BSD folks won't break stuff in the similar manner |
| 15:24.58 | KatolaZ | ksx4system: :D |
| 15:25.04 | furrywolf | KatolaZ: yes. and if you have a script for something you like to run in the background, or a program with a good reason to run in the background (such as screen), now you have to decide if you're going to make it work only with systemd, only with everything else, or have to maintain two... |
| 15:25.06 | KatolaZ | you're right! |
| 15:25.18 | KatolaZ | furrywolf: sure |
| 15:25.33 | Lydia_K | OMG, that is insane |
| 15:25.34 | KatolaZ | but anyway, that's pretty depressing guys |
| 15:26.07 | Lydia_K | You can't run processes if you are not logged in? systemd is out of the high preformance computer cluster game. |
| 15:26.13 | furrywolf | it could just be stupidity. you should never assume malice when stupidity is an option. but, when it comes to systemd... |
| 15:26.33 | furrywolf | Lydia_K: oh, you can... you just have to interact with systemd to do it. |
| 15:27.45 | ksx4system | what the actual fuck |
| 15:27.48 | Lydia_K | Yeah, my scientists won't be writing code to talk to some esoteric ABI for something they know nothing about, and don't care about. |
| 15:28.08 | furrywolf | is it stupidity, or is it yet another way of implementing something that will force devs to choose between their programs working on systemd and working everywhere else? |
| 15:28.18 | Lydia_K | Half there stuff are just collections of csh scripts that call other smaller binaries to do the heavy math. |
| 15:28.29 | KatolaZ | Lydia_K: you can run those process, only you have to do that "the-systemd-way" |
| 15:29.21 | KatolaZ | by calling your script through some systemd-cabal |
| 15:29.23 | Lydia_K | like I said, no way my scientists are going to do that extra work, it's insanity, it's a freakin' computer, it's meant to compute. |
| 15:29.36 | KatolaZ | ehehehhe |
| 15:29.56 | Lydia_K | I seriously want to flip my desk right now. |
| 15:30.06 | furrywolf | systemd DOES. NOT. COMPUTE. </bad scifi robot voice> |
| 15:30.23 | Lydia_K | Looks like I'm going to have to move away from CentOS when it comes time to upgrade the OS on the cluster. |
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| 15:30.57 | KatolaZ | Lydia_K: I know of several large clusters which are help back to old versions of scientific linux |
| 15:31.07 | KatolaZ | because they don't want to switch to systemd... |
| 15:31.18 | Lydia_K | I'm still running Cent 6.7 |
| 15:31.19 | KatolaZ | s/help/held |
| 15:31.28 | Lydia_K | cause I'm not putting systemd on there just yet. |
| 15:32.09 | furrywolf | s/just yet/ever |
| 15:33.55 | Lydia_K | If I get hit by a bus they have to be able to hire some knob who can support it, which generally means sticking with the redhat family. It's a corporate environment and I have to make the right choice for the business. |
| 15:34.09 | Lydia_K | That said, perhaps the next iteration will go to devuan afterall. |
| 15:34.12 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: I'm afraid you'll be forced to leave CentOS (and/or Scientifical) |
| 15:35.00 | ksx4system | afaik Devuan is the only well organized binary distro which by default ships without systemd malware |
| 15:35.19 | Lydia_K | I think there are a few others.. there's a list somewhere. |
| 15:35.31 | Lydia_K | Damn, even Rocks is centos based. |
| 15:35.34 | Lydia_K | no love there. |
| 15:35.43 | jsfarinet | What's with alpine linux? |
| 15:35.55 | Lydia_K | isn't that for ARM? |
| 15:36.11 | jsfarinet | No, it's full linux |
| 15:36.11 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: list is here http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#GNU.2FLinux_distributions |
| 15:36.30 | ksx4system | ...and Alpine runs busybox afair |
| 15:36.35 | jsfarinet | arm also. Also Void ... |
| 15:36.41 | Lydia_K | Ah, I just took a look, neat concept, but not right for my needs. |
| 15:37.21 | jsfarinet | Probably, busybox is the way to go (?) |
| 15:37.43 | Lydia_K | I both love and hate busybox. |
| 15:37.51 | jsfarinet | ;) |
| 15:37.52 | furrywolf | systemd will keep finding ways to make normal applications need to interact with it, to try to get more software to depend on it, and more people stuck with it... |
| 15:37.59 | ksx4system | Lydia_K: afaics Alpine now has OpenRC too |
| 15:38.28 | Lydia_K | But it's not glibc based, that will likely screw with some of my scientist's code, they are not linux experts. |
| 15:38.42 | Lydia_K | I need something standard, and devuan is looking like the only option now. |
| 15:39.03 | Akuli | pclinuxos also doesn't use systemd |
| 15:39.06 | jsfarinet | Devuan, for sure is an excellent option |
| 15:39.28 | Akuli | i must say, pclinuxos is an interesting distro |
| 15:39.32 | jsfarinet | What's with, let's say, Manjaro OpenRC ? |
| 15:39.38 | Akuli | they have some rpm based package manager and apt-get |
| 15:39.40 | Akuli | in the same os |
| 15:40.00 | Lydia_K | that is pretty interesting. |
| 15:40.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | MESSYBOX! |
| 15:40.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 15:40.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh!!!"! |
| 15:40.38 | Akuli | akuli@MessyBox $ |
| 15:40.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | !messybox |
| 15:40.40 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 15:40.48 | Akuli | akuli@MessyBox $ mess |
| 15:40.57 | Akuli | lol |
| 15:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | !factinfo messybox |
| 15:41.34 | infobot | messybox -- created by DocScrutinizer05 <~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Fri May 17 13:30:35 2013 (1106 days); last modified at Wed Apr 23 16:25:30 2014 by DocScrutinizer05!~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 29 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 55s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer05. |
| 15:42.24 | furrywolf | bbl, last-minute projects. race is tomorrow. |
| 15:42.39 | KatolaZ | busybox is not a viable solution, in most producton environments |
| 15:42.52 | KatolaZ | despite it is useful in many cases |
| 15:46.06 | jsfarinet | I have a totally different, very simple question to you: is there a place where you can make a request for devuan packages (i.e. packages which actually are missing in the repositories)? |
| 15:46.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | there shouldn't be any (except massively systemd-infested) |
| 15:46.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | !amprolla |
| 15:46.56 | infobot | nextime gave an excellent explanation how amprolla works, at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2016-05-07/?msg=65646427&page=4, or https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla |
| 15:47.35 | furrywolf | do you mean packaging software that's not available in debian? because that's something I'd love to see. |
| 15:47.36 | furrywolf | bbl |
| 15:47.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW when some package is "missing" that's most likely either a misconception or a bug |
| 15:48.14 | Akuli | wtf saved me again, the best command-line utility ever :) |
| 15:48.22 | Akuli | well, chroot has been more important a few times. |
| 15:48.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | !wtf wtf |
| 15:48.33 | Akuli | Nice! |
| 15:48.43 | Akuli | !wtf apt |
| 15:48.48 | Akuli | that's full wtf :) |
| 15:49.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, infobot devels are lazy ;-P |
| 15:49.25 | Akuli | hmm... |
| 15:49.35 | Akuli | !wtf foo; echo this is not secure |
| 15:49.49 | Akuli | !wtf bar; echo this is not secure |
| 15:49.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | a system("wtf %s", cmd) is easy to implement |
| 15:49.57 | Akuli | ok, that didn't work :) |
| 15:50.18 | Akuli | right, i was just thinking if the ; would make it another command |
| 15:50.26 | Akuli | i.e. if that opens up a shell for it |
| 15:50.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, infobot doesn't do proper cmdline parsing |
| 15:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I gues it's mostly escape-exploit-proof |
| 15:52.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are a few (secret) fuckups that instantly terminate the process |
| 15:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | around UTF8 and also in evaluating math expressions |
| 15:54.02 | Akuli | If the bot is written in python it'd be easy to check whether it's secure :) |
| 15:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it isn't |
| 15:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
| 15:54.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | perl iirc |
| 15:54.25 | Akuli | it either does it the right way or it does it the wrong way. That's python. :D |
| 15:54.54 | Akuli | no wait, that's #python the channel, not python the programming language :) |
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| 17:36.28 | Inocuous | is anyone around that could scan my ports for me? |
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| 17:47.47 | golinux | Can't https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 do it for you? |
| 17:51.18 | openfbtd | Inocuous, you don't have a remote shell? :) |
| 17:51.36 | openfbtd | If you're sure you want to give your IP to a stranger, then sure, I can do that. |
| 17:52.10 | KatolaZ | openfbtd: Inocuous's IP is already public in this channel..... |
| 17:52.20 | KatolaZ | 18:33 -!- Inocuous [~Inocuous@44-117-181-66.dsl.sacoriver.net] has joined #devua |
| 17:52.28 | openfbtd | Ah. I didn't bother looking |
| 17:52.52 | KatolaZ | and anyway, knowing the IP of a machine does not mean you have broken into it... :D |
| 17:53.09 | openfbtd | Yes, sure, but people are weird about it |
| 17:53.53 | openfbtd | I've been told my IP is public so much. |
| 17:54.05 | openfbtd | With the meaning of âhaha you're wide openâ |
| 17:54.26 | openfbtd | It's a hezner box, what are you going to figure out knowing my IP |
| 17:54.30 | openfbtd | hetzner* |
| 17:54.32 | Inocuous | I've got an open port, that I haven't been able to trace down on my network. |
| 17:54.54 | KatolaZ | Inocuous: I can scan your IP, if you don't mind |
| 17:54.54 | Inocuous | I'm trying to get someone to scan me once I log off. to see if it's from my router or my modem. |
| 17:55.00 | openfbtd | Also Inocuous might not mean the IP of the machine he's connecting with |
| 17:55.08 | KatolaZ | is it 66.181.117.44? |
| 17:55.17 | openfbtd | Yes it is |
| 17:55.21 | Inocuous | yeah, that's it. |
| 17:55.29 | openfbtd | 7676/tcp open imqbrokerd |
| 17:55.35 | Inocuous | I'll drop out for minute if someone could check it when I'm off line. |
| 17:55.51 | openfbtd | Ah. |
| 17:56.00 | Inocuous | ok? |
| 17:56.21 | openfbtd | No problem, it's not like it takes a lot of effort :) |
| 17:56.59 | openfbtd | You should have a remote shell somewhere though. It's cheap and super useful these days |
| 18:00.25 | KatolaZ | Inocuous: |
| 18:00.39 | KatolaZ | Inocuous: query |
| 18:00.39 | Inocuous | yes |
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| 18:09.35 | KatolaZ | a remote shell would not be that helpful in this cases, since stealth scan works only from root anyway.... |
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| 23:55.25 | fsmithred | I'm old and don't quite get this technology stuff. How do I work botbotme? If I click on "This Week" (or any of the choices) all I see is one page. How to go to previous page? |