| 00:00.11 | jfl | I'm burning the cd ... devuan_jessie_1.0.0-beta_amd64_CD.iso ... maybe that will work? |
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| 01:44.25 | ksx4system | should make a "lz4" package to force "liblz4-tool" installation... |
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| 03:20.33 | thewildweasel | This seems like a bit of a weird question, but what is the default root password for the raspberry pi image? |
| 03:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | !raspi-login |
| 03:24.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | !raspi login |
| 03:24.20 | infobot | well, raspi login is pw toor https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2016-05-03/?msg=65351755&page=3 |
| 03:25.35 | thewildweasel | Thanks |
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| 03:26.55 | MachinaeWolf | Does devuan have testing like debian does? |
| 03:27.05 | MachinaeWolf | testing repos* |
| 03:29.12 | golinux | Yes, ascii |
| 03:29.47 | golinux | MachinaeWolf: https://devuan.org/os/releases/#devuan-codenames |
| 03:32.34 | MachinaeWolf | nice |
| 03:32.45 | MachinaeWolf | iirc testing is new enough right? |
| 03:32.50 | MachinaeWolf | I've never gone beyond testing |
| 03:33.21 | golinux | New enough for what? |
| 03:33.34 | golinux | I always run stable till EOL. |
| 03:34.04 | MachinaeWolf | ah |
| 03:34.21 | golinux | is posting his from squeeze! |
| 03:34.30 | golinux | *his > this |
| 03:36.36 | MachinaeWolf | ah |
| 03:36.50 | golinux | choo? |
| 03:37.29 | MachinaeWolf | lol |
| 03:39.17 | golinux | Bedtime. G'nite |
| 03:39.36 | MachinaeWolf | night |
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| 03:42.59 | MachinaeWolf | What's on the non=netinstall? |
| 03:43.05 | MachinaeWolf | non-netinstall* |
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| 04:32.33 | MachinaeWolf | they didn't have a testing repo .iso right? |
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| 05:53.14 | ruenoak | evening all |
| 06:09.24 | geroy | good morning all :P |
| 06:15.02 | geroy | I have a question.. if i want to rebuild devuan package from source, where to get patches that removes systemd dependencies? |
| 06:15.33 | geroy | I am trying to rebuild dovecot with vpopmail support because by default it is compiled without it |
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| 07:06.19 | jfl | hello, I'm back |
| 07:07.11 | jfl | I had the problem booting from the distribution dvd ... writing to thumb drive and booting from that solved that problem |
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| 07:08.37 | jfl | My new problem is 'BAD Signature from Devuan Repository |
| 07:09.16 | jfl | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:09.51 | jfl | I can proceed no further. |
| 07:10.44 | jfl | I downloaded the torrent. |
| 07:10.59 | jfl | Any help appreciated. |
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| 07:51.05 | Irrwahn | Centurion_Dan: Ah, now that explains a lot, thanks for sorting it out! :) |
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| 08:00.21 | Irrwahn | geroy: Does dovecot actually has systemd dependencies? AFAICT it hasn't, and isn't among the packages currently patched or built explicitly for Devuan. So you should be fine grabbing the source package from Debian and go from there. |
| 08:00.39 | Irrwahn | s/has/have/ |
| 08:01.16 | geroy | Irrwahn, yes I am doind just that and there are some stuff in debian/control and rules file |
| 08:03.24 | geroy | Irrwahn, like dh-systemd dependencies |
| 08:03.48 | geroy | i've removed them by hand but just asking if there are already patches to do that |
| 08:04.58 | Irrwahn | geroy: I see. Not as far as I can tell, it's not in https://git.devuan.org/groups/devuan-packages, so no patches yet, I'm afraid. |
| 08:06.02 | geroy | np just asking :) |
| 08:06.28 | Irrwahn | yw, just trying to help ;) |
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| 08:45.58 | geroy | btw samba package is still a problem.. should i make bug report and where do i do that? :) |
| 08:48.12 | Irrwahn | geroy: The root of the problem seems to be with debian-security, another part of the problem is Amprolla related. Centurion_Dan is already on it, if I got his messages right. |
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| 08:49.51 | jaromil | geroy: as an issue on https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/samba |
| 08:50.14 | Irrwahn | FYI: [01:28:00] <Centurion_Dan> DusXMT: Irrwahn: they have 2 versions of samba-common and the samba-common package which is in an Architecture: All package is also in both Binary-all and Binary-amd64 Packages file. Amprolla is picking up the first version and ignoring the second version. |
| 08:50.16 | jaromil | but do it only in case your report has detailed information |
| 08:50.33 | jaromil | thanks Irrwahn |
| 08:50.41 | geroy | ok will wait then |
| 08:51.04 | Irrwahn | It was nothing. :) |
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| 08:52.32 | Irrwahn | geroy: I'm not sure, but pulling samba from testing might be an option? |
| 08:54.38 | geroy | probably.. or i just can remove jessie-security and install it... and wait for things to be fixed and then updatE? |
| 08:56.04 | Irrwahn | That should work, but disabling security repo altogether looks a bit like overkill to me. Maybe just put the samba packages on hold for the time being? |
| 08:56.58 | Irrwahn | Alas, you'd have to remember to "un-hold" them some time, or you'll be stuck with the old versions forever. ;) |
| 08:57.47 | Irrwahn | apt-pinning would be another option, but that's a bottomless rabbit hole. ^^ |
| 09:00.22 | Irrwahn | Situations like these are the reason why I like aptitude so much. It's easy to navigate the packages dependency tree and switch versions, or put some on hold. |
| 09:00.34 | Irrwahn | s/these/this one/ |
| 09:42.29 | Centurion_Dan | I've had a discussion with some debian people and the reason for it might be that some archs FTBFS the newer samba, so the old samba-common needs to stay around for that. However having the Arch=all packages in the Arch specific Packages is probably a error - harmless probably but still an error. |
| 09:42.50 | Centurion_Dan | We're working on fixing amprolla for this though. |
| 09:44.56 | KatolaZ | thanks Centurion_Dan |
| 09:45.18 | KatolaZ | this currently refrains me from addinf samba anc smbclient to the unofficial minimal images |
| 09:45.23 | KatolaZ | ~adding |
| 09:45.30 | KatolaZ | ~and |
| 09:45.53 | Centurion_Dan | does smbclient depend on samba-common?? |
| 09:46.22 | Centurion_Dan | That shouldn't be the case... wrt samba... well I wouldn't call that miniman ;-) |
| 09:46.44 | Centurion_Dan | s/miniman/minimal/ |
| 09:47.21 | Irrwahn | Centurion_Dan: smbclient does indeed depend on samba-common. |
| 09:48.38 | Centurion_Dan | rolls eyes |
| 09:48.43 | Centurion_Dan | that's stupid... |
| 09:49.03 | Centurion_Dan | I'd have thought smbclient would be stand alone... |
| 09:50.31 | virrus | Centurion_Dan, IMHO it needs smb.conf at least so it depends on -common |
| 09:50.51 | Irrwahn | There's no such problem that cannot be augmented by another level of dependency. :P |
| 09:53.27 | KatolaZ | Centurion_Dan: smbclient depends on samba common |
| 09:53.53 | KatolaZ | so I believe it will stay out |
| 09:53.54 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 09:54.13 | KatolaZ | (I mean, out of the minimal live images, atm) |
| 09:58.45 | Centurion_Dan | ok. |
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| 10:22.59 | antofox | hi guys |
| 10:23.13 | antofox | someone is working to cinnamon? |
| 10:23.52 | Centurion_Dan | antofox: not really at this stage... that requires lots of work on gnome packages... |
| 10:24.57 | antofox | now i'm sadfox :'( |
| 10:25.02 | antofox | ahah |
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| 12:04.58 | jfl | Hi, the guy with the installation problem again ... I got 'BAD Signature from Devuan RepositoryPrimary Devuan signing key 94532124541922FB' ... think I might try netinstall to overcome it? That'll be my next gambit. |
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| 12:08.08 | Centurion_Dan | jfl: do you know which repository? |
| 12:09.30 | jfl | 'Primary Devuan Repository' ? I think that's what it said, |
| 12:10.00 | KatolaZ | what does it say on tty4? |
| 12:11.13 | KatolaZ | jfl: ^^^^ |
| 12:15.17 | jfl | That's where I got the Primary Devuan Repository, it;s long gone now, I'm writing from the same machine with Debian Jessie on another disk |
| 12:15.52 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 12:15.59 | KatolaZ | but what was it doing before? |
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| 12:16.07 | KatolaZ | before the error, I mean |
| 12:16.34 | jfl | I had just finished the disk partition and ... installation was proceeding, I believe. |
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| 12:18.52 | flrn | hello jfl, |
| 12:19.04 | jfl | Hello flrn! |
| 12:19.07 | flrn | nice to hear it finally booted :) |
| 12:20.01 | jfl | Yeah, the problem was - I think - that the dvd/cdrom is plugged into an extra sata port on an add on card. |
| 12:20.42 | jfl | The original cdrom went south and, with two disks, there was no place to plug in the replacement, which was/is sata |
| 12:21.24 | flrn | just came back here, no backlog... but do you have access to the partition where you tried to install? there should be the installer log in /var/log/XXX |
| 12:21.30 | jfl | I guess the maufacturer couldn't anticipate that possibility in his bios |
| 12:23.22 | jfl | flrn : hmm ... got a /var/lib and a /var/cache ... no /var/log |
| 12:24.00 | flrn | hope it's not too impolite to jump in w/o knowing whats up... perhaps in /target/var... |
| 12:26.32 | FlibberTGibbet | Centurion_Dan: any joy with the quilting bee or whatever it was on that CUPS package? |
| 12:26.42 | jfl | flrn: /target/var would be /var, right ... but I have var on its own partition |
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| 12:30.47 | jfl_ | What the hell is all that jfl / jfl_ stuff about? Am I done ? |
| 12:31.44 | jfl | Is that a robot talkin? |
| 12:32.12 | FlibberTGibbet | it's the irc server |
| 12:32.45 | jfl | FTG, but the machine says I'm good to go? |
| 12:33.25 | FlibberTGibbet | you mean the "xyx_ is now known as xyz" stuff? |
| 12:33.42 | jfl | FTG, yeah |
| 12:34.49 | jfl | 'A Flibber T Gibbet, a Will of the WIsp ... a Cloud? |
| 12:34.53 | FlibberTGibbet | if you disconnect and reconnect quickly (doesn't have to be your fault) there's a bit of lag before you're allowed to use your regular nickname again, so it reverts to a backup. it's background noise for the most part |
| 12:35.31 | FlibberTGibbet | nope, FlibberTGibbet in its meaning of an empty-headed chatterbox. plenty here would agree :D |
| 12:35.45 | jfl | FTG, ah ha ... I was disconnected by forces unseen, and the reconnected, by same ? |
| 12:36.24 | jfl | FTG, It was a tune from Sound of Music, wasn't it? |
| 12:36.45 | FlibberTGibbet | why all the FTGs? |
| 12:37.29 | FlibberTGibbet | i'll take this off to #debianfork |
| 12:37.44 | jfl | because other comments might be interspersed and I'm too lazy to type Flibber T Gibbet |
| 12:38.20 | FlibberTGibbet | ok. however i'm guilty of keeping chat on a serious channel, so let's take this to #debianfork |
| 12:48.37 | Centurion_Dan | FlibberTGibbet: nope... |
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| 12:50.14 | FlibberTGibbet | Centurion_Dan: ah, sorry to hear that. creating deb files is over my head :/ |
| 12:51.11 | Centurion_Dan | I'll look into it later... it's not a big issue like many others... |
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| 13:12.01 | Inocuous | greetings all. |
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| 13:19.23 | FlibberTGibbet | Centurion_Dan: indeed. was just curious. |
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| 13:57.45 | fsmithred | fucking webmail! KatolaZ, I replied to you instead of the list, and then I think I sent an empty message to the list. For everyone else, the message was linux-image-586 - Linux for older PCs (meta-package) |
| 13:58.16 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: ? |
| 13:58.32 | fsmithred | hi |
| 13:58.36 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 13:58.39 | KatolaZ | I got the email now :) |
| 13:58.42 | fsmithred | non-pae kernel |
| 13:58.44 | KatolaZ | it's to the list :) |
| 13:58.48 | KatolaZ | yes, you are right |
| 13:58.50 | fsmithred | cool, thanks |
| 13:59.07 | fsmithred | also |
| 13:59.22 | fsmithred | I really like that people are now making custom images |
| 13:59.32 | fsmithred | that was one of the visions I had for Refracta |
| 13:59.40 | KatolaZ | good to know fsmithred |
| 13:59.42 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 13:59.49 | fsmithred | skeleton images for people to build on top of |
| 14:00.17 | KatolaZ | I found refractasnapshot very useful, indeed |
| 14:00.39 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 14:00.42 | fsmithred | I've tried to make it easy to customize. Several others have already done so |
| 14:01.04 | KatolaZ | well, to be honest, my dream is to have the minimal lives included in the sdk |
| 14:01.17 | fsmithred | yup |
| 14:01.24 | KatolaZ | because that would simplify the whole process substantially |
| 14:01.36 | fsmithred | I'll be reading up on sdk soon. |
| 14:02.48 | KatolaZ | I have already spoken with jaromil about that |
| 14:06.39 | fsmithred | Right now, it looks like I'm booting my i386 unofficial devuan in qemu with a command that didn't work before. |
| 14:07.17 | fsmithred | oh, maybe not - seems to have stopped at fb: switching to cirrus... |
| 14:33.15 | MachinaeWolf | Hmm on whatever login manager lxde has it won't let me login as non-root I get failed to execute or something |
| 14:36.35 | fsmithred | MachinaeWolf, can you drop to console and use startx? |
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| 14:37.14 | MachinaeWolf | haven't tried yet but tty1 always goes back to that login manager by default, I'm in tty2 right now |
| 14:37.17 | MachinaeWolf | let me see |
| 14:37.24 | fsmithred | use tty2 |
| 14:38.35 | MachinaeWolf | yeah, it says suspicious ownership not root or something to that effect |
| 14:38.52 | fsmithred | maybe say a little more about what system you're running |
| 14:38.57 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@unaffiliated/golinux) |
| 14:39.11 | MachinaeWolf | thus far it's been a regular netinstall |
| 14:39.19 | MachinaeWolf | I haven't changed it to testing yet |
| 14:39.31 | fsmithred | ok, so it should be slim |
| 14:39.52 | MachinaeWolf | well I only installed lxde so far, I planned on getting i3wm working but haven't done that yet |
| 14:40.10 | MachinaeWolf | I can check if it's slim though |
| 14:40.39 | MachinaeWolf | yeah slim is installed |
| 14:40.47 | MachinaeWolf | must've been pulled by lxde |
| 14:41.04 | MachinaeWolf | or that desktop package the installer installed |
| 14:41.14 | fsmithred | no, it's standard in devuan beta |
| 14:41.20 | MachinaeWolf | oh |
| 14:41.43 | fsmithred | check /etc/slim.conf for wrong user name - that's just a guess |
| 14:41.50 | fsmithred | and I have to go eat something |
| 14:42.30 | fsmithred | hi golinux, did you get my email? |
| 14:45.10 | golinux | fsmithred: Just now saw it |
| 14:45.18 | golinux | It works for me |
| 14:45.23 | fsmithred | cool. |
| 14:45.33 | fsmithred | I gotta go. See you all later. |
| 14:45.50 | golinux | Haven't yet read all the remaining 29 emails or the backscroll yet though |
| 14:46.39 | MachinaeWolf | oh you have to edit /etc/slim.conf to be able to login as regular user? |
| 14:53.21 | MachinaeWolf | hmm changed the /etc/slim.conf but it still doesn't work |
| 14:54.53 | MachinaeWolf | Also what's the regular ffmpeg package called? |
| 14:55.26 | KatolaZ | MachinaeWolf: ffmpeg |
| 14:56.09 | MachinaeWolf | hmm I don't see one that just says that though |
| 14:57.24 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 14:57.36 | KatolaZ | what do you get through: apt-cache search ffmpeg? |
| 14:58.00 | KatolaZ | oh wait, wait |
| 14:58.14 | KatolaZ | ffmpeg was purged from debian while jessie was testing |
| 14:58.23 | KatolaZ | you should add debianmultimedia to the repos |
| 14:58.26 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 14:58.45 | Irrwahn | Or pull ffmpeg from devuan testing (ascii). |
| 14:58.50 | Lydia_K | In my experience the debian ffmpeg never works right, I always end up building my own. |
| 14:58.54 | MachinaeWolf | ah |
| 14:59.24 | KatolaZ | Lydia_K: I have never had problems with the dmo package |
| 14:59.44 | MachinaeWolf | Still I should be able to startx as any user and same with slim |
| 14:59.53 | Irrwahn | has been using the dmo version quite succesfully for several years. |
| 15:00.51 | Lydia_K | shrugs "Whenever I need it it's missing some codec or segfaults, or something else crazy, and I just end up building my own." |
| 15:01.15 | Lydia_K | Granted, I tend to do more unusal stuff with it. |
| 15:01.23 | Irrwahn | MachinaeWolf: Alternatively: install consolekit and lightdm (assuming this works the same on jessie as it does on testing). |
| 15:01.51 | KatolaZ | Lydia_K: :) |
| 15:01.58 | MachinaeWolf | well I'll probably be stripping slim off anyway, I prefer using startx |
| 15:02.13 | MachinaeWolf | but you need to be able to startx as non-root |
| 15:02.18 | Irrwahn | Lydia_K: A case of everyone's mileage varying, I guess. :) |
| 15:02.19 | KatolaZ | MachinaeWolf: have you tried startx from the console? |
| 15:02.27 | MachinaeWolf | yeah it won't let me |
| 15:02.31 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 15:02.33 | KatolaZ | why? |
| 15:02.50 | KatolaZ | startx -- :1? |
| 15:02.55 | MachinaeWolf | hold on let me open it in another tty so I can list the error |
| 15:03.07 | Irrwahn | Probably the stupid "security" feature of making X only executable for root. |
| 15:03.14 | Lydia_K | Irrwahn: I'm sure :) |
| 15:04.42 | DusXMT | Irrwahn: Isn't that configurable by dpkg-reconfigure x11-common or something like that? |
| 15:04.45 | MachinaeWolf | X: /tmp/.X11-unix/ has suspicious ownership (not root:root), aborting |
| 15:04.46 | MachinaeWolf | ^ |
| 15:05.03 | MachinaeWolf | it has a few other lines if you want me to type those too? |
| 15:05.25 | Irrwahn | DusXMT: Beats me. :o |
| 15:05.28 | DusXMT | would try rm -rf /tmp/.X11-unix and then startx |
| 15:06.11 | MachinaeWolf | heh no good |
| 15:06.20 | MachinaeWolf | it makes the directory again |
| 15:06.32 | KatolaZ | MachinaeWolf: I don't have any similar problem on my devuan jessie |
| 15:06.36 | KatolaZ | I can startx form any user |
| 15:06.36 | DusXMT | Irrwahn: And it needs to be startable by root (or to be able to switch itself to root - via setuid, the same feature that powers sudo and su), so that it can access the graphics hardware |
| 15:06.40 | Irrwahn | sudo dpkg-reconfigure x11-common yields: [ ok ] Setting up X socket directories... /tmp/.X11-unix /tmp/.ICE-unix. |
| 15:06.44 | KatolaZ | DusXMT: ?? |
| 15:07.23 | Irrwahn | DusXMT: It was setuid in ye olden days. |
| 15:07.42 | KatolaZ | mine is not setuid |
| 15:08.02 | DusXMT | interesting... things have probably changed with time |
| 15:08.09 | Irrwahn | I remember times I had to set the sid bit manually after every update, until I finally switched to using lightdm. |
| 15:08.26 | KatolaZ | wait, I tried from a user in group 0 |
| 15:08.30 | KatolaZ | let me try with another user |
| 15:08.42 | DusXMT | (and the x11-common reconfiguring is probably just on the Hurd; I know you need to do it there to allow any user to start X, as it doesn't recognize the console) |
| 15:08.54 | MachinaeWolf | well that worked Irrwahn but I got some error and it went back to the screen... |
| 15:08.57 | KatolaZ | same |
| 15:09.01 | Irrwahn | DusXMT: Ah, that'd make sense. |
| 15:09.07 | KatolaZ | it works for unprivileged users |
| 15:09.27 | Irrwahn | Hm. |
| 15:09.32 | *** join/#devuan thewildweasel (~andrew@50.243.71.51) |
| 15:09.45 | DusXMT | How does it access the PCI bus then? (and other busses as well) |
| 15:09.50 | KatolaZ | ls -l /usr/bin/Xorg says it is root.root with 755 |
| 15:10.08 | DusXMT | ls -l `which X` |
| 15:10.09 | KatolaZ | I can startx from any user |
| 15:10.11 | DusXMT | -rwsr-sr-x 1 root root 9468 Apr 1 2014 /usr/bin/X |
| 15:10.14 | DusXMT | on Devuan |
| 15:10.17 | KatolaZ | no idea |
| 15:10.22 | KatolaZ | I am on jessie |
| 15:10.28 | KatolaZ | Devuan |
| 15:10.40 | DusXMT | so I have the setuid on Devuan Jessie |
| 15:10.54 | DusXMT | :) |
| 15:10.54 | KatolaZ | ah wait |
| 15:10.58 | Irrwahn | On Devuan ascii (testing): lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Okt 28 2015 /usr/bin/X -> Xorg |
| 15:10.59 | KatolaZ | you are right |
| 15:11.03 | KatolaZ | X is setuid |
| 15:11.06 | KatolaZ | Xorg is not |
| 15:11.15 | KatolaZ | mmmhhh |
| 15:11.19 | DusXMT | What's the difference? |
| 15:11.34 | MachinaeWolf | idk but I'd like to move to testing |
| 15:11.56 | DusXMT | the Xorg file is definitely larger, so it probably contains the actual X server |
| 15:11.56 | Irrwahn | And since the default nowadays is to use a display manager which runs as root, X[org] doesn't need to be setuid. |
| 15:12.21 | KatolaZ | Irrwahn: the display manager is started after X... |
| 15:12.34 | KatolaZ | and if I startx I don't have any display manager |
| 15:12.38 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-5d6a6e-209.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:12.39 | Irrwahn | No, the DM *starts* X |
| 15:12.54 | KatolaZ | wait |
| 15:12.59 | KatolaZ | I can |
| 15:13.00 | Akuli | Whats the problem? |
| 15:13.01 | KatolaZ | xinit -- :1 |
| 15:13.05 | KatolaZ | from any user |
| 15:13.07 | Irrwahn | E.g. lightdm starts X and presents the greeter to let you log in. |
| 15:13.09 | KatolaZ | without any DM |
| 15:13.20 | KatolaZ | and it works |
| 15:13.22 | Akuli | Yes, you can |
| 15:13.25 | KatolaZ | without any DM |
| 15:13.33 | Akuli | Now you're starting X with xinit instead of a DM |
| 15:13.38 | MachinaeWolf | bbl I need to do some stuff |
| 15:13.42 | Irrwahn | BTW: ls -l `which Xorg` shows: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 274 Okt 28 2015 /usr/bin/Xorg |
| 15:13.52 | KatolaZ | yes Irrwahn |
| 15:13.54 | Irrwahn | Look Ma, no sid! :D |
| 15:13.57 | KatolaZ | eheheh |
| 15:13.59 | KatolaZ | I told you |
| 15:14.00 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 15:14.33 | DusXMT | It's strange that I have suid on my system... I didn't put it there manually |
| 15:14.46 | Irrwahn | That's strange indeed. |
| 15:15.03 | DusXMT | But on /usr/bin/X |
| 15:15.17 | Irrwahn | Because it's been non-sid since wheezy(?), I believe. |
| 15:15.26 | DusXMT | And jessie is newer than wheezy |
| 15:15.56 | Irrwahn | Might even been since squeeze. |
| 15:16.06 | DusXMT | And PS reports that X (the one that has setuid) is running: root 1611 5.2 8.9 164480 45484 tty7 Ss+ 14:19 9:13 /usr/bin/X :0 vt7 -nolisten tcp -retro -auth /var/lib/xdm/authdir/authfiles/A:0-oIV3tJ |
| 15:16.45 | DusXMT | and not /usr/bin/Xorg |
| 15:17.31 | Irrwahn | On my system /usr/bin/X is a symlink to /usr/bin/Xorg. |
| 15:17.52 | DusXMT | On mine, it's a different executable with a different size (smaller) |
| 15:18.03 | DusXMT | 9468 compared to 2564976 |
| 15:18.04 | Irrwahn | I've never seen otherwise on a debianish system for years. |
| 15:18.19 | Irrwahn | Looks like script, can you list it? |
| 15:18.23 | KatolaZ | DusXMT: on /usr/bin/X is OK |
| 15:18.48 | DusXMT | /usr/bin/X: setuid, setgid ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=d1c3da1f580cf31a3ddd8ba97ca2f98dc91675fb, stripped |
| 15:18.49 | KatolaZ | Irrwahn: /usr/bin/Xorg is not setuid |
| 15:19.00 | KatolaZ | while /usr/bin/X is |
| 15:19.10 | Irrwahn | KatolaZ: That's what I wrote above several times. :) |
| 15:19.16 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 15:19.17 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 15:19.19 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 15:19.21 | Irrwahn | :D |
| 15:19.22 | KatolaZ | got confused |
| 15:19.32 | Irrwahn | NP :) |
| 15:19.37 | KatolaZ | ;0 |
| 15:19.39 | DusXMT | So it's not a script |
| 15:19.40 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 15:20.03 | Irrwahn | DusXMT: This is a setup I've never encountered before. |
| 15:20.14 | DusXMT | It's just plain 'ol Devuan Jessie |
| 15:20.31 | Irrwahn | DusXMT: Did you cross-upgrade from another distro? |
| 15:20.44 | DusXMT | Nope, freshly installed perhaps a month ago? |
| 15:21.09 | DusXMT | Perhaps it's different on amd64 than on i386? (this is an older machine) |
| 15:21.14 | Irrwahn | Man, too bad I haven't a jessie running anywhere near me. :/ |
| 15:21.35 | Irrwahn | Could be, however unlikely it is. |
| 15:22.18 | Irrwahn | 's grammar south goes. o.O |
| 15:23.34 | DusXMT | Irrwahn: You can check it out in a virtual machine, I guess; KVM is pretty neat |
| 15:23.47 | DusXMT | (it runs the guest at an almost native speed) |
| 15:24.17 | Irrwahn | Ah wait, I still got the live image around from earlier today, don't I? |
| 15:24.58 | Irrwahn | Can I use it to install on a VM disk and isntall X? If so, how would I have to proceed? |
| 15:25.25 | Irrwahn | KatolaZ: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 15:30.48 | Irrwahn | Nevermind, I compared the xserver packages from stable and testing, and they look surprisingly different. |
| 15:31.30 | Irrwahn | So anything I wrote probably only applies to testing, sorry for the confusion. |
| 15:31.35 | DusXMT | So yeah, it's probably stretch, not squeeze,where the change was made =3 |
| 15:31.51 | Irrwahn | :-° :D |
| 15:32.12 | DusXMT | Though it's still interesting that it can start without setuid - how does it access the different data busses? |
| 15:32.35 | DusXMT | How does it access the graphics card? |
| 15:32.39 | KatolaZ | Irrwahn: |
| 15:32.41 | KatolaZ | sure |
| 15:32.43 | Irrwahn | I can only run starty as root, or via a DM. |
| 15:32.45 | KatolaZ | it's a minimal image |
| 15:32.48 | Irrwahn | *startx |
| 15:33.02 | KatolaZ | you can apt-get install whatever you want |
| 15:33.36 | KatolaZ | Irrwahn: but those minimal images are for jessie, BTW, not ascii |
| 15:33.40 | Irrwahn | <-- trying now |
| 15:34.02 | Irrwahn | That's fine, I wanted to check for jessie explixitly, since the machine I'm on is ascii. :) |
| 15:34.18 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 15:34.36 | Akuli | Is there some way to get sleeping to work in devuan? |
| 15:34.48 | Akuli | I mean, putting the computer to sleep, as in a state between powered on and off |
| 15:38.07 | KatolaZ | Akuli: do you mean suspend to ram? |
| 15:38.19 | Akuli | Yes, suspend to ram. |
| 15:42.23 | KatolaZ | it works out of the box on my laptop |
| 15:42.39 | Akuli | Not on anything i've tried it on |
| 15:42.48 | KatolaZ | with pm-suspend |
| 15:42.55 | Akuli | whats that? |
| 15:43.08 | KatolaZ | the way to go into suspend mode :) |
| 15:43.15 | Irrwahn | KatolaZ: DusXMT: Got it sorted: On a virgin jessie, /usr/bin/X is setuid, while Xorg and startx are not. |
| 15:43.27 | Akuli | can it be ran without root access, or somehow from a DM/DE session? |
| 15:43.33 | Akuli | like powering off can |
| 15:44.02 | KatolaZ | I suspect so |
| 15:44.12 | KatolaZ | I have it linked to an acpi event |
| 15:44.27 | Akuli | In that case i need to hack together some sort of daemon thingy that'll wait for the user to do that :D |
| 15:44.36 | Akuli | any better suggestions? :) |
| 15:44.41 | KatolaZ | you don't need a daemon |
| 15:44.44 | KatolaZ | wait |
| 15:45.20 | KatolaZ | it seems that pm-suspend is run by root |
| 15:45.28 | KatolaZ | ~can be run only by root |
| 15:45.39 | Akuli | like poweroff and reboot |
| 15:45.57 | KatolaZ | (we will remember the 13th of May as the Devuan-setuid-day :D) |
| 15:45.58 | Akuli | which is what i'd expect for a low-level utility, but i'd really like to know how desktop environments do it |
| 15:46.08 | KatolaZ | no idea |
| 15:46.15 | KatolaZ | I have it bound to an acpi event |
| 15:46.22 | Irrwahn | Akuli: On XFCE you can use xfce-power-manager (depends on upower). |
| 15:46.22 | KatolaZ | I use WMaker |
| 15:46.32 | Akuli | Irrwahn, and it suspends to ram? |
| 15:46.43 | KatolaZ | I just press FN+F4 and it goes to suspend |
| 15:46.44 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 15:46.46 | Akuli | I need to install xfce on my devuan system and see how that goes |
| 15:46.53 | Irrwahn | At least the option is available, and it worked last time I tried. |
| 15:46.58 | Akuli | KatolaZ, that's exactly what i want |
| 15:47.09 | KatolaZ | great |
| 15:47.10 | Akuli | actually, what my customer-ish wants :) |
| 15:47.15 | KatolaZ | then link it to an acpi event |
| 15:47.19 | KatolaZ | wait |
| 15:47.47 | Akuli | I was able to suspend to disk directly from lightdm |
| 15:48.25 | KatolaZ | don't know how this is managed in lightdm |
| 15:49.44 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 15:50.02 | KatolaZ | it is managed by /etc/acpi/events/suspendbtn |
| 15:50.38 | KatolaZ | which calls /etc/acpi/sleep_suspend.sh sleep |
| 15:50.48 | KatolaZ | which in turns calls pm-suspend |
| 15:50.53 | Akuli | Is the system relying on sh to suspend? :D |
| 15:50.59 | Akuli | Interesting |
| 15:51.31 | KatolaZ | why are you surprised? |
| 15:52.02 | KatolaZ | this is managed directly by acpi-support |
| 15:52.25 | KatolaZ | and I believe that most of the desktop utilities simply work around the acpi scripts |
| 15:52.49 | Akuli | I don't know |
| 15:53.09 | Akuli | But looks nice, I'll look into that :) |
| 15:53.28 | KatolaZ | just start by calling pm-suspend from a shell, and see if it works |
| 15:53.41 | KatolaZ | if it does, you can link it to an acpi event |
| 15:58.03 | KatolaZ | all the registered events are in /etc/acpi/events in Debian/Devuan |
| 16:05.55 | MachinaeWolf | Do they have a guide detailing swapping to testing? |
| 16:06.27 | *** join/#devuan Inocuous (~Inocuous@144-141-135-64.dsl.sacoriver.net) |
| 16:07.05 | Akuli | make a swap partition/file and run swapon? |
| 16:09.29 | golinux | MachinaeWolf: I think it's just a matter of changing sources but let me check |
| 16:09.47 | KatolaZ | yes, it is |
| 16:10.00 | KatolaZ | and then the usual apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 16:10.10 | KatolaZ | AFAIK |
| 16:10.33 | golinux | You can also look at this: https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/home |
| 16:11.43 | MachinaeWolf | ah ok thanks |
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| 16:15.50 | MachinaeWolf | to start gpm you don't do /etc/init.d/gpm start ? |
| 16:15.58 | MachinaeWolf | it's not there |
| 16:22.33 | KatolaZ | MachinaeWolf: do you have gpm installed? |
| 16:22.35 | Irrwahn | MachinaeWolf: apt-get install gpm ? |
| 16:22.49 | Irrwahn | (whatever gpm is .... :p) |
| 16:22.55 | *** join/#devuan jathan (~jathan@132.248.174.116) |
| 16:23.45 | KatolaZ | Irrwahn: gpm is a daemon which provides mouse support on text consoles |
| 16:24.20 | enyc | recalls the days of using gpm with serial mouse, then emulating a different mouse protocol on a device node that the x server was using |
| 16:24.28 | Irrwahn | KatolaZ: Ah, thank's. Never had a use for sth like that. ;D |
| 16:24.39 | enyc | *even* if x server was directly taking over the I/O ports of the keyboard+ps2-mouse controller =)) |
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| 16:28.26 | enyc | on text consoles, screen seems fine to do cut-and-paste type functions anyway... |
| 16:29.13 | MachinaeWolf | yes I do Irrwahn |
| 16:29.33 | Irrwahn | MachinaeWolf: ?? |
| 16:29.43 | KatolaZ | enyc: gpm was around before screen was conceived :) |
| 16:29.43 | MachinaeWolf | it's installed but it's not in /etc/init.d/ |
| 16:30.13 | enyc | KatolaZ: i discovered in the manual of an ancient SCO system, something which was REMARKABLY like screen with virtuall al the same ctrl-a keys etc |
| 16:30.18 | enyc | KatolaZ: can't remmeber what it was called |
| 16:30.22 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 16:30.24 | KatolaZ | nice |
| 16:30.37 | MachinaeWolf | Is there a command that lists all the installed package contents? |
| 16:30.38 | KatolaZ | well, SCO shouldn't be so "ancient" anyway |
| 16:30.50 | enyc | KatolaZ: iirc it may have been semething expecting to multiplex 80x24 displays ontop of 80x25 consolels can't remmeber though |
| 16:31.03 | KatolaZ | and I am wrong anyway |
| 16:31.09 | enyc | MachinaeWolf: you could link dpkg -l and dpkg -L with cut and xargs somehow |
| 16:31.19 | MachinaeWolf | I know there's dpkg --get-selections but that just lists what you have installed not the installed contents, unless it does for dpkg --get-selections packagename? |
| 16:31.20 | KatolaZ | since the first version of screen dates back to 1987 |
| 16:31.28 | KatolaZ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Screen |
| 16:31.49 | MachinaeWolf | nope my assumption was wrong :/ |
| 16:32.24 | MachinaeWolf | yeah but dpkg -L only works with .debs |
| 16:32.31 | KatolaZ | MachinaeWolf:the correct way is dpkg -l |
| 16:32.38 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 16:32.49 | KatolaZ | dpkg -L works with all the stuff you have installed |
| 16:33.09 | MachinaeWolf | well it is installed but I wasn't explicitly telling it where the .deb was |
| 16:33.47 | MachinaeWolf | I forget where the install location is, I haven't used a debian-ish system in a while |
| 16:33.59 | Akuli | I think you need the deb to find out what it installed |
| 16:34.06 | MachinaeWolf | I remember the basic apt commands and dpkg though |
| 16:34.08 | Akuli | but most debs install things somewhere under /usr |
| 16:34.53 | enyc | MachinaeWolf: hrrm i may have an answer =) |
| 16:34.54 | enyc | COLUMNS=256 dpkg -l | grep ^ii | cut -d\ -f3 | xargs -n1 dpkg -L | sort -u |
| 16:35.34 | enyc | Akuli: no, you can just use dpkg -L to list contents of installed packages |
| 16:35.39 | MachinaeWolf | But doesn't it save the .debs after it's installed? |
| 16:35.41 | KatolaZ | MachinaeWolf: you don't need to tell anything to dpkg.... |
| 16:35.54 | KatolaZ | and it does not need the debs anyway |
| 16:35.58 | enyc | MachinaeWolf: no, but it keeps database iin /var/lib/dpkg/ or so |
| 16:36.11 | KatolaZ | enyc: thanks, I was saying the same |
| 16:36.23 | MachinaeWolf | ah |
| 16:36.36 | MachinaeWolf | So do what KatolaZ? |
| 16:36.42 | KatolaZ | dpkg -L gpm |
| 16:36.52 | enyc | MachinaeWolf: my command above will basically tell you all installed files from all installed+configured packages, but this MAY not include all config-files etc, not sure |
| 16:37.04 | MachinaeWolf | ah |
| 16:37.42 | MachinaeWolf | ohh it didn't finish installing, had a timeout or something earlier the network was being slow for a little bit |
| 16:37.43 | KatolaZ | enyc: it should include whatever is in the deb, except maybe files generated during post-inst (e.g., symlinks) |
| 16:37.48 | MachinaeWolf | now this makes more sense |
| 16:37.52 | MachinaeWolf | I was wondering what was up |
| 16:38.09 | MachinaeWolf | yep now the dpkg -L works |
| 16:38.20 | KatolaZ | great MachinaeWolf |
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| 16:44.52 | MachinaeWolf | So if I have xorg-video-intel I have the intel video stuff all good or do I need some other packages? |
| 16:45.21 | MachinaeWolf | 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09) |
| 16:46.06 | enyc | MachinaeWolf: i've never needed antyhnig special in that regard... but maybe devuan can do more minimal installs .... |
| 16:46.35 | MachinaeWolf | well I intend to install steam at some point so I want to make sure I have all the video stuff I need |
| 16:47.03 | KatolaZ | enyc: working on that :D |
| 16:47.51 | Akuli | My ram usage when idling is 4 times smaller on devuan jessie than ubuntu 14.04 |
| 16:47.52 | KatolaZ | the problem is that enythin related to X brings in lots of stuff |
| 16:48.09 | KatolaZ | ~anything |
| 16:48.35 | enyc | KatolaZ: we can then work on building devuan for 486-compatibles with a while different set of build's?? ;-) |
| 16:49.36 | MachinaeWolf | :o no glxinfo |
| 16:49.49 | KatolaZ | the problem is that we have to recompile everything for 486... |
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| 16:50.24 | KatolaZ | it would make sense for minimal systems, though |
| 16:51.02 | enyc | KatolaZ: nods, what sort of buildd / machine cabalitiy/availability would be needed ?? |
| 16:51.38 | KatolaZ | well, in theory we can crosscompile to i486 directly from i686 or amd64 |
| 16:51.52 | enyc | KatolaZ: how long would it take, if using a fast amd64 etc to do it with lots of parallel?? how huge is the archive build load? |
| 16:52.03 | KatolaZ | the burden is making the process automatic |
| 16:52.22 | KatolaZ | since i486 is not a standard build in croostool |
| 16:52.26 | KatolaZ | ~crosstool |
| 16:52.35 | enyc | KatolaZ: i see |
| 16:52.46 | KatolaZ | BTW, who would care about an i486 build in 2016? :D |
| 16:52.50 | enyc | KatolaZ: i wonder what it would take to commit it as extra to crosstool ? ;-) |
| 16:53.13 | enyc | KatolaZ: because we can, and/or at least, i686 without SSE2, as some others in this channel expressed they wanted to keep compat with |
| 16:53.19 | KatolaZ | enyc: I would rather prefer to focus energy on an arm64 build for rpi3 |
| 16:53.27 | enyc | KatolaZ: nods fine =) |
| 16:53.34 | KatolaZ | but I get your point |
| 16:53.37 | enyc | KatolaZ: ooooooooh i didont know rpi3 can run in 64bit mode |
| 16:53.48 | KatolaZ | rpi3 is a 64 bit processor |
| 16:53.50 | KatolaZ | armv8 |
| 16:53.51 | enyc | KatolaZ: I would have (thought) it can't be too hard to have extra target or so in crossbuild |
| 16:54.13 | KatolaZ | the problem with rpi3 is that the image is not "standard" due to the boot hell |
| 16:54.27 | KatolaZ | parazyd got around it and provided images for rpi2 |
| 16:54.39 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: Is it different from the other pi-s? |
| 16:54.45 | KatolaZ | yes, DusXMT |
| 16:54.46 | KatolaZ | it is |
| 16:55.08 | enyc | oh what a pain |
| 16:55.14 | KatolaZ | but with raspbian everything is basically running as if it was an armv6 + FPU2 |
| 16:55.30 | KatolaZ | to keep compatibility with rpi1/rpi0 |
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| 16:58.46 | KatolaZ | enyc: anyway, it might be not too hard to add additional archs in crossbuild |
| 16:58.50 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: I was asking about the boot process, just to be sure |
| 16:59.00 | KatolaZ | Only, I haven't tried it so far |
| 16:59.35 | KatolaZ | DusXMT: the boot process seems to be slightly different, but the last bootloader provided by rpi foundation can boot anything |
| 16:59.46 | KatolaZ | from rpi1 to rpi3 |
| 16:59.49 | KatolaZ | apparently |
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| 17:07.29 | MachinaeWolf | so in the /etc/apt/sources.list I just change jessie to testing? |
| 17:08.06 | parazyd | MachinaeWolf: to ascii |
| 17:08.34 | MachinaeWolf | changing it to say testing is a bad idea? |
| 17:08.46 | parazyd | no, ours is called 'ascii' |
| 17:08.58 | MachinaeWolf | well I'm just thinking long term |
| 17:09.00 | parazyd | equivalent of sid |
| 17:09.57 | MachinaeWolf | I thought sid was their experimental though? |
| 17:09.57 | MachinaeWolf | not testing |
| 17:11.07 | DusXMT | thought ceres == sid |
| 17:11.22 | parazyd | oh sry |
| 17:11.23 | DusXMT | and ascii == stretch |
| 17:11.26 | parazyd | you are right |
| 17:11.42 | parazyd | yes, ceres is currently uninstallable |
| 17:11.45 | parazyd | has some issues |
| 17:12.07 | MachinaeWolf | well I never ran experimental, just testing, that was good enough |
| 17:12.08 | parazyd | this is why ascii came to my mind immediately |
| 17:12.31 | parazyd | it's: stable < testing < unstable |
| 17:12.43 | parazyd | jessie < ascii < ceres |
| 17:12.44 | MachinaeWolf | So future releases will be named after planets or celestial bodies? |
| 17:12.47 | KatolaZ | but testing should works in sources.list as well, right? |
| 17:12.56 | KatolaZ | ~work |
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| 17:13.23 | parazyd | KatolaZ: iirc, it's always the upcoming release name |
| 17:13.30 | KatolaZ | mmmhhhh |
| 17:13.41 | KatolaZ | I don't remember |
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| 17:14.01 | MachinaeWolf | ok so just replace all instances of jessie with ascii ? |
| 17:14.03 | KatolaZ | I have jessie though |
| 17:14.06 | parazyd | yup |
| 17:14.06 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 17:14.10 | MachinaeWolf | then apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade? |
| 17:14.18 | KatolaZ | yes MachinaeWolf |
| 17:14.23 | MachinaeWolf | ok cool |
| 17:14.34 | KatolaZ | and then light a candle to your preferred god, and hope for the best :D |
| 17:14.48 | KatolaZ | (kidding :P) |
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| 17:14.58 | parazyd | re: rpi3; i think arm64 packages aren't build (maybe someone knows better?) |
| 17:15.09 | TyrfingMjolnir | Is there an RPI2 optimized image? |
| 17:15.13 | parazyd | the rpi2 image works on both rpi2 and rpi3 |
| 17:15.20 | MachinaeWolf | hahaha KatolaZ nice |
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| 17:15.25 | KatolaZ | parazyd: not sure about arm64 |
| 17:15.26 | parazyd | TyrfingMjolnir: both are built armhf(armv7) |
| 17:15.37 | parazyd | so for rpi2 it's as good as it gets |
| 17:15.45 | KatolaZ | TyrfingMjolnir: the rpi2 image is aleady armhf |
| 17:15.48 | KatolaZ | oh sorry |
| 17:15.53 | KatolaZ | parazyd answered |
| 17:15.56 | TyrfingMjolnir | Thanks |
| 17:16.04 | MachinaeWolf | then you put on some, hmm what's that metal band that starts with a K? Oh yeah Kamelot |
| 17:16.06 | DusXMT | parazyd: wait, isn't the rpi1 armv6+hf |
| 17:16.22 | KatolaZ | MachinaeWolf: you should put some BURZUM instead ;) |
| 17:16.28 | TyrfingMjolnir | Did anyone make a Joyent SmartOS LX image of devuan yet? |
| 17:16.29 | parazyd | DusXMT: dunno about hardfloat |
| 17:16.31 | MachinaeWolf | never heard of them KatolaZ |
| 17:16.33 | parazyd | but it is armv6 |
| 17:16.44 | MachinaeWolf | I don't like all Kamelot but I like most |
| 17:16.46 | DusXMT | (it has a hardware floating point unit) |
| 17:16.51 | KatolaZ | parazyd: rpi1 has vfpu2 |
| 17:16.59 | KatolaZ | which is optional on armv6 |
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| 17:17.15 | MachinaeWolf | Is there an offtopic of this channel or no? |
| 17:17.16 | parazyd | all right, but still devuan's armhf pkgs won't work |
| 17:17.20 | parazyd | because armv7 |
| 17:17.25 | DusXMT | MachinaeWolf: #debianfork |
| 17:17.29 | KatolaZ | confirmed parazyd |
| 17:17.30 | parazyd | MachinaeWolf: #debianfork perhaps |
| 17:17.32 | MachinaeWolf | lol |
| 17:17.33 | parazyd | ^_^ |
| 17:17.39 | KatolaZ | armhf packages don't work in rpi0/rpi1 |
| 17:17.54 | parazyd | right |
| 17:17.56 | KatolaZ | I tried it and got everything screwed up |
| 17:18.06 | parazyd | yeah you get segfaults |
| 17:18.14 | KatolaZ | yes, you do |
| 17:18.20 | KatolaZ | (I did, plenty of them :D) |
| 17:18.21 | DusXMT | just uses NetBSD on his - a nice way to get a systemd-free system on the raspi |
| 17:18.27 | MachinaeWolf | nice DusXMT |
| 17:18.41 | MachinaeWolf | I was going to use FreeBSD but it doesn't support my wifi card so here I am |
| 17:18.42 | parazyd | i've yet to try out the armel packages |
| 17:18.47 | MachinaeWolf | and gentoo was giving me one minor issue |
| 17:18.48 | parazyd | hope to do that once i get some time |
| 17:18.53 | MachinaeWolf | otherwise gentoo was great :) |
| 17:19.03 | parazyd | ffs i updated gcc today |
| 17:19.09 | parazyd | takes forever |
| 17:19.41 | KatolaZ | parazyd: the only way is to crosscompile, AFAIK |
| 17:19.48 | MachinaeWolf | try compiling webkit or libreoffice :) |
| 17:20.02 | parazyd | libreoffice-bin :) |
| 17:20.07 | parazyd | webkit i never will use |
| 17:20.08 | MachinaeWolf | yeah much less time |
| 17:20.11 | parazyd | hahaha |
| 17:20.17 | parazyd | KatolaZ: crosscompile what? |
| 17:20.22 | MachinaeWolf | also if possible enable a ramdisk to compile, it's nice ^_^ |
| 17:20.23 | KatolaZ | everything |
| 17:20.25 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 17:20.39 | KatolaZ | you were talking of compiling gcc on the pi, right? |
| 17:20.40 | parazyd | KatolaZ: armel packages already exist |
| 17:20.44 | KatolaZ | I know |
| 17:20.46 | parazyd | just not sure how well they work |
| 17:20.55 | parazyd | KatolaZ: no, no, on my gentoo laptop |
| 17:20.58 | parazyd | :P |
| 17:20.59 | KatolaZ | ahahahah |
| 17:21.01 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 17:21.02 | KatolaZ | got it |
| 17:21.11 | MachinaeWolf | dang that sounds like hell to compile everything on the pi |
| 17:21.26 | DusXMT | MachinaeWolf: Yeah, it supports quite a bit fewer ones than Linux, this one's supposed to work (I've ordered it, hasn't come yet so can't confirm it): http://www.ebay.com/itm/282013661470?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT |
| 17:21.28 | MachinaeWolf | oh ok parazyd |
| 17:21.37 | parazyd | i just have a good server that acts like a binhost for these arm boards |
| 17:21.41 | parazyd | compile everything i want there |
| 17:21.54 | MachinaeWolf | ah |
| 17:21.54 | parazyd | but i usually don't update them unless there are security fixes |
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| 17:26.13 | DusXMT | MachinaeWolf: It's not that bad even to compile stuff on it directly; just let it run in a screen/tmux session, come a couple days later, and viola |
| 17:26.28 | MachinaeWolf | lol yeah but days |
| 17:26.50 | MachinaeWolf | new lowtech #compilefordays |
| 17:26.53 | MachinaeWolf | ;P |
| 17:27.05 | DusXMT | Well, it's not like the raspi wastes all that much power, so I don't see the problem |
| 17:27.16 | DusXMT | other than people being impatient =3 |
| 17:27.41 | KatolaZ | or you just crosscompile on a laptop :P |
| 17:27.51 | DusXMT | or that, that's probably a wiser choice |
| 17:27.58 | DusXMT | just likes native compiling |
| 17:28.05 | KatolaZ | DusXMT: why? |
| 17:28.08 | KatolaZ | is the same gcc |
| 17:28.11 | KatolaZ | with the same backend |
| 17:28.12 | KatolaZ | ... |
| 17:28.19 | KatolaZ | only run on a faster machine |
| 17:28.24 | KatolaZ | no need to wait for days |
| 17:28.33 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: It shows that the OS port can bootstrap itself =3 |
| 17:28.45 | DusXMT | It's self-hosting |
| 17:29.32 | DusXMT | Infact, the Debian ports project even insists on using real hardware for native compiling of ported packages, from what I remember |
| 17:30.16 | MachinaeWolf | lol I edited the sources ran apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade and no updates on packages? |
| 17:30.21 | KatolaZ | yes DusXMT, but we already know that the rpi can build gcc, so there is no point in proving it again, and again, and again |
| 17:30.55 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: And then there's lazy people like me who simply don't have the will to maintain a cross-compiler on a different machine =3 |
| 17:31.10 | MachinaeWolf | Should I enable any other repos? Someone mentioned a multimedia one? |
| 17:32.43 | MachinaeWolf | I feel like the dist-upgrade should've done something... |
| 17:32.47 | MachinaeWolf | <_< |
| 17:32.50 | MachinaeWolf | >_> |
| 17:37.07 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: Do you have to build the packages in advance, or does it work on-request? |
| 17:37.44 | KatolaZ | DusXMT: ??? |
| 17:38.15 | MachinaeWolf | Do you guys have a forum? |
| 17:38.48 | DusXMT | KatolaZ: Let's say you want to update something. Let's say LLVM. Would you have to first compile it on the laptop, or would portage on the raspberry pi send the laptop a request to build it? |
| 17:39.34 | DusXMT | (in essence: do you have to do all package management twice?) |
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| 17:43.19 | DusXMT | (okay, I guess it's off-topic, I admit it) |
| 17:45.04 | KatolaZ | I don't use netbsd on the rpi |
| 17:45.45 | KatolaZ | so I don't have an answer to your question DusXMT |
| 17:46.01 | DusXMT | Oh, so I guess my question was for parazyd, sorry. (and I meant gentoo) |
| 17:46.51 | DusXMT | (even though it would be useless info for me now, I'm still kinda curious) |
| 17:46.51 | KatolaZ | sorry DusXMT :) |
| 17:47.02 | KatolaZ | oh right you mentioned portage :) |
| 17:48.14 | parazyd | DusXMT: precompile |
| 17:48.22 | parazyd | DusXMT: but i am working towards on-request compilation |
| 17:48.29 | parazyd | it's a very useful feat |
| 17:50.59 | parazyd | i will have to wrap portage somehow though |
| 17:51.53 | MachinaeWolf | Is there a way to verify I'm actually on ascii stuff? Shouldn't the dist-upgrade have updated something? |
| 17:52.17 | MachinaeWolf | and in the update it still listed some jessie stuff ?_? |
| 17:53.00 | parazyd | MachinaeWolf: can you paste /etc/apt/sources.list and whatever's in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ? |
| 17:53.19 | MachinaeWolf | k hold on |
| 17:55.04 | MachinaeWolf | http://dpaste.com/23T6XN5 |
| 17:55.25 | parazyd | fourth line :P |
| 17:55.54 | Akuli | ascii-updates sounds funny :) |
| 17:55.57 | Akuli | nice codename! |
| 17:56.25 | MachinaeWolf | So what should it be? |
| 17:56.35 | DusXMT | MachinaeWolf: ascii =3 |
| 17:56.41 | parazyd | ^ |
| 17:56.50 | MachinaeWolf | oh |
| 17:56.55 | MachinaeWolf | ok I'll fix that and try again |
| 17:57.05 | DusXMT | You only have security updates form ascii, and I'm not sure testing even has security updates |
| 17:57.42 | Akuli | When will the non-beta jessie be released? |
| 17:58.03 | parazyd | two weeks(TM) |
| 17:58.39 | MachinaeWolf | yep now it's in effect, all those updates to packages |
| 17:58.45 | parazyd | :) |
| 17:58.47 | Akuli | parazyd, you meant TwoWeeks⢠:) |
| 17:58.48 | parazyd | great |
| 17:58.54 | parazyd | Akuli: yes :D |
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| 18:19.11 | MachinaeWolf | So every weekend just to apt-get upgrade but not dist-upgrade right? |
| 18:20.55 | Akuli | does my devuan receive updates without editing sources.list? |
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| 18:32.03 | KatolaZ | Akuli: it depends on what you have in your sources.list |
| 18:32.18 | Akuli | The default stuff, let me boot up my devuan computer. |
| 18:32.31 | DusXMT | Akuli: The defaults have changed over time |
| 18:32.35 | Akuli | 12-year-old piece of crap, but boots up damn fast. |
| 18:32.52 | KatolaZ | if you have jessie-updates and jessie-security you will get updates and security patches |
| 18:32.58 | Akuli | I think i have |
| 18:33.04 | KatolaZ | when you run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade |
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| 18:34.33 | Akuli | hmm i think the computer has problems... just a moment |
| 18:35.09 | Akuli | Doesn't find grub if i have a mouse plugged in |
| 18:35.14 | Akuli | Like i said, a real piece of crap! |
| 18:35.27 | KatolaZ | Akuli: never let know a computer that you are happy about how well it works :D |
| 18:39.20 | DusXMT | has one which wouldn't find the USB keyboard if a PS2 wasn't plugged in ... dunno if it changed when I updated the bios, been using a PS2 keyboard on it for quite some time (An IBM Model M) |
| 18:40.14 | MachinaeWolf | Is it normal to see fopen: Permission denied on some apt-get commands run as root? |
| 18:40.28 | MachinaeWolf | Hasn't stopped it from working but caught my eye |
| 18:40.32 | Akuli | my sources.list http://termbin.com/dddu |
| 18:40.35 | Akuli | pretty shurt |
| 18:40.37 | Akuli | short |
| 18:45.51 | KatolaZ | you do have jessie-updates and jessie-security |
| 18:46.26 | Akuli | Ok, so i'm good to go? |
| 18:50.25 | Akuli | Reading back, i am :) |
| 18:50.43 | KatolaZ | I suppose you are |
| 18:50.47 | KatolaZ | if you run apt-get update |
| 18:50.50 | KatolaZ | and apt-get upgrade |
| 18:51.03 | Akuli | Nothing happens because the installation is only two days old. |
| 18:51.15 | KatolaZ | great |
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| 19:15.34 | Guest4314 | Hello World! |
| 19:18.45 | enyc | DusXMT: i have a board with annoying amibios that won't boot without keyboard no matter what you set |
| 19:19.45 | enyc | DusXMT: i now have a ps/2 keyboard cable with 10cm of cable and the small circuitboard (about 5cm*2cm) from a otherwise-broken ps/2 keyboard, just with the 3 keyboardlights showing through the tape round it ;p -- can still see if there has been a kernel-panic etc =) |
| 19:21.03 | enyc | DusXMT: now 'its got its keyboard and its happy' ;p |
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| 19:28.11 | MachinaeWolf | man I hope apt-get autoremove won't trash some stuff I need... |
| 19:28.24 | MachinaeWolf | it's removing a bunch of stuff... |
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| 19:29.55 | flrn | MachinaeWolf: I use debfoster, still need to be careful but in smaller units. |
| 19:30.21 | flrn | also: orphaner |
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| 19:44.11 | MachinaeWolf | Is it normal for cups to be running cpu at 98/99%??? |
| 19:44.18 | MachinaeWolf | I don't think so |
| 19:45.09 | MachinaeWolf | I just have screen, weechat, and an empty terminal in screen and it's using 111mb ram? |
| 19:45.14 | MachinaeWolf | Shouldn't that be lower??? |
| 19:46.04 | MachinaeWolf | this should be running lower and cooler than that I'm pretty sure |
| 19:46.07 | furrywolf | cups should only be using lots of cpu while rasterizing pages and other processing-intensive tasks. cups, however, has a tendancy to suck. |
| 19:46.22 | MachinaeWolf | well unfortunately I need it to print stuff |
| 19:46.48 | furrywolf | as do I. and it generally does a good job at that. but it occasionally sucks. :) |
| 19:47.16 | MachinaeWolf | yeah I think that's what's making it use so much and run hotter |
| 19:47.22 | MachinaeWolf | So what't the solution? |
| 19:48.00 | furrywolf | restart cups and see if it stops? |
| 19:48.41 | furrywolf | or does it do this every boot? |
| 19:49.17 | MachinaeWolf | well I just did /etc/init.d/cups stop lol |
| 19:49.28 | MachinaeWolf | furrywolf: it's done this since ascii dist-upgrade |
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| 19:49.53 | furrywolf | hrmm. could be an old config not loading correctly, or something. |
| 19:50.17 | furrywolf | did you upgrade the kernel or such at the same time? might try a full reboot to make sure all new stuff is loaded. |
| 19:50.43 | MachinaeWolf | restarted cups service and still using 98/99% cpu |
| 19:50.50 | MachinaeWolf | I just did reboot |
| 19:50.56 | MachinaeWolf | couple minutes ago |
| 19:51.49 | furrywolf | hrmm. if you don't have any complex printer configs, you could try purging and reinstalling it. or compile it with debugging symbols and gdb it. :) |
| 19:52.05 | MachinaeWolf | ok |
| 19:52.09 | furrywolf | you could have found a bug |
| 19:52.54 | MachinaeWolf | what's the difference between p7zip and p7zip-full? |
| 19:53.38 | furrywolf | dunno. people still use p7zip? |
| 19:54.29 | MachinaeWolf | I guess so, there's still .7z archives around online |
| 19:54.54 | Lydia_K | Amazingly some windows people do, and it does get very good compression ratios. |
| 19:56.44 | MachinaeWolf | yeah |
| 19:57.02 | MachinaeWolf | I needed it on linux at one point, might for something again |
| 19:58.52 | MachinaeWolf | yeah that fixed it furrywolf, not running so high anymroe |
| 19:58.54 | MachinaeWolf | anymore* |
| 19:59.31 | MachinaeWolf | How do I get it to want to stop removing hp-lip stuff though lol |
| 20:03.03 | MachinaeWolf | nvm told it to install those and it stopped |
| 20:08.02 | furrywolf | bbl, need to head to the tire shop. |
| 20:24.27 | MachinaeWolf | uh oh my .xinitrc didn't work so good... |
| 20:25.22 | MachinaeWolf | it locked up and wouldn't do anything after loading couldn't even move mouse |
| 20:25.38 | MachinaeWolf | had to ctrl + alt + print screen + r to get back to tty1 |
| 20:35.35 | MachinaeWolf | Is there a way to make a package not autoremove? |
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| 20:37.21 | flrn | apt-get install <already installed package> |
| 20:37.43 | MachinaeWolf | lol that's it? |
| 20:38.31 | flrn | that's how i do it... |
| 20:40.10 | flrn | if there's a way to make it a suggest/recommend of another package, i'd like to know. |
| 20:42.41 | flrn | *another package that uses its functionality although it didn't pull it in. |
| 20:44.15 | MachinaeWolf | Do I need packagekit? |
| 20:46.07 | MinceR | probably not |
| 20:46.21 | MinceR | some inferior gui frontends to package managers use it |
| 20:46.28 | MachinaeWolf | ah |
| 20:46.41 | MinceR | but if you want a gui frontend that doesn't leave the apt database locked while it's running, it's probably your best bet |
| 20:46.48 | MinceR | i prefer synaptic though, which doesn't use packagekit |
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| 20:49.02 | MachinaeWolf | you can use libreoffice w/o libreoffice-gtk...? |
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| 20:53.07 | MinceR | could be possible |
| 20:53.24 | MinceR | iirc libreoffice-gtk merely helps LO look (and act?) more like native gtk applications |
| 20:53.28 | MinceR | but i could be wrong about this |
| 20:59.33 | flrn | lo runs perfectly without it. afaik it implements the gtk file chooser dialog and some gui adaption. |
| 21:03.25 | MachinaeWolf | Man I have some weird Xorg issue, I'm going to have to tell y'all about it later, going to leave soon |
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| 21:58.31 | jfl | hello |
| 21:59.12 | jfl | I had trouble installing devuan 1.0.0, but it's fixed |
| 22:00.18 | jfl | Originally I could not boot from dvd => booted from thumb drive |
| 22:01.10 | jfl | but, after partition, got BAD Signature Devuan Primary key => used netinstall |
| 22:01.53 | jfl | things seem to have gone swimmingly, everything seems very good |
| 22:02.41 | jfl | I will continue installing things I use that are not part of the installation and report difficulties should they arise |
| 22:03.36 | jfl | thanks for all your help (so far) |
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| 22:49.49 | jsfarinet | hi all |
| 23:08.57 | jsfarinet | just a question: i installed the beta so far all is fine. Now, id like to get a more modern kernel. Is that possible? |
| 23:13.20 | flrn | jsfarinet: I see 4.5 in jessie-backports |
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| 23:39.22 | TwistedFate | Is Devuan beta completely clear of systemd? |