| 04:55.36 | *** join/#devlounge purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 04:55.36 | *** topic/#devlounge is IT MIGHT LOOK HARMLESS BUT DON'T BE FOOLED: http://www.livescience.com/images/050217_hrobots_delft_02.jpg || Hate mornings? Show it: http://www.cafepress.com/destroymornings |
| 05:16.46 | *** join/#devlounge purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 05:16.46 | *** topic/#devlounge is IT MIGHT LOOK HARMLESS BUT DON'T BE FOOLED: http://www.livescience.com/images/050217_hrobots_delft_02.jpg || Hate mornings? Show it: http://www.cafepress.com/destroymornings |
| 07:33.06 | ChipX86 | "Excuse me, is there someone you know who has or is a pain in the neck?" -- local hottub commercial |
| 07:33.30 | grim | lol |
| 07:34.51 | grim | ? |
| 07:34.55 | grim | grr.. |
| 07:35.00 | grim | wrong window again.. |
| 07:35.03 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 07:35.15 | grim | i really need to write that focus follows eyes thing i keep talking about |
| 07:35.32 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 07:35.45 | grim | you interested in helping? :) |
| 07:36.18 | purple_cow | hehe, you could probably use one of scanline's projects for that :) |
| 07:36.20 | ChipX86 | way too many projects ;) |
| 07:36.24 | ChipX86 | yeah really |
| 07:36.45 | grim | what does scanline have in the way of this.. |
| 07:36.53 | ChipX86 | what doesn't he? |
| 07:36.58 | purple_cow | he was playing with computer vision stuff |
| 07:37.16 | grim | is it on navi.cx? |
| 07:37.22 | grim | lol |
| 07:37.27 | ChipX86 | purple_cow: that's awesome |
| 07:37.30 | ChipX86 | I need to visit. |
| 07:37.33 | purple_cow | http://navi.cx/svn/misc/trunk/vision/ |
| 07:37.39 | ChipX86 | I need another month of vacation time |
| 07:38.02 | purple_cow | http://navi.cx/images/vision/tn/duck_tracker.jpeg.html |
| 07:38.15 | ChipX86 | :D I love the duck tracker |
| 07:38.20 | ChipX86 | ooh, my new hackergotchi is on Planet GNOME |
| 07:39.22 | ChipX86 | I look better in that one |
| 07:41.05 | scanline | cyay, duck |
| 07:41.09 | scanline | s/c// |
| 07:42.05 | scanline | oh no, ChipX86 looks less like an angstful teen in this one |
| 07:42.13 | ChipX86 | yay! |
| 07:42.16 | scanline | yay |
| 07:42.19 | ChipX86 | sadly, that other one was the best pic I had |
| 07:42.26 | scanline | hehe |
| 07:42.47 | grim | scanline: so how'd the focus follows head stuff turn out? |
| 07:45.16 | ChipX86 | game |
| 07:45.21 | scanline | grim: kinda slow, and nauseating, but fun |
| 07:45.54 | grim | scanline: and this was with a firewire cam? |
| 07:45.59 | scanline | yep |
| 07:46.13 | scanline | it was processing it at 30fps, but that still feels slow for an input device |
| 07:46.18 | scanline | and there was some latency due to the filtering |
| 07:46.25 | grim | scanline: my cam is usb 1.1... so it looks like i'll probably be waiting before i actually give it a go.. |
| 07:46.31 | scanline | yeah |
| 07:46.49 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 07:46.53 | ChipX86 | usb 1.1 will work. You just have to overclock it! |
| 07:47.00 | ChipX86 | silly. |
| 07:47.11 | scanline | to harness the power of sunspots and produce cognitive radiation? |
| 07:47.18 | ChipX86 | exactly |
| 07:47.42 | ChipX86 | yay Talim |
| 07:48.50 | ChipX86 | boo lizard guy |
| 07:49.52 | purple_cow | lizard guy? |
| 07:50.02 | ChipX86 | there's a lizard guy that killed me |
| 07:50.06 | purple_cow | ah |
| 08:00.58 | grim | night guys |
| 10:01.44 | *** join/#devlounge mathrick (~mathrick@195.116.35.55) |
| 17:43.11 | *** part/#devlounge a-atwood (~xf009976@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 18:04.36 | *** join/#devlounge mathrick (~mathrick@195.116.35.55) |
| 18:11.57 | kergoth | its too quiet in here. |
| 18:17.19 | TD | always is |
| 18:17.24 | kergoth | yes |
| 18:17.25 | kergoth | its broken |
| 18:17.41 | TD | instead of working :( |
| 18:17.49 | kergoth | stories? |
| 18:17.52 | TD | slashdot/osnews |
| 18:18.03 | TD | basically red hat have this next-gen rendering team working on X and stuff |
| 18:18.09 | TD | and they're talking about new theming systems for GTK+ |
| 18:18.19 | TD | raster pointed out that they're talking about what ejde/ewl already do |
| 18:18.53 | kergoth | ah right |
| 18:19.19 | kergoth | the e17 foundation libs are pretty impressive |
| 18:19.29 | TD | yeah. they actually have docs too now |
| 18:19.33 | TD | kergoth: already done! |
| 18:19.42 | kergoth | really/ |
| 18:19.42 | TD | check out eem.avi, most amazing PDA gui i've ever seen |
| 18:19.48 | ChipX86 | yeah, cool stuff |
| 18:19.52 | TD | though the video only shows the menus. maybe that's all it can do :) |
| 18:19.56 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:20.06 | TD | one of the annoying things about rasters videos is the way they seem to repeat trivial actions over and over |
| 18:20.12 | TD | they look great. but .... surely it can do more than that!? |
| 18:20.35 | treke | you mean raster's software does more than look pretty? |
| 18:20.38 | kergoth | nod, should do a better job of showcasing each feature |
| 18:20.41 | TD | heh |
| 18:20.41 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:21.56 | TD | hmm "Because they change the APIs and do complete rewrites all of the time. E is not a serious desktop environment for people who want to get things done or develop software" |
| 18:22.02 | TD | in response to my question "why does nobody use these libs"? |
| 18:22.07 | TD | pretty much what i guessed in fact |
| 18:29.12 | mathrick | has rasterman.com been slashdotted? |
| 18:29.29 | mathrick | it's always slow, but now it's super-slow |
| 18:30.17 | TD | yeah |
| 18:52.11 | *** join/#devlounge kergoth (~kergoth@ip71.churchill-park.dfw.ygnition.net) |
| 18:52.24 | *** join/#devlounge kergoth_ (~kergoth@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 18:52.45 | *** join/#devlounge kergoth__ (~kergoth@ip71.churchill-park.dfw.ygnition.net) |
| 18:55.48 | *** join/#devlounge mjg59 (mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk) |
| 18:57.11 | *** join/#devlounge kergoth_ (~kergoth@ip71.churchill-park.dfw.ygnition.net) |
| 20:36.54 | *** join/#devlounge pb_ (~pb@2002:5168:d330:1:a00:1fff:fe06:93c) |
| 20:54.20 | pb_ | heh, just got home and found my car in a different spot to where I left it this morning. |
| 20:54.29 | pb_ | I guess the builders must have towed it out of their way or something. |
| 20:58.19 | kergoth | okay, question for people in here who use gnupg/pgp |
| 20:58.31 | kergoth | what do you generally set your expiration on the keypair to? |
| 20:58.51 | pb_ | never |
| 20:59.08 | kergoth | thats what i did, and then i lost my damn key when a drive went |
| 20:59.14 | kergoth | so now i've got this key sitting on servers |
| 20:59.15 | kergoth | indefinately |
| 20:59.17 | kergoth | :\ |
| 20:59.29 | pb_ | ah. yeah, it only works if you have backup so you can generate a revocation. |
| 20:59.45 | kergoth | guess i _should_ just learn to back shit up for once |
| 20:59.52 | kergoth | itd be nice to not lose my bookmarks every 6 months |
| 21:00.40 | pb_ | heh |
| 21:00.53 | kergoth | hm |
| 21:00.59 | kergoth | i should buy some blank dvds and actually use the burner |
| 21:01.02 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:01.22 | pb_ | smart thinking |
| 21:01.39 | pb_ | I bought a tape drive last year, planning to use it to back up my $HOME, but I could never get the darn thing to work reliably. |
| 21:01.47 | kergoth | ah, thatd be useful |
| 21:01.53 | pb_ | I should try again, I guess. Maybe the linux firewire drivers have gotten better in the meantime. |
| 21:01.54 | kergoth | ordered an mp3 player last night |
| 21:02.05 | pb_ | heh, very good |
| 21:02.16 | kergoth | yeah, never got around to buying one |
| 21:02.22 | pb_ | I accidentally bought an iPod while I was in the US the other week. should get around to actually putting some music on it, I guess. |
| 21:02.32 | kergoth | how do you accidentally buy an iPod? |
| 21:02.48 | pb_ | well, I was in this shopping mall, and there was an apple store. |
| 21:02.53 | pb_ | and, well, one thing led to another |
| 21:02.59 | purple_cow | heh |
| 21:03.37 | pb_ | it's always tempting to buy stuff like that when I'm in the USA, because I can console myself with the thought that I'm only spending toy money. |
| 21:03.44 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:19.56 | TD | ChipX86: so |
| 21:20.06 | TD | ChipX86: after galago and autopackage and notifications are all massively succesful |
| 21:20.15 | TD | and we've given maintainership to some bright young spark with energy. |
| 21:20.25 | TD | how do you fancy writing a streamable applications framework with me? |
| 21:20.38 | TD | and dual-licensing it under the GPL and making pots of cash whilst still being ethical in the stallmanist sense? |
| 21:21.01 | TD | purple_cow: yeah |
| 21:21.03 | ChipX86 | I have no interest :) |
| 21:21.10 | TD | ChipX86: you suck :) |
| 21:21.16 | ChipX86 | today, I'm worn out, and don't want to think about any extra work |
| 21:21.22 | purple_cow | TD: define? |
| 21:21.23 | TD | ChipX86: i'm talking about, like, years in the future |
| 21:21.48 | TD | purple_cow: web apps are good because they load nearly instantly, don't require installation, and work nearly anywhere. but DHTML sucks more than i can possible articulate |
| 21:21.55 | ChipX86 | yeah, right now I feel like not doing anything years in the future. It's just a bad day for this discussion ;) |
| 21:22.11 | TD | so the challenge is: write a framework that is (a) tiny, (b) designed to force people to write modular, load-on-demand apps |
| 21:22.16 | TD | but with the flexibility and richness of client side apps |
| 21:22.17 | purple_cow | so like java? |
| 21:22.20 | TD | no |
| 21:22.20 | purple_cow | :P |
| 21:22.28 | TD | java is anything *but* streamable. |
| 21:22.43 | TD | you can easily end up loading 100 classes just to get your app to do something. and the VM is like 35mb |
| 21:22.46 | ChipX86 | it's everything but streamable! |
| 21:22.51 | TD | lol |
| 21:22.59 | CosmicPenguin | .net will be better in that regard |
| 21:23.05 | TD | hardly. it's just a clone of java |
| 21:23.16 | TD | the thing with DHTML+JavaScript is that it forces people to write in unit form |
| 21:23.22 | TD | each "screen" is a page. and it's loaded on demand. quickly |
| 21:23.31 | TD | html+javascript is tiny and mod_gzip makes it tinier |
| 21:23.41 | ChipX86 | TD: yeah, they should fix that. |
| 21:23.51 | TD | so take those nice bits of web apps and put it into a framework actually designed for apps |
| 21:23.55 | TD | then move to honolulu |
| 21:23.57 | purple_cow | TD: i think unless you have an execution environment already running, instant loading is a pipe dream |
| 21:24.40 | TD | well, maybe |
| 21:24.49 | TD | we're solving a similar problem with autopackage |
| 21:25.08 | TD | right now you just run the .package file, and it streams the components in as they're needed. now it could be a *lot* better |
| 21:25.19 | TD | the minimum is about 200k of stuff, which could be improved a lot |
| 21:25.25 | TD | if you want the pretty GUI, that's another 150k or so. |
| 21:25.29 | TD | but it's still acceptable. |
| 21:25.40 | ChipX86 | we need a 3D GUI for package installation |
| 21:25.46 | purple_cow | welp, i'm off to go prove that i know what a context-free language is |
| 21:25.54 | kergoth | have fun |
| 21:25.54 | TD | good luck! |
| 21:26.54 | ChipX86 | purple_cow: you should give examples like befunge |
| 21:27.48 | TD | no, seriously. i think it'd be a fascinating project to work on, because writing that kind of stuff is so different to "regular" apps |
| 21:39.16 | TD | especially as it's a good excuse for some EXTREME CODING to reduce overhead |
| 21:42.21 | kergoth | i should switch to more of a iterative development model in my projects |
| 21:44.54 | TD | in fact autopackage is a good case study in how you would go about actually doing streamable apps |
| 21:45.01 | TD | it reuses technology that's already on the system aggressively |
| 21:45.15 | TD | it comes in an executable form that downloads the core just in time. |
| 21:45.29 | TD | it's mostly text based, which compresses very well and is easy to script |
| 22:16.06 | kergoth | ~nslookup pgp.mit.edu |
| 22:27.55 | kergoth | hmm |
| 22:28.25 | kergoth | anyone know if its possible to setup a gpg agent, and forward gpg bits back over ssh to the local agent from a remote box? |
| 22:28.33 | kergoth | that way you wouldnt need the keys on a remote mailserver you use mutt on |
| 22:28.38 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:34.03 | ChipX86 | we just took a tour of the other building and I got to see what office I'm working in |
| 23:34.08 | kergoth | col |
| 23:34.11 | kergoth | cool, even |
| 23:34.34 | ChipX86 | I've got a corner office overlooking a couple of fountains, the pond, and the balcony |
| 23:34.39 | ChipX86 | covered in giant windows |
| 23:34.43 | purple_cow | wow |
| 23:34.51 | ChipX86 | with a little room just outside of it that separates us from the hallway |
| 23:34.52 | kergoth | wow |
| 23:34.57 | ChipX86 | we want to stick interns there and have them make us food |
| 23:35.06 | ChipX86 | Regis and I are sharing it |
| 23:35.13 | ChipX86 | we're going to get a couch in there (it's more than big enough) |
| 23:35.32 | ChipX86 | and we're just down the hall from the kitchen |
| 23:36.22 | ChipX86 | lucked out :) although all the offices assigned to our team are rather spacious with a nice view |
| 23:37.07 | pb_ | heh, very good. our new building has no view at all, to speak of. |
| 23:38.16 | pb_ | fairly spacious, though. I think our four engineers get about 2000 square feet between them. |
| 23:38.26 | CosmicPenguin | We have no view either, but the good news is that everybody has an office and *nobody* has a office with a window |
| 23:38.42 | ChipX86 | heh |
| 23:39.08 | ChipX86 | every member of our team gets a window. Engineeres here arent' allowed to have cubicles unless there just isnt' any other way |
| 23:48.36 | pb_ | CosmicPenguin: ah, heh. we have plenty of windows, but they don't look out onto anything that's really worth looking at. |
