| 00:05.01 | f8e4 | sney thank you |
| 00:05.20 | f8e4 | y too ok dpkg ok |
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| 00:12.47 | derpadmin | sorry if anyone reply to me... I rebooted since I am trying wake on lan :) |
| 00:13.06 | mrkramps | sry, no reply yet |
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| 00:41.38 | losgb1 | HI, I have some issues using the "pv" command in Debian Buster. I want to show a progress bar for the command "srm" (similar to "rm"). When I pipe "pv" to "srm" like so -> "srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv" it displays a progress bar but only the timer is active. No ETA, the progress bar doesn't move. This is not what I'm looking for. When I pipe "pv" |
| 00:41.38 | losgb1 | like so -> "pv ./Desktop/test | srm -lr ./Desktop/test" I do not see a progress bar. But when I quit the command using "ctrl+c", the command exits and a resulting line shows the progress bar with all information present (bytes parsed, ETA, time elapsed, etc.) except that, as I said, the command exited and thus the operation is no longer active. Is |
| 00:41.39 | losgb1 | there any way that I could wht is shown with after I use "ctrl+c" shown as the command is progressing ? Meaning that I would have bytes parsed, ETA, time elapsed, etc. showing progress ? Thans for the help. |
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| 00:49.29 | mutante | losgb1: seem like I see something when I hit Enter key multiple time while pv | something |
| 00:52.15 | losgb1 | losgb1: @mutante Hi, I don't see anything, just carriage return to the line underneath. The idea is to put it in a script so no human interaction, it has to be contained in the command. |
| 00:52.43 | sney | don't @ people on irc, most clients ignore this kind of highlight |
| 00:52.52 | losgb1 | ok |
| 00:53.12 | losgb1 | sney That's what I wanted to do. |
| 00:54.24 | mutante | I see the ping but I don't have the answer. |
| 00:54.46 | losgb1 | Just reposting the question as the end was not clear (messed up the text) |
| 00:54.58 | losgb1 | Hi, I have some issues using the "pv" command in Debian Buster. I want to show a progress bar for the command "srm" (similar to "rm"). When I pipe "pv" to "srm" like so -> "srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv" it displays a progress bar but only the timer is active. No ETA, the progress bar doesn't move. This is not what I'm looking for. When I pipe "pv" |
| 00:54.58 | losgb1 | like so -> "pv ./Desktop/test | srm -lr ./Desktop/test" I do not see a progress bar. But when I quit the command using "ctrl+c", the command exits and a resulting line shows the progress bar with all information present (bytes parsed, ETA, time elapsed, etc.) except that, as I said, the command exited and thus the operation is no longer active. Is |
| 00:54.59 | losgb1 | there any way that I could see what is shown after I use "ctrl+c" as the command is progressing ? Meaning that I would have bytes parsed, ETA, time elapsed, etc. showing progress ? Thans for the help. |
| 00:55.15 | losgb1 | sney Ok, thanks. |
| 00:56.42 | losgb1 | mutante Thanks. (My bad sney) |
| 00:57.12 | sney | I don't know either, I don't use pv. |
| 00:57.59 | losgb1 | sney I just looked around for convenient ways to see a progress bar while using a bash command. There are others but pv seemed like the most integrated and less complicated of commands. |
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| 01:03.58 | mutante | losgb1: what about just "pv | srm -lr ./Desktop/test" |
| 01:04.17 | mutante | I don't even know what srm does.. but the file name seemed to belong to that |
| 01:04.40 | mutante | and examples just do "pv | somecommand" |
| 01:05.13 | mutante | losgb1: also this? "Use âforce option to force an operation. This option forces pv to display visuals when standard error is not a terminal" ? |
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| 01:07.16 | losgb1 | mutante "pv | srm -lr ./Desktop/test" and "pv --force | srm -lr ./Desktop/test" do like "srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv" they show a progress bar but it is not moving, no ETA either. The only information that is shown active is the amount of time the command takes. So there is progress but nothing like I'm looking for. It just tells me how much time |
| 01:07.17 | losgb1 | the command is currently taking. |
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| 01:08.06 | mrkramps | afaik you have to add some commandline options to make pv show something |
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| 01:10.25 | losgb1 | mrkramps Hi. Yeah, the jist of it is that it interacts between two commands and shows the progress. I tried copying a file and it showed the progress as it was doing it, so what I expect it to do. (the command was something like "pv ./Desktop/file > ./Downloads/file") |
| 01:10.29 | freem | !man pv |
| 01:10.30 | dpkg | man pv is probably at http://manpages.debian.org/pv where you can view many Debian man pages. Ask me about <docs> <dmp> <grounding> <search>. |
| 01:10.51 | mrkramps | pv works pretty much like cat iirc |
| 01:11.16 | mrkramps | so i am not sure it will work with rm at all |
| 01:12.16 | losgb1 | mrkramps Well it works with rm but since I am not trying to pipe it or use it within two commands it doesn't behave as expected. |
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| 01:15.09 | freem | according to man (I didn't knew pv) you need to give pv the expected size of input on command line args |
| 01:15.23 | freem | if you pipe some input into it |
| 01:15.30 | Gerowen | When installing to a laptop with an NVME optane drive, what's the recommended way to install? Set the larger drive as the target drive? Will the RAID/Optane settings in the BIOS ensure that the optane drive continues working properly? Can I ignore the optane drive altogether and just boot from the larger SATA SSD? |
| 01:15.33 | freem | otherwise should dothe job |
| 01:16.52 | losgb1 | freem Yeah, I saw that, I think it's with flag -s But the idea is to implement it within a script. So the idea of giving it the size of the file is not feasible, or unpleasant. Even if I just used it casually it would be a hassle. |
| 01:17.07 | mrkramps | losgb1, https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/255190/is-it-possible-to-determine-the-progress-of-an-rm-command |
| 01:17.26 | losgb1 | I mean there would be a way to extract the file size and feed it to the command line and have the command act on that but that seems a bit too much. |
| 01:18.15 | losgb1 | mrkramps Yeah, i saw that one. I tried what the guy does with pv but still it only gave me a progress bar with no ETA and just a timer. |
| 01:20.36 | losgb1 | mrkramps And after that it deals with directories and files. I am trying, in most cases, to delete one file. I don't know if it would work with numerous files inside a single directory (as with the file number count) but I don't see it being the solution. It has to work for single files as well as multiple files. |
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| 01:37.54 | mrkramps | losgb1, maybe 'srm FILE(S) & pv -d $!' might work |
| 01:40.47 | losgb1 | mrkramps Nah. I don't know what "$!" refers to, and apparently the option -d gives me the file PID. But it only shows a progress bar non-active and a time counter no ETA (juste like "srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv") |
| 01:41.34 | mrkramps | losgb1, '$!' just gets the pid of the former process |
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| 01:41.46 | mrkramps | like the pid of srm in this case |
| 01:41.55 | mrkramps | but yeah, does not help either |
| 01:42.59 | losgb1 | mrkramps Ok. I tried piping "echo $1" or "echo $@" but I couldn't get any result. It would just return a line and give no more information to the command. Like "pv ./Desktop/test | srm -lr ./Desktop/test | echo $1/@" |
| 01:43.56 | f8e4 | folks: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=833508 |
| 01:43.57 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/833508 in xbacklight (forwarded, fixed-upstream): «xbacklight reports "No outputs have backlight property"»; severity: important; opened: 2016-08-05; last modified: 2018-12-17. |
| 01:44.02 | f8e4 | i still get this bug |
| 01:44.06 | losgb1 | What I wanted to do was echo the first command so that it would show active progress, since when I cancel the command with ctrl+c it gives me the necessary information, but obviously, no progress. |
| 01:44.17 | f8e4 | judd: what is wrong? |
| 01:44.43 | mrkramps | f8e4, you're talking to a bot |
| 01:45.48 | f8e4 | mmh he just needs a little ai in his coffee y know |
| 01:46.16 | f8e4 | but either way; how this pops up its 2020 |
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| 01:50.25 | f8e4 | mrkramps what would y suggest? touch # /etc/X11/xorg.conf .. ? |
| 01:50.50 | mrkramps | sure, go ahead |
| 01:51.03 | mrkramps | i have no idea what you are talking about, but just do it |
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| 01:52.01 | freem | mrkramps: if you try to use pipes and shell, maybe you should do `man dash` and read that a bit |
| 01:53.16 | mrkramps | freem, it is more like losgb1's issue, but it is less about the piping than about hat pv and rm are working |
| 01:53.28 | losgb1 | freem What mrkramps said |
| 01:53.40 | mrkramps | s/hat/how/ |
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| 01:58.00 | freem | pv probably looks at how many bytes are in input file, or if stdin, how many are provided as cmdline |
| 01:58.58 | freem | thus, for a rm, you should start listing files you need to count, and change each name to a single byte, pipe that to wc -c I guess, and give that number thru a var to pv as arg |
| 01:59.03 | losgb1 | freem pv knows the byte size and can therefore give you an eta |
| 01:59.26 | freem | rm needs to give some info, too, dunno about this |
| 01:59.37 | freem | probably need some work there too |
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| 02:01.00 | losgb1 | freem "thus, for a rm, you should start listing files you need to count, and change each name to a single byte, pipe that to wc -c I guess, and give that number thru a var to pv as arg" Do you have a command handy ? |
| 02:02.10 | freem | hum... I could give something, yes. What do you thing about: "NBFILES=$(find ${pattern} -print '.')" ? |
| 02:02.30 | freem | ah sorry |
| 02:02.38 | freem | hum... I could give something, yes. What do you thing about: "NBFILES=$(find ${pattern} -print '.' | wc -c )" ? |
| 02:03.02 | freem | then you can use "pv $NBFILES" in the pipe |
| 02:03.05 | losgb1 | How would I integrate it to a srm command ? (srm works the same as rm, options included) |
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| 02:03.25 | losgb1 | I would have to be inside a directory with a number of files though ? |
| 02:03.29 | mrkramps | to get a proper ETA for pv you'd need the file sizes |
| 02:03.47 | losgb1 | mrkramps Yeah. |
| 02:04.16 | mrkramps | which the command 'du' will do just fine btw |
| 02:04.36 | freem | you'd need to change srm's output |
| 02:04.38 | losgb1 | I have tried using du, as per the link given, but still, no cigar. |
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| 02:05.34 | freem | I think, you would need to change srm's output so that it would only print 1 byte as output per file deleted |
| 02:05.36 | alexrelis[m] | Would it be safe to use Debian Sid as a daily driver if you used btrfs and made snapshots to roll back to in case anything goes wrong? |
| 02:05.39 | freem | !man srm |
| 02:05.39 | dpkg | man srm is probably at http://manpages.debian.org/srm where you can view many Debian man pages. Ask me about <docs> <dmp> <grounding> <search>. |
| 02:06.05 | freem | oh... ok, this is not just rm now |
| 02:06.47 | losgb1 | freem Nah, it's not just rm, but it works like it. It wipes with zeros and stuff to delete files "securely". It's a more agressive rm. |
| 02:07.05 | freem | lol |
| 02:07.52 | freem | I'd say, have it print the names of files it have deleted when it finished it, then, pipe it to, like, "sed 's/^.*$/./'" and that should do the job |
| 02:07.56 | mrkramps | i do not think it is possible to get the ETA based on file sizes at all |
| 02:08.03 | losgb1 | I mean it can take a long time if you don't give it a -l or -ll, it wipes with zeros 24 times I believe if you don't issue thoes options. |
| 02:08.08 | mrkramps | neither with rm nor srm |
| 02:08.21 | freem | you understand that "secure rm" is really depending on medium, though? |
| 02:08.58 | freem | maybe with srm -v ? |
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| 02:09.05 | freem | it says it's verbose, so, maybe? |
| 02:10.04 | ectospasm | rm will depend on the filesystem, and how it handles file deletes. A large file may be deleted quickly by removing all the references to the inode, but the file is still there. |
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| 02:10.20 | ectospasm | srm or shred will overwrite the file |
| 02:10.27 | losgb1 | when i cancel out "pv ./Desktop/test | srm -lr ./Desktop/test" this is what I get -> C64.0KiB 0:00:01 [63.5KiB/s] [> ] 0% ETA 4:33:03 |
| 02:10.33 | losgb1 | With an ETA, apparently. |
| 02:10.37 | freem | it also depends on the hardware |
| 02:11.18 | losgb1 | freem I tried issuing -v, it didn't help. It gave me this "Using /dev/urandom for random input.Wipe mode is insecure (two passes [0xff/random])Wiping ./Desktop/test" |
| 02:11.21 | freem | SSD disks, for example, will try hard to have same usage over all storage |
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| 02:11.41 | freem | then you will probably needto do some loop |
| 02:12.01 | losgb1 | freem ?? |
| 02:12.03 | freem | like, for i in $(find); do echo .; rm $i; done | bla |
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| 02:13.47 | losgb1 | Basically, the script I have is this -> delete() {if [ "$1" != "" ]; then for i in "$@"; do srm -lr "$i" doneelse if echo "You must input at least one argument"; then false fifi} |
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| 02:15.11 | ectospasm | you are missing semicolons there |
| 02:15.41 | losgb1 | I mean the script gets formatted to a single line |
| 02:15.45 | losgb1 | Where ? |
| 02:15.59 | losgb1 | It works without fail. |
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| 02:16.20 | freem | oh, for a start... |
| 02:16.25 | ectospasm | doneelse, fifif looks like parse errors to me |
| 02:16.31 | ectospasm | sorry, fifi |
| 02:16.44 | ectospasm | Now, if you had newlines in there in practice, that's different. |
| 02:16.46 | freem | I'd suggest you to use '${var:?"error message}' the 1st time you use a variable |
| 02:16.55 | losgb1 | That's the irc, these are one separate lines |
| 02:16.57 | ectospasm | I hate variable brace expansions |
| 02:17.17 | losgb1 | It gives debu info to stdout ? |
| 02:17.19 | tomreyn | the webchat joins lines |
| 02:17.22 | losgb1 | *debug |
| 02:17.35 | alexrelis[m] | Would it be safe to use Debian Sid as a daily driver if you used btrfs and made snapshots to roll back to in case anything goes wrong? |
| 02:17.52 | ectospasm | I wish Bash/Zsh had mnemonics for those variable expansions, I can never remember what any of them do. |
| 02:18.00 | mrkramps | alexrelis[m], at home maybe, but don't try that in space |
| 02:19.07 | ectospasm | alexrelis[m]: sid can be quite unstable. Some dear program may not work for a long time while the developers figure out their next moves for its dependencies. |
| 02:19.15 | freem | alexrelis[m]: and how do your system will know it should rollback? |
| 02:19.56 | ectospasm | freem: it'd be a manual process, assuming it's not so broken you can't roll back manually |
| 02:20.07 | alexrelis[m] | freem: Well I heard with btrfs I could just have it so that if an update breaks something, I can go back to the previous snapshot. |
| 02:20.12 | ectospasm | But, that's where rescue ISOs come in. |
| 02:20.31 | freem | well, add busybox-static to your install list, and learn to use it before things fall appart, and you'd be able to repair anything : |
| 02:20.32 | freem | :) |
| 02:20.36 | alexrelis[m] | And I heard there is a way to configure Grub to make entries of your previous snapshots. |
| 02:21.33 | ectospasm | alexrelis[m]: you have to really think about how you layout your subvolumes for that. |
| 02:21.55 | ectospasm | Note that Btrfs snapshots don't contain subvolumes |
| 02:22.42 | ectospasm | So you have /subvol1/subvol2, your snapshot of /subvol1 won't contain subvol2 |
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| 02:30.12 | alexrelis[m] | ectospasm: Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding how btrfs works but wouldn't I be able to just make a subvolume for / and another for /home and create a snapshot for / everytime I make changes to it? |
| 02:30.42 | ectospasm | I use Btrfs snapshots to backup to the cloud (Backblaze). So, I create a read-only snapshot of my home directory (with thinks like ~/.cache and ~/src as subvolumes, so they don't get included in the snapshot) |
| 02:30.59 | ectospasm | alexrelis[m]: you could do that, sure. |
| 02:31.15 | ectospasm | But I wouldn't do that with Debian sid. |
| 02:32.13 | ectospasm | And you really shouldn't be using Btrfs unless you're running the latest kernel, which you won't get from backports. |
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| 02:34.40 | palimaar | @s |
| 02:35.47 | dvs | !s |
| 02:35.48 | dpkg | it has been said that s is a lot of things. It used to say .s is for ASM files, btw :D |
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| 02:59.08 | losgb1 | !man shred |
| 02:59.08 | dpkg | man shred is probably at http://manpages.debian.org/shred where you can view many Debian man pages. Ask me about <docs> <dmp> <grounding> <search>. |
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| 03:05.22 | freem | ain't shread a command to destroy a file by putting random values on disk where the file was? |
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| 03:05.40 | mrkramps | yep |
| 03:06.06 | mrkramps | or the whole device |
| 03:06.35 | losgb1 | Just testing |
| 03:06.57 | losgb1 | I can get a percentage of file deletion (or whatever it does) with the -v option |
| 03:07.05 | losgb1 | but it gives a lot of output and looks quite ugly |
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| 03:07.52 | freem | may I ask, what type of device are you intending to use? |
| 03:08.03 | losgb1 | laptopt |
| 03:08.07 | freem | mechanical disk or ssd? |
| 03:08.12 | losgb1 | ssd |
| 03:08.17 | freem | hum |
| 03:08.31 | losgb1 | basically just trying to add a progress bar to srm |
| 03:08.46 | losgb1 | or any other deal that could work, but I'd like to do it with srm and pv |
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| 03:09.03 | losgb1 | piping pv to shred just gives the timer |
| 03:09.05 | freem | you will have a problem here, since... well, ssd have a firmware which moves writes so that the "disk" is used equally |
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| 03:09.11 | ectospasm | can you send SIGUSR1 or something to srm to make it spit out progress? Like dd does? |
| 03:09.14 | freem | or so I believe |
| 03:09.21 | losgb1 | didn't try |
| 03:09.36 | losgb1 | How would you do it ? ectospasm |
| 03:09.38 | mrkramps | secure delte on SSDs is a bit more tricky than on HDD |
| 03:10.10 | losgb1 | I mean, I don't want to circumvent goverment or anything. Just rm seemed a little flimsly |
| 03:10.13 | ectospasm | losgb1: `kill -USR1 $(pidof srm)` |
| 03:10.37 | losgb1 | so using srm, but honestly no trying to throw off anybody, just trying to delete files with more security |
| 03:10.42 | losgb1 | thanks ectospasm |
| 03:11.06 | ectospasm | I have no idea if that will work |
| 03:11.17 | losgb1 | ectospasm do i put arguments after srm in that command ? |
| 03:11.30 | ectospasm | you shouldn't need to |
| 03:11.36 | losgb1 | like 'kill -USR1 $(pidof srm ./Desktop/test)' |
| 03:11.37 | ectospasm | Actually, don't |
| 03:11.37 | freem | mrkramps: yep. Do you have an idea about how to achieve this? I don't. |
| 03:11.43 | losgb1 | Ok. |
| 03:11.55 | losgb1 | So how do I delete with SIGUSR 1 ? |
| 03:12.08 | mrkramps | freem, triggering a secure erase on firmware side |
| 03:12.13 | ectospasm | No, SIGUSR1 is a signal, like SIGTERM or SIGKILL |
| 03:12.14 | freem | dpkg signal 7 |
| 03:12.15 | dpkg | bugger all, i dunno, freem |
| 03:12.19 | freem | dpkg man signal 7 |
| 03:12.19 | dpkg | man signal 7 is probably at http://manpages.debian.org/signal/7 , where you can view many Debian man pages. Ask me about <docs> <dmp> <grounding> <search>. |
| 03:12.39 | freem | hrm... I need to learn how to use dpkg bot |
| 03:12.40 | ectospasm | I never remember which one is USR1 |
| 03:12.47 | ectospasm | TERM is 15, KILL is 9 |
| 03:12.53 | freem | kill -USR1 $(pidof target) |
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| 03:13.03 | ectospasm | freem: which is what I said. |
| 03:13.17 | ectospasm | But I don't know if srm will respond the way he wants |
| 03:13.29 | freem | yes, but then, why do you want to remember the number? |
| 03:13.43 | ectospasm | freem: I don't usually need to remember the number |
| 03:13.49 | freem | oh, sorry then |
| 03:13.58 | rr123 | debian kernel has a few hundred MBs for /lib/modules, good for hardware compatibility, too large for cloud virtual machines, is there any cloud-kernel for debian? |
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| 03:14.37 | losgb1 | SO do I pipe it ? |
| 03:14.46 | losgb1 | kill -USR1 * |
| 03:15.25 | freem | rr123: in aptitude, start a search (/ key), write '^linux-image' and browse |
| 03:16.07 | ectospasm | losgb1: run your srm command, in another terminal (or backgrounded with & at the end), run `kill -USR1 $(pidof srm). |
| 03:16.24 | ectospasm | You could always get the PID of srm through other means instead of pidof |
| 03:16.31 | losgb1 | Ok. |
| 03:17.11 | losgb1 | ectospasm But the idea is to use it in a script |
| 03:17.21 | losgb1 | I'm not sure but I don't think that would work |
| 03:17.44 | losgb1 | unless I can integrate -kill* into the script and have it output on stdout |
| 03:17.53 | rr123 | freem: thanks! i guess there is no way to select that at installation time, so I have to install the default kernel, then add this one and replace the default 'big' kernel? |
| 03:18.27 | rr123 | is there a tool to regenerate an installation iso(i.e. replace the default kernel with cloud kernel) |
| 03:18.28 | freem | rr123: exact |
| 03:18.37 | ectospasm | You can get it with $! after you run it in the background in your script, then loop until the process is no longer in the process table. |
| 03:18.43 | freem | I don't use the installed a lot, though, so I may be wrong |
| 03:18.51 | ectospasm | Still, I'd try it outside of the script to make sure srm behaves that way |
| 03:18.53 | ectospasm | It might not |
| 03:19.01 | ectospasm | getting USR1 might kill it entirely |
| 03:19.08 | losgb1 | Ok. |
| 03:19.16 | freem | rr123: I have built my own installation scripts, so I really can't help much about the default installed |
| 03:19.45 | losgb1 | ectospasm "You can get it with $! after you run it in the background in your script, then loop until the process is no longer in the process table." Any idea for a command ? |
| 03:20.05 | losgb1 | Like a on liner ? |
| 03:20.08 | rr123 | freem: thanks. i used to play with debootstrap and build small distro for myself, have not done that for years |
| 03:20.09 | losgb1 | *one |
| 03:20.29 | ectospasm | So, you're passing arguments to your script? $1, $2, $*, $@? |
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| 03:20.35 | losgb1 | Yeah |
| 03:20.37 | freem | debootstrap is how I install all my systems myself |
| 03:20.48 | losgb1 | Let me post it again |
| 03:20.58 | losgb1 | delete() {if [ "$1" != "" ]; then for i in "$@"; do srm -lr "$i" doneelse if echo "You must input at least one argument"; then false fifi} |
| 03:21.07 | rr123 | freem: trying to make the minimal openbox possible here for fun |
| 03:21.14 | ectospasm | pastebin that, it looks terrible on one line |
| 03:21.16 | losgb1 | As you can see I use $@ |
| 03:21.18 | losgb1 | ok |
| 03:21.22 | rr123 | so far it's 2GB or so, want to see if I can make it to 1GB |
| 03:22.08 | freem | rr123: now you speak! although I don't have uploaded my scripts yet |
| 03:22.21 | losgb1 | ectospasm https://pastebin.com/jiFdgZYb |
| 03:22.33 | freem | are you around here a lot? |
| 03:22.39 | ectospasm | so, for the srm line: `srm -lr "${i}" & PID_OF_SRM=$!; kill -USR1 ${PID_OF_SRM}` |
| 03:22.47 | losgb1 | ok |
| 03:23.01 | rr123 | https://lwn.net/Articles/733405/ |
| 03:23.01 | losgb1 | As is ? |
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| 03:23.54 | freem | I don't know a lot about the kernel, I still must learn it |
| 03:24.02 | freem | this, and the initramfs |
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| 03:24.13 | rr123 | freem: a quick test shows linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64 is 264M while linux-image-4.19.0-14-cloud-amd64 is 72MB, nice |
| 03:24.41 | freem | for the other aspects of minimal debians, without pro-oriented use, I think I'm good enough, with opiniated changes |
| 03:24.44 | dvs | 4.19.0-14? |
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| 03:24.54 | freem | rr123: thanks for info |
| 03:24.59 | dvs | ,v kernels |
| 03:25.00 | judd | No package named 'kernels' was found in amd64. |
| 03:25.06 | dvs | ,kernels |
| 03:25.07 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-rc6-686-pae (5.10~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 5.9.0-4-686-pae (5.9.11-1); bullseye: 5.9.0-4-686-pae (5.9.11-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.9.6-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-13-686-pae (4.19.160-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie-backports: |
| 03:25.08 | judd | 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
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| 03:25.52 | rr123 | as far as kernel goes, it should be able to get under 3MB instead of 72MB |
| 03:26.05 | rr123 | just built-in everything I need for the vm, nothing else |
| 03:26.30 | freem | I had troubles updating kernels on VMs, because they require around 500megs free disk to work |
| 03:26.33 | ectospasm | losgb1: before you start scripting it, make sure srm spits out progress when you send USR1 to it |
| 03:26.40 | ectospasm | All of this scripting is for naught if that doesn't work |
| 03:26.47 | freem | that's really a lot |
| 03:27.06 | losgb1 | ectospasm How do I do that ? |
| 03:27.10 | freem | that space is temp mostly, but still |
| 03:27.21 | losgb1 | Besides possible bugs, the script works. |
| 03:27.31 | rr123 | for clould kernel still the drivers takes up 66MB, e.g infiniband for vm? not needed at all, and yes, kernel for the cloud should be around 3MB instead of 72MB |
| 03:27.31 | sney | the actual buster kernel image is 5.1M, the initramfs is what's actually big. and initramfs size depends on configuration |
| 03:27.43 | losgb1 | I mean it deletes and all, I got confirmation from that. |
| 03:28.04 | ectospasm | losgb1: are you using an X.org or Wayland-based terminal emulator? Open up a new window or tab. If you're using GNU screen or tmux, open a new pane or window. Run srm in one, run the kill command in another |
| 03:28.06 | rr123 | sney: what's the point of initramfs if the drivers is pre-known |
| 03:28.47 | ectospasm | Or, in one shell run the srm command with ampersand at the end, when your shell returns run the kill pidof command |
| 03:28.49 | sney | there is an option for a 'targeted' initramfs, that only includes drivers relevant to the current system |
| 03:29.09 | losgb1 | ectospasm tried your commande as an alias -> test () {} but it failed, it gave me a pid and when I ls -l to verify if it had deleted gave me this Dec 12 02:29 'Unsaved Document 1'[1 plus files present at ./Desktop |
| 03:29.20 | losgb1 | ok |
| 03:29.32 | rr123 | initramfs used to preload some drivers for boot-up, I don't know why I need it at all on vm/cloud |
| 03:30.08 | losgb1 | * this -> [1]+ User defined signal 1 srm -lr "${i}" |
| 03:30.14 | rr123 | thinks there really should be a cloud oriented debian release, oh there might be a few somewhere already |
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| 03:30.50 | ectospasm | losgb1: that's the job number, not the PID |
| 03:30.56 | losgb1 | Ok. |
| 03:31.01 | ectospasm | You could `kill -USR1 %1` |
| 03:31.11 | sney | even on a vm, you'd need an initrd that has virtio etc in it so the kernel can find your root filesystem |
| 03:31.20 | sney | it's possible to get it down to the barebones for sure though |
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| 03:31.33 | losgb1 | So I run the srm command in one terminal then the kill command in another one ? And that sould give progress ? |
| 03:31.45 | rr123 | sney: the virtio preload makes sense, but that should be about it |
| 03:32.31 | freem | what is virtio? |
| 03:32.44 | freem | virtual I/O? |
| 03:32.44 | sney | so start reading 'man initramfs-tools' and anything it references, make your debian vm have the smallest initrd possible. the tools are there. |
| 03:32.54 | sney | freem: one common driver for virtualized disk and network devices |
| 03:32.59 | freem | ty |
| 03:33.00 | losgb1 | Tried 'kill -USR1 %1' and failed |
| 03:33.06 | losgb1 | I might be doing it wrong |
| 03:33.23 | losgb1 | But the endgame is to use it in the script I linked to. |
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| 03:33.29 | freem | rr123: if you manage to learn stuff and post it somewhere, would you be kind enough to ping me with a link?I'm really interested with thit topic |
| 03:33.35 | losgb1 | So I'm not sure that's the proper way to do it. |
| 03:33.37 | rr123 | https://wiki.debian.org/Cloud/SystemsComparison big guns have the cloud ones |
| 03:33.58 | losgb1 | Unless you can tell me how to integrate it in the script and have it show progress. |
| 03:34.26 | rr123 | freem: sure, if i go down that path that is, making distro smaller is always interesting to me as I am an embedded guy |
| 03:34.45 | ectospasm | losgb1: I don't know if that will give progress |
| 03:34.48 | mason | Embedded is a whole different world from what it used to be. |
| 03:34.54 | rr123 | runs openwrt which is a full blown non-X distro with 8MB storage |
| 03:35.05 | ectospasm | try it and see |
| 03:35.06 | losgb1 | ectospasm Yeah ... |
| 03:35.11 | losgb1 | I tried but failed |
| 03:35.20 | ectospasm | worst case it kills the command but it doesn't do what you want |
| 03:35.34 | freem | I still need to try openwrt |
| 03:35.35 | losgb1 | ahaha |
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| 03:35.51 | rr123 | if someone can make X11 smaller, I mean, 99% smaller |
| 03:36.00 | mason | Hm, busybox is packaged. I've never tried to make a minimal system with it, but it sounds like it'd be good to try. |
| 03:36.06 | ectospasm | freem: I hate busybox, so I got an Intel NUC with dual Gigabit NICs in it, I run Debian on it. Much happier now! |
| 03:36.11 | freem | rr123: how does openwrt manages it's packages when it's actually running? |
| 03:36.24 | rr123 | it uses opkg, similar to apt |
| 03:37.00 | mason | Is there a new kernel again? |
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| 03:38.04 | rr123 | with 16MB space you can run openwrt+flask(python) basically |
| 03:38.18 | rr123 | but, who runs python there, lua is the way to go |
| 03:38.24 | freem | ectospasm: that just... does not mean anything for me. Debian have busybox, for a start, and you don't say *why* you hate it |
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| 03:38.56 | ectospasm | freem: grep -P doesn't exist in every busybox implementation I've used. I need real grep. |
| 03:39.09 | rr123 | it doesn't matter, busybox is on par with sqlite3 as far as installation base goes, at least tens of millions i think |
| 03:39.14 | freem | dunno what the -P arg does anyway |
| 03:39.46 | ectospasm | freem: Perl regexes |
| 03:39.55 | ectospasm | At least with GNU grep |
| 03:40.03 | freem | oh |
| 03:40.12 | freem | so you don't want real grep, just gnu grep |
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| 03:40.13 | mason | I'm really curious now. I've got 4.9.0-14-amd64 where packages.debian.org shows linux-image-amd64 depending on linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64, and I don't see a kernel advisory... |
| 03:40.23 | rr123 | ectospasm: it has -F, -E, -e for patterns, more than enough for me |
| 03:40.29 | freem | oh, I walked into the troll, did I? |
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| 03:40.55 | ectospasm | well, on Debian GNU grep is the real grep. On BSD it's something different. |
| 03:41.25 | freem | real grep is the standard POSIX one. Neither bsd's nor debian's |
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| 03:42.05 | freem | if you say "grep", then it should be the standard one. Otherwise, you should say which grep you use. That's my opinion :) |
| 03:42.06 | ectospasm | POSIX is just a standard, it's too vague to be a real thing |
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| 03:42.36 | freem | C is just a standard, let's use extensions everywhere so that code is no longer portable. |
| 03:42.57 | mrkramps | rr123, there were Xvesa and tinyX which might habe been small enough |
| 03:43.12 | freem | I do consider portability, and thus standards, an important thing |
| 03:43.22 | rr123 | mrkramps: are those projects still alive? |
| 03:43.39 | rr123 | mrkramps: deep embedded GUI is done via SDL alike |
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| 03:43.51 | rr123 | higher end boards will just run android-modified for GUI |
| 03:44.13 | mrkramps | rr123, well ... tinycorelinux git says tinyX had no commits for 5 years ^^ |
| 03:44.21 | mason | Must be percolating out through the mirrors I guess...? |
| 03:44.31 | awal1 | if i compress a video file using ffmpeg 1 go will be x? |
| 03:44.48 | rr123 | tinycorelinux is fun to play with...tried it two months ago |
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| 03:45.04 | awal1 | i mean approximately 1 go become ? |
| 03:46.10 | mrkramps | rr123, Xvesa is still in TC's repository |
| 03:46.16 | awal1 | * gb |
| 03:46.48 | Deboirql | can someone hl me for science? |
| 03:46.58 | ectospasm | Deboirql: no |
| 03:47.14 | Deboirql | thanks :) |
| 03:47.22 | ectospasm | you're welcome! |
| 03:47.45 | freem | deep embedded, with SDL? |
| 03:48.08 | freem | what do SDL provides, that framebuffer does not, for embedded? |
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| 03:48.49 | mason | ignore my kernel ranting - I confused releases |
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| 03:50.16 | rr123 | freem: smaller size, consistent api, possible OpenGL stuff |
| 03:51.35 | freem | SDL is smaller than framebuffers? |
| 03:51.43 | freem | ok for opengl though |
| 03:52.10 | rr123 | without SDL or x-windows are you going to write to framebuffer pixel by pixel? |
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| 03:52.43 | black_13 | how do you build the opencv package from source with the debugging turned on |
| 03:52.44 | rr123 | you need something on top of that to leverage framebuffer, SDL2 turns out to be a small one |
| 03:53.21 | freem | rr123: well... cat /dev/urandom > /dev/fb0 ? |
| 03:53.25 | losgb1 | Okay calling it a night (nearly 5 am here) thanks for the help. See you. |
| 03:53.37 | freem | or, for what I did at work, mmap /dev/fb0 |
| 03:54.18 | rr123 | mouse, keyboard, touchscreen, a few menus, you need API and libraries to code them on top of fb |
| 03:56.15 | freem | framebuffer + libinput |
| 03:56.40 | freem | worked for me, but yeah, no opengl, because I didn't even tried |
| 03:56.52 | alexrelis[m] | I'm looking to get Virtualbox on Debian, but there doesn't seem to be Vbox in Debian Stable or Testing. There is a third party repo, but I heard that third party repos in Debian are not a good idea. What is the safest way for me to install Virtualbox on Debian? |
| 03:56.57 | freem | I should have used drm, which is more complex, and was overkill for the need |
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| 03:59.14 | freem | s/should/could/ |
| 03:59.33 | freem | rr123: you might be interested by this link: http://betteros.org |
| 03:59.38 | rr123 | freem: most of low-end GUI does not need opengl |
| 03:59.54 | freem | exactly what I was saying :) |
| 04:00.13 | awal1 | ,v virtualbox |
| 04:00.14 | judd | Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.1.16-dfsg-6 |
| 04:00.34 | rr123 | freem: fb + libinput, so you write all your own "widgets" |
| 04:00.43 | freem | yep |
| 04:00.58 | freem | same if you use SDL2 only though |
| 04:01.06 | rr123 | interesting, do you use QT at all |
| 04:01.12 | freem | and SDL2 non-X is, as they say, experimental |
| 04:01.20 | alexrelis[m] | awal1: What do you suggest I do? |
| 04:01.25 | freem | Aka: it does not work |
| 04:01.28 | sney | !virtualbox |
| 04:01.28 | dpkg | Oracle VM VirtualBox is <virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle, see https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox to install; we recommend <virt-manager> instead. http://www.virtualbox.org/ #vbox on irc.freenode.net. |
| 04:02.01 | rr123 | http://betteros.org/sw/index.php 404 Not found |
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| 04:02.34 | freem | nope, I went really low level that time, because I had emergency |
| 04:03.03 | freem | was the 3rd time one had to redo the fucking UI, others used 1st electronJS, then SDL2 |
| 04:03.11 | awal1 | alexrelis[m], i run unstable brach so i can use virtualbox, but for you , being in stable brach, i suggest you qemu-kvm, it is good |
| 04:03.26 | awal1 | *branch |
| 04:03.29 | alexrelis[m] | awal1: I actually use QEMU/KVM for my actual virtualization needs, but there is a specific program I need called GNS3 that requires Virtualbox to virtualize Cisco networking equipment. |
| 04:03.34 | freem | wrote shit code, and I had other stuff to do than having to fix bugs in some shitty lib, so I went back to good old direct access |
| 04:03.53 | freem | well, except for input, since I used libinput |
| 04:04.18 | awal1 | dpkg: frankendebian |
| 04:04.18 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 04:04.21 | alexrelis[m] | I'm torn between installing Debian Sid+btrfs or Fedora+btrfs for this purpose. |
| 04:04.28 | awal1 | alexrelis[m], ^up to you |
| 04:04.54 | freem | rr123: yes, I know, it seems to have problems since few months... |
| 04:04.56 | sney | alexrelis[m]: the packages from oracle are probably what you want, or just run bullseye and use the sid packages. |
| 04:05.12 | rr123 | freem: i actually never used libinput, is it light-weight? or does it have dependency on evdev/mtdev/udev even wayland compositors |
| 04:05.12 | freem | rr123: this ? http://betteros.org/tut/graphics1.php |
| 04:05.24 | freem | rr123: libinput is what is used by xorg |
| 04:05.24 | awal1 | vbox is not on stable so you get it from sid or use third party repo . not recommended but up to you |
| 04:05.29 | freem | and by wayland |
| 04:05.31 | freem | and by sdl2 |
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| 04:05.55 | freem | ah, no, sdl2 built for framebuffer uses someting which does not work |
| 04:06.03 | freem | otherwise it uses wayland or xorg stuff |
| 04:06.10 | awal1 | alexrelis[m], no much to say apart what i said |
| 04:06.52 | alexrelis[m] | awal1: Thanks to you and anyone else who helped me. |
| 04:06.52 | awal1 | apart vbox and qemu-kvm, there another 1 , i forgot the name |
| 04:06.55 | freem | I basically wrote a lib to use libinput and framebuffers |
| 04:06.58 | awal1 | but never tried it |
| 04:07.07 | freem | a young colleague used it to build the actual UI |
| 04:07.09 | awal1 | !virtualization |
| 04:07.10 | dpkg | For resources concerning the use of Debian as a host for virtual computers, or as a guest within a virtual computer, see http://wiki.debian.org/SystemVirtualization . Also ask me about <hyper-v>, <kvm>, <linux-vserver>, <lxc>, <openvz>, <pearpc>, <qemu>, <user mode linux>, <virtualbox>, <virtual pc>, <vmware>, <xen>, <xve>, <ksm>. |
| 04:07.14 | freem | rr123: ^ |
| 04:07.18 | awal1 | vmware, yeah |
| 04:07.20 | rr123 | i feel libinput needs an xorg backend(heavy), even xorg is running on top of fb |
| 04:07.27 | awal1 | but no idea about it |
| 04:07.40 | freem | libinput is *used* by xorg, it thus can't require xorg |
| 04:07.54 | awal1 | alexrelis[m], good luck (Y) |
| 04:07.57 | freem | xorg sits on DRM+libinput |
| 04:08.03 | freem | and not on FB+libinput |
| 04:08.04 | rr123 | make sense, not a GUI guy |
| 04:08.10 | freem | same |
| 04:08.19 | rr123 | in the old days xorg can run on fb |
| 04:08.27 | freem | writing libs is fun, writing graphics stuff is fun, but UI? damn it's boring :) |
| 04:08.32 | freem | yeah |
| 04:08.35 | freem | the old days : |
| 04:08.36 | freem | :) |
| 04:09.15 | freem | sorry, I was playing, not focused on discussion. Game ended, now I can answer better I think |
| 04:09.57 | freem | libinput was, AFAIK, writen to be a "driver" of xorg 1st and more importantly, wayland |
| 04:10.31 | rr123 | yes, so I never combined it with fb |
| 04:10.39 | freem | it's role is to take input from /dev/input and expose a C API which is actually usable without too much assle |
| 04:10.40 | rr123 | SDL has its own way to do inputs |
| 04:11.03 | freem | obviously, I only used the one-seat stuff |
| 04:11.51 | freem | for graphics, I basically included only /usr/include/linux/fb.h, which is... okay enough if you learned to work with vesa modes decades ago :) |
| 04:12.06 | rr123 | on embedded-linux-GUI side many chose android these days, removing its phone apps, but still it's very heavy |
| 04:12.07 | freem | basically, you write on screen as if it was memory |
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| 04:12.19 | freem | meh |
| 04:12.38 | freem | I have a computer running LXDE with less than 200 megs of ram |
| 04:12.50 | freem | I didn't choose FB+libinput because of memory |
| 04:13.16 | rr123 | why |
| 04:13.27 | freem | I choosed them because the screen was physically rotated one way, and the... huh... touchscreen (which only does input) was rotated the other way |
| 04:13.34 | rr123 | just built libinput with its dependencies under openwrt, it's 200KB in total |
| 04:13.39 | freem | working on that with Xorg was overly complex |
| 04:14.00 | freem | it was stuff sent hundreds of kilometers away of us, mind you |
| 04:14.23 | freem | I was working with debian |
| 04:14.51 | freem | I'm not a sysadmin, I built something as reliable as possible with what I knew. Was a lot better after than before |
| 04:15.18 | freem | it also gave me the will to learn more about sysadmin stuff, tbh |
| 04:15.29 | alexrelis[m] | It looks like Debian Fasttrack is a work-in-progress feature that will allow packages that can only exist in Sid to be backported to Debian stable! |
| 04:15.48 | freem | I now want to stop writing C/C++ code and start administering systems |
| 04:16.10 | rr123 | a while ago it's said framebuffer will go away from kernel, as Linux foundation where Linus works are all funded by big companies, who do not give embedded field a shit |
| 04:16.28 | freem | well, debian 10 still have it :) |
| 04:16.37 | rr123 | freem: SRE and the like is highly sought after these days, but I don't like the oncall part of sysadmin |
| 04:16.49 | freem | SRE? |
| 04:16.52 | rr123 | i.e. you're called mid-night because some server down or dns failures, not fun to me |
| 04:17.01 | rr123 | SRE site reliability engineer |
| 04:17.04 | freem | I'd be okay with that |
| 04:17.20 | ectospasm | Depends on your on call schedule |
| 04:17.29 | ectospasm | And how often alerts come in |
| 04:17.40 | freem | as long as I don't have to write disgusting code because emergency is the norm |
| 04:18.00 | ectospasm | if you call shell scripting "emergency code" |
| 04:18.06 | rr123 | you might encouter more 'real' emergency as a sysadmin guy |
| 04:18.06 | freem | well |
| 04:18.22 | freem | then write that shell code in C++, and you'll understand my suffering |
| 04:18.26 | rr123 | i mean, when your server impact thousands of people or even more, you're god there |
| 04:18.31 | freem | yeah |
| 04:18.32 | freem | good |
| 04:18.42 | freem | at least it's real emergency, not some bullshit |
| 04:19.10 | rr123 | heard two sysadmin guys are fired due to fat fingers with 'rm -rf /' |
| 04:19.11 | freem | and if that makes me think "fuck it" then I'll leave IT and keep it for my fun |
| 04:19.38 | ectospasm | rr123: that's why you should never use absolute paths with rm |
| 04:19.42 | rr123 | the real valuable sysadmin these days are DevOps, in addition to SRE |
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| 04:20.00 | ectospasm | DevOps is a process, not a position |
| 04:20.03 | freem | define devops |
| 04:20.10 | freem | oh, damn too slow |
| 04:20.25 | rr123 | DevOps has no definition but guess what, it is a job category |
| 04:20.26 | *** join/#debian Antioch0 (~Antioch@h175-177-044-119.catv02.itscom.jp) |
| 04:20.37 | freem | still, I can't understand what it means |
| 04:20.46 | freem | it's buzzword imo, that's all it is |
| 04:21.01 | rr123 | not really |
| 04:21.28 | freem | so teach me. I really need to learn that kind of stuff |
| 04:21.35 | rr123 | the company i worked for has a smart DevOps-guy, not the traditional IT guy who only knows how to do windows re-"imaging" |
| 04:22.13 | rr123 | he actually sets up all the git, code-review, test-run, build vm machines, toolchains, etc |
| 04:22.26 | ectospasm | DevOps is an entire department at my employer. They're all smart. |
| 04:22.52 | freem | so, they are the ops of the devs? |
| 04:23.10 | rr123 | a beginner developer just run a script and start coding, magically its code can be reviewed/tested/submitted/released so the coder can really just foucs on coding |
| 04:23.29 | freem | and I say this because I consider ops should help, and devs should also help... hum, confusing saying |
| 04:24.13 | freem | so, a devops sets the infra for devs then |
| 04:24.22 | freem | ? |
| 04:24.24 | rr123 | that's close yes |
| 04:24.33 | freem | but then, what's the difference with an actual ops? |
| 04:24.52 | freem | devops knows dev's job? |
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| 04:25.06 | rr123 | devops in my case he was a developer with good sysadmin skills |
| 04:25.22 | rr123 | he actually code himself, he probably earned double of his peers |
| 04:25.38 | freem | could you say more about what are "good sysadmin skills"? |
| 04:25.39 | rr123 | unlike a legacy sysadmin who only does perl for life |
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| 04:26.33 | freem | because I may have actually been the only "ops" at work, while still coding, making me a "devops" but my ops skills are shit |
| 04:27.13 | freem | I am trying to remember how an AD work, and how to adapt that to a set of VM working on debian with ldap |
| 04:27.17 | *** join/#debian vptr (~vptr@unaffiliated/vptr) |
| 04:27.42 | rr123 | you may also need do lots of windows related setups, that's another story |
| 04:27.44 | freem | still... I did setup various stuff, that I know are shitty quality |
| 04:27.49 | derpadmin | nobody remembers how ad works |
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| 04:27.57 | derpadmin | something something kerberos ticket port 88 |
| 04:28.02 | rr123 | i have not used windows(maybe 2 days per year the most) for decades |
| 04:28.21 | rr123 | the 2-days is either helping someone or do my tax, which nowadays can run in the cloud |
| 04:28.29 | derpadmin | you can check #reddit-sysadmin |
| 04:28.30 | freem | how big is your employer? |
| 04:28.35 | derpadmin | these poor souls use windows |
| 04:29.00 | freem | not in feet or pounds or metters or kilograms, mind you, but in number of employed people? |
| 04:29.05 | rr123 | freem: from 150K to 5000 |
| 04:29.09 | freem | I see |
| 04:29.25 | freem | I never worked in places with more than 100 employees |
| 04:29.42 | freem | last job, with my "admin" stuff, we were less than 10 |
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| 04:30.02 | rr123 | for small company(like 10 people) i feel redmine was good, nowadays github will help a lot |
| 04:30.09 | freem | there, being able to code and to admin and to manage emergencies is not a specific job, it's the norm |
| 04:30.24 | freem | meh |
| 04:30.28 | freem | github is crap |
| 04:30.30 | rr123 | startup requires you do whatever |
| 04:30.47 | rr123 | i use gitea |
| 04:30.48 | freem | non-tech people won't find their way there |
| 04:31.03 | freem | and even some tech ones like we will hate it |
| 04:31.30 | rr123 | still is interested in fb+libinput, getting GUI work on small distro is always intriguing |
| 04:31.39 | vptr | what's a good way to debug video recording on obs, or just buster in general? When I record video, I see my CPU jump to ~30% on all 8 cores. I would expect it to use a lot less cpu. |
| 04:32.00 | freem | rr123: just ask something, and I'll help as much as possible |
| 04:32.17 | rr123 | any tutorials on the concept or demo code somewhere? |
| 04:32.23 | freem | or better, find me a job where you're my boss lol |
| 04:32.27 | rr123 | those corner cases are hard to google |
| 04:32.42 | freem | rr123: http://betteros.org/tut/graphics1.php |
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| 04:33.00 | freem | this one was really helpful for the framebuffer stuff |
| 04:33.19 | rr123 | bookmarked, thanks |
| 04:33.26 | freem | for libinput, I really just read the code: /usr/include/libinput.h |
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| 04:33.32 | rr123 | which country are you from |
| 04:33.39 | freem | france, but I can move :) |
| 04:33.52 | freem | tbh, I'd love to have a chance to move |
| 04:34.43 | freem | what kind of embedded stuff do you actually work on? |
| 04:34.55 | freem | I mean, the underlying computer |
| 04:35.07 | rr123 | used to be android, now openwrt |
| 04:35.22 | freem | my software code could run at around 8ms per frame |
| 04:35.35 | rr123 | i was a kernel guy for a few years, then moved up a bit at the framework, not yet to reach GUI layer |
| 04:35.58 | freem | 12ms when there was transparency... with a software rotation of 90°, on beaglebone blacks |
| 04:36.11 | freem | not impressive, but I'm still proud of tha |
| 04:36.25 | rr123 | BBB is a nice board, no idea about those 8ms performance per se :( |
| 04:36.38 | freem | well |
| 04:36.41 | freem | sorry |
| 04:36.55 | rr123 | TI started all the small board revolution, overtaken by RPI nowadays |
| 04:37.05 | freem | was not on bbb, but on an intel stuff, my bad |
| 04:37.13 | rr123 | companied by 100 chinese SBC vendors |
| 04:37.38 | freem | well, unlike RPI, BBB is 100% free AFAIK |
| 04:37.50 | freem | at least for soft specs |
| 04:38.11 | rr123 | TI and Freescale are the two most open-source-friendly chip vendors on earth |
| 04:38.28 | rr123 | it's said TI fading out and freescale was bought |
| 04:38.43 | rr123 | s/said/sad/ |
| 04:38.56 | freem | I wanted to play to move our graphics code on BBB, but boss never let me had any fun, just emergency after emergency, even when I told something would happen lots of month before, and was proposing solutions to fix it |
| 04:39.11 | freem | TI was bought? |
| 04:39.22 | rr123 | no freescale was |
| 04:39.24 | freem | oh, sorry, fades out... |
| 04:39.31 | freem | I don't know what is freescale |
| 04:39.33 | rr123 | TI out of ARM-CPU for the most part |
| 04:39.52 | rr123 | Freescale used to be motorola's semiconductor, now part of NXP |
| 04:39.59 | freem | oh, ok |
| 04:40.12 | rr123 | it makes powerpc ,nowadays like everyone else, it produces arm |
| 04:40.33 | freem | I'd love to do some real low level code someday (yeah, I know it contrasts with what I said earlier) |
| 04:41.11 | rr123 | for 10-person startup it's doomed to be emergency after emergency, as surviving is rule #1, no surprise to me, no wonder 95% startup will fail |
| 04:42.17 | rr123 | never been to Europe, how much percentage do you pay for income? also do you all have like 3 month vacations annually? |
| 04:42.43 | rr123 | in US it's about 2 weeks vacation and some people even find it's hard to take it |
| 04:43.26 | freem | 5 weeks vacation in france is the legal minimum |
| 04:43.32 | freem | it's also the norm |
| 04:44.09 | freem | and I believe france is one of the most worker-friendly countries? |
| 04:44.48 | freem | vacations in US... how are those enforced? |
| 04:45.07 | freem | I mean, is it just the boss which agrees to gives them, or law enforced? |
| 04:45.26 | dvs | freem: There are no law which mandate vacations in the U.S. |
| 04:45.35 | freem | as I though |
| 04:45.41 | dvs | t |
| 04:45.44 | freem | yep |
| 04:46.03 | freem | almost 6 a.m. here, fingers are a bit tired :) |
| 04:46.12 | dvs | o/ |
| 04:46.18 | freem | \o |
| 04:46.39 | rr123 | well, good morning then, have a nice sleep :) |
| 04:46.45 | freem | nope |
| 04:46.58 | freem | I don't intend to sleep tonight, it's almost dawn anyway |
| 04:47.25 | dvs | damned? |
| 04:47.29 | freem | (hum... except it's winter, so still have some time) |
| 04:47.32 | freem | nah |
| 04:47.58 | freem | I went back to parent's home because of covid and being alone etc |
| 04:48.07 | quadrathoch2 | wow i didn't know france had more vacations than germany ^^ |
| 04:48.14 | freem | problem is, only time I don't have them on me is night :) |
| 04:48.23 | rr123 | back to original subject, i'm surprised there is no debian derivative distro that geared towards to cloud installation meanwhile it's vendor neutural |
| 04:48.39 | freem | quadrathoch2: AFAIK in germany, syndicates are... shy |
| 04:49.19 | freem | rr123: what would a debian child need for that? |
| 04:49.31 | freem | specific builds of which package? |
| 04:49.41 | rr123 | europe seems very socialism to me, high taxes(good welfares), long vacations |
| 04:49.42 | freem | would that be a lot of those, or just kernel? |
| 04:49.49 | quadrathoch2 | freem i guess so, as french people like to riot ;) |
| 04:50.20 | freem | rr123: we are probably more socialists than USAs, indeed, and i think it's because we did some... fight, for it |
| 04:50.26 | rr123 | freem: a lean kernel with small initrd/initramfs, along with some essential packages via debootstrap |
| 04:50.52 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 just remind yourself. alot of countries have higher taxes, lower incomes, but at the end of the month there is still more money in the bank account as life is not as expensive |
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| 04:51.08 | freem | debootstrap is already able to do really minimal installs, that's what I use everytime, to avoid systemd hehe |
| 04:51.33 | rr123 | 350MB is the space i recall via debootstrap, that is, before the X shit kicks in |
| 04:51.41 | freem | taxes are also used to provide everyone with teaching |
| 04:51.51 | quadrathoch2 | health care :) |
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| 04:51.57 | freem | roads. |
| 04:52.27 | rr123 | will that make many people 'lazy'? |
| 04:52.30 | freem | rr123: maybe. I didn't measure |
| 04:52.53 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 depends on the country, but overall no |
| 04:53.11 | freem | i don't think we are lazy. If we were lazy in france, we would not have the money we have, right? |
| 04:53.30 | quadrathoch2 | freem just remind yourself that germany and france are kinda special in the eu |
| 04:53.41 | freem | we are moronics? |
| 04:53.54 | freem | oh true, forgot the UK left :) |
| 04:54.03 | quadrathoch2 | xD |
| 04:54.05 | rr123 | if i worked hard earn 100 paying 50 for tax and keep 50 in my own pocket, comparing to someone does not work still got welfare worth at 40, why should I work hard then |
| 04:54.31 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 why would you pay 50% taxes oO. (except you earn alot) |
| 04:54.34 | freem | because you have your numbers wrong, for example? |
| 04:55.11 | rr123 | canada is like paying 40% or so(if memory serves) |
| 04:55.14 | freem | there is also a notion of, helping the whole |
| 04:55.39 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 it really depends on how much money you earn. here nobody is exploiting the poor |
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| 04:55.53 | freem | huh... nope |
| 04:56.07 | freem | that's not completely true, but it's more true around here than in USAs |
| 04:56.41 | rr123 | Amazon/Faceboo/etc are essentially paying software engineers 250K a year plus stock options |
| 04:56.44 | freem | well, in france. I mean, in france, we try to have people which work honestly 8 hours a day able to live a decent life |
| 04:56.59 | rr123 | those with a bachelor degree and good leetcode skills that is |
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| 04:57.09 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 and that's why with such a job you should probably stay in the US |
| 04:57.11 | freem | *all* of the people working 8H per day. Not only the lazy ones. |
| 04:57.28 | rr123 | i'm talking about the above-average engineers, not outstanding ones, for those, their earning has no limit |
| 04:58.15 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 just to give you an example, here in germany after university, most engineers don't earn anything like 6 digits per year |
| 04:58.22 | quadrathoch2 | more like 50k |
| 04:58.32 | freem | your so beloved engineers can't do shit without people doing the actual assembly of pieces, cleaning up their screens, buiding their homes. |
| 04:58.36 | rr123 | converted to us dollars how much is that then |
| 04:58.44 | quadrathoch2 | 60k |
| 04:58.46 | freem | ah sorry |
| 04:59.00 | freem | forget what I said, it's misplaced. |
| 04:59.15 | rr123 | here for CS fresh out started at 70K i think, for good unversities(e.g. top 100 in CS) they can earn six figures |
| 04:59.44 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 at least here in germany, because managers don't earn as much, engineers can't earn more than managers |
| 04:59.53 | rr123 | freem: heard about mexican workers? they helped us to build a strong economy, many of them are hard working folks |
| 04:59.57 | freem | how much cash to spend when they have a problem, though? |
| 05:00.19 | rr123 | freem: are you kidding? |
| 05:00.24 | rr123 | Americans never save |
| 05:00.33 | freem | rr123: I don't doubt that, and I'm sure I was not fair, which is why I said "forget what I said, it's misplaced." |
| 05:01.17 | quadrathoch2 | rr123 welp, we have here the equivalent of mexians (germany had turks, austria had eastern europe countries like hungary, czech republic) france idk ^^ |
| 05:01.25 | freem | I really should not have said that, it just shows how much I don't know anything |
| 05:01.53 | freem | we have... had many countries, depends on timestamp |
| 05:02.21 | themill | So... back to Debian user support ... |
| 05:02.28 | freem | italians at a time, now it's more arabic peoples |
| 05:02.40 | freem | themill: sure?what whas the question? |
| 05:02.40 | rr123 | Rule #1 we don't save Rule #2 when we need more, we print |
| 05:02.47 | rr123 | :( |
| 05:03.09 | freem | rr123: I believe we have someone with an actual debian related question here :) |
| 05:03.28 | rr123 | oops, time to work |
| 05:03.29 | derpadmin | rule #3 your on your own in a pandemic |
| 05:03.33 | derpadmin | :( |
| 05:03.40 | freem | our exchange was fun, and OT, but now is a real stuff to do :) |
| 05:03.59 | freem | I don't wanna be banned for not helping :) |
| 05:04.11 | rr123 | :) |
| 05:04.25 | derpadmin | nobody helped me with my wake on lan |
| 05:04.30 | derpadmin | I rtfm'ed |
| 05:04.31 | derpadmin | :) |
| 05:04.41 | derpadmin | I was shutting down the pc like an idiot |
| 05:04.46 | derpadmin | instead of hibernating |
| 05:04.52 | derpadmin | wol works like a charm |
| 05:05.04 | derpadmin | on a br0 interface |
| 05:05.15 | freem | br0? |
| 05:05.21 | derpadmin | bridge in debian |
| 05:05.27 | freem | thx |
| 05:05.28 | derpadmin | you can call it waht you want |
| 05:05.30 | quadrathoch2 | derpadmin is wol nowadays working? |
| 05:05.31 | derpadmin | bridge0 |
| 05:05.36 | quadrathoch2 | reliably? |
| 05:05.49 | derpadmin | it has been for a while quadrathoch2 |
| 05:05.55 | freem | wait... |
| 05:06.00 | derpadmin | it is less debian and more bios |
| 05:06.20 | derpadmin | if your nic support iy |
| 05:06.21 | freem | derpadmin: your physical computer uses a bridged NIC for WoL? |
| 05:06.21 | derpadmin | it |
| 05:06.30 | derpadmin | freem, correct |
| 05:06.35 | freem | why? |
| 05:06.48 | freem | why not just use a normal eth NIC? |
| 05:07.08 | quadrathoch2 | derpadmin the last time I looked into it it didn't (but honestly that was like 2003) |
| 05:07.16 | freem | en.. wl..; whatever shit they are named now |
| 05:07.19 | derpadmin | the bridge was created so the vms can talk and be on the same networked than the host (bridge mode) |
| 05:07.37 | derpadmin | I have 2 vm |
| 05:07.37 | freem | haha! |
| 05:07.40 | rr123 | you still should use the real physical eth i think |
| 05:07.41 | derpadmin | a vpn |
| 05:07.49 | rr123 | i doublt br will react for magic packets |
| 05:07.53 | derpadmin | and a chat server of my own creation |
| 05:08.01 | rr123 | it's all about the ethernet driver |
| 05:08.08 | derpadmin | rr123, correct |
| 05:08.12 | rr123 | which can be tested with ethtool i think |
| 05:08.14 | derpadmin | not much to do with br |
| 05:08.20 | derpadmin | rr123, also correct |
| 05:08.30 | freem | thus my haha. |
| 05:08.43 | derpadmin | I just though br0 was creating issues |
| 05:09.01 | derpadmin | after a quick refresh on how wol works, I realized it had nothing to do |
| 05:09.18 | freem | do you WoL your vms too? |
| 05:09.21 | derpadmin | the confusing part is old tutorials telling it needs to be activated in the os |
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| 05:09.27 | derpadmin | freem, I do not |
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| 05:09.28 | freem | man, that'd be awesome |
| 05:09.33 | derpadmin | but that's interesting |
| 05:09.45 | derpadmin | but I have a command to spin them up... so why bother |
| 05:09.47 | freem | I actually never thought about even trying that |
| 05:09.55 | rr123 | sorry what's the problem then? |
| 05:09.58 | freem | meh, because it's fun |
| 05:10.04 | derpadmin | no probelm anymore |
| 05:10.07 | rr123 | i c |
| 05:10.08 | derpadmin | works like a charm |
| 05:10.20 | freem | anyway, yes, does the host starts on magic packet? |
| 05:10.24 | *** join/#debian mulot (~tyzef@43.231.30.141) |
| 05:10.27 | derpadmin | I can ssh in my router (openbsd) send a magic packet to my hibernating machine (debian) |
| 05:10.31 | derpadmin | and that's it |
| 05:10.39 | freem | so... what was it? |
| 05:10.42 | derpadmin | I tuned my ups scrips |
| 05:10.43 | freem | !next ? |
| 05:10.43 | dpkg | Another happy customer leaves the building. |
| 05:10.57 | freem | sorry, trying the bots :) |
| 05:11.07 | derpadmin | freem, coputer needs to hybernate, not shut down |
| 05:11.11 | derpadmin | *hibernate |
| 05:11.20 | rr123 | derpadmin: these days, some machine is equiped with wake-up-over-wireless(WoWLAN) |
| 05:11.35 | derpadmin | rr123, cool stuff |
| 05:11.40 | rr123 | again depends on wireless driver |
| 05:11.42 | freem | hum |
| 05:11.59 | derpadmin | let me try to send a magic packet to my tv (intel nuc debian) |
| 05:12.00 | derpadmin | lol |
| 05:12.07 | freem | you mean, if the computer is shutdown, WoL works, but not if computer is hibernate? |
| 05:12.23 | derpadmin | ah, I unplugged my wifi :( |
| 05:12.28 | freem | wise man |
| 05:12.32 | derpadmin | freem, correct |
| 05:12.38 | freem | for the wise man |
| 05:12.39 | freem | ? |
| 05:12.42 | derpadmin | no |
| 05:12.46 | derpadmin | the other way around |
| 05:12.47 | freem | :) |
| 05:13.01 | derpadmin | you cant bring it up if it is shutdown |
| 05:13.02 | freem | I never tried with hibernate state |
| 05:13.06 | rr123 | yes some PC can not wake up over hibernation/deep-sleep/whatever |
| 05:13.09 | freem | huh? |
| 05:13.22 | freem | "you cant bring it up if it is shutdown" s/shutdown/hibernate/ ? |
| 05:13.37 | rr123 | probably most PC can not be wake-up when they're in hiberation mode i feel |
| 05:13.48 | derpadmin | works for me |
| 05:13.49 | rr123 | which normally requires a keystroke or mouseclick |
| 05:14.06 | derpadmin | this is what I just (confusely) said |
| 05:14.16 | rr123 | unless you have kvm/ipmi or something, maybe new PC/devices are different |
| 05:14.35 | *** join/#debian vpelletier (~vincent@p8006072-ipngn42301marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 05:14.39 | freem | what is hibernate? It is, AFAIK, store state on disk, poweroff the computer (like, unplug any powersource), powerup it anew, boot it, and it retrieves the state |
| 05:14.41 | rr123 | runs a dell PC that is 7 years old and was worrying about some capacitor will blow up one day |
| 05:14.47 | derpadmin | /usr/bin/systemctl hibernate |
| 05:15.00 | rr123 | or systemctl suspend? |
| 05:15.10 | derpadmin | freem, I think it still draws a bit of power |
| 05:15.26 | freem | then, you mean suspend |
| 05:15.35 | rr123 | hibernate/suspend still requires main power i think, if you unplug, you're dead |
| 05:15.41 | freem | nope |
| 05:15.54 | rr123 | never tested that one, are you sure? |
| 05:16.00 | freem | hibernate requires a swap partition/file, because stuff is, roughly, dumped there |
| 05:16.09 | freem | 95% ? |
| 05:16.11 | rr123 | hmm |
| 05:16.28 | rr123 | if that's the case, resume should take longer then |
| 05:16.30 | freem | suspend is, "swap" is in ram, all components are shutdown |
| 05:16.49 | freem | hey, I kept 5% error margin :) |
| 05:16.55 | *** part/#debian vpelletier (~vincent@p8006072-ipngn42301marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 05:17.20 | freem | windows had better terms for that, and separated the files too |
| 05:17.26 | freem | at XP time |
| 05:17.38 | *** join/#debian hobbanero (~hobbanero@3.sub-174-250-18.myvzw.com) |
| 05:17.50 | rr123 | Hibernate writes everything to your hard drive and completely powers down the system. --- you're probably right, never did 'systemctl hibernate' myself, always do 'systemctl suspend' |
| 05:17.52 | derpadmin | freem ? all components shutdown? |
| 05:17.57 | freem | can't remember all files though... but I remember linux distros don't do that diff |
| 05:18.00 | derpadmin | ram requires electricity :) |
| 05:18.12 | freem | derpadmin: almost all components |
| 05:18.20 | rr123 | uspend puts everything into RAM, and shuts off pretty much everything but what's needed to maintain that memory, and detect startup triggers. |
| 05:18.26 | freem | ram, and motherboard, and some chipsets |
| 05:18.26 | rr123 | s/uspend/suspend/ |
| 05:18.49 | derpadmin | my use case was for an eventual power outage |
| 05:18.51 | freem | ty rr123 :) |
| 05:18.55 | derpadmin | leaving the country for a month |
| 05:19.08 | derpadmin | and want my ups to take over for as long as possible |
| 05:19.12 | freem | power outage? But it's not hibernate nor suspend here |
| 05:19.27 | freem | it's a shutdown state |
| 05:19.35 | derpadmin | hmm, let me show wou script on main boc |
| 05:19.38 | derpadmin | box |
| 05:19.53 | freem | then, on some pastebin service, please? |
| 05:19.57 | rr123 | wol is supposed to wake up a shutdown system |
| 05:20.04 | freem | exactly |
| 05:20.29 | rr123 | pretty much everything is powered down except the NIC has little power there |
| 05:20.29 | freem | you plan shutdowns, and you trigger shutups :) |
| 05:20.33 | derpadmin | https://termbin.com/fm2x |
| 05:20.49 | derpadmin | rr123, that is what I thought too |
| 05:21.00 | derpadmin | but a shutdown system did not woke up |
| 05:21.05 | derpadmin | an hibernated one did |
| 05:21.10 | freem | hum... |
| 05:21.16 | freem | same system, same config? |
| 05:21.26 | derpadmin | yes |
| 05:21.40 | freem | when is that script you sent executed? |
| 05:21.50 | derpadmin | every minutes via cron |
| 05:21.57 | freem | damn, whisky giving me hard times |
| 05:22.00 | freem | ouch |
| 05:22.04 | derpadmin | :D |
| 05:22.11 | freem | your phrase is worse than whysky |
| 05:22.45 | freem | may I... suggest... some basic things? |
| 05:22.51 | freem | UPS_PC=$(/usr/sbin/pwrstat -status | grep State | sed 's|State\.*||g' | tr -d [:space:]) |
| 05:23.09 | freem | UPS_PC=$(/usr/sbin/pwrstat -status | sed '/State/ s|State\.*||g' | tr -d [:space:]) |
| 05:23.32 | rr123 | actually how to wake up a locked-up/sleep/suspend/hibernate/power-off system is important these days when people work from home with some remote machines in the office |
| 05:23.36 | freem | huh... no... the end stuff should also be removed... I should not react, but think |
| 05:23.42 | derpadmin | root@homebase:~# /usr/sbin/pwrstat -status | grep State | sed 's|State\.*||g' | tr -d [:space:] |
| 05:23.43 | derpadmin | Normal |
| 05:24.13 | freem | grep foo | sed should merit death by wifi pending |
| 05:24.34 | derpadmin | the world runs on grep foo sed |
| 05:24.54 | freem | that's why there is so much wifi connection timeouting |
| 05:25.01 | derpadmin | :D |
| 05:25.16 | freem | oh damn, I didn't thought that thing could even make sense :) |
| 05:25.23 | freem | now I'm proud |
| 05:26.18 | freem | let me review it more, or maybe rr123 will do, being more awake than I am |
| 05:26.32 | derpadmin | it works like a charm |
| 05:26.47 | derpadmin | I pull the plug of the ups |
| 05:26.53 | *** join/#debian Ericounet (~Eric@2a01:e0a:d0:3c20:c095:6dfa:64ac:74c0) |
| 05:27.02 | derpadmin | pc went straight to hibernation |
| 05:27.02 | freem | yeah. It works (tm) |
| 05:27.21 | derpadmin | leaving a maximum of battery capacity for future recovery |
| 05:28.25 | freem | so, UPS's signal is sent and well received when computer is up |
| 05:28.44 | derpadmin | I have 2 ups |
| 05:28.48 | freem | what's the relation with WoL? |
| 05:29.02 | derpadmin | the script I showed you is on my mainbox |
| 05:29.08 | freem | huh... |
| 05:29.09 | freem | I'm lost |
| 05:29.30 | derpadmin | I also have a custom router I build that runs openbsd, this one is on another ups |
| 05:29.41 | derpadmin | and draws less power |
| 05:29.50 | freem | can I ask... what is, exactly, your setup? Please describe the physical connections and machines first |
| 05:29.55 | derpadmin | so router stay up during blackout |
| 05:30.12 | derpadmin | want a pastebin |
| 05:30.29 | freem | of a graphic? Sure |
| 05:30.36 | freem | or of a text describing it |
| 05:30.52 | freem | because I just dont understand what you have, your setup |
| 05:31.29 | freem | it may also be too much work, someone else might help without that |
| 05:31.52 | derpadmin | https://termbin.com/7uvw |
| 05:32.09 | derpadmin | see, main box and vms are on the left side |
| 05:32.24 | freem | wait |
| 05:32.32 | derpadmin | router is the device connected between the cloud and mainbox |
| 05:32.45 | freem | mainbox is left of cloud? |
| 05:32.58 | freem | no, router there |
| 05:33.05 | derpadmin | main box is absolute left |
| 05:33.12 | freem | ok |
| 05:33.15 | derpadmin | yes there is a router |
| 05:33.20 | derpadmin | between mainbox and cloud |
| 05:33.22 | *** join/#debian eruantiensaga (eruantiens@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/eruantiensaga) |
| 05:33.52 | *** join/#debian rf-n00b_ (rf-n00b@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rf-n00b) |
| 05:34.10 | freem | so, you need the router to be able to powerup the main, through internet |
| 05:34.16 | derpadmin | yes! |
| 05:34.27 | derpadmin | and it works.... |
| 05:34.37 | freem | but, this only works if, and only if, the main is powered down |
| 05:34.50 | freem | 1: not when hibernate |
| 05:34.59 | freem | 2: not when suspended |
| 05:35.08 | derpadmin | no, only works id main hibernates |
| 05:35.11 | derpadmin | *id |
| 05:35.13 | derpadmin | *if |
| 05:35.22 | freem | not with poweroff? |
| 05:35.30 | derpadmin | I don't know! |
| 05:35.39 | derpadmin | I tried poweroff at first |
| 05:35.41 | derpadmin | no joy |
| 05:35.50 | derpadmin | you can even see the comment in the script |
| 05:35.50 | rr123 | https://github.com/lvgl/lvgl just found this looks like a good GUI for embedded |
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| 05:36.09 | *** part/#debian ansimita (~ansimita@unaffiliated/ansimita) |
| 05:36.46 | freem | rr123: still on embedded stuff?I found something about SDL2 recently, I was in awe with |
| 05:36.55 | *** join/#debian catman370 (~catman@unaffiliated/catman370) |
| 05:37.50 | freem | rr123: https://github.com/skyjake/lagrange the lib behind this must be awesome: https://github.com/skyjake/lagrange |
| 05:38.02 | freem | derpadmin: I see the comment |
| 05:38.58 | freem | I just don't understand.... `poweroff` does not work, `pm-hibernate` works, `pm-suspend` do... what? |
| 05:39.33 | derpadmin | I haven't try anything other than shutdown -h now and /usr/bin/systemctl hibernate |
| 05:39.36 | freem | here, we are only interested in the physical stuff |
| 05:40.06 | freem | oh, sorry... |
| 05:40.12 | derpadmin | but hibernate is lower on power consumption than suspend I would assume |
| 05:40.19 | derpadmin | so it fits my use case |
| 05:40.33 | freem | indeed |
| 05:40.50 | freem | indeed, hibernate is lower than suspend: it's a shut off |
| 05:40.57 | rr123 | freem: interesting |
| 05:41.04 | derpadmin | hmm, there must be a difference |
| 05:41.26 | derpadmin | for the nic to respond to the magic packet on hibernate but not on shutdown |
| 05:41.28 | freem | the difference between hibernate and suspend is, ram is dumped to swap file |
| 05:41.40 | freem | yes |
| 05:41.49 | derpadmin | I mean difference between hibernate and poweroff |
| 05:41.51 | freem | here, my old knowledge may apply |
| 05:42.02 | freem | it's pre-systemd though |
| 05:42.20 | derpadmin | I miss systemV |
| 05:42.34 | derpadmin | even if writing the init scripts was a pain in the ass |
| 05:42.35 | freem | basically, you need to setup the NICs to that the WoL isenabled |
| 05:42.48 | derpadmin | it is enabled by default |
| 05:42.58 | freem | don't say that, or I might give you a choice |
| 05:42.59 | derpadmin | but yeah, I found that command |
| 05:43.27 | freem | one that would imply you to do actual sysadmin and have to understand your system |
| 05:43.35 | freem | (a tiny bit) |
| 05:43.50 | derpadmin | i'm a sysadmin |
| 05:43.53 | freem | well |
| 05:44.06 | freem | I'm a dev. I don't have your skills. |
| 05:44.20 | freem | still, why don't you use a daemontools's child? |
| 05:44.26 | derpadmin | can you make a service worker register and do a push notification? |
| 05:44.37 | freem | do a push? |
| 05:44.38 | derpadmin | I would sell my soul for help on this lol |
| 05:44.45 | derpadmin | but off topic for #debian |
| 05:44.51 | freem | describe a push? |
| 05:44.52 | freem | no |
| 05:44.57 | derpadmin | yes, a push notification on cellphones |
| 05:45.06 | trui | #debian-offtopic if you want some tax stats, rr123 :P |
| 05:45.09 | freem | debian buster have 3 alternatives in init |
| 05:45.11 | derpadmin | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PushManager/subscribe |
| 05:45.12 | derpadmin | this |
| 05:45.36 | freem | init is solved by: systemd-init, sysvinit or runit-init :) |
| 05:45.47 | freem | I'm not even off-topic here :D |
| 05:46.22 | freem | back to original problem: WoL |
| 05:46.34 | derpadmin | there is no problem per se since it works |
| 05:46.37 | derpadmin | but yeah |
| 05:46.43 | freem | I suspect your init system is not setting it correctly |
| 05:46.44 | *** join/#debian xnaas (~xnaas@unaffiliated/xnaas) |
| 05:46.53 | derpadmin | I was expectig it would work on shutdown too |
| 05:46.57 | xnaas | Bit of a strange question, probably...if I install "fonts-noto-color-emoji" I can see emoji just fine in my terminal (SSH'd into a headless Debian server), but...I can't type any emoji in. Or paste one in. Any emoji is seemingly lost...thoughts? |
| 05:47.00 | derpadmin | my init?? |
| 05:47.06 | freem | systemd. |
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| 05:47.26 | derpadmin | why does my systemd-init would not be set correctly? |
| 05:47.28 | freem | it may restore states at shutdown |
| 05:47.38 | derpadmin | aahhh |
| 05:47.47 | freem | just a supposition |
| 05:47.49 | derpadmin | the ether-wol : g on the interfaces |
| 05:47.55 | freem | yup |
| 05:47.57 | derpadmin | aahhh |
| 05:48.02 | derpadmin | that would make sense |
| 05:48.08 | freem | I may be wrong, too |
| 05:48.17 | derpadmin | well, it is a good guess |
| 05:48.24 | *** join/#debian puke (~vroom@217.138.252.62) |
| 05:48.26 | freem | and I can't help on how to fix it, neither |
| 05:49.06 | freem | well, it's a guess with lot of annoying questions to do before |
| 05:49.10 | derpadmin | but I could try the other systemctl commands |
| 05:49.14 | derpadmin | such as halt |
| 05:49.17 | freem | and still may be a bad one |
| 05:49.18 | derpadmin | and poweroff |
| 05:49.55 | Ede|Popede | xnaas: also pasting from a visible emoji in the terminal? |
| 05:49.55 | freem | hum |
| 05:50.17 | freem | what I understood is, hibernate works, not poweroffs? |
| 05:50.25 | derpadmin | correct |
| 05:50.35 | derpadmin | but I did the old school shutdown -h command |
| 05:50.40 | xnaas | Not exactly sure what you're asking, but, yeah, I can't paste an emoji either by copying from my host machine or even by highlighting one visible to me in the terminal |
| 05:51.05 | derpadmin | which probably translates to systemctl halt in the systemd world |
| 05:51.09 | freem | the old school shutdown command heh? Have you tried a which shutdown? |
| 05:51.24 | freem | then, ls -l $(which shutdown) |
| 05:51.25 | derpadmin | will point to systemd I assume |
| 05:51.31 | freem | yep |
| 05:51.40 | freem | because init is also responsible to extinct |
| 05:51.51 | freem | that's old school, too |
| 05:52.20 | freem | do you think I could qualify as sysadmin? :) |
| 05:52.27 | derpadmin | big time yes |
| 05:52.38 | Ede|Popede | xnaas: yep, the latter i meant. but since you're on SSH it's what i'd blame. midnight commander has checkboxes for the displayed character set (important when you go UTF-8 vs. latin-something) *AND* for "8-bit input". maybe the transport or the server while receiving the data messes it up somehow. |
| 05:52.43 | freem | thanks. I have hard times trusting me |
| 05:53.17 | xnaas | Ede|Popede I'm sure I'm making things more difficult by SSH'ing into my Debian box from a Windows machine... :) |
| 05:53.18 | freem | took 10 years to think I was a good C++ dev, and now I understand it, I want to go sysadmin :D |
| 05:53.34 | derpadmin | I found the man for init but not for extinct |
| 05:53.58 | derpadmin | c++ is an asset |
| 05:53.58 | Ede|Popede | xnaas: probably. are they still going with their insane proprietary CP's? |
| 05:54.21 | derpadmin | every programming language us |
| 05:54.21 | Ede|Popede | xnaas: can you try from WSL or a linux box? |
| 05:54.30 | freem | that's wrong |
| 05:54.37 | freem | programming languages are not assets |
| 05:55.05 | freem | paradigms are assets |
| 05:55.43 | freem | Bourne, SQL, C are important, yes. |
| 05:55.49 | derpadmin | well put |
| 05:56.06 | freem | but someone which can read/write java will learn C in no time, same for php or ruby |
| 05:56.26 | freem | bourne... is close to msdos really |
| 05:56.37 | freem | sql? I don't know |
| 05:57.05 | freem | lisp, haskell, all those functionnal languages? You know one, you can code in the others, too |
| 05:57.34 | freem | programming is not mastering syntax, it's handling ways of thinking |
| 05:57.53 | xnaas | Ede|Popede yeah, looks like Windows' native SSH implementation is to blame. I should've thought to try WSL2. ð |
| 05:57.59 | freem | otherwise, I suck, because I need my compiler to check for me :) |
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| 05:58.05 | derpadmin | hahahaha |
| 05:58.07 | derpadmin | same |
| 05:58.16 | xnaas | Ede|Popede thanks for being an available brain when mine is apparently asleep! |
| 05:58.20 | derpadmin | valgrind to the rescue |
| 05:58.25 | freem | nope |
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| 05:58.32 | rr123 | it's rewrite-everything-in-rust these days folks |
| 05:58.38 | freem | just: clang++ -Wall -Weverything -Werror |
| 05:58.41 | Ede|Popede | xnaas: sure, it's 7am here, so i'm pretty fresh ;) |
| 05:58.58 | derpadmin | 1:00am, going to hit the bed |
| 05:58.58 | xnaas | Ede|Popede almost midnight for me! ð± (been up since 6am) |
| 05:59.00 | freem | rr123: I've always fucked the fashion, and I'll continue to do so |
| 05:59.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1155] by debhelper |
| 05:59.05 | Ede|Popede | xnaas: just an addon question, how about putty? |
| 05:59.23 | xnaas | Never cared much for putty tbh. ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 05:59.33 | freem | xnaas: It's 7a.m for me, and I'm up since 10a.m |
| 05:59.52 | xnaas | hope you're going to bed soon, freem ;P |
| 05:59.59 | freem | haha good question |
| 06:00.06 | freem | not now clearly |
| 06:00.13 | xnaas | Soon⢠:) |
| 06:00.20 | rr123 | g++10 is probably better than clang++ for the first time since quite a while, -Weverything is a little aggressive i think |
| 06:00.21 | freem | also I have fun helping with WoL |
| 06:00.24 | Ede|Popede | xnaas: i think it's the only thing i ever used to connect from a windows box to linux. generally tried to avoid the tools microsoft packaged with their OSes xD |
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| 06:00.44 | freem | rr123: I *want* aggressive compilers |
| 06:00.57 | rr123 | rust rust rust |
| 06:00.58 | freem | I'm a damn C++ dev |
| 06:01.00 | freem | no |
| 06:01.00 | xnaas | Honestly, I've had pretty solid experiences with WSL. Native SSH has worked fine until...now I guess haha |
| 06:01.04 | freem | then I'd use ADA |
| 06:01.14 | freem | why Rust when there's ADA? |
| 06:01.21 | rr123 | good point |
| 06:01.34 | rr123 | where to hire ADA developers |
| 06:01.45 | xnaas | Americans with Disabilities Act? |
| 06:01.52 | freem | I never used ADA because I knew I could make C++ fascist |
| 06:02.02 | rr123 | Tesla uses android for car and ubuntu for rockets, who cares about ADA these days |
| 06:02.12 | rr123 | :) |
| 06:02.24 | freem | then, why would people care about rust, excetp for fashion? |
| 06:02.31 | Ede|Popede | maybe they wouldn't crash so often with ADA :P |
| 06:02.34 | *** join/#debian SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@p200300f12f1b9c00821f02fffeaf6272.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:02.52 | freem | I know both ADA and Rust only by reputation |
| 06:03.10 | freem | I see nothing I can't do with what I currently know |
| 06:03.22 | rr123 | with c why c++ is the question |
| 06:03.29 | trui | well, this is sufficiently offtopic. for the record, rr123, tax in Canada is 19% for 50k, 28% for 100k, 40% for 225k and it maxes out at 53% of your pay at 10 million |
| 06:03.36 | freem | and I know it well. Should I throw my knowledge for... something which have only 1 implementation? |
| 06:04.07 | freem | trui: wow. Nice digging man |
| 06:04.10 | trui | and that's in Quebec, which is the highest ;) |
| 06:04.21 | trui | there's a free tool online |
| 06:04.33 | freem | I mean, you really dig that backlog |
| 06:05.30 | freem | poor backlog, I feel sorry for it, the hole seems really deep, it probably hurt |
| 06:05.33 | rr123 | USA: 12% for 50K, 23% for 50-160K, 34% up to 500K, 37% after that |
| 06:06.47 | freem | what are consequences of "more taxes" for you, guys? |
| 06:06.57 | freem | s/guys/people/ |
| 06:06.58 | trui | when people throw numbers like 40% around, it's usually the marginal tax rate |
| 06:07.25 | trui | vs what you pay to the government of your total pay check |
| 06:07.46 | freem | VAT is also to consider |
| 06:07.49 | rr123 | trui: so federal tax seems better that I thought, what about state taxes and sales taxes |
| 06:07.58 | trui | well, unless you do earn 225k. then 40% is what you give |
| 06:08.09 | dax | pushes this whoole conversation in the direction of #debian-offtopic |
| 06:08.19 | freem | oops sorry |
| 06:08.25 | trui | fair enough, dax haha |
| 06:08.33 | trui | but yes, that chat exists |
| 06:09.01 | freem | for the record, I joined there on that mention |
| 06:09.20 | freem | (which is... off topic...) |
| 06:10.06 | trui | i'm waiting on rr123 |
| 06:10.17 | freem | huh? |
| 06:10.36 | trui | they're not there i dont think. |
| 06:10.42 | freem | try s234 maybe |
| 06:10.54 | freem | ss234 |
| 06:11.20 | freem | next chan, so, maybe incrementing stuff can work |
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| 09:53.14 | ngz | Hello. I just updated to testing and I am encountering keyboard issues. The more annoying one is that "ISO Level 3 Shift" has no affect on some parts (but not all) of the keyboard, e.g., in numbers row, starting from 5. I'm using French bépo layout, if that matters. Do you have an idea about what could be causing this? |
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| 09:59.48 | ngz | Interestingly, "xev" properly detects those key combinations, e.g., Level3+5 is properly associated to "multiply" sign, but, for example, in a terminal or in the default text editor, nothing is shown upon key press. |
| 10:00.27 | ngz | I meant "Level 3 + *" |
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| 10:02.41 | mrkramps | ngz, which desktop environment? |
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| 10:06.25 | dob1 | what is iso level 3 shift ? |
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| 10:13.00 | ngz | mrkramps: Gnome 3 (wayland) |
| 10:13.05 | ngz | dob1: AltGR |
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| 10:13.34 | ngz | dob1: It's a Level 3 modifier key |
| 10:13.39 | ngz | hence the name |
| 10:14.58 | ngz | As another data point, switching keyboard layout, e.g., using regular French layout instead of Bépo variant, has no effect on the problem. |
| 10:16.44 | mrkramps | ngz, "The Third Level Chooser is not automatically mapped to the Right Alt or AltGr key " |
| 10:17.03 | mrkramps | https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/RegionAndLanguage |
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| 10:21.55 | ngz | mrkramps: Well, actually, I mapped it to the PrtScr key, but xev does properly detect it and some characters work, e.g. pressing "Level 3 + u" in a terminal prints "ù", as expected in my Bépo layout. Note that the same key combination has no effect in gEdit, for some reason. |
| 10:22.11 | jelly | ngz: does it work in "xterm"? Perhaps native wayland apps behave differently from X11 apps like xev |
| 10:23.10 | ngz | jelly: yes, everything works in xterm, only partially in Gnome terminal, and not at all in gEdit. |
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| 10:23.47 | ngz | My gut feelings is that it is Wayland or IBus related somehow (I didn't tweak IBus) |
| 10:24.31 | jelly | the silly workaround might be to switch to Xorg-based session then instead of wayland, but this sounds like it's worth fixing before the release |
| 10:24.38 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 10:24.39 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 10:24.46 | jelly | ngz: try asking there as well |
| 10:25.00 | ngz | OK thank you. I'm headed there. |
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| 10:25.55 | jelly | has absolutely no clue about wayland or input methodology for wayland apps |
| 10:26.36 | mrkramps | it's weird |
| 10:26.52 | mrkramps | or rather it's still wip :) |
| 10:27.00 | ratrace | problem is .... nobody really does ... that's very worrysome... heading into tech we have no clues of |
| 10:27.30 | jelly | is there an equivalent of xev? Who knows |
| 10:31.33 | mrkramps | yeah - wev ;) |
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| 10:32.08 | mrkramps | sauce: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wayland-WEV-Events |
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| 10:38.51 | jelly | judd: file bin/wev --release bullseye |
| 10:38.52 | judd | Search for bin/wev in bullseye/amd64: wev: usr/bin/wev |
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| 10:39.46 | mrkramps | there's hope |
| 10:40.12 | ngz | I seem to fail using wev properly... |
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| 10:41.40 | no_gravity | Is there a way for Debian to wirelessly access the files on an Android device these days? |
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| 10:47.32 | ratrace | no_gravity: yes but I forgot the name of the Android APP that does that. Basically it becomes a file server over http(s) |
| 10:48.30 | no_gravity | ratrace: With an app you can do that of course. But that will put your balls in the fridge of some 16 year old script kiddie from the other side of the planet. |
| 10:48.47 | jelly | no_gravity: I like kdeconnect but its sftp server isn't 100% reliable |
| 10:49.08 | no_gravity | jelly: Is that in the Debian repos? |
| 10:49.23 | jelly | yes, and you need the app side on android as well |
| 10:49.35 | no_gravity | jelly: I don't use apps. |
| 10:49.44 | ratrace | no_gravity: you have conflicting requirements then |
| 10:49.49 | jelly | no soup for you |
| 10:49.58 | ratrace | NEXT! |
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| 10:52.42 | jelly | kdeconnect is not perfect but at least both ends are open source and by the same author |
| 10:53.55 | jelly | I use it mostly to show notifications on linux, and sometimes to pass URLs to and fro |
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| 10:54.38 | no_gravity | I wonder if I could cook something up with a web server on my laptop and then up/down loading files via chrome on Android. |
| 10:54.53 | no_gravity | Not sure if there is a convenient way to handle whole dirs like that. |
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| 10:56.27 | no_gravity | It might be possible: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4008406 |
| 10:57.13 | mrkramps | it's alive ... just 4 hours and all the coffee later ... my calculator finally finds its help files :S |
| 10:57.49 | no_gravity | mrkramps: I use this in my bashrc: calc() { php -r "echo $*;"; echo; }; |
| 10:58.15 | no_gravity | $ calc '3+4*2' |
| 10:58.16 | no_gravity | 11 |
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| 11:00.36 | mrkramps | no_gravity, nice solution but does not involve hacking Makefiles ... would have been far to convenient |
| 11:01.01 | no_gravity | mrkramps: Ok, I can understand that. |
| 11:01.43 | mrkramps | no_gravity, you could share files over nextcloud |
| 11:05.53 | no_gravity | mrkramps: I don't know nextcloud. How would I upload a directory from my android to my laptop that way? |
| 11:06.13 | mrkramps | nextcloud is kinda home cloud service |
| 11:06.49 | mrkramps | and they should have an app for android |
| 11:07.00 | no_gravity | mrkramps: I don't use apps. |
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| 11:07.48 | mrkramps | no_gravity, of course you can just use a browser to access the webinterface |
| 11:08.30 | no_gravity | mrkramps: Maybe. But I could just write that web interface myself, right? |
| 11:09.13 | mrkramps | well, you use php as a cli calculator ... so i guess you could do that ^^ |
| 11:09.20 | no_gravity | :) |
| 11:09.38 | no_gravity | I'm not sure yet how useful the browser APIs are in this regard. |
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| 11:13.30 | no_gravity | Seems possible but not completely trivial. |
| 11:13.52 | no_gravity | If I cannot find something (https://github.com/search?q=directory+upload) I will probably write a solution and open source it. |
| 11:14.56 | mrkramps | no_gravity, have a look at syncthing, seafile and such |
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| 11:15.56 | no_gravity | mrkramps: Syncthing seems to be a service. |
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| 11:16.14 | no_gravity | mrkramps: That involves an app. |
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| 11:16.43 | no_gravity | Seafile also seems to involve an app. |
| 11:17.00 | mrkramps | nope, those are optional |
| 11:17.03 | no_gravity | I just want to transfer files between my phone and my laptop without 3rd parties involved. |
| 11:17.12 | mrkramps | they all come with a web interface |
| 11:17.20 | no_gravity | A web based solution is probably 20 lines of code or so. |
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| 11:17.59 | unborn | no_gravity: perhaps Bluetooth or some php code |
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| 11:18.11 | unborn | if you run apache on your system |
| 11:18.16 | mrkramps | alternatively https://github.com/zombiezen/filedrop/ |
| 11:18.38 | no_gravity | unborn: Buetooth would be cool too. I have no idea what happens when I pair my phone and my laptop over bluetooth. Will it let me transfer directories? |
| 11:19.15 | unborn | no_gravity: nope.. you would have to zip them and send them as zip file.. most androids does this without issues |
| 11:19.23 | no_gravity | mrkramps: Not sure is filedrop supports directory upload. |
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| 11:19.57 | Spar7an | Hey, is this where I ask debian package related questions? |
| 11:20.03 | no_gravity | unborn: Then I think I can cook up a web based solution that is more convenient. |
| 11:20.15 | nkuttler | Spar7an: just ask |
| 11:21.06 | unborn | no_gravity: or use usb hdd (ssd) as moving whole stuff like dirs.. if your phone supports usb2go which most made after 2018 does.. this way you have backup on your usb ssd and if you need files to transfer anywhere just plug that usb ssd (hdd) and copy those out.. |
| 11:21.49 | no_gravity | unborn: How would that work? What type of device would I attach to my phone? |
| 11:22.00 | unborn | no_gravity: sure thing.. do whatever you would prefer.. I do ssd transfer. |
| 11:22.10 | unborn | no_gravity: what phone you have? |
| 11:22.15 | no_gravity | unborn: Pixel 5. |
| 11:23.15 | Spar7an | In my package, I have a postinst script with code "echo 'source fileName' >> ~/.bashrc" but for some reason its not appending to bashrc file, anyone know about this? |
| 11:23.29 | unborn | no_gravity: you need usb2go cable and usb hdd or ssd or usb stick and that's it. I think pixel have some sort of file manager build in.. just plug usb disk into phone open file manager and copy or move files from phone to ssd and you done. |
| 11:23.53 | no_gravity | unborn: That sounds like an interesting solution. |
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| 11:24.00 | unborn | cable cost probably here in uk around £3 I have no idea about us dollars |
| 11:24.29 | no_gravity | unborn: I can connect the usb2go cable to any external hard drive? |
| 11:25.04 | unborn | no_gravity: sure |
| 11:25.18 | unborn | search on google for otg cable no_gravity |
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| 11:25.47 | unborn | no_gravity: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61PW5qqCshL._AC_SY550_.jpg |
| 11:26.00 | no_gravity | I have a bunch of cables that could be otg cables... Let me plug in a random one and see what happens ... |
| 11:26.13 | unborn | that is micro type but you can purchase even usb C type too |
| 11:26.49 | mrkramps | Spar7an, you probably add the line in the wrong .bashrc |
| 11:27.30 | mrkramps | the postinst does - afaik - not run as user |
| 11:27.49 | no_gravity | unborn: Ha, the phone opened the usb drive I plugged in right away :) |
| 11:27.50 | mrkramps | so ~ will be most probably /root |
| 11:28.25 | unborn | no_gravity: great, problem solved. |
| 11:28.47 | ngz | I investigated further about my keyboard issues. For the record Level3 modifier (e.g., AltGr key), does not work on Wayland applications (e.g., gEdit). It seems that it is triggered by a keyboard layout option: altwin (i.e., Alt becomes Ctrl, Win becomes Alt), deactivating this option "fixes" the problem, but obviously is sub-optimal. |
| 11:28.48 | no_gravity | unborn: Well, *if* the android files app can copy directories ... let me see ... |
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| 11:29.28 | unborn | no_gravity: it does. btw its debian off topic, perhaps next time ask on android channel? :) |
| 11:29.45 | no_gravity | unborn: I did. But people in #android only know how to install apps. |
| 11:30.16 | Spar7an | @mrkramps ohh, so you think I can do something like /home/userName/.bashrc? |
| 11:30.30 | unborn | sure. there is debain-offtopic channel I think.. anyway you select folder as you would select file, then copy or move and youre done. |
| 11:30.34 | no_gravity | unborn: Ha, copying a directory worked just fine :) |
| 11:30.39 | mrkramps | Spar7an, an absolute path will do ... for ONE single user |
| 11:30.42 | no_gravity | unborn: Thanks man! That was great help! |
| 11:30.43 | unborn | you welcome |
| 11:31.50 | no_gravity | Its pretty cool. This way you can have literally infinite memory with you for fotos and videos .. just plug in a USB stick and move them all there. |
| 11:31.52 | mrkramps | Spar7an, i'd expect there is a more elegant solution |
| 11:32.31 | mrkramps | no_gravity, so your actual problem was more like storage capacity? |
| 11:32.40 | no_gravity | mrkramps: No, this discovery is just a side effect. |
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| 11:32.59 | unborn | no_gravity: - yes, however its good as backup for your stuff |
| 11:33.30 | unborn | and file transfer to anything which supports usb |
| 11:33.32 | mrkramps | the file exchange is still terrible ... i mean, flippin android literally comes with zero to none utilities |
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| 11:36.47 | unborn | mrkramps: just standard file app build in with your phone will do... I agree, but remember before was only those apps like google photos, drive ugly dropbox etc.. so not many people know about otg |
| 11:37.01 | Spar7an | mrkramps Mmm what do you think might be an 'elegant solution'? (am new to this so don't mind if that was a noob question) |
| 11:37.20 | unborn | and since google will soon going to charge money for storage many will pay ;) |
| 11:38.07 | mrkramps | Spar7an, a package is - typically - installed for all users. so an entry in private configs of a single user is not ideal |
| 11:38.38 | unborn | mrkramps: it could be but run as root under root profile |
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| 11:38.59 | unborn | mrkramps: but many use sudo... so as you said not ideal |
| 11:39.04 | no_gravity | Ok, gotta go. Cu all! |
| 11:39.08 | mrkramps | unborn, yes but from what Spar7an wrote first it does not sound like this qould be the intention |
| 11:39.28 | unborn | mrkramps: as I said I agree with you. |
| 11:39.42 | nkuttler | Spar7an: it doesn't sound like a good idea tbh, as the user might not use bash anyway |
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| 11:39.51 | mrkramps | nevermind |
| 11:40.02 | nkuttler | Spar7an: if your program requires some shell configuration that should rather be documented |
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| 11:40.19 | mrkramps | Spar7an, could you please elaborate what exactly you are trying to achieve? |
| 11:40.40 | unborn | other way could be that user run script in terminal with regular command and then terminal ask for su password - finish the job and log out rightaway to normal user terminal |
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| 11:42.31 | unborn | mrkramps: I think he want to run some after install setup or something like it? you remember chrungbang distro? they had something like that |
| 11:42.59 | Spar7an | mrkramps ok, so I have a completion file (which auto completes when double tab'ed) so I need to source that file in order for auto completion to work for my script, I thought its a good idea to make use of postinst to achieve this |
| 11:43.48 | nkuttler | Spar7an: personally, i would find that very invasive, delete your package, and my bashrc gets reinstalled regularly anyway |
| 11:44.10 | nkuttler | i have my own method of sourcing completion files |
| 11:44.51 | mrkramps | new completitions should go to ... eh /usr/share/bash-completitions/completitions |
| 11:45.24 | Spar7an | nkuttler can you share your method of doing it? |
| 11:45.52 | Spar7an | mrkramps yes am doing the same, maybe I failed to explain it properly, you can check this https://github.com/realpvn/gfinstall |
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| 11:47.28 | unborn | nkuttler: he can still put in his script on start up text to explain what user is about to do and give choice 0 or 1 if 0 then proceed if 1 standard exit |
| 11:47.48 | mrkramps | Spar7an, that's good ... but why an additional line in bashrc? |
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| 11:48.36 | Spar7an | mrkramps I have to source my completion file else the auto completion doesn't seem to work |
| 11:49.13 | mrkramps | Spar7an, you probably have to restart bash |
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| 11:49.55 | Spar7an | mrkramps oh, so you mean I don't have to source it? |
| 11:50.27 | mrkramps | lemme check |
| 11:51.38 | mrkramps | Spar7an, looks like you have to source it ... have a look at /etc/bash_completition.d/ |
| 11:53.17 | unborn | Spar7an: exec bash command |
| 11:53.40 | unborn | ^^ that would restart bash |
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| 11:54.28 | Spar7an | mrkramps even then, I need to source it right? |
| 11:54.39 | mrkramps | Spar7an, yes |
| 11:54.51 | mrkramps | actually, all the completitions are sourced :D |
| 11:54.56 | mrkramps | i just did not know this |
| 11:55.06 | unborn | :) |
| 11:55.25 | Spar7an | unborn no restart doesn't work, I have to source it before restarting bash |
| 11:55.39 | Spar7an | mrkramps xD yeah I just read it too |
| 11:56.12 | Spar7an | been trying out lot of things since like 4 hours and then decided to come here |
| 11:56.44 | unborn | Space_Man: sorry - my bad, I though that you did sourced and just looking for way to restart bash.. I should read more carefully.. anyway make your self .md file and document everything.. in case it will came handy in future ;) |
| 11:58.05 | Spar7an | unborn that's a good idea, I keep forgetting things. Thanks man :) |
| 11:58.47 | mrkramps | Spar7an, all files in /etc/bash_completition.d/ are sourced at the end of the script /usr/share/bash-completition/bash_completition which is called on login by /etc/profile.d/bash_completition |
| 12:00.07 | mrkramps | actually ... not called, but also sourced |
| 12:01.13 | unborn | Space_Man: https://cdn.topfreelancer.co.uk/editor/ you can use this one if you never worked with .md files.. its gdpr complaint site. |
| 12:02.01 | Spar7an | mrkramps ohhhh, so placing it in /etc/bash_completion.d/ and restarting bash should work |
| 12:02.02 | unborn | **however it uses js to pharse markdown code into hmtl |
| 12:02.37 | mrkramps | Spar7an, put it in /usr/share/bash-completition/completitions/YOURFOLDER/ |
| 12:03.01 | mrkramps | Spar7an, and then add a script to /etc/bash_completition.d/ to source the new completitions |
| 12:03.40 | Spar7an | mrkramps ha got it, let me try it |
| 12:04.08 | mrkramps | and you will use a postinst to reload profile as soon as i know how this is done ^^ |
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| 12:05.36 | Spar7an | mrkramps ha yes |
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| 12:33.15 | mrkramps | Spar7an, looks like after installation you should source /etc/profile.d/bash_completion.sh once |
| 12:33.35 | mrkramps | and you're good to go with a new shell |
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| 12:36.16 | Spar7an | mrkramps so, /etc/bash_completion.d/ is depreciated, basically |
| 12:36.16 | Spar7an | - I had to have same name as my script (with .bash) for completion script |
| 12:36.16 | Spar7an | - Instead placing my completion script in a sub folder (/usr/share/bash-completion/completions/myfolder) I had to place it in (/usr/share/bash-completion/completions/) without sub folder |
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| 12:37.08 | Spar7an | mrkramps if you have time check this out (this helped me understand it) https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=814599 |
| 12:37.09 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/814599 in lintian (closed): «lintian: package-installs-into-obsolete-dir: mention filename requirements forà/usr/share/bash-completion/completions/»; severity: important; opened: 2016-02-13; last modified: 2017-10-24. |
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| 12:39.53 | Spar7an | mrkramps also by doing that I don't have to source or open new shell, if you had not told me about this I would be stuck at this for 1 more day probably, thanks man :) |
| 12:40.20 | mrkramps | you're welcome |
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| 12:43.46 | mrkramps | great, so adding new completitions now means they are used on demand as soon as installed |
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| 12:45.35 | Spar7an | mrkramps yep, one less thing to worry about |
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| 12:52.59 | choice | Hello! I filled a whole external thumbdrive with "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb status=progress bs=1M" |
| 12:53.05 | choice | But I can still read all files. |
| 12:53.24 | choice | It is an 8GB thumbdrive. Does Debian keep the whole drive in cache or something? |
| 12:53.36 | mrkramps | it's flash storage |
| 12:53.44 | choice | mrkramps: Yes |
| 12:54.06 | mrkramps | simple overwrite won't help much |
| 12:54.13 | choice | mrkramps: Why not? |
| 12:55.09 | mrkramps | oh, and you have to run 'sync' after dd |
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| 12:55.17 | choice | Ok ... |
| 12:55.22 | choice | Running sync now. |
| 12:55.58 | mrkramps | this will flush write cache and the overwrite should make the stick at least unreadable by normal means |
| 12:56.10 | choice | We will see ... |
| 12:56.18 | choice | sync finished. |
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| 12:56.53 | choice | Ha, now the system hangs when I try to read a file. |
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| 12:57.34 | mrkramps | choice, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Securely_wipe_disk#Flash_memory |
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| 12:58.19 | choice | mrkramps: Yeah, transparent compression might prevent the real data to be overwritten. |
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| 13:02.00 | platypo | Is anyone maybe available to help fixing inconistencies in dependencies in debian10 stable? |
| 13:03.10 | mrkramps | platypo, just ask |
| 13:03.27 | mrkramps | worst case we'll all suddenly hide |
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| 13:06.22 | platypo | mrkramps, i seem to have enabled sid in a drop in in sources.list.d at some point and unfortunately i don't remember exactly what i did then. I think i just installed a package with all dependencies. I now ran apt-get dist-upgrade without sid and it seems to run but i can't install some packages so i guess it didn't work out too fine |
| 13:07.48 | mrkramps | platypo, you have a gui package manager installed? muon or synaptic? |
| 13:07.56 | platypo | synaptic, yes |
| 13:08.23 | platypo | mkrkamps fix broken packages runs without an error there. But when i mark e.g. g++ for installation it shows errors |
| 13:08.25 | mrkramps | check the "status" category for packages "installed (local or obsolete)" |
| 13:08.28 | abrotman | platypo: did you disable the sid repos? have you run 'apt update' since you disabled them? |
| 13:08.58 | mrkramps | actually, let's start with what abrotman asked ... |
| 13:09.06 | quadrathoch2 | and are Sid packages still installed? |
| 13:09.21 | platypo | abrotman, i disable the sid repo, ran apt-get update and then ran apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 13:09.40 | mrkramps | ok, then check synaptic for local/obsolete packages |
| 13:09.49 | abrotman | platypo: you may want to paste what you're seeing into a pastebin |
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| 13:11.46 | platypo | mrkramps there is a bunch of local/obsolete packages in synaptic |
| 13:12.00 | abrotman | are you currently running stable or testing? |
| 13:12.07 | platypo | abrotman stable |
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| 13:12.51 | abrotman | platypo: which package(s) did you install from unstable/ |
| 13:12.52 | abrotman | ? |
| 13:13.08 | abrotman | generally speaking, directly trying to mix stable/unstable is going to lead to crying |
| 13:14.25 | platypo | abrotman is it a necessity to know? I have installed some packages using apt that are not from sid wich are now listed among the local/obsolete packages in synaptic |
| 13:14.31 | platypo | 3 to be exact |
| 13:15.17 | mrkramps | platypo, run "aptitude search ?obsolete > obsolete-packages.txt" |
| 13:15.44 | mrkramps | and upload txt to https://paste.debian.net/ |
| 13:16.38 | platypo | https://pastebin.com/xzgxrX3u |
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| 13:17.51 | platypo | firmware-amd-graphics and libdvdcss were downloaded from debian page and installed with apt at a later point |
| 13:17.52 | mrkramps | i'd say this is not too terrible |
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| 13:19.49 | platypo | (so they have nothing to do with the sid incident i guess) |
| 13:19.50 | mrkramps | platypo, you can try to Package â Force Version⦠in Synpatic to downgrade packages |
| 13:20.40 | platypo | i am sorry i still have no idea what packages i would want to downgrade now |
| 13:21.01 | platypo | i encountered libc6 at some point but somethign tells me it wouldn't be a good idea to do so |
| 13:21.19 | mrkramps | the obsolete packages |
| 13:21.28 | platypo | mrkramps ok thanks |
| 13:21.59 | mrkramps | platypo, one after each other |
| 13:22.47 | platypo | you mean the packages or in general? |
| 13:23.02 | mrkramps | one package at a time |
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| 13:23.16 | mrkramps | apt might try weird things |
| 13:25.59 | platypo | '/now' in apt list --installed means sid/testing? |
| 13:26.11 | platypo | (btw) |
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| 13:28.11 | mrkramps | platypo, "/now" just means current version of local or obsolete package |
| 13:28.43 | mrkramps | or in other terms "now" means not in repository |
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| 13:30.32 | platypo | ok. Libc6 gave me an error: https://pastebin.com/14U12Vu6 |
| 13:32.24 | abrotman | When you show us output, you should also show us the command |
| 13:32.40 | mrkramps | abrotman, this is from synaptic |
| 13:33.02 | platypo | it was from downgrading libc6 via synaptic |
| 13:33.16 | platypo | there are now broken dependencies and i can't proceed |
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| 13:34.55 | platypo | it doesn't matter if this is too bad i am aware that i might have to set up the system completely new |
| 13:34.57 | abrotman | platypo: from a console, I guess 'dpkg --configure -a' gives the same result ? |
| 13:35.38 | mrkramps | platypo, downgrading libc6 is just a bit tricky |
| 13:35.50 | platypo | abrotman this leads me to another issue i haven't figured out yet: when logged in as su in terminal i don't have /sbin and /usr/sbin in $PATH allthough it is set in /etc/profile |
| 13:35.58 | platypo | but i will try from another tty |
| 13:35.59 | abrotman | platypo: 'su -' |
| 13:36.01 | abrotman | not just 'su' |
| 13:36.11 | platypo | good to know, thx |
| 13:37.09 | mrkramps | platypo, remove libvlc-bin (you can reinstall later) |
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| 13:37.53 | platypo | ok something is messed up badly. i can't log in as root from another tty and i can't su : Authentication failure (without password prompt) |
| 13:39.03 | abrotman | can you login as any user? |
| 13:39.38 | platypo | abrotman nope: "Login incorrect" without password prompt. I hesitate to close the terminal window now. |
| 13:40.05 | platypo | guess i'll go cry in the corner a bit and set up debian freshly |
| 13:40.39 | abrotman | platypo: Downgrading in Debian is tricky, and libc makes it even moreso. |
| 13:41.27 | mrkramps | platypo, you're using special non-ascii charaters in your password? |
| 13:41.37 | platypo | mrkramps it doesn't even prompt for one |
| 13:42.18 | platypo | abrotman, yes and enabling sid in the repositories is dumb i hope i've learned that now |
| 13:42.45 | abrotman | platypo: Do you remember what you were actually trying to install from sid? |
| 13:42.52 | abrotman | platypo: I'm asking because sometimes there are other methods |
| 13:43.18 | platypo | abrotman not exactly. But i guess without root access i can't achieve much now |
| 13:43.24 | mrkramps | wait, why do you have to login from another tty? |
| 13:43.33 | mrkramps | is your desktop env frozen? |
| 13:43.33 | abrotman | platypo: you don't have any root terminal anywhere? |
| 13:43.45 | platypo | because i can't log in as root in terminal window |
| 13:43.54 | mrkramps | sudo is not working? |
| 13:44.14 | platypo | i never used sudo i am not in sudoers group |
| 13:44.37 | nkuttler | platypo: if your shell still starts you might be able to boot into single user mode.. that being said, a reinstall would most likely be faster than trying to fix this |
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| 13:45.07 | abrotman | nkuttler: if libc is in crap state, that chance goes down a fair bit |
| 13:45.50 | abrotman | but don't let me stop the party :) |
| 13:46.08 | nkuttler | or platypo could boot a live system. it's a good learning experience i guess :) |
| 13:46.25 | platypo | nevermind, but thanks for the help i think the first thing to do will be some backups and then i'll take it from there |
| 13:46.37 | nkuttler | sounds like a plan |
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| 13:47.01 | platypo | i guess that's a fair risk in exchange for a free and mostly awesome OS |
| 13:47.03 | mrkramps | this is not fucked up beyond all repair ... but i have to admit this is difficult to support remotely |
| 13:48.06 | nkuttler | i've once "fixed" an upgraded prod system by manually unpacking all debs that were upgraded.. |
| 13:50.34 | abrotman | There are lots of methods, but you still need a root shell ... he should have opened one before mucking wiht synaptic |
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| 13:53.14 | platypo | Thanks anyway i'll get over it |
| 13:54.55 | mrkramps | :\ |
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| 13:57.52 | jsubl2 | i have an hp envy 6055 printer wireless cant seem to get it to work... any ideas |
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| 14:02.22 | unborn | jsubl2: read it properly and take your time https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/ |
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| 14:03.05 | unborn | jsubl2: link is from https://support.hp.com/gb-en/document/c01174360 from google search of your printer. |
| 14:03.43 | unborn | - otherwise nag them. |
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| 14:07.04 | jsubl2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:07.13 | jsubl2 | tx unborn |
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| 14:17.28 | mrkramps | ok, just for the records ... |
| 14:18.00 | mrkramps | chrooting from initramfs busybox to dpkg-reconfigure is awesome |
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| 15:05.25 | Franciman | Hi, I faced the dreaded 'Unsupported relocation type: R_X86_64_PLT32 (4)' problem while compiling an old kernel |
| 15:05.34 | Franciman | do you know how I can install an older binutils on debian? |
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| 17:58.17 | infosec_yo | is debian stabel? |
| 17:58.34 | sney | that's the idea |
| 17:58.41 | infosec_yo | how stabel ? |
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| 18:00.54 | infosec_yo | is debian secure? |
| 18:01.04 | sney | infosec_yo: your questions are pretty vague but probably answered in the debian faq: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ |
| 18:01.19 | sney | if you have a specific question about something you read there, feel free to come back. |
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| 18:02.34 | infosec_yo | huh |
| 18:02.42 | infosec_yo | but thats a MAN page. |
| 18:03.16 | sney | it is not a man page, try clicking the link. |
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| 18:04.04 | infosec_yo | no |
| 18:04.19 | petn-randall | I guess that solves your problem then. |
| 18:04.28 | infosec_yo | it doesnt. |
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| 18:04.44 | petn-randall | We can't help you if you refuse to read. |
| 18:05.04 | infosec_yo | that link leads to another link that another link redirects to google |
| 18:05.12 | infosec_yo | wtf? |
| 18:05.16 | ratrace | oh now you're here :) |
| 18:05.17 | petn-randall | No, it doesn't. |
| 18:05.27 | sney | ratrace: repeat offender? |
| 18:05.34 | ratrace | did that same dance to gentoo, got banned |
| 18:05.39 | aminvakil | i think i've saw this id about a month ago on centos |
| 18:06.17 | aminvakil | same questions |
| 18:06.22 | petn-randall | is guessing they're probabl running Kali, anyway, for the 1337 h4x0r skillz |
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| 18:09.15 | mrkramps | infosec_yo, debian is not very secure, you should probably look for something like gentoo |
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| 18:16.28 | petn-randall | mrkramps: Ah, please don't feed any FUD here. |
| 18:17.24 | infosec_yo | huh ? |
| 18:17.43 | infosec_yo | why gentoo? |
| 18:18.17 | Franciman | no pc is very secure, tho |
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| 18:18.31 | infosec_yo | so debian is not secure? |
| 18:18.33 | Franciman | err I mean, 100% secure |
| 18:18.38 | Franciman | no idea |
| 18:18.41 | Franciman | I think it is secure |
| 18:18.48 | Franciman | I mean there is a security team :P |
| 18:18.53 | Franciman | but I have no clue |
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| 18:19.33 | mrkramps | gentoo is lengendary for its security?! so what? |
| 18:19.38 | Franciman | the security updates are always delivered, they don't depend on the release cycle. So if for example the software foo gets a security fix |
| 18:19.45 | Franciman | you get it too, you don't have to wait for the next release |
| 18:19.55 | Franciman | an important security fix* |
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| 18:21.04 | infosec_yo | so gentoo is better than debian ? |
| 18:21.08 | gnat_x | infosec_yo: if you don't trust the links people offer here, you are welcome to search the same docs yourself. unless you are using some weird irc client no debian.org link will have a google redirect. |
| 18:21.23 | infosec_yo | i heard debian website got hacked a while back too. |
| 18:21.42 | gnat_x | infosec_yo: it depends what you want out of a linux distro. any computer can be configured insecurely no matter what OS. |
| 18:22.09 | ratrace | guise... it's troll. same nonsensical questions asked in #gentoo, got banned. then moved to gentoo-chat, where we had some fun |
| 18:22.30 | gnat_x | fair. i'll go back to my upgrades now... |
| 18:22.36 | infosec_yo | huh ? |
| 18:22.40 | infosec_yo | maybe mistaken.... |
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| 18:23.50 | infosec_yo | seems like debian are looking to gang up on new dudes in the FOSS field. |
| 18:23.55 | gnat_x | infosec_yo: refusing to read documentation makes you either a troll, or someone who doesn't actually want to learn anything. in either case, it is a troll move. |
| 18:24.15 | infosec_yo | i just read it but its not sufficient. |
| 18:24.46 | gnat_x | falsely claiming that documents have mystery redirects and asking vague questions, also troll moves. |
| 18:25.08 | infosec_yo | i did get a redirect |
| 18:25.20 | gnat_x | then you're using some whacky irc client. |
| 18:25.25 | infosec_yo | and my INTERNET explorer running on WINE crashed. |
| 18:25.41 | gnat_x | no surprise there. |
| 18:25.41 | ratrace | trolololo :) |
| 18:25.59 | infosec_yo | so debian is hosting windows exploits? |
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| 18:26.42 | ratrace | chews on some toothpick |
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| 18:28.02 | omarek | Hi, which top level dirs experience the most write access in Linux? I'm thinking of migrating my system to SSD but want to make it last longer. |
| 18:28.16 | infosec_yo | use a delay spray. |
| 18:28.17 | omarek | One idea I have is: /var, especially /var/log |
| 18:28.30 | ratrace | omarek: unless you have some very, very old SSD, you're completely wasting your time |
| 18:28.43 | infosec_yo | yea as ratrace said. |
| 18:28.54 | gnat_x | omarek: putting var log on its own filesystem with lvm is a good idea though. |
| 18:28.59 | omarek | ratrace: I think it's the opposite in many cases. SLC are the most durable. |
| 18:29.08 | infosec_yo | yea use durex. |
| 18:29.11 | ratrace | because SSDs these days, and I'm talking like last 5+ years, are so robust, that normal desktop use won't even approach any serious wear in warrnty time |
| 18:29.19 | omarek | More modern types of SSD often pack information more tightly and it reduces durability. |
| 18:29.40 | sney | have you experienced this reduced durability? or are you regurgitating something you saw on a hardware website? |
| 18:29.45 | omarek | ratrace: And warranty time is what, 2 years typically? |
| 18:29.45 | ratrace | but overall durability got wya way way better. and this is 5 years old now: https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead/ |
| 18:29.59 | ratrace | omarek: 2 on cheap-os, 5 on some better ones |
| 18:30.24 | omarek | Can we agree that SSDs wear out a lot more from writing than reading? |
| 18:30.39 | ratrace | yes, but their resilience is FAR greater than modern use cases deamnd of them |
| 18:30.59 | ratrace | unless you have constant streaming at many tens of MB/s (like, say, video editing use cases), you don't have to worry |
| 18:31.13 | sney | I still have almost every SSD I've ever bought, and the only time I've seen one die, it was from a factory defect. |
| 18:31.14 | ratrace | DEFINITELY not worry with some "most writable dirs" in linux. that's insignificant |
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| 18:31.50 | omarek | Do you all really feel so trolled by this question? Is it a common question? |
| 18:32.03 | ratrace | omarek: I'll give you some hard numbers. I run gentoo, and that means building a lot of software weekly. all goes on the SSD. in the last 5 years I accumulated less than 20 TBW. the disk is rated to ~50 I think. And that's an old drive now |
| 18:32.15 | sney | if you want to use an "optimized" directory structure to make yourself feel better, go ahead, nobody can stop you. |
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| 18:32.34 | sney | but there is no actual justification for this |
| 18:34.05 | ratrace | but if you're hell bent on "optimizing" like that .... run iotop in cumulative mode for a week while you use the computer normally. then observe what did the most writing |
| 18:34.14 | omarek | Wow I feel like the time I called Rust a 'hobby programming language'. |
| 18:34.52 | ratrace | omarek: you're given valid advice not waste time with useless "optimizations". if you don't value that, I have no words for you then. but go ahead. run iotop for a week, your question will be answered. |
| 18:35.19 | ratrace | iotop in cumulative mode, sort by MB/s written |
| 18:35.50 | omarek | Why are you so grumpy today? |
| 18:37.01 | aminvakil | omarek: move /tmp to memory, that may help you write less on your ssd and it boosts your performance too |
| 18:37.11 | sney | it would be irresponsible for a support channel to reinforce this myth that normal use kills SSDs. |
| 18:37.19 | ratrace | sney: +1 |
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| 18:38.32 | omarek | I just installed iotop because the name sounds intriguing. I'm missing something because command is not found yet I have the man page. Usually ubuntu people tell you to 'run it with sudo' which means that you need to prepend the command with /sbin/ . But my trick is failing me... |
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| 18:38.48 | aminvakil | omarek: yes, this may not be related to your question, but if you don't want to feel you haven't done anything https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Tmpfs |
| 18:39.29 | ratrace | !tell omarek about buster su |
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| 18:40.17 | omarek | Okay, I'll make sure to buy a pretty recent SSD. Thank you for the links. |
| 18:40.18 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:41.32 | ratrace | apt uses it to unpack and run maintainers scripts off of it, that's like the most writing to /tmp under typical use cases |
| 18:42.07 | omarek | Why am I having trouble running iotop as a user? Do I REALLY need to run it as root? |
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| 18:43.07 | ratrace | yes you do, it requires kernel APIs not available to unpriv users |
| 18:44.22 | aminvakil | ratrace: it would speeds up some tasks on some cases and it's safe, am i right, i don't think it can do any harm |
| 18:44.45 | ratrace | it can't. I use /tmp on tmpfs too. but not to spare the SSDs :) |
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| 18:45.30 | aminvakil | ratrace: right :) |
| 18:46.23 | ratrace | just requires you to be aware of any programs that actually do use /tmp for write intensive tasks, for example data/media/format conversion things... |
| 18:46.30 | sney | zswap is another nice one, let linux do its typical healthy swap dance without actually using swap on disk, unless things are really out of control |
| 18:46.32 | ratrace | (so your memory isn't overrun) |
| 18:47.11 | omarek | Knowing people, we will probably soon get games which require 100's of GB being written all the time. |
| 18:47.35 | omarek | Because whenever a new better computing technology comes out, programmers respond by becoming lazier. |
| 18:47.42 | ratrace | Actually... Borderlands 3 under Proton behaves similarly. Each run re-downloads few GB of vulkan shaders.... |
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| 18:49.14 | omarek | So heavy disk writing only really happens when you're dealing with LARGE media such as video and music to a lesser extent? |
| 18:49.39 | omarek | Or some big ass docker containers. |
| 18:49.52 | ratrace | omarek: one non-obvious writer is the browser. I watch a lot of Netflix and every vid goes through firefox on-disk caches |
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| 18:50.11 | ratrace | but even so, like I said... in 5 years, wth that and other work and gentoo rebuilds .... I got less than 20TBW. |
| 18:50.51 | ratrace | so you'd need some serious data crunching to get within TBW estimates inside the warranty period |
| 18:51.25 | aminvakil | browser read/write can be on memory too:) but it has some security issues of course |
| 18:51.26 | ratrace | but really... run iotop. you'll be surprised what you see |
| 18:53.08 | n4dir | what is TBW? |
| 18:53.14 | ratrace | TB written |
| 18:53.29 | ratrace | SSDs are rated for how much data you write to them and track that number |
| 18:53.43 | ratrace | because the cells have finite amount of writes they can receive in their lifetime |
| 18:53.49 | n4dir | uhum. TB is? thanks btw |
| 18:54.06 | ratrace | Tera Byte. A thousand Gigabytes. A Million megabytes. |
| 18:54.24 | n4dir | ah, i thought so. Thanks ratrace (will get my first SSD soon, hence the question) |
| 18:54.32 | omarek | sney: zswap further boosts performance because SSD doesn't need to start spinning? |
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| 18:54.46 | ratrace | n4dir: read te article I linked above. it's 5 years old now, but things only got better since then |
| 18:55.01 | sney | omarek: zswap boosts performance because ram is faster than disks |
| 18:55.02 | n4dir | missed it. thanks for pointing it out again |
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| 18:55.08 | ratrace | omarek: SSds don't...... spin...... do you even...... what? |
| 18:55.19 | omarek | That's slightly counter-intuitive at first. You'd think the benefit for mechanical drives would be bigger, but when you start thinking about spinning plates... |
| 18:55.43 | ratrace | what? |
| 18:56.39 | sney | assumed 'spinning' was metaphorical |
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| 18:57.42 | omarek | Interesting thing, zswap. For typical desktop use we have much more RAM than we can use. |
| 18:57.57 | omarek | It's strange how most computer users can max out RAM. |
| 18:58.00 | sney | <firefox> challenge accepted |
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| 18:58.45 | omarek | sney: You can manually make it uncache if you dig into settings. |
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| 18:59.13 | omarek | sney: I know what I'm talking about, my computer has 4GB. |
| 18:59.25 | ratrace | oof |
| 18:59.33 | ratrace | hope you don't gnome on that. |
| 18:59.38 | omarek | i3 |
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| 19:00.39 | ratrace | i3's nice. I use that too |
| 19:00.55 | sney | zswap is not enabled by default in debian, because it's not a universal performance boost; if you're actually approaching your physical memory limit anyway, it won't do you any good and may even slow some things down |
| 19:01.02 | omarek | One source claimed that SSDs wear out faster if you have more space used, because SSDs juggle data around to spread wear around. Is that still relevant? |
| 19:01.14 | omarek | That you should leave at least 10% unusued. |
| 19:01.39 | sney | that's just good computer use advice. but like anything, unlikely to significantly affect SSD lifespan |
| 19:02.47 | sney | some filesystems start to behave poorly when they're that full, zfs is one of them. |
| 19:03.00 | ratrace | that's relavant yes. I always leave a few GB so write bursts can get spread out and not RMW-d |
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| 19:03.45 | omarek | ratrace: Thanks for the tip, I'm watching a lot of youtube. |
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| 19:04.10 | wondiws | when I do apt-get upgrade on sid, almost half of the packages will be held back, because they need extra packages installed (or perhaps removed). When a new package need to be installed there is for me no need to review it. Is there a command or a flag to "upgrade" to also include those updates that need a new package installed? |
| 19:04.12 | ratrace | the difference can be huge. I had an SSD that behaved poorly and then I realized it's because I was using it for testing and it was chock full (the firmware had no idea there was a sector free). after I ran blkdiscard on it (the firmware saw all the sectors free), performance shot up 3x |
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| 19:04.46 | sney | wondiws: you're probably looking for 'apt full-upgrade'. And please take sid questions to #debian-next on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode.) |
| 19:04.55 | ratrace | these days the SSDs are supposed to have extra reserved space (invisible as free to the user) for that purpose, but I always leave a few GB just in case |
| 19:05.05 | omarek | When I do buy a SSD, it's going to be a M.2 with nvme. Because why go there halfway. |
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| 19:05.21 | wondiws | sney, alright, well, I mentioned sid, but my question isn't specific to sid... |
| 19:05.28 | omarek | I reached a point where I'm upgrading my computer mostly due to RAM. |
| 19:05.28 | ratrace | (and with spinners I'd leave a few GB free so I could replace with drives that claim same byte size but actualyl differ in sectors) |
| 19:05.28 | wondiws | altough this happens more often on sid ofcourse |
| 19:05.35 | omarek | 12 year old CPU. |
| 19:07.01 | ratrace | omarek: just a heads up, the 4.19 kernel has some issues with some nvmes. not sure what exactly, not sure which ones exactly, but after I bumped the kernel to backported one, the issues resolved. |
| 19:07.17 | sney | wondiws: it's sufficiently specific to sid. please go to the correct channel. support is just as good there. |
| 19:07.26 | ratrace | it was about "usage" metric and iowait, it reported 100% usage for trivial write ops, even though it could reach declared IOPs and BW just fine |
| 19:07.37 | omarek | I'm still in the information gathering phase. |
| 19:07.38 | wondiws | sney, alright, got it |
| 19:08.34 | ratrace | it's always good to have the reasonably latest kernel (backports are fine). nothing to do with shiny, and everything to do with lots of bugfixes that aren't backported to LTS kernels |
| 19:08.36 | omarek | Is there some common way to make autocomplete work for parameters ? For example 'git rev-parse --show-toplevel'. I read that zsh does that by default. |
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| 19:10.01 | ratrace | I suppoes that's not shell specifically but autocomplete written for specific shells |
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| 19:12.18 | Ede|Popede | isn't this also in /etc/autocomplete or whereever the files are? |
| 19:12.22 | sney | probably start with debian's bash-completion and modify to suit your needs |
| 19:12.54 | KNERD | omarek: yeah NVMe is the way to go. I got a laptop with Core i7 7th gen, but it's got an M.2 SATA and at times it's still super slow |
| 19:13.24 | omarek | I happen to live in the only European country which actually produces RAM. |
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| 19:13.39 | omarek | They make pretty good ones. |
| 19:13.48 | KNERD | Ireland? |
| 19:14.14 | KNERD | at least Raspberry Pi is made in Wales |
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| 19:19.12 | omarek | Is there a better channel for PC building advice? I feel like I've wandered into offtopic. |
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| 19:21.39 | Ede|Popede | ##hardware as a start maybe |
| 19:22.17 | sney | debian's hardware advice mostly boils down to: 1) keep it simple; b) look up driver support before you buy, particularly wrt wifi and graphics |
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| 19:23.59 | KNERD | Only three basic manufacturers of graphics cards. nVidia, AMD, and Intel so I dont see much problem |
| 19:24.33 | KNERD | I got games running nicely on Intel HD 6 series with Steam |
| 19:25.06 | omarek | I'm a long time Linux user so I look up driver support by default. |
| 19:25.27 | sney | concerns with graphics hardware happen when something is so bleeding-edge new that mainline linux hasn't caught up yet, or if it's the intel+nvidia optimus kludge that was never designed to work in anything but windows |
| 19:25.29 | KNERD | network and sound tends to have issue |
| 19:25.58 | ratrace | I fully support what sney said. that's typically the vast majority of any gpu issues one will have these days. |
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| 19:26.17 | sney | sound is nowhere near as hairy as it once was but there's no harm in checking. and just... avoid realtek and broadcom and you'll *usually* be fine |
| 19:26.40 | omarek | I think I'm going to get a micro-ATX motherboard (and case). I'm wondering what the biggest drawbacks of mini-itx are. What does one want to have in PCI Express anyway? Storage and GPU... |
| 19:27.13 | omarek | I want to have a sound card, but other than that I think mini-itx can come with both PCI-E and an M.2 slot. |
| 19:27.35 | KNERD | mini-itx tends to have low powered CPUs such as Celery and Atom |
| 19:27.59 | sney | mATX used to be limited to the "cheap" section and as such wouldn't get all of the bells and whistles of the full-size model, but it's been a couple years so I'm not sure if that's still accurate |
| 19:28.08 | omarek | I think I read it tends to be up to TDP 65W. |
| 19:28.14 | sney | sometimes minimal is good anyway |
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| 19:28.55 | mrkramps | oh damn, i missed the best conversations :( |
| 19:28.55 | TheWizard | hi |
| 19:29.21 | KNERD | I got a couple of ASUS N3050M-E mini-itx boards and has all the bells and whistles, but the CPU is so under powered |
| 19:29.59 | TheWizard | please I have a problem with debian 10 and alc270 (on asus k55v laptop) only the left speaker is working |
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| 19:32.31 | mrkramps | TheWizard, could be get the exact model? |
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| 19:36.50 | sney | TheWizard: do you get both channels if you use headphones? |
| 19:37.04 | mrkramps | checked alsamixer? ^^ |
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| 19:44.41 | omarek | Funny how black is the new beige for PC cases and extension cards :| |
| 19:44.55 | mrkramps | and all leds are blue -.- |
| 19:45.15 | omarek | Haha it's a hipster thing to buy something without LEDs now! |
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| 19:45.44 | sney | I have an atx case from around 2009, it's black and has a matte silver front, and NO WINDOW, and I'm keeping it as long as I can get away with it |
| 19:45.50 | mrkramps | ich want my red, green and yellow back ... i hate blue leds so much |
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| 19:46.42 | omarek | I have an old ATX case, but I don't need such a big box. If I'm getting an mATX I want to get that small portability benefit. |
| 19:47.07 | sney | my homie has a recording studio so he needed a high end PC to run cubase and keep up with all of the i/o. and of course this pc is a flashing neon monstrosity that cycles colors every few seconds. v professional I tell ya |
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| 19:47.47 | mason | The whole RGB thing leaves me a little cold. |
| 19:47.58 | sney | I'm ready for it to go out of style |
| 19:48.27 | mrkramps | those pc build are like shitty car mods |
| 19:48.35 | mason | A nice uniform glow can certainly look nice, mind you. But they even sell RAM that cycles colours now. |
| 19:49.25 | omarek | sney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM8sxFxmOUw Also read the comments |
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| 19:50.58 | sney | omarek: "my homie has a recording studio" does not mean "try to evangelize me with some audio opinions," just fyi. |
| 19:51.18 | sney | even if we were in an offtopic channel I'm not interested |
| 19:52.21 | ratrace | "RGB ricing" I s'pose |
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| 19:53.37 | omarek | What gets me is a reddit like 'unixporn'. People messing up their tiling managers with stuff like i3gaps |
| 19:53.38 | TheWizard | mrkramps: sure |
| 19:53.56 | TheWizard | mrkramps: left and right are at the same value |
| 19:54.43 | omarek | Translucent terminals at the cost of readability. Desktop environments made for screenshots not usability. |
| 19:55.02 | ratrace | omarek: what do you mean messing, i3gps is the bees knees of i3 |
| 19:55.04 | mrkramps | omarek, those are just show cars |
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| 19:55.21 | mrkramps | you cannot drive them |
| 19:55.46 | ratrace | it's "just" a tiling margin. looks neat. I hate when stuff's crammed atop of each other |
| 19:56.26 | omarek | ratrace: i3gaps bothers me because one of reasons I got into i3 is to make better use of my display. I think the desktop metaphor is a failure. |
| 19:56.54 | omarek | I think in the future most people will use tiling managers, they just need to figure out more newbie friendly window managers to go with it. |
| 19:57.04 | mrkramps | i like gaps, no use to argue about personal preferences |
| 19:57.16 | ratrace | mrkramps: how dare you! |
| 19:57.28 | ratrace | j/k |
| 19:57.38 | omarek | I'm also annoyed by the fact many applications hog the whole screen, like skype. They assume you have no capability to efficiently switch apps or lay them out. So much bloat. |
| 19:57.52 | ratrace | but really some things on r/unixporn are really awesome |
| 19:58.08 | ratrace | once I was very tempted to go openbox just to have that one theme I saw there |
| 19:58.37 | omarek | mrkramps: ratrace: I get that i3gaps has some aesthetic appeal, but at the same time modern windowed applications are obese when it comes to using screen space. |
| 19:58.54 | mrkramps | omarek, i said "gaps" _not_ "i3gaps" |
| 19:59.44 | omarek | ratrace: Yeah, spending some time to improve aesthetics is nice. |
| 20:01.18 | omarek | For similiar reasons, I'm annoyed by people who use 120 character lines and beyond. I'm a programmer. If other programmers make very wide lines it's not only less comfortable to read but also messes up my ability to have 2 or 3 windows side by side. |
| 20:01.58 | omarek | Newspapers have figured that out - having a couple of text columns make it easier to read. |
| 20:01.58 | mrkramps | get a second monitor ;) |
| 20:02.41 | omarek | mrkramps: Yes that's a solution, but you're solving the problem you've made yourself. |
| 20:04.12 | omarek | mrkramps: That's a nice metaphor with show cars. |
| 20:05.02 | mrkramps | RICE = Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement |
| 20:05.28 | mrkramps | no shit, ricing originates from the car mod scene |
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| 20:08.45 | omarek | mrkramps: Oh. So it's like palaces with crenelations and machicolations. |
| 20:09.38 | omarek | A form of mimicry. Like cyberpunk. |
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| 20:10.34 | mrkramps | i have no idea what it is ⦠when i was young we called it skins and themes |
| 20:11.26 | ratrace | or CFLAG tweaks :) |
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| 20:13.32 | phogg | mrkramps: that's a nicer etymology than the real one. |
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| 20:24.00 | jhutchins | I'm a single full screen guy myself, but this has wandered pretty far offtopic. There's #debian-offtopic if you want to continue the thread. |
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| 20:34.51 | MalaGaM | Hello, I am looking for a way to protect my machine. I don't know how to do it. I would like a way to prohibit the use of node.js/npm packages for all users, if that is not possible. Forbid files with a checksum list / md5? or others .. in this sense to ban specific files. |
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| 20:39.35 | nkuttler | !securing debian |
| 20:39.36 | dpkg | The Securing Debian Manual describes the security of the Debian GNU/Linux operating system and within the Debian project. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-manual/ Packaged for Debian as harden-doc. See also <manuals>. |
| 20:39.50 | nkuttler | MalaGaM: ^^ |
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| 20:40.07 | nkuttler | MalaGaM: as for forbidding stuff.. it's basically not possible. if you don't trust users, don't give them an account |
| 20:41.19 | Gerowen | MalaGaM: There's a package called "lshell" that allows you to restrict users' access to certain commands. I haven't used it in a long time, and I'm not sure if it could be made to do what you're asking, but you might take a look at it just to see. |
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| 20:42.36 | MalaGaM | nkuttler: Thanks, I'll start reading the securing debian manual. Linux <-> impossible? :D |
| 20:44.22 | nkuttler | your question was very vague |
| 20:45.43 | ratrace | it's very much possible with a mandatory access control policy ala selinux |
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| 20:49.20 | MalaGaM | nkuttler: And at the same time simple. I want to ban NPM packages from being used. I imagine it's complicated. This is why the second part directs my wish to ban files with a list of md5sum. |
| 20:50.13 | MalaGaM | Gerowen and ratrace: I google your ideas. thank you |
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| 21:00.40 | MalaGaM | I may have found a method that comes close to my goal (incron/inotify): https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/210148/how-to-trap-an-event-when-a-file-with-a-specific-content-given-by-e-g-checksum |
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| 21:02.08 | Gerowen | I'm making a nautilus script and have what feels like a stupid question. I'm just adding a right click option to "shred" files. It works if the filename has no spaces, but if the filename has spaces it doesn't work. I've tried putting quotes around the variable name but that makes it stop working on anything. I changed it to just print the filename to a file and it's working regardless of whether the filename has spaces, but if I try to actually run |
| 21:02.08 | Gerowen | "shred" on it and the filename has spaces, it fails. I'm missing something silly here. Anybody got any idea? |
| 21:02.09 | Gerowen | https://paste.debian.net/1176629/ |
| 21:02.55 | Gerowen | I also tried doing bash -c "shred -xvufz '$varname'", but that didn't work either. |
| 21:04.46 | n4dir | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:05.23 | MalaGaM | Yes: shred -xfuvz "$NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_FILE_PATHS" |
| 21:05.43 | n4dir | in general you want to double_qoute each and every variable , iirc |
| 21:06.18 | MalaGaM | https://github.com/koalaman/shellcheck/wiki/SC2086 |
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| 21:31.52 | Aavar_ | If I have two existing raid1 arrays. Is it simple to combine them into a raid10 array? |
| 21:32.02 | f8e4 | is it ok to make .dotfiles a symblink to my dotrepo? |
| 21:32.05 | TheWizard | hi |
| 21:32.08 | f8e4 | hi |
| 21:32.56 | ratrace | Aavar_: two existing? independently? |
| 21:33.08 | Aavar_ | ratrace: yes. |
| 21:33.24 | TheWizard | please I have a problem with buster + alsa + alc270: right speaker has got a very low volume. Checked alsamixer, tried a live distro, but same issue... Thanks for help! |
| 21:33.30 | Aavar_ | ratrace: one of them is empty if that changes anything. |
| 21:34.00 | ratrace | Aavar_: so how do you imagne that to work.... a raid10 serves a single filesystem. so, no, you'll have to construct teh array from scratch, and break this one |
| 21:35.10 | Aavar_ | ratrace: Is it possible to create a raid10 array with just two disks, copy the files from the existing raid1 and then add the two new drives to the raid10 array? |
| 21:35.50 | ratrace | Aavar_: in theory, you could use 'missing' for the missing drives. the two missing must be in different mirror groups |
| 21:36.13 | Aavar_ | Basically. I have an existing raid1 array and I want to add two new drives to make it raid10. |
| 21:36.33 | ratrace | I am not aware of mdadm's ability to grow a raid1 into 10 like that. |
| 21:36.55 | ratrace | I am assuming you're talking about mdadm, or else this ain't a debian problem really. well neither is this, mdadm is not debian specific. |
| 21:38.41 | Aavar_ | ratrace: mdadm yes. |
| 21:40.21 | ratrace | Aavar_: unfortunately I think you'll have to create the array from scratch, but if you break the raid1 with data on it, you can keep one member as backup, while you zero the superblock on the otehr and use it for raid10 with the other two drives |
| 21:41.09 | ratrace | so you crate a raid10 with A, B, C and 'missing' where the missing one is a member of the data raid1 you dismantled, then copy data to the new raid10 from it, zero the superblock and reattach it into the new 10 md |
| 21:41.28 | sney | TheWizard: again, if you use headphones, can you hear both channels normally? |
| 21:41.42 | ratrace | by "break" the data raid1, I mean fail ONE device, and reuse it in 10, while this degraded remains with data. |
| 21:42.00 | Aavar_ | ratrace: Is it not better to have two drives missing from the raid 10 array? if that is even possible. |
| 21:42.14 | ratrace | Aavar_: OF COURSE ... you will have backups somewhere because, even though in theory it's doable with zero loss, a tiny mistake can lead to data loss |
| 21:42.36 | TheWizard | sney: ok, checking now |
| 21:42.45 | Aavar_ | ratrace: I do have offsite backups, but I would rather not use them :) |
| 21:42.45 | ratrace | Aavar_: why? you have 4 disks, right? one data raid1, and one "empty" raid1. break up teh data raid1 by failing one drive, so you have 3 drives for your new raid10 |
| 21:43.08 | ratrace | what's the point of two missing when you don't really need that? |
| 21:43.23 | Aavar_ | ratrace: My thinking is that I have at least two drives with the data at all times. Right? |
| 21:44.09 | ratrace | well I suppose that would work |
| 21:46.40 | Aavar_ | ratrace: As I don't 100% fully understand how raid works. Is it more secure to use two single raid 1 arrays that one raid10? |
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| 21:47.49 | ratrace | Aavar_: bot have the same tolerance level: any 1 drive may fail; 2 drives may fail if in different mirror groups |
| 21:47.55 | TheWizard | sney: perfectly balanced |
| 21:48.32 | sney | TheWizard: ok, you have a hardware problem. It's probably the speaker itself, or whatever tiny crossover is built in to your laptop. |
| 21:48.35 | ratrace | Aavar_: and that logic here applies to mdadm. a btrfs raid10 for example, does not have that level of tolerance |
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| 21:49.28 | ratrace | Aavar_: also with two independent raid1, you'll need a volume manager to bind them into a single filesystem. |
| 21:49.29 | Aavar_ | I think maybe I'll stick with the two arrays then... as this is a personal server I don't need the drama in my life right now :) Thank you for great answers. |
| 21:50.11 | TheWizard | sney: very strange indeed |
| 21:51.31 | sney | not really. laptops, especially when actually used as a *portable* computer, often develop small electrical faults over time |
| 21:54.30 | TheWizard | sney: left speaker volume is low too |
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| 22:21.43 | f8e4 | folks is it ok to remove swap? |
| 22:22.30 | bru | f8e4: It depends, how much physical memory do you have on your computer? If it's enough, there's hardly any risk in removing it |
| 22:22.51 | f8e4 | the default installer on just made 1gb ram /dev/dm-2 partition on 8gb ram! |
| 22:23.01 | jhutchins | bru: Watch it with something like top, see if it's being used. |
| 22:23.10 | f8e4 | and why partiotion if it can be a swap file right; should i create one? |
| 22:23.29 | f8e4 | sudo fallocate -l 8G /swapfile |
| 22:23.36 | jhutchins | f8e4: Partition works better. |
| 22:24.01 | jhutchins | Swap file introduces additional layers of overhead. |
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| 22:24.36 | f8e4 | jhutchins ok: how to fiddle with lvm shrink p1 and swap 1g grow forward by 7 to 8gb ? |
| 22:24.41 | jhutchins | f8e4: Besides, if you have a file that's the same size as your partition, what's the point? |
| 22:24.55 | jolt | swap is used instead of memory, any additional latency is worsen the response, so having it on a partition introduces less latency than a file. But it works though |
| 22:25.14 | f8e4 | better than my stuff crashing |
| 22:25.58 | f8e4 | y think its ok to doctor in lvm p1 p2_swap around shrink/grow either |
| 22:26.14 | f8e4 | do i need liveboot |
| 22:26.30 | aminvakil | f8e4: also keep in mind that linux swaps when something is in its cache, but it may not be important, so don't just rely on top and free to see if there is anything on swap |
| 22:26.48 | jolt | f8e4: you don't need to, but it makes it so much more easier if you aren't used to doing it. |
| 22:26.57 | jhutchins | f8e4: Since you have to back up the partition first anyway, I just edit the partition and restore. Safer & more reliable. You can find plenty of docs on how to grow an LVM volume on the web though. I haven't done it in months, but basically you create a PV on the partition, add it to a VG, and then grow the LV. |
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| 22:27.59 | jsync | ("32 Bit Byte" & "64 Bit Byte" & "Maximum Sufficiency for the Intelligent Few") |
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| 22:29.42 | f8e4 | wtf was that driveby |
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| 22:31.07 | jsync2 | "youtube" jumped to 128 with dumb programmers. |
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| 22:32.28 | jsync2 | ("32 Bit Byte" & 64 Bit Byte" & "Maximum Sufficiency for the Intelligent Few") |
| 22:32.30 | jhutchins | jsync2: Did you have a Debian support question? |
| 22:32.49 | jsync2 | I have a "Report". |
| 22:33.35 | jhutchins | Oh, that's right, they're on Boca, CST. Getting dark but still some daylight left. |
| 22:33.45 | jsync2 | "Youtube" media is going missing & altered of consequences. |
| 22:33.58 | f8e4 | jhutchins what is he talking bout |
| 22:34.01 | jhutchins | jsync2: This is a Debian support channel, nothing to do with YouTube. |
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| 22:34.16 | jhutchins | f8e4: He thinks he knows something's happening with YouTube. |
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| 23:22.00 | f8e4 | what pdf viewer is safly disabling any scripts embedded (even js!) |
| 23:23.34 | jhutchins | f8e4: That would be a good research project. Go to the homepage for each project and look. |
| 23:23.50 | jhutchins | f8e4: I don't know how any individual would know the answer without doing that. |
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| 23:24.11 | ratrace | instead, don't trust any of them and confine appropriately |
| 23:24.28 | f8e4 | this stuff is seriously underrated: so many pdf downloaded from wherever noone knows wahts iembedded; |
| 23:24.52 | f8e4 | ratrace how confine |
| 23:25.01 | hendursaga | Use SELinux to disable write and network access? |
| 23:25.04 | f8e4 | best do is: open in chromium native (which should have rensoble defualts) |
| 23:25.11 | sney | afaik a lot of fancy pdf embeds are adobe-only, and if you try to open one in something like okular it'll give you a dialog saying the document has unsupported features |
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| 23:26.24 | sney | there's also the option to convert it to a different format, which would easily scrape off any weirdness, (like opening it in gimp) or extract pages with pdftk |
| 23:27.11 | ratrace | f8e4: selinux, apparmor, or even firejail or similar containers |
| 23:27.11 | f8e4 | the convert option come to mind: but some conveneint pipe in.pdf ... out.pdf with rebuild ensured + bookmarkes_maybe |
| 23:27.19 | mason | Something I quite like from a semi-recent sarnold talk is using AppArmor to prohibit a process from writing to disk or using the network. Think about what a process can do with these two restrictions. |
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| 23:34.55 | mason | Found it: https://youtu.be/PRZ59lxLlOY?t=474 |
| 23:35.12 | f8e4 | i read https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor/HowToUse; how to confine eg atril? where to start? |
| 23:35.31 | f8e4 | 'evince can play embedded video' urgs |
| 23:35.50 | mason | f8e4: watch that video clip |
| 23:36.03 | jhutchins | f8e4: Security like that is not something you should take from an anonymous IRC message. You should know how it works and why you are doing what you do. |
| 23:36.18 | mason | jhutchins: Did you watch the video? |
| 23:36.36 | mason | jhutchins: Do you use an OS that ships AppArmor turned on by default now? :P |
| 23:36.56 | jhutchins | mason: Not into apparmor or selinux. My skills lie elsewhere. |
| 23:37.18 | mason | jhutchins: Then you should watch the video, because it's a tailor-made solution to the issue f8e4 raised. |
| 23:37.23 | jhutchins | mason: No, I don't and I wouldn't. |
| 23:37.34 | mason | jhutchins: You don't use Debian? |
| 23:37.36 | jhutchins | mason: Yes, but I don't have that issue. |
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| 23:38.06 | jhutchins | mason: Yes, since sarge. |
| 23:38.15 | mason | Well, there's the water, horse. Drink or not, as you wish! |
| 23:38.40 | jhutchins | Not my first rodeo. |
| 23:39.13 | mason | It's a new tool for us, it's available now, it's compellingly neat. I can't see not wanting to learn about it, but it's not the end of the world. |
| 23:39.20 | jhutchins | Oh, and my horse is a mare from Secretariat's bloodline. |
| 23:40.07 | f8e4 | jhutchins wat ? |
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| 23:40.22 | f8e4 | mason ok nice; i will try it, aa is enabled by default since buster anyway |
| 23:40.43 | mason | f8e4: That's my thinking. I've never been interested in it, but seeing that specific use case caught my attention. |
| 23:41.53 | jhutchins | I guess since I'm at the end of a long upgrade chain I don't have it enabled. I'm afraid selinux discourages it's use by breaking so many things by default. I know how to make it work, but I prefer other methods. |
| 23:42.10 | f8e4 | tell me tell me |
| 23:42.23 | jhutchins | I've only seen problems with apparmor - which means I don't know how it works when it works. |
| 23:42.32 | ratrace | AA is not really new in Debian, just enabled by default on Buster |
| 23:42.46 | mason | SELinux wants things to be prepared and despite working with it a fair amount, it seems way less straightforward than it ought to be. Analyzing it is painful. |
| 23:42.55 | ratrace | I wrote AA profiles for many public facing programns. It's very valuable tool |
| 23:43.02 | f8e4 | shill jhutchins about this thang called 'blagchainzzz' yooo? |
| 23:43.04 | mason | ratrace: Well. New as in "now you can use it unless you've taken steps to get rid of it". |
| 23:43.27 | ratrace | mason: not sure what that means. you could simply enable it in Stretch |
| 23:43.42 | ratrace | you no longer have to in Buster, as it's enabled by default. |
| 23:43.49 | mason | Right. That's what I just said. |
| 23:44.23 | ratrace | but I must agree with jhutchins, toying with MAC profiles isn't to be taken lightly |
| 23:44.59 | mason | Toying with SELinux is likely to break things. I think AppArmor is a bit less prone to foot-shooting. Maybe I'm wrong about that. |
| 23:45.22 | jhutchins | I see a lot of people with single-user computers defending against risks that you would only have with a large population of uncontrolled users (like college students). |
| 23:45.29 | ratrace | they're equal foot-shooty. SELinux is just more verbose with the policies |
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| 23:45.41 | jhutchins | ratrace: Hah! |
| 23:45.42 | mason | jhutchins: In this case, all you have to do is be unlucky and download the wrong PDF. |
| 23:45.44 | ratrace | jhutchins: though this is not the case here |
| 23:46.01 | ratrace | AA profiles are very valuable even on single use computers |
| 23:46.10 | jhutchins | mason: Yes, and if you're running Adobe on Windows you have a problem. |
| 23:46.31 | ratrace | for example, without an AA profile I wrote for firefox, a rogue website could exploit FF and see if I'm a linux admin with some nifty ssh keys in ~/.ssh |
| 23:46.39 | mason | jhutchins: https://www.securityfocus.com/bid/45678 |
| 23:47.32 | jhutchins | mason: It may not have been apparent, but I DON'T CARE. |
| 23:47.39 | f8e4 | ratrace does https://ipleak.net/ show your os screenres & co? |
| 23:47.45 | mason | jhutchins: No, you clearly take pride in apathy and negativity. |
| 23:47.51 | jhutchins | So I shouldn't be commenting. Dinner's ready, I'm out. |
| 23:47.55 | mason | Enjoy. |
| 23:47.58 | ratrace | f8e4: what? |
| 23:48.28 | f8e4 | Screen information & Plugins information; the info on there is mad |
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| 23:49.09 | mason | I guess for my part I should ignore negative responses as well. Sorry for my part in that. |
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