| 00:01.26 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@194.5.53.112) |
| 00:03.13 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 00:03.32 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 00:05.28 | *** join/#debian nifker (~Thunderbi@87.123.49.211) |
| 00:08.34 | MikeDebian | guys, is it possible to use extundelete on raid mdadm raid array? |
| 00:08.35 | MikeDebian | need to recover some unintentionally deleted files... |
| 00:10.04 | MikeDebian | the array is already stopped, now Im trying to mount it as readonly, though not sure if mdadm --assemble --readonly /dev/mdX us enough. mount -o remount, ro /dev/mdX /mnt/whatever is returning "bad option" error |
| 00:10.25 | *** join/#debian Marqeaux (~Marqeaux@84-106-61-112.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 00:11.20 | ratrace | MikeDebian: did you typo that space after comma in mount on your command line too? |
| 00:13.17 | MikeDebian | no. without the space I get the bad option error. With the space it simply gives me mount command usage instructions |
| 00:13.43 | MikeDebian | so, "mount -o remount,ro /dev/mdX /mnt/whatever" returns me bad option error |
| 00:13.44 | *** join/#debian pavelow (~pavelow@opticalchimp.com) |
| 00:13.53 | MikeDebian | any ideas ratrace? |
| 00:14.05 | ratrace | that's ext4 there? |
| 00:14.40 | ratrace | also that mdadm assemble command looks incomplete, you should've listed members in the array |
| 00:15.07 | MikeDebian | yes, the filesystem of the array is ext4 |
| 00:16.09 | MikeDebian | no need to specify the members as mdadm detects them when simply assembling them |
| 00:16.29 | MikeDebian | if I do "mdadm --assemble /dev/mdX" its assembling with the 4 drives in it |
| 00:16.54 | ratrace | MikeDebian: a'ight. and /proc/mdstat shows fully functional UUUU array? |
| 00:17.23 | *** join/#debian dez (uid92154@fedora/deSouza) |
| 00:17.34 | ratrace | MikeDebian: and wait... you used -o remount ... was the fs even mounted at that moment? |
| 00:18.03 | twb | MikeDebian: to answer your original question |
| 00:18.22 | twb | MikeDebian: extundelete (probably) reads blocks that are marked unused but not yet overwritten |
| 00:18.48 | MikeDebian | ratrace, cat /proc/mdstat reports a fully functional array. mdadm --detail /dev/mdX also reports no issues |
| 00:18.55 | twb | MikeDebian: ext4 on mdadm should work for that -- call extundelete on /dev/md256 rather than the underlying disks |
| 00:19.05 | MikeDebian | ratrace, no it was not mounted |
| 00:19.32 | twb | MikeDebian: note that fstrim or mount -o delete or blkdiscard *may* wipe the blocks that extundelete looks for |
| 00:19.34 | MikeDebian | twb, I'm hopeful it works but first need to mount this raid as read only |
| 00:19.47 | twb | MikeDebian: ah before that make the disks themselves read-only |
| 00:20.02 | twb | MikeDebian: there's something in /sys/class to do that IIRC... Debian Live used to do it for forensic reasons |
| 00:20.33 | twb | MikeDebian: but to answer your direct question, "mdadm --assemble --scan --readonly". |
| 00:20.53 | MikeDebian | twb, mdadm --assemble --readonly /dev/mdX works fine |
| 00:20.56 | ratrace | MikeDebian: -o remount should be used on already mounted filesystems. try without it |
| 00:20.57 | MikeDebian | the problem is with mounting |
| 00:21.15 | twb | MikeDebian: did ext4 crash? |
| 00:21.28 | twb | MikeDebian: probably ext4 cannot replay the in-flight journal |
| 00:21.36 | twb | MikeDebian: check dmesg for complaints from ext4.ko |
| 00:21.42 | MikeDebian | ratrace, let me give a try |
| 00:21.45 | MikeDebian | twb, no crash |
| 00:21.59 | MikeDebian | just deleted some files by mistae |
| 00:22.00 | MikeDebian | mistake |
| 00:22.20 | MikeDebian | a few minutes later I shutdown the server to make my chances higher of not having the block overwritten |
| 00:22.28 | twb | MikeDebian: FWIW this is why you have snapshots |
| 00:22.39 | ratrace | and backups |
| 00:22.39 | *** join/#debian Ashdemai (~ash@bzq-109-66-110-32.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 00:22.41 | Ashdemai | hello |
| 00:22.52 | MikeDebian | unfortunately didnt have one and such a backup of those particular files were not in place yet |
| 00:23.35 | Ashdemai | I'm trying to install elixir, but it shows me a lot of dependencies that refuse to install |
| 00:23.37 | twb | c'est la vie :-( |
| 00:23.44 | *** join/#debian ax5623 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 00:24.06 | MikeDebian | ratrace, yes, the problem was that simple. not using remount |
| 00:24.14 | MikeDebian | so let's see if I can recover these bad boys |
| 00:24.54 | twb | unless the drive is 80% full, blocks probably still around |
| 00:25.02 | twb | but reboot wouldn't have helped |
| 00:25.18 | *** join/#debian greknod8 (~g@124-169-193-29.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:25.56 | MikeDebian | twb it's not 80%.. far from that yet |
| 00:26.49 | *** join/#debian KhanKrugger (~Khan@2804:7f7:dd8c:fe8b:2cce:58ff:fec0:f18e) |
| 00:28.03 | MikeDebian | assuming the array is mounted in /mnt/raid and I want to restore a full directory I should run: "extundelete /dev/mdX --restore-directory /mnt/raid/home/whatever/directory/to_recover/" |
| 00:28.06 | MikeDebian | right? |
| 00:28.28 | ratrace | I never had to use it so I wouldn't know, sorry. |
| 00:28.56 | *** join/#debian secntech (~secntech@unaffiliated/secntech) |
| 00:29.11 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 00:29.27 | MikeDebian | it seems its actually "home/whatever/directory/to_recover" |
| 00:29.46 | MikeDebian | the path is relative to the root of the partition (in this case to the root of the raid array) |
| 00:33.41 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 00:35.39 | *** join/#debian phraud (~phraud@cpe085b0e931ed0-cmbc4dfbd36880.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:36.33 | MikeDebian | it seems I'm out of luck... |
| 00:36.45 | *** join/#debian wwilliam (~afernande@unaffiliated/wwilliam) |
| 00:37.15 | MikeDebian | it reports 0 recoverable inodes...found no files were undeleted |
| 00:37.53 | *** join/#debian renzhi (~renzhi@2607:fa49:653f:ba00::e0e5) |
| 00:38.31 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@118-93-134-122.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) |
| 00:38.36 | *** join/#debian mcole (~sdfsidjf@KD113148020047.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) |
| 00:38.38 | *** join/#debian S3xyL1nux (~rene@114.199.159.122) |
| 00:42.35 | *** join/#debian tyzef (~tyzef@202.153.81.236) |
| 00:43.56 | twb | MikeDebian: dunno sorry |
| 00:44.07 | twb | MikeDebian: my guess is "/mnt/raid/" should be omitted |
| 00:44.22 | *** join/#debian tsal (~tsal@i59F5F906.versanet.de) |
| 00:44.52 | *** join/#debian Ashdemai (~ash@bzq-109-66-110-32.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 00:44.53 | *** join/#debian seanrobert (~seanrober@2601:140:9000:4550:590:32c8:be7d:bea) |
| 00:46.32 | *** join/#debian beelzebuzz (~rasputin@gateway/tor-sasl/beelzebuzz) |
| 00:50.53 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 00:56.37 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@118-93-134-122.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) |
| 00:58.32 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@118-93-134-122.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) |
| 00:59.57 | *** join/#debian magyar (~magyar@unaffiliated/magyar) |
| 01:02.07 | *** join/#debian DonovonFargan (602bb31a@96.43.179.26) |
| 01:11.16 | *** join/#debian edufmass (~edumass@unaffiliated/edufmass) |
| 01:13.22 | *** join/#debian MikeDebian (~none@bl11-47-156.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 01:13.52 | MikeDebian | extundelete is not giving me much luck |
| 01:14.18 | MikeDebian | anyone has used ext4magic before? |
| 01:14.58 | MikeDebian | "ext4magic /dev/mdX -f directory/to/recover" lists me all the files that were there |
| 01:15.06 | MikeDebian | this gives me some hope |
| 01:15.44 | MikeDebian | but when trying to recover the directory or the files it doesnt work. even recovering files that I know were not deleted is not working. I might be doing something wrong |
| 01:16.47 | *** join/#debian Scotty_Trees (~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:17.31 | *** join/#debian DDDD (~DDDD@h-190-15.A400.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 01:18.57 | dvs | time to start using rsnapshot |
| 01:19.15 | twb | What was the file you deleted anyway |
| 01:23.12 | ratrace | rsnapshot was great, I used to use it for backups, in the ancient days before zfs and btrfs. :) |
| 01:24.31 | *** join/#debian MrFixIt (~Sam@c-73-246-215-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:25.24 | MikeDebian | the files were related to an internal nvr web software that I've been developing. In the meantime I remembered that I actually backed it up on the 30th of December so I have a backup at least. but some great improvements have been done since then. I wouldn't like to be redoing them |
| 01:25.55 | ratrace | let me introduce you to my friend Git, and his friend, daily commits. :) |
| 01:26.18 | ratrace | (and his friend's friend, git push to a remote origin) |
| 01:27.27 | *** join/#debian wobelinger (57803331@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:27.36 | dvs | !start a repo war |
| 01:27.42 | dvs | darn it! |
| 01:28.52 | *** join/#debian k4nz_ (~k4nz@115.197.187.121) |
| 01:28.54 | *** join/#debian k4nz1 (~Thunderbi@115.197.187.121) |
| 01:29.34 | ratrace | what war lol. git won over everything else long time ago. |
| 01:30.10 | wobelinger | eine wunderschönen guten morgen alle mit einander |
| 01:30.10 | ratrace | even freebsd, the bastion of svn, switched. openbsd still does CVS but .... nobody cares what openbsd does :) |
| 01:30.28 | wobelinger | bei euch ist es sicher gerade 1 oder 2 nachmittags |
| 01:33.41 | twb | ratrace: the biggest problem with rsnapshot is its stupid bloody config file |
| 01:34.09 | twb | but they never gave me a budget to fix it |
| 01:35.22 | dvs | ??? I didn't find it too difficult. |
| 01:35.59 | ratrace | it worked for me. iirc there was some gotchas about it, but in the end, it worked mighty fine. |
| 01:36.06 | qman__ | I wrote my own rsync script ages ago |
| 01:37.23 | qman__ | I actually use backuppc for most of my stuff, only use the rsync script on a couple systems where they're backing up to other locally attached storage |
| 01:38.18 | ratrace | I still use rsync, but I'm shipping zfs and btrfs snapshots around |
| 01:38.24 | *** join/#debian ax5623 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 01:41.53 | qman__ | I'm actually using the rsync script to back up a non-ZFS volume to a ZFS volume, and then ZFS sending it to another machine |
| 01:42.15 | qman__ | with snapshots |
| 01:43.18 | twb | rsnapshot uses literal tabs as inter-record separators, and also if you e.g. do not set cmd_cp to /bin/cp, it will instead use a vastly less efficient in-perl cp |
| 01:43.27 | twb | i.e. it's not smart enough to just *look* for cp in $PATH |
| 01:46.59 | *** join/#debian acheam (~Armaan@138.197.13.194) |
| 01:49.13 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
| 01:53.13 | *** join/#debian fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 01:58.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1137] by debhelper |
| 01:58.16 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 02:00.01 | *** join/#debian GenTooMan (~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883) |
| 02:00.12 | edufmass | Hello, I need some advice. When installing the system a host is defined then a domain. I have a domain pointing to my home ip to use with apache, etc. I don't know the relationship between real domain and domain defined in installation |
| 02:01.16 | sney | the domain field in the installer is only used for dns purposes. |
| 02:01.59 | twb | if you're on a home LAN you probably don't have a real domain anyways |
| 02:02.08 | sney | apache may (I don't use apache so I don't remember) auto populate some configs from that, but it doesn't have a major effect on anything, and you can change/remove it in /etc/resolv.conf and hosts |
| 02:02.16 | twb | and the local stuff will all be on .local MDNS |
| 02:05.42 | edufmass | ok, thanks :) |
| 02:11.44 | MikeDebian | I'm recovering files... :D |
| 02:15.49 | *** join/#debian Grldfrdom (uid391113@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkrnywetfpkadwrq) |
| 02:16.10 | *** join/#debian Mazhive (~Mazhive@200.71.255.242) |
| 02:16.28 | *** join/#debian fmaurer_ (~quassel@185.128.216.6) |
| 02:17.43 | Mazhive | it looks like the second screen is a second x screen without menu |
| 02:17.48 | *** join/#debian sidmo_ (~ident@p5b3d818c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:18.24 | Mazhive | panel ... etc .. mouse visible while moving but buttons not working |
| 02:22.39 | *** join/#debian fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 02:23.29 | Mazhive | funny thing when i play dota on screen one and move my cursor to the second screen it changes the current window (screen dota ) to my main screen like you would do with alt tab |
| 02:24.43 | *** join/#debian CombatVet (~c4@gateway/tor-sasl/combatvet) |
| 02:25.05 | *** join/#debian black_ant (~antilope@unaffiliated/black-ant/x-1505394) |
| 02:26.14 | *** join/#debian sparky4 (~sparky4@hutcheson-099.resnet.latech.edu) |
| 02:27.10 | *** join/#debian mcole (~sdfsidjf@KD113148020047.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) |
| 02:27.52 | fling | Where to find 5.10 kernel config? |
| 02:28.55 | rk4 | your one? could try /proc/config.gz, once upon a time it used to be in /boot/ too |
| 02:29.31 | fling | which package is needed for it to appear in /boot? |
| 02:30.09 | *** join/#debian shiki (~sevu@dynamic-078-055-053-010.78.55.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 02:34.56 | fling | What is the config filename? |
| 02:36.12 | jmcnaught | fling: the file name will be /boot/config-$(uname -r) |
| 02:36.27 | fling | jmcnaught: what is your named as? |
| 02:36.38 | jmcnaught | config-5.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 02:36.44 | fling | thanks |
| 02:37.12 | *** join/#debian kriskropd (~kriskropd@unaffiliated/kriskropd) |
| 02:38.20 | *** join/#debian kriskropd (~kriskropd@unaffiliated/kriskropd) |
| 02:39.04 | fling | jmcnaught: it gives me no results -> https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=buster&arch=any&searchon=contents&keywords=config-5.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 |
| 02:39.27 | fling | So which package is config coming from? And why is it not on the search? ^ |
| 02:40.04 | jmcnaught | fling: mine is from buster-backports, yours will be different if you are using the stock buster kernel. If you run "ls /boot/config-$(uname -r)" it will show you yours. |
| 02:40.27 | fling | jmcnaught: and what is the package name? |
| 02:41.26 | jmcnaught | fling: for me it is linux-image-5.9.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, for you with stock buster kernel it would be linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64 |
| 02:41.33 | fling | thanks |
| 02:44.19 | *** join/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 02:44.36 | *** join/#debian tsal (~tsal@i59F4DC6F.versanet.de) |
| 02:44.50 | *** join/#debian seanrobert (~seanrober@2601:140:9000:4550:590:32c8:be7d:bea) |
| 02:46.35 | fling | found it -> http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/linux/linux-image-5.10.0-1-amd64-unsigned_5.10.4-1_amd64.deb |
| 02:47.08 | jmcnaught | fling: are you on unstable? |
| 02:47.30 | fling | I'm only running debian in containers |
| 02:47.45 | fling | I think I only have buster |
| 02:48.00 | jmcnaught | http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/linux/linux-image-5.10.0-1-amd64-unsigned_5.10.4-1_amd64.deb is a package from unstable/sid |
| 02:48.04 | *** join/#debian Heavy_Mettle (~Heavy_Met@2001:818:e84c:7f00:51dc:7b8b:2ed0:2636) |
| 02:48.13 | fling | jmcnaught: sure, I just want the kernel config |
| 02:55.46 | twb | fling: an easy way to find out is "lsb_release -a" |
| 02:55.55 | *** join/#debian de-facto_ (~de-facto@unaffiliated/de-facto) |
| 02:56.00 | *** part/#debian k4nz_ (~k4nz@115.197.187.121) |
| 02:56.03 | *** join/#debian Bjornn (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 02:56.09 | twb | fling: do you want the kernel config of your *current kernel*, or of some other specific Debian kernel? |
| 02:58.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1129] by debhelper |
| 02:59.06 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe (~jotaxpe@45.14.71.10) |
| 03:02.02 | *** join/#debian __dutch__ (~DutchIngr@unaffiliated/dutchingraham) |
| 03:04.03 | *** join/#debian Aavar (~aavar@cm-84.212.243.124.getinternet.no) |
| 03:08.26 | *** join/#debian nevivurn (~nevivurn@unaffiliated/nevivurn) |
| 03:08.34 | fling | twb: just wanted 5.10 kernel config |
| 03:08.37 | fling | thanks! :> |
| 03:09.37 | twb | fling: OK |
| 03:09.51 | twb | fling: Debian's config is built from several snippets because it's arch- and variant- specific |
| 03:10.18 | twb | fling: if you want just one, the generic amd64 one, your best bet is to download that .deb and unpack boot/config* and read that |
| 03:10.34 | twb | fling: you can use "dpkg-deb -x foo.deb delete-me/" or you can run tar + ar by hand |
| 03:11.09 | fling | twb: this is almost what I did |
| 03:11.15 | fling | with unar ;> |
| 03:11.29 | twb | This is what I do: |
| 03:11.36 | twb | wget -nc "$deb" && ar p "${deb##*/}" data.tar.xz | tar --xz -x ./"$config" |
| 03:11.56 | twb | Because dpkg-deb doesn't/didn't understand --path-exclude, IIRC |
| 03:12.09 | twb | (And I didn't want to unpack anything EXCEPT the config) |
| 03:12.10 | *** join/#debian jmcgnh (~jmcgnh@wikipedia/jmcgnh) |
| 03:14.01 | *** join/#debian TomyWork (~TomyLobo@p200300e80f4b080061345d2bb9023a5b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:15.12 | fling | sneaky |
| 03:16.05 | twb | I assume like me you're doing some "make oldconfig" stuff |
| 03:16.13 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe_ (~jotaxpe@45.14.71.10) |
| 03:16.26 | twb | Er that's called "make syncconfig" nowadays... |
| 03:18.19 | *** join/#debian abff (~abff@bras-base-ssmron9421w-grc-05-174-95-208-25.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:19.08 | fling | twb: what is syncconfig? omg |
| 03:19.22 | fling | I'm doing colordiff with my current config |
| 03:19.38 | fling | going to try this debian one insted but need to flip few symbols first to get it booting |
| 03:19.46 | fling | I used oldconfig first |
| 03:19.50 | twb | fling: try "git diff --color --no-index" |
| 03:19.57 | twb | It's like diff|colordiff only less annoying |
| 03:20.17 | fling | thanks |
| 03:20.41 | twb | "make syncconfig" is a way to update a .config from linux version N to linux version M |
| 03:20.55 | fling | The issue is stuff using openmp and similar libs crashes on this numa box, not sure if this is because of kernel or something else |
| 03:21.15 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe (~jotaxpe@45.14.71.10) |
| 03:21.20 | twb | So e.g. you can cp /boot/config-4.9 linux-5.0/.config and then "make syncconfig" there, and it'll only prompt you about new options |
| 03:21.43 | fling | yeah |
| 03:22.00 | twb | You probably also should knoe about "make deb-pkg" which is the recommended way to spit out an (unsigned) kernel |
| 03:22.02 | fling | how is it different from oldconfig? |
| 03:22.08 | twb | oldconfig just changed its name |
| 03:22.13 | twb | oldconfig = syncconfig |
| 03:22.29 | fling | is mrproper still there? :D |
| 03:22.37 | twb | dunno |
| 03:24.59 | *** join/#debian seanrobert (~seanrober@2601:140:9000:4550:590:32c8:be7d:bea) |
| 03:25.04 | *** part/#debian abff (~abff@bras-base-ssmron9421w-grc-05-174-95-208-25.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:26.40 | *** join/#debian otmi (~androirc@5.149.156.77) |
| 03:27.42 | *** join/#debian Dotz0cat (~Dotz0cat@h226.193.117.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 03:28.25 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@2407:7000:8d04:100:91d7:e781:55e0:1998) |
| 03:31.40 | *** join/#debian dez (uid92154@fedora/deSouza) |
| 03:33.46 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe (~jotaxpe@45.14.71.10) |
| 03:40.28 | *** join/#debian sig_9 (~sig@dialup-208-98-133-190.fmtc.com) |
| 03:45.15 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe (~jotaxpe@45.14.71.10) |
| 03:45.43 | *** join/#debian bb-8_ (~bb-8@gateway/tor-sasl/bb-8) |
| 03:46.49 | *** join/#debian JPT (~jpt@classified.name) |
| 03:57.50 | *** join/#debian geowiesnot (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 03:58.27 | *** join/#debian abhixec (~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:03.41 | *** join/#debian chachasmooth (~chachasmo@unaffiliated/chachasmooth) |
| 04:04.05 | *** join/#debian alex11 (~alex@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-29-76-67-214-234.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:04.07 | *** join/#debian routebee (~routebee@1.136.106.132) |
| 04:04.17 | alex11 | hi, having some major issues with my xfce desktop |
| 04:04.57 | alex11 | i ran some compiz setting and it borked things, couldn't open window manager settings; so i rebooted, removed compiz and tried to log in, and now it's in this weird state of being borked |
| 04:05.47 | alex11 | i wonder if having removed compiz i need to do another reboot first, maybe it loaded that first when lightdm started up |
| 04:07.08 | twb | alex11: you know xfwm4 is a compositing manager, right? |
| 04:07.18 | *** join/#debian nevivurn (~nevivurn@unaffiliated/nevivurn) |
| 04:07.22 | alex11 | twb: and? |
| 04:07.29 | twb | so you don't need compiz |
| 04:07.46 | alex11 | i thought compiz was the thing that displayed system information |
| 04:07.53 | alex11 | ugh, i'm thinking of conky |
| 04:07.57 | alex11 | stupid me |
| 04:08.06 | alex11 | ok, how do i un-screw this, then? |
| 04:08.06 | twb | OK so you meant conky before? |
| 04:08.17 | alex11 | well, i installed compiz-core thinking it was conky |
| 04:08.29 | twb | OK |
| 04:08.48 | twb | First thing I suggest is make sure you can log in as another user, or into CLI, in case you need to later |
| 04:08.51 | freem | a+ |
| 04:09.02 | alex11 | when i open new windows they spawn at the top of the screen within xfce and i can't move them with ctrl+click |
| 04:09.08 | twb | Then I'd try going into xfce session settings and make sure xfwm4 is set to start, and compiz is not |
| 04:09.12 | alex11 | i'm in ctrl+alt f1 right now, yeah |
| 04:09.14 | *** join/#debian GigaFlow (~GigaFlow@45.14.71.14) |
| 04:09.21 | twb | It sounds like you just have no WM running currently |
| 04:09.34 | *** join/#debian hadwin (~hadwin@2409:8a55:f1a7:5480:b682:8911:8a59:acb6) |
| 04:09.46 | alex11 | i'll see if i can even open the session settings in the first place, one sec |
| 04:09.48 | twb | without a WM, you have focus-follows-mouse and no window resize or move, except what windows implement for themselves |
| 04:10.12 | twb | alex11: the file should be something like ~/.config/xfce4/xfsettings/xwfm4.xml |
| 04:10.18 | twb | er xfsession.xml |
| 04:10.24 | twb | #xfce will know more |
| 04:11.16 | alex11 | in session and startup i don't seem to see compiz (possibly a consequence of my removing it) or xfwm4 |
| 04:12.06 | alex11 | in application autostart, specifically |
| 04:12.12 | alex11 | unless there's another place i should look |
| 04:13.33 | twb | Sorry I don't know exactly and I don't have a reference system to check |
| 04:13.44 | twb | alex11: you can try just running xfwm4 from within the GUI |
| 04:13.55 | twb | If you can't get a shell there, try "DISPLAY=:0 xfwm4" in the CLI |
| 04:14.50 | alex11 | yeah, that helped, twb |
| 04:15.11 | alex11 | so hmm... if i don't have compiz in my autostart programs i can probably just reboot |
| 04:15.14 | JackFrost | What does xfce4-session.xml say? |
| 04:15.43 | twb | alex11: probably |
| 04:16.07 | twb | alex11: if in doubt you can try moving your ~/.config/xf* while not logged into XFCE |
| 04:16.23 | alex11 | brb let me just try a reboot |
| 04:16.37 | twb | You probably also can just kill your user rather than a full reboot |
| 04:19.33 | *** join/#debian alex11 (~alex11@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-29-76-67-214-234.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:19.52 | alex11 | hmm, it apparently still starts compiz |
| 04:20.05 | alex11 | i have to invoke 'xfwm4' to get proper gui behavior again |
| 04:20.51 | alex11 | what was the config file people wanted? |
| 04:21.48 | JackFrost | twb recommended trying to nuke your Xfce config and try logging back in, I add in that you should also dump ~/.cache/session (or whatever it is.) |
| 04:22.14 | twb | also you don't need a full reoot |
| 04:22.15 | alex11 | in the tty i guess |
| 04:22.29 | JackFrost | Ensure xfconfd isn't running, just to make sure. |
| 04:22.30 | *** part/#debian hadwin (~hadwin@2409:8a55:f1a7:5480:b682:8911:8a59:acb6) |
| 04:22.32 | twb | you can just restart GUI, e.g. "pkill -u alex11" or "sudo systemctl restart lightdm" |
| 04:22.41 | alex11 | how do i nuke my xfce config, what part? |
| 04:23.11 | twb | grep -r xfwm4 ~/.config |
| 04:23.14 | twb | grep -r compilz ~/.config |
| 04:23.23 | twb | alex11: ^ I'd try some basic things like that to guess |
| 04:24.30 | alex11 | can i get it back later? i don't want to lose my customizations |
| 04:24.54 | twb | well just move the files, don't delete em |
| 04:27.15 | alex11 | what's the playbook, here? nuke the configs, log back in and... then what? |
| 04:28.20 | alex11 | btw all this stuff is in /home/alex/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/ |
| 04:28.27 | alex11 | if you want the exact file path |
| 04:28.56 | alex11 | i don't understand why there isn't a simpler way to just 'make it work', if i removed compiz |
| 04:29.09 | alex11 | instead of removing configs |
| 04:30.36 | JackFrost | Did you try the grep commands, like twb recommended..? |
| 04:30.54 | alex11 | yes, that's where i got the file path |
| 04:31.21 | alex11 | compiz returned nothing and xfwm4 returned /home/alex/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfwm4.xml and /home/alex/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml |
| 04:31.28 | alex11 | which i've now copied to another folder |
| 04:32.16 | alex11 | .cache/sessions has: thumbs-debian:0/ xfce4-session-debian:0 xfce4-session-debian:0.bak |
| 04:32.37 | alex11 | should i keep one, between session-debian and session-debian.bak? |
| 04:33.30 | JackFrost | I'd say either move or delete the ones in .cache/sessions/, yeah. |
| 04:33.50 | JackFrost | That's mainly if you use the 'save session' checkbox on logout, which can cause issues. |
| 04:34.05 | alex11 | yeah it's just the .cache, i don't need to back that up |
| 04:34.27 | alex11 | but again, what do i do after deleting all that and logging back in? |
| 04:34.46 | alex11 | do i need to tell it to use xfwm4 and not compiz or something (again keeping in mind i already removed it with apt)? |
| 04:35.02 | alex11 | or is that it, as a standalone thing |
| 04:35.11 | alex11 | and it's just to remove excess floatsam and jetsam |
| 04:36.44 | twb | alex11: readlink /etc/alternatives/x-window-manager /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager |
| 04:37.10 | alex11 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:37.25 | alex11 | sorry |
| 04:37.58 | alex11 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:38.47 | twb | that's... extremely silly |
| 04:38.52 | quadrathoch2 | MikeDebian hope it works out for you. If not look into photorec and testdisk (apart from the photorec name it does recover more than photos) and I hope you learned your lesson ^^ |
| 04:39.07 | twb | I think you accidentally put a semicolon in there |
| 04:39.31 | alex11 | in where |
| 04:39.31 | *** join/#debian nickname123 (~nickname1@adsl-84-227-61-42.adslplus.ch) |
| 04:39.36 | twb | 15:36 <twb> alex11: readlink /etc/alternatives/x-window-manager /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager |
| 04:39.44 | twb | It sounds like you actually *executed* /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager |
| 04:40.29 | alex11 | oh i did |
| 04:40.34 | alex11 | lmfao i'm not being very smart tonight |
| 04:41.11 | alex11 | xsession-manager: /usr/bin/startxfce4 |
| 04:43.59 | *** join/#debian ax5623 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 04:45.15 | *** join/#debian spork89 (~stephen@50-24-232-132.htvlcmta01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) |
| 04:45.23 | *** join/#debian Antioch0 (~Antioch@h175-177-044-119.catv02.itscom.jp) |
| 04:45.31 | *** join/#debian Dotz0cat_ (~Dotz0cat@h116.87.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 04:46.02 | *** join/#debian ax5623 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 04:47.18 | alex11 | ok, so what do i do? |
| 04:47.28 | *** join/#debian ax5623 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 04:47.50 | alex11 | is the idea just, move and then delete those files, log back in, re-copy the configs i want? just to clear things out? |
| 04:47.53 | alex11 | or is there another step to it |
| 04:48.52 | alex11 | twb, JackFrost |
| 04:48.57 | *** join/#debian ax5623 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 04:49.43 | JackFrost | alex11: I'd start out just trying to rm sessions and ensure that the checkbox isn't saved on logout. |
| 04:49.45 | twb | alex11: sorry I've done all the basic stuff I know |
| 04:49.59 | twb | alex11: did you ask #xfce |
| 04:50.05 | alex11 | no not yet |
| 04:50.24 | alex11 | JackFrost, i might just uncheck 'save session' and then reboot then? seems like that alone might do the trick |
| 04:50.54 | alex11 | or, well, log out |
| 04:50.55 | alex11 | not reboot |
| 04:50.59 | abhixec | Hi all! I am currently running XMonad+arch on my laptop but am considering debian. I don't particularly have a need for latest linux kernel but I want certain software packages to be latest(xmonad, xmonad-contrib, emacs, vim,..etc) would debian work for me? |
| 04:51.04 | twb | save session basically means it'll remember that you had firefox open, and re-start firefox on login |
| 04:51.20 | twb | I don't *think* it helps with xfce internals |
| 04:51.53 | alex11 | JackFrost, i guess my question is, if i'm just restoring the config later on, won't it re-cause these issues? |
| 04:51.53 | *** join/#debian iamchroot (~iamchroot@unaffiliated/iamchroot) |
| 04:52.02 | twb | abhixec: depending how much stuff, you can run Debian Stable and then cherry-pick from backports, or you can run Debian testing or testing/unstable -- these are essentially "rolling releases" |
| 04:52.39 | JackFrost | alex11: Again, my first recommendation would simply be ~/.cache/sessions/, which would not later be restored. |
| 04:52.51 | alex11 | abhixec, window managers don't tend to get updated so you might want debian testing, usual caveats apply, don't run it on anything critical |
| 04:53.03 | alex11 | window managers don't tend to get backported * |
| 04:53.24 | alex11 | JackFrost, ok. let me try that. logging off hexchat so i can go back to tty |
| 04:54.26 | *** join/#debian alex11 (~alex@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-29-76-67-214-234.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:56.26 | alex11 | ok, removed .cache/sessions. restarting lightdm now |
| 04:57.30 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe (jotaxpe@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/jotaxpe) |
| 04:57.35 | alex11 | that alone seems to be fine, without the need to do anything else |
| 04:57.46 | *** join/#debian sofakingwetoddid (~sofakingw@2607:fb90:9998:31da:68b2:3d45:8f26:69b6) |
| 04:57.55 | *** join/#debian manopola (~manopola@gateway/tor-sasl/manopola) |
| 04:59.11 | alex11 | i... am going to assume it's fine and not touch anything else |
| 04:59.15 | alex11 | unless anyone has any objections |
| 04:59.18 | alex11 | thanks to both of you |
| 04:59.32 | alex11 | now to install *conky*, *not* compiz lmao |
| 04:59.44 | JackFrost | Hah. :D |
| 05:00.01 | alex11 | i could ask #xfce too but afaik what i did should be fine |
| 05:00.07 | alex11 | i can't think of a reason why it wouldn't be |
| 05:00.34 | alex11 | it should *only* be the cache |
| 05:00.45 | JackFrost | I mean, I can tell you the same thing there I did here, "Save Session" causes more problems than it solves. :P |
| 05:05.52 | *** join/#debian alex11 (~alex11@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-29-76-67-214-234.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:06.10 | *** join/#debian Posterdati (~posterdat@host-79-45-214-86.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 05:06.35 | *** join/#debian GreenRiot (~greenriot@unaffiliated/golemoffire) |
| 05:06.56 | *** join/#debian alex11 (~alex11@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-29-76-67-214-234.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:07.09 | *** join/#debian Anessen97_0 (~Anessen97@host-95-248-54-168.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 05:08.15 | alex11 | <computer expld> |
| 05:08.24 | *** join/#debian thatpythonguy (thatpython@gateway/vpn/mullvad/thatpythonguy) |
| 05:08.33 | *** join/#debian Dotz0cat (~Dotz0cat@h126.195.117.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 05:08.36 | alex11 | you know what's stupid |
| 05:08.42 | alex11 | and why i thought it was compiz |
| 05:08.52 | alex11 | because i knew there was 'compton' |
| 05:09.09 | alex11 | and i said to myself "no don't install that, you want the other one, that one is a compositor" |
| 05:09.16 | abhixec | Thanks twb alex11 so I can still have a mix of stable + rolling(i read it is sid correct) for the software that I want correct? |
| 05:09.25 | alex11 | except instead of conky my brain went to compiz |
| 05:09.39 | alex11 | no, you shouldn't mix stable with testing/sid |
| 05:09.45 | alex11 | ,v xmonad |
| 05:09.46 | judd | Package: xmonad on amd64 -- jessie: 0.11-9; stretch: 0.12-5+b1; buster: 0.14.2-3+b1; bullseye: 0.15-4+b1; sid: 0.15-4+b1 |
| 05:09.49 | *** join/#debian adapter (~adapter@2601:600:c500:2d0:145:bc00:86c6:532f) |
| 05:10.06 | alex11 | either go full testing or sid or use testing with some sid packages (look into apt pinning) |
| 05:10.15 | JackFrost | alex11: compton has a replacement now too, actually. |
| 05:10.19 | alex11 | and btw that only applies to xmonad, unless there's a repo for it |
| 05:10.30 | alex11 | you can get newer versions of vim and emacs without using debian testing/sid |
| 05:11.07 | alex11 | i forget what else you said you wanted/needed |
| 05:11.39 | *** join/#debian ghost43 (~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer) |
| 05:12.02 | *** join/#debian bitblit (~bitblit@gateway/tor-sasl/bitblit) |
| 05:12.25 | alex11 | frankly i love debian stable and don't see why anyone needs a new version of xmonad, but whatever |
| 05:12.33 | twb | abhixec: you can stable + cherry-pick from backports. Backports is not a full rolling release |
| 05:12.36 | alex11 | especially seeing as how it gets most of its power via configuration |
| 05:12.43 | twb | abhixec: it's just stuff that *someone* was angry enough to cherry-pick |
| 05:14.01 | twb | For example there is no backport of emacs at this time |
| 05:14.06 | alex11 | xmonad itself can probably even be compiled |
| 05:14.12 | alex11 | and you can use it yourself |
| 05:14.17 | alex11 | rather than upgrading an entire debian release |
| 05:14.23 | alex11 | but YMMV |
| 05:14.24 | *** join/#debian pclover (~pclover@unaffiliated/pclov3r) |
| 05:14.25 | twb | alex11: xmonad is indeed a weird fish since you configure it by recompiling |
| 05:14.42 | twb | alex11: but I don't know how neatly "just grab a random upstream" would integrate into Debian |
| 05:15.07 | alex11 | a lot of people who say 'i need a newer version of such and such' actually don't |
| 05:15.14 | pclover | this is probably covered in the wiki but i guess i can ask anyways. does apt-get have an option to exclude packages from being installed like it exists for yum on rpm based distros? |
| 05:15.19 | alex11 | but yeah, some people think testing is fine, so use it if you like |
| 05:15.21 | pclover | or something similar to it |
| 05:15.29 | alex11 | pclover, apt-mark hold, i think |
| 05:15.43 | alex11 | but dependencies exist for a good reason |
| 05:15.45 | JackFrost | pclover: apt install foo packageIHate- |
| 05:15.54 | alex11 | oh, really |
| 05:16.10 | *** join/#debian CombatVet (~c4@gateway/tor-sasl/combatvet) |
| 05:16.12 | *** join/#debian manopola (~manopola@gateway/tor-sasl/manopola) |
| 05:16.18 | twb | You can also do pinning but it's pretty user-unfriendly |
| 05:16.20 | JackFrost | This presumes it's only recommended. |
| 05:16.20 | alex11 | for some things you can apt install foo --no-install-recommends, but again, those generally exist for a reason |
| 05:16.32 | twb | e.g. apt-listbugs will write pins for you to prevent installing known-bad packages |
| 05:16.36 | JackFrost | There's that too, if you want none of the recommended packages. |
| 05:17.04 | pclover | i want to prevent package from being installed as there is something i want to build form source |
| 05:17.13 | pclover | but i don't want to be installable via apt-get after that :) |
| 05:17.16 | *** join/#debian fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 05:17.29 | pclover | tho, it's probably better to build a package instead |
| 05:17.51 | JackFrost | Yep, at least a dummy one that provides it. |
| 05:18.08 | alex11 | abhixec, i feel like you might be fine with debian testing; just keep backups and watch what the package manager tells you when installing/upgrading stuff |
| 05:18.31 | alex11 | don't run it on mission critical things - but that being said, it's debian, and 'in development' is as good as some other distro's 'stable' releases |
| 05:18.35 | pclover | unless there is a way to install specific packages from debian-testing but that seems like a bad idea |
| 05:19.17 | JackFrost | Via apt pinning, but with mixed results yeah. |
| 05:20.31 | *** join/#debian AliasNumber10 (~crix@cpe-76-167-192-248.san.res.rr.com) |
| 05:20.32 | alex11 | lol "xmonad is included in many distributions' package repositories" https://xmonad.org/download.html - "Debian (etch)" |
| 05:20.37 | alex11 | little behind, are we? |
| 05:21.23 | alex11 | so abhixec if you do want to try compiling your own xmonad on debian stable their site does give you compile instructions |
| 05:21.26 | alex11 | no idea how well it will work |
| 05:26.22 | abhixec | that is a good point I need to see if any of the modules that I use in config have dependency on latest xmonad/xmonad-contrib, yeah I agree I mean one of reasons I am looking at Debian is because I feel with Arch I am spending way too much time trying to get my laptop in a working state(with nvidia+ latest kernel messing up my ability to connect to external monitor) |
| 05:27.14 | alex11 | yeah i mean if you know for sure you need the newest xmonad it's one thing but if you're not sure you might be able to make do with stable's |
| 05:27.24 | alex11 | vim/emacs are more straightforward, you don't need testing/sid for that |
| 05:29.29 | alex11 | debian testing is fine, you just need to understand the limitations and not run too many critical things on it, because it's in development, packages can get removed, it gets security fixes slower than other releases |
| 05:30.31 | *** join/#debian mcole (~sdfsidjf@KD113148020047.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) |
| 05:30.55 | abhixec | is there a guide to installing debian + xmonad I see the media ships with xfce4 correct? |
| 05:31.54 | alex11 | if you want no desktop to start with, just unclick the desktops in the installer and then from the shell (when it finishes installing), apt install xorg xmonad and whatever else you want |
| 05:32.04 | alex11 | you can start it with either a display manager or startx |
| 05:33.40 | *** join/#debian sparky4 (~sparky4@hutcheson-099.resnet.latech.edu) |
| 05:34.26 | *** join/#debian alle_37 (~alle_37@81-224-193-202-no507.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 05:34.29 | alex11 | if you have an internet connection you can just use the netinst image, or the netinst with non-free firmware if you're on wifi or somethijng |
| 05:34.31 | alex11 | something |
| 05:34.42 | alex11 | to get your devices to work in the installer |
| 05:35.21 | twb | Note that "startx" is unlikely to place nice with systemd-logind |
| 05:35.45 | twb | xmonad and xfce will probably deal with it, but GNOME is likely to have a huge whinge |
| 05:36.06 | *** join/#debian earthundead (~earthunde@188.170.73.62) |
| 05:36.41 | alex11 | yeah well fuck gnome |
| 05:36.44 | *** join/#debian hadwin (~hadwin@120.239.172.158) |
| 05:37.11 | twb | abhixec: Debian ships big (ahead-of-time) and small (on-demand) install media. We also have Debian Live images for several desktops, including XFCE, but not xmonad. |
| 05:37.30 | twb | abhixec: you can install any of them any then add/change desktop or WM whenever you want |
| 05:37.42 | alex11 | yeah what twb said |
| 05:37.47 | alex11 | in a better way than i did |
| 05:38.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1136] by debhelper |
| 05:38.14 | twb | Because xmonad isn't a full desktop, you can't just choose it as the preferred desktop at install time |
| 05:38.27 | mcole | hello, quick question, has modprobe been removed from Debian completely? I want to shush my built-in laptop beeper but can't blacklist pcspkr via modprobe |
| 05:38.56 | twb | mcole: did you try "blacklist pcspkr" in /etc/modprobe.d/die-pckspr-die.conf ? |
| 05:38.56 | mcole | and when I search for it with apt, there are no results, neither in packages.debian.org |
| 05:39.19 | mcole | twb: nope, but that sounds like a good start |
| 05:39.24 | twb | mcole: the "kmod" package provides "modprobe" |
| 05:39.26 | abhixec | thanks twb,yeah I understand that. I want to run xmonad so I guesss I will get the small(on-demand) one and try installing! |
| 05:40.00 | twb | mcole: however you will likely run into two issues: 1. pcspkr might be compiled =y; and 2. "blacklist" doesn't do what you think, you generally need "install foo /bin/false" |
| 05:40.12 | mcole | twb: thanks, I was wondering where to find it. Which should be my preferred method, manually editing or running the command? |
| 05:40.31 | twb | mcole: also for pcspkr I vaguely recall that there's some other separate thing |
| 05:40.34 | tomreyn | https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=buster&arch=any&searchon=contents&keywords=%2Fsbin%2Fmodprobe |
| 05:40.57 | twb | mcole: did you already try "alsamixer" or (if you have pulseaudio) "alsamixer -c 1" |
| 05:42.04 | mcole | twb: I didn't, but just now, the only channel I have is Master |
| 05:42.12 | twb | mcole: that's the fake mixer pulseaudio makes |
| 05:42.19 | twb | it's alsa -> pulseaudio -> alsa -> hardware |
| 05:42.25 | twb | You want the alsa -> hardware mixer |
| 05:42.55 | twb | try -c 1 or 2 or 3 |
| 05:42.57 | mcole | ok, how do I select that? |
| 05:43.03 | twb | It'll be in /proc/asound/cards also |
| 05:43.12 | mcole | -c 1 says there is no such channel, let me check the rest |
| 05:43.25 | twb | mcole: hrm that's different from last time I fought that |
| 05:43.44 | twb | Ah this is what I do |
| 05:43.44 | mcole | alsamixer keeps saying there are no such channels |
| 05:43.46 | twb | "xset -b" |
| 05:43.58 | twb | That just disables it for the current GUI session |
| 05:44.55 | twb | mcole: just because I'm curious, please pastebin "cat /proc/asound/cards" and also "amixer scontrols -c0" through -cN |
| 05:45.20 | mcole | twb: let me check |
| 05:45.41 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.122.150) |
| 05:46.08 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@2407:7000:8d04:100:cc70:5514:3ee3:1d03) |
| 05:46.23 | mcole | https://termbin.com/bji2 --> this is /proc/asound/cards |
| 05:46.45 | twb | Aha OK so no pulseaudio |
| 05:47.13 | mcole | https://termbin.com/wkjg --> amixer scontrols -c0 |
| 05:47.24 | twb | mcole: OK |
| 05:47.28 | twb | mcole: so see "Beep" there? |
| 05:47.30 | *** join/#debian lpancescu (~laur@145.14.198.186) |
| 05:47.41 | twb | mcole: you should be able to do "amixer mute Beep" or so, and be done |
| 05:47.51 | twb | mcole: and systemd will automatically save & restore that across reboots |
| 05:48.36 | twb | (Not guaranteed to work on all hardware, but anything called Intel PCH... probably will work) |
| 05:48.42 | mcole | aaah that sounds good |
| 05:48.44 | mcole | let me see |
| 05:49.03 | mcole | amixer doesn't recognize "mute" |
| 05:49.19 | mcole | maybe set mute instead? |
| 05:49.35 | mcole | (according to the manpage at least) |
| 05:54.08 | twb | Sorry |
| 05:54.16 | twb | "amixer -q sset mute Beep" |
| 05:54.23 | twb | Argh |
| 05:54.28 | twb | "amixer -q sset Beep mute" |
| 05:55.09 | mcole | weird, either way it says it can't find the 'simple control' |
| 05:57.22 | *** join/#debian daregap (~belovent@cr-01.anx09.lju.si.anexia-it.com) |
| 05:59.05 | mcole | well, I'll take a look at this later, together with the manpage. Thanks twb! |
| 05:59.10 | mcole | peace up |
| 05:59.52 | twb | mcole: that's really weird |
| 06:00.29 | twb | mcole: it might need your user to be a member of "audio" group, per /dev/snd/* |
| 06:00.43 | twb | mcole: try "sudo amixer ..." as a simple test |
| 06:05.29 | *** join/#debian spork89 (~stephen@50-24-232-132.htvlcmta01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) |
| 06:24.24 | *** join/#debian kn0rki (~Kn0rki@dslb-092-072-166-059.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 06:25.22 | *** join/#debian zln (~zln@gateway/tor-sasl/zln) |
| 06:25.49 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000d682725ae111d5a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:25.51 | *** join/#debian nutron (~nutron@unaffiliated/nutron) |
| 06:27.31 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000d682725ae111d5a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:28.56 | *** join/#debian endstille (~endstille@94.31.96.159) |
| 06:29.26 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000d682725ae111d5a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:31.23 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000d682725ae111d5a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:33.03 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe (jotaxpe@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/jotaxpe) |
| 06:35.12 | *** join/#debian manopola (~manopola@gateway/tor-sasl/manopola) |
| 06:36.08 | *** join/#debian CombatVet (~c4@gateway/tor-sasl/combatvet) |
| 06:36.20 | *** join/#debian ghost43_ (~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer) |
| 06:36.32 | *** join/#debian darutoko (~darutoko@5.136.111.119) |
| 06:36.59 | *** join/#debian Anderson69s (~Thunderbi@74-132-190-109.isp.overthebox.ovh) |
| 06:37.05 | *** join/#debian Logg (~Logg@76.72.182.181) |
| 06:37.13 | *** join/#debian zln (~zln@gateway/tor-sasl/zln) |
| 06:37.17 | *** join/#debian bb-8_ (~bb-8@gateway/tor-sasl/bb-8) |
| 06:37.33 | *** join/#debian bitblit (~bitblit@gateway/tor-sasl/bitblit) |
| 06:38.42 | Logg | Wondering if any of you nerds know if there's a security risk in passing access to your X server over an SSH session? Could the remote server grab screen buffer contents even for things that it's not trying to render itself? |
| 06:39.08 | *** join/#debian black_ant (~antilope@unaffiliated/black-ant/x-1505394) |
| 06:40.20 | wigums | Logg YES ENABLING X FORWARDING THROUGH SSH IS A SECURITY RISK |
| 06:40.23 | wigums | oops |
| 06:40.33 | Logg | Lol, I appreciate the capslock |
| 06:41.00 | wigums | my bad. i have huge sausage fingers |
| 06:44.04 | *** join/#debian fredl (~fredl@smtp.3dn.nl) |
| 06:50.23 | *** join/#debian snegov (~quassel@176.106.253.254) |
| 06:53.42 | twb | Logg: X has essentially 0 internal security |
| 06:54.03 | twb | Logg: anything that can talk to the X server can read from any window, and also inject input into any window |
| 06:54.45 | twb | Logg: "ssh -X alice@example.com" will allow AT LEAST example.com's alice and root users to attack your X server |
| 06:55.40 | twb | wayland promises to improve on this, but so far I haven't seen a lot of hard evidence |
| 06:56.04 | twb | (And if fixes "ssh -X" by simply not implementing it) |
| 07:00.57 | JackFrost | twb: But it doesn't support Xfce, therefor Wayland is useless! :( |
| 07:01.12 | twb | As a real-world example, syndaemon is a keystroke logger |
| 07:01.25 | twb | It monitors all keyboard input in all windows |
| 07:01.33 | twb | citation: http://who-t.blogspot.com/2016/08/libinput-and-disable-while-typing.html |
| 07:01.45 | JackFrost | The useful side of this would be password managers with autotype. |
| 07:02.00 | *** join/#debian Rodon (~Rod@unaffiliated/regor) |
| 07:02.21 | *** join/#debian sparky4 (~sparky4@hutcheson-099.resnet.latech.edu) |
| 07:04.02 | *** join/#debian zln (~zln@gateway/tor-sasl/zln) |
| 07:04.04 | twb | certainly there is a security/convenience tradeoff :-) |
| 07:04.51 | twb | the whole CSD debacle in GTK3 is driven by wayland (reasonably) not implementing window reparenting |
| 07:06.00 | *** join/#debian TulaZula (TulaZula@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/tulazula) |
| 07:06.55 | *** join/#debian con_ (~con_@gateway/tor-sasl/con/x-20716450) |
| 07:07.46 | Rodon | what command (systemctl reboot) works for instant reboot ? |
| 07:08.05 | iamchroot | i thought reboot would do it |
| 07:08.25 | tomreyn | an instant reboot is a power cycle, i assume? |
| 07:09.23 | Rodon | "systemctl reboot" gives empty screen ..it takes much longer to reboot.. |
| 07:09.45 | Rodon | kind of freeze i see.. |
| 07:10.21 | JackFrost | twb: Yeah I don't like CSDs at *all*. :) |
| 07:10.39 | tomreyn | this suggests something is wrong about a systemd service you are running. would need to have a look at the logs or boot with verbose output to know whats the problem. |
| 07:11.09 | twb | Rodon: there are several reasons that might be |
| 07:11.19 | twb | Rodon: it SHOULD give up and reboot after 90 seconds |
| 07:11.50 | twb | Rodon: if that isn't happening, you can force a hard reboot with "reboot -f" or "reboot -ff". THIS WILL CAUSE DATA LOSS |
| 07:12.17 | JackFrost | So perhaps try and run 'sync' a few times first? |
| 07:12.29 | tomreyn | sysrq s + b |
| 07:12.30 | twb | Rodon: you can also usually use the "magic sysrq key" |
| 07:12.43 | twb | Which will also CAUSE DATA LOSS |
| 07:12.46 | twb | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_sysrq_key |
| 07:13.14 | Rodon | twb: thanks..it makes sense now.. |
| 07:13.34 | twb | Rodon: if this is happening every time, you probably want to work out which unit in systemd is causing the hang. This is a HUGE pain in the arse, because systemd shuts down most logging early in shutdown/reboot cycle :-( |
| 07:13.39 | tomreyn | oh and systemd services failing to shut down properly can also CAUSE DATA LOSS |
| 07:13.50 | twb | Rodon: the best option I found was to hook up the serial line to another computer |
| 07:14.32 | twb | tomreyn: it's a different class of failure, though. systemd hangs are purely in userland. "reboot -ff" will bypass low-level shit like parking the HDD heads |
| 07:14.57 | tomreyn | i see |
| 07:15.04 | Rodon | i want safe reboot.. |
| 07:15.14 | tomreyn | To get a more verbose log of the boot *and shutdown* process, remove "quiet" and "splash" from the kernel boot parameters and add "debug systemd.log_level=info". |
| 07:15.20 | twb | Rodon: oh one other thing you can try: if you type Ctrl+Alt+Del 7 times in 2 seconds, systemd will do a hard reboot |
| 07:15.37 | twb | tomreyn: ah yeah thanks I forgot those are on by default :- |
| 07:15.59 | tomreyn | that way you should not just get a black screen but get a better idea of where it's hanging |
| 07:16.05 | twb | Yep |
| 07:16.09 | twb | Good advice |
| 07:16.27 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 07:16.31 | twb | Also if plymouth is installed, you can hit Esc during shutdown and it'll re-print all the console text |
| 07:16.53 | twb | This is assuming the hang is early enough that the keyboard hasn't been disconnected &c |
| 07:17.43 | twb | There's a bunch of other Deep Magic tricks e.g. dracut initrd pivot_root during shutdown, but you don't want to think about that stuff if simpler options work |
| 07:18.58 | *** part/#debian hadwin (~hadwin@120.239.172.158) |
| 07:19.41 | *** join/#debian _Matth_ (~Matth@1.160.31.150.dy.iij4u.or.jp) |
| 07:20.43 | tomreyn | sudo systemd-analyze set-log-level debug to change the systemd log level during runtime. |
| 07:21.26 | tomreyn | that's for systemd >= v244 |
| 07:22.20 | tomreyn | (so buster-backports or testing/sid) |
| 07:23.31 | twb | neato |
| 07:23.36 | *** join/#debian HeXiLeD (~grumpy@gateway/tor-sasl/hexiled) |
| 07:23.47 | *** join/#debian szorfein (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 07:23.50 | twb | A bit stupid they put it in -analyze not ctl, but meh |
| 07:24.20 | tomreyn | i concur |
| 07:26.12 | *** join/#debian Jad (~Nashmi@92.241.51.238) |
| 07:26.20 | *** join/#debian szorfein (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 07:27.30 | *** join/#debian wobelinger (57803331@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:30.21 | *** join/#debian Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@195.24.53.110) |
| 07:31.26 | *** join/#debian luuuciano (~luuuciano@unaffiliated/luuuciano) |
| 07:33.03 | *** join/#debian iflema (~ian@unaffiliated/iflema) |
| 07:34.50 | *** join/#debian fourstepper (~fourstepp@static.49.156.119.168.clients.your-server.de) |
| 07:34.57 | *** join/#debian manopola (~manopola@gateway/tor-sasl/manopola) |
| 07:36.44 | *** join/#debian nevivurn` (~nevivurn@unaffiliated/nevivurn) |
| 07:37.25 | *** join/#debian nevivurn_ (~nevivurn@unaffiliated/nevivurn) |
| 07:38.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1144] by debhelper |
| 07:38.07 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 07:38.27 | twb | Also obligatory rant about "analyze" being etymologically WRONG |
| 07:38.50 | twb | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling |
| 07:41.14 | *** join/#debian snegov_ (~quassel@176.106.253.254) |
| 07:41.36 | *** join/#debian czesmir (~stefan@aeaf136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 07:45.45 | *** join/#debian martinus__ (~martin@217.57.202.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 07:48.15 | Haohmaru | ,v kicad |
| 07:48.16 | judd | Package: kicad on amd64 -- jessie: 0.20140622+bzr4027-3; stretch: 4.0.5+dfsg1-4; stretch-backports: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1; stretch-backports-sloppy: 5.1.6+dfsg1-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 5.1.8+dfsg1-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.1.8+dfsg1-1+b1; sid: 5.1.9+dfsg1-1 |
| 07:50.55 | *** join/#debian fourstepper (~fourstepp@static.49.156.119.168.clients.your-server.de) |
| 07:52.42 | *** join/#debian awal1 (~awal1@bras-base-mtrlpq0315w-grc-18-70-55-155-22.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:53.02 | *** join/#debian nevivurn (~nevivurn@unaffiliated/nevivurn) |
| 07:54.23 | *** join/#debian fourstepper (~fourstepp@static.49.156.119.168.clients.your-server.de) |
| 07:56.40 | *** join/#debian towo` (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 07:56.58 | *** join/#debian fourstepper (~fourstepp@static.49.156.119.168.clients.your-server.de) |
| 07:57.09 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 07:59.38 | *** join/#debian luckyxxl (~luckyxxl@193.27.14.158) |
| 08:00.36 | *** join/#debian __marco (~marco@195.218.6.205) |
| 08:00.43 | *** join/#debian fjavier (~fjavier@170.253.44.250) |
| 08:00.58 | *** join/#debian FishMonkey (~FemaleUse@178-175-130-20.static.as43289.net) |
| 08:01.11 | *** join/#debian fred1m (~quassel@2a01:e0a:8e:8b20:7f27:bb0d:81b2:ecb9) |
| 08:02.20 | FishMonkey | i have a bug to report |
| 08:03.26 | FishMonkey | xfce4-goodies metapackage points to xfce4-notes-plugin/xfce4-notes, which does not exist |
| 08:03.38 | FishMonkey | i want my notes plugin back plz |
| 08:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1150] by debhelper |
| 08:09.08 | JackFrost | For the time being it's removed, it may come back in time for bullseye but I'm not sure I'd count on that. |
| 08:12.02 | *** join/#debian thoros (~thoros@194-96-55-156.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 08:13.03 | *** join/#debian nevivurn (~nevivurn@unaffiliated/nevivurn) |
| 08:15.48 | FishMonkey | i can't go back to txt files |
| 08:16.18 | *** join/#debian visitorx (~visitorx@p200300c10717e80064f9049b2a3ac225.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:16.37 | *** join/#debian g0lden2 (5b848ae4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.91.132.138.228) |
| 08:16.45 | g0lden2 | hello can someone help set up internet on debian |
| 08:17.58 | *** join/#debian visitorx (~visitorx@p200300c10717e80064f9049b2a3ac225.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:18.20 | *** join/#debian g0lden2 (5b848ae4@unaffiliated/g0lden2) |
| 08:18.20 | *** join/#debian g0lden2 (5b848ae4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.91.132.138.228) |
| 08:19.08 | *** join/#debian visitorx (~visitorx@p200300c10717e80064f9049b2a3ac225.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:21.45 | *** join/#debian Texou (~Texou@unaffiliated/texou) |
| 08:25.44 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 08:25.53 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000d682725ae111d5a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:27.49 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000d682725ae111d5a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:30.58 | FishMonkey | thanks JackFrost. i made a panel icon of $mousepad .local/share/notes/Notes/Notes # that should keep me satisfied until it comes back, lol |
| 08:31.42 | *** join/#debian wytchmaster (~wytchmast@gateway.proxion.net) |
| 08:36.37 | *** part/#debian FishMonkey (~FemaleUse@178-175-130-20.static.as43289.net) |
| 08:41.30 | *** join/#debian tyzef (~tyzef@202.153.81.236) |
| 08:42.50 | *** join/#debian aaii (~aaii@unaffiliated/aaii) |
| 08:45.44 | *** join/#debian Ycarus (~Ycarus@2001:bc8:47b0:1b0b::1) |
| 08:46.46 | *** join/#debian ktmmrt (~manopola@gateway/tor-sasl/manopola) |
| 08:47.21 | *** join/#debian szorfein_ (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 08:48.16 | *** join/#debian con_ (~con_@gateway/tor-sasl/con/x-20716450) |
| 08:48.28 | *** join/#debian zln (~zln@gateway/tor-sasl/zln) |
| 08:48.41 | *** join/#debian longears (longears@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/longears) |
| 08:50.19 | *** join/#debian willcl_ark (~quassel@cpc123780-trow7-2-0-cust177.18-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 08:52.03 | *** join/#debian tagomago (~tagomago@80.224.152.21.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 08:53.58 | *** join/#debian HeXiLeD (~grumpy@gateway/tor-sasl/hexiled) |
| 08:54.50 | *** join/#debian e3d3 (~none@2a02-a450-1c17-1-c87e-2fcb-9b17-aa18.fixed6.kpn.net) |
| 08:55.08 | *** part/#debian e3d3 (~none@2a02-a450-1c17-1-c87e-2fcb-9b17-aa18.fixed6.kpn.net) |
| 08:55.49 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 08:57.01 | *** join/#debian snegov (~quassel@176.106.253.254) |
| 09:00.35 | *** join/#debian HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@82-197-210-209.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 09:00.54 | *** join/#debian zapatista (~zapatista@94.54.29.188) |
| 09:01.54 | *** join/#debian netcrash (~charmande@97.245.60.94.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 09:02.38 | *** join/#debian otisolsen70 (~otisolsen@xd4ed80b5.cust.hiper.dk) |
| 09:03.10 | *** join/#debian HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@82-197-210-209.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 09:04.45 | *** join/#debian zodd (~zodd@84-106-62-193.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 09:07.29 | *** join/#debian hendursa1 (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 09:07.41 | *** join/#debian Slashman (~Slash@cosium-fo-152-18.fib.nerim.net) |
| 09:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1158] by debhelper |
| 09:08.43 | *** join/#debian Trieste (~T@unaffiliated/trieste) |
| 09:15.11 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p549a9b06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:17.37 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p549a9b06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:18.24 | *** join/#debian dvp (~dvp@122.179.46.215) |
| 09:19.28 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 09:19.57 | *** join/#debian otisolsen70_ (~otisolsen@xd4ed80b5.cust.hiper.dk) |
| 09:24.31 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (~quassel@p200300e8e7044900b2a11fb5000338fb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:25.11 | *** join/#debian aps_ (~aps@2a02:908:df56:f8c0::6bfc) |
| 09:26.45 | *** join/#debian zapatista (~zapatista@94.54.29.188) |
| 09:27.29 | *** join/#debian GigaFlow (~GigaFlow@45.14.71.12) |
| 09:29.21 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:7170:ee0a:5118:af46) |
| 09:29.47 | *** join/#debian lithiumpt (~lithiumpt@217.138.203.176) |
| 09:29.58 | *** join/#debian w-oertl (~wolfgang@213.152.162.170) |
| 09:30.43 | *** join/#debian _Onyx47_ (~bojan@213.147.104.206) |
| 09:30.55 | *** join/#debian zapatista (~zapatista@94.54.29.188) |
| 09:34.56 | *** join/#debian xet7 (~xet7@esm-84-240-92-80.netplaza.fi) |
| 09:38.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1164] by debhelper |
| 09:38.10 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@93.116.130.26) |
| 09:38.57 | *** join/#debian unluckyshrubbery (~unluckysh@unaffiliated/unluckyshrubbery) |
| 09:39.07 | *** join/#debian soifou (~soifou@lfbn-lyo-1-17-90.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:39.59 | *** join/#debian tryte (~tryte@gateway/tor-sasl/tryte) |
| 09:42.10 | *** join/#debian n0am (~n0am@p200300ca3f068224ef75eac01ef594b5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:42.44 | *** join/#debian freebench__ (~freebench@92.253.250.131) |
| 09:44.07 | *** join/#debian Deknos (~deknos@unaffiliated/menace) |
| 09:45.45 | *** join/#debian a0z (~a0z@80-44-169-66.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1170] by debhelper |
| 09:48.14 | *** join/#debian lucad111 (~lucad111@linaro/lucad111) |
| 09:48.36 | *** join/#debian ottavio (~m0ttv@unaffiliated/m0ttv) |
| 09:49.51 | ottavio | Hi, I have an intermittent problem with my integrated webcam. Sometimes it is not recognized. |
| 09:50.19 | ottavio | Laptop is a Thinkpad e130 and system is Debian stretch, which I cannot update. |
| 09:50.50 | ottavio | $ dmesg|grep video > https://termbin.com/2c3o |
| 09:58.49 | *** join/#debian snegov_ (~quassel@176.106.253.254) |
| 09:59.22 | *** join/#debian stdsmtr (~stdsmtr@gateway/tor-sasl/stdsmtr) |
| 10:00.10 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@2407:7000:8d04:100:cc70:5514:3ee3:1d03) |
| 10:02.44 | *** join/#debian zamnedix (~zamnedix@zamnedix.net) |
| 10:02.58 | *** join/#debian lead_pipe23 (~Lead@38.146.84.50) |
| 10:04.42 | *** join/#debian clime (~clime@89-24-32-245.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) |
| 10:08.00 | jelly | ottavio, is that a true thinkpad with thinkpad_acpi kernel support? |
| 10:08.17 | ottavio | jelly: yes. |
| 10:08.37 | *** join/#debian szorfein_ (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 10:08.59 | ottavio | I even disabled tlp, but the webcam stops working a few minutes after booting. I have different kernels. I tried them all. |
| 10:09.22 | ottavio | 4.9.0-11-amd64 till 4.9.0-14-amd64. |
| 10:09.31 | *** join/#debian sevu (~sevu@x4db77c9d.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 10:09.38 | ottavio | I can't upgrade to stable for a number of reasons. |
| 10:11.41 | *** join/#debian Haudegen (~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at) |
| 10:14.35 | *** join/#debian Rog99 (~Rog99@45.56.142.143) |
| 10:17.53 | *** join/#debian Darcidride (~Darcidrid@195.144.48.173) |
| 10:18.09 | *** join/#debian jpe (~jp@fnord.cryptophone.de) |
| 10:20.36 | *** join/#debian gonzo (~gonzo@ip-213-49-177-184.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 10:23.48 | Darcidride | Hi guys, when running "sudo powertop" I don't have any issues, even "sudo powertop --auto-tune" is working without any issues, but when i'm trying to execute "sudo powertop2tuned -n -e laptop" it's not working and returned me "PowerTOP returned error code: -11" which is weird, i search a bit, but after a while i only find an unresolved issue from Fedora 31 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1744757 Do you guys have some knowledge on ome |
| 10:23.53 | Darcidride | things i can do to debug this issue ? (i don't even know what's this error -11 is :/) |
| 10:27.39 | *** join/#debian tsal (~tsal@i59F4DC6F.versanet.de) |
| 10:28.19 | *** join/#debian misternumberone (~misternum@cpe-67-11-25-201.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 10:29.47 | diogenes_ | DarkaMaul, what is powertop2tuned and where did you get it from? |
| 10:29.51 | diogenes_ | v, powertop2tuned |
| 10:30.15 | diogenes_ | v. powertop2tuned |
| 10:37.00 | misternumberone | hi, i'm restricted by driver limitations to a custom kernel based on 4.14.108. This seems to work fine in debian 10. however, i'd like to try software that's only for debian sid (https://www.hjdskes.nl/projects/cage/). Should the old kernel function if I dist-upgrade, or is there a better alternative for display server? (my computer is slow and I can try Weston 7.0, but it uses more resources) |
| 10:38.50 | Darcidride | diogenes_, Here are my used links : https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/20/html/Power_Management_Guide/sect-tuned-powertop2tuned.html https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/power_management_guide/tuned https://hobo.house/2015/12/18/linux-laptop-power-usage-tuning-with-powertop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3xedi7/linux_laptop_power_savingstuning_guide/ |
| 10:39.44 | Darcidride | misternumberone, is "apt preferences" an option to you ? ( + editing apt sources) |
| 10:40.28 | *** join/#debian shokohsc (~shokohsc@117.238.142.88.rev.sfr.net) |
| 10:40.37 | misternumberone | sure |
| 10:43.18 | *** join/#debian TheConjurer (~TheConjur@137.255.5.106) |
| 10:44.54 | misternumberone | however, the part where i thought "i can't use this software as things stand" is when i noticed it needs gcc 10. i'm pretty sure if i update that beyond what debian 10 comes with, many things may stop working, without full dist-upgrade |
| 10:44.57 | *** join/#debian rewrited (~rewrited@unaffiliated/rewrited) |
| 10:45.12 | Darcidride | misternumberone, theorically if you're using apps (stable for example), if should be tested and working accordingly to the stable kernel, so you should be able to use them, for more recent software, with an old kernel/drivers, i'm not sure it should work, it could, but i don't thing the maintainers are testing the software backward compaability with old kernel (maybe i'm wrong, correct me if it's the case) |
| 10:45.39 | Darcidride | it / think * |
| 10:49.29 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (~quassel@p200300e8e7044900b2a11fb5000338fb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#debian naitsabes (~naitsabes@unaffiliated/naitsabes) |
| 10:54.56 | *** join/#debian banox (~banox@82.102.27.217) |
| 10:55.52 | *** join/#debian mbrad (~mbrad@94.4.169.145) |
| 10:57.13 | *** join/#debian PEL0 (~PEL0@189.85.183.53) |
| 11:00.44 | *** join/#debian toli (~toli@77.109.112.4) |
| 11:01.58 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 11:02.37 | *** join/#debian amoe (~amoe@visarend.solasistim.net) |
| 11:02.42 | *** part/#debian amoe (~amoe@visarend.solasistim.net) |
| 11:02.44 | *** join/#debian tryte (~tryte@gateway/tor-sasl/tryte) |
| 11:07.33 | *** join/#debian cluelessperson (~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson) |
| 11:07.41 | *** join/#debian tryte (~tryte@gateway/tor-sasl/tryte) |
| 11:07.45 | *** join/#debian irenicus (~myoxo@eli.bitsex.net) |
| 11:09.29 | *** join/#debian kspalaiologos (~palaiolog@176.221.122.174) |
| 11:10.11 | *** join/#debian jpe (~jp@i5E86AE9E.versanet.de) |
| 11:11.07 | *** join/#debian dselect (~dselect@unaffiliated/themill/bot/dselect) |
| 11:11.11 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 11:20.55 | *** join/#debian brickfat (~brickfat@unaffiliated/brickfat) |
| 11:24.04 | *** join/#debian NetTerminalGene (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dontknow) |
| 11:28.22 | *** join/#debian jukebohi (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 11:28.40 | *** join/#debian JustASlacker (~JustASlac@dynamic-046-114-004-055.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 11:41.08 | *** join/#debian nifker (~Thunderbi@200116b80a05c5000a4b0596c682781c.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 11:45.15 | *** join/#debian wsky (uid453465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hogktmqhlqjomskv) |
| 11:49.38 | *** join/#debian jas4711 (~smuxi@31-208-42-58.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 11:52.54 | *** join/#debian renken (~renken@unaffiliated/renken) |
| 11:53.31 | *** join/#debian frgo (~frgo@p200300deef081300e94a2177cee9c70a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:56.25 | *** join/#debian cdown_ (~cdown@163.114.131.1) |
| 11:56.33 | *** join/#debian robobox (~chatzilla@199.180.167.234) |
| 11:57.21 | *** join/#debian naitsabes (~naitsabes@unaffiliated/naitsabes) |
| 11:57.46 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000375cb3d887e7f27a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:59.45 | *** join/#debian S3xyL1nux (~lindsay@222.234.230.95) |
| 11:59.49 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000375cb3d887e7f27a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:01.35 | jelly | what is the cleanest way to mount a sshfs on user login, user session systemd mount unit? |
| 12:05.37 | *** join/#debian metbsd (~metbsd@unaffiliated/metbsd) |
| 12:05.37 | *** join/#debian dpkg (~dpkg@unaffiliated/dpkg) |
| 12:06.42 | jelly | not yet, apparently https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/13741 |
| 12:07.25 | *** join/#debian shtrb (~shtrb@unaffiliated/shtrb) |
| 12:07.29 | *** join/#debian JustASlacker (~JustASlac@2a01:598:928b:f341:e92e:4092:3ad5:102) |
| 12:07.31 | *** join/#debian parity (~ash@unaffiliated/parity) |
| 12:08.33 | *** join/#debian rsx (~rsx@ppp-188-174-135-140.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 12:14.51 | *** join/#debian RadoS (~cheater@unaffiliated/radoq) |
| 12:15.57 | *** join/#debian chipps (~chipps@2409:4060:20b:a8b9:e89:190a:abe9:9988) |
| 12:17.32 | *** join/#debian chipps (~chipps@2409:4060:20b:a8b9:e89:190a:abe9:9988) |
| 12:18.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1177] by debhelper |
| 12:18.08 | RadoS | With i5-....U CPUs inten says it has 2 cores, 4 threads, with i5-....HQ CPUs it says 4 cores, 8 threads. Yet for both /proc/cpuinfo reports 4 cores, and in top for both 4 cpus are shown. What am I misunderstanding? |
| 12:18.15 | RadoS | inten -> intel |
| 12:18.23 | *** join/#debian thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 12:19.15 | RadoS | ... or missing |
| 12:19.30 | *** join/#debian chipps (~chipps@2409:4060:20b:a8b9:e89:190a:abe9:9988) |
| 12:20.00 | *** join/#debian Telcoguy (~quassel@2001:470:1f0b:3d5:1e2:60f3:d72b:5581) |
| 12:25.54 | ratrace | i5 are traditionally not HT. I think only latest gens (skylake onward or something liek that) are also HT. which one is yours? |
| 12:26.06 | ws2k3 | how can i increate the heap for zookeeper on debian? |
| 12:27.14 | rk4 | ws2k3: commonly that's a jvm commandline arg |
| 12:27.17 | *** join/#debian HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@82-197-210-209.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 12:27.34 | ws2k3 | rk4: yeah i know that. but im trying to find how where is should add it |
| 12:30.01 | jelly | ratrace, my i5-660 was HT. 2010. |
| 12:31.51 | jelly | RadoS, the machine with your i5-....HQ cpu might have HT disabled, what is the actual model, and can you pastebin complete /proc/cpuinfo |
| 12:33.22 | *** join/#debian ArlequInOut (~DaVinciCo@81-67-187-21.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 12:33.45 | *** join/#debian stdsmtr (~stdsmtr@gateway/tor-sasl/stdsmtr) |
| 12:36.00 | ratrace | well they're typically not ht |
| 12:36.46 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 12:37.12 | *** join/#debian fjavier (~fjavier@170.253.44.250) |
| 12:37.13 | *** join/#debian stdsmtr (~stdsmtr@gateway/tor-sasl/stdsmtr) |
| 12:38.34 | RadoS | jelly, ok, firing them up, can take a while to plug in... |
| 12:40.26 | *** join/#debian stdsmtr (~stdsmtr@gateway/tor-sasl/stdsmtr) |
| 12:43.39 | *** join/#debian dbristow (~dbristow@nylug/member/dbristow) |
| 12:47.01 | *** join/#debian Narcotion (~Narcotion@095-096-180-047.static.chello.nl) |
| 12:49.40 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:1c6:eef6:1d5:fcc0) |
| 12:50.39 | shtrb | Other than tlp what other power management elements tools might be loaded and could affect power state of ethernet devices (follow up on yesterday bug ) |
| 12:50.40 | shtrb | ? |
| 12:50.48 | *** join/#debian bolovanos (~bolovanos@host-213-235-140-105.ip.topnet.cz) |
| 12:52.24 | *** join/#debian kriger (~norge@unaffiliated/kriger) |
| 12:52.38 | *** join/#debian gavlee (~gav@unaffiliated/gavlee) |
| 12:52.43 | *** join/#debian debsan (~debsan@unaffiliated/debsan) |
| 12:57.08 | *** join/#debian Grldfrdom (uid391113@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kitsjagmmfusypqz) |
| 12:58.20 | *** join/#debian towo` (~towo@unaffiliated/towo/x-4064351) |
| 13:02.13 | *** join/#debian fflori (~fflori@host-82-48-232-235.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:02.15 | *** join/#debian Scotty_Trees (~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:03.08 | *** join/#debian Witch-King (~Witch-Kin@host-79-26-157-182.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:03.59 | *** join/#debian LionOpeter (~liron@bzq-79-183-79-83.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 13:06.40 | *** join/#debian JustASlacker (~JustASlac@2a01:598:928b:f341:e92e:4092:3ad5:102) |
| 13:08.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1185] by debhelper |
| 13:08.58 | *** join/#debian kn0rki (~Kn0rki@dslb-092-072-166-059.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 13:12.09 | *** join/#debian lazr47 (~lazr47@69-58-32-213.kresanet.org) |
| 13:12.26 | RadoS | jelly, https://paste.debian.net/./1179647/, https://paste.debian.net/./1179648/ |
| 13:14.00 | RadoS | jelly, I correct myself: it says processor 0-3 for both, but core-ids are different. Yet, still, why does it appear "same" in "top"? |
| 13:14.59 | RadoS | Shouldn't the HQ somehow provide "more visible cpu resources" to the system? |
| 13:22.07 | *** join/#debian aidanpr (~aidanpr@205.185.113.93) |
| 13:22.10 | *** join/#debian sbraz (~sbraz@gentoo/developer/sbraz) |
| 13:24.39 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-234-234.play-internet.pl) |
| 13:28.07 | *** join/#debian cyr4x3 (~cyr4x3@139.47.121.51) |
| 13:28.48 | Mister00X | RadoS: what does inxi -Cx say? |
| 13:28.49 | Hrym | RadoS: The i5-6440HQ does not have hyperthreading, https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88962/intel-core-i5-6440hq-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-50-ghz.html |
| 13:29.09 | *** join/#debian konrados (~konrados@unaffiliated/konrados) |
| 13:30.12 | *** join/#debian BenDover (~Thunderbi@balticom-215-175.balticom.lv) |
| 13:33.21 | RadoS | Hrym, right, didn't notice that. |
| 13:34.19 | *** join/#debian radkos (~radkos@213.91.182.188) |
| 13:34.46 | RadoS | Hmm, so I don't understand enough about CPU specifications, but when the intro to both CPUs says 2 core 4 threads, the other 4 core 8 threads, this doesn't automatically convert to double cpu power?! |
| 13:36.27 | RadoS | So if a cpu has 4 cores, 8 threads + hyperthreading, then it would show as 8 processors in cpuinfo? |
| 13:36.48 | *** join/#debian chalcedny` (~chalcedon@unaffiliated/chalcedony) |
| 13:37.34 | Mister00X | RadoS: In the specs Hrym put into the channel there is clearly written about 4 cores and 4 threads |
| 13:37.43 | towo` | RadoS, 4 cores, 8 threads is hyperthreading |
| 13:37.53 | towo` | not 4 cores, 8 threads + hyperthreading |
| 13:38.05 | RadoS | Mister00X, my bad, you are correct, I misremembered for other i7-6700hq. |
| 13:38.05 | *** join/#debian tyzef (~tyzef@202.153.80.50) |
| 13:38.12 | *** join/#debian ddsys (~ddsys@unaffiliated/ddsys) |
| 13:39.03 | RadoS | Ok, clearer now, so the # threads == processing units, with or without hyper-threading. |
| 13:39.33 | RadoS | What's more desirable then, 2 core with hyper or 4 without? |
| 13:40.23 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000c9edc59637145d26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:41.42 | jelly | RadoS, desirable for what? If you want less power use, less cores is probably better. If you have highly parallelizable load, more cores is better |
| 13:42.07 | shtrb | (*) Assuming your software actually use all of them properly |
| 13:42.17 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000c9edc59637145d26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:42.26 | jelly | if it doesn't it's not parallelizable :-) |
| 13:43.13 | shtrb | But I have an i7 ! the software must run very fast on it!!! |
| 13:44.04 | *** join/#debian SHADOWSaaaA (~jessie@240e:379:5f09:b300:66f1:a8f6:2b02:5307) |
| 13:44.07 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-234-234.play-internet.pl) |
| 13:44.14 | *** join/#debian Fox (~fox@unaffiliated/fox) |
| 13:44.18 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000c9edc59637145d26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:44.30 | *** join/#debian Adam14 (~Adam@31.0.85.63) |
| 13:44.56 | jelly | shtrb, yeah, I just had a reference where someone's i7 worked slower than my i5 on an otherwise identical laptop model |
| 13:45.37 | jelly | because i7 can heat up quicker and TDP is set to same 15W on all the models apparently |
| 13:45.52 | jelly | so sometimes more cores is _worse_ |
| 13:46.22 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000c9edc59637145d26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:47.02 | *** join/#debian genr8_ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) |
| 13:47.13 | jelly | that was i5-8365U vs i7-8665U, both inside a Thinkpad X1 Carbon 7th Gen |
| 13:47.46 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:1fb3:ef3f:ece2:c6f8) |
| 13:48.18 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000c9edc59637145d26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:48.37 | RadoS | jelly, processing power (for virtualization or high-end games). But if in the end only the total thread number makes a/ no difference, then core # doesn't matter either (except for power consumption). |
| 13:49.45 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-234-234.play-internet.pl) |
| 13:50.12 | *** join/#debian brickfat (~brickfat@unaffiliated/brickfat) |
| 13:50.17 | *** join/#debian Jerrynicki (~niklas@p200300f577012000c9edc59637145d26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:51.35 | jelly | RadoS, assuming thermals are configured properly, unlike these Thinkpads, then more cores is better. SMT (HT) is a hack that never gives you as much processing power as full cores |
| 13:51.42 | RadoS | Hmm, maybe for virtualization cores/threads does make difference? |
| 13:51.48 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-234-234.play-internet.pl) |
| 13:52.55 | jelly | VMware assumes a 30% reduction of performance when you disable HT |
| 13:53.14 | RadoS | ... or have none to begin with?! |
| 13:53.37 | jelly | and as a rough figure, on modern cpus, that seems maybe realistic |
| 13:54.11 | jelly | (it really depends on the particular CPU and workload) |
| 13:56.03 | *** join/#debian james1138 (47240d3d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.71.36.13.61) |
| 13:56.30 | *** join/#debian hendursaga (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 13:56.48 | *** join/#debian Brigo (~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com) |
| 14:00.46 | *** join/#debian Pjusur (~Pjusur@81.191.203.249) |
| 14:02.50 | *** join/#debian steven_saus (~steven_sa@cpe-74-131-36-220.kya.res.rr.com) |
| 14:03.53 | *** join/#debian chipps (~chipps@2409:4060:20b:a8b9:e89:190a:abe9:9988) |
| 14:08.10 | *** join/#debian xet7 (~xet7@esm-84-240-92-80.netplaza.fi) |
| 14:09.56 | shtrb | jelly, wait wait , that could be close to my issue with power management with Ethernet ports, is there a chance that it could trigger Wifi (the dreaded I219-V kernel issue from 4.18 and up) |
| 14:10.19 | shtrb | sorry not wifi but ethernet card going into power save mode or something like that |
| 14:10.27 | *** join/#debian invernomut0 (~fabio@151.34.190.225) |
| 14:10.28 | *** join/#debian Casper26 (~Casper26@2001:470:8:2d3:ff:ff:ff:ff) |
| 14:11.15 | jelly | shtrb, no idea, is it a laptop? |
| 14:12.10 | shtrb | yes , Thinkpad , a known firmware/driver bug where the I219-V when using e1000e would go to a non responsive state (the workaround is to either boot into windows or disable power mangment ) |
| 14:19.08 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 14:23.00 | *** join/#debian tgunr (~davec@dsl-dhcp-conrtxxahre-72-26-20-133.consolidated.net) |
| 14:23.30 | *** join/#debian ChmEarl (~chmearl@unaffiliated/prymar56) |
| 14:24.31 | *** join/#debian civillian (~nick@124-148-119-56.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:25.13 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:c13b:8b6f:41ee:d98b) |
| 14:25.25 | *** join/#debian mathsaey (mathsaey@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mathsaey) |
| 14:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1191] by debhelper |
| 14:28.12 | jelly | shtrb, ouch, can you upgrade firmware on that intel card? |
| 14:28.26 | *** join/#debian Elirips (~Elirips@242.109.22.178.ftth.as8758.net) |
| 14:33.18 | *** join/#debian sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@unaffiliated/sweatsuit) |
| 14:35.09 | shtrb | jelly, not that I'm aware of , there are claims it might be solved via a kernel upgrade at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1785171 said that 5.8 fixed that for them ,but I tried a 5.9 and the issue still exist for me ) |
| 14:35.21 | shtrb | at least that is for Ethernet card and not wifi :) |
| 14:35.48 | *** join/#debian alpernebbi (~quassel@178.233.176.159) |
| 14:36.36 | *** join/#debian JohnML (~john1@ip-178-202-6-56.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 14:36.41 | jelly | my laptop doesn't even have a physical eth port, I need some docking thing to expose it |
| 14:37.20 | jelly | there's a really weird port with a "network" icon next to it |
| 14:37.40 | shtrb | let us move it to #d-o |
| 14:43.26 | *** join/#debian shabius (~shabius@2a0e:1c80:2:1023::1000) |
| 14:45.14 | *** join/#debian macc24_ (~macc24@unaffiliated/maccraft) |
| 14:46.00 | *** join/#debian cybiko123 (~cybiko123@2600:4040:113a:a600:8bdc:d07:7475:5ee1) |
| 14:46.07 | *** join/#debian bigjazzsound (~craig.fie@75-60-207-113.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:47.09 | *** join/#debian epony (epony@unaffiliated/epony) |
| 14:47.13 | *** join/#debian wsky (uid453465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aloxrzieldraaxoz) |
| 14:47.22 | *** join/#debian chipps (~chipps@2409:4060:20b:a8b9:e89:190a:abe9:9988) |
| 14:47.26 | *** join/#debian gangstacat (~gangstaca@unaffiliated/gangstacat) |
| 14:47.31 | *** join/#debian lvrp16 (sid153650@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwalqhzccfbfwjov) |
| 14:47.51 | *** join/#debian scc (~scc@2a01:4f8:1c17:67c7::42) |
| 14:48.49 | *** join/#debian stree (~stree@50-108-115-238.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) |
| 14:49.56 | *** join/#debian chris (~chris@2a01:4b00:85f4:7d00:e86:9d3a:3140:1dba) |
| 14:52.19 | *** join/#debian huma (~huma@182.232.223.145) |
| 14:56.17 | *** join/#debian Steeve (~steve@unaffiliated/steeve) |
| 14:56.19 | huma | how come debian can not fix the silly bug in curl 7.64.0 more than a year later? :) https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=941328 |
| 14:56.20 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/941328 in curl (open): «[curl] A lot of new puzzling and seemingly useless output in "verbose"»; severity: normal; opened: 2019-09-28; last modified: 2019-11-14. |
| 14:58.59 | *** join/#debian shinobi (~shinobi@c-24-147-48-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:59.20 | jelly | huma, in general Debian does not fix cosmetic issues in versions of packages present in the stable release |
| 14:59.47 | jelly | ,v curl |
| 14:59.48 | judd | Package: curl on amd64 -- jessie: 7.38.0-4+deb8u11; jessie-security: 7.38.0-4+deb8u16; stretch: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; stretch-proposed-updates: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; stretch-security: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; buster: 7.64.0-4+deb10u1; buster-security: 7.64.0-4+deb10u1; bullseye: 7.72.0-1; sid: 7.74.0-1 |
| 15:01.05 | jelly | huma, only fixes for serious errors and security issues get applied |
| 15:02.07 | jelly | huma, if you're willing, you can check whether the problem is still present in the version in bullseye, the testing branch, if it's still there it's worth poking the maintainers again so it gets fixed for Debian 11 |
| 15:02.46 | *** join/#debian Shadur (rhoubenvac@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pigkwuddhdudgsao) |
| 15:03.09 | huma | jelly: it's fixed in 7.64.1 :) |
| 15:03.28 | huma | maybe it's a way to shame curl devs :) |
| 15:03.48 | *** join/#debian Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@195.24.53.110) |
| 15:04.59 | jelly | so it's going to be okay in bullseye, probably |
| 15:08.54 | shtrb | huma, instead of shaming them you can make a nicely made spotted seabass with olive oil to devs as a bribe to fix stuff better |
| 15:11.52 | *** join/#debian teclo- (42@unaffiliated/teclo) |
| 15:12.04 | *** join/#debian GhostInTheShell (~melkor@chaosgate.angband.eu) |
| 15:13.35 | *** join/#debian Newami (~Newami@ip70-179-45-125.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 15:14.17 | *** join/#debian szorfein_ (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 15:14.26 | *** join/#debian bf_ (~bf@92.42.187.74) |
| 15:17.07 | *** join/#debian powerhouse (~powerhous@184.69.151.38) |
| 15:17.32 | huma | shtrb: they fixed it way back in feb 2019, so they're good: https://github.com/curl/curl/commit/aabc7ae |
| 15:18.57 | *** join/#debian shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) |
| 15:20.25 | *** join/#debian greycat (~greg@209.142.155.49) |
| 15:20.26 | *** join/#debian eventhorizon5 (~smuxi@047-227-214-021.res.spectrum.com) |
| 15:21.59 | shtrb | huma, DD would be also happy to get a nicly made spotted seabass or maybe a steamy bowl with Lechazo |
| 15:22.32 | shtrb | huma, bakshish does wonders to advance bug fixes |
| 15:23.34 | *** join/#debian Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@unaffiliated/spr1ng) |
| 15:27.46 | *** join/#debian maggotbrain (~maggotbra@c-73-254-248-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 15:30.49 | *** join/#debian chris (~chris@89.36.65.254) |
| 15:38.13 | *** join/#debian Alessandro-B (~androirc@37.179.220.143) |
| 15:38.20 | *** join/#debian stdsmtr (~stdsmtr@gateway/tor-sasl/stdsmtr) |
| 15:40.45 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:dc3e:b430:ab76:cfaf) |
| 15:42.12 | *** join/#debian pixalot (pixalot@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/pixalot) |
| 15:42.20 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:dc3e:b430:ab76:cfaf) |
| 15:44.56 | *** join/#debian barley3066 (~barley306@2804:7f3:58a:ccfd:bd4f:9e70:33d2:d6dc) |
| 15:46.19 | *** join/#debian AJ_Z0 (~AJ_Z0@pdpc/supporter/professional/ajz0) |
| 15:47.18 | *** join/#debian HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@82-197-210-209.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 15:47.43 | *** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@188.208.121.237) |
| 15:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1198] by debhelper |
| 15:49.08 | *** join/#debian JustASlacker (~JustASlac@2a01:598:928b:f341:e92e:4092:3ad5:102) |
| 15:49.24 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe (jotaxpe@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/jotaxpe) |
| 15:50.13 | *** join/#debian jukebohi (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 15:58.21 | *** join/#debian graytron (~tero@unaffiliated/graytron) |
| 16:00.42 | *** join/#debian jotaxpe_ (jotaxpe@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/jotaxpe) |
| 16:00.47 | *** join/#debian akp55_ (~akp55@c-73-148-15-158.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 16:00.54 | *** join/#debian RedSnarf (bd3e9c93@unaffiliated/redsnarf) |
| 16:01.51 | *** join/#debian nitefall (~thewellin@207.108.217.209) |
| 16:02.23 | *** join/#debian isostatic (uid224824@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zsaoqtxtbhuccnom) |
| 16:02.29 | *** join/#debian wobelinger (57803331@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:04.53 | *** join/#debian XsiSec (~xsisec@h-155-4-128-107.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 16:07.46 | *** join/#debian radkos (~radkos@213.91.182.188) |
| 16:10.07 | *** join/#debian repulse (~soltrin@user174.c5.hrastnik.kabelnet.net) |
| 16:12.31 | *** join/#debian hbautista (~hbautista@187.171.117.87) |
| 16:13.24 | *** join/#debian sdoubleyou (~sdoubleyo@unaffiliated/sdouble25) |
| 16:13.36 | *** join/#debian rgdgnfnfgh (~lindsay@222.234.230.95) |
| 16:13.55 | *** join/#debian gangstacat (~gangstaca@unaffiliated/gangstacat) |
| 16:14.41 | *** join/#debian panzeroceania (sid16210@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ilbkybryvqxnkyxe) |
| 16:16.10 | *** join/#debian ttfk (~ttill@5cf3ff07.rev.dansknet.dk) |
| 16:20.56 | *** join/#debian Ekis (~Ekis@cpe74da881c916d-cm30b7d4bb2eb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:21.03 | *** join/#debian onejukeboksi (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 16:22.18 | *** join/#debian _Matth_ (~Matth@1.160.31.150.dy.iij4u.or.jp) |
| 16:22.45 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 16:23.39 | *** join/#debian BrianG61UK__ (~BrianG61U@2a02:8010:66b7:dddd:5982:af47:9632:5d4a) |
| 16:27.33 | *** join/#debian xsisec_ (~xsisec@h-155-4-128-107.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 16:28.26 | *** join/#debian amcollie__ (~alexandro@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531) |
| 16:28.45 | *** join/#debian onejukeboksi (~noname@wikipedia/jukeboksi) |
| 16:29.16 | *** join/#debian soifou (~soifou@2a01:cb14:18f:4900:11c3:c565:22b4:c05d) |
| 16:32.34 | *** join/#debian nt1036 (~nt1036@2603-8000-6f01-94b7-9808-1a70-51c0-28f7.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 16:36.45 | *** join/#debian mspe (mspe@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-aloqdkrtuqcdbbpm) |
| 16:37.55 | *** join/#debian lead_pipe23 (~Lead@38.146.84.50) |
| 16:38.04 | *** join/#debian _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 16:39.00 | *** join/#debian gelignite (~gelignite@55d44be3.access.ecotel.net) |
| 16:42.33 | *** join/#debian Adbray (~Adbray@2600:6c48:6f7f:d764:721c:2f1a:8cfa:251f) |
| 16:43.28 | *** join/#debian raver (f98f5ce56e@2a02:908:522:3620::1) |
| 16:46.49 | *** join/#debian diniwed (~gavron@ool-44c21938.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 16:47.06 | *** join/#debian TReK (~UnFaQ@unaffiliated/trek) |
| 16:48.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1204] by debhelper |
| 16:50.53 | *** join/#debian brickfat (~brickfat@unaffiliated/brickfat) |
| 16:51.54 | *** join/#debian zalt (~devp@unaffiliated/lambda443) |
| 16:52.53 | *** join/#debian hanasaki (~hanasaki@pool-71-179-12-157.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:55.08 | *** join/#debian Nokaji (~Nokaji@unaffiliated/nokaji) |
| 16:56.00 | *** join/#debian PaddyF_ (~PaddyF@p200300def704cdb406d9f5fffe83e48d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:05.36 | *** join/#debian clime (~clime@89-24-32-245.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) |
| 17:05.41 | *** join/#debian james1138 (47240d3d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.71.36.13.61) |
| 17:08.53 | *** join/#debian slowly_stuck (48336855@unaffiliated/slowly-stuck/x-8119012) |
| 17:09.42 | cluelessperson | there seem to be two directories with the same name... |
| 17:09.53 | cluelessperson | not sure how to pick a certain one |
| 17:10.54 | slowly_stuck | How do I create a virtual network interface that's not connected to any physical interface? (Apparently just defining it in /etc/network/interfaces doesn't work - ifup can't find the interface) |
| 17:11.53 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 17:12.34 | *** join/#debian nick_of-martin (~Thunderbi@89.111.94.165) |
| 17:13.45 | *** join/#debian nebunez (~user@c-73-171-175-205.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 17:15.19 | gnat_x | slowly_stuck: how are you defining it? |
| 17:18.52 | slowly_stuck | gnat_x: by putting a simple entry into interfaces - https://paste.debian.net/1179688/ |
| 17:20.45 | cluelessperson | slowly_stuck, dummy interface? |
| 17:20.52 | cluelessperson | https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2018/10/22/introduction-to-linux-interfaces-for-virtual-networking/ |
| 17:21.31 | *** join/#debian geowiesnot (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 17:23.05 | shtrb | cluelessperson, show us ls outout |
| 17:24.23 | gnat_x | slowly_stuck: try attaching it to the actual eth0, (auto eth9:1) |
| 17:24.44 | gnat_x | or whatever your network device is. |
| 17:25.29 | *** join/#debian darunesh (~darunesh@122.170.110.31) |
| 17:27.05 | *** join/#debian neilthereildeil (47a35ec3@unaffiliated/neilthereildeil) |
| 17:27.13 | slowly_stuck | interesting, cluelessperson! I think a dummy isn't exactly right, since I'm next going to add it to a bridge (and use it to communicate with VMs that will also be on the bridge). gnat_x: is it reasonable to attach to an actual interface, but use a totally different network config? |
| 17:27.15 | neilthereildeil | whats the latest kernel shipping in debian 10? |
| 17:27.15 | *** join/#debian The_Loko (~The_Loko@188.26.204.187) |
| 17:27.35 | Mister00X | ,v kernel |
| 17:27.36 | judd | No package named 'kernel' was found in amd64. |
| 17:27.48 | greycat | ,kernels |
| 17:27.49 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-1-686 (5.10.4-1); bullseye: 5.9.0-5-686 (5.9.15-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.9.6-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-13-686-pae (4.19.160-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 17:27.50 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 17:27.58 | Mister00X | greycat: thanks |
| 17:29.17 | neilthereildeil | hmm i think this is saying debian 10's latest supported kernel is 4.19.0. How do i have 5.9.6-1~bpo10+1? |
| 17:29.25 | neilthereildeil | im running debian 10 |
| 17:29.56 | greycat | You're using a backports kernel. "bpo" = backports.org or something like that. |
| 17:29.59 | neilthereildeil | im not sure. i might have pinned the kernel to that version, but my wifi isnt working correctly so i wanted to see if upgrading will help |
| 17:30.04 | *** join/#debian Brigo (~Brigo@40.181.60.213.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com) |
| 17:30.05 | neilthereildeil | ahh ok |
| 17:30.27 | neilthereildeil | so that means im using a backported kernel from a newer version of debian into debian 10? |
| 17:30.42 | neilthereildeil | and that i cant get a newer kernel on here? |
| 17:31.07 | greycat | You can run any kernel you want. |
| 17:31.27 | neilthereildeil | well, i mean a kernel that ships with debian |
| 17:31.37 | greycat | Debian 10 ships with a 4.19.x kernel. |
| 17:32.33 | neilthereildeil | k thx |
| 17:33.09 | gnat_x | slowly_stuck: so you want a virtual bridge? |
| 17:34.41 | *** join/#debian emOne (~emOne@unaffiliated/emone) |
| 17:34.55 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:437:796:3201:e5ab) |
| 17:35.22 | gnat_x | slowly_stuck: make sure you have bridge-utils installed. and define it like this: https://paste.debian.net/1179690/ |
| 17:42.18 | *** join/#debian mortderire (~mortderir@192.198.151.43) |
| 17:46.18 | *** join/#debian mi11k1 (~mi11k1@d216-121-129-97.home3.cgocable.net) |
| 17:51.12 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 17:52.35 | *** join/#debian fachinformatiker (~fachinfor@fsf/member/fachinformatiker) |
| 17:56.50 | slowly_stuck | gnat_x: that ended up being exactly what I needed - thank you! |
| 17:57.24 | gnat_x | slowly_stuck: figured it might work... that's what i use for that purpose. |
| 18:00.41 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-234-234.play-internet.pl) |
| 18:03.10 | *** join/#debian kriskropd (~kriskropd@unaffiliated/kriskropd) |
| 18:04.39 | *** join/#debian Mister00X (~quassel@pc19f47e3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:05.35 | *** join/#debian pergaminho (~Cleber@189.26.121.248) |
| 18:07.46 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 18:08.28 | *** join/#debian JohnML (~john1@ip-178-202-6-56.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 18:11.33 | *** join/#debian Jantz (~IceChat9@118-93-134-122.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) |
| 18:13.38 | *** join/#debian JohnML (~john1@ip-178-202-6-56.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 18:20.24 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 18:21.57 | *** join/#debian aligator (~aligator@160.178.30.115) |
| 18:23.37 | *** join/#debian shabius (~shabius@2a0e:1c80:2:1023::1000) |
| 18:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1198] by debhelper |
| 18:39.09 | *** join/#debian Ekis (~Ekis@cpe74da881c916d-cm30b7d4bb2eb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:39.23 | *** join/#debian geowiesnot (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 18:45.28 | *** join/#debian dumb_bot (~dumb_bot@50-78-106-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:45.44 | dumb_bot | How can I tell from the terminal what my current Linux kernel version is/ |
| 18:45.45 | dumb_bot | ? |
| 18:45.51 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:1fb3:ef3f:ece2:c6f8) |
| 18:46.01 | *** join/#debian Tom01 (~tom@a89-183-114-114.net-htp.de) |
| 18:46.34 | towo` | dumb_bot, uname -a |
| 18:46.50 | dumb_bot | towo`: Thanks |
| 18:47.24 | *** join/#debian Onyx47_ (~onyx@89-201-148-175.dsl.optinet.hr) |
| 18:47.50 | *** join/#debian FnorZ (~FnorZ@unaffiliated/fnorz) |
| 18:48.15 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-234-234.play-internet.pl) |
| 18:48.21 | *** join/#debian zutat (02f49dba@unaffiliated/zutat) |
| 18:48.57 | *** join/#debian n4dir (~n4dir@88.130.152.8) |
| 18:55.33 | *** join/#debian Lord_of_Life (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) |
| 19:01.01 | *** join/#debian solomomi (4fb5cea8@bzq-79-181-206-168.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 19:01.34 | solomomi | hey, I'm trying to upgrade to bullseye but get: |
| 19:01.36 | solomomi | "E: The repository 'https://download.docker.com/linux/debian bullseye Release' does not have a Release file." |
| 19:01.46 | solomomi | when running apt-get update |
| 19:01.59 | solomomi | my sourcel ist looks like: |
| 19:02.21 | ratrace | bullseye is not even released yet |
| 19:02.50 | *** join/#debian con_ (~con_@gateway/tor-sasl/con/x-20716450) |
| 19:02.56 | ratrace | so random third party repos may or may not support it right now. you should contact them for clarification |
| 19:03.05 | solomomi | deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye maindeb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates maindeb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ bullseye-security maindeb [arch=amd64] https://download.docker.com/linux/debian bullseye stable # deb-src [arch=amd64] https://download.docker.com/linux/debian bullseye stabledeb |
| 19:03.06 | solomomi | http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports main# deb-src [arch=amd64] https://download.docker.com/linux/debian bullseye stable |
| 19:03.17 | ratrace | please use a proper: |
| 19:03.19 | ratrace | !pastebin |
| 19:03.19 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: https://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: https://imgbb.com/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): https://filebin.net or https://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <termbin>. |
| 19:03.38 | solomomi | thanks |
| 19:03.39 | solomomi | https://paste.debian.net/1179704/ |
| 19:04.35 | greycat | Did you blindly change every "buster" to "bullseye" including third-party repos without actually CHECKING whether the third-party repo has a bullseye section? |
| 19:05.07 | ratrace | solomomi: first of all, bullseye-backports and bullseye-security do not exist yet. second, you should check docker docs if and how they provide repos for Bullseye |
| 19:05.40 | solomomi | retrace, I thought the docker are commented, isn't it? |
| 19:05.53 | ratrace | line 4 is not |
| 19:06.05 | solomomi | greycat, yes :shy: |
| 19:06.26 | solomomi | how can I check this? |
| 19:06.34 | ratrace | check _what_? |
| 19:06.37 | solomomi | oh I see |
| 19:06.46 | greycat | go to the web site |
| 19:06.49 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 19:08.21 | solomomi | greycat, what website? docker or debian one? |
| 19:09.01 | jelly | in general, release upgrade processes strongly suggest (at least temporarily) removing third party repos |
| 19:09.29 | jelly | debian is the first party for, well, debian |
| 19:09.47 | greycat | solomomi: the web site of the third-party repo that you are trying to use. |
| 19:10.36 | solomomi | got you! thanks! |
| 19:11.35 | solomomi | Can I know what packages are currently use this source? |
| 19:11.44 | solomomi | probably docker ofcourse but I'm curious |
| 19:13.26 | *** join/#debian bolt (~r00t@unaffiliated/bolt) |
| 19:14.23 | ratrace | I think aptitude can list installed package origins? |
| 19:14.43 | greycat | that mas my assumption too but I wouldn't know how to make it tell that |
| 19:14.47 | ratrace | apt and apt-get can't. it's one of big design flaws... |
| 19:15.05 | ratrace | the "manual" way is to correlate installed pakcages and versions with catalogues under /var/lib/apt/lists/ |
| 19:15.23 | ratrace | there should be an AskUbuntu post somewhere from years ago with a shell oneliner to extract that data |
| 19:16.02 | solomomi | https://askubuntu.com/questions/8560/how-do-i-find-out-which-repository-a-package-comes-from |
| 19:16.06 | ratrace | though, judging from the first error posted by solomomi, that repo likely is not in use at all |
| 19:16.38 | solomomi | retrace it doesn't exist for bullseye.. I currently commented it out |
| 19:16.50 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 19:16.52 | solomomi | hope it won't break docker |
| 19:16.56 | ratrace | https://superuser.com/questions/132346/find-packages-installed-from-a-certain-repository-with-aptitude |
| 19:16.58 | greycat | ratrace: they're trying to do a buster -> bullseye upgrade, and they edited the docker repo line. |
| 19:17.24 | ratrace | ah so wondering what packages are there from the buster "variant" of the source URL |
| 19:17.44 | *** join/#debian tyzef (~tyzef@202.153.80.50) |
| 19:18.16 | ratrace | solomomi: jelly's advice is most sound. to upgrade, you should completely disable third party repos and then reinstall what got dropped, after upgrade. but first check if docker even provides bullseye repo |
| 19:18.41 | solomomi | ratrace it doesn't |
| 19:18.54 | solomomi | but i have a backup so I'm not afraid to mess it up :D |
| 19:19.03 | greycat | Oh, how cute. The command from ratrace's superuser URL doesn't "work" on google-chrome-stable because it has "stable" in its deb line. |
| 19:19.11 | *** join/#debian disillusion (disillusio@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/disillusion) |
| 19:19.20 | ratrace | lol |
| 19:20.36 | solomomi | I like how it easy to upgrade debian! |
| 19:21.13 | solomomi | I'm not sure I understand how.. but docker is still working for me :sweat_smile: |
| 19:22.50 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:1fb3:ef3f:ece2:c6f8) |
| 19:23.53 | *** join/#debian thatpythonguy (thatpython@gateway/vpn/mullvad/thatpythonguy) |
| 19:25.19 | *** join/#debian leorat (~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat) |
| 19:25.43 | greycat | Packages that are built for, and installed on, Debian version n will typically work just fine on Debian version n+1. |
| 19:26.05 | greycat | There are some exceptions, of course, but in general.... |
| 19:29.37 | solomomi | yeah.. but I thought that if I'll remove it from the source list it will be removed |
| 19:29.40 | *** join/#debian mortderire (~mortderir@192.198.151.43) |
| 19:29.46 | solomomi | Seems like I'm wrong.. |
| 19:29.56 | solomomi | Is this mean I can't "update" it any more for example? |
| 19:31.02 | *** join/#debian jken (~jken@harvey.jken.cloud) |
| 19:31.23 | solomomi | actually nevermind |
| 19:31.29 | solomomi | thank guys! |
| 19:32.10 | ratrace | greycat: I don't understand that. isn't the most obvious thing, new libc, that requires relinking? |
| 19:32.57 | jken | Hello, I have a strange issue I am hoping someone here might know something about. Running buster, default kernel, I am using an USB to Ethernet adapter for network connectivity. If my router goes offline for a short period of time, network connectivity returns when it comes back online. HOWEVER, if the router loses power for a long period of time (confirmed at 6 hours), network connectivity never returns when the router is powered back up. When this |
| 19:32.57 | jken | happens, I don't even see my ehternet device in `ifconfig` |
| 19:33.31 | *** join/#debian konrados (~konrados@unaffiliated/konrados) |
| 19:33.33 | ratrace | probably went to sleep |
| 19:33.48 | ratrace | usb things are quirky |
| 19:33.51 | *** join/#debian Sleepy63 (~Sleepy63@47.185.218.67) |
| 19:34.28 | jken | ratrace, is that disable-able? |
| 19:34.57 | ratrace | could be, I don't know how to even check for USB network devices |
| 19:35.33 | sigint | Hi, I built a new machine with an AMD GPU (5700 xt) using the amdgpu driver. X11 gives me screen tearing (and xserver crashes when enabling TearFree). Wayland is super laggy and consumes 100% CPU when moving the cusor quickly (but no tearing). |
| 19:36.00 | sigint | Which problem should I try to tackle? Tearing on X11 or laggy Wayland? |
| 19:36.58 | jken | ratrace, you know enough to tell me I am not insane lol |
| 19:37.03 | *** join/#debian slabber (~slabber@89-79-6-80.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 19:37.07 | jken | Any idea who might know such things? |
| 19:37.47 | *** join/#debian Texou (~Texou@unaffiliated/texou) |
| 19:38.00 | ratrace | jken: if anyone here knows, they'll pipe up. you can ask again in a while if nobody does. on irc it's not uncommon to wait for days until you get an answer :) |
| 19:38.10 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-234-234.play-internet.pl) |
| 19:38.55 | *** join/#debian enyc (~enyc@muddle.enyc.org.uk) |
| 19:39.21 | ratrace | sigint: "wayland is super laggy" ... wayland is a protocol. which wayland compositor are you using and is super laggy? |
| 19:39.33 | jken | Thanks ratrace! |
| 19:39.36 | enyc | Wonder where to find out about fixing cryptsetup-initramfs |
| 19:39.47 | slowly_stuck | jken: from some googling, do you have a /sys/bus/usb/devices/*/power/autosuspend? and if so, what's the content? |
| 19:39.57 | ratrace | enyc: just describe your problem |
| 19:40.15 | enyc | I have a mess where on debian/deriv, have lost working initramfs cryptsetup enabled with the right prompting for right uuid, to access encrypted rootfs. |
| 19:40.37 | ratrace | we don't do derivatives here |
| 19:42.04 | enyc | can mount the / and /boot and then -o rbind mount /dev /proc /sys /run into the chroot of 2:2.1.0-5+deb10u2 debian-normal cryptsetup-initramfs and update-grub, but in this chroot'ed-in state, it won't 'detect' what crypttab file or so needs creating inside initramfs to make it mount root, from what I can see. |
| 19:42.39 | enyc | checks dd separating and un-cpio'ing a different deb10 cryptroot initramfs ..... cehcking for cryptroot file in there |
| 19:42.44 | sigint | ratrace, the default compositor that GNOME/gdm3 use I guess. I'm not sure how to check that |
| 19:42.46 | ratrace | initramfs tools require the /dev/mapper device to be exactly the SAME as the one listed in /etc/crypttab, on debian |
| 19:43.07 | ratrace | sigint: gnome then, yeah. mutter. then look up gnome bug tracker to see if anyone complained about the same. I'd also try a newer kernel from backports, see if that helps. |
| 19:43.42 | *** join/#debian czesmir (~stefan@aeaf136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 19:43.53 | ratrace | sigint: that said.... super poor gnome performance under wayland was a known but, I just can't remember if it was fixed _before_ of after gnome version in buster. I think it's _after_ but don't call me on the witness stand for that :) |
| 19:44.04 | ratrace | known *bug |
| 19:44.07 | jken | slowly_stuck, everything is 0 |
| 19:44.14 | *** join/#debian dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) |
| 19:44.43 | sigint | ratrace, I've used gnome on Debian 10 with Wayland on other machines and was always super happy with it |
| 19:45.11 | *** join/#debian xaviergmail (~xaviergma@ns541269.ip-144-217-11.net) |
| 19:45.15 | *** join/#debian Jad (~Nashmi@92.241.51.238) |
| 19:45.25 | sigint | Here when I say laggy, I mean absolutely unusable |
| 19:45.46 | ratrace | yeah that sounds familiar |
| 19:45.59 | ratrace | if anything, try the newer kernel from backports. could be simply an issue with the GPU drivers |
| 19:46.08 | ratrace | also I think amd requires firmware... you have that installed? |
| 19:46.14 | sigint | I run 5.9 from backports as well as non-free firmwares from backports |
| 19:46.29 | ratrace | so you're already having he ringside seats |
| 19:46.32 | slowly_stuck | jken: I don't have a system to test on, but try this <https://hamwaves.com/usb.autosuspend/en/>. And it looks like you want a value of 2 for the autosuspend file, as per here <https://askubuntu.com/a/301416>. |
| 19:47.55 | jken | slowly_stuck, I will take a look at that. Thank you. |
| 19:48.04 | *** join/#debian chris (~chris@89.36.65.254) |
| 19:49.45 | *** join/#debian godane (~godane4@154.16.166.11) |
| 19:50.13 | *** join/#debian bryanpedini (~Thunderbi@host-79-17-249-23.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:51.12 | *** join/#debian Deknos (~deknos@unaffiliated/menace) |
| 19:52.57 | *** join/#debian chipps (~chipps@2409:4060:20b:a8b9:e89:190a:abe9:9988) |
| 19:53.32 | bryanpedini | Hello everyone! (happy new year if you haven't been already told so :)) |
| 19:53.32 | bryanpedini | So, Dolphin 18.08.0 question (possibly bug), it doesn't move the favorite it should move, but the one before (https://youtu.be/3xy65WGOeuo). If this is the wrong place and some place like #kde exist or something else, please do let me know (meanwhile I'll fire up a KDE Arch Linux VM to see if problem persists outside Debian). Thanks everybody in advance! |
| 19:56.34 | *** join/#debian adapter (~adapter@2601:600:c500:2d0:145:bc00:86c6:532f) |
| 19:59.45 | *** join/#debian Betal (~Betal@unaffiliated/betal) |
| 19:59.48 | *** join/#debian Night-Shade (~TimF@ip5b406df6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 20:01.55 | *** join/#debian aligator (~aligator@160.178.30.115) |
| 20:07.57 | *** join/#debian gonzo (~gonzo@ip-213-49-177-184.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 20:11.54 | *** join/#debian szorfein_ (~daggoth@gateway/tor-sasl/szorfein) |
| 20:16.56 | *** join/#debian kriger (~norge@unaffiliated/kriger) |
| 20:17.08 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 20:17.16 | *** join/#debian mortderire (~mortderir@192.198.151.43) |
| 20:17.23 | *** join/#debian Sayona (~sayona@unaffiliated/sayona) |
| 20:19.34 | *** join/#debian __marco (~marco@195.218.6.205) |
| 20:20.02 | *** join/#debian leorat (~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat) |
| 20:20.53 | *** join/#debian qqx (~qqx@pug.qqx.org) |
| 20:24.10 | jhutchins | bryanpedini: Which Debian release? |
| 20:24.14 | *** join/#debian sway (~Milo@rrcs-24-227-81-162.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:24.37 | jhutchins | I'm frankly baffled that people keep trying to use KDE. |
| 20:24.39 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:1fb3:ef3f:ece2:c6f8) |
| 20:26.30 | diogenes_ | jhutchins, why is that? |
| 20:26.59 | *** join/#debian pvdp (~pvdp@static-n49-176-207-14.rdl2.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 20:27.35 | prg3 | Does anyone know of a repo that provides waterfox builds for debian? |
| 20:28.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1204] by debhelper |
| 20:29.24 | *** join/#debian fflori (~fflori@host-82-48-232-235.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:30.10 | dob1 | ,v taskwarrior |
| 20:30.11 | judd | Package: taskwarrior on amd64 -- jessie: 2.3.0+dfsg-3; stretch: 2.5.1+dfsg-3; stretch-backports: 2.5.1+dfsg-5~bpo9+1; buster: 2.5.1+dfsg-7; bullseye: 2.5.1+dfsg-11; sid: 2.5.2+dfsg-1 |
| 20:30.22 | jhutchins | diogenes_: It was a really solid system through 3.5, but when they re-wrote everything for 4.0 they made it way too bloated and complex and broke lots of things. There were at least three different databases trying to "index" everything. |
| 20:31.32 | diogenes_ | jhutchins, agreed. |
| 20:31.37 | ratrace | yeah KDE today is just a shadow of the might it used to be |
| 20:32.16 | zutat | at least the UI part of KDE is still usable |
| 20:34.25 | *** join/#debian cosimone (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:1fb3:ef3f:ece2:c6f8) |
| 20:35.02 | jhutchins | They had a really nice IDE in 3.5, great for doing web pages. Never re-started the project after 4. |
| 20:35.23 | jhutchins | I guess they're on 5-something these days. |
| 20:36.51 | *** join/#debian Guest19481 (~chris@2a01:4b00:85f4:7d00:2006:94d:eb95:deaf) |
| 20:36.52 | bryanpedini | jhutchins: ups, sorry: 10 buster all updated |
| 20:37.32 | *** join/#debian lavendereyes (~lavendere@gateway/tor-sasl/lavendereyes) |
| 20:38.58 | *** join/#debian JohnML (~john1@ip-178-202-6-56.hsi09.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 20:39.23 | prg3 | Plasma is really sweet nowadays and if you like the old "shadow of the might it used to be" you can use trinity which is still maintained too |
| 20:40.56 | *** join/#debian dumb_bot (~dumb_bot@50-78-106-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:41.11 | shtrb | prg3, it depends on what version you got :P |
| 20:41.28 | prg3 | Not sure what you are referencing about databases. Baloo indexes file metadata in a database - which probably makes sense. You can disable it if you want. Adokandai was dumb, yes, but plasma has moved away from it and i don't even think you need to have it installed anymore |
| 20:41.50 | prg3 | true |
| 20:43.13 | ratrace | you forgot nepomuk |
| 20:43.15 | shtrb | jhutchins, I'm using plasma , and while 3.5 was perhaps the best UI/UX I had seen (with plasma) the recent versions in Debian are not that bad. it has some hickups (like breaking the notification system , and modifying configs like wtf people ) |
| 20:43.17 | ratrace | the bane of performance under kde |
| 20:43.38 | jhutchins | One of the best things in 3.5 (which cleaned up a lot of bugs and bloat) was the integrated address book. Same address book for word processor and email and ponebook. |
| 20:43.38 | shtrb | ratrace, please leave this channel family friendly and do not use vile words |
| 20:43.45 | ratrace | mwahahahaha |
| 20:44.00 | shtrb | jhutchins, kaddressbook still exist (but now it is bundeled with akonadi) |
| 20:44.00 | jhutchins | Then 4 added 3000 blank lines to the databases, and it wouldn't even load any more. |
| 20:44.24 | shtrb | And you can use kaddresbook with just a file locally |
| 20:44.38 | jhutchins | That's something I like about Debian and xfce, I don't have to upgrade my hardware like you do with Apple. I can get years out of a functional system. |
| 20:44.42 | prg3 | Oooh - reading into it now; that sounds awful |
| 20:44.46 | prg3 | (nepomuk) |
| 20:45.53 | shtrb | still remember when baloo used to index network drives by default and your home dir :D |
| 20:46.12 | prg3 | To answer my earlier question, it looks like there are decent waterfox builds for debian here https://software.opensuse.org//download.html?project=home%3Ahawkeye116477%3Awaterfox&package=waterfox-g3-kpe |
| 20:46.53 | jhutchins | Yeah, that was one of the problems, trying to index the main storage array from an under-powered client workstation, in real time, while I was trying to work. |
| 20:47.09 | *** join/#debian akp55 (~akp55@c-73-148-15-158.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 20:47.14 | shtrb | At least Alex fixed that really fas |
| 20:47.16 | shtrb | *fast |
| 20:47.23 | prg3 | Yeah baloo can be ... questionable to say the least heh |
| 20:47.32 | zutat | does gnome3 support umask yet? |
| 20:48.33 | bryanpedini | if there is one single thing that Windows does right (except being idiot AF and impossible to repair while easier to reinstall), is "office hours" activity... besides Windows Updates which does the hell it wants regardless, other things run only when the system is inactive |
| 20:48.33 | *** join/#debian pixalot (pixalot@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/pixalot) |
| 20:48.46 | shtrb | LOL |
| 20:48.51 | *** join/#debian ceska (~Cieska@95.145.197.59) |
| 20:49.47 | ratrace | windows update does that because users are morons who still, today, use windows7 |
| 20:49.49 | shtrb | bryanpedini, I hope I had not offended you , but there is a slew of issues of Windows services that make your life hard as user |
| 20:50.16 | shtrb | It is so bad , that I disconnect it from the network to be able to work with it |
| 20:50.26 | bryanpedini | ye, basically everything else on that operating system (starting from the minecraft-look of the start menu icons and tiles and ending with the automatic reboot while *you're fricking working*) is a fricking total garbage! but at least they got "office hours" :) |
| 20:50.49 | bryanpedini | so... there's that :) |
| 20:51.16 | shtrb | ahhm .. auto download crap , onedrive , office updater issues |
| 20:51.26 | wiscii | yep, they extorted your working hours data out of you .. |
| 20:52.08 | zutat | shtrb: you forgot about textual ads in the terminal |
| 20:52.15 | bryanpedini | ratrace: of course users still use Windows 7... I'm about to install an SSD on my father's 9yo laptop, which Windows version do ya think I'm gonna install? that bloatware adware malware spy crap called 10? I'm not a moron, I'm privacy concerned... |
| 20:52.23 | shtrb | Oh and don't let me started about the AI #%@#% they do for payed hosted e-mails |
| 20:52.29 | shtrb | zutat, I don't get it (yet) |
| 20:52.54 | zutat | shtrb: it appears on powershell |
| 20:52.56 | shtrb | bryanpedini, install debian :P and rip all cloud services |
| 20:53.06 | shtrb | zutat, I guess I'm lucky as I don't get it (yet) |
| 20:53.08 | ratrace | bryanpedini: well good luck with soon-to-become windows7 bloatware malware fest crap as it gets infected becasue there's no longer security patches for it |
| 20:53.30 | bryanpedini | shtrb: if it was that easy to convert "normies" to Linux, I would live in a better world already |
| 20:53.35 | robobox | yeah, we *are* in the debian channel |
| 20:53.39 | shtrb | ratrace, you can alaways route windows traffic via a Debian VM :P |
| 20:53.41 | robobox | it is, actaully |
| 20:53.48 | ratrace | shtrb: as if that would help :) |
| 20:54.18 | shtrb | ratrace, ufw + proper rules would save your gluteus maximus most of the time |
| 20:54.20 | bryanpedini | ratrace: true what shtrb said about routing, but anyway I feel safer on a EOL Windows 7 under a serious Linux router/firewall unit, rather than having Windows 10 at all :) |
| 20:54.32 | robobox | especially if they were in an office in the 80s or 90s |
| 20:54.54 | robobox | normal people had to use unix then, so they should be able to use it |
| 20:55.06 | bryanpedini | even "naked" iptables is better than W10 integrated firewall + Win Defender together... |
| 20:55.07 | ratrace | shtrb: you're talking only bout a subset of vectors, via open ports. majority of infections come through trojans and bugs in, say, chrome |
| 20:55.08 | robobox | of course... there is the new generation that grew up on NT |
| 20:55.11 | shtrb | bryanpedini, people don't know Debian the same way they don't know Windows (IT) , give them the basics and they will find themselvs in a nice life |
| 20:55.26 | shtrb | I had a ~90 year old person using debian + plasma without too many problems few years ago |
| 20:56.03 | bryanpedini | shtrb: absolutely true, tho normies are lazy guys on their couches watching TV and don't want to even worry about learning what they already know |
| 20:56.29 | shtrb | Here's the point , many people don't know windows either |
| 20:56.31 | robobox | that may be true for youngsters |
| 20:56.38 | bryanpedini | my grandpa hated when I converted his still-working (1yo) WinXP to 7, let alone if I shown him 10, *or Deb!!* |
| 20:56.39 | shtrb | feces , I work with debian and I don't know it either |
| 20:56.40 | robobox | but not for older peeps |
| 20:57.03 | wsky | using and bootstraping are two different things |
| 20:57.08 | shtrb | If not ratrace I would be still getting apparmor messages |
| 20:57.23 | ratrace | hmmm? |
| 20:57.38 | shtrb | you helped me in the past , and I'm gratefull for that |
| 20:57.48 | ratrace | oh that, no bother. |
| 20:58.16 | bryanpedini | let me try this: I'll put Debian + Mate and I'm gonna change start menu icon and background to WinXP, then pretend it was WinXP like nothing has ever happened :) :) :) |
| 20:58.28 | bryanpedini | see what my father has to say then ahhaha |
| 20:58.37 | ratrace | I think there's a theme for xfce |
| 20:58.41 | shtrb | lindos |
| 20:58.44 | *** join/#debian Steeve (~steve@unaffiliated/steeve) |
| 20:58.58 | bryanpedini | then it's basically Windows, just without Windows under the hood, LOL... |
| 20:59.01 | robobox | you're also going to have to get chrome 50 or firefox 52 esr |
| 20:59.03 | wsky | there used to be many themes xp-like back i nthe days for any de |
| 20:59.12 | robobox | or see if IE8 runs in wine |
| 20:59.23 | shtrb | we came to an age when people don't know what linspire was |
| 20:59.23 | bryanpedini | robobox: IE9 at least, come on... |
| 20:59.28 | ratrace | good luck with modern TLSv1.2+ only web tho |
| 20:59.32 | wsky | -look.org even had original ixp icons ported to linux |
| 20:59.55 | robobox | most windows themes for *nix desktops use the sane classic theme or aero |
| 20:59.58 | wsky | until someone found out and that was against eula |
| 20:59.58 | shtrb | Speaking of IE , what is the modern ie4linux for recent IE versions |
| 21:00.14 | ratrace | there's actually Edge for Linux |
| 21:00.22 | shtrb | wsky, what ?! a theme is against EULA ? |
| 21:00.26 | robobox | bryanpedini but Microsoft said you can't! (Just like running Windows 98 without its bloat) |
| 21:00.27 | bryanpedini | MS ported Edge to Ubuntu |
| 21:00.28 | *** join/#debian shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) |
| 21:00.32 | wsky | well, the icons were very proprietary |
| 21:00.45 | robobox | is it a standard deb? |
| 21:00.52 | wsky | the icon theme was basically xp icons ripped out and ported to linux format |
| 21:01.01 | *** join/#debian Stryker (~Stryker@unaffiliated/stryker) |
| 21:01.14 | wsky | so they were forced to take that down |
| 21:01.21 | bryanpedini | wsky: didn't they argue they created themselves just "taking inspiration" from Win? :P |
| 21:01.38 | wsky | no, they were literarly icons taken out from xp |
| 21:01.44 | bryanpedini | upsie... |
| 21:02.05 | wsky | with that it was possible to make you linux to look very alike xp |
| 21:02.10 | jelly | bryanpedini, new edge is just chromium with a different sync backend and default search engine, not much porting to do |
| 21:02.11 | wsky | your linux* |
| 21:02.13 | bryanpedini | better have added that one pixel with a slight color change so MD5 would vary and YT algorithm wouldn't have picked it up... |
| 21:02.34 | *** join/#debian zln (~zln@gateway/tor-sasl/zln) |
| 21:03.38 | jhutchins | checks the /topic. Yup, Debian support, not Windows politics. |
| 21:03.38 | bryanpedini | jelly: and that's why I understand even less the needing of a Microsoft-branded browser if it's just Chromium with MS logo and different search engine on top, why would I want to constantly be reminded what stupid company created the OS I'm running when browsing the web, and most importantly search over Bing? (seriously?) |
| 21:03.50 | *** join/#debian denken (~denken@addax.k22.io) |
| 21:03.51 | ratrace | jeebus effin christ, debian packages are a mess! WHICH ONE ....... is the source package for the kernel .......... |
| 21:03.52 | bryanpedini | jhutchins: ups.. sorry, my bad too |
| 21:04.03 | bryanpedini | ratrace: linux-image ? |
| 21:04.10 | shtrb | bryanpedini, we #debian-offtopic for stuff like that |
| 21:04.18 | ratrace | bryanpedini: nope |
| 21:04.40 | jhutchins | ratrace: I think you have to specify the version. |
| 21:04.45 | bryanpedini | ratrace: I got `linux-image-amd64` installed (binaries), source might be -src |
| 21:05.08 | bryanpedini | I have `linux-image-4.19.0-[11,12,13]-amd64` |
| 21:05.11 | jhutchins | Don't think there's an auto-updated alias for "latest". |
| 21:05.36 | *** join/#debian josspyker (~quassel@unaffiliated/josspyker) |
| 21:05.52 | ratrace | nope nope nope! I want the packe, the one that contains the debian specific patches. |
| 21:06.11 | *** join/#debian AliasNumber10 (~crix@cpe-76-167-192-248.san.res.rr.com) |
| 21:06.16 | ratrace | I either get linux-latest (which doesn't contain anything) or I get linux-signed (which doesn't contain anything) |
| 21:08.13 | shtrb | ratrace, linux |
| 21:08.25 | bryanpedini | ratrace: https://debian.pkgs.org/10/debian-main-amd64/linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64-unsigned_4.19.160-2_amd64.deb.html doesn't suggest that there is patches applied for this vers (look under "source: linux" |
| 21:08.29 | bryanpedini | ) * |
| 21:08.30 | shtrb | ratrace,apt-get source linux |
| 21:09.15 | shtrb | think ratrace was just testing all of us |
| 21:10.51 | ratrace | shtrb: looks like "linux" it is. nope, I wasn't testing. I'm really dumbfounded how complex and unintuitive this crap is. And then they want us to contribute. HAHAHAHA. |
| 21:11.28 | jelly | bryanpedini, don't ignore the sync backend, using a single account for all tools bundled with the OS is convenient |
| 21:11.59 | bryanpedini | ratrace: well, actually it is simple, just download from kernel.org and contribute (than it's a matter of the complexity that there is behind which damn git system/server do they use, but that's another story) |
| 21:12.17 | shtrb | git is easier than quilt |
| 21:12.18 | ratrace | the bug I'm trying to fix is specific to debian patching |
| 21:12.46 | bryanpedini | http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/ is a quite explanatory source for the Linux kernel, since you have to *compile it* by yourself :) |
| 21:12.58 | bryanpedini | (the books, I mean) |
| 21:13.15 | *** join/#debian DodgeThis (~DodgeThis@246.102.90.149.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 21:13.44 | ratrace | I don't need the upstream kernel, and I know how to build them, been a gentoo user longer than debian. I needed specifically the kernel source package for debian, but here's a multitude of them and tryig what you ordinarily would with apt-get source <regular package name> did not work |
| 21:13.45 | sney | ratrace: maybe there are some clues here and in the repo generally, https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/-/blob/master/debian/patches/series |
| 21:13.51 | bryanpedini | shtrb: never heard of quilt, anyway I was refering about the complexity behind setup and usage of GitHub/GitLab/Google Code server/etc etc |
| 21:14.24 | ratrace | sney: what's worse, even this is wrong: https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/ch-packaging.html |
| 21:14.45 | ratrace | but nvm... shtrb was on it, "linux" is the source package name |
| 21:14.49 | ratrace | (thanks) |
| 21:14.58 | *** join/#debian CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) |
| 21:15.00 | shtrb | bryanpedini, debian patches are done via quilt https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt |
| 21:15.04 | *** join/#debian CrypticSquared (~CrypticS_@unaffiliated/crypticsquared) |
| 21:15.40 | bryanpedini | shtrb: I see, thanks |
| 21:15.42 | bryanpedini | never heard of it |
| 21:15.51 | bryanpedini | (never been a package maintainer, so..) |
| 21:17.18 | *** join/#debian yokel (~yokel@unaffiliated/contempt) |
| 21:18.30 | *** join/#debian banox (~banox@82.102.27.217) |
| 21:19.42 | *** join/#debian JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) |
| 21:19.50 | JordiGH | Icweasel did have its own patches at one point, right? |
| 21:20.12 | shtrb | ratrace, fyi the kernel handbook is little bit outdated (2016?) |
| 21:20.12 | *** join/#debian Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) |
| 21:20.13 | JordiGH | That's what Mozilla objected to in the first place, that it wasn't just a straight copy of Firefox, right? |
| 21:20.45 | shtrb | JordiGH, yes |
| 21:20.54 | *** join/#debian coot (~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 21:21.21 | gnat_x | weren't those patches just to remove the trademarked/non-free images/ |
| 21:21.49 | greycat | those came later |
| 21:22.43 | *** join/#debian sway (~Milo@rrcs-24-227-81-162.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:25.37 | *** join/#debian beelzebuzz (~rasputin@gateway/tor-sasl/beelzebuzz) |
| 21:26.25 | *** join/#debian Steeve (~steve@unaffiliated/steeve) |
| 21:26.53 | *** join/#debian DaNeenjah (~DaNeenjah@2600:1005:b10f:5731:6afa:3ed1:965:20d7) |
| 21:28.38 | *** join/#debian yoshi15 (~yoshi15@ns566348.ip-51-79-19.net) |
| 21:31.20 | *** join/#debian d1cor (~d1cor@unaffiliated/d1cor) |
| 21:35.10 | *** join/#debian mortderi1 (~mortderir@192.198.151.43) |
| 21:35.39 | *** join/#debian Tom01 (~tom@a89-183-114-114.net-htp.de) |
| 21:36.27 | *** join/#debian milkt (~debian@gateway/tor-sasl/milkt) |
| 21:37.04 | *** join/#debian Newami (~Newami@ip70-179-45-125.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 21:39.30 | *** join/#debian Deyaa (uid190709@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhrkchfpzdoqcyhl) |
| 21:40.09 | *** join/#debian earthundead (~earthunde@188.170.80.80) |
| 21:41.17 | *** join/#debian S3xyL1nux (~tristan@218.155.40.50) |
| 21:43.35 | jhutchins | shtrb: They don't use diff and patch? |
| 21:43.43 | *** join/#debian n4dir (~n4dir@88.130.152.8) |
| 21:45.12 | shtrb | jhutchins, diff/patch goes to upstream , quilt for changes on debian level |
| 21:48.10 | shtrb | But if you would send a patch to the DD they would be happy to accept it too |
| 21:50.27 | *** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423) |
| 21:57.06 | *** join/#debian greentree47 (~greentree@unaffiliated/greentree47) |
| 21:57.23 | greentree47 | which version of debian comes prepackaged with py3.7.x? |
| 21:59.04 | rk4 | you can work that out from packages.debian.org |
| 22:00.30 | jmcnaught | greentree47: Debian 10 "buster" comes with Python 3.7.3 |
| 22:04.20 | *** join/#debian BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 22:04.59 | *** join/#debian mortderi1 (~mortderir@192.198.151.43) |
| 22:07.20 | greentree47 | thank you |
| 22:15.45 | *** join/#debian Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@ZN021178.ppp.dion.ne.jp) |
| 22:17.13 | *** join/#debian xompax (uid200197@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ugldpsjjxwneriuf) |
| 22:21.57 | *** join/#debian wisbit (~reddit@94.106.241.58) |
| 22:23.36 | wisbit | good evening guys, I have created a service containing a /usr/bin/java -jar /home/user/App/app.jar --headless </dev/null &>/home/user/App/app.log |
| 22:23.51 | wisbit | the problem is that it doesn't send the output in that log file |
| 22:24.20 | wisbit | while, starting that command manually works well and the app.log is correctly used |
| 22:24.24 | ratrace | wisbit: that's on the Exec line of the .service unit? |
| 22:24.56 | wisbit | ratrace, that's correct |
| 22:24.59 | ratrace | yeah, no. the Exec= line is not a shell.... < > & redirection doesn't work there. |
| 22:25.07 | greycat | 1) you can't use shell redirections in Exec= at all; 2) &> is not a standard shell redirection; it's bash crap. |
| 22:25.27 | wisbit | fair enough, it is indeed used in bash |
| 22:25.33 | greycat | 3) systemd units can't log to a human-readable file at all. |
| 22:25.43 | rk4 | :( |
| 22:25.48 | ratrace | actually they can |
| 22:26.04 | greycat | if they can, they sure went out of their way to hide that |
| 22:26.44 | ratrace | StandardOutput= and StandardError= directives, see systemd.exec(5) |
| 22:27.20 | *** join/#debian Elodin (~weechat@unaffiliated/padawan) |
| 22:27.32 | wisbit | ratrace, yup I was just on that |
| 22:27.44 | Elodin | Hello, what is responsible for date format in my system? |
| 22:27.48 | Elodin | is it locale? |
| 22:27.54 | ratrace | timezone |
| 22:27.55 | greycat | yes |
| 22:28.01 | ratrace | oh _format_ ... nvm |
| 22:28.03 | wisbit | cheers guys ratrace greycat |
| 22:28.22 | greycat | LC_TIME and LANG |
| 22:28.30 | Elodin | i'm using buster, what is the proper way to change locales? |
| 22:28.34 | Elodin | using localegen? |
| 22:28.38 | greycat | Depends on whether you use GNOME or not. |
| 22:28.47 | Elodin | i dont. it's cli only |
| 22:28.52 | Elodin | just the tty |
| 22:28.59 | greycat | Oh, perfect. Just set LC_TIME=C in your .profile and be done. |
| 22:29.05 | greycat | (exported of course) |
| 22:30.28 | ddsys | do i need speech-dispatcher enabled at all? i don't use screen reader or anything |
| 22:30.45 | *** join/#debian rgr (~rgr@p200300e417153e743751429564c5ac72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:33.02 | *** join/#debian Tom01 (~tom@a89-183-114-114.net-htp.de) |
| 22:34.18 | ratrace | I'm gonna hazard a guess and say: no. |
| 22:34.47 | ddsys | it was enabled by default |
| 22:35.07 | ddsys | xfce |
| 22:35.10 | greycat | the obvious answer is "disable it and see if anything breaks" |
| 22:35.21 | ddsys | right |
| 22:36.08 | BCMM | ddsys: you've probably installed a desktop task that includes accessibility tools |
| 22:36.23 | ddsys | hmm |
| 22:36.51 | BCMM | removing it may remove your desktop task, so be careful with autoremove afterwards |
| 22:36.53 | n4dir | pacpl, a perl tool to convert audio files from one format to another, perl complaints but syntax warnings (errors in the future, if i understand correct). Anyone uses it and has a workaround? http://paste.debian.net/1179728/ |
| 22:37.01 | n4dir | same for pastebinit and python, btw |
| 22:37.28 | n4dir | "just ignore" is the answer i am looking for |
| 22:37.37 | ddsys | BCMM: thanks |
| 22:37.41 | greycat | has a bug already been filed for those warnings? |
| 22:38.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1198] by debhelper |
| 22:38.02 | n4dir | greycat: damnit. let me check. I wanted to, then got confused. sorry |
| 22:39.06 | n4dir | doesn't look like it. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=unstable;package=pacpl |
| 22:39.21 | Elodin | greycat: why "LC_TIME=C"? |
| 22:39.32 | greycat | I just assumed you wanted the traditional format back, like I did. |
| 22:40.05 | greycat | unicorn:~$ (date; unset LC_TIME; date) |
| 22:40.05 | greycat | Mon Jan 4 17:39:58 EST 2021 |
| 22:40.05 | greycat | Mon 04 Jan 2021 05:39:58 PM EST |
| 22:40.16 | Elodin | i want the portuguese_brazilian format |
| 22:40.25 | greycat | OK, then set it however you like ;-) |
| 22:40.27 | Elodin | where i see this stuff? |
| 22:40.32 | greycat | !locales |
| 22:40.32 | dpkg | Use 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates <locale> definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time. Use "LANG=C command" to change the output language for a one off command, ask me about <localised errors>. See also <mac locales>. http://wiki.debian.org/Locale |
| 22:41.24 | greycat | buster changed the LC_TIME format for en_US to ... that thing. |
| 22:41.42 | Elodin | i already did dpkg-reconfigure locales |
| 22:41.48 | Elodin | lemme restart to see |
| 22:41.57 | greycat | that just makes the pt_BR and so on become available as choices |
| 22:42.10 | greycat | you still have to set the variables to actually choose them |
| 22:42.39 | Elodin | oh i see |
| 22:43.00 | *** join/#debian cliluw (~cliluw@unaffiliated/cliluw) |
| 22:43.54 | *** join/#debian yonder (~yonder@unaffiliated/yonder) |
| 22:44.11 | Elodin | i think i needed to reboot |
| 22:44.15 | Elodin | its okay now |
| 22:44.17 | Elodin | thanks |
| 22:44.18 | *** join/#debian oxek (oxek@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/oxek) |
| 22:44.27 | greycat | You only need to log out and back in. |
| 22:46.54 | *** join/#debian GigaFlow (GigaFlow@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/gigaflow) |
| 22:47.35 | *** join/#debian krukudilo (~krukudilo@gateway/tor-sasl/krukudilo) |
| 22:48.35 | *** join/#debian thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) |
| 22:48.38 | *** join/#debian pixalot_ (pixalot@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/pixalot) |
| 22:50.35 | *** join/#debian incal (~user@c-fd84225c.021-67-7570702.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 22:52.53 | incal | hi, I just disabled every single systemd service, except getty@.service, without it Emacs wouldn't start in tty1 for some reason, but strangely, the other ttys with tmux were fine. the number of processes seems largely unaffected, internet is up as you can see. computer seems faster in general tho. I wonder what the implications are? |
| 22:53.27 | *** join/#debian SubOptimal (~SubOptima@2a02:908:2540:f4c0:9c09:5804:826f:e63c) |
| 22:53.42 | qman__ | disabling a service is not the same as stopping a service |
| 22:53.53 | qman__ | the implication is your system will fail to boot next time, since everything is disabled |
| 22:54.31 | greycat | it should still boot; it just might not do all the things you expect |
| 22:54.34 | incal | no I rebooted several times |
| 22:55.13 | ratrace | well one thing that comes to mind is your clock will drift if you disabled timesyncd and didn't install a replacement |
| 22:56.25 | incal | ratrace, don't have that, ntp.service tho if that is something similar? now disabled. will the clock drift? |
| 22:56.33 | incal | then I should enable it... |
| 22:57.28 | incal | anything else considered critical? |
| 22:57.37 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-235-97.play-internet.pl) |
| 22:57.39 | jhutchins | All these people talking about system speed make me wonder what they're doing with the system. Gaming? |
| 22:58.05 | incal | don't know, I just do Emacs and zsh, and mpv in X |
| 22:58.10 | jhutchins | Bitcoin mining? |
| 22:58.20 | *** join/#debian krukudilo (~krukudilo@gateway/tor-sasl/krukudilo) |
| 22:58.26 | jhutchins | Munching huge spreadsheets? |
| 22:58.33 | incal | heh, no no |
| 22:58.43 | jhutchins | incal: If that's all you're doing, how can you tell that the system is any faster? |
| 22:58.47 | ratrace | well I run a windows gaming VM yes |
| 22:59.19 | jhutchins | You should be able to run emacs on a pentium III and not see it be "slow". |
| 22:59.22 | incal | jhutchins, everything is faster |
| 22:59.35 | Souler | Do any of you have a Thinkpad W541? I need help. |
| 22:59.36 | incal | well, it is even faster than! :) |
| 22:59.47 | incal | THEN |
| 22:59.49 | jhutchins | mpv, yeah, if the GPU is pretty old. |
| 23:00.11 | jhutchins | incal: Faster than <something> is correcect. |
| 23:00.19 | jhutchins | incal: Then is a point in time. |
| 23:00.20 | incal | you don't feel it with mpv, the interactive feel is faster with typing, opening and closing tmux panes etc |
| 23:00.26 | qman__ | incal: if you disable something, you should look up what it does first; then you would know what each of those things does and whether you want them or not |
| 23:01.00 | incal | no, "well, it is even faster [than before], then" as in then = correction to previous statement, it wasn't slow, it was fast, but now it is faster still |
| 23:01.02 | jmcnaught | Souler: better to ask about the issue you are having, maybe nobody else has a W541 but could still answer your question. |
| 23:01.08 | ratrace | incal: I think you're just seing placebo speed up. otherwise, show us the numbers, averages and their standard deviations |
| 23:01.54 | incal | it is faster, try it yourself if you don't believe me or believe whatever you want |
| 23:01.55 | jmcnaught | How long will it take for the speed gains to make up for the time spent optimizing? |
| 23:02.08 | jhutchins | incal: Well, if you think you can tell, I guess that nice for you. |
| 23:02.15 | Souler | I need install wifi driver |
| 23:02.27 | jhutchins | Having worked with a 48 baud I've gotta say slow is relative. |
| 23:03.18 | incal | I _know_ I can tell but that isn't the issue, rather, are there any services in particular you think one should really have, other than the ntp.service if the clock will drift w/o it, because I don't want that, so thank, can you think of any other service? |
| 23:03.55 | jhutchins | timedatesync.service |
| 23:04.00 | jhutchins | Should already be there. |
| 23:04.01 | *** join/#debian krukudilo (~krukudilo@gateway/tor-sasl/krukudilo) |
| 23:04.15 | incal | use this to get a list, $ systemctl list-unit-files --type=service --state=enabled --plain --no-pager |
| 23:04.18 | qman__ | all the services that come enabled by default, are enabled by default for a reason |
| 23:04.46 | incal | jhutchins, don't have that (at all) |
| 23:04.48 | jmcnaught | Souler: what wifi device do you have? You can probably find it with "lspci". If it is Intel you probably only need to install the firmware-iwlwifi package from non-free. |
| 23:04.52 | jhutchins | qman__: Not always a GOOD reason, but a reason. |
| 23:04.57 | qman__ | correct |
| 23:05.05 | incal | qman__, yes, of course |
| 23:05.11 | qman__ | so before you go turning things off, look up what they do and decide for yourself if you care about what they do |
| 23:05.15 | jhutchins | qman__: I've probably mis-typed it. |
| 23:05.16 | qman__ | "critical" is a relative term |
| 23:05.28 | ratrace | depends.... gnome starts a buncha processes because they _might_ be required somewhre. like the color correction service..... but those aren't systemd services |
| 23:05.35 | incal | qman__, I have already done it |
| 23:05.35 | jhutchins | Considering you can still use the unit as a hammer. |
| 23:05.44 | *** join/#debian Souler (~Souler@user-5-173-235-97.play-internet.pl) |
| 23:06.56 | *** part/#debian spacedust (~info@unaffiliated/cosmicblue) |
| 23:12.47 | *** join/#debian invra (~invra@185.241.29.217) |
| 23:14.05 | incal | re: time, I can refresh it manually once a day with $ ntpdate -s ntp.server.com |
| 23:16.42 | incal | e.g., with crontab -e, then 0 1 * * * ntpdate -s ntp.ubuntu.com |
| 23:18.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1192] by debhelper |
| 23:20.51 | jhutchins | incal: Yes, you can, but ntp will adjust for drift. |
| 23:22.11 | incal | without the service? OK, great |
| 23:22.12 | jhutchins | incal: What hardware is this you're running? |
| 23:25.06 | incal | https://dataswamp.org/~incal/ebchw/COMPUTER |
| 23:25.12 | jhutchins | systemd-timedated.service, timeddatectl to query/set things. |
| 23:25.39 | oxek | the only usecase I've experienced that legitimately required stopping every possible non-essential process was to demonstrate data recovery from electronic emissions of the machine |
| 23:25.55 | oxek | systemd randomly firing ntp update during that time would be annoying |
| 23:25.57 | ratrace | actually systemd-timesyncd.service is the ntp client |
| 23:26.37 | *** join/#debian Scotty_Trees (~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:26.44 | jhutchins | remains highly skeptical that someone can see a speed difference on a quad core. |
| 23:27.26 | oxek | jhutchins: you'll see fewer failures if using realtime kernel |
| 23:27.42 | *** join/#debian Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@ZN021178.ppp.dion.ne.jp) |
| 23:28.55 | incal | you can feel the difference, and not just in this case, load a bunch of Elisp on Emacs and compare interactive feel with $ emacs -Q, put a bunch of stuff in .xinitrc |
| 23:29.03 | incal | etc |
| 23:29.47 | oxek | incal: a randomized placebo-controlled double-blind experiment would be required before I believe that |
| 23:30.24 | *** join/#debian ax562 (~ax562@unaffiliated/ax562) |
| 23:31.02 | jhutchins | ratrace: Technically, yes, but when people say "ntp client" they usually mean ntpd. |
| 23:31.47 | jhutchins | Which, yeah, is technically also a server. I think there's another one that's client-only, but it's been pretty much preempted by systemd. |
| 23:32.31 | jhutchins | "It's faster because I painted a racing stripe on it." |
| 23:32.38 | ratrace | chrony |
| 23:32.58 | jhutchins | ratrace: Yeah, I think that's the one I was thinking of. |
| 23:33.15 | ratrace | ISC ntpd is also a server yeah. there's also openntpd, but that's openbsd's NIH with embedded libressl iirc |
| 23:33.24 | incal | well, disable yourself and find out ... if you dare |
| 23:33.58 | oxek | +1 for ntpdate |
| 23:34.20 | ratrace | incal: I install debians via debootstrap. I build the systems from ground up and am currently on most minimalistic system I can build for what I functionally need, with xorg and i3wm. I know how the system behaves with no systemd services enabled, and I think you're just seeing a placebo |
| 23:34.52 | ratrace | unless, of course you had some non-default data crunching service going on, or something from the freedesktop paradigm, that, yes, when stopped would release cpu cycles and iops |
| 23:35.04 | jmcnaught | !why not ntpdate |
| 23:35.04 | dpkg | Use a daemon like ntpd, chrony or openntpd instead of <ntpdate> to keep your time synchronised. Rationale at http://www.redhat.com/archives/nahant-list/2005-December/msg00009.html . ntpdate is deprecated upstream (Debian bug #514318). |
| 23:35.12 | incal | ratrace, I'm not here do convince anyone |
| 23:35.17 | incal | to |
| 23:35.37 | ratrace | welp you mentioned "disable yourself and find out" a few times, so it may sound as if you are :) |
| 23:36.31 | incal | rather it's to underline most people don't dare do that |
| 23:37.01 | jhutchins | incal: You should probably compile a custom kernel optimized for your hardware as well. |
| 23:37.16 | ratrace | I am assuming however that when you said you stopped all services you didn't really stop udev, and logind, or dbus |
| 23:37.53 | ratrace | and yes... compile custom kernel without the megaton of modules you don't need, as some also slow down the kernel functionally |
| 23:38.45 | incal | no, only those who showed up with $ systemctl list-unit-files --type=service --state=enabled --plain --no-pager # and that was |
| 23:39.08 | incal | 29 |
| 23:39.45 | incal | ratrace, interesting, what modules are those? |
| 23:40.36 | ratrace | some debugging and kernel hacking modules |
| 23:41.18 | incal | right, but you don't have a list or compile options? |
| 23:41.52 | jhutchins | is happier the closer he sticks to system defaults. |
| 23:42.04 | ratrace | btw, looking at my list produced by the filters you listed, I see only autovt@, binfmt-support, console-setup, keyboard-setup, cron, dbus, rsyslog and getty@ among of services I did not explicitly require or install myself. I don't think you should disable any of them |
| 23:42.05 | jhutchins | Also makes maintaining 1500 servers a lot easier. |
| 23:42.14 | ratrace | incal: I don't |
| 23:42.33 | ratrace | get the kernel source, go through menuconfig and read the help for each |
| 23:42.45 | incal | OK, thanks |
| 23:42.46 | jhutchins | ratrace: Right. |
| 23:43.38 | ratrace | jhutchins: with proper automation, even maintaining 1500 LFS installations can be a breeze ;) |
| 23:43.39 | jhutchins | ... then when a new kernel comes out, go back, jack, do it again. |
| 23:44.18 | incal | I did disable console-setup, cron, keyboard-setup, and rsyslog |
| 23:44.26 | ratrace | yeah new major version updates bring a ton of new stuff. in my case, i'm afraid of upcoming bullseye's 5.10 becuase it breaks some very critical things in my setup: like the iommu layout |
| 23:44.26 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:44.32 | jhutchins | Yeah, but three slightly different distributions and three releases each... |
| 23:44.53 | incal | but console seems fine, font and compose keys are up, I'm typing this in ERC in /dev/tty1 |
| 23:45.11 | incal | chvt fine |
| 23:45.22 | ratrace | incal: note that a "service" doesn't necessarily mean a constantly running program. it could be Type=oneshot "services" |
| 23:45.40 | *** join/#debian ttrs (~ttrs@unaffiliated/ttrs) |
| 23:45.45 | ratrace | like console-setup |
| 23:46.04 | ratrace | runs once on boot, sets what it needs to, exits. but it is "enabled" |
| 23:46.19 | ratrace | some even RemainAfterExit, which means they register as running while they're not really. |
| 23:46.40 | incal | reboot is much faster |
| 23:46.43 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:47.00 | ratrace | disabling dbus is gonna cause you issues if you intend to use desktopy/xorg-y applications. disabling rsyslog without making journal persistent will leave you without logs in case of a crash |
| 23:49.51 | ratrace | looking at my systemd-analyze blame, it boots within 700ms before it starts the services I explicitely requested for a total of 2 seconds which include postgres dev database, nginx, php, zfs services. so if I disabled them all... except those that I really needed for... well... work.... I doubt i'd notice boot speedup in the below 700msec range |
| 23:49.59 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:50.53 | ratrace | on top of those 2 seconds is 5-10 seconds of POST, and that much for me to type up the LUKS passphrase. so I'd be shaving less than 700 msec out of 30 seconds that I cannot remove by any means |
| 23:51.18 | ratrace | and _that_ is the placebo I'm talking about. |
| 23:51.37 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:52.18 | ratrace | and lol even my local resolver, the behemoth Bind, started in 101ms. |
| 23:52.52 | *** join/#debian tyzef (~tyzef@202.153.81.249) |
| 23:52.56 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:53.38 | incal | OK, I'm getting the linux-source-5.9 now, let's see what happens |
| 23:54.02 | ratrace | well if you trust phoronix numbers, 5.x series is getting slower with each release compared to 4.19 |
| 23:54.25 | *** join/#debian valeoak (~valeoak@host-92-30-195-136.as13285.net) |
| 23:54.43 | ratrace | and btw, 5.9 is EOLd. |
| 23:54.53 | *** join/#debian Bjornn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:56.55 | *** join/#debian Bjorn- (~Bjornn@2603-7080-9201-553f-0000-db01-be7a-1c9a.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 23:57.41 | *** join/#debian gpxlnx (~gxavier@2804:828:f211:381c:d38d:6273:d4ea:d983) |
| 23:58.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1186] by debhelper |
| 23:58.05 | incal | oh, that's so much stuff! I don't know half of that |
| 23:58.13 | incal | with make menuconfig I mean |
| 23:58.35 | *** part/#debian gpxlnx (~gxavier@2804:828:f211:381c:d38d:6273:d4ea:d983) |